Edward Snowden: US government has been hacking Hong Kong and China for years

[jimnyc]

Does whistleblowing count for releasing national security secrets to other countries as well? If the US is involved in 'intelligence gathering' via hacking, which every country in the world is likely trying - is that something to share with another country because you disagree with it? Sorry folks, this is leaning WAY in the wrong direction for me to support. He's just divulged national security secrets to a foreign country. And obviously did so because he wants their support.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china

[Voted4Reagan]

Mr. Snowden just went from Whistle blower to traitor.

Hunt him down and bring him in...

[BillyBob]

Mr. Snowden just went from Whistle blower to traitor.

Hunt him down and bring him in...


Obama's been a traitor for 5 years. Hunt him down and give him the appropriate sentence.

[Voted4Reagan]

Obama's been a traitor for 5 years. Hunt him down and give him the appropriate sentence.

Are you threatening the President?

You really need to stop....

[revelarts]

is that news?

we know from nightly news that China has been doing it to us does anyone really think we haven't been doing the same. Russia and Israel are hacking us too.


http://rt.com/usa/us-hacking-exploits-millions-104/
may 17 2013

Want more? Data from Germany’s Deutsche Telekom shows that more attacks against its networks come from the US.

Obama will tell his people that the Chinese are responsible for this hack, or that one. Still think that the US is not the number one cyber threat to the planet in 2013?
Read this shocking report…
The United States government is investing tens of millions of dollars each year on offensive hacking operations in order to exploit vulnerabilities in the computers of its adversaries, Reuters reports.
According to an in-depth article published Friday by journalist Joseph Menn, the US and its Department of Defense contractors are increasingly pursuing efforts to hack the computers of foreign competitors, in turn exposing a rarely discussed aspect of the nation’s clandestine cyber operations.

In a time when the government continues to prosecute alleged domestic computer criminals — so much so that demands for technology law reform (http://rt.com/usa/swartz-cfaa-aaron-law-148/) have been rampant as of late — Menn says the US is guilty of spending millions on discovering, identifying and exploiting previously unknown security flaws, often gaining unfettered access to the systems and networks of international targets.

As a result, the US has become one of the world’s top players in regards to wreaking havoc over the Internet — even as calls to investigate foreign hackers increase in Congress.

On Tuesday, a bipartisan supported proposal was introduced in Congress specifically to protect US commercial data from being compromised by foreign hackers. According to Menn, however, the American government is just as guilty of cybercrimes as the countries it warns against in introducing the “Deter Cyber Theft Act.”
“Even as the US government confronts rival powers over widespread Internet espionage, it has become the biggest buyer in a burgeoning gray market where hackers and security firms sell tools for breaking into computers,” Menn wrote.
In his report, Menn explained that a large chunk of the country’s current cyber endeavors does not rely on defensive strategy as one might imagine, but instead involves offensive operations launched with the intent of causing harm on the computers of adversaries.

Menn wrote defense contractors “spend at least tens of millions of dollars a year” on simply researching exploits that, if pursued, could put the eyes and ears of the American intelligence company essentially anywhere in the world.
And although the US has not officially gone on the record to acknowledge these shadowy operations, Menn wrote that the nation’s most well-known cyber endeavor — the Stuxnet (http://rt.com/usa/virus-researchers-flame-stuxnet-356/) worm that targeted Iranian nuclear plants — is just one example of the budding attempts to attack foreign entities.

“Computer researchers in the public and private sectors say the US government, acting mainly through defense contractors, has become the dominant player in fostering the shadowy but large-scale commercial market for tools known as exploits, which burrow into hidden computer vulnerabilities,” he wrote.

“In their most common use, exploits are critical but interchangeable components inside bigger programs. Those programs can steal financial account passwords, turn an iPhone (http://www.amazon.ca/s?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=iphone) into a listening device or, in the case of Stuxnet, sabotage a nuclear facility.”
Menn cited several defense contractors and government officials — many speaking on condition of anonymity — who admitted the increasingly dominant role the US government has in pursuing research on these exploits and using them to attack rival networks.
According to the report, “Reuters reviewed a product catalogue from one large contractor, which was made available on condition the vendor not be named. Scores of programs were listed. Among them was a means to turn any iPhone (http://www.amazon.ca/s?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=iphone) into a room-wide eavesdropping device. Another was a system for installing spyware on a printer or other device and moving that malware to a nearby computer via radio waves, even when the machines aren’t connected to anything.”....
http://rt.com/usa/us-hacking-exploits-millions-104/
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2011/10/german-hackers-find-possible-g.html



Government committing the crimes
"OH well, ho hum ,maybe we can vote them out, but you what, it's probably for our safety, God bless u big brother...",
one guy commits lesser crime , or tells something everyone already knows..
"kill Him!! Kill Himmm!! hangins to good for um!!! traitorrr traitorrr AAAHHHHH!!!! make an example out of him!! YA send out the death squads mien guberment.... snell snelll!!!"

[jimnyc]

People having their perceptions and such are one thing, even with proof. Having an employee that was privy to data, take it to another country and "admit" to a crime by the USA - that's borderlines traitorous. I'm sure we all have our ideas of what our intel agencies do, especially the CIA. Getting "intelligence" isn't going on the internet and looking at news sites. If Americans want intel agencies shut down because they cut corners gathering intelligence, so be it. They are a necessary evil in dealing with certain countries, and I'm sure we all believe they are doing the same. But going to another country and announcing that your own country committed how many crimes? He has clearly betrayed the trust that was given to him when he was privy to this information. He is now using it to his advantage to get in the good graces of a foreign country, at his countries expense. That's almost the textbook definition of a traitor:

1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.

2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.


And there is already talks that this could put a wrinkly into upcoming talks with members from China.

[Gaffer]

As just a whistle I could support him. But, sharing info with our enemies is another level entirely. He's moved into the realm of traitor.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Are you threatening the President?

You really need to stop.... Obama IS A DAMN TRAITOR JUST AS SURE AS GOD MADE LITTLE GREEN APPLES. THE BASTARD SHOULD BE IMPEACHED AND SEE HIS DAMN DAY IN COURT. THAT IS NOT A THREAT THAT IS JUSTICE. Anybody thinks he is supposed to be above the law has lost their damn freaking mind or else are about as smart as a box of rocks. Obama has not served we the people, this nation or tried to obey and protect the Constitution instead he pursues a personal socialist agenda and attempts to destroy this nation as it was founded. I don't know about you but to me that is ffing treason. fff-him..-Tyr

[logroller]

As just a whistle I could support him. But, sharing info with our enemies is another level entirely. He's moved into the realm of traitor.
China's our enemy? Shouldn't companies that trade with china be considered traitors also?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

China's our enemy? Shouldn't companies that trade with china be considered traitors also? Technically yes but an enemy one falls to properly recognize can not be used in such a manner. For first there must be acceptance of the truth and then policy to defend against the threat. Only after being declared our enemy can those trading with China be declared traitors. A not very likely thing to ever happen. As this new kind of war being waged on us currently is not one of planes, tanks, soldiers , guns bombs and bullets. It is subterfuge, infiltration, propaganda and corruption from within that allows and promotes a financial war. Check the financial state of this nation and get back to me on how we are doing in this new warfare.. -Tyr

[logroller]

Technically yes but an enemy one falls to properly recognize can not be used in such a manner. For first there must be acceptance of the truth and then policy to defend against the threat. Only after being declared our enemy can those trading with China be declared traitors. A not very likely thing to ever happen. As this new kind of war being waged on us currently is not one of planes, tanks, soldiers , guns bombs and bullets. It is subterfuge, infiltration, propaganda and corruption from within that allows and promotes a financial war. Check the financial state of this nation and get back to me on how we are doing in this new warfare.. -Tyr
Well if not properly recognized as an enemy, How does one hold snowden as a traitor?
Btw, we engage in corporate espionage too...well, contractors do and get a pass since the government enjoys the privileged info. Still illegal Though. There a word for that, it's called crony capitalism. Didn't assange or manning expose that?
So far as the truth being exposed, it seems some/many demand these leakers be held accountable for exposing the truth...since its classified. The truth is classified. How does one accept something they aren't supposed to know?

[jimnyc]

There's the dictionary definition of a traitor and the legal definition. No doubt he meets the dictionary definition, he definitely betrayed our country. Whether he aided an 'enemy' is debatable. I wouldn't call China a declared enemy, and I wouldn't call them an ally either. But to ME there is little difference. He took national security secrets and shared them with a foreign country AND did so to win them over in an attempt to get asylum. Had this been the UK we allegedly hacked over the years, and someone went over there and spilled the beans from their NS related position, I would say the same thing. National security secrets remain where they are, they don't get exposed to foreign countries. He betrayed his position and his country. His betrayal makes him a textbook traitor IMO. Whether one can make a "legal" connection out of that, not sure I really care. I'm not asking for him to be charged with treason. But treason aside, he still betrayed his oath and country.

[fj1200]

Technically yes but an enemy one falls to properly recognize can not be used in such a manner. For first there must be acceptance of the truth and then policy to defend against the threat. Only after being declared our enemy can those trading with China be declared traitors. A not very likely thing to ever happen. As this new kind of war being waged on us currently is not one of planes, tanks, soldiers , guns bombs and bullets. It is subterfuge, infiltration, propaganda and corruption from within that allows and promotes a financial war. Check the financial state of this nation and get back to me on how we are doing in this new warfare.. -Tyr

China didn't do anything to put us in our financial state; that was all our doing.

[logroller]

There's the dictionary definition of a traitor and the legal definition. No doubt he meets the dictionary definition, he definitely betrayed our country. Whether he aided an 'enemy' is debatable. I wouldn't call China a declared enemy, and I wouldn't call them an ally either. But to ME there is little difference.
I think you mean it's of little consequence; there's definitely a difference between an ally and an enemy with respect to whether one is a traitor or not. It was so important a definition it was provided for in Our Constitution-- in fact, it was the only crime so defined. So clearly, it makes difference.



He took national security secrets and shared them with a foreign country AND did so to win them over in an attempt to get asylum.
He shared them with a lot of people; he sought to publish them, worldwide. Why did he do that if asylum was motive?



Had this been the UK we allegedly hacked over the years, and someone went over there and spilled the beans from their NS related position, I would say the same thing. National security secrets remain where they are, they don't get exposed to foreign countries.
What if our own government shared intel about foreign communications, and in exchange the UK shared their intel on our domestic communications. Would you have a problem with that? (They did that btw-- operation Prism.)
The official response was, if you have nothing to hide...
But foreign secretary William Hague dismissed as ‘fanciful’ and ‘nonsense’ allegations UK intelligence agency GCHQ colluded on Prism in order to spy on UK citizens.He said: ‘If you are a law-abiding citizen of this country going about your business and personal life you have nothing to fear about the British state or intelligence agencies listening to the content of your phone calls or anything like that.http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/09/google-facebook-and-yahoo-deny-co-operating-with-surveillance-programme-3833725/
But what sort of things are "law-abiding" nowadays? Is speaking out against Muslim extremists lawful? Being a member of the tea party? Exposing government wrongdoing?



He betrayed his position and his country. His betrayal makes him a textbook traitor IMO. Whether one can make a "legal" connection out of that, not sure I really care. I'm not asking for him to be charged with treason. But treason aside, he still betrayed his oath and country.
Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree on the betrayal of country; government and country aren't one in the same IMO.

[jimnyc]

I think you mean it's of little consequence; there's definitely a difference between an ally and an enemy with respect to whether one is a traitor or not. It was so important a definition it was provided for in Our Constitution-- in fact, it was the only crime so defined. So clearly, it makes difference.


He shared them with a lot of people; he sought to publish them, worldwide. Why did he do that if asylum was motive?


What if our own government shared intel about foreign communications, and in exchange the UK shared their intel on our domestic communications. Would you have a problem with that? (They did that btw-- operation Prism.)
The official response was, if you have nothing to hide...http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/09/google-facebook-and-yahoo-deny-co-operating-with-surveillance-programme-3833725/
But what sort of things are "law-abiding" nowadays? Is speaking out against Muslim extremists lawful? Being a member of the tea party? Exposing government wrongdoing?


Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree on the betrayal of country; government and country aren't one in the same IMO.

He DID NOT seek to publish them worldwide, that was with the NSA stuff. The hacking he never published and solely stated that to the Chinese and AFTER he was already there. He revealed documents related to the PRISM program, but not a single one related to hacking, that I am aware of.

And no, I CLEARLY did not mention the COTUS. One can be a traitor by the dictionary sense and still not be guilty of treason.

But if you think it's cool that any intelligence agent with access to sensitive information, should be able to share it with foreign governments, whether "enemy" or not, that's your choice. Like you said, we can agree to disagree. I think helping American citizens is one thing, but 'confirming' secrets to a foreign country as an agent of the USA is a bit too far for me.

[logroller]

He DID NOT seek to publish them worldwide, that was with the NSA stuff. The hacking he never published and solely stated that to the Chinese and AFTER he was already there. He revealed documents related to the PRISM program, but not a single one related to hacking, that I am aware of.

And no, I CLEARLY did not mention the COTUS. One can be a traitor by the dictionary sense and still not be guilty of treason.

But if you think it's cool that any intelligence agent with access to sensitive information, should be able to share it with foreign governments, whether "enemy" or not, that's your choice. Like you said, we can agree to disagree. I think helping American citizens is one thing, but 'confirming' secrets to a foreign country as an agent of the USA is a bit too far for me.
im hearig a lot of contradictory claims on this. He didnt publish the docs, but we know about them. He "confirmed" secrets to the Chinese, but they were exaggerations.

Dude had $200k/ year job living in Hawaii and managed to leverage classified documents, that he supposedly shouldn't have access to without being noticed by the authorities, all so he could get an indefinite stay holed up in a Hong Kong hotel room in constant fear of death or extradition. That's his end-game? Sorry bro, doesn't add up.

[aboutime]

Snowden broke the law. Violated his signed contract, and oath. Whether the information was old, or new DOES NOT MATTER.

If anyone gives him a pass...like Obama and Holder have been doing all along. That is considered Conspiracy to Treason as well.

[revelarts]

China's our enemy? Shouldn't companies that trade with china be considered traitors also?

ANy company that works or produces products in China by default gives up all it's patented info and technical specs to the Chinese gov't as price of doing biz. that including defense parts manufactures , internet companies, any tech manufacturers, etcetc.

sounds sorta like companies are blackmailed into treason by "low low prices" to me. I don't understand how the U.S. Gov't allows some american companies to operate out of China personally.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well if not properly recognized as an enemy, How does one hold snowden as a traitor?
Btw, we engage in corporate espionage too...well, contractors do and get a pass since the government enjoys the privileged info. Still illegal Though. There a word for that, it's called crony capitalism. Didn't assange or manning expose that?
So far as the truth being exposed, it seems some/many demand these leakers be held accountable for exposing the truth...since its classified. The truth is classified. How does one accept something they aren't supposed to know? Always start with a diligent search for the truth. Americans are being kept in the dark by our government. As to Snowden its a mixed bag IMHO. Does out government have either legal or ethical right to spy on every American? Constitution says no but hey our government doesn't give two rips about that anymore. If its hard to know what is right people should just go with what has been done in the past to secure the future for our kids and grandchildren. That is put faith in God, defend truth and fight evil. Right now the greatest evil we face is the bastard running the show here =Obama.. There should be a ten million man march on Washington to force the traitor out but nothing will be done until after its too late... sadly that is our fate. Perhaps a justice for over 50 million murdered Americans (abortion).. The 'ole Wheel of Justice may grind ever so damn slow but it also grinds ever so exceedingly fine... We shall not escape justice for 50+ million murdered , no sir not be any means.-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Snowden broke the law. Violated his signed contract, and oath. Whether the information was old, or new DOES NOT MATTER.

If anyone gives him a pass...like Obama and Holder have been doing all along. That is considered Conspiracy to Treason as well.

Some disagree, and some even thing Bradley Manning is equally a hero, for violating his oath and stealing government documents and national security information. Oh well, they're entitled to their opinions. Unfortunately, their heroes will likely be imprisoned for the rest of their lives, or one of them lucky enough to run from the law for the rest of his life. With a little luck from a thing called "karma", Snowden will find himself imprisoned for a serious crime in Hong Kong or Beijing, and then he'll be wishing he was back in Congress or in an intelligence committee, trying to do things the right way, the lawful way, before immediately going to another country and proclaiming himself and his home country as criminals.

Yeah, yeah, I know, a handful of others tried to do the right thing. It didn't work out well for them. But I don't recall a "get to break the law" set of cards being handed out for future use as a result. Again, he could have at least got some damn good lawyers and had the data protected, and himself prior to coming forward. He could have protected himself. If the date "proves" the acts he speaks of - then if/when the government shot him down, he could have then released the data and made them look foolish. If they tried anything against him, he could/would have already had himself protected via an attorney before hand to protect his rights. SO many ways this could have been done where he would have been protected, the data protected - but he chose another route, and chose to try and embarrass his country, and try to create international tension between countries.