3 Brothers AWOL In Minnesota (to tune of 4 dead in Ohio)

[Psychoblues]

How can this happen? What is slipping in the DoD? Or should I say DoO. Whatever, this is indicative of a much larger problem for the bushies and other chickenhawk legislators and executives.


After enlisting in the Minnesota Army National Guard, the Kamunens had second thoughts and didn't return to basic training after Christmas.

By Randy Furst, Star Tribune

CARLTON, MINN. -- Luke Kamunen began to wonder if he'd made a mistake the moment he arrived for basic training. He was still in the airport at Fort Jackson, S.C., with other members of his Minnesota National Guard unit, when an officer reprimanded him publicly for leaving a paper cup on his seat in the airport.
"I was thinking, is this what it's going to be like the whole time?" Luke said. "I'm not even on the bus yet."

His twin brother, Leif, started having doubts within weeks when a drill sergeant indicated they were probably headed to Iraq. Leif said that possibility had been downplayed by the recruiter who signed him up in Duluth.

On Jan. 2, the twins, age 21, and their brother Leo, 20, went AWOL from the Army. All three failed to return to basic training after Christmas break in northern Minnesota. Five months later, Luke has been released from the military, while Leif and Leo remain absent without leave. They say they plan to turn themselves in soon.

The Kamunen brothers are an example of a growing problem -- Army desertions have risen 35 percent in the past two years, according to Defense Department figures. The number rose from 2,450 in 2004 to 3,301 in 2006.

There are many more who go AWOL -- tens of thousands who leave without permission for anywhere from 24 hours to 30 days.

"In any large group of military, you are always going to have some people change their minds," said Dennis Schulstad, a retired Air Force brigadier general and a former Minneapolis City Council member. Soldiers who desert are only a fraction of the 2.5 million in the military.

But Ronald Krebs, a political science professor at the University of Minnesota, blames the sharp rise on the "unfathomable pressure" that recruiters are now under. He says that forces them to lower standards and recruit people who might be less stable.

"Lower-quality recruits desert at much higher rates than higher-quality recruits," said Krebs, author of "Fighting for Rights: Military Service and the Politics of Citizenship," published last year by Cornell University Press.

The Kamunens are typical of young recruits who go AWOL, said Sam Diener of the GI Rights Hotline, a national organization that counsels soldiers. "The recruits are disproportionately rural, mostly high school graduates who aren't sure what to do next," he said.

Still, the Kamunens' situation is unusual, simply because there are three of them. "I've talked to thousands and thousands of AWOLs," said the GI Hotline's Bill Galvin. "And I don't think I've ever heard of two brothers going AWOL at the same time."

Give it a read and tell me what you really think?!?!?!??!? Thanks in advance!!!!!

[theHawk]

Sounds to me like they are the chickenshits.

"I was thinking, is this what it's going to be like the whole time?" Luke said. "I'm not even on the bus yet."

Its just boot camp, of course they are going to yell at you the whole time about stupid little things.

What a bunch of pussys.

[Gaffer]

Sounds like a bunch of spoiled brats that didn't like what they got into when they enlisted.

The opinions of a political science professor have nothing to do with the military. Sounds like someone was scraping up somebody to spout anti-military propaganda.

[theHawk]

pb spreading anti-military propaganda? Naw!!

[Gaffer]

pb spreading anti-military propaganda? Naw!!

Yeah who'da thunk it.

[Psychoblues]

I am not and have never claimed to be a professor.



Yeah who'da thunk it.

I would refer you to the article as posted and keep your ad hominems to a minimal.

Indeed. Who'da thunk it?

[lkamunen]

hey you cock winders the "hawk" and "gaffer" you guys are so fuckin typical!!
yeah I'm one of the brothers who ditched that joke of an outfit called the army! Next time you guys post a comment and think you know what your talking about get your fuckin sources straight. First thing, the guy who wrote the article on us was an old fart who put shit in there just for the publicity. Half that shit we didn't say. If you guys think your so damn tuff with your little postings why don;t you come to my house personally. The army was a fuckiin joke and anyone who backs that shit up is dumber then my shit floating in the toilet. The majority of people that join are hopeless little retards who don't have any other chioce in life, so they stick it through. And eventually get there dumb ass demolished by an IED some jew put under there vehicle. who would fight for some old man named bush anyway. Sounds to me like you guys are the chickenshits. There aint many people who have the balls to leave even when they really have to. Some people just got more important shit to do then listen to a bunch of niggers in a round hat scream at them all day, and burn there asses off in the hot sun!! Yeah one more thing, the army don't pay shit!! I could work at micdonalds and make more money in one year!!! Fuck you!!

[LiberalNation]

Nice, well it's your life and some of it might even be true but you signed up on your on free will, no one put a gun to your head, when you sign a contract your expected to fullfill it.

[82Marine89]

hey you cock winders the "hawk" and "gaffer" you guys are so fuckin typical!!
yeah I'm one of the brothers who ditched that joke of an outfit called the army! Next time you guys post a comment and think you know what your talking about get your fuckin sources straight. First thing, the guy who wrote the article on us was an old fart who put shit in there just for the publicity. Half that shit we didn't say. If you guys think your so damn tuff with your little postings why don;t you come to my house personally. The army was a fuckiin joke and anyone who backs that shit up is dumber then my shit floating in the toilet. The majority of people that join are hopeless little retards who don't have any other chioce in life, so they stick it through. And eventually get there dumb ass demolished by an IED some jew put under there vehicle. who would fight for some old man named bush anyway. Sounds to me like you guys are the chickenshits. There aint many people who have the balls to leave even when they really have to. Some people just got more important shit to do then listen to a bunch of niggers in a round hat scream at them all day, and burn there asses off in the hot sun!! Yeah one more thing, the army don't pay shit!! I could work at micdonalds and make more money in one year!!! Fuck you!!

Lookie here. We have us an internet tough guy. "You come to my house and my pa will kick your ass." Fuck you, you cum chuggling, knob gobbling, piss ant. You and your two pillow biting brothers need to go back to daisy chaining each other and leave life to the real men. In fact fuck stain, why don't the three of you share a gallon of Drano? And before you think about getting a job at "micdonalds", you might want to think about 7th grade spelling again. Sorry you got butt hurt over having someone yell at you. You go right back to sucking mama's titty and she'll take care of you. Maybe she'll kick my ass after I'm done with your daddy. Then your whole family can go to your Klan meeting and you can tell them how some old Marine kicked your ass.

[82Marine89]

Just want to add that I apologize to any of the regular members of this board if I offended you with my language.

~Mick

[lkamunen]

ok HOSS!! Sorry i didn't check my spelling and grammer option. Its just blurbs you hick!! uhhhh??? you can come to my house and meet my PA! uhhhh??? I'm 82 marine and I like muscle cars and american flags! uuhhhh???? Hey go fuck yourself you buzz cut billy!!!

[lkamunen]

I just want to apologize to my fellow butt puggers. I might have offened someone. GO suck your pa's shriveled pecker! 82 marine

[82Marine89]

Look here li'l Himmler. If you want to go rounds with me you need to bring your 'A' game. Don't re-use stuff I've already said.

:fu:

[Missileman]

How can this happen? What is slipping in the DoD? Or should I say DoO. Whatever, this is indicative of a much larger problem for the bushies and other chickenhawk legislators and executives.


After enlisting in the Minnesota Army National Guard, the Kamunens had second thoughts and didn't return to basic training after Christmas.

By Randy Furst, Star Tribune

CARLTON, MINN. -- Luke Kamunen began to wonder if he'd made a mistake the moment he arrived for basic training. He was still in the airport at Fort Jackson, S.C., with other members of his Minnesota National Guard unit, when an officer reprimanded him publicly for leaving a paper cup on his seat in the airport.
"I was thinking, is this what it's going to be like the whole time?" Luke said. "I'm not even on the bus yet."

His twin brother, Leif, started having doubts within weeks when a drill sergeant indicated they were probably headed to Iraq. Leif said that possibility had been downplayed by the recruiter who signed him up in Duluth.

On Jan. 2, the twins, age 21, and their brother Leo, 20, went AWOL from the Army. All three failed to return to basic training after Christmas break in northern Minnesota. Five months later, Luke has been released from the military, while Leif and Leo remain absent without leave. They say they plan to turn themselves in soon.

The Kamunen brothers are an example of a growing problem -- Army desertions have risen 35 percent in the past two years, according to Defense Department figures. The number rose from 2,450 in 2004 to 3,301 in 2006.

There are many more who go AWOL -- tens of thousands who leave without permission for anywhere from 24 hours to 30 days.

"In any large group of military, you are always going to have some people change their minds," said Dennis Schulstad, a retired Air Force brigadier general and a former Minneapolis City Council member. Soldiers who desert are only a fraction of the 2.5 million in the military.

But Ronald Krebs, a political science professor at the University of Minnesota, blames the sharp rise on the "unfathomable pressure" that recruiters are now under. He says that forces them to lower standards and recruit people who might be less stable.

"Lower-quality recruits desert at much higher rates than higher-quality recruits," said Krebs, author of "Fighting for Rights: Military Service and the Politics of Citizenship," published last year by Cornell University Press.

The Kamunens are typical of young recruits who go AWOL, said Sam Diener of the GI Rights Hotline, a national organization that counsels soldiers. "The recruits are disproportionately rural, mostly high school graduates who aren't sure what to do next," he said.

Still, the Kamunens' situation is unusual, simply because there are three of them. "I've talked to thousands and thousands of AWOLs," said the GI Hotline's Bill Galvin. "And I don't think I've ever heard of two brothers going AWOL at the same time."

Give it a read and tell me what you really think?!?!?!??!? Thanks in advance!!!!!

I'm not so sure you can't just ring this up as the the gimme mentality of today's kids. When they realized there was actually work involved in soldiering, they want no part of it. And since the 3 are brothers, it stands a good possibility you can blame the way they were raised.

[jimnyc]

hey you cock winders the "hawk" and "gaffer" you guys are so fuckin typical!!

I suggest you lose the attitude and language if you plan on posting here. Disagree all you like but it's not wise to come off like a troll on your first few posts.

[Trinity]

hey you cock winders the "hawk" and "gaffer" you guys are so fuckin typical!!
yeah I'm one of the brothers who ditched that joke of an outfit called the army! Next time you guys post a comment and think you know what your talking about get your fuckin sources straight. First thing, the guy who wrote the article on us was an old fart who put shit in there just for the publicity. Half that shit we didn't say. If you guys think your so damn tuff with your little postings why don;t you come to my house personally. The army was a fuckiin joke and anyone who backs that shit up is dumber then my shit floating in the toilet. The majority of people that join are hopeless little retards who don't have any other chioce in life, so they stick it through. And eventually get there dumb ass demolished by an IED some jew put under there vehicle. who would fight for some old man named bush anyway. Sounds to me like you guys are the chickenshits. There aint many people who have the balls to leave even when they really have to. Some people just got more important shit to do then listen to a bunch of niggers in a round hat scream at them all day, and burn there asses off in the hot sun!! Yeah one more thing, the army don't pay shit!! I could work at micdonalds and make more money in one year!!! Fuck you!!

Wow aren't you the intelligent one..............here's a clue............... clean up your language........................ intelligent people can actually use words that are not classified as curse words.

[Gaffer]

hey you cock winders the "hawk" and "gaffer" you guys are so fuckin typical!!
yeah I'm one of the brothers who ditched that joke of an outfit called the army! Next time you guys post a comment and think you know what your talking about get your fuckin sources straight. First thing, the guy who wrote the article on us was an old fart who put shit in there just for the publicity. Half that shit we didn't say. If you guys think your so damn tuff with your little postings why don;t you come to my house personally. The army was a fuckiin joke and anyone who backs that shit up is dumber then my shit floating in the toilet. The majority of people that join are hopeless little retards who don't have any other chioce in life, so they stick it through. And eventually get there dumb ass demolished by an IED some jew put under there vehicle. who would fight for some old man named bush anyway. Sounds to me like you guys are the chickenshits. There aint many people who have the balls to leave even when they really have to. Some people just got more important shit to do then listen to a bunch of niggers in a round hat scream at them all day, and burn there asses off in the hot sun!! Yeah one more thing, the army don't pay shit!! I could work at micdonalds and make more money in one year!!! Fuck you!!

Well if you want a visit from any of us just post your address and I'm sure a number of us would be happy to oblige you. But I'm certainly not driving out of state just to kick your dumb ass with the price of gas being what it is. And spell check is your friend.

A for someone putting words in your mouth, you might have come on here and explained it instead of trying to act like a bad ass. Your not very good with words and your way out classed here. Making threats will just get you banned, if you haven't been already. IED's are being used by arabs, not jews. You need to get your races straight.

I agree with 82, your a spoiled lazy boy who didn't like that he would have to do something when he got to basic.

[rppearso]

After wadding through all the superfluous explitives I have to say the people that go awol are right. These military hardliners that keep using the term "hard work" is a misnomer because most people dont have a gimmie attitude and are willing to put in lagit hard work for adaquate compensation, its the hazing that people dont like, did you know that you can be fired as a supervisor in the civilian world for treating people like drill sgts treat people, so using that logic the entire civilian population and any ex-military that are no longer serving are all a bunch or "pussys". Work place harrasment laws are passed by legislators who are elected by the majority which includes ex-military. There are so many inconsistancys in military hardliners arguments its not even funny, no one should have to tolerate "some guy in a round hat" hazing the shit out of you. Even people who do not go awol do not nessicarily want to be there some do it because they need the paycheck and dont have the nessicary skills to get a good paying civilian job. If I were in the air port and that happened to me I would probably call air port security and have that sorry officers ass arrested for verbal assult and then get on the next plane home. Military people talk so hard but when the shit hits the fan most of them are no different from anyone else, and shit hitting the fan is not some drill hazing a bunch of 18 yr olds. Shit hitting the fan would be someone comming to my house and being met with heavy weapons fire, round hat or not your going to drop when I put 20 rounds of .308 in you with my PTR-91, shot gun or if you surprise me 18 rounds of hollow point 9mm, thats the real deal not hazing a bunch of defenseless 18 yr old kids.

[lkamunen]

yeah it's not going to worry me a bit not to post another message on this site. Just wanted to join the world of bordom for a bit and see all the wonderfull messages on this page! It really seems like people have something to say about this NOT SO INTERESTING topic!!!
3 brothers go awol OOHHH BOY OHH MY!

[jimnyc]

3 brothers go awol OOHHH BOY OHH MY!

More like 3 pussies who can't handle the real world. "Oh no, he yelled at me, he hazed me!"

I know guys who dealt with harsher crap in fraternities.

And why not get out through the proper channels instead of playing hide and seek like a little 5 year old girl?

[jimnyc]

After wadding through all the superfluous explitives I have to say the people that go awol are right.

You're just happy because another wuss that can't handle the military feels like you do.

People that go AWOL are criminals, and are betraying the oath they took.

[Abbey Marie]

yeah it's not going to worry me a bit not to post another message on this site. Just wanted to join the world of bordom for a bit and see all the wonderfull messages on this page! It really seems like people have something to say about this NOT SO INTERESTING topic!!!
3 brothers go awol OOHHH BOY OHH MY!

Oh, please stick around. You got our board owner to post, and we love that. :D

[Gaffer]

After wadding through all the superfluous explitives I have to say the people that go awol are right. These military hardliners that keep using the term "hard work" is a misnomer because most people dont have a gimmie attitude and are willing to put in lagit hard work for adaquate compensation, its the hazing that people dont like, did you know that you can be fired as a supervisor in the civilian world for treating people like drill sgts treat people, so using that logic the entire civilian population and any ex-military that are no longer serving are all a bunch or "pussys". Work place harrasment laws are passed by legislators who are elected by the majority which includes ex-military. There are so many inconsistancys in military hardliners arguments its not even funny, no one should have to tolerate "some guy in a round hat" hazing the shit out of you. Even people who do not go awol do not nessicarily want to be there some do it because they need the paycheck and dont have the nessicary skills to get a good paying civilian job. If I were in the air port and that happened to me I would probably call air port security and have that sorry officers ass arrested for verbal assult and then get on the next plane home. Military people talk so hard but when the shit hits the fan most of them are no different from anyone else, and shit hitting the fan is not some drill hazing a bunch of 18 yr olds.

You have no room to talk pussy. You would be the first to run when the shit hits the fan. That's why the recruits go through the hazing. To learn how to deal with things when the shit hits the fan. Boot camp/basic training is designed to weed out people like you and those three boys. There is no such thing as verbal assault. Like the boy your talking out your ass again. Not surprised you'd stick you nose in here. The almost a soldier has to come add his whine to the the boys cheese.

Go crawl back under your rock.

[rppearso]

I was in a fraternity and I was not hazed at all, we all supported each other to get thorugh a rigourus engineering program and have some fun at the same time. There were some other chapters that had military style hazing and they lost there charters and were shut down by there respective grand chapters. There are checks and ballances with fraternitys and the checkers have teeth.

Notice no one addressed any of my points other than to create more banter, these hardliners claim to post educated things and yet totally dodge all of my points, NOWHERE in the civilian work place is behavior like this accptable period. I got out using the proper channels and I completed basic training there was nothing dishonorable about what I did so the hardliners contradicted themselves again, I did just that because I did not want a bum security clearance if I want to get a scientist job later in life but just look at the flames they lump me right in there with someone who went AWOL (not that im saying I disagree with the reasons people go AWOL because the military does some F**ked up shit). Do you notice that your military experence, anyones military experence does not give them credibility amougst other hardliners unless they agree with the hardliners just look at John Kerry, he had honorable valid military service and people slander and liable him all the time when he was running, and GW basicly did the same thing as me and he is great and wonderful among the hardliners or at least they tolerate him by staying in the military, give me a break.

Bring it, im looking forward to a discussion that is beyond your whinny retoric; "oh your a pussy", thats what ignorant rednecks say. Dont claim to be an intellegent person when you make statements of the nature "oh your a pussy" or some other similiar statement "you cant hack it" or whatever. Lets see what you would do if I came in your home and started smacking your wife around but I claimed it was to toughen her up. You people are so full of shit its not even funny.

[rppearso]

"Still a retard I see."

What a mature rep comment from 82 Marine, is that an example of your "intelligent posts".

[Psychoblues]

Now, ain't that special?!?!!?!??!?!?!??




You're just happy because another wuss that can't handle the military feels like you do.

People that go AWOL are criminals, and are betraying the oath they took.

Piss up a wet rope, jimmy!!!!!!!!!! You know better than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pegwinn]

Those who go UA are by definition criminals. Likely they are also cowards.

I think lkamunen and rppearso are the same guy.

[Psychoblues]

They are also likely to be very principled and as American as you or me, peg.



Those who go UA are by definition criminals. Likely they are also cowards.

I think lkamunen and rppearso are the same guy.

Cowards? I think not. Cowards don't do AWOL. They do as they are told. Cowards resort to exemptions, excuses, waivers, etc. to cover up their fear of duty. Don't you agree?

[bullypulpit]

If they desert stateside, let 'em go. They'd probably try to save their own asses under fire thus endangering the lives of their squad mates. So better to have them run now than in the heat of combat. Save time and money by giving them a dishonorable discharge upon their desertion and leave them to spend the rest of their lives wallowing in the mire of their own cowardice.

Of course, if they desert under fire or in theater, the UCMJ has ways of dealing with that.

[Gaffer]

I was in a fraternity and I was not hazed at all, we all supported each other to get thorugh a rigourus engineering program and have some fun at the same time. There were some other chapters that had military style hazing and they lost there charters and were shut down by there respective grand chapters. There are checks and ballances with fraternitys and the checkers have teeth.

Notice no one addressed any of my points other than to create more banter, these hardliners claim to post educated things and yet totally dodge all of my points, NOWHERE in the civilian work place is behavior like this accptable period. I got out using the proper channels and I completed basic training there was nothing dishonorable about what I did so the hardliners contradicted themselves again, I did just that because I did not want a bum security clearance if I want to get a scientist job later in life but just look at the flames they lump me right in there with someone who went AWOL (not that im saying I disagree with the reasons people go AWOL because the military does some F**ked up shit). Do you notice that your military experence, anyones military experence does not give them credibility amougst other hardliners unless they agree with the hardliners just look at John Kerry, he had honorable valid military service and people slander and liable him all the time when he was running, and GW basicly did the same thing as me and he is great and wonderful among the hardliners or at least they tolerate him by staying in the military, give me a break.

Bring it, im looking forward to a discussion that is beyond your whinny retoric; "oh your a pussy", thats what ignorant rednecks say. Dont claim to be an intellegent person when you make statements of the nature "oh your a pussy" or some other similiar statement "you cant hack it" or whatever. Lets see what you would do if I came in your home and started smacking your wife around but I claimed it was to toughen her up. You people are so full of shit its not even funny.

The difference between you and Bush is that Bush completed his NG commitment. You opted out. As for kerry. he embellished and lied about his service. And testified before congress with more lies. He served, then turned on his own.

Basic training is not to haze and belittle people. It's to teach them to take orders unquestioningly. In a civilian job you have the right to refuse to do something that is dangerous or life threatening. That is not the case in the military. You have to do what your told immediately without question, because it could be a matter of life or death if you hesitate. In the military you are a GI (government issue) the same as a piece of equipment. It may not seem right, but it is necessary for the military to work.

The "hazing" as you call it, is specially designed to instill discipline. A dressing down from a drill sergeant makes you think twice about what you did wrong and you don't do it again. It's done in front of others to impress on them that they should not do it either. Hazing in college is just cruel fun for upper class men. The "hazing" of the military is done for a purpose and may mean the difference between life and death. It's to instill discipline, not for somebodies pleasure at having authority over others. You view it as the later.

[Nukeman]

I was in a fraternity and I was not hazed at all, we all supported each other to get thorugh a rigourus engineering program and have some fun at the same time. There were some other chapters that had military style hazing and they lost there charters and were shut down by there respective grand chapters. There are checks and ballances with fraternitys and the checkers have teeth.

Notice no one addressed any of my points other than to create more banter, these hardliners claim to post educated things and yet totally dodge all of my points, NOWHERE in the civilian work place is behavior like this accptable period. I got out using the proper channels and I completed basic training there was nothing dishonorable about what I did so the hardliners contradicted themselves again, I did just that because I did not want a bum security clearance if I want to get a scientist job later in life but just look at the flames they lump me right in there with someone who went AWOL (not that im saying I disagree with the reasons people go AWOL because the military does some F**ked up shit). Do you notice that your military experence, anyones military experence does not give them credibility amougst other hardliners unless they agree with the hardliners just look at John Kerry, he had honorable valid military service and people slander and liable him all the time when he was running, and GW basicly did the same thing as me and he is great and wonderful among the hardliners or at least they tolerate him by staying in the military, give me a break.

Bring it, im looking forward to a discussion that is beyond your whinny retoric; "oh your a pussy", thats what ignorant rednecks say. Dont claim to be an intellegent person when you make statements of the nature "oh your a pussy" or some other similiar statement "you cant hack it" or whatever. Lets see what you would do if I came in your home and started smacking your wife around but I claimed it was to toughen her up. You people are so full of shit its not even funny.
Obviously it never included a spelling or gammer class, did it????? You are by far the last person on this board to ever call into question ANYONES intelegence..... MORON........

[theHawk]

hey you cock winders the "hawk" and "gaffer" you guys are so fuckin typical!!
yeah I'm one of the brothers who ditched that joke of an outfit called the army! Next time you guys post a comment and think you know what your talking about get your fuckin sources straight. First thing, the guy who wrote the article on us was an old fart who put shit in there just for the publicity. Half that shit we didn't say. If you guys think your so damn tuff with your little postings why don;t you come to my house personally. The army was a fuckiin joke and anyone who backs that shit up is dumber then my shit floating in the toilet. The majority of people that join are hopeless little retards who don't have any other chioce in life, so they stick it through. And eventually get there dumb ass demolished by an IED some jew put under there vehicle. who would fight for some old man named bush anyway. Sounds to me like you guys are the chickenshits. There aint many people who have the balls to leave even when they really have to. Some people just got more important shit to do then listen to a bunch of niggers in a round hat scream at them all day, and burn there asses off in the hot sun!! Yeah one more thing, the army don't pay shit!! I could work at micdonalds and make more money in one year!!! Fuck you!!

:lol:
So in other words you are a slack-jawed faggot who couldn't handle a few hard weeks of boot camp. Doesn't surprise me in the least bit that you'd attack all they people that were man enough to go through with it, calling them dumbasses and such. And you're calling me a "chickenshit"? I went through basic training, it was a fucking joke because it was so easy. Of course we had the few faggots that couldn't hack it. Guess they couldn't handle being away from mommy and daddy for the first time in their lives, which is what I would guess your problem was. Hope you have fun working at McDonalds (its not spelled "micdonalds" you moron) and living out of your mother's basement.

Carry on dipshit.

[theHawk]

Cowards? I think not. Cowards don't do AWOL. They do as they are told. Cowards resort to exemptions, excuses, waivers, etc. to cover up their fear of duty. Don't you agree?

Spoken like a true shitbag liberal. Now people that make a commitment to the military and carry through with it are cowards because "they do as they are told"? Those who AWOL are cowards because they are running away from their responsibility. They are taking the easy way out because life the military is just too hard for them. Its easier to run home to mama and work at McDonald's than it is to take responsiblity for people's lives.

Pull your head out of your ass, PB.

[pegwinn]

They are also likely to be very principled and as American as you or me, peg.

Cowards? I think not. Cowards don't do AWOL. They do as they are told. Cowards resort to exemptions, excuses, waivers, etc. to cover up their fear of duty. Don't you agree?

No, they are criminals. Honor among thieves? Still thieves. Desertion is a cowards way out. Likely they simply realised that they were not man enough to do what they promised to do. And, likely they were not smart enough to try to play the system. When all else fails, run like hell.


If they desert stateside, let 'em go. They'd probably try to save their own asses under fire thus endangering the lives of their squad mates. So better to have them run now than in the heat of combat. Save time and money by giving them a dishonorable discharge upon their desertion and leave them to spend the rest of their lives wallowing in the mire of their own cowardice.

Of course, if they desert under fire or in theater, the UCMJ has ways of dealing with that.

I could agree with this if the DD came with a federal arrest warrant. At that point they have to live underground. But eventually they would come up on the radar. Then we could court martial them, lawfully shoot them, and dump the bodies with the rest of the garbage.

[82Marine89]

"Still a retard I see."

What a mature rep comment from 82 Marine, is that an example of your "intelligent posts".

At least I spelled everything correctly. "there" is something at a distance. Like, 'over there'. 'their' is possessive as in 'their fraternity'.

















Pussy.:fu:

[hjmick]

How convenient that one of the three brothers just happened to stumble upon this little corner of the political world. It's rare that the subject of a posted story shows up to share their side of the story. No small feat finding this place considering that a Google search of this thread title doesn't bring you to DP in the first twenty pages of results ( stopped looking at page 20).

Well, whatever, welcome aboard lkamunen, enjoy your stay.

[pegwinn]

How convenient that one of the three brothers just happened to stumble upon this little corner of the political world. It's rare that the subject of a posted story shows up to share their side of the story. No small feat finding this place considering that a Google search of this thread title doesn't bring you to DP in the first twenty pages of results ( stopped looking at page 20).

Well, whatever, welcome aboard lkamunen, enjoy your stay.

Yeah, I still think that it's an alter for RP.

[rppearso]

No, they are criminals. Honor among thieves? Still thieves. Desertion is a cowards way out. Likely they simply realised that they were not man enough to do what they promised to do. And, likely they were not smart enough to try to play the system. When all else fails, run like hell.



I could agree with this if the DD came with a federal arrest warrant. At that point they have to live underground. But eventually they would come up on the radar. Then we could court martial them, lawfully shoot them, and dump the bodies with the rest of the garbage.

If the US did this to its own citizens (regardless of afiliation) terrorist nations would not look so bad after all. How long do you think the american people would tolerate mass murder before they started shooting back at you. If I found out the US was starting death camps ("shooting people and throwing them out with the garbage" is what hitler did) most smart people would be leaving or revolting. Your sniffing glue if you think the the government (military or any other branch) can get away with mass murder. It appears we have another tim mcvay in our midst here. How about we incinerate there bodies pegwinn you phyco, you dont even deserve to live in this nation, I dont care what your job or affiliation is.

[Missileman]

If the US did this to its own citizens (regardless of afiliation) terrorist nations would not look so bad after all. How long do you think the american people would tolerate mass murder before they started shooting back at you. If I found out the US was starting death camps ("shooting people and throwing them out with the garbage" is what hitler did) most smart people would be leaving or revolting. Your sniffing glue if you think the the government (military or any other branch) can get away with mass murder. It appears we have another tim mcvay in our midst here. How about we incinerate there bodies pegwinn you phyco, you dont even deserve to live in this nation, I dont care what your job or affiliation is.

He didn't mention mass murder at all. He was of course talking about executing those convicted of a capital offense.

[rppearso]

He didn't mention mass murder at all. He was of course talking about executing those convicted of a capital offense.

Yea and about 5000 to 10000 or so people go UA each year, so what. You can make up whatever lame excuse you want, executing people for going AWOL is equivalent to executing people for littering, or maybe we can execute them for speaking out against the president. Just because a law is on the books does not make it right and its still mass murder, im sure when stallin executed people they violated some lame ass law it dident change the fact that it was mass murder. You dont want to be the guy answering to God why you executed thousands of people for little reason.

[Missileman]

Yea and about 5000 to 10000 or so people go UA each year, so what. You can make up whatever lame excuse you want, executing people for going AWOL is equivalent to executing people for littering, or maybe we can execute them for speaking out against the president. Just because a law is on the books does not make it right and its still mass murder, im sure when stallin executed people they violated some lame ass law it dident change the fact that it was mass murder. You dont want to be the guy answering to God why you executed thousands of people for little reason.

Shows how little you actually know about the military...AWOL is not a capital offense.

[pegwinn]

If the US did this to its own citizens (regardless of afiliation) terrorist nations would not look so bad after all.

Then by all means take yourself to the terrorist nation of your choice. Hell, I'll pass the ol ball cap and collect a buck or two for a one way ticket. BTW don't pick Jordan or Syria. They will cut your tongue out for blasphemy.


How long do you think the american people would tolerate mass murder before they started shooting back at you.

At Moi? Doubtful. Your lack of education is showing.


If I found out the US was starting death camps ("shooting people and throwing them out with the garbage" is what hitler did) most smart people would be leaving or revolting.

As usual you have no clue what you are talking about on so many levels.


Your sniffing glue if you think the the government (military or any other branch) can get away with mass murder.

Do you even have the good sense to be embarrassed by your own public stupidity? I doubt it. BTW you are funnier in your latest alter.


It appears we have another tim mcvay in our midst here.

Actually, McVeigh was an idiot. Had he been a true professional or a true zealot, he'd have never gone to trial.


How about we incinerate there bodies pegwinn you phyco, you dont even deserve to live in this nation, I dont care what your job or affiliation is.

Incineration is a good method for disposing of garbage. As to who deserves to live where..... I know you have a guilty conscience and all that. But it's ok, we make allowances for the weak. Think on that before you move to the terrorist nations you say look better. Over there, the weak will starve or end up as beggars. Of course you would not beg, they'd have already cut your tongue out.

[rppearso]

Then by all means take yourself to the terrorist nation of your choice. Hell, I'll pass the ol ball cap and collect a buck or two for a one way ticket. BTW don't pick Jordan or Syria. They will cut your tongue out for blasphemy.



At Moi? Doubtful. Your lack of education is showing.



As usual you have no clue what you are talking about on so many levels.



Do you even have the good sense to be embarrassed by your own public stupidity? I doubt it. BTW you are funnier in your latest alter.



Actually, McVeigh was an idiot. Had he been a true professional or a true zealot, he'd have never gone to trial.



Incineration is a good method for disposing of garbage. As to who deserves to live where..... I know you have a guilty conscience and all that. But it's ok, we make allowances for the weak. Think on that before you move to the terrorist nations you say look better. Over there, the weak will starve or end up as beggars. Of course you would not beg, they'd have already cut your tongue out.

Idiot, you dident address a single thing I said just as you have never done so in the past, you made some few good points but when it boils right down to the whole UA/AWOL issues or even getting out early you dont address anything. And you were the one who said you wanted to commit mass murder not me, terroist nations would suck to live in but my point was it would be better than living you pegwinns america where he would mass murder AWOL's and burn them in graves, maybe you could move on to the handicap and others with disabilities because they cant be drafted or do much physical work. You can sit there and be sarcastic all you want but you are a sick f**k.

[rppearso]

Shows how little you actually know about the military...AWOL is not a capital offense.

Desertion still is a capital offense wise guy. Which is a little different than AWOL but principally the same thing for which you can be executed.

[rppearso]

Wow aren't you the intelligent one..............here's a clue............... clean up your language........................ intelligent people can actually use words that are not classified as curse words.

I guess that would rule out most of the military hardliners on this forum and most NCO's. What are you a hypocryte, have you ever been to basic training that would have been nice if I could have said hey drill sgt could you please clean up your language and tune down the volume. F**k drill sgts they are low forms of life.

[Missileman]

Desertion still is a capital offense wise guy. Which is a little different than AWOL but principally the same thing for which you can be executed.

But, there is a difference between AWOL and desertion, and no matter how you try to combine the two, people are not executed for AWOL.

[Gaffer]

I guess that would rule out most of the military hardliners on this forum and most NCO's. What are you a hypocryte, have you ever been to basic training that would have been nice if I could have said hey drill sgt could you please clean up your language and tune down the volume. F**k drill sgts they are low forms of life.

Be honest dipshit. You hate anyone that might have authority over you. And you hate anyone that is smarter than you. You have a lot of people to hate here. And your senseless rants are proving my point.

When push comes to shove you will run away and name call from a distance.

[pegwinn]

Idiot, you dident address a single thing I said just as you have never done so in the past, you made some few good points but when it boils right down to the whole UA/AWOL issues or even getting out early you dont address anything. And you were the one who said you wanted to commit mass murder not me, terroist nations would suck to live in but my point was it would be better than living you pegwinns america where he would mass murder AWOL's and burn them in graves, maybe you could move on to the handicap and others with disabilities because they cant be drafted or do much physical work. You can sit there and be sarcastic all you want but you are a sick f**k.

Good Morning Dumbass. Not only did I address what you actually said, I demonstrated how idiotic you were being. I even gave you a small insight into the cultural difference between our country and the ones you apparently would prefer to live in.

Lemmie break it down for you in little words.

Desertion is a capital offense. I am all for shooting convicted deserters. Do some research engineer child. It takes a court martial to be convicted of desertion. So your mass murder claim is out the window.

Now, run along back to mommy.

[rppearso]

No, they are criminals. Honor among thieves? Still thieves. Desertion is a cowards way out. Likely they simply realised that they were not man enough to do what they promised to do. And, likely they were not smart enough to try to play the system. When all else fails, run like hell.



I could agree with this if the DD came with a federal arrest warrant. At that point they have to live underground. But eventually they would come up on the radar. Then we could court martial them, lawfully shoot them, and dump the bodies with the rest of the garbage.

You said it right here, why would you need a federal arrest warrent if they ran away during combat in a forign nation. Your post implys executing thousands of people who go AWOL, you skirt the line when you make posts like this and I dont take kindly to people who want to commit mass murder regardless of circumstance.

[pegwinn]

You said it right here, why would you need a federal arrest warrent if they ran away during combat in a forign nation.

Wrong again oh allegedly educated one. Obviously logic, military law, and the definition of desertion or its' elements of proof are beyond you.


Your post implys executing thousands of people who go AWOL, you skirt the line when you make posts like this

My post implies nothing at all except exactly what it said. Your posts OTOH prove that you are an idiot. I no longer give any credibility to your claim that you are an educated person. I believe that you are an overweight 18-21 y/o HS dropout or GED at best. I believe you failed miserably at recruit training. I believe you are likely living off your parents or soaking the taxpayers of your state by clutching at unemployment payoffs.


and I dont take kindly to people who want to commit mass murder regardless of circumstance.

Oh please lard ass... Where did you ever get the idea that your betters gave a shit about what you take kindly to or not? Run along boy. The adults have things to discuss.

[rppearso]

Wrong again oh allegedly educated one. Obviously logic, military law, and the definition of desertion or its' elements of proof are beyond you.



My post implies nothing at all except exactly what it said. Your posts OTOH prove that you are an idiot. I no longer give any credibility to your claim that you are an educated person. I believe that you are an overweight 18-21 y/o HS dropout or GED at best. I believe you failed miserably at recruit training. I believe you are likely living off your parents or soaking the taxpayers of your state by clutching at unemployment payoffs.



Oh please lard ass... Where did you ever get the idea that your betters gave a shit about what you take kindly to or not? Run along boy. The adults have things to discuss.

Once again you fail to address anything, you however did not fail to make a bunch of redneck comments typical of an idiot and tryed to double talk your way out of what you said.

[pegwinn]

Wrong again oh allegedly educated one. Obviously logic, military law, and the definition of desertion or its' elements of proof are beyond you.



My post implies nothing at all except exactly what it said. Your posts OTOH prove that you are an idiot. I no longer give any credibility to your claim that you are an educated person. I believe that you are an overweight 18-21 y/o HS dropout or GED at best. I believe you failed miserably at recruit training. I believe you are likely living off your parents or soaking the taxpayers of your state by clutching at unemployment payoffs.



Oh please lard ass... Where did you ever get the idea that your betters gave a shit about what you take kindly to or not? Run along boy. The adults have things to discuss.


Once again you fail to address anything, you however did not fail to make a bunch of redneck comments typical of an idiot and tryed to double talk your way out of what you said.

When you can discuss the substance (that would be in red above for the hs dropout wannabe engineers) of what I said, come on back boy. Until then...

Tell it to the Marines.......

Oh wait, you did, and they didn't buy it.

[rppearso]

When you can discuss the substance (that would be in red above for the hs dropout wannabe engineers) of what I said, come on back boy. Until then...

Tell it to the Marines.......

Oh wait, you did, and they didn't buy it.

You never discuss substance you always dodge the key issues with some lame ass comment like "I see you fail to understand again" whatever. The substance issues are simple, the military treats people like shit and used the contract you signed as intimidation to continue to subject yourself to further abuse, I dont care how you want to chocolate coat it and dip it in sprinkles its still a pile of shit and then you top it off with mass murder, I read between the lines, you would like nothing more than to execute ever AWOL not just the 0 people that fall into a very narrow catagory of "desertion" since no one has been executed for "desertion" since WW2. The military is deceptive and decietfull and there is a total lack of respecting someone as a human being. Maybe when you can drop the hard talk about executing AWOL's and actually address the issues it would be a good debate, when you make some lame ass comment to the tune of you signed boy no yous gonna go you sound like a red neck idiot.

[pegwinn]

You never discuss substance you always dodge the key issues with some lame ass comment like "I see you fail to understand again" whatever. Reading is fundamental illiterate one. So far you have posted nothing worth serious discussion. And since you cowered in fear in a debate challenge, I am just waiting to see if you grow some hair.

The substance issues are simple, the military treats people like shit and used the contract you signed as intimidation to continue to subject yourself to further abuse, I dont care how you want to chocolate coat it and dip it in sprinkles its still a pile of shit and then you top it off with mass murder, I read between the lines, you would like nothing more than to execute ever AWOL not just the 0 people that fall into a very narrow catagory of "desertion" since no one has been executed for "desertion" since WW2. I see. You can't read. Reading between the lines means you are imagining shit. Try responding intelligently to what was actually said. Because quite frankly, your interpretation is worth as much as a politicians promise. For starters, if you fail to honor your end of the contract how can you expect anything from the other end? One day if you actually become an engineer wouldn't you like your employer to honor his word. Face it young man, if your word is no good, then you are no good. Now, go away and study the elements of proof required to differentiate UA/AWOL from desertion. Come back when you can write intelligently.

The military is deceptive and decietfull and there is a total lack of respecting someone as a human being. Really? Based on how many years of experience? Maybe when you can drop the hard talk about executing AWOL's Source? and actually address the issues I tried that, and you didn't wanna play. it would be a good debate, when you make some lame ass comment to the tune of you signed boy no yous gonna go you sound like a red neck idiot. LOL, that is rich. Son, you aint even dry behind the ears yet.

:laugh2:

[rppearso]

:laugh2:

:lame2:

[Psychoblues]

Did anyone ever give an instants thought as to the ideolgy of those 3 brothers AWOL in Minnesota?

[82Marine89]

Did anyone ever give an instants thought as to the ideolgy of those 3 brothers AWOL in Minnesota?

Fuck those chicken shit bastards.

[Psychoblues]

Did you actually mean "Fuck Those Americans"?




Fuck those chicken shit bastards.

Or were you just kidding?

[82Marine89]

Did you actually mean "Fuck Those Americans"?

Or were you just kidding?

I said what I meant. Fuck those chicken shit bastards.

[Psychoblues]

Are you referring to the 80% of Americans that oppose the war or just those that realize that their CIC has mislead them?



I said what I meant. Fuck those chicken shit bastards.

Please explain your inane and insane remarks. Thank You.

[82Marine89]

Are you referring to the 80% of Americans that oppose the war or just those that realize that their CIC has mislead them?

Please explain your inane and insane remarks. Thank You.

Come on Psychoblewsomeguy. I'm talking about three chicken shit bastards. No more no less. The three pussies referenced in this article.

[Psychoblues]

Come on simpleass jarhead, there are others to which you refer or are you so stupid as to think the brothers were not substantiated in their obvious disagreement?



Come on Psychoblewsomeguy. I'm talking about three chicken shit bastards. No more no less. The three pussies referenced in this article.

Mayby you need to change your religion and move on to the middle east where your kind of mindless appreciation of the PTB, Powers That Be, is so reverred and appreciated.

[dread]

Come on simpleass jarhead, there are others to which you refer or are you so stupid as to think the brothers were not substantiated in their obvious disagreement?




Mayby you need to change your religion and move on to the middle east where your kind of mindless appreciation of the PTB, Powers That Be, is so reverred and appreciated.




No they weren't substantiated. This is the new military. Not like when your old carcass was in. If they wanted out they could have gotten out. But they DID chickenshit out. I dont care WHAT their reasoning.

[Psychoblues]

So collective reasoning is beyond your comprehension?



No they weren't substantiated. This is the new military. Not like when your old carcass was in. If they wanted out they could have gotten out. But they DID chickenshit out. I dont care WHAT their reasoning.

Can you explain it beyond being afraid of it's implications? If you don't respond can I assume you are chickenshit?

[82Marine89]

So collective reasoning is beyond your comprehension?

Can you explain it beyond being afraid of it's implications? If you don't respond can I assume you are chickenshit?

Yo, Psychoblows the word chicken shit is reserved for these three yellow bastards and anyone else that runs away from their commitment. Now before you respond, put down the bottle and back away from the bong.

[dread]

So collective reasoning is beyond your comprehension?




Can you explain it beyond being afraid of it's implications? If you don't respond can I assume you are chickenshit?




I know what you are implying. But that dog dont hunt.

Kids are raised today to be wussy PERIOD!

My daughter went thru boot camp and it was a breeze for her? Why? Because I set her up for success. Many kids today cant even complete the PT. Hell most kids today cant do the basic functions of say cooking a meal and sewing a button what with our throw away society. And then there is the non competative assertations of parents telling them "well junior...Just do your best. winning isnt everything." Thus setting them up for failure because if one gives just an ounce of so called "trying" then that is good enough for them.


So to equate that with say poor quality of recuits is EXTREMELY disingenuous. These boys have NOTHING to do with your political theories.

[Psychoblues]

So you equate your own failures as aspirations for a better America?



I know what you are implying. But that dog dont hunt.

Kids are raised today to be wussy PERIOD!

My daughter went thru boot camp and it was a breeze for her? Why? Because I set her up for success. Many kids today cant even complete the PT. Hell most kids today cant do the basic functions of say cooking a meal and sewing a button what with our throw away society. And then there is the non competative assertations of parents telling them "well junior...Just do your best. winning isnt everything." Thus setting them up for failure because if one gives just an ounce of so called "trying" then that is good enough for them.


So to equate that with say poor quality of recuits is EXTREMELY disingenuous. These boys have NOTHING to do with your political theories.

Those boys have genuine objections for which this particular board refuses to credibly debate and you want to excuse their ignorance as simply an example of your own?

[actsnoblemartin]

classless, and cheap. I expect better of you


So you equate your own failures as aspirations for a better America?

Those boys have genuine objections for which this particular board refuses to credibly debate and you want to excuse their ignorance as simply an example of your own?

you dont join a team let alone the u.s. military without knowing full well, you might have to go to war, its not a democracy, its not up for debate, you do youre job, anyone with half a brain knows that, just cause you hate the war, ok, not like the war, doesnt mean you should condome cowardess and bad behaviour

[Psychoblues]

You are not qualified to speak on the behalf of my national service, martin.




classless, and cheap. I expect better of you



you dont join a team let alone the u.s. military without knowing full well, you might have to go to war, its not a democracy, its not up for debate, you do youre job, anyone with half a brain knows that, just cause you hate the war, ok, not like the war, doesnt mean you should condome cowardess and bad behaviour

Or anyone else's. Give it a rest, comrade. Your messages from above have not all been for your benefit or at all truthful.

[actsnoblemartin]

with all due respect, who the fuck said anything your national service, I was takling about them and in general, but believe me, if i wanted to speak on behalf of your national service, i would say PSYCHO's national service and only people in the military have a right to have an opinion

dude, im sorry but your full of shit on this one

and i love how you keep calling me names, and a liar.

Real friends really treat each other that way (sarcasm)



So you equate your own failures as aspirations for a better America?




Those boys have genuine objections for which this particular board refuses to credibly debate and you want to excuse their ignorance as simply an example of your own?


You are not qualified to speak on the behalf of my national service, martin.





Or anyone else's. Give it a rest, comrade. Your messages from above have not all been for your benefit or at all truthful.

[Missileman]

Those boys have genuine objections for which this particular board refuses to credibly debate and you want to excuse their ignorance as simply an example of your own?

No, those boys actions were genuinely objectionable. Noone dragged them down to the recruiters office and made them sign up. Noone drafted them. They were victims of poor parenting and their own lack of knowledge of reality. When the REAL military turned out to be something less enjoyable than "Call of Duty 4" or "Tom Clancy's: Splinter Cell" and involved WORK, they elected to dishonor their contract. The real pity is that those 3 boys obviously could have benefited more from military training than most young people.

[theHawk]

No, those boys actions were genuinely objectionable. Noone dragged them down to the recruiters office and made them sign up. Noone drafted them. They were victims of poor parenting and their own lack of knowledge of reality. When the REAL military turned out to be something less enjoyable than "Call of Duty 4" or "Tom Clancy's: Splinter Cell" and involved WORK, they elected to dishonor their contract. The real pity is that those 3 boys obviously could have benefited more from military training than most young people.

No pity. Boot camp is meant to weed out the types like the these three.

[dread]

So you equate your own failures as aspirations for a better America?




Those boys have genuine objections for which this particular board refuses to credibly debate and you want to excuse their ignorance as simply an example of your own?




No they did NOT have genuine objections. There is NOTHING to debate.

[82Marine89]

You are not qualified to speak on the behalf of my national service, martin.

Or anyone else's. Give it a rest, comrade. Your messages from above have not all been for your benefit or at all truthful.

I am and I'm questioning it.

[rppearso]

No pity. Boot camp is meant to weed out the types like the these three.

Yet boot camp really does not weed out anyone, you really need to stop making that claim because very few people are "weeded out" at boot camp. Most people that are "weeded out" are on medical. If boot camp "weeded people out" I would have been on a plane at about week 4 to 6 with an ELS but because I could pass my PT test and aim a rifle they could not fail me even though I was completely ate up. They dident even weed me out in OCS I had to quit.

[82Marine89]

Yet boot camp really does not weed out anyone, you really need to stop making that claim because very few people are "weeded out" at boot camp. Most people that are "weeded out" are on medical. If boot camp "weeded people out" I would have been on a plane at about week 4 to 6 with an ELS but because I could pass my PT test and aim a rifle they could not fail me even though I was completely ate up. They dident even weed me out in OCS I had to quit.

You're also a pussy.

[Mr. P]

Yet boot camp really does not weed out anyone, you really need to stop making that claim because very few people are "weeded out" at boot camp. Most people that are "weeded out" are on medical. If boot camp "weeded people out" I would have been on a plane at about week 4 to 6 with an ELS but because I could pass my PT test and aim a rifle they could not fail me even though I was completely ate up. They dident even weed me out in OCS I had to quit.

See, it did work.