Teacher at Catholic school loses job over ex-husband's actions

[WiccanLiberal]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0615-catholic-teacher-20130615,0,6752429.story?track=lat-pick


SAN DIEGO — A veteran teacher at a Catholic school has lost her job because school officials are worried her ex-husband, now serving a jail sentence for domestic abuse and stalking, will pose a danger to students and teachers when he is released.

This poor woman has been made a victim twice over by an ex-husband who abused her and then by

a bureaucracy that is, to my my mind, afraid of both the abuser and potential lawsuits against them.

Why should she be liable for the actions of a man she has taken steps to remove from her life?

[Noir]

Maddness.

[gabosaurus]

In a normal society, she would have a lot of rights. At a private school, she does not. At least in California, teachers and students in private schools are subject to the whims of those in charge.

[Trigg]

In a normal society, she would have a lot of rights. At a private school, she does not. At least in California, teachers and students in private schools are subject to the whims of those in charge.


You'd think in such a liberal state they wouldn't hold someone else's actions against you.

I hope, for this woman's sake, that she gets an even better job.

[gabosaurus]

You'd think in such a liberal state they wouldn't hold someone else's actions against you.

I hope, for this woman's sake, that she gets an even better job.

If you work in a Catholic school, it probably doesn't matter what state you are in.
I am guessing she will find it easy to find a good teaching job. Experienced teachers are always needed somewhere.

[Voted4Reagan]

Maddness.

Agreed...100% Madness

[Robert A Whit]

In a normal society, she would have a lot of rights. At a private school, she does not. At least in California, teachers and students in private schools are subject to the whims of those in charge.

Her rights are spelled out in her contract.

Parents are so frightened they rallied to support the school.

Sadly, she has to find a new job.

The claim she has no rights is false.

A year by year contract provides security for one year only.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Her rights are spelled out in her contract.

Parents are so frightened they rallied to support the school.

Sadly, she has to find a new job.

The claim she has no rights is false.

A year by year contract provides security for one year only.

why does it not surprise me that you'd agree with punishing her and her children for something beyond their control... (rhetorical)

dumb ass.

[Robert A Whit]

why does it not surprise me that you'd agree with punishing her and her children for something beyond their control... (rhetorical)

dumb ass.

That is not close to what I said.

I feel so sorry for the dumb ass comment made at the very top of this reply.

She needs a contract that lasts longer. She might try to ask the same school if due to the public announcements, she might secretly remain as a teacher. I feel very bad this happened to her and wish the ex-husband stay well clear of her.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=646930#post646930)
why does it not surprise me that you'd agree with punishing her and her children for something beyond their control... (rhetorical)

dumb ass.


That is not close to what I said.

I feel so sorry for the dumb ass comment made at the very top of this reply.

She needs a contract that lasts longer. She might try to ask the same school if due to the public announcements, she might secretly remain as a teacher. I feel very bad this happened to her and wish the ex-husband stay well clear of her.

But...but... I'm on your 'ignore' list!:eek:

Your post implied support for the schools decision.

dumb ass.

[logroller]

But...but... I'm on your 'ignore' list!:eek:

Your post implied support for the schools decision.

dumb ass.
Supporting the school's right to make the decision is not the same as supporting their decision as right.

[fj1200]

In a normal society, she would have a lot of rights.

She has as many as the rest of us; life, liberty, property, and the ones mentioned in those amendment thingies.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Supporting the school's right to make the decision is not the same as supporting their decision as right.


Her rights are spelled out in her contract.
implies the school was right to fire her, since she had no rights to the job for more than the year in the contract.

Parents are so frightened they rallied to support the school.
Shows empathy for the parents of other students, and none for the teacher and her children.

Sadly, she has to find a new job.
Tiny amount of empathy (and personal growth for Robert).

The claim she has no rights is false.
But YOU (Robert) implied she had no rights (regarding her job) other than what was in her contract.

A year by year contract provides security for one year only.
implies the school was right to fire her, since she had no rights to the job for more than the year in the contract.


My comments in red above. You take all that, and it shows a fairly obvious level of support by Robert for the schools decision as correct, based on their contract with the teacher.

[Missileman]

My comments in red above. You take all that, and it shows a fairly obvious level of support by Robert for the schools decision as correct, based on their contract with the teacher.

Agree or disagree, the teacher had no right to a contract renewal and the school had the right to not offer one.

[Robert A Whit]

Supporting the school's right to make the decision is not the same as supporting their decision as right.

Just the way I feel about this teacher losing her job issue.

I am wondering about the parents / children at the school, given the man showed up at the school.

Those wanting her to remain on the payroll and teach ought to be prepared that he shows up and kills many kids and teachers.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=646943#post646943)
My comments in red above. You take all that, and it shows a fairly obvious level of support by Robert for the schools decision as correct, based on their contract with the teacher.


Agree or disagree, the teacher had no right to a contract renewal and the school had the right to not offer one.

Poor use of the forum by Marcus since he decided the issue is not FACT, but Robert. Robert is not the issue.

I admit she signed a legal contract that kept her employed for the past school year.

She should not bring harm to teachers nor kids and her former husband appears to be a menace. The court in fact took legal action against him.

There is no good reason to endanger teachers and children so she has a job.

This however in no way means I blame her. I feel very bad schools do this to teachers.

She worked 14 years and it is my opinion she should have protected herself via a long term contract. Since she blew it, she has to find other work.

But as my tag area says, it is my opinion and I remind all of you that I am not in any way the issue.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Just the way I feel about this teacher losing her job issue.

I am wondering about the parents / children at the school, given the man showed up at the school.

Those wanting her to remain on the payroll and teach ought to be prepared that he shows up and kills many kids and teachers.

further proof Whitless feels their decision was right.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Poor use of the forum by Marcus since he decided the issue is not FACT, but Robert. Robert is not the issue. Robert makes himself the issue, as he always does,.

I admit she signed a legal contract that kept her employed for the past school year.
No shit, not at issue.

She should not bring harm to teachers nor kids and her former husband appears to be a menace. The court in fact took legal action against him. SHE would not be bringing harm, dumb ass.

There is no good reason to endanger teachers and children so she has a job.
And no proof they WOULD be endangered if she kept her job.

This however in no way means I blame her. I feel very bad schools do this to teachers.
You just said She should not bring harm to teachers nor kids', which was blaming her, dumb ass.

She worked 14 years and it is my opinion she should have protected herself via a long term contract. Since she blew it, she has to find other work. They do not offer long term contracts, as you'd know if you read the story.

But as my tag area says, it is my opinion and I remind all of you that I am not in any way the issue.
You're entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled to tell you it's a dumb ass opinion.


comments in red above

[Robert A Whit]

further proof Whitless feels their decision was right.

I am sorry you don't get it.

[Robert A Whit]

Marcus, I won't view your posts using the view system on ignored posters.

You tried to badger me and no others though I agree with them and they with me.

You are a board troll.

I hoped you were worth reading.

I made a terrible error thinking you might grow up.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Marcus, I won't view your posts using the view system on ignored posters.

You tried to badger me and no others though I agree with them and they with me.

You are a board troll.

I hoped you were worth reading.

I made a terrible error thinking you might grow up.

I wasn't aware I had to post replies to every poster in a thread. When did they institute that rule?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I am sorry you don't get it.

apologize to the teacher who will be living in a shelter because of the job loss you approve of.

[logroller]

apologize to the teacher who will be living in a shelter because of the job loss you approve of.
I'm sorry she married trouble that followers her around. Im sure she is too. Not the school's choice though, 'twas hers. Now why should her problems become those of her employer, colleagues and the pupils? Sorry Marcus, like or not, it's the school's decision and they don't exist to keep their employees out of shelters. If this was a retail or office job, I'd say its an overreaction over what appears to be just one incident, but this is a private school for children and the school answers to those who pay tuition with a bare minimum expectation that the school doing everything in it power to keep their kids free from harm, even if its unfair. By all means, send this lady money or help her find another job if you feel so passionate about it.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=646954#post646954)
apologize to the teacher who will be living in a shelter because of the job loss you approve of.


I'm sorry she married trouble that followers her around. Im sure she is too. Not the school's choice though, 'twas hers. Now why should her problems become those of her employer, colleagues and the pupils? Sorry Marcus, like or not, it's the school's decision and they don't exist to keep their employees out of shelters. If this was a retail or office job, I'd say its an overreaction over what appears to be just one incident, but this is a private school for children and the school answers to those who pay tuition with a bare minimum expectation that the school doing everything in it power to keep their kids free from harm, even if its unfair. By all means, send this lady money or help her find another job if you feel so passionate about it.

As I told him, I am not the only poster that puts the lives of the students and teachers above her poor choice in a man. Thanks for adding your comments. For some odd reason, Marcus acts like this is all my fault. I had nothing at all to do with her contract nor her husband nor the ruling by the judge nor the school.

Marcus the Troll acts like this is my fault.

I told him this is not about me. But then he tried to claim it is. Trolls need to go to other places.

[logroller]

As I told him, I am not the only poster that puts the lives of the students and teachers above her poor choice in a man. Thanks for adding your comments. For some odd reason, Marcus acts like this is all my fault. I had nothing at all to do with her contract nor her husband nor the ruling by the judge nor the school.

Marcus the Troll acts like this is my fault.

I told him this is not about me. But then he tried to claim it is. Trolls need to go to other places.
He just disagrees, vehemently. Don't let it frazzle ya. When people feel helplessly threatened they lash out-- that's normal. At least you're not an angry lib like me. I'd prefer dumbass. :thumb:

[Voted4Reagan]

At least you're not an angry lib like me. I'd prefer dumbass. :thumb:

you...you...you.... Misguided Center-Left-Fiscally-Conservative Libertarian you!!:slap::2up::slap:

[tailfins]

Maddness.

What's to stop the ex-husband from showing up at the school after the teacher is fired?

Actually, the school did her a favor. Her pay comes out to: 37000/1500 = $24.67 per hour. That's pretty low with a master's degree. It's even lower if a teacher works over 1500 hours per year.


Carie Charlesworth has a bachelor's degree, a master's degree and a teaching credential, but teaching jobs are scarce in the current economy. After 14 years in diocese schools, including the last four at Holy Trinity, she was earning $37,000 a year.

[tailfins]

As a counterpoint, I saw this in the comments section of the story:



Xristen07 at 1:38 PM June 15, 2013 If this woman's husband has had 20 YEARS OF VIOLENT BEHAVIOR with a proven crinimal record, what does it say about the teacher's judgment----NOT much! AND then to go on to have 4 children with him? There are are many employed neurotics and sociopaths who work among us putting us and our children at SUBSTANTIAL HARM's WAY because of their poor choices. I wholeheartedly agree with management in for this PRIVATE SCHOOL ENTITY. And just because an institution is "regligious" does NOT mean they have to set aside prudence, caution, responsibility, etc in light of the recent events at Sandy Hook.




Empoweredwithlight at 12:34 PM June 15, 2013
As compassionate as I am toward this woman, she made a lot of bad decisions that are now affecting innocent children. Yes, her ex has no right to stalk anyone, but these behaviors do not start overnight. She had MANY warning signs over the years that his behavior is posessive but she did not make healthy choices. Now, her innocent children and others' children are being dragged into her dysfunction.
Having a school on lockdown is very scary and traumatizing for children, and it simply is not fair to them to expose them to this and possible further danger. No child should have to be fearful in their own school. The fact that it is a Catholic school is not relevant.
Lady, this drama is also your fault and you helped create it too. Take responsibility for yourself and stop spreading your trauma/drama to others by trying to make others feel sorry for you. Sympathy will not heal you. Empower yourself with love and spread that strength to your children, not drama and trauma.

[Marcus Aurelius]

As I told him, I am not the only poster that puts the lives of the students and teachers above her poor choice in a man. Thanks for adding your comments. For some odd reason, Marcus acts like this is all my fault. I had nothing at all to do with her contract nor her husband nor the ruling by the judge nor the school.

Marcus the Troll acts like this is my fault.

I told him this is not about me. But then he tried to claim it is. Trolls need to go to other places.

As I told you, I wasn't aware I was required by board rules to reply to every poster in a thread. Still waiting for you to show me that rule someplace.

Never said it was your fault, dumb ass. I said you were entitled to your opinion, and I was entitled to my opinion (which is that your opinion and expression that the school made the right decision, sucks). Live with it and stop complaining that I'm picking on you.

[Robert A Whit]

He just disagrees, vehemently. Don't let it frazzle ya. When people feel helplessly threatened they lash out-- that's normal. At least you're not an angry lib like me. I'd prefer dumbass. :thumb:

Just you say?

There is a huge difference in blaming me vs blaming the school that hired her for this final year. If he is that passionate, he ought to contact the school. Interesting a Liberal defends the man of foul language.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Just you say?

There is a huge difference in blaming me vs blaming the school that hired her for this final year. If he is that passionate, he ought to contact the school. Interesting a Liberal defends the man of foul language.

Please show me a single post where I said it was your FAULT, dumb ass. Stop whining and feeling all put upon, discuss the topic.

To paraphrase Logroller, 'Saying someone shows support for something, and blaming them for it, are two different things'.

[tailfins]

He just disagrees, vehemently. Don't let it frazzle ya. When people feel helplessly threatened they lash out-- that's normal. At least you're not an angry lib like me. I'd prefer dumbass. :thumb:

Being a "veteran" of several toxic environments, I see you have not yet tried deflection. Lesson 1 is not to directly reply to toxic comments. Just post on the topic in the original post. Making it obvious that something is not worthy of a reply by not acknowledging it speaks volumes.

[Robert A Whit]

Being a "veteran" of several toxic environments, I see you have not yet tried deflection. Lesson 1 is not to directly reply to toxic comments. Just post on the topic in the original post. Making it obvious that something is not worthy of a reply by not acknowledging it speaks volumes.

Some posters abandon the topic to engage angry outbursts at posters. But I plan to try your system.

[Robert A Whit]

Please show me a single post where I said it was your FAULT, dumb ass. Stop whining and feeling all put upon, discuss the topic.

To paraphrase Logroller, 'Saying someone shows support for something, and blaming them for it, are two different things'.

The topic has been the contract yet in your world, it was only about me.

Stop deflecting to making posts about me. Problem solved.

I support contracts entered into legally. What is wrong with that?

[Marcus Aurelius]

The topic has been the contract yet in your world, it was only about me.

Stop deflecting to making posts about me. Problem solved.

I support contracts entered into legally. What is wrong with that?

Really? The topic is the contract?

Funny, I thought this was the thread title...

Teacher at Catholic school loses job over ex-husband's actions (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?41411-Teacher-at-Catholic-school-loses-job-over-ex-husband-s-actions)
Did I get that wrong?

The topic was the fact she got fired for something that she had no control over. You've consistently expressed support for that firing as the correct decision, and I called you out on it. This is a DISCUSSION BOARD. Perhaps you shouldn't be here if you're afraid to discuss things.

[Robert A Whit]

Really? The topic is the contract?

Funny, I thought this was the thread title...

Teacher at Catholic school loses job over ex-husband's actions (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?41411-Teacher-at-Catholic-school-loses-job-over-ex-husband-s-actions)


Did I get that wrong?

The topic was the fact she got fired for something that she had no control over. You've consistently expressed support for that firing as the correct decision, and I called you out on it. This is a DISCUSSION BOARD. Perhaps you shouldn't be here if you're afraid to discuss things.

She was not fired. She simply was not offered another contract.

Again, I am not the topic, no matter how you keep trying to deflect it to be. The topic I assure you is not me. You claim you called me out?

LMAO

But though logroller and I agree, you chose just me?

[Marcus Aurelius]

She was not fired. She simply was not offered another contract.

Again, I am not the topic, no matter how you keep trying to deflect it to be. The topic I assure you is not me. You claim you called me out?

LMAO

But though logroller and I agree, you chose just me?

Same thing. She was working for them, they refused to renew her contract, now she no longer works for them. Fired.

Yes, I called you out over your support for the schools decision as correct, and you've been whining like a little girl ever since. Considering you claim to have me on ignore, I find that fascinating.

[logroller]

Being a "veteran" of several toxic environments, I see you have not yet tried deflection. Lesson 1 is not to directly reply to toxic comments. Just post on the topic in the original post. Making it obvious that something is not worthy of a reply by not acknowledging it speaks volumes.
Irony speaks volumes as well.

[logroller]

Same thing. She was working for them, they refused to renew her contract, now she no longer works for them. Fired.

Yes, I called you out over your support for the schools decision as correct, and you've been whining like a little girl ever since. Considering you claim to have me on ignore, I find that fascinating.
Not being rehired is not be same thing as being fired. There must be cause to fire someone; just not hiring them requires none.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Not being rehired is not be same thing as being fired. There must be cause to fire someone; just not hiring them requires none.

Technically, this is not always the case. At Will employment means you can be fired if the boss doesn't like your haircut, the shoes you wear, or your performance on the job. Doesn't make it 'right', but it is what it is.

[Robert A Whit]

Same thing. She was working for them, they refused to renew her contract, now she no longer works for them. Fired.

Yes, I called you out over your support for the schools decision as correct, and you've been whining like a little girl ever since. Considering you claim to have me on ignore, I find that fascinating.

Nope. as others agree, the contract is being completed per it's terms. When it ends, they do not renew it. It is not like being fired. It is more like you hire a mechanic to fix your car and he does it so you don't keep paying him.

I have nothing at all to do with the school ergo your resentment that I believe in contracts where you appear to not agree with them is your problem, not mine. I do have you on ignore. It you notice, a feature of ignore is one can reply but keep said party on ignore. Again, no matter what yo9u say, this is not about me. Any whining is by you over the contract the teacher and school fulfilled or are fulfilling as the case may be.

If you stop whining about her, this will be over. As hot under the collar as you are, why not contact her school?

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=647025#post647025)
Same thing. She was working for them, they refused to renew her contract, now she no longer works for them. Fired.

Yes, I called you out over your support for the schools decision as correct, and you've been whining like a little girl ever since. Considering you claim to have me on ignore, I find that fascinating.


Not being rehired is not be same thing as being fired. There must be cause to fire someone; just not hiring them requires none.

Exactly as you say. It is not up to me or others to support the legal contract she and the school agreed to. It is that I do not support violating terms of contracts.

[Missileman]

Irony speaks volumes as well.

There are more than a few around here deaf to it though.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Nope. as others agree, the contract is being completed per it's terms. When it ends, they do not renew it. It is not like being fired. It is more like you hire a mechanic to fix your car and he does it so you don't keep paying him.

I have nothing at all to do with the school ergo your resentment that I believe in contracts where you appear to not agree with them is your problem, not mine. I do have you on ignore. It you notice, a feature of ignore is one can reply but keep said party on ignore. Again, no matter what yo9u say, this is not about me. Any whining is by you over the contract the teacher and school fulfilled or are fulfilling as the case may be.

If you stop whining about her, this will be over. As hot under the collar as you are, why not contact her school?

that is possibly the most retarded analogy I have ever heard. It is nothing like that.

kind of stupid to have someone on ignore, yet continually reply directly to their posts, dumb ass.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Here's a copy of the letter the school sent her.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1371603.1371141055!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/fired14n-1-web.jpg


This is why many domestic abuse victims fail to come forward... because they are afraid shit like this will happen.

[Robert A Whit]

That letter really buttoned it up.

The school put the safety of the kids and teachers at number one priority.

Though at a distance, I feel bad for her.

But she gets paid June, July and into August. And she was able to be paid and not teach.

The school did the right thing.

Yes, I support child safety.

This is a huge state. She has to stay clear of that ex husband.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Supporting the school's right to make the decision is not the same as supporting their decision as right.


...The school did the right thing...

You were saying, Log?

[Marcus Aurelius]

That letter really buttoned it up.

The school put the safety of the kids and teachers at number one priority.

Though at a distance, I feel bad for her.

But she gets paid June, July and into August. And she was able to be paid and not teach.

The school did the right thing.

Yes, I support child safety.

This is a huge state. She has to stay clear of that ex husband.

the lack of support you show for a domestic abuse victim is staggering.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Robert A Whit http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=647093#post647093)
That letter really buttoned it up.

The school put the safety of the kids and teachers at number one priority.

Though at a distance, I feel bad for her.

But she gets paid June, July and into August. And she was able to be paid and not teach.

The school did the right thing.

Yes, I support child safety.

This is a huge state. She has to stay clear of that ex husband.


the lack of support you show for a domestic abuse victim is staggering.

What you actually mean is you do not support the written contract and that I do support those documents.

I also fully back the teacher. I would be upset if the school did not uphold her contract.

It is a rotten shame you still don't understand me.

Look at it this way, you may claim you support her but your only act is on this forum when you should contact that school to tell them you are furious.