U.S. charges Snowden with espionage

[jimnyc]

Federal prosecutors have filed a criminal complaint against Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who leaked a trove of documents about top-secret surveillance programs, and the United States has asked Hong Kong to detain him on a provisional arrest warrant, according to U.S. officials.

Snowden was charged with theft, “unauthorized communication of national defense information” and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person,” according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.

The complaint, which initially was sealed, was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered and a district with a long track record of prosecuting cases with national security implications. After The Washington Post reported the charges, senior administration officials said late Friday that the Justice Department was barraged with calls from lawmakers and reporters and decided to unseal the criminal complaint.

A Justice Department spokeswoman declined to comment.

Snowden flew to Hong Kong last month after leaving his job at an NSA facility in Hawaii with a collection of highly classified documents that he acquired while working at the agency as a systems analyst.

The documents, some of which have been published in The Post and Britain’s Guardian newspaper, detailed some of the most-
secret surveillance operations undertaken by the United States and Britain , as well as classified legal memos and court orders underpinning the programs in the United States.

The 30-year-old intelligence analyst revealed himself June 9 as the leaker in an interview with the Guardian and said he went to Hong Kong because it provided the “cultural and legal framework to allow me to work without being immediately detained.”

Snowden subsequently disappeared from public view; it is thought that he is still in the Chinese territory. Hong Kong has its own legislative and legal systems but ultimately answers to Beijing, under the “one country, two systems” arrangement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_print.html

[Voted4Reagan]

He's a Traitor...

Hang him

[WiccanLiberal]

Anybody know if he was required to sign an NDA? If so he has even less ability at a defense.

[logroller]

He's a Traitor...

Hang him
Why even bother with the court system...or reading the OP for that matter.

[jimnyc]

Anybody know if he was required to sign an NDA? If so he has even less ability at a defense.

Without even having insider knowledge, I can guarantee you that he did. Generally speaking, ANY person with any type of security clearance is going to have to be vetted and sign non-disclosures, whether that be the CIA, NSA or a contractor working for either agency.

[jimnyc]

Why even bother with the court system...or reading the OP for that matter.

Snowden sure didn't bother with our justice system...

Nonetheless, I would be thrilled to see him have his day in court, and have due process afforded to him, only he is doing his best to afford the US system and is choosing to use China's legal system instead.

[jimnyc]

Precedent on the espionage act on a similar case of divulging secrets to the "press". Sounds like Snowden better hope for a pardon if he comes back to the States.

Samuel Loring Morison was a government security analyst who worked on the side for Jane's, a British military and defense publisher. He was arrested on October 1, 1984,[72] though investigators never demonstrated any intent to provide information to a hostile intelligence service. Morison told investigators that he sent classified satellite photographs to Jane's because the "public should be aware of what was going on on the other side", meaning that the Soviets' new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier would transform the USSR's military capabilities. He said that "if the American people knew what the Soviets were doing, they would increase the defense budget." British intelligence sources thought his motives were patriotic, but American prosecutors emphasized Morison's personal economic gain and complaints about his government job.[73]

The prosecution of Morison was used as part of a wider campaign against leaks of information as a "test case" for applying the Act to cover the disclosure of information to the press. A March 1984 government report had noted that "the unauthorized publication of classified information is a routine daily occurrence in the U.S." but that the applicability of the Espionage Act to such disclosures "is not entirely clear".[74] Time said that the administration, if it failed to convict Morison, would seek additional legislation and described the ongoing conflict: "The Government does need to protect military secrets, the public does need information to judge defense policies, and the line between the two is surpassingly difficult to draw."[74]

On October 17, 1985, Morison was convicted in Federal Court on two counts of espionage and two counts of theft of government property.[74] He was sentenced to two years in prison on on December 4, 1985.[75] The Supreme Court declined to hear his appeal in 1988.[76] Morison became "the only [American] government official ever convicted for giving classified information to the press" up to that time.[77] Following a 1998 appeal for a pardon on the part of Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, President Bill Clinton pardoned Morison on January 20, 2001, the last day of his presidency,[77] despite the CIA's opposition to the pardon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917#Morison

[jimnyc]

Hell, this guy was jailed for simply possessing documents after he left the NSA:


Kenneth Wayne Ford Jr. was indicted under the Espionage Act 18 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) § 793(e) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/793.html#e) for allegedly having a box of documents in his house after he left NSA employment around 2004. He was sentenced to six years in prison in 2006.

And then this one:


Jeffrey Alexander Sterling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Alexander_Sterling), a former CIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) agent was indicted under the Act in January 2011 for alleged unauthorized disclosure of national defense information to James Risen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Risen), a New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times) reporter, in 2003 regarding his book State of War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Risen#State_of_War). The indictment described his motive as revenge for the CIA's refusal to allow him to publish his memoirs and its refusal to settle his racial discrimination lawsuit against the Agency. Others have described him as telling Risen about a backfired CIA plot against Iran in the 1990s.

For simple sharing with a blogger:


In May 2010, Shamai K. Leibowitz, a translator for the FBI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation), admitted sharing information with a blogger and plead guilty to one count of disclosure of classified information (18 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) § 798(a)(3) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/798.html#a_3)). As part of a plea bargain, he was sentenced to 20 months in prison.

Another case where a contractor released information to the press:


In August 2010, Stephen Jin-Woo Kim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jin-Woo_Kim), a contractor for the State Department (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_State) and a specialist in nuclear proliferation, was indicted under the Act for alleged disclosure of national defense information 18 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) § 793(d) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/793.html#d) in June 2009 to reporter James Rosen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rosen_%28journalist%29) of Fox News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News), related to North Korea's plans to test a nuclear weapon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_testing).
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917#cite_note-90)

All on the previously linked Wiki page.

[aboutime]

Bottom line here. The man has Betrayed the trust of the American people with his disclosures of..classified information...otherwise known as "SECRETS".

Now. Let's play a little game here.

Pretend YOU...the person now reading this. Shared a personal secret with someone you have always trusted.

Now. Pretend a few days have passed, and you overhear someone else you know talking about that SECRET you shared with someone you trusted....WOULD NOT TELL ANYONE ELSE.

Bring us to today. YOU are the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, and someone you paid, signed a contract, and an agreement NEVER TO DISCLOSE the classified information you gave that person access to.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

[logroller]

Bottom line here. The man has Betrayed the trust of the American people with his disclosures of..classified information...otherwise known as "SECRETS".

Now. Let's play a little game here.

Pretend YOU...the person now reading this. Shared a personal secret with someone you have always trusted.

Now. Pretend a few days have passed, and you overhear someone else you know talking about that SECRET you shared with someone you trusted....WOULD NOT TELL ANYONE ELSE.

Bring us to today. YOU are the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, and someone you paid, signed a contract, and an agreement NEVER TO DISCLOSE the classified information you gave that person access to.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?
I'd feel violated.
Lets play a similar game where you tell your neighbor to watch your house and, unbeknownst to you, he decides that watching your house involves tapping your phones and monitoring your Internet activities. Now, imagine your neighbor is actually the United States of America, entrusted to protect and defend the country bound only by the constitution; but since violations of this trust are secret, revealing them criminal, you'll never know. Do you feel less violated--Is ignorance bliss? Or are you ok with all your communications being monitored?

[jimnyc]

I'd feel violated.
Lets play a similar game where you tell your neighbor to watch your house and, unbeknownst to you, he decides that watching your house involves tapping your phones and monitoring your Internet activities. Now, imagine your neighbor is actually the United States of America, entrusted to protect and defend the country bound only by the constitution; but since violations of this trust are secret, revealing them criminal, you'll never know. Do you feel less violated--Is ignorance bliss? Or are you ok with all your communications being monitored?

The actions of the government are very, very hard to excuse and/or accept. Just as having an American citizen stealing from our intelligence agencies and sharing with a foreign press/government is very hard to accept. I hope there would be consequences for anyone that stepped over the line with this NSA crap, and at the VERY least, removal from office or removal by election. I also hope there are going to be consequences from the person who stole and shared national security secrets with a foreign government and newspaper. One doesn't have to choose sides on this, IMO.

[logroller]

The actions of the government are very, very hard to excuse and/or accept. Just as having an American citizen stealing from our intelligence agencies and sharing with a foreign press/government is very hard to accept. I hope there would be consequences for anyone that stepped over the line with this NSA crap, and at the VERY least, removal from office or removal by election. I also hope there are going to be consequences from the person who stole and shared national security secrets with a foreign government and newspaper. One doesn't have to choose sides on this, IMO.
and what about when the person that is removed is the one who reveals the oversteps through proper channels, and we never hear about it and the actions continue? What is to be done?

[revelarts]

He's a Traitor...
Hang him
The actions of the government are very, very hard to excuse and/or accept. Just as having an American citizen stealing from our intelligence agencies and sharing with a foreign press/government is very hard to accept. I hope there would be consequences for anyone that stepped over the line with this NSA crap, and at the VERY least, removal from office or removal by election. I also hope there are going to be consequences from the person who stole and shared national security secrets with a foreign government and newspaper. One doesn't have to choose sides on this, IMO.

the NSA, CIA, FBI, congress, the presidents are traitors.
Hang them

[Gaffer]

He's being called a traitor and other names because he let it be known that the NSA was wire tapping and illegally gathering information on all Americans and most foreign countries. He went to a foreign news organization to release this because he knew it would never get covered by our state run media. I have yet to see anything that endangers anyone other than making the NSA look like they have shit on their face.

[revelarts]

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/80DbxSZ_FB8?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

Man gets charged and threaten with 75 years in Prison for "eavesdropping" IN PUBLIC a PUBLIC OFFICIAL.

how much more, how many counts against the NSA CIA Presidents etc etc .. could be brought? how many time has the almighty law been broken in various States.
the State AGs Should Arrest those involved.
and of course hang them

or at least life in prison.


http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/20/illinois-judge-rejects-eavesdr


<header> Judge Rejects Eavesdropping Charges for Recording Police (http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/20/illinois-judge-rejects-eavesdr) Jacob Sullum (http://reason.com/people/jacob-sullum/all)|<time datetime="2011-09-20T20:17:00+00:00">Sep. 20, 2011 4:17 pm</time>
</header> Michael Allison, an Illinois man who faced a potential sentence of 75 years in prison for recording police officers and attempting to tape his own trial, caught a break last week when a state judge declared (http://www.rcfp.org/newsitems/index.php?i=12153) the charges unconstitutional. "A statute intended to prevent unwarranted intrusions into a citizen’s privacy cannot be used as a shield for public officials who cannot assert a comparable right of privacy in their public duties," wrote Circuit Court Judge David Frankland. "Such action impedes the free flow of information concerning public officials and violates the First Amendment right to gather such information."

[jimnyc]

and what about when the person that is removed is the one who reveals the oversteps through proper channels, and we never hear about it and the actions continue? What is to be done?

We should have people in office representing US. A "good" politician, if one exists, would demand constant oversight on things such as this, and improvements to transparency. We've had the NSA, FBI & CIA for like forever. Would you advocate we shut them down? They each have vital roles for our nations security. They need tools at their disposal, but not to the extent that they would violate constitutional rights of Americans. We can't shut down these agencies as a result, we need them, but we can work to make them better.

[jimnyc]

the NSA, CIA, FBI, congress, the presidents are traitors.
Hang them

Why are you quoting me and then talking about hanging?

At any rate, if criminal action was done on the side of any government official, I would be 100% with having that person or persons facing the consequences too. That would be difficult to prove, with congressional approval. But I'm no attorney. If there were laws broken, they should be held accountable. I never said otherwise.

[aboutime]

I'd feel violated.
Lets play a similar game where you tell your neighbor to watch your house and, unbeknownst to you, he decides that watching your house involves tapping your phones and monitoring your Internet activities. Now, imagine your neighbor is actually the United States of America, entrusted to protect and defend the country bound only by the constitution; but since violations of this trust are secret, revealing them criminal, you'll never know. Do you feel less violated--Is ignorance bliss? Or are you ok with all your communications being monitored?


If whatever you or my neighbor did was ILLEGAL in the eyes of the law...our Constitution. Then You or the Neighbor broke the law, and should be punished.

I speak from personal experience as an NCO in the Navy, responsible for, and contracted by official documents that I signed, and swore I would uphold...as in..NOT DISCLOSING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. Had I done so. I would probably be in jail, and my navy pension would have been terminated. That's what ANYONE GETS for violating the law.
Because you make it another version of the same story..still doesn't make it legal.

Finally. PROVE TO ME, and EVERYONE ELSE...ALL of our communications are being monitored FIRST.

[revelarts]

If whatever you or my neighbor did was ILLEGAL in the eyes of the law...our Constitution. Then You or the Neighbor broke the law, and should be punished.

I speak from personal experience as an NCO in the Navy, responsible for, and contracted by official documents that I signed, and swore I would uphold...as in..NOT DISCLOSING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. Had I done so. I would probably be in jail, and my navy pension would have been terminated. That's what ANYONE GETS for violating the law.
Because you make it another version of the same story..still doesn't make it legal.

Finally. PROVE TO ME, and EVERYONE ELSE...ALL of our communications are being monitored FIRST.

LOL!

You don't want people to break the law and tell you but you want someone to prove to you it's happening!!??

LOL

there have already been about a dozen NSA whistle blowers and others that have testified that it's going on., with various docs, and charts, How much more do you want?

[jimnyc]

He's being called a traitor and other names because he let it be known that the NSA was wire tapping and illegally gathering information on all Americans and most foreign countries. He went to a foreign news organization to release this because he knew it would never get covered by our state run media. I have yet to see anything that endangers anyone other than making the NSA look like they have shit on their face.

I don't think "danger" is a sole requirement for something to be betrayal to his country. I don't think they can make a legal case for treason, but I can easily see what he's been charged with sticking. Regardless of the potency of what he stole, he still stole it. He violated his contract and his oath. For a long time America has been accusing China of being a global threat to cyber security, even as far as to leak stories in the past that China was involved in other hacking activities. The US used this in order to pressure China on various fronts about cyber warfare. Then along comes an American who worked for the CIA and NSA as a contractor, releases specific attacks the US has made against China, to include specific dates and even IP addresses of machines. He also handed over the status of these operations, as to whether they were ongoing or completed.

Yes, this made the intel community and our government look foolish. But it also harmed current relations and gave away locations of targets and other intel information related to those tasks. These are companies that perform espionage for a living, but they're generally pretty good about covering their tracks, especially in the cyber world. But he gave up operational details on the hacking. Someone who works for one of our intelligence agencies should never be going abroad and sharing any of our intelligence, no matter how tiny and harmless it may seem.

[jimnyc]

Also, more about the "harm" of what he released, or potential harm on relations as well:


Famed NSA leaker Edward Snowden almost had me convinced of his sincerity. Until today, when he released damaging information about US spying on Russia’s former president, and offered up no explanation for how such revelations jibe with his earlier claims to be fighting for the American people.

You don’t go and help the Russians if your goal is fighting for the American people, unless you have a darn good reason, and Snowden has so far given none for today’s new leaks.

Now, some would ask, why discuss at all whether Snowden’s motives were genuine? His justification has no bearing on the shocking nature of the information Snowden released, particularly about the NSA’s PRISM program, and about the NSA forcing Verizon to turn over call information about its 121 million customers.

And that’s true. Those revelations stand on their own merits as to whether the NSA, and the Obama administration crossed a line.

....

The Guardian today published a number of new classified leaks that it got from Snowden. They included the news that the US had intercepted then- Russian President Medvedev’s communications during the G20 Summit in London back in 2009. That the British were intercepting communications from foreign delegates to that summit. And that the British were planning to eavesdrop on members of their Commonwealth at an upcoming summit of those nations.

It’s not clear what any of those have to do with Snowden’s earlier justifications for his leaks. They don’t have anything to do with the NSA director lying to Congress. They don’t have anything to do with the President not closing down Gitmo. And they have nothing to do with the dangers the surveillance state pose to the privacy of Americans. They weren’t spying on Americans in today’s stories, they were spying on Russian leaders and diplomats, among others foreign officials. So Snowden’s earlier justifications for the leaks don’t seem to apply. Then why did he do it?

http://americablog.com/2013/06/generation-wikileaks-why-im-losing-faith-in-nsa-leaker-edward-snowden.html

[aboutime]

LOL!

You don't want people to break the law and tell you but you want someone to prove to you it's happening!!??

LOL

there have already been about a dozen NSA whistle blowers and others that have testified that it's going on., with various docs, and charts, How much more do you want?


True rev. However. And you seemed to gloss over this fact...the Whistleblowers are not breaking any laws, or violating any contract with the government in being Whistleblowers. Snowden could have gone that route, under the protections offered by Congress. But..instead. We now see how that is working out.

[revelarts]

I just wish people spent as much energy upset at the gov't as they are nit picking and trying to find every major and minor vice Snowden has. And what twist of law can be applied against him.

can we name any specific persons to hang the wiretapping on. Were are list of congress people that did know? the names of the rubber stamping Fisa judges, the NSA dept heads, times and dates of the start of this, people who over saw it. etc etc.

when is the purge of the records going to start? when are the arrest to be made? what laws are going to changed. whoose going to loose their jobs. etc etc

Where are the calls for charges for lying to congress and the intel committees. hearings? trials?
Where are articles digging into federal state and local laws that have been broken to do the blanket eaves dropping and storage.

all this research and detailed concern over Snowdens, words, motives, history and whereabouts and shoe size , But only mild backhanded concern over the nationwide eavesdropping crime seems seriously bass-akward to me.

[aboutime]

I just wish people spent as much energy upset at the gov't as they are nit picking and trying to find every major and minor vice Snowden has. And what twist of law can be applied against him.

can we name any specific persons to hang the wiretapping on. Were are list of congress people that did know? the names of the rubber stamping Fisa judges, the NSA dept heads, times and dates of the start of this, people who over saw it. etc etc.

when is the purge of the records going to start? when are the arrest to be made? what laws are going to changed. whoose going to loose their jobs. etc etc

Where are the calls for charges for lying to congress and the intel committees. hearings? trials?
Where are articles digging into federal state and local laws that have been broken to do the blanket eaves dropping and storage.

all this research and detailed concern over Snowdens, words, motives, history and whereabouts and shoe size , But only mild backhanded concern over the nationwide eavesdropping crime seems seriously bass-akward to me.


Say whatever you like rev. The good thing I am aware of is. No matter how hard you, or anyone else tries to defend Snowden. The truth cannot be changed...just because you say so.

[Gaffer]

Also, more about the "harm" of what he released, or potential harm on relations as well:



http://americablog.com/2013/06/generation-wikileaks-why-im-losing-faith-in-nsa-leaker-edward-snowden.html

That shines a new light on things. Exposing the NSA's domestic abuses is one thing. Exposing intelligence gathering of enemies is another entirely.

[logroller]

If whatever you or my neighbor did was ILLEGAL in the eyes of the law...our Constitution. Then You or the Neighbor broke the law, and should be punished.

I speak from personal experience as an NCO in the Navy, responsible for, and contracted by official documents that I signed, and swore I would uphold...as in..NOT DISCLOSING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. Had I done so. I would probably be in jail, and my navy pension would have been terminated. That's what ANYONE GETS for violating the law.
Because you make it another version of the same story..still doesn't make it legal.

Finally. PROVE TO ME, and EVERYONE ELSE...ALL of our communications are being monitored FIRST.
In all likelihood that proof is classified and divulging such is an illegal act under the espionage act of 1917. Surely you're not asking me to commit a crime, are you? That's conspiracy-- 18 USC section 371.

What I have provided is information from whistleblowers, criminals in your perspective it seems, that does indict our government in having engaged in a number of surreptitious programs that were described as unfettered and outside the bounds of constitutional government. If that's not proof enough for you, too bad; I'm not going to risk federal prison to satisfy you.

[logroller]

That shines a new light on things. Exposing the NSA's domestic abuses is one thing. Exposing intelligence gathering of enemies is another entirely.
What did he expose, exactly? the fact that we spy on foreign leaders is not breakingnews. Quite frankly, I don't take issue with foreign governments spying on our leaders; i expect that, and vis a vis, I'm guessing so do foreign governments-- so wheres the beef? did snowden reveal an inside source or particular method? That I'd take issue with, but saying that we intercepted it...not exactly secret information. I wouldn't give a shit if they had a bug in the Vatican during the papal conclave.

[Marcus Aurelius]

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/80DbxSZ_FB8?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

Man gets charged and threaten with 75 years in Prison for "eavesdropping" IN PUBLIC a PUBLIC OFFICIAL.

how much more, how many counts against the NSA CIA Presidents etc etc .. could be brought? how many time has the almighty law been broken in various States.
the State AGs Should Arrest those involved.
and of course hang them

or at least life in prison.


http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/20/illinois-judge-rejects-eavesdr


<header> Judge Rejects Eavesdropping Charges for Recording Police (http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/20/illinois-judge-rejects-eavesdr)

Jacob Sullum (http://reason.com/people/jacob-sullum/all)|<time datetime="2011-09-20T20:17:00+00:00">Sep. 20, 2011 4:17 pm</time>
</header> Michael Allison, an Illinois man who faced a potential sentence of 75 years in prison for recording police officers and attempting to tape his own trial, caught a break last week when a state judge declared (http://www.rcfp.org/newsitems/index.php?i=12153) the charges unconstitutional."A statute intended to prevent unwarranted intrusions into a citizen’s privacy cannot be used as a shield for public officials who cannot assert a comparable right of privacy in their public duties," wrote Circuit Court Judge David Frankland. "Such action impedes the free flow of information concerning public officials and violates the First Amendment right to gather such information."



Judge Frankland should be on the SCOTUS.:clap::clap::clap:


EDIT:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-26/news/chi-supreme-court-rejects-plea-to-prohibit-taping-of-police-20121126_1_cook-and-crawford-counties-police-officers-enforcement

The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear an appeal of a controversial Illinois law prohibiting people from recording police officers on the job.
By passing on the issue, the justices left in place a federal appeals court ruling that found that the state's anti-eavesdropping law violates free-speech rights when used against people who audiotape police officers.

A temporary injunction issued after that June ruling effectively bars Cook County State's Attorney Anita Alvarez from prosecuting anyone under the current statute. On Monday, the American Civil Liberties Union, which brought the lawsuit against Alvarez, asked a federal judge hearing the case to make the injunction permanent, said Harvey Grossman, legal director of the ACLU of Illinois.

[jimnyc]

What did he expose, exactly? the fact that we spy on foreign leaders is not breakingnews. Quite frankly, I don't take issue with foreign governments spying on our leaders; i expect that, and vis a vis, I'm guessing so do foreign governments-- so wheres the beef? did snowden reveal an inside source or particular method? That I'd take issue with, but saying that we intercepted it...not exactly secret information. I wouldn't give a shit if they had a bug in the Vatican during the papal conclave.

Specific dates, locations, IP addresses, targets, dates of attacks, ongoing operations or not.... Giving up these dates/times/locations/IP's will help them perform forensic investigation on their end. IMO, not much different than going and giving up satellite information, coordinates and specifically what we are monitoring. That satellite would be useless real quick. We simply don't go around giving up information about our own intelligence gathering, how we gather it and from where. To have a rogue employee off spouting off this information is a national embarrassment.

Yep, we all know these various agencies perform espionage for a living. But none of them have employees going to foreign countries and admitting to said espionage.

And then when he was done stirring up relations between the US and China, hen then moved on to Russia, just prior to an Obama and Putin summit meeting. Telling the Russians that we intercepted their presidents communications won't exactly endear us to them. Then he added in for good measure that the UK was doing so too. It wasn't good enough to implicate his own country, he had to drag in an ally as well. So now he's hurt relations between the US/UK/China & Russia.

He claims he did this to protect "American Democracy". Releasing any of this stuff has NOTHING to do with American Democracy.

[jimnyc]

Remember Snowden claiming just a week or so ago that he wasn't hiding? Claimed he was just in Hong Kong to expose the information and hope that they would be fair to him and all that crap? So much for justice and the truth! If he "had faith in Hong Kong's rule of law" - then why move and hide again in another country? "I am not here to hide from Justice" "I have had many opportunities to flee Hong Kong, but I would rather stay and fight the United States government in the courts, because I have faith in Hong Kong's rule of law," So much for all of that crap that so many fell for.

Hong Kong lets Snowden leave, with Cuba among possible destinationsHONG KONG (Reuters) - A former contractor for the U.S. National Security Agency, charged by the United States with espionage, was allowed to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, his final destination as yet unknown, because a U.S. extradition request did not comply with the law, the Hong Kong government said.

Edward Snowden left for Moscow on Sunday and his final destination may be Cuba, Ecuador, Iceland or Venezuela, according to various reports. The move is bound to infuriate Washington, wherever he ends up.

"It's a shocker," said Simon Young, a law professor with Hong Kong University. "I thought he was going to stay and fight it out. The U.S. government will be irate."

Russia's Interfax news agency quoted a source at the Aeroflot airline as saying there was a ticket in Snowden's name for a Moscow-Cuba flight. Itar-Tass news agency cited a source as saying Snowden would fly from Havana to Caracas, the Venezuelan capital.

The South China Morning Post said his final destination might be Ecuador or Iceland.

A spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin said he was unaware of Snowden's whereabouts or travel plans.

The WikiLeaks anti-secrecy website said it helped Snowden find "political asylum in a democratic country". It did not elaborate, other than to say Snowden was "currently over Russian airspace" with WikiLeaks legal advisers.

The White House had no comment on the WikiLeaks posting.

http://news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contractor-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-080843121.html

[red states rule]

I am watching Fox News and this "hero" is on a jet and will land in Russia within an hour or two. Then he will go on to Cuba. Can you say TRAITOR? It looks like he intends to spill he guts to our enemies

[Noir]

He's sacrificed himself to try and inform the public about what their government is unconstitutionally doing. A most unpleasant situation to be in, indeed so unpleasant that countless others who gave know exactly what was happening, chose to keep themselves safe instead.
The question is, is it worse to be a traitor to the constitution, or a traitor to the government?

[jimnyc]

He's sacrificed himself to try and inform the public about what their government is unconstitutionally doing. A most unpleasant situation to be in, indeed so unpleasant that countless others who gave know exactly what was happening, chose to keep themselves safe instead.
The question is, is it worse to be a traitor to the constitution, or a traitor to the government?

Doesn't matter which was worse. They are both wrong, and I would love to see everyone meet consequences. Personally, by stating I feel he has betrayed his country and should face consequences, in no way absolves the government from the crap they were involved in as far as recording data. I think they should have a full and independent investigation into those activities as well.

[red states rule]

He's sacrificed himself to try and inform the public about what their government is unconstitutionally doing. A most unpleasant situation to be in, indeed so unpleasant that countless others who gave know exactly what was happening, chose to keep themselves safe instead.
The question is, is it worse to be a traitor to the constitution, or a traitor to the government?

Yea, things are so bad in America, Snow has to go to Russia and then perhaps Cuba where human rights are a top priority. Not to mention the right of free speech and overall economic conditions are so much better. Meanwhile, I wonder what Snow's price will be for all the info he knows

[jimnyc]

Here's another example of someone who was a "whistleblower" against the NSA. Instead of just leaking the data to anyone, he stated:


Tice said "there's no way the programs I want to talk to Congress about should be public ever, unless maybe in 200 years they want to declassify them. You should never learn about it; no one at the Times should ever learn about these things. But that same mechanism that allows you to have a program like this at an extremely high, sensitive classification level could also be used to mask illegality, like spying on Americans."

So he followed the "proper" channels:


In a letter dated December 18, 2005, to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Select_Committee_on_Intelligence), the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._House_Permanent_Select_Committee_on_Intellige nce), and to Senator Pat Roberts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Roberts), Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Senate_Select_Committee_on_Intelligence), he said he was prepared to testify about the SAP programs, under the provisions of the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_Community_Whistleblower_Protection_Ac t). It is not known, however, what the testimony would specifically involve


On January 5, 2006, The Washington Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times) reported that Tice wants to testify before Congress about electronic intelligence programs that he asserts were carried out illegally by the NSA and DIA. "I intend to report to Congress probable unlawful and unconstitutional acts conducted while I was an intelligence officer with the National Security Agency and with the Defense Intelligence Agency," Tice stated in letters, dated December 16, 2005 and disclosed by the Times.


On February 14, 2006, UPI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPI) reports Tice testified to the House Government Reform Subcommittee on National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations that the Special Access Program might have violated millions of Americans' Constitutional rights, but that neither the committee members nor the NSA inspector general had clearance to review the program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Tice

Yes, I'm aware that nothing really came out of his testimony. But more to my point, is that he is not in jail or running around the world hiding. It shows that an employee CAN reveal information and go through Congress and committees, and not be jailed for their "whistleblowing". He did the right things, in a legal manner, and wasn't punished for it.

[jimnyc]

Yea, things are so bad in America, Snow has to go to Russia and then perhaps Cuba where human rights are a top priority. Not to mention the right of free speech and overall economic conditions are so much better. Meanwhile, I wonder what Snow's price will be for all the info he knows

Now I'm reading Venezuela. Who knows for now, probably trying to muddy the waters until he gets to his final destination. With any luck, wherever he ends up, hopefully he'll have to hide in a hole like Assange.

[Gaffer]

What did he expose, exactly? the fact that we spy on foreign leaders is not breakingnews. Quite frankly, I don't take issue with foreign governments spying on our leaders; i expect that, and vis a vis, I'm guessing so do foreign governments-- so wheres the beef? did snowden reveal an inside source or particular method? That I'd take issue with, but saying that we intercepted it...not exactly secret information. I wouldn't give a shit if they had a bug in the Vatican during the papal conclave.

He exposed information that could be damaging to relations with the countries he exposed. That information has nothing to do with spying on Americans and illegal activities in the US. So I've change my stance on him. I suspect he's using his additional information to buy himself a safe haven. And I think he took that with him with the full intention of using it as a bribe.

[red states rule]

It is clear the "hero" of the left has a huge yellow streak down the middle of his back and is out know to save his skin. Some hero you libs look up to. I wonder what spin you people will come up with now to defend this coward now

[Noir]

Here's another example of someone who was a "whistleblower" against the NSA. Instead of just leaking the data to anyone, he stated: So he followed the "proper" channels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Tice Yes, I'm aware that nothing really came out of his testimony. But more to my point, is that he is not in jail or running around the world hiding. It shows that an employee CAN reveal information and go through Congress and committees, and not be jailed for their "whistleblowing". He did the right things, in a legal manner, and wasn't punished for it.

And after all that effort to go through the correct channels, he was told 'Thanks for that, but this can't be investigated, go home', glorious.

[Noir]

Doesn't matter which was worse. They are both wrong, and I would love to see everyone meet consequences. Personally, by stating I feel he has betrayed his country and should face consequences, in no way absolves the government from the crap they were involved in as far as recording data. I think they should have a full and independent investigation into those activities as well.

So whether he had spoken out or not he would of been 'in the wrong'. As he has spoken out he will likely face many years in jail. And most of his colleges who were also in the wrong, but chose to ignore it, will be ignored when 'justice' is dealt out.

[red states rule]

Yes Noir, the "hero" of the left has now shown himself to be an f'ing coward and has fled to America's enemies and governments where if you speak out against the polies of the government - your breathing privileges are removed. You must be so proud of him Noir

[aboutime]

Yes Noir, the "hero" of the left has now shown himself to be an f'ing coward and has fled to America's enemies and governments where if you speak out against the polies of the government - your breathing privileges are removed. You must be so proud of him Noir


If he really was such a LIBERAL HERO. Why did he choose to run into known, enemy territory?

OH.....I forgot. Snowden was just doing what he knew Obama would do, after being caught, and running to Las Vagas after Benghazi.

[jimnyc]

So whether he had spoken out or not he would of been 'in the wrong'. As he has spoken out he will likely face many years in jail. And most of his colleges who were also in the wrong, but chose to ignore it, will be ignored when 'justice' is dealt out.

No. Had a reported to the appropriate groups in Congress, he may not have made major changes, or any changes for that fact, but he would have been doing the right thing. He couldn't be faulted for wrongdoing he disapproves of and reported, and he couldn't be faulted for handling it the appropriate way.

[aboutime]

No. Had a reported to the appropriate groups in Congress, he may not have made major changes, or any changes for that fact, but he would have been doing the right thing. He couldn't be faulted for wrongdoing he disapproves of and reported, and he couldn't be faulted for handling it the appropriate way.


Jim. We all know. They don't want to hear such things. It goes against everything they have been brainwashed into believing, for so long.

[WiccanLiberal]

It's interesting that the authorities are pursuing him so avidly. What he has already revealed cannot be unseen. Like the genie, it's very hard to put secrets back in the bottle. So my next question is, what might he know that he hasn't already told? I don't condone people randomly leaking government secrets but I also don't condone our government spying on citizens without due process. I resent the assumption that the government can monitor my phone and internet activity in the name of protecting me.

[bingster]

Bottom line here. The man has Betrayed the trust of the American people with his disclosures of..classified information...otherwise known as "SECRETS".

Now. Let's play a little game here.

Pretend YOU...the person now reading this. Shared a personal secret with someone you have always trusted.

Now. Pretend a few days have passed, and you overhear someone else you know talking about that SECRET you shared with someone you trusted....WOULD NOT TELL ANYONE ELSE.

Bring us to today. YOU are the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, and someone you paid, signed a contract, and an agreement NEVER TO DISCLOSE the classified information you gave that person access to.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

I agree with you! Good job!

[Voted4Reagan]

Welcome back Bingster.... where you been?

[red states rule]

http://www.unitedliberty.org/files/images/nsa-spying.jpg

[revelarts]

In a live chat with Guardian readers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower) Snowden wrote: "This is a predictable smear that I anticipated before going public, as the US media has a kneejerk RED CHINA (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/china)!' reaction to anything involving HK or the PRC, and is intended to distract from the issue of US government misconduct.
"Ask yourself: if I were a Chinese spy, why wouldn't I have flown directly into Beijing? I could be living in a palace petting a phoenix by now."
Pressed again to state clearly whether he had given any information to Beijing, he said: "No. I have had no contact with the Chinese government … I only work with journalists."

Earlier, China's foreign ministry said suggestions he might have acted for Beijing were completely groundless (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-not-chinese-spy-beijing). Spokeswoman Hua Chunying, speaking at a regular press briefing on Monday, also urged the US to "pay attention to the international community's concerns and demands and give … the necessary explanation" of its surveillance (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/surveillance) activities.


Snowden told the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-why) he chose to go there because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent", and he believed it was one of the few places that could resist the US government.
But he also noted: "I think it is really tragic that an American has to move to a place that has a reputation for less freedom. Still, Hong Kong has a reputation for freedom in spite of the People's Republic of China."

According to the latest revelations from top secret documents (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits) uncovered by Snowden and seen by the Guardian, British intelligence agencies intercepted the communications of foreign politicians and officials (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/g20) who took part in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009.



China's state newspaper praises Edward Snowden for 'tearing off Washington's sanctimonious mask'




Link to video: Barack Obama says US will pursue Edward Snowden (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/25/barack-obama-edward-snowden-video) China (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/china)'s top state newspaper has praised the fugitive US spy agency contractor Edward Snowden (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/edward-snowden) for "tearing off Washington's sanctimonious mask" and rejected accusations Beijing had facilitated his departure from Hong Kong (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/us-urges-russia-edward-snowden-pursuit).
The strongly worded front-page commentary in the overseas edition of the People's Daily (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/), the official newspaper of the Chinese Communist party, responded to harsh criticism of China from the US for allowing Snowden to flee.
The Chinese government has said it was gravely concerned by Snowden's allegations that the US had hacked into many networks in Hong Kong and China (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/edward-snowden-us-china), including Tsinghua University, which hosts one of the country's internet hubs, and Chinese mobile network companies. It said it had taken the issue up with Washington.
"Not only did the US authorities not give us an explanation and apology, it instead expressed dissatisfaction at the Hong Kong (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/hong-kong) special administrative region for handling things in accordance with law," wrote Wang Xinjun, a researcher at the Academy of Military Science in the People's Daily commentary.
"In a sense, the United States (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/usa) has gone from a 'model of human rights' to 'an eavesdropper on personal privacy', the 'manipulator' of the centralised power over the international internet, and the mad 'invader' of other countries' networks," the People's Daily said.
The White House said allowing Snowden to leave was "a deliberate choice by the government to release a fugitive despite a valid arrest warrant, and that decision unquestionably has a negative impact on the US-China relationship".
The People's Daily, which reflects the thinking of the government, said China could not accept "this kind of dissatisfaction and opposition".
"The world will remember Edward Snowden," the newspaper said. "It was his fearlessness that tore off Washington's sanctimonious mask".


CHina's response would be funny if it wasn't true.


Russia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/russia)'s foreign minister has said the surveillance whistleblower Edward Snowden (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/edward-snowden) never crossed the border into the country, deepening the mystery over his suspected flight from Hong Kong (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/hong-kong).
Sergei Lavrov was careful not to deny that Snowden had arrived at Moscow's international airpot on Sunday, but insisted that Russia had no involvement with his travel plans.
Snowden's trans-continental attempt to evade capture by US authorities continued to frustrate Washington on Tuesday. The US secretary of state, John Kerry, repeated his call for Moscow to turn Snowden over.
Speaking in Saudi Arabian, Kerry said: "I would simply appeal for calm and reasonableness. We would hope that Russia would not side with someone who is 'a fugitive' from justice.' "
But Lavrov made it clear that Russia did not intend to get involved. "I would like to say right away that we have no relation to either Mr Snowden or to his relationship with American justice or to his movements around the world," Lavrov said.
"He chose his route on his own, and we found out about it, as most here did, from mass media," he said during a joint press conference with Algeria's foreign minister. "He did not cross the Russian border."...




SO China and Russia say they have nothing to do with Snowden. Do we believe them, Heck they lie as much as our on Gov't but in this Case I have no Proof that they are Lying. does anyone here have any proof?

Snowden says he's Not a Spy and he'd be in Beijing in a palace now if he were. and
The comments he's made before about how much money he was making BEFORE etc make me think this guy likes a Dollar. ANd if he wanted to be a spy he make it as profitable and safe for himself as possible. I doubt he'd be talking to newspapers. ANd Often Spies do just come out and admit they are spies if they are ideologically committed. The only ideals he ever speaks of are U.S. civil liberties.

So I, for one, don't by the accusations that he's a "spy" or a "traitor" against the U.S.. Reckless maybe.
But, could some of what he's released be damaging to the U.S. efforts to SPY on our FR-ENEMIES China and Russia? Maybe. But I'm not convinced they didn't already KNOW all of that. I'd guess If we in the U.S. public know the Chinese are hacking the Pentagon files (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpPGkoLbhsU) And other areas Then it doesn't make sense that the Chinese aren't aware of the opposite number.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/77343.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-26/china-hackers-hit-eu-point-man-and-d-c-with-byzantine-candor.html

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/ca062613dBP20130625084528.jpg

[revelarts]

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/sibelappropriate.jpg

[aboutime]

I believe I said it before. So, I will say it again....for the Ignore Feature to work.

Snowden is DEAD MEAT.

If he remains in Russia, under Putin's control.

When the Russians finally get all of the information Snowden claims to have, or presents to them about the U.S.
Putin has already announced he will NOT help, or honor the U.S. requests to send Snowden back to the U.S.
So.Eventually. Snowden will simply disappear. Like other useless people Putin has gotten out of his way.
If anyone needs a link.
Do yourself a favor. Find it yourself because you won't believe me anyhow.