Classic: States debate taxing green cars to recover lost gas tax revenue

[red states rule]

More proof that when you do what liberals tell you do - you end up getting f'd over for doing it

From the nations more blue states





So, the government interferes in the market by incentivizing its citizens to buy hybrid and electric with big ol’ tax credits. It’ll be great for consumers and the environment, they say! You’ll save money and the air, it will be sweet with good intentions. But then people actually bought those electric and hybrid cars, car manufacturers responded to government mandates and consumer pushes for increased gas mileage, and the economy and gas prices dictated that a bunch of people start watching how much they drive. And, now you’ve got a revenue problem, what with far less money coming in the form of gas taxes.


What’s a state government to do? Well, certainly not remove its grimy hands from the mix for half a second to see what the natural state of the market might bring. Certainly not start making rational decisions about how to use this declining revenue as efficiently as possible. Certainly not stop raiding infrastructure funds for whatever they damn well please before coming to citizens for more taxes (Hi, Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley). No, no, no, now they gotta tax those green cars that they got you to buy with those tax incentives in the first place! Sorry, suckahs! Shoulda known any deal with the devil was bound to burn up: (http://www.autonews.com/article/20130609/OEM05/130609879/states-debate-taxing-green-cars-to-recover-lost-gas-taxes#axzz2W8abRtnk)

SAN FRANCISCO (Bloomberg) — Hybrid and electric cars are sparing the environment. Critics say they’re hurting the roads.
The popularity of these fuel-efficient vehicles is being blamed for a drop in gasoline taxes that pay for local highway and bridge maintenance, with three states enacting rules to make up the losses with added fees on the cars and at least five others weighing similar legislation.


“The intent is that people who use the roads pay for them,” said Arizona state Senator Steve Farley, a Democrat from Tucson who wrote a bill to tax electric cars. “Just because we have somebody who is getting out of doing it because they have an alternative form of fuel, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t pay for the roads.”
I’m somewhat sympathetic to the notion that, because gas taxes pay for roads, it’s unfair for those who aren’t buying gas to get what critics call a literal free ride. This problem is more pronounced with bike riders who argue for reconfiguration of entire cities’ roads without throwing a whole bunch in the pot. But the larger point is how elaborately stupid, counterproductive, and at odds with itself idiotic governments become in using our money to push for one policy with subsidized products, only to turn around and complain that all those subsidies are costing them money. Um, yes, that’s what we were saying years ago when you started subsidizing these cars with thousands of our dollars and lecturing us about how awesome it was going to be. STEP AWAY FROM THE RUBE GOLDBERG MACHINES IN YOUR MINDS. YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING.


Here’s what the tax structure looks like at the moment in states trying this. The prices are low-ish now, but please don’t be silly enough to think they’re not going up:

In Washington state, electric-car owners this year began paying a $100 annual fee. Virginia in April approved a $64 annual fee on hybrid and electric cars.


In New Jersey, Senator Jim Whelan, a Democrat from Atlantic City, has proposed a $50 annual fee on electric and compressed natural-gas cars that would be deposited into a state fund for road and bridge maintenance…


In Arizona, Farley’s measure, which has stalled, would impose a tax on electric cars of 1 cent per mile driven on the state’s highways, amounting to about $120 annually per car, he said. Texas lawmakers considered a similar bill this year.


In Indiana, lawmakers created a committee to study a local road impact fee on electric and hybrid cars to be paid at registration.


North Carolina’s Senate on May 23 approved a budget plan that includes a $100 fee for electric cars and $50 for hybrid cars, said Amy Auth, deputy chief of staff for Phil Berger, Senate president pro tempore. The plan has gone to the House for review, she said.

I look forward to the taxing of non-smokers to make up for all that lost tobacco tax revenue, too.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/13/classic-states-debate-taxing-green-cars-to-recover-lost-gas-tax-revenue/

[Voted4Reagan]

More Fail.... From GM and The Chevy Volt.

[red states rule]

More proof that even when you do what liberals tell you to do - they will punish you for it.

[aboutime]

More Fail.... From GM and The Chevy Volt.


Isn't this idea kinda like Taxing yourself for being successful. Then punishing yourself with another Tax???

Sounds like an Obama plan to me.

[logroller]

What's the problem with paying for roads that one uses?

[red states rule]

What's the problem with paying for roads that one uses?

The amount of money taxpayers are soaked to "pay for roads" the roads should be paved in 24K gold

But I am not surprised a liberal like yourself would not pass up a chance to soak the already overtaxed taxpayers for more money to feed the bloated pig known as government

BTW I thought that trillion dollar stimulus of Obama's was to go to "repair our crumbling roads and bridges". What happened to that money LR?

[logroller]

The amount of money taxpayers are soaked to "pay for roads" the roads should be paved in 24K gold
How much is that, exactly?

But I am not surprised a liberal like yourself would not pass up a chance to soak the already overtaxed taxpayers for more money to feed the bloated pig known as government
actually the gas taxes don't cover anywhere near the cost of buolidng and maintaining our nation's roads. And the US pays less gas tax than every other country save Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
When's the last time you personally paved a road? Let's just say you use 30 gallons a week: that's about 1500 gal/year- even at Cali's tax rate that's $900 annually. For that you could get about 80 lane- ft of Medium duty road-- Or roughly four car lengths. You want a freeway? Low-end, that's $25 lane-ft and you'd be getting about 36 feet of road and that doesn't include land costs, tear-off, traffic control...let alone routine maintenance or other operating costs... In some urbanized areas, where rights of way, lane closures and restricted times for construction add to the cost, it can be as much as $70 million per lane-mile. In such a case your $900 dollars would get you a little over a square foot. Bridges? Forget about it.
In 2007 the public sector spent $146 billion to build, maintain and operate the nation's roadways-- three-quarters of that was funded by state and local governments. (Link (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12043/01-19-highwayspending_brief.pdf)) if the 200 million cars here drive 15,000 miles/year at 25 mpg and paid th nationwide avg gas tax of $.49/gal :: that's about $59B-- a little over a third if the cost. That's doesn't include diesel taxes, which are higher, nor does it include tolls, but even with that the use taxes cover only around half of the cost of the roadways.


BTW I thought that trillion dollar stimulus of Obama's was to go to "repair our crumbling roads and bridges". What happened to that money LR?

http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/Tiger_I_Awards.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/TIGER_CAPITAL_GRANTS_2010.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/TIGER_2011_AWARD.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/tiger/2012-tiger-awards

[aboutime]

How much is that, exactly?

actually the gas taxes don't cover anywhere near the cost of buolidng and maintaining our nation's roads. And the US pays less gas tax than every other country save Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
When's the last time you personally paved a road? Let's just say you use 30 gallons a week: that's about 1500 gal/year- even at Cali's tax rate that's $900 annually. For that you could get about 80 lane- ft of Medium duty road-- Or roughly four car lengths. You want a freeway? Low-end, that's $25 lane-ft and you'd be getting about 36 feet of road and that doesn't include land costs, tear-off, traffic control...let alone routine maintenance or other operating costs... In some urbanized areas, where rights of way, lane closures and restricted times for construction add to the cost, it can be as much as $70 million per lane-mile. In such a case your $900 dollars would get you a little over a square foot. Bridges? Forget about it.
In 2007 the public sector spent $146 billion to build, maintain and operate the nation's roadways-- three-quarters of that was funded by state and local governments. (Link (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12043/01-19-highwayspending_brief.pdf)) if the 200 million cars here drive 15,000 miles/year at 25 mpg and paid th nationwide avg gas tax of $.49/gal :: that's about $59B-- a little over a third if the cost. That's doesn't include diesel taxes, which are higher, nor does it include tolls, but even with that the use taxes cover only around half of the cost of the roadways.



http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/Tiger_I_Awards.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/TIGER_CAPITAL_GRANTS_2010.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/TIGER_2011_AWARD.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/tiger/2012-tiger-awards


Logroller. That's funny stuff. Funny because it is obvious. You actually do believe what you are saying. And if someone presented the real facts to you at this point. You'd simply use the Liberal technique of name calling, and accusations to soothe your mind.

[logroller]

Logroller. That's funny stuff. Funny because it is obvious. You actually do believe what you are saying. And if someone presented the real facts to you at this point. You'd simply use the Liberal technique of name calling, and accusations to soothe your mind. i can back up all those assertions with facts and data; and unlike you I provided data; furthermore I use reasoned analysis to expound upon that data. You troll with the such a pitiful use of language I'm surprised spam filters don't flag your posts. I'm feelin generous though, so I'll throw you a fact that you can use to imply excessive overspending. There's around 3million miles of public paved roads in the US, and using the $150B cost number from 2007, what's the average per mile cost? Now mr fact man, what's the breakdown of that: fed/state/local roads? What goes into that cost at each level? How is funding justified and allocated? Maybe pick just one project from one of the tiger files I posted, lookup the cost breakdown and get back to me. Then we'll see if I dodge the "real facts".

[aboutime]

i can back up all those assertions with facts and data; and unlike you I provided data; furthermore I use reasoned analysis to expound upon that data. You troll with the such a pitiful use of language I'm surprised spam filters don't flag your posts. I'm feelin generous though, so I'll throw you a fact that you can use to imply excessive overspending. There's around 3million miles of public paved roads in the US, and using the $150B cost number from 2007, what's the average per mile cost? Now mr fact man, what's the breakdown of that: fed/state/local roads? What goes into that cost at each level? How is funding justified and allocated? Maybe pick just one project from one of the tiger files I posted, lookup the cost breakdown and get back to me. Then we'll see if I dodge the "real facts".



Get to work. I'm feelin' generous too! Just for you. 5184

[red states rule]

How much is that, exactly?

actually the gas taxes don't cover anywhere near the cost of buolidng and maintaining our nation's roads. And the US pays less gas tax than every other country save Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
When's the last time you personally paved a road? Let's just say you use 30 gallons a week: that's about 1500 gal/year- even at Cali's tax rate that's $900 annually. For that you could get about 80 lane- ft of Medium duty road-- Or roughly four car lengths. You want a freeway? Low-end, that's $25 lane-ft and you'd be getting about 36 feet of road and that doesn't include land costs, tear-off, traffic control...let alone routine maintenance or other operating costs... In some urbanized areas, where rights of way, lane closures and restricted times for construction add to the cost, it can be as much as $70 million per lane-mile. In such a case your $900 dollars would get you a little over a square foot. Bridges? Forget about it.
In 2007 the public sector spent $146 billion to build, maintain and operate the nation's roadways-- three-quarters of that was funded by state and local governments. (Link (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12043/01-19-highwayspending_brief.pdf)) if the 200 million cars here drive 15,000 miles/year at 25 mpg and paid th nationwide avg gas tax of $.49/gal :: that's about $59B-- a little over a third if the cost. That's doesn't include diesel taxes, which are higher, nor does it include tolls, but even with that the use taxes cover only around half of the cost of the roadways.



http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/Tiger_I_Awards.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/TIGER_CAPITAL_GRANTS_2010.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/TIGER_2011_AWARD.pdf
http://www.dot.gov/tiger/2012-tiger-awards

LR you are amazing. You rant how you are not a liberal but you never miss a chance to support jacking up taxes on the producers so government can have more money to piss through

The main issue is that many states (including here in MD) is that the state government does NOT use gas tax revenue for the roads. O'Malley has raided the transportation trust fund to finance his handouts for the "poor"

I see where you tried to defend Obama's stimulus but you left out a few items





The 102 worst ways the government is spending your tax dollars:
102: Protecting a Michigan insect collection from other insects ($187,632)
101: Highway beautified by fish art in Washington ($10,000)
100: University studying hookup behavior of female college coeds in New York ($219,000)
99: Police department getting 92 blackberries for supervisors in Rhode Island ($95,000)
98: Upgrades to seldom-used river cruise boat in Oklahoma ($1.8 million)
97: Precast concrete toilet buildings for Mark Twain National Forest in Montana ($462,000)
96: University studying whether mice become disoriented when they consume alcohol in Florida ($8,408)
95: Foreign bus wheel polishers for California ($259,000)
94: Recovering crab pots lost at sea in Oregon ($700,000)
93: Developing a program to develop "machine-generated humor" in Illinois ($712,883)
92: Colorado museum where stimulus was signed (and already has $90 million in the bank) gets geothermal stimulus grant ($2.6 million)
91: Grant to the Maine Indian Basketmakers Alliance to support the traditional arts apprenticeship program, gathering and festival ($30,000)
90: Studying methamphetamines and the female rat sex drive in Maryland ($30,000)
89: Studying mating decisions of cactus bugs in Florida ($325,394)
88: Studying why deleting a gene can create sex reversal in people, but not in mice in Minnesota ($190,000)
87: College hires director for a project on genetic control of sensory hair cell membrane channels in zebrafish in California ($327,337)
86: New jumbo recycling bins with microchips embedded inside to track participation in Ohio ($500,000)
85: Oregon Federal Building's "green" renovation at nearly the price of a brand new building ($133 million)
84: Massachusetts middle school getting money to build a solar array on its roof ($150,000)
83: Road widening that could have been millions of dollars cheaper if Lousiana hadn't opted to replace a bridge that may not have needed replacing ($60 million)
82: Cleanup effort of a Washington nuclear waste site that already got $12 billion from the DOE ($1.9 billion)
81: Six woodlands water taxis getting a new home in Texas ($750,000)
80: Maryland group gets money to develop "real life" stories that underscore job and infrastructure-related research findings ($363,760)
79: Studying social networks like Facebook in North Carolina ($498,000)
78:18 North Carolina teacher coaches to heighten math and reading performance ($4.4 million)
77: Retrofitting light switches with motion sensors for one company in Arizona ($800,000)
76: Removing graffiti along 100 miles of flood-control ditches in California ($837,000)
75: Bicycle lanes, shared lane signs and bike racks in Pennsylvania ($105,000)
74: Privately-owned steakhouse rehabilitating its restaurant space in Missouri ($75,000)
73: National dinner cruise boat company in Illinois outfitting vessels with surveillance systems to protect against terrorists ($1 million)
72: Producing and transporting peanuts and peanut butter in North Carolina ($900,000)
71: Refurnishing and delivering picnic tables in Iowa ($30,000)
70: Digital television converter box coupon program in D.C. ($650 million)
69: Elevating and relocating 3,000 feet of track for the Napa Valley Wine Train in California ($54 million)
68: Hosting events for Earth Day, the summer solstice etc. in Minnesota ($50,000)
67: Expanding ocean aquaculture in Hawaii ($99,960)
66: Raising railroad tracks 18 inches in Oregon because the residents of one small town were tired of taking a detour around them ($4.2 million)
65: Professors and employees of Iowa state universities voluntarily taking early retirement ($43 million)
64: Minnesota theatre named after Che Guevara putting on "socially conscious" puppet shows ($25,000)
63: Replacing a basketball court lighting system with a more energy efficient one in Arizona ($20,000)
62: Repainting and adding a security camera to one bridge in Oregon ($3.5 million)
61: Missouri bridge project that already was full-funded with state money ($8 million)
60: New hospital parking garage in New York that will employ less people ($19.5 million)
59: University in North Carolina studying why adults with ADHD smoke more ($400,000)
58: Low-income housing residents in one Minnesota city receiving free laptops, WiFi and iPod Touches to "educate" them in technology ($5 million)
57: University in California sending students to Africa to study why Africans vote they the way they do in their elections ($200,000)
56: Researching the impact of air pollution combined with a high-fat diet on obesity development in Ohio ($225,000)
55: Studying how male and female birds care for their offspring and how it compares to how humans care for their children in Oklahoma ($90,000)
54: University in Pennsylvania researching fossils in Argentina (over $1 million)
53: University in Tennessee studying how black holes form (over $1 million)
52: University in Oklahoma sending 3 researchers to Alaska to study grandparents and how they pass on knowledge to younger generations ($1.5 million)
51: Grant application from a Pennsylvania university for a researcher named in the Climate-gate scandal (Rep. Darrell Issa is calling on the president to freeze the grant) ($500,000)
50: Studying the impact of global warming on wildflowers in a Colorado ghost town ($500,000)
49: Bridge built over railroad crossing so 168 Nebraska town residents don't have to wait for the trains to pass ($7 million)
48: Renovating an old hotel into a visitors center in Kentucky ($300,000)
47: Removing overgrown weeds in a Rhode Island park ($250,000)
46: Renovating 5 seldom-used ports of entry on the U.S.-Canada border in Montana ($77 million)
45: Testing how to control private home appliances in Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts from an off-site computer ($800,000)
44: Repainting a rarely-used bridge in North Carolina ($3.1 million)
43: Renovating a desolate Wisconsin bridge that averages 10 cars a day ($426,000)
42: 4 new buses for New Hampshire ($2 million)
41: Repaving a 1-mile stretch of Atlanta road that had parts of it already repaved in 2007 ($490,000)
40: Florida beauty school tuition ($2.3 million)
39: Extending a bike path to the Minnesota Twins stadium ($500,000)
38: Beautification of Los Angeles' Sunset Boulevard ($1.1 million)
37: Colorado Dragon Boat Festival ($10,000)
36: Developing the next generation of supersonic corporate jets in Maryland that could cost $80 million dollars each ($4.7 million)
35: New spring training facilities for the Arizona Diamondbacks and Colorado Rockies ($30 million)
34: Demolishing 35 old laboratories in New Mexico ($212 million)
33: Putting free WiFi, Internet kiosks and interactive history lessons in 2 Texas rest stops ($13.8 million)
32: Replacing a single boat motor on a government boat in D.C. ($10,500)
31: Developing the next generation of football gloves in Pennsylvania ($150,000)
30: Pedestrian bridge to nowhere in West Virginia ($80,000)
29: Replacing all signage on 5 miles of road in Rhode Island ($4,403,205)
28: Installing a geothermal energy system to heat the "incredible shrinking mall" in Tennessee ($5 million)
27: University in Minnesota studying how to get the homeless to stop smoking ($230,000)
26: Large woody habitat rehabilitation project in Wisconsin ($16,800)
25: Replacing escalators in the parking garage of one D.C. metro station ($4.3 million)
24: Building an airstrip in a community most Alaskans have never even heard of ($14,707,949)
23: Bike and pedestrian paths connecting Camden, N.J. to Philadelphia, Penn. when there's already a bridge that connects them ($23 million)
22: Sending 10 university undergrads each year from North Carolina to Costa Rica to study the rainforests ($564,000)
21: Road signs touting stimulus funds at work in Ohio ($1 million)
20: Researching how paying attention improves performance of difficult tasks in Connecticut ($850,000)
19: Kentucky Transportation Department awarding contracts to companies associated with a road contractor accused of bribing the previous state transportation secretary ($24 million)
18: Amtrak losing $32 per passenger nationally but rewarded with windfall ($1.3 billion)
17: Widening an Arizona interstate even though the company that won the contract has a history of tax fraud and pollution ($21.8 million)
16: Replace existing dumbwaiters in New York ($351,807)
15: Deer underpass in Wyoming ($1,239,693)
14: Arizona universities examining the division of labor in ant colonies (combined $950,000)
13: Fire station without firefighters in Nevada ($2 million)
12: "Clown" theatrical production in Pennsylvania ($25,000)
11: Maryland town gets money but doesn't know what to do with it ($25,000)
10: Investing in nation-wide wind power (but majority of money has gone to foreign companies) ($2 billion)
9: Resurfacing a tennis court in Montana ($50,000)
8: University in Indiana studying why young men do not like to wear condoms ($221,355)
7: Funds for Massachusetts roadway construction to companies that have defrauded taxpayers, polluted the environment and have paid tens of thousands of dollars in fines for violating workplace safety laws (millions)
6: Sending 11 students and 4 teachers from an Arkansas university to the U.N. climate change convention in Copenhagen, using almost 54,000 lbs of carbon dioxide from air travel alone ($50,000)
5: Storytelling festival in Utah ($15,000)
4: Door mats to the Department of the Army in Texas ($14,675)
3: University in New York researching young adults who drink malt liquor and smoke pot ($389,357)
2: Solar panels for climbing gym in Colorado ($157,800)
1: Grant for one Massachusetts university for "robobees" (miniature flying robot bees) ($2 million)
GRAND TOTAL: $4,891,645,229



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/blog/2010/03/12/waste-102-the-final-list/#ixzz2XGCSP5AQ




But I do find it touching your fellow lib FU also suppoorts your call to raise taxes on the wokring folks so government will not have to trim the blubber and bloated spending programs

[fj1200]

But I do find it touching your fellow lib FU also suppoorts your call to raise taxes on the wokring folks so government will not have to trim the blubber and bloated spending programs

:facepalm99: Link please.

I forget myself. Little girls are able to discuss better than you.

[Thunderknuckles]

I agree with Logroller on this point: we all must pay something in taxes/fees for road maintenance and expansion.
However, in California, that fund is like a general slush fund and is continually raided for other purposes. We taxpayers are not getting a good return on investment and are rightfully pissed anytime they think about raising the fees/taxes.

As for Jersey, I am curious to see how these proposed fees/taxes for "green" vehicles compare to those for the standard earth slaughtering combustion vehicles. Are "green" drivers going to get the shaft or will it be commensurate with the globe killers?

[red states rule]

I agree with Logroller on this point: we all must pay something in taxes/fees for road maintenance and expansion.
However, in California, that fund is like a general slush fund and is continually raided for other purposes. We taxpayers are not getting a good return on investment and are rightfully pissed anytime they think about raising the fees/taxes.

As for Jersey, I am curious to see how these proposed fees/taxes for "green" vehicles compare to those for the standard earth slaughtering combustion vehicles. Are "green" drivers going to get the shaft or will it be commensurate with the globe killers?


We ARE paying but Dems are using the money for other purposes and then wanting MORE money from us

Well, lets see how things in MD are going. Pretty much like in most states where Dems want to piss through the money for roads and jack taxes up on the serfs tending the fields







Md gas tax supporters also raided $868 million in transportation funds

Ninety-six percent of members of the Maryland House of Delegates, who voted for Governor Martin O’Malley’s 87 percent gas tax hike (http://watchdogwire.com/maryland/2013/03/22/omalley-transportation-plan-means-87-percent-tax-increase-at-the-pump/), also approved hundreds of millions in un-repaid Highway User Fund raids over the last several years.


An analysis of roll call votes (see spreadsheet (http://www.scribd.com/doc/133110719/Gas-Tax-Fund-Raid-Sheet)) for the Budget Reconciliation and Financing Act (BRFA) for 2009 (http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?ys=2009rs/billfile/hb0101.htm), 2010 (http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?tab=subject3&ys=2010rs/billfile/sb0141.htm), and 2011 (http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?ys=2011rs/billfile/hb0072.htm) reveals that Governor O’Malley and the General Assembly removed $868 million in highway user revenues from the Transportation Trust Fund. Keep in mind that during this period, Maryland received $771 million (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKaNBUeEAwE&feature=player_embedded) in federal stimulus funds for transportation infrastructure. However, none of the money went to its intended purpose because of these raids.


The data shows that 76 percent of sitting delegates who voted yes on the gas tax increase also voted for all three fund raids totaling $868 million. Eight delegates who voted for only one fund raid (2011) were not members of legislature for the other two raids. Two delegates were excused from the 2009 vote, but voted for the other two raids totaling $564 million. Three delegates, Nina Harper, Darren Swain, and Alonzo Washington were not members of the House of Delegates until this year.


During floor debate on the gas tax Del. Frank Turner, (D-Howard County) argued in favor of the bill (http://marylandreporter.com/2013/03/22/house-approves-gas-tax-hike-of-10-cents-per-gallon-or-more/#ixzz2OXjrXGgl) citing poor road bridge maintenance in Maryland and collapses in other states. However, Turner voted twice to shift $564 million in transportation revenue to the general fund.


http://watchdogwire.com/maryland/2013/03/28/md-gas-tax-supporters-also-raided-868-million-in-transportation-funds/

[fj1200]

I agree with Logroller on this point: we all must pay something in taxes/fees for road maintenance and expansion.
However, in California, that fund is like a general slush fund and is continually raided for other purposes. We taxpayers are not getting a good return on investment and are rightfully pissed anytime they think about raising the fees/taxes.

As for Jersey, I am curious to see how these proposed fees/taxes for "green" vehicles compare to those for the standard earth slaughtering combustion vehicles. Are "green" drivers going to get the shaft or will it be commensurate with the globe killers?

New Jersey's state gas tax is $.145 so the number of gallons for the $50 to be a wash would be 344. Times 40 mpg would be almost 14,000 miles.

That doesn't sound right though.

[red states rule]

And her folks is tax and spend liberal who wants to do to the entire nation what he was done to the state of MD

Grow government and screw over the producers





The Maryland House of Delegates on Friday approved a gas-tax hike for the first time since 1992 that could have motorists paying 20 cents more per gallon by 2017.


Delegates voted 78-56 to pass Gov. Martin O’Malley’s transportation funding plan, House Bill 1515. (http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/hb/hb1515t.pdf) But immediately afterward, there were arguments over the voting process.





At one point, the Republican caucus left the floor for a closed-door meeting after some said they were locked out of voting last second and had miscast their vote. While some delegates might change their vote, however, the bill’s passage is not in question.



The Senate could take up the gas tax increase in the middle of next week, said Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller Jr. Miller expects the bill to pass in his chamber.



Under the bill’s terms, the cost of gas would go up by 4 cents per gallon in July. By 2017, drivers would be paying around 20 cents more per gallon than they’re paying today, according to an analysis by the Department of Legislative Services.



Supporters of the bill say Maryland needs to keep its transportation system competitive with neighboring Virginia, which earlier this month approved a plan to put about $880 million annually into roads and transit.



Friday’s session started more than an hour late as proponents and opponents made last-ditch efforts to swing votes, delegates said.



When debate finally began, those against the bill railed on how the plan’s gas tax increases would burden low-income Marylanders and stifle the state’s economy just as it was emerging from the recession.



“I, like you, have heard from many citizens around this state saying hey, we need to fix our roads. Maybe we can handle a little increase,” Del. Nic Kipke, R-Pasadena, told the House. “But this is nothing more than political terrorism ... it will depress our economy, it will depress our citizens and it rubs salt in the wound of our economic situation.”



The revised version (http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/government/house-panel-oks-o-malley-transportation-funding-plan/article_530c8664-5dcc-5179-ac28-c3470bdccd6c.html) of O’Malley’s plan ties the state’s 23.5-cent-per-gallon excise tax rate to the Consumer Price Index, allowing it to increase annually with inflation.



The plan also phases in a new sales tax on gas at the retail level. The sales tax would be 1 percent beginning in July and would grow to 2 and 3 percent in January and July 2015. If Congress fails to pass the Marketplace Equity Act, to allow taxation of Internet sales, the rate would jump to 4 and 5 percent during the same months in 2016.



Del. Jolene Ivey, D-Prince George’s, argued the money for transportation infrastructure could help her county lure the Federal Bureau of Investigation to move its headquarters there, attracting jobs from Washington, D.C.



By 2017, the plan would be bringing in more than $600 million a year for the Transportation Trust Fund. The Maryland Department of Transportation says it has only enough money to maintain existing systems. Planned projects, like the Red and Purple transit lines, have in the mean time been put on the back burner.



While opponents argued the bill would hurt poor people, Ivey insisted it would help them.



“Not being a terrorist myself, last time I looked,” Ivey said, “I would like to speak for the poor people in my district and in my county who are going to have expanded transit. Who are going to be able to get on a bus where no bus has been before, and won’t be unless we pass this bill.”



Del. Joseline Pena-Melnyk, D-College Park, said those who would be voting for the bill like herself weren’t taking their vote lightly. But she said by voting for the bill, it would help transportation projects get done in College Park and prevent deaths that she said happen today because of a poor transportation system there.



Others felt the bill wasn’t the right solution to the state’s transportation woes.



Del. Luiz Simmons, D-Montgomery, said the plan would bring an “egregiously regressive tax.” If it made any “serious attempt” to mitigate the risk to the people, Simmons said he would vote for the bill. But it doesn’t, he said.



Del. Herb McMillan, R-Annapolis, criticized the “lockbox” provision in the bill. He reiterated words he used earlier in the week, calling the lockbox a “wet paper bag,” that “a hamster could bust through.”



The lockbox provision was put into the bill after years of requests to prevent O’Malley from raiding the Transportation Trust Fund for non-transportation projects. House Bill 1515’s lockbox requires the support of three-fifths of the full standing committee assigned the legislation in the House and Senate.

Meanwhile, McMillan said tying the state’s 23.5-cent-per-gallon excise tax to inflation, allowing it to increase without a vote was “an abandonment of our duty under the law.”



O’Malley in a statement praised House leaders for getting the bill passed.



“With new roads, bridges, and transit systems, Maryland will continue to be competitive at attracting companies to invest, grow, and create jobs,” O’Malley said in a statement.



Senate President Miller predicted the bill would pass the Senate on a close vote. He expects opposition, but not the same acrimony that enveloped the House.



“I’m confident of its passage. It’s very important to move our economy forward,” Miller said.



Miller also tipped his cap to members who voted green.



“I salute the members of the House of Delegates who voted for it, putting our state first,” Miller said. “It was a tough vote, it doesn’t poll well. But this is an example of leadership and I’m very pleased with the leadership in the house and the members who recognized the importance of this bill.”


http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/government/maryland-house-passes-o-malley-s-gas-tax-plan/article_9e4b003a-90a2-5719-aafa-4d102696598c.html

[logroller]

LR you are amazing. You rant how you are not a liberal but you never miss a chance to support jacking up taxes on the producers so government can have more money to piss through
It's a consumer tax.


The main issue is that many states (including here in MD) is that the state government does NOT use gas tax revenue for the roads. O'Malley has raided the transportation trust fund to finance his handouts for the "poor"
yea that's crap that they take money from a trust fund and spend it on other things. But thats got zilch to do with green cars still using and causing wear on the roads as much as their gas powered counterparts.


I see where you tried to defend Obama's stimulus but you left out a few items

You asked a question in regard to the roads spending in arra, I answered it; and that's me trying to defend it? You're a fuckin idiot.



But I do find it touching your fellow lib FU also suppoorts your call to raise taxes on the wokring folks so government will not have to trim the blubber and bloated spending programs
The tax quite specifically targets driving folks, not working folks. Lots of people get to work without driving. Others think its all good to live in spacious luxury in the suburbs and drive into the city to work and I have no problem with that; the downside is more costly in terms of vehicle miles travelled (vmt). Personally I'd like to see a large network of toll roads that track car travel, but there are some obvious privacy issues involved.

[aboutime]

It's a consumer tax.

yea that's crap that they take money from a trust fund and spend it on other things. But thats got zilch to do with green cars still using and causing wear on the roads as much as their gas powered counterparts.


You asked a question in regard to the roads spending in arra, I answered it; and that's me trying to defend it? You're a fuckin idiot.


The tax quite specifically targets driving folks, not working folks. Lots of people get to work without driving. Others think its all good to live in spacious luxury in the suburbs and drive into the city to work and I have no problem with that; the downside is more costly in terms of vehicle miles travelled (vmt). Personally I'd like to see a large network of toll roads that track car travel, but there are some obvious privacy issues involved.


Thanks so much Logroller. Once again. Without realizing, or understanding it. You proved, once again how much of a real HYPOCRITE you are. Calling someone an 'f'in' idiot as you did. Was nothing more than your way of hiding your personal, educational challenges. That just keep failing to work. But I am sure. You really do impress yourself.

[red states rule]

It's a consumer tax.

yea that's crap that they take money from a trust fund and spend it on other things. But thats got zilch to do with green cars still using and causing wear on the roads as much as their gas powered counterparts.


You asked a question in regard to the roads spending in arra, I answered it; and that's me trying to defend it? You're a fuckin idiot.


The tax quite specifically targets driving folks, not working folks. Lots of people get to work without driving. Others think its all good to live in spacious luxury in the suburbs and drive into the city to work and I have no problem with that; the downside is more costly in terms of vehicle miles travelled (vmt). Personally I'd like to see a large network of toll roads that track car travel, but there are some obvious privacy issues involved.

Once again LR you have proven to everyone you are a tax and spend liberal

Gas taxes hurt the working class folks the most - however it is courtesy of your liberal polices that screw over the working class. I would like you to come to my workplace where over 1500 people drive in from three states and tell them how higher gas taxes does not target working people. You are so out of touch LR it is no wonder you were once singing the praises of the Obamacare exchanges and tried to deny all the taxes in that massive tax bill

Only in your liberal world would it not matter that Dems tax gas to pay for roads - spend it on other things - then come back and want to tax the folks again to "pay" for the roads

And it is classic liberalism to raise gas taxes, then implement tolls on the roads, and keep the gas tax (and perhaps raise the gas tax) that way you get to screw over the people twice for the same thing

Yes lR you are becoming quite a tax raiser there. Obama would be proud

[logroller]

Thanks so much Logroller. Once again. Without realizing, or understanding it. You proved, once again how much of a real HYPOCRITE you are. Calling someone an 'f'in' idiot as you did. Was nothing more than your way of hiding your personal, educational challenges. That just keep failing to work. But I am sure. You really do impress yourself.
You haven't said one thing in this entire thread that had anything to do with the subject. I take it back; rsr isn't an idiot, he's an asshole--- You're the fuckin village idiot. (That's slang for imbecile.)
And You're welcome.

[red states rule]

You haven't said one thing in this entire thread that had anything to do with the subject. I take it back; rsr isn't an idiot, he's an asshole--- You're the fuckin village idiot. (That's slang for imbecile.)
And You're welcome.

Sill upholding those high standards you are famous for I see. It is wonderful to see a liberal like yourself LR is so open minded and tolerant of diverse opinions

[logroller]

Once again LR you have proven to everyone you are a tax and spend liberal
i have? Seems your arguments assert a certain class of people are entitled to products and services they don't pay for.


Gas taxes hurt the working class folks the most - however it is courtesy of your liberal polices that screw over the working class.
What a stellar argument for a progressive tax system; how very liberal of you. So what's your proposal: tax the rich more to pay for the roads used predominantly by the working class?


I would like you to come to my workplace where over 1500 people drive in from three states and tell them how higher gas taxes does not target working people.


That's b awesome!!! I'll be in New York in two weeks. Just have everyone come there since they don't mind driving so much.




You are so out of touch LR it is no wonder you were once singing the praises of the Obamacare exchanges and tried to deny all the taxes in that massive tax bill
Apparently working in an entirely different state, driving there all alone in a personal automobile and only paying for half the cost incurred in providing the privilege is being "in touch" in your world. Here's a crazy idea; carpool, vanpool. There's even grants available and tax benefits to the company for encouraging the reduction in vehicles miles travelled = less road maintenance, need for expansion and congestion. Which really helps the working class work get to work/home faster and spending less money on their own personal car.


Only in your liberal world would it not matter that Dems tax gas to pay for roads - spend it on other things - then come back and want to tax the folks again to "pay" for the roads
The gas taxes are insufficient to cover the costs and massive appropriations from the general fund of the treasury are necessary to cover the cost of roads. Why shouldn't the people who use the roads pay for it? Your answer always falls back on; well the highway trust fund gets raided. That would explain why the roads suck; but in no way makes up for the fact income and property taxes make up atleast as much of the highway trust funds as gas taxes do. You constantly deride entitlement spending, and i can support you on that, and yet when it comes to paying for the roads you use everyday, you bock.


And it is classic liberalism to raise gas taxes, then implement tolls on the roads, and keep the gas tax (and perhaps raise the gas tax) that way you get to screw over the people twice for the same thing
clearly you have no idea what classic liberalism is, but regardless of your lackluster understanding of political concepts, Gas taxes and tolls cover half the cost of roads....you apparently think half equals twice.
And you work in the mortgage industry; its no wonder it crashed.

Yes lR you are becoming quite a tax raiser there. Obama would be proud
As opposed to what you propose, that "obamas gonna pay for my mortgage roads" . Yes rsr, taxes are what pay for our roads...except for you of course, you're entitled.

[red states rule]

Wow, LR you have mastered the art of saying so little while posting so much. YOu clearky have selective memory loss as you cannot address what you just posted. Like Obama and his promises, everything you post comes with expiration dates

Which in your case is the next post you make

Like your boy Obama you see workers and producers as renewable money sources

[logroller]

YOu clearky have selective memory loss as you cannot address what you just posted. Like Obama and his promises, everything you post comes with expiration dates


What? I cant remember to address what I already addressed in my own post???? promises? expiration dates?
Apparently your brain has overheated or something. Don't hurt yourself trying to distance yourself from your sense of entitlement; just focus on giving aboutime a run for his money on who's the board's biggest imbecile: he has quite the a head-start but I'm cheerin for ya! Maybe next post you throw in some gratuitous punctuation.

[logroller]

Sill upholding those high standards you are famous for I see. It is wonderful to see a liberal like yourself LR is so open minded and tolerant of diverse opinions
I'm very intolerant of ignorance. And yes, i have high standards when i comes to people nit being ignorant. Sorry you don't like it. Don't be ignorant then. Like accept that your gas taxes don't cover the costs incurred by those who maintain the roads you use.

[red states rule]

LR, like FU and Obama, you are a hopeless lost cause. Months ago you were puffing your chest over the greatness of Obamacare and the exchanges

Up until a few days ago you were singing the praises of Snowden

Yesterday you were all for double and even triple taxing people for the same dam thing

It is obvious your spin cycle is turb charged and you actually try to play dumb when called on your liberal BS. And it is so typical of you to go into the personal insults when boxed into a corner. I can understand your frustration of trying to defend your liberal beliefs and it can get trying to lsoe the deabte

But I thought you would be used to it by now and you would not get so emotional over losing

[logroller]

LR, like FU and Obama, you are a hopeless lost cause. Months ago you were puffing your chest over the greatness of Obamacare and the exchanges

Up until a few days ago you were singing the praises of Snowden

Yesterday you were all for double and even triple taxing people for the same dam thing

It is obvious your spin cycle is turb charged and you actually try to play dumb when called on your liberal BS. And it is so typical of you to go into the personal insults when boxed into a corner. I can understand your frustration of trying to defend your liberal beliefs and it can get trying to lsoe the deabte

But I thought you would be used to it by now and you would not get so emotional over losing
Despite all your lies and misrepresentations; half still doesn't equal double.

[aboutime]

I'm very intolerant of ignorance. And yes, i have high standards when i comes to people nit being ignorant. Sorry you don't like it. Don't be ignorant then. Like accept that your gas taxes don't cover the costs incurred by those who maintain the roads you use.


Logroller. Do you walk around wearing a gas-mask? If not. You should. The smell you generate with all of your own BS would gag a maggot.

[red states rule]

Logroller. Do you walk around wearing a gas-mask? If not. You should. The smell you generate with all of your own BS would gag a maggot.

It is more of the same from liberals like LR, FU, and Gabby

http://www.theantiliberalzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/give-a-man.jpg




At it is not the winning that is the problem when libs win elections. It is the taking that happens afterwards.

LR has clearly shown all he wants is more taking

[logroller]

Logroller. Do you walk around wearing a gas-mask? If not. You should. The smell you generate with all of your own BS would gag a maggot.
:gasp: a three-syllable word. I'm impressed.

It is more of the same from liberals like LR, FU, and Gabby

http://www.theantiliberalzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/give-a-man.jpg

More of the same alright-- Sound reasoning supported with actual facts from myself backs you into the corner and you respond with irrevelence, unfounded accusations and cartoons.



At it is not the winning that is the problem when libs win elections. It is the taking that happens afterwards.

LR has clearly shown all he wants is more taking

Where was that made clear? What I have made clear, and you have yet to present ANY evidence to the contrary, is that the taxes raised from US drivers don't cover the costs of roads and highways. Since when is paying for more than half of what you use being taken from? If I came to you and said I wanted to pay for half of what my home is valued, what would you say to me?

[Jeff]

What's the problem with paying for roads that one uses?

Truckers pay a road tax in fact it is out the wazoo what they pay and what has it done,nothing, take a ride across any bridge in NY and pay those ungodly prices to cross them and on top of it pay your road tax and nothing is getting done

[logroller]

Truckers pay a road tax in fact it is out the wazoo what they pay and what has it done,nothing, take a ride across any bridge in NY and pay those ungodly prices to cross them and on top of it pay your road tax and nothing is getting done
The weight on each axle plays a determinant role in how much damage is done to the roadway. I read a study that said tractor trailers do something like 80 times the damage a passenger vehicle does.
As far as urban areas go, are you talking about poor maintenance? Just to give some scale to the issue, there's over 10 million miles travelled on New York County roads everyday. With gas tax and tolls accounting for about half of the maintence costs, resources are invested only where it's absolutely necessary.


2005 Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)
County VMT (Millions)
Bronx 4721
Dutchess 3180
Kings 4900
Nassau 11920
New York 4378
Orange 4696
Putnam 3085
Queens 7839
Richmond 2002
Rockland 2731
Suffolk 19815
Westchester 9166
http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/40748.html

[red states rule]

Truckers pay a road tax in fact it is out the wazoo what they pay and what has it done,nothing, take a ride across any bridge in NY and pay those ungodly prices to cross them and on top of it pay your road tax and nothing is getting done

You are wasting your time Jeff. LR is a an old school liberal where government must NEVER go without and always deserves MORE money. It is irrelevant how much in taxes you are paying and it is irrelevant that you have paid taxes to maintain the roads.

Government must never go without for the common good. You on the other hand must make concessions to finance the government to acceptable levels. After all do only idiots think the people who earn the money can spend it more effectively and more effectively then government

[Jeff]

The weight on each axle plays a determinant role in how much damage is done to the roadway. I read a study that said tractor trailers do something like 80 times the damage a passenger vehicle does.
As far as urban areas go, are you talking about poor maintenance? Just to give some scale to the issue, there's over 10 million miles travelled on New York County roads everyday. With gas tax and tolls accounting for about half of the maintence costs, resources are invested only where it's absolutely necessary.


2005 Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)
County VMT (Millions)
Bronx 4721
Dutchess 3180
Kings 4900
Nassau 11920
New York 4378
Orange 4696
Putnam 3085
Queens 7839
Richmond 2002
Rockland 2731
Suffolk 19815
Westchester 9166
http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/40748.html


LR you are correct a TT will do more damage to roads than a car but I thought that was why they paid 5 times the amount in tolls than a car does , and like I said we also pay a road tax and fuel tax for each state we go into and the roads in many states are so poor you need a TT just to be able to get across the pot holes . Know if you took lets say the GW and added all the money that is collected in one day from trucks and cars they surely would have enough money to repair the road

[red states rule]

LR you are correct a TT will do more damage to roads than a car but I thought that was why they paid 5 times the amount in tolls than a car does , and like I said we also pay a road tax and fuel tax for each state we go into and the roads in many states are so poor you need a TT just to be able to get across the pot holes . Know if you took lets say the GW and added all the money that is collected in one day from trucks and cars they surely would have enough money to repair the road

That does not matter Jeff. The government demands your money and libs like LR have no objection to taking it away from you. So what if you already paid to maintain the roads? If government says it needs more money then LR demands you shut the hell up and hand it over

YOU go on a financial diet not the government

[jimnyc]

The weight on each axle plays a determinant role in how much damage is done to the roadway. I read a study that said tractor trailers do something like 80 times the damage a passenger vehicle does.
As far as urban areas go, are you talking about poor maintenance? Just to give some scale to the issue, there's over 10 million miles travelled on New York County roads everyday. With gas tax and tolls accounting for about half of the maintence costs, resources are invested only where it's absolutely necessary.


2005 Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT)
County VMT (Millions)
Bronx 4721
Dutchess 3180
Kings 4900
Nassau 11920
New York 4378
Orange 4696
Putnam 3085
Queens 7839
Richmond 2002
Rockland 2731
Suffolk 19815
Westchester 9166
http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/40748.html

Speaking for New York only, the money they take in for tolls and such is very rarely used. The GWB for example, I think it's $12 to cross now, maybe $14? Anyway, and then add in how many hundreds of thousands of vehicles cross it daily? Wiki states 276,150 daily - at $12 per vehicle (and that's not counting higher rates for rigs) the daily 'income' is $3,313,800. That's over $3 million dollars - DAILY. I cross the bridge fairly often, it's horrid. You cross through the tunnel portion and it's filthy and reeks like urine, and that's when I'm in a moving vehicle! The rest of the bridge always looks like it's being worked on, but it's not. Hell, they have gotten rid of most toll personnel and it's almost all EZ-pass now, or they take pictures and send you a bill.

So lets look at 1 year, how much do they take in within a year, leaving out the increased rates for rigs - $1,209,537,000 - with that kind of money from tolls... And it account for only half of the maintenance costs?$2.5 billion per year, and it always looks like hell and barely even cleaned.

I won't look up the daily travels for the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, but they are extremely filthy as well. With the money brought in yearly, they should be able to at least clean these crossings!

[red states rule]

Speaking for New York only, the money they take in for tolls and such is very rarely used. The GWB for example, I think it's $12 to cross now, maybe $14? Anyway, and then add in how many hundreds of thousands of vehicles cross it daily? Wiki states 276,150 daily - at $12 per vehicle (and that's not counting higher rates for rigs) the daily 'income' is $3,313,800. That's over $3 million dollars - DAILY. I cross the bridge fairly often, it's horrid. You cross through the tunnel portion and it's filthy and reeks like urine, and that's when I'm in a moving vehicle! The rest of the bridge always looks like it's being worked on, but it's not. Hell, they have gotten rid of most toll personnel and it's almost all EZ-pass now, or they take pictures and send you a bill.

So lets look at 1 year, how much do they take in within a year, leaving out the increased rates for rigs - $1,209,537,000 - with that kind of money from tolls... And it account for only half of the maintenance costs?$2.5 billion per year, and it always looks like hell and barely even cleaned.

I won't look up the daily travels for the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, but they are extremely filthy as well. With the money brought in yearly, they should be able to at least clean these crossings!

and yet you continue to pay gas taxes that is sold to the public as "paying for the roads and bridges"

Yet like in the state of MD - the money raised for those projects are not used for it. So when the public screams about the poor condition of the roads and bridges - the left whines how there is not enough funds available

UNLESS you want to pay more in taxes

[fj1200]

Speaking for New York only, the money they take in for tolls and such is very rarely used.

I don't that's correct. Aren't you ignoring the whole port authority system?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/26/usa-portauthority-idUSL2E8IL01020120726

[jimnyc]

I don't that's correct. Aren't you ignoring the whole port authority system?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/26/usa-portauthority-idUSL2E8IL01020120726

Monies received at tolls shouldn't be paying for the WTC. Regardless, I'm talking about tolls being used for road repairs and maintenance, which is what I quoted. Trust me, I live here, and the 5 crossings into NY that I use are all horribly maintained and/or even cleaned. People shouldn't be paying higher and higher tolls to fund things away from roads/tunnels, only to have those thing decay. Then they lower the level of actual people working too. Try going over the GW after 11pm at night, not a single soul to be found. You would think at millions per day that they could have at least one toll manned in case of problems. Even the lawsuit mentioned in the article states that they shouldn't be using these funds for anything outside of transportation projects, and I agree. But if we then add up daily income from all 5 crossways, assuming similar data, you're talking $15 million per day and about $6 billion per year. Also, you cut off after my initial sentence, which left alone is out of context. When I say that the monies are rarely used, it's in reference to actual maintenance, cleanings, employees and actually making the roads and crossways better.

[fj1200]

Monies received at tolls shouldn't be paying for the WTC. ... Also, you cut off after my initial sentence, which left alone is out of context. When I say that the monies are rarely used, it's in reference to actual maintenance, cleanings, employees and actually making the roads and crossways better.

I noticed a lawsuit about your first point and I believe they are restricted from using transportation monies for WTC etc. And the second point I just think you need to look at the total picture of what money they take in vs. actual costs of maintenance/new construction, etc. I didn't find anything quick and dirty on my tablet.

And I didn't mean to take anything out of context. :redface:

[jimnyc]

I noticed a lawsuit about your first point and I believe they are restricted from using transportation monies for WTC etc. And the second point I just think you need to look at the total picture of what money they take in vs. actual costs of maintenance/new construction, etc. I didn't find anything quick and dirty on my tablet.

And I didn't mean to take anything out of context. :redface:

Back to my original point - $3 mil per day, and $1.2 billion per year. I don't expect miracles, but the least they can do with that kind of dough is to keep the bridge clean. And it's ALL the crossways that are filthy, well the Tappan Zee isn't so bad, and that is the first on the list to be completely rebuilt in a few years. They are hiking the toll there, and more so to rigs, in order to pay for the new bridge. I cross the GWB so many times every year, with every trip I take to NJ. For the trip back, on the NYC bound entrance, you pass under what I call a "mini tunnel" just prior to getting on the bridge, for the lower level. It stinks horribly and the walls are as black as the tunnel walls, if not worse. And there is ALWAYS cones around the parts that look like they are under construction - but there is never any workers to be found and the bridge never changes. I understand that other things get funded by the port authority - but money collected at the GWB should at least first go towards the GWB. Don't even get me started on the Holland and Lincoln tunnels. Disgusting, smelly and horrid in appearance. Anyone coming into NY for the first time, there first impression will be that it's a shithole.

It seems like it was just yesterday that the tolls into NYC was $4, and we thought that was high. Then 6, then 8, then 10, then 12 and now apparently it is 13 dollars. All these increases and very little projects going on, at least noticeable projects (outside of the WTC).