Palestinian Mass Grave uncovered in Tel Aviv

[jafar00]

This is a grisly reminder of the terrorism suffered at the hands of Jewish gangs as Israel was born out of fire and the blood of Palestinians.
The photo I put below is of the lucky ones who managed to find a boat as they were driven into the sea.

Another reason why they fight.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Picture1252.jpg


Six mass graves features the remains of dozens of Palestinians killed during the Israeli-Arab war of 1948, when the Jewish state was founded have been uncovered in the Jaffa district of Tel Aviv.

An official at the Muslim cemetery there told AFP that the grisly find happened on Wednesday when ground subsided as builders carried out renovation work.
In 1948 Jaffa was a Palestinian town but there was an exodus of most of its Arab population when it fell to the fledgling Israeli army and right-wing Jewish militias.


Researcher and historian Mahmoud Obeid, a Jaffa resident, told As-Safri newspaper: 'We discovered six mass graves, two of which we dug up. Our estimate is that they contain around 200 bodies, with an unknown additional number in the other graves.

'The remains belong to people of different ages, including women, children and the elderly, some of which bear signs of violence.'

A local fisherman Atar Zeinab, 80, said that as a teenager during the final months of fighting in 1948 he helped to collect the Arab dead in the area south of Jaffa.
They were then brought for a quick burial in the cemetery, the area’s main graveyard.


'I carried to the cemetery 60 bodies during a period of three or four months,' he told AFP. 'We used to find the people in the street and most of the time we didn’t know who they were.'
He said that the danger of being hit by flying bullets or grenade fragments was such that bodies were dumped one on top of the other in existing family crypts in the cemetery, contrary to Muslim custom.
'We carried them early in the morning or in the night. We put women, children and men in the same place... nobody prayed for these people.
In 1950 Jaffa was incorporated into Tel Aviv, and was renamed Tel Aviv-Jaffa. It now a mixed Arab and Jewish population.


Around 760,000 Palestinians fled or were forced from their homes in the Israeli-Arab war of 1948.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334205/Mass-grave-uncovered-containing-dozens-Palestinians-killed-1948-war-founded-Israel.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[BillyBob]

All Palestinians should be executed and Israel reclaim its land.

[fj1200]

Umm.

[jimnyc]

Another reason why they fight.

I don't really see them fighting in recent years, only terror attacks. But anyway, they REFUSE to come to the table for peace negotiations. They REFUSE any land negotiations. They want nothing but "jew blood" and nothing less. I won't speak for 1948, wasn't around then... But all they are going to accomplish by becoming a terrorist state is extinction. They need to be reasonable and negotiate, or Israel will stay as large as it is and eventually take over Palestine.

I looked around and was going to post some atrocities committed by Palestine in the past 60 years, but I have a sneaky suspicion that it won't accomplish anything by posting so many pictures.

Suffice to say, they will both need to work towards peace and a deal, or one will lose and disappear, and I think we all know who will lose out on that one.

[BillyBob]

I don't really see them fighting in recent years, only terror attacks. But anyway, they REFUSE to come to the table for peace negotiations. They REFUSE any land negotiations. They want nothing but "jew blood" and nothing less. I won't speak for 1948, wasn't around then... But all they are going to accomplish by becoming a terrorist state is extinction. They need to be reasonable and negotiate, or Israel will stay as large as it is and eventually take over Palestine.

I looked around and was going to post some atrocities committed by Palestine in the past 60 years, but I have a sneaky suspicion that it won't accomplish anything by posting so many pictures.

Suffice to say, they will both need to work towards peace and a deal, or one will lose and disappear, and I think we all know who will lose out on that one.


Clinton and Ehud Barak offered Arafat pretty much everything he asked for and Arafat walked away proving that the palestinians don't want Peace.


In a statement extending his condolences for Arafat's death, Clinton said he regretted that in 2000 Arafat had "missed the opportunity" to create a Palestinian nation, adding that he prayed "for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace."
Clinton made his final move in December 2000 and January 2001 -- in the last weeks of his presidency -- to bring together Arafat and the Israeli prime minister of the time, Ehud Barak.
The two had already held marathon talks at the US presidential retreat of Camp David in July of 2000.
Under proposals that Clinton persuaded Israel to broadly accept, 94-96 percent of West Bank would be given to the Palestinians along with some land from Israel.
Israeli forces would have withdrawn from Palestinian territories over three years with an international force put in place and sovereignty over Jerusalem would have been divided. Israel would have kept enough land for 80 percent of its settlers and other security rights.


http://www.spacewar.com/2004/041111063236.cwedy0ge.html

[Voted4Reagan]

The Arabs attacked first...

in 1948 there were acceptable levels of Collateral Damage...

Sorry Jafar... If you start a war you have to be prepared for the consequences of war.

Ben Gurion offered peace and cooperation between Arabs and Israelis.

The day after Israel was founded the Arab Armies attacked.

Do I have to quote his speech from 1947 to you again?

Do you deny that this speech was made fully almost a year before Israeli independence?

Ben Gurion Speech before the Jewish Yishuv Assembly - 1947

There are basic facts in the Arab realm also, not only transient ones, and understanding of them should blow away our pessimism. They are the historical needs of the Arabs and of their States. A people's needs are not always articulate, its spokesmen may not always be concerned for them, but they cannot be stifled for long, eventually they force their swelling way out into expression and satisfaction.


History has been harsh to us, perhaps, setting burdensome conditions which complicate our homecoming; but it has set conditions too which, in the final accounting, will not only allow but will compel Arab and Jew to work together, because they need and complement each other. Just two examples. Egypt is the biggest country in the Arab world and in the Arab League. More than three-quarters of its population are fellahin with an average monthly income of a pound sterling; nine-tenths of the fellahin are disease-ridden, all but five percent illiterate. You cannot go on forever feeding this people on anti-Jewish incitement.


Iraq is thrice as large as Britain; of its 450,000 square kilometers only 67,000 are tilled; after twenty-five years of independence, 85 percent of the population are illiterate, half are infected and there is one doctor for every 8,500 persons. And this is among the richest countries in the world, watered by two rivers - and what rivers! An anti-Jewish diet will not do indefinitely in Iraq either.


I will not discuss ostensibly independent Trans-Jordan, its poverty and neglect many of us have visited it and know.


A final fact. From our work in Palestine, from the society we are constructing, our economy and science, our culture and humanity, our social and fiscal order, and from no other source, must enlightenment come to our neighbors, for if they do not learn from us and labor with us, it is with strangers, potent and tyrannous, that they will find themselves partnered.


They in turn have much to give us, they are blessed with what we lack. Great territories, ample for themselves and their children's children, even if they are far more prolific than they are today. We do not covet their expanses nor will we penetrate them - for we shall fight to end Diaspora in Arab lands as fiercely as we fought to end it in Europe, we want to be assembled wholly in our own Land. But if this region is to expand to the full, there must be reciprocity, there can be mutual aid - economic, political and cultural - between Jew and Arab. That is the necessity which will prevail, and the daily fulminations of their leaders should not alarm us unduly - they do not echo the real interests of the Arab peoples.


Come what may, we will not surrender our right to free Aliyah, to rebuild our shattered Homeland, to claim statehood. If we are attacked, we will fight back. But we will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a Cupertino gainful to both. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals.

[Gaffer]

This is a grisly reminder of the terrorism suffered at the hands of Jewish gangs as Israel was born out of fire and the blood of Palestinians.
The photo I put below is of the lucky ones who managed to find a boat as they were driven into the sea.

Another reason why they fight.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Picture1252.jpg


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334205/Mass-grave-uncovered-containing-dozens-Palestinians-killed-1948-war-founded-Israel.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I see a picture of crowds of people on a dock and some boats with a few people in them. Nothing identifies where the picture was taken. A lot of the people are just standing around or relaxing on the dock. I just don't see the horror there that you do.

Once again you are trying to twist the facts about the birth of Israel. Yes it was born of blood and death. But that is because the arabs attacked Isarel the day it became a country. They haven't stopped since. And you are one of the they.

[aboutime]

I see a picture of crowds of people on a dock and some boats with a few people in them. Nothing identifies where the picture was taken. A lot of the people are just standing around or relaxing on the dock. I just don't see the horror there that you do.

Once again you are trying to twist the facts about the birth of Israel. Yes it was born of blood and death. But that is because the arabs attacked Isarel the day it became a country. They haven't stopped since. And you are one of the they.


Gaffer. Jafar is only doing more of what he is known for doing so often. As in, making another excuse to Defend those Poor, Hamas controlled Palestinians who have never really been serious about Peace.
If we need to see proof. Just remember this Coward, Thief, and Liar.....5089

[logroller]

The dead are sometimes not given proper burials in an active war zone--ZOIKS!!! Atleast they weren't wired with IEDs or dragged through the streets to the cheers of crowds. Perhaps they should have been given a proper ceremony with a rabbi giving a prayer that condemns them as less than the God's chosen people.

[jimnyc]

Imagine that, mass burials of the dead. Here is how people in Palestine treat the enemy:

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/9664/gazaspye1353434926612.jpg

[red states rule]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qUFDMUpk9jE/TESVaclSvwI/AAAAAAAAkYI/OUzBRM4f1Bw/s1600/2009-01-08-hamas-firing-rockets-in-gaza-600.jpg

[aboutime]

Imagine that, mass burials of the dead. Here is how people in Palestine treat the enemy:

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/9664/gazaspye1353434926612.jpg


jimnyc: That photo above is what jafar would, and has called a Moment of Peace, and Triumph over Hatred for anyone who doesn't look, or think like Jafar, Hamas, or Hezbola.
P.S. By the way. That photo had to be PHOTOSHOPPED....Muslim, and Islamic people would never do such a thing! :)

[jafar00]

Imagine that, mass burials of the dead. Here is how people in Palestine treat the enemy:

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/9664/gazaspye1353434926612.jpg

And, that was haram. Corpse desecration is a sin.

[aboutime]

And, that was haram. Corpse desecration is a sin.


Anyone happen to notice how jafar DID NOT DENY what I stated in my previous post?????

That is what Semantics, Rhetoric, and practiced Lies will always get you.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_W ar


After the Partition vote, Arab leaders threatened the Jewish population of Palestine. They spoke of "driving the Jews into the sea" and ridding Palestine "of the Zionist Plague".[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_W ar#cite_note-morris2008_396-36)

Jahil can't even be original in his fake news.

[Marcus Aurelius]

This is a grisly reminder of the terrorism suffered at the hands of Jewish gangs as Israel was born out of fire and the blood of Palestinians.
The photo I put below is of the lucky ones who managed to find a boat as they were driven into the sea.

Another reason why they fight.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Picture1252.jpg


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334205/Mass-grave-uncovered-containing-dozens-Palestinians-killed-1948-war-founded-Israel.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

proof Jahil is a fucking liar.

Here is the link to the source page for the photo... as well as the caption...

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Picture1253.html


Jaffa - يافا : The Exodus Of Jaffa's Residents Via Boats, May-1948. Click here (http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Acre/Picture13753.html) to see another unique picture for the people of Acre (Akka) as they were being pushed into the see. Ironically, Israelis claim that Palestinians are trying to commit this crime! Click on image to see a larger picture.


And the supposed picture of people being pushed into the sea?

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Acre/Picture13752.jpg

please... show me someone here being pushed into the sea.

Dumb ass liar.

[red states rule]

And, that was haram. Corpse desecration is a sin.

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/welfare-terrorism.jpg

[jimnyc]

proof Jahil is a fucking liar.

Here is the link to the source page for the photo... as well as the caption...

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Picture1253.html


Good catch. I just looked at the source and see the same. A bit of an embellishment in order to blame Israel for all their woes, I suppose. I wonder if lying or embellishing is considered 'haram'?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Good catch. I just looked at the source and see the same. A bit of an embellishment in order to blame Israel for all their woes, I suppose. I wonder if lying or embellishing is considered 'haram'?

thanks. Neither picture shows anything remotely like people 'being pushed into the sea'.T

hen there was this as well.....



After the Partition vote, Arab leaders threatened the Jewish population of Palestine. They spoke of "driving the Jews into the sea" and ridding Palestine "of the Zionist Plague".[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_W ar#cite_note-morris2008_396-36)

So Jahil simply took what the Arabs threatened to do to the Jews and reversed it, to clear his own conscience.

[Gaffer]

thanks. Neither picture shows anything remotely like people 'being pushed into the sea'.T

hen there was this as well.....




So Jahil simply took what the Arabs threatened to do to the Jews and reversed it, to clear his own conscience.

That's exactly what he's done. But it's not his conscience he's concerned about. It's spreading the muzzy propaganda. He's a brotherhood mouth piece.

[jafar00]

Good catch. I just looked at the source and see the same. A bit of an embellishment in order to blame Israel for all their woes, I suppose. I wonder if lying or embellishing is considered 'haram'?

I missed the part where I lied or embellished. Care to lend a hand?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I missed the part where I lied or embellished. Care to lend a hand?

we missed the part where anyone was driven into the sea, like the Arabs claimed they'd do to the jews, and like YOU said the pictures proved, dumb ass

[Voted4Reagan]

Maybe the part where the picture you posted wasnt even in JAFFA but in ACRE?

Misrepresenting the facts or distorting them makes them a fallacy.

[jimnyc]

I missed the part where I lied or embellished. Care to lend a hand?

Easy, you say they were driven into the sea. Unless you're blind, the picture shows them NOT being pushed/driven, but getting into boats. Then the very site you got it from tells the story differently than you did. "Pushed" if you will? That's a clear embellishment, unless of course they were being pushed, which they weren't.

Oh, and the location, as V4R pointed out, but perhaps that could be blamed on ignorance, or rushing to post something without bothering to verify? Blind hatred does that. That same hatred by Hamas is why they will never negotiate - and while the Palestinians are perpetually getting the snot kicked out of them, and why if they continue on this path they will eventually disappear while Israel sits back with a coffee.

[Voted4Reagan]

I missed the part where I lied or embellished. Care to lend a hand?

Here you go Jafar... a picture of the OLD CLOCK TOWER in ACRE



http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/acre-clock-tower--israel-john-a-shiron.jpg

[Marcus Aurelius]

Here you go Jafar... a picture of the OLD CLOCK TOWER in ACRE



http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/acre-clock-tower--israel-john-a-shiron.jpg

Look at the clock towers again. Two different towers. Going bottom to top, Acre has a single window, then two windows, then the clock... Jaffa has 2 windows, then 2 windows, then the clock.

Unless they rebuilt the bottom window area for some reason, his lie is solely that they were pictures of people driven into the sea.

Unless, of course, the bottom window level alternates 2 windows on face, then a single window, then 2 windows, then a single window... in which case he's still a fucking liar on that point too.

[Voted4Reagan]

Look at the clock towers again. Two different towers. Going bottom to top, Acre has a single window, then two windows, then the clock... Jaffa has 2 windows, then 2 windows, then the clock.

Unless they rebuilt the bottom window area for some reason, his lie is solely that they were pictures of people driven into the sea.

Unless, of course, the bottom window level alternates 2 windows on face, then a single window, then 2 windows, then a single window... in which case he's still a fucking liar on that point too.

Another Side of the Building Marcus...

http://michaelminn.net/israel/photos/2011-05-24_12-26-36_thumbnail.jpg

[jimnyc]

Not a lie. Not an embellishment. Not real Muslims. Must be cool to post stories and reply to others, when you can just dismiss anything you don't agree with. Remember this next time Jafar complains about guns in America. Those who kill with guns are obviously not true Americans, so we have a perfect record intact.

I bet if we made a list of the shithead Muslims who have done evil deeds, and posted here, only for us to be told they are not a "real Muslim", that list would go on for pages and pages and pages. I mean, Iran alone, how many fake Muslims are there? Almost 80 million fake Muslims? Then we have fakes in Afghanistan who call themselves Muslim, the same in Saudi Arabia and of course all the terrorists who cite verses from the Quran and go to mosques and are proven Muslims, are really not Muslims.

The denial of so much is laughable, or sickening, not sure which.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=643602#post643602)
Look at the clock towers again. Two different towers. Going bottom to top, Acre has a single window, then two windows, then the clock... Jaffa has 2 windows, then 2 windows, then the clock.

Unless they rebuilt the bottom window area for some reason, his lie is solely that they were pictures of people driven into the sea.

Unless, of course, the bottom window level alternates 2 windows on face, then a single window, then 2 windows, then a single window... in which case he's still a fucking liar on that point too.





Another Side of the Building Marcus...

http://michaelminn.net/israel/photos/2011-05-24_12-26-36_thumbnail.jpg

OK... confused now. This and your other pic would indicate that at the level I mentioned, there are four building faces set with 2 windows, 2 windows, 2 windows, and 1 window.

???

[Marcus Aurelius]

Interesting... the tower is apparently set up with 3 faces having double windows at that level, and the rear face having only a single window.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Acre_clock_tower

Architecturally, I personally find that a little odd, but hey, I didn't build the thing.

[Voted4Reagan]

OK... confused now. This and your other pic would indicate that at the level I mentioned, there are four building faces set with 2 windows, 2 windows, 2 windows, and 1 window.

???

That is correct.... 3 sides with 2 windows and one side with one...

It is the same building as in Jafar's Pic.

This is the JAFFA Clock Tower.... totally different.http://www.inisrael.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/jaffa_clock_tower-735x550.jpg

[Marcus Aurelius]

That is correct.... 3 sides with 2 windows and one side with one...

It is the same building as in Jafar's Pic.

This is the JAFFA Clock Tower.... totally different.http://www.inisrael.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/jaffa_clock_tower-735x550.jpg

yup. already posted a linkto a site with multiple angles, thanks.

And again, Jahil is proven to be a liar.

[aboutime]

yup. already posted a linkto a site with multiple angles, thanks.

And again, Jahil is proven to be a liar.


Jafar reminds me of Jesse Jackson when he first learned to use the word "DISENFRANCHISE" to fool the people he claims to help.

But Jafar's new word is "EMBELLISHMENT". This week.

Just previews of "Coming Attractions".

Next week...another word to Impress...jafar.

[jafar00]

Maybe the part where the picture you posted wasnt even in JAFFA but in ACRE?

Misrepresenting the facts or distorting them makes them a fallacy.

The source says it is of Jaffa. There is another link showing another photo for Akka. You can show as many recent photos as you like but I'm sure after 65 years of occupation, the area is very different to what it once was.

[Voted4Reagan]

The source says it is of Jaffa. There is another link showing another photo for Akka. You can show as many recent photos as you like but I'm sure after 65 years of occupation, the area is very different to what it once was.

Actually it looks almost identical.

Google Earth is my friend.

Look up the KHAN AL-UMDAM in Acre... not AKKA...

5096

[jimnyc]

Actually it looks almost identical.

Google Earth is my friend.

Look up the KHAN AL-UMDAM in Acre... not AKKA...

5096

I don't see guys running around screaming "ALLAH AKBAR" and blowing up innocent people. No way that is any muslim territory!

Anyway, nice to see that "some people" will read anything and then come here and report it as fact - when it's not. Sure does 'splain a lot! :lol:

[Marcus Aurelius]

jahil needs to stop taking anything from anti-Israeli hate sites as Gospel, and learn to do a little research on his own. He'd look less stupid if he did.

I'm just saying...

[Voted4Reagan]

Like many before him, JAFAR fell for the Pan-Arab Nationalist Propaganda that has been rampant in the middle east since the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): محمد أمين الحسيني‎, sold out to Hitler and the Nazis back in the 1930's.

Jafar.... you need to call the Article a HOAX and decry the deception it tries to portray...

The Khan Al-Umdan was easy to spot. (WIKI)


Being one of four Khans in Acre, Khan al-Umdan was built in 1784 on the place of the Royal Customs house of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem). Due to its plethora of columns the khan was named Khan al-Umdan which means "Inn of the Columns" or "Caravanserai of Pillars".[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Vilnay-2) It incorporates forty columns made of granite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite) that were taken from Caesarea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea), Atlit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlit) and the ruins of Crusader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) monuments in Acre itself.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)



Khan al-Umdan (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): خان العمدان‎: "Caravanserai of the Pillars" or "Inn of the Columns", also known as Khán-i-'Avámid) is the largest and best preserved khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravanserai) in Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Vilnay-2) Located in the Old City of Acre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akko), it is one of the prominent projects constructed during the rule of Ahmed Jezzar Pasha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezzar_Pasha) in the Ottoman era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire).

Due to its proximity to the port, Khan al-Umdan has throughout its history been an important trading spot. Merchants arriving at Acre used the khan as a warehouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse) while the second floor functioned as a hostel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostel).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Eye-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Flickr-4) Camel caravans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_train) once brought produce and grain from Galilean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee) villages to the city's markets and port.[5]

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Dumperp7-5)

The khan later gained importance to the Bahá'í Faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith) (as the Khán-i-'Avámid) as it was the site where Baha'ullah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baha%27ullah) used to receive guests, and later the site for a Bahá'í school.


In 1906 a clock tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_tower) was added adjacent to the main entrance to the khan to commemorate the silver jubilee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_jubilee) of the rule of Ottoman sultan Abd al-Hamid II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Hamid_II). It is similar to the Jaffa Clock Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Clock_Tower), a building dedicated to the same purpose. [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)
Modern era

In 2001 Khan al-Umdan, together with the rest of Acre's old city, was designated as a world heritage site (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_heritage_site).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Unesco-6) In 2004 Khan al-Umdan (Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language): ח'אן אל עומדאן‎) was featured on a stamp of Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_Israel) worth 1.3 sheqels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_New_Sheqel).[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-7) Nowadays, the khan is a major tourist attraction open all hours of the day and also used as an open air stage during the festivals in the city, such as the theater festival of Acre during the month of October.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Trek-8)

[Marcus Aurelius]

Like many before him, JAFAR fell for the Pan-Arab Nationalist Propaganda that has been rampant in the middle east since the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): محمد أمين الحسيني‎, sold out to Hitler and the Nazis back in the 1930's.

Jafar.... you need to call the Article a HOAX and decry the deception it tries to portray...

The Khan Al-Umdan was easy to spot. (WIKI)


Being one of four Khans in Acre, Khan al-Umdan was built in 1784 on the place of the Royal Customs house of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem). Due to its plethora of columns the khan was named Khan al-Umdan which means "Inn of the Columns" or "Caravanserai of Pillars".[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Vilnay-2) It incorporates forty columns made of granite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite) that were taken from Caesarea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea), Atlit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlit) and the ruins of Crusader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) monuments in Acre itself.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)



Khan al-Umdan (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): خان العمدان‎: "Caravanserai of the Pillars" or "Inn of the Columns", also known as Khán-i-'Avámid) is the largest and best preserved khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravanserai) in Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Vilnay-2) Located in the Old City of Acre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akko), it is one of the prominent projects constructed during the rule of Ahmed Jezzar Pasha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezzar_Pasha) in the Ottoman era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire).

Due to its proximity to the port, Khan al-Umdan has throughout its history been an important trading spot. Merchants arriving at Acre used the khan as a warehouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse) while the second floor functioned as a hostel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostel).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Eye-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Flickr-4) Camel caravans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_train) once brought produce and grain from Galilean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee) villages to the city's markets and port.[5]

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Dumperp7-5)

The khan later gained importance to the Bahá'í Faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith) (as the Khán-i-'Avámid) as it was the site where Baha'ullah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baha%27ullah) used to receive guests, and later the site for a Bahá'í school.


In 1906 a clock tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_tower) was added adjacent to the main entrance to the khan to commemorate the silver jubilee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_jubilee) of the rule of Ottoman sultan Abd al-Hamid II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Hamid_II). It is similar to the Jaffa Clock Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Clock_Tower), a building dedicated to the same purpose. [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Archnet-1)
Modern era

In 2001 Khan al-Umdan, together with the rest of Acre's old city, was designated as a world heritage site (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_heritage_site).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Unesco-6) In 2004 Khan al-Umdan (Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language): ח'אן אל עומדאן‎) was featured on a stamp of Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_Israel) worth 1.3 sheqels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_New_Sheqel).[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-7) Nowadays, the khan is a major tourist attraction open all hours of the day and also used as an open air stage during the festivals in the city, such as the theater festival of Acre during the month of October.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_al-Umdan#cite_note-Trek-8)

jahil will now either call you a liar, say you got all that from an anti-Islamic hate site, or slink away from the thread like the coward he is. He will NOT have the nads to admit he was wrong.

[jafar00]

I'm sure you're all having fun trying to argue about a clock tower that may or may not exist after 65 years. It is however irrelevant to the subject of the thread which is the discovery of a mass grave containing the bones of Palestinians murdered as Israel was born out of terrorism in 1948.

[Voted4Reagan]

I'm sure you're all having fun trying to argue about a clock tower that may or may not exist after 65 years. It is however irrelevant to the subject of the thread which is the discovery of a mass grave containing the bones of Palestinians murdered as Israel was born out of terrorism in 1948.

Can you prove it was Murder or was it Collateral Damage from the War that the Arabs Started?

See...you have to PROVE it was murder Jafar. Your first post here was a fraud and I proved it to you.

Will you admit that the picture was a Fake? That the Article supporting it was untrue?

I seriously doubt that the Israelis murdered anyone.... probably collateral Damage from the war.

Unless you can PROVE otherwise.

Oh...the KHAN AL-UMDAN still exists and so does the Clocktower. It is a World Heritage site and protected.

It sits today EXACTLY as it was 65 years ago.

nice try at spin.... but another failed attempt from you to actually answer a question.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I'm sure you're all having fun trying to argue about a clock tower that may or may not exist after 65 years. It is however irrelevant to the subject of the thread which is the discovery of a mass grave containing the bones of Palestinians murdered as Israel was born out of terrorism in 1948.

So, the erroneously picture YOU posted so prominently in the OP, and the lie about Arabs being 'pushed into the sea', which was really an Arab quote about wanting to 'push the Jews into the sea'.... doesn't matter?

Then why did you post them in the OP, dumb ass???

[jimnyc]

I'm sure you're all having fun trying to argue about a clock tower that may or may not exist after 65 years. It is however irrelevant to the subject of the thread which is the discovery of a mass grave containing the bones of Palestinians murdered as Israel was born out of terrorism in 1948.

Not arguing about a clock tower - but rather you finding a picture and rushing here to post things as fact as a "gotcha" moment without verifying a damn thing. The fact that you got the place wrong, and that they weren't being pushed - right there your entire credibility on this thread goes down the shitter. Next time try researching before tossing the shit at the fan. While some stuck on the wall, it was still shit.

[Drummond]

I'm sure you're all having fun trying to argue about a clock tower that may or may not exist after 65 years. It is however irrelevant to the subject of the thread which is the discovery of a mass grave containing the bones of Palestinians murdered as Israel was born out of terrorism in 1948.

... admission MISSING ...

Care to try again ?

[Voted4Reagan]

I don't see guys running around screaming "ALLAH AKBAR" and blowing up innocent people. No way that is any muslim territory!

Anyway, nice to see that "some people" will read anything and then come here and report it as fact - when it's not. Sure does 'splain a lot! :lol:

Well...it's actually In Israel, the Building with the Green Dome to the Right is the Sinan Basha Mosque or Masjid Sinan Pasha which predates the Khan Al-Umdan by almost 2 centuries.

(SNIP)

The mosque was built in 1590 by Sinan Pasha, who governed Damascus under the Ottomans between 1589 and 1593. It stands on the site of an older mosque called Jami al-Basal along Suq Sinaniye, to the southwest of the walled city. The donor, Sinan Pasha, also served as the governor of Cairo and as the grand vizier to the sultan, and is known for his role in the Ottoman conquest of Yemen.
The mosque is built with alternating course of black and white stone. It consists of a prayer hall covered with a big dome and preceded by a courtyard, accessed through a tall muqarnas portal on the western wall, once flanked by a bathhouse, a bake house and shops. The courtyard is also entered from Suq al-Sakkaniyya to the north. The arched entrance of the western portal is topped by a glazed tile panel composed of floral motifs above the marble inscriptive panel in Arabic anchored by square mosaics panels on either side. The circular, green-enameled brick minaret rises above the southern pier of the portal, carried on a circular stone base of black and white stone. Its single balcony is supported by three rows of muqarnas and is protected by a carved stone balustrade below wooden eaves. The minaret ends at a pointed conical crown.

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/43078703.jpg

[Voted4Reagan]

bump for Jafar's reply.....

[jafar00]

Like many before him, JAFAR fell for the Pan-Arab Nationalist Propaganda that has been rampant in the middle east since the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): محمد أمين الحسيني‎, sold out to Hitler and the Nazis back in the 1930's.

Jafar.... you need to call the Article a HOAX and decry the deception it tries to portray...

The Khan Al-Umdan was easy to spot. (WIKI)

It could be as you say, however in google street view of the area it looks sort of similar, but there is no clock tower and the Mosque wall is different.

Also if you look at photos of the the place you are talking about from a similar viewpoint, offshore, it looks different.

See below. There is a green dome Mosque there but a long way from a clock tower (which seems to be common around there) which has a white domed Mosque near it.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/1920x1280/3105281.jpg

If the photo I posted is of Khan Al-Umdan (the sources say otherwise) it still doesn't excuse the massacre that also happened there when the terrorists moved in and encircled the city.

Town Statistics & Facts
<tbody>

Statistic/Fact

Value


Occupation date
18th of May 1948 (few days after the fall of Jaffa (http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/index.html))


Elevation from the sea
30 meters


Maps
Map of Acre city (http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Acre/AcreCityMap.gif)
Map of Acre district and neighboring villages (http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/index.html)



Battle for the city
N/A


Acts of terror

The massacre of 79 Palestinians soon after occupation.آ
No further information is available, so please do not hesitate to share with us any information about this unknown massacre.


Ethnic cleansing

Out of 13,000 Palestinians who used to call Acre home, only 3,000 Palestinians were allowed to stay.


Refugees' migration route

Before the encirclement of the city, some of Acre's inhabitants fled on foot to the Eastern hills, and some fled North to Lebanon. After the encirclement of the city, many of the inhabitants of the city and its defenders fled via boats (http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Picture1253.html) to Tyre (Sour), Sayda, and Beirut Lebanon.آ Click here (http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story578.html)to view a map that illustrates refugees' migration routes.

آ
Ironically, often Zionists accuse the Arabs of plotting to push the Jews into the sea!

</tbody>


Not arguing about a clock tower - but rather you finding a picture and rushing here to post things as fact as a "gotcha" moment without verifying a damn thing. The fact that you got the place wrong, and that they weren't being pushed - right there your entire credibility on this thread goes down the shitter. Next time try researching before tossing the shit at the fan. While some stuck on the wall, it was still shit.

Pushed is correct. They were fleeing a heavily armed army of terrorists hell bent on driving them out.

[red states rule]

Give it up Jafar, You have been busted once again in another one of your lies. Is your sheer hate for Jews this damn bad you have to spread crap so easily disproved all over the internet - then deny the obvious?

You make Joe Goebbels look like an honest man

[jimnyc]

Pushed is correct. They were fleeing a heavily armed army of terrorists hell bent on driving them out.

Sure. We believe you. We also see how you adore Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood. Forgive me if I don't accept your idea of what a terrorist is. Anyone who supports known and current terror organizations, isn't someone I'll take facts from regarding what is and isn't terrorism.

You claim of massacres and terrorism, and yet you don't even know what place you're talking about. You simply found a picture and a blurb and then tried to come here and pass it off as fact, because of your hatred for Jews, and you were busted. Your hatred won't change history, no matter how much you want it to.

Funny that you can start a thread here condemning people for something, from what, 60+ years ago? But NO WAY IN HELL you start a thread on known terrorists from today killing people. Not even Al Qaeda can get you to start a thread, and even when you do reply, it's sometimes an "understanding" of why they do what they do. But groups like Hamas? Full support!

[jafar00]

Sure. We believe you. We also see how you adore Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood. Forgive me if I don't accept your idea of what a terrorist is. Anyone who supports known and current terror organizations, isn't someone I'll take facts from regarding what is and isn't terrorism.

Since when do I adore them? Especially Hezbollah? The devious band of miscreants currently murdering innocent people at the behest of Assad? You have to be crazy.


You claim of massacres and terrorism, and yet you don't even know what place you're talking about. You simply found a picture and a blurb and then tried to come here and pass it off as fact, because of your hatred for Jews, and you were busted. Your hatred won't change history, no matter how much you want it to.

Are you denying that the occupation ever took place?

You probably love this quote..


"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."

Golda Meir Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969


Funny that you can start a thread here condemning people for something, from what, 60+ years ago? But NO WAY IN HELL you start a thread on known terrorists from today killing people. Not even Al Qaeda can get you to start a thread, and even when you do reply, it's sometimes an "understanding" of why they do what they do. But groups like Hamas? Full support!

Ok, so where are the threads condemning the Germans for the Holocaust? Or condemning the Allies for bombing German supply lines therefore causing starvation and death in the camps? Or for the killing of millions of innocents by US and allied forces in the Middle East in recent times?

Even your own leaders in recent times have done unspeakable things.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8

The death of 500,000+ children WAS WORTH IT??!?!

Gimme a break.

[jimnyc]

Your outright hatred of Jewish people and support of Hamas is really all people need to know. The fact that you openly support a terrorist organization is all really anyone needs to know. Now you'll act like you take issue with a group that kills innocent people, but when it's against the Jews, then your lips get sealed shut.

I suggest you do a little with the search button before looking foolish. The Holocaust and the Germans of that time have been condemned here endlessly. I say that and I am mostly German.

And don't speak of kids while you support a group who straps bomb belts on them and sends them into Israel. If you cared about even ONE child, you would condemn ANY group that does this stuff forever and ever. Instead, you beat around the bush and avoid condemning them, and then talk about how you understand them and their actions.

[Marcus Aurelius]

You probably love this quote..

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."

Golda Meir Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969




Wow... you're such a fucking liar you can't even quote people honestly or with the correct date...

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Golda_Meir



There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.

As quoted in Sunday Times (15 June 1969), also in The Washington Post (16 June 1969)

[Voted4Reagan]

It could be as you say, however in google street view of the area it looks sort of similar, but there is no clock tower and the Mosque wall is different.

Also if you look at photos of the the place you are talking about from a similar viewpoint, offshore, it looks different.

See below. There is a green dome Mosque there but a long way from a clock tower (which seems to be common around there) which has a white domed Mosque near it.

The Mosque in your picture is the al-Jazzar Mosque... It has a Green Minaret that matches the Dome.


http://www.friendlyplanet.com/media/gallery/middle_east/israel/al-jazzar-mosque-acre-israel-big.jpg?title=Al%20Jazzar%20Mosque%2C%20Acre

The mosque was the project of Acre's Ottoman governor in the late 18th century, Ahmed al-Jezzar (the butcher) Pasha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezzar_Pasha), who was equally famous for his cruelty, impressive public works and for defeating Napoleon at the siege of Acre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Acre_%281799%29) in 1799. Jezzar Pasha ordered the mosque's construction in 1781 and had it completed within the year; it was built over former Muslim and Christian prayer houses and other Crusader buildings.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezzar_Pasha_Mosque#cite_note-ANJM-1) There is a tughra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tughra) or monogram on a marble disc inside the gate, naming the ruling Sultan, his father and the legend "ever-victorious".
Adjacent to the mosque is a mausoleum and small graveyard containing the tombs of Jezzar Pasha and his successor, Suleiman Pasha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suleiman_Pasha_%28disambiguation%29), and their relatives.[2]



(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezzar_Pasha_Mosque#cite_note-Frommers-2)

[Voted4Reagan]

lets look at the fallacies in Jafars argument so far:

The Picture is Not a portrayal of Arabs being driven into the sea at Jaffa.

The picture was represented by Jafar as Jaffa... it is in Fact ACRE, Israel.

Jafar has not proven anything about the mas grave in Tel-Aviv, he hasnt discussed Tel-Aviv at all.

He cant prove that the grave is a result of a Massacre as he has stated.

He cant prove that Arabs were ever driven into the sea anywhere.

He refuses to acknowledge that the dead quite possibly are casualties from the 1948 War that the ARABS started. Making them most likely collateral Damage.

Jafar continues to try and portray the picture as somewhere else after I have conclusively proven to him that it is Acre. Even to the point of trying to put in a wide angle panoramic shot to show a different Mosque in order to cloud the issue. He failed at this time and again.

Jafar tried to say the Clocktower in his picture is not at the Khan al-Umdan.. I proved it is.

Jafar denies the mosque near the Khan al-Umdan is the Sinan Pasha Mosque... I proved it is.

Jafar has been shown that the mosque in his last picture is the Al-Jazzar Mosque. I proved that as well.



Jafar, will you now retract the original article as a valid source? It is a Fake, a forgery and a fraud. In the name of intellectual honesty will you call it what it has been proven to be... A HOAX.

We await your answer.

[Marcus Aurelius]

lets look at the fallacies in Jafars argument so far:

The Picture is Not a portrayal of Arabs being driven into the sea at Jaffa.

The picture was represented by Jafar as Jaffa... it is in Fact ACRE, Israel.

Jafar has not proven anything about the mas grave in Tel-Aviv, he hasnt discussed Tel-Aviv at all.

He cant prove that the grave is a result of a Massacre as he has stated.

He cant prove that Arabs were ever driven into the sea anywhere.

He refuses to acknowledge that the dead quite possibly are casualties from the 1948 War that the ARABS started. Making them most likely collateral Damage.

Jafar continues to try and portray the picture as somewhere else after I have conclusively proven to him that it is Acre. Even to the point of trying to put in a wide angle panoramic shot to show a different Mosque in order to cloud the issue. He failed at this time and again.

Jafar tried to say the Clocktower in his picture is not at the Khan al-Umdan.. I proved it is.

Jafar denies the mosque near the Khan al-Umdan is the Sinan Pasha Mosque... I proved it is.

Jafar has been shown that the mosque in his last picture is the Al-Jazzar Mosque. I proved that as well.



Jafar, will you now retract the original article as a valid source? It is a Fake, a forgery and a fraud. In the name of intellectual honesty will you call it what it has been proven to be... A HOAX.

We await your answer.

Jahil will now disappear from this thread, like he always does.

[Voted4Reagan]

Jahil will now disappear from this thread, like he always does.

I find the lack of intellectual Honesty on the part of Jafar to be an insult to those of his faith that advanced the sciences and mathematics.

I say Jafar must call the original article a Hoax as it has been proven to be or seriously suffer damage to his overall credibility here.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I see a picture of crowds of people on a dock and some boats with a few people in them. Nothing identifies where the picture was taken. A lot of the people are just standing around or relaxing on the dock. I just don't see the horror there that you do.

Once again you are trying to twist the facts about the birth of Israel. Yes it was born of blood and death. But that is because the arabs attacked Isarel the day it became a country. They haven't stopped since. And you are one of the they. He presented nothing that proves his accusation. Hell, we all know people die in war and we all know which party started the war. Israel defended and destroyed the ffing cowards. God saw to that. God won , Allah (theirs) lost. G = 1 A= 0. Later more victories but poor 'ole A hasn't had a win yet. --:beer:-Tyr

[Voted4Reagan]

I see that Jafar has left the thread....

I'll take that as an admission that he knows he is defending a HOAX.

I'd really hoped for an honest debate...

but a win is a win... I'll take it

[jafar00]

I can't believe how a debate over where a grainy 60 year old picture was exactly taken is such a big issue, yet a mass grave full of bones is brushed aside. Nice priorities you have. If the bones were American, you wouldn't care where the photo was taken.

[BillyBob]

I can't believe how a debate over where a grainy 60 year old picture was exactly taken is such a big issue, yet a mass grave full of bones is brushed aside. Nice priorities you have. If the bones were American, you wouldn't care where the photo was taken.


Well, you were the guy who made these claims: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?41065-Things-Muslims-Didn-t-Invent-but-Pretend-They-Did-Anyway

I'm just sayin'.....

[red states rule]

http://www.political-humor.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/the_religion_of_peace_and_love.jpg

[Marcus Aurelius]

I can't believe how a debate over where a grainy 60 year old picture was exactly taken is such a big issue, yet a mass grave full of bones is brushed aside. Nice priorities you have. If the bones were American, you wouldn't care where the photo was taken.

If it's not a big issue, why'd you post the faked picture, dumb ass? Oh, right... BECAUSE YOUR A FUCKING LIAR!!!!!!!!!!

[red states rule]

http://atheistoasis.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/muhammed-cartoon0.jpg

[jimnyc]

I can't believe how a debate over where a grainy 60 year old picture was exactly taken is such a big issue, yet a mass grave full of bones is brushed aside. Nice priorities you have. If the bones were American, you wouldn't care where the photo was taken.

If American, we would have made sure are facts were straight before trying to pass off something we knew little about as fact.

[Voted4Reagan]

I can't believe how a debate over where a grainy 60 year old picture was exactly taken is such a big issue, yet a mass grave full of bones is brushed aside. Nice priorities you have. If the bones were American, you wouldn't care where the photo was taken.

If you even bothered to read the article you'd have seen that they were collecting WAR DEAD. People killed after the Arabs attacked the Israelis in 1948.

The dead were casualties of war... not any atrocity that you are able to prove.

As for the 65 year old grainy photo...

YOU JAFAR put forth that photo and the accompanying Caption as "FACT" in an effort to Bolster your argument of atrocities being committed. It stated it was Jaffa, which it was not. You stated by putting it forth that it depicts Palestinians being pushed into the Sea... you can't prove this either. When confronted about the obvious faking of the picture and it's headline you immediately tried to backpeddle and say it was Jaffa and the Area had changed in the ensuing 65 years, This was also proven to be false as we showed you the individual buildings, names of said structures and even the dates they were built and by who.

Even after all this you attempted to portray the picture as something it was not.

That is called LYING. I proved that the buildings were in Acre and you still tried to cover up your mistakes by saying they were in Jaffa?

The Khan Al-Umdan is one of the best preserved examples of an Ottoman built Khan in the world. It is famous around the world to those who study architecture. Same goes for the Clock-tower as well as the 2 mosques in the picture. All built by the Ottomans in the Old City of Acre.

The logical thing would have been for you to admit your mistake of posting a phony picture that misrepresented the truth and owned up to it. Instead you continued to practice "TAQIIYA" and lie to us because in your eyes to actually tell the truth would diminish Islam is some weird way.

Why cant you just admit you were duped by a phony picture and be a man about it? There is no shame in telling the truth.

Or are you going to try and convince us that it still is Jaffa?

Be a leader...Admit your mistake and be done with it. Keep arguing this and you'll lose far more in terms of credibility.

[Marcus Aurelius]

If you even bothered to read the article you'd have seen that they were collecting WAR DEAD. People killed after the Arabs attacked the Israelis in 1948.

The dead were casualties of war... not any atrocity that you are able to prove.

As for the 65 year old grainy photo...

YOU JAFAR put forth that photo and the accompanying Caption as "FACT" in an effort to Bolster your argument of atrocities being committed. It stated it was Jaffa, which it was not. You stated by putting it forth that it depicts Palestinians being pushed into the Sea... you can't prove this either. When confronted about the obvious faking of the picture and it's headline you immediately tried to backpeddle and say it was Jaffa and the Area had changed in the ensuing 65 years, This was also proven to be false as we showed you the individual buildings, names of said structures and even the dates they were built and by who.

Even after all this you attempted to portray the picture as something it was not.

That is called LYING. I proved that the buildings were in Acre and you still tried to cover up your mistakes by saying they were in Jaffa?

The Khan Al-Umdan is one of the best preserved examples of an Ottoman built Khan in the world. It is famous around the world to those who study architecture. Same goes for the Clock-tower as well as the 2 mosques in the picture. All built by the Ottomans in the Old City of Acre.

The logical thing would have been for you to admit your mistake of posting a phony picture that misrepresented the truth and owned up to it. Instead you continued to practice "TAQIIYA" and lie to us because in your eyes to actually tell the truth would diminish Islam is some weird way.

Why cant you just admit you were duped by a phony picture and be a man about it? There is no shame in telling the truth.

Or are you going to try and convince us that it still is Jaffa?

Be a leader...Admit your mistake and be done with it. Keep arguing this and you'll lose far more in terms of credibility.

I have yet to see Jahil admit a single error, lie or omission on the forum. Don't hold your breath.

[Voted4Reagan]

Ladies and Gentlemen.... Jafar has taken his Propaganda and gone home..

He bailed out on this one...

[Marcus Aurelius]

Ladies and Gentlemen.... Jafar has taken his Propaganda and gone home..

He bailed out on this one...

He'll bail like he usually does, or come in one more time to claim no one proved him wrong and claim victory... then disappear again.

[jafar00]

Ladies and Gentlemen.... Jafar has taken his Propaganda and gone home..

He bailed out on this one...

No. I don't see any point continuing since it is clear none of you care about a mass grave containing ARAB bones or who killed them.

[Marcus Aurelius]

No. I don't see any point continuing since it is clear none of you care about a mass grave containing ARAB bones or who killed them.

and it's clear you don't care that you lied in the OP, and have continued to lie this entire thread.

[Voted4Reagan]

I say that Jafar is guilty of the Following:

The Greatest of Major Sins - Shirk, Lying and Bearing False Witness
It was narrated that Abu Bakrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Shall I not tell you of the greatest of major sins?” We said, “Yes indeed, O Messenger of Allaah.” He said, “Associating others with Allaah (shirk) and disobedience towards parents.” He was reclining, but then he sat up and said, “And false speech and false witness, and false speech and false witness,” and he kept on saying it until I thought he would never stop.

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5631; Muslim, 87).

[tell-tale]

Quote from Marcus Aurelius:

1. Originally Posted by jafar00

You probably love this quote..

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."

(--Golda Meir, Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969)

---------------------------------------------

Wow... you're such a fucking liar you can't even quote people honestly or with the correct date...

"There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist."

As quoted in Sunday Times (15. June 1969), also in The Washington Post (16. June 1969)
________________________________________
________________________________________

Dear All:

I chanced across this debate forum while looking for photos of said mass graves in Jaffa, and wanted to take this opportunity to thank "Marcus Aurelius" for his great kindness in refreshing all of our memories with the more complete context of the infamous lie by Golda Meir, as to there never having been any such thing as the Palestinian people...

--As if their lack of political autonomy or independence in their own name, meant that modern Jews, (who'd had no other than an emotional, sentimental connection to the land for nearly 2,000 years, and who also hadn't had any political autonomy under their own name during this entire period), were hence entitled to rob and murder and dispossess the modern, lawful inhabitants of the country and owners of the land, who'd been settled there for hundreds of years, of their land and homes and businesses, and, in many cases, their lives!

-- God's commandment to Moses and Joshua to dispossess the ancient Canaanites was a ONCE-only command, which God NEVER subsequently re-iterated or renewed, and was limited to only seven specific nations: It did NOT include all the other Gentile nations dwelling in Canaan at that time! (For example, it did not include either the Philistines, or the Midianites, despite how much grief the Israelites sufffered at the hands of these two nations!) On the contrary, God's law also included extensive, explicit commandments as to how they were to SHARE their promised land with other, non-Israelite nations!

Interestingly enough, when Golda Meyerson, (neé Mabovitch), was still just a 16-year-old, immigrant Russian, high school brat in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and neither she nor any of her family had ever set foot in Palestine, (i.e., in the year 1914, before the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, and the introduction of the British League of Nations Mandate, some eight years later), -- as part of their "Children of Other Lands" series, Lothrop, Lee & Shepard publishers of Boston had published Mousa Kaleel's book about his childhood in Ramallah, entitled "When I was a Boy in Palestine".

5141

(And not only Gentile writers, and Jews in the service of Gentiles, such as Josephus, but also eminent Jewish writers such as Philo if Alexandria already referred to the geographic region as "Palestine" nearly 2,000 years ago.)

Isaac Epstein, a Russian-born teacher who'd come to Palestine in 1886 had written (in 1907):
"There resides in our treasured land an entire people which has clung to it for hundreds of years... The Arab, like all other men, is strongly attached to his homeland."

And nearly two decades earlier, in 1891, Ahad Ha'am had similarly testified: "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."

So since you guys on this forum take such strong exception to lies, please don't come with any of Joan Peters' completely discredited (cf. Norman Finkelstein and Yehoshua Porath!) propaganda myths (lies!) about the Palestinians almost all having been "more recent immigrants, attracted by the increased economic opportunities which the Jewish development of the country created."(sic!) -- Especially since a primary pillar of Zionist and Histradut policies entailed building up an exclusively Jewish economy, excluding Arab labour, and boycotting Arab produce!

So parse it however you will, Golda Meir's infamous quote is still a bold-faced lie, in both its long and its short form...

"And outside are the dogs... and everyone who maketh and loveth a lie!" (Revelation 22.15)

I have more to add later, re. being "pushed" or "driven" into the sea, but both my time and internet access are limited at present, so I hope that the rules or prevailing etiquette of this forum(?) do not mean that my not being available 24/7 to immediately respond to any and all replies on this forum / thread will automatically earn me the epithet of being a coward who has slunk away and conceded the debate, even if I can only re-engage at intervals of several days...?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Quote from Marcus Aurelius:

1. Originally Posted by jafar00

You probably love this quote..

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."

(--Golda Meir, Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969)

---------------------------------------------

Wow... you're such a fucking liar you can't even quote people honestly or with the correct date...

"There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist."

As quoted in Sunday Times (15. June 1969), also in The Washington Post (16. June 1969)
________________________________________
________________________________________

Dear All:

I chanced across this debate forum while looking for photos of said mass graves in Jaffa, and wanted to take this opportunity to thank "Marcus Aurelius" for his great kindness in refreshing all of our memories with the more complete context of the infamous lie by Golda Meir, as to there never having been any such thing as the Palestinian people...

--As if their lack of political autonomy or independence in their own name, meant that modern Jews, (who'd had no other than an emotional, sentimental connection to the land for nearly 2,000 years, and who also hadn't had any political autonomy under their own name during this entire period), were hence entitled to rob and murder and dispossess the modern, lawful inhabitants of the country and owners of the land, who'd been settled there for hundreds of years, of their land and homes and businesses, and, in many cases, their lives!

-- God's commandment to Moses and Joshua to dispossess the ancient Canaanites was a ONCE-only command, which God NEVER subsequently re-iterated or renewed, and was limited to only seven specific nations: It did NOT include all the other Gentile nations dwelling in Canaan at that time! (For example, it did not include either the Philistines, or the Midianites, despite how much grief the Israelites sufffered at the hands of these two nations!) On the contrary, God's law also included extensive, explicit commandments as to how they were to SHARE their promised land with other, non-Israelite nations!

Interestingly enough, when Golda Meyerson, (neé Mabovitch), was still just a 16-year-old, immigrant Russian, high school brat in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and neither she nor any of her family had ever set foot in Palestine, (i.e., in the year 1914, before the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, and the introduction of the British League of Nations Mandate, some eight years later), -- as part of their "Children of Other Lands" series, Lothrop, Lee & Shepard publishers of Boston had published Mousa Kaleel's book about his childhood in Ramallah, entitled "When I was a Boy in Palestine".

5141

(And not only Gentile writers, and Jews in the service of Gentiles, such as Josephus, but also eminent Jewish writers such as Philo if Alexandria already referred to the geographic region as "Palestine" nearly 2,000 years ago.)

Isaac Epstein, a Russian-born teacher who'd come to Palestine in 1886 had written (in 1907):
"There resides in our treasured land an entire people which has clung to it for hundreds of years... The Arab, like all other men, is strongly attached to his homeland."

And nearly two decades earlier, in 1891, Ahad Ha'am had similarly testified: "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."

So since you guys on this forum take such strong exception to lies, please don't come with any of Joan Peters' completely discredited (cf. Norman Finkelstein and Yehoshua Porath!) propaganda myths (lies!) about the Palestinians almost all having been "more recent immigrants, attracted by the increased economic opportunities which the Jewish development of the country created."(sic!) -- Especially since a primary pillar of Zionist and Histradut policies entailed building up an exclusively Jewish economy, excluding Arab labour, and boycotting Arab produce!

So parse it however you will, Golda Meir's infamous quote is still a bold-faced lie, in both its long and its short form...

"And outside are the dogs... and everyone who maketh and loveth a lie!" (Revelation 22.15)

I have more to add later, re. being "pushed" or "driven" into the sea, but both my time and internet access are limited at present, so I hope that the rules or prevailing etiquette of this forum(?) do not mean that my not being available 24/7 to immediately respond to any and all replies on this forum / thread will automatically earn me the epithet of being a coward who has slunk away and conceded the debate, even if I can only re-engage at intervals of several days...?

Them's a lot of big words. We be naught but humble posters.

[Gaffer]

Oh goodie another hamas defender. There are no palestanians, only arabs. Palestine is and was a territory occupied by arabs.

[Voted4Reagan]

No. I don't see any point continuing since it is clear none of you care about a mass grave containing ARAB bones or who killed them.

THEY WERE KILLED DURING THE 1948 WAR..... a WAR THAT THE ARABS STARTED.

THIS MAKES THEM COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

Why are you ignoring this Jafar?

[Voted4Reagan]

Quote from Marcus Aurelius:

1. Originally Posted by jafar00

You probably love this quote..

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."

(--Golda Meir, Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969)

---------------------------------------------

Wow... you're such a fucking liar you can't even quote people honestly or with the correct date...

"There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist."

As quoted in Sunday Times (15. June 1969), also in The Washington Post (16. June 1969)
________________________________________
________________________________________

Dear All:

I chanced across this debate forum while looking for photos of said mass graves in Jaffa, and wanted to take this opportunity to thank "Marcus Aurelius" for his great kindness in refreshing all of our memories with the more complete context of the infamous lie by Golda Meir, as to there never having been any such thing as the Palestinian people...

--As if their lack of political autonomy or independence in their own name, meant that modern Jews, (who'd had no other than an emotional, sentimental connection to the land for nearly 2,000 years, and who also hadn't had any political autonomy under their own name during this entire period), were hence entitled to rob and murder and dispossess the modern, lawful inhabitants of the country and owners of the land, who'd been settled there for hundreds of years, of their land and homes and businesses, and, in many cases, their lives!

-- God's commandment to Moses and Joshua to dispossess the ancient Canaanites was a ONCE-only command, which God NEVER subsequently re-iterated or renewed, and was limited to only seven specific nations: It did NOT include all the other Gentile nations dwelling in Canaan at that time! (For example, it did not include either the Philistines, or the Midianites, despite how much grief the Israelites sufffered at the hands of these two nations!) On the contrary, God's law also included extensive, explicit commandments as to how they were to SHARE their promised land with other, non-Israelite nations!

Interestingly enough, when Golda Meyerson, (neé Mabovitch), was still just a 16-year-old, immigrant Russian, high school brat in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and neither she nor any of her family had ever set foot in Palestine, (i.e., in the year 1914, before the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, and the introduction of the British League of Nations Mandate, some eight years later), -- as part of their "Children of Other Lands" series, Lothrop, Lee & Shepard publishers of Boston had published Mousa Kaleel's book about his childhood in Ramallah, entitled "When I was a Boy in Palestine".

5141

(And not only Gentile writers, and Jews in the service of Gentiles, such as Josephus, but also eminent Jewish writers such as Philo if Alexandria already referred to the geographic region as "Palestine" nearly 2,000 years ago.)

Isaac Epstein, a Russian-born teacher who'd come to Palestine in 1886 had written (in 1907):
"There resides in our treasured land an entire people which has clung to it for hundreds of years... The Arab, like all other men, is strongly attached to his homeland."

And nearly two decades earlier, in 1891, Ahad Ha'am had similarly testified: "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."

So since you guys on this forum take such strong exception to lies, please don't come with any of Joan Peters' completely discredited (cf. Norman Finkelstein and Yehoshua Porath!) propaganda myths (lies!) about the Palestinians almost all having been "more recent immigrants, attracted by the increased economic opportunities which the Jewish development of the country created."(sic!) -- Especially since a primary pillar of Zionist and Histradut policies entailed building up an exclusively Jewish economy, excluding Arab labour, and boycotting Arab produce!

So parse it however you will, Golda Meir's infamous quote is still a bold-faced lie, in both its long and its short form...

"And outside are the dogs... and everyone who maketh and loveth a lie!" (Revelation 22.15)

I have more to add later, re. being "pushed" or "driven" into the sea, but both my time and internet access are limited at present, so I hope that the rules or prevailing etiquette of this forum(?) do not mean that my not being available 24/7 to immediately respond to any and all replies on this forum / thread will automatically earn me the epithet of being a coward who has slunk away and conceded the debate, even if I can only re-engage at intervals of several days...?

What you are leaving out is that the land that the British called Palestine was never the Palestinians to begin with.

Gaza belonged to Egypt
The west bank and much of current day Israel belonged to what was then TRANS-JORDAN
The Golan Heights and more parts of Israel belonged to Syria and Lebanon.

The Palestinians were nomadic, transients and to clarify were thrown out of every Arab Country they had ever lived in. They never had clear title to the land they lived on. The British as well as the other countries basically allowed them as squatters.

You leave all of that out of your argument, and while I applaud your well written post you omitted much from it .

Now.... Address the Article if you please.

Were these dead found in these mass graves victims of an atrocity or simply casualties of a war that the Arabs Started?

Be honest please....

[Marcus Aurelius]

What you are leaving out is that the land that the British called Palestine was never the Palestinians to begin with.

Gaza belonged to Egypt
The west bank and much of current day Israel belonged to what was then TRANS-JORDAN
The Golan Heights and more parts of Israel belonged to Syria and Lebanon.

The Palestinians were nomadic, transients and to clarify were thrown out of every Arab Country they had ever lived in. They never had clear title to the land they lived on. The British as well as the other countries basically allowed them as squatters.

You leave all of that out of your argument, and while I applaud your well written post you omitted much from it .

Now.... Address the Article if you please.

Were these dead found in these mass graves victims of an atrocity or simply casualties of a war that the Arabs Started?

Be honest please....

Right. :rolleyes:

[aboutime]

THEY WERE KILLED DURING THE 1948 WAR..... a WAR THAT THE ARABS STARTED.

THIS MAKES THEM COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

Why are you ignoring this Jafar?



jafar MUST get permission to make any statements here from his idol, and mentor...5144 5145

[jafar00]

THEY WERE KILLED DURING THE 1948 WAR..... a WAR THAT THE ARABS STARTED.

THIS MAKES THEM COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

Why are you ignoring this Jafar?

When Pol Pot did it, it was a massacre.
When Hitler did it, it was a holocaust.
When the Zionists do it, it's collateral damage.


What you are leaving out is that the land that the British called Palestine was never the Palestinians to begin with.

1899 Map "Palestine"

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/british-and-foreign-bible-society_holy-bible_1899_palestine_1594_2303_600.jpg

1946 Map - "Palestine"

http://palestineremembered.com/download/PalestineBeforeNakba.jpg

"Early" 1500's map - "Palestine"

http://www.mytinyworld.co.uk/images/superpic/palestine-map-large.jpg

1924 - "Palestine"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Palestine_north_1924.jpg/745px-Palestine_north_1924.jpg

There sure are a few maps referring to a place that never existed.

[Voted4Reagan]

When Pol Pot did it, it was a massacre.
When Hitler did it, it was a holocaust.
When the Zionists do it, it's collateral damage.





oh... you for get one thing...

in 1948 The Arabs that started the war outnumbered and out gunned the Israelis.

When you start the shooting, you dont get to claim the status of being a VICTIM..

Arabs and Palestinians started the war.... thats a historical fact.

You were aggressors... Not Victims.

[Marcus Aurelius]

a map from a doll house company?

http://www.mytinyworld.co.uk/dollshouse/prodcontentsearch.asp?searchstr=%27%27

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jafar00]

oh... you for get one thing...

in 1948 The Arabs that started the war outnumbered and out gunned the Israelis.

When you start the shooting, you dont get to claim the status of being a VICTIM..

Arabs and Palestinians started the war.... thats a historical fact.

You were aggressors... Not Victims.

The war only started after the Zionist terrorists kicked people from their ancestral homes. You can't say the Arabs started it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The war only started after the Zionist terrorists kicked people from their ancestral homes. You can't say the Arabs started it.

http://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/ArabIsraeliWar

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.

Arabs started it.

[Voted4Reagan]

The war only started after the Zionist terrorists kicked people from their ancestral homes. You can't say the Arabs started it.

Jafar... The United Nations created Israel... Israel Bought up a lot of the Land... They PAID the Palestinians for it.

Oh...and dont give me that "Zionist" crap Jafar. Israelis are not Zionists.

Thats like me saying all Muslims are Shiite's... it isnt true...

and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem helped Hitler kill untold numbers of jews... Certainly in the hundreds of thousands. Many of them Women and Children.

Palestinian attacks on Jews go back to 1921... Dont Deny it

[Gaffer]

A Zionist is someone that wants to reestablish the land of Israel. Since that has been done, there are no more Zionists. Zionist is now just a term to mean Jews or Israelis, that way people like jafar can get away with calling them nasty Zionists without the racial connotations. The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied.

[Voted4Reagan]

A Zionist is someone that wants to reestablish the land of Israel. Since that has been done, there are no more Zionists. Zionist is now just a term to mean Jews or Israelis, that way people like jafar can get away with calling them nasty Zionists without the racial connotations. The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied.

With the Arab lands (With the exception of Jordan and Egypt) NOT RECOGNIZING Israel's existence it makes it easier for them to use a term like ZIONIST because they feel the Jewish state doesn't exist.

The UN is a useless bunch of anti-semites... They do nothing to stop the hatred and in many cases make it worse.

[tell-tale]

“It’s not what he doesn’t know that bothers me; </SPAN>
It’s what he knows for damn sure, but that’s just plain wrong!”</SPAN>

Gaffer says:

"A Zionist is someone that wants to re-establish the land of Israel. Since that has been done, there are no more Zionists. Zionist is now just a term to mean Jews or Israelis, that way people like jafar can get away with calling them nasty Zionists without the racial connotations. The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied."

"The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied." ?!

--> Apparently, not carefully enough, because much of this brief statement is wholly inaccurate and untrue...

Especially the statements that, now, "there are no more Zionists"(sic!) </SPAN>

and</SPAN>: "Zionist is now just a term to mean Jews or Israelis."(sic!)

There were many Jews who were opposed to Zionism, and there are many who are still opposed to Zionism, and to the specifically Zionist policies (read, in this context, the racist, anti-Palestinian policies) of the state of Israel. They are frequently conveniently dismissed by Zionist Jews as being "self-hating Jews", but Jews they are, albeit, anti-Zionist, and in some cases, anti-Israeli Jews. Go read up on Alfred Lilienthal, as well as on the Neturei Karta sect of Orthodox Jews!

Zionism, since its modern inception under Herzl, Landau, et al, has always been intrinsically predicated upon the expulsion and dispossession of the Palestinians, (even though there have also been some more gentle and idealistic Jews who also considered themselves to be Zionists, but who desired to live together in harmony with the Arab natives of Palestine), the prevailing strain of Zionism has always been committed to denying the Palestinians their rights!

Some critics of Israeli and Zionist policy use this term - Zionist – in order not to be anti-semitic; so as not to tar all Jews with the same brush: to avoid incorrectly incriminating all Jews -- and even all other Israelis – when some of them do not support these hard-line policies, but are trying to work for peace, and justice, and reconciliation. </SPAN>

They say "Zionist" rather than "Jew" because they do not want to be anti-semitic, and do not want to accuse all Jews of the crimes of the majority of Jews -- just as in the 1930s, there were also some principled Germans, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and those in the Confessing Church, who, despite being German citizens and living under the Nazi dictatorship, were nevertheles opposed to the Nazis; So too, there are some Jews who oppose the ideology and the crimes of Zionism.</SPAN>

Albert Einstein, for instance, was asked by the Israelis (i.e., Ben-Gurion) to be the second president of Israel in 1952 – namely because he was the most famous, and most widely respected Jew in the world. Einstein, however, declined the offer, having already condemned Zionism in the strongest possible terms. For instance, in a letter dated April 10, 1948, Einstein had written:</SPAN>

“When a real and final catastrophe should befall us in Palestine the first responsible for it would be the British and the second responsible for it the Terrorist organizations build up from our own ranks.</SPAN></SPAN>
I am not willing to see anybody associated with those misled and criminal people.”</SPAN>

And this even though as a Jew, Einstein had originally supported Zionism. He ceased to be a Zionist not because the State of Israel had been established, but because of the manner in which it had been established!

But go and read up on the Neturei Karta; and get a copy (available used) of Alfred Lilienthal's book "What Price Israel?", and study the documentation he provides!!

And because not all Jews who were present in Palestine in 1948 supported or participated the crimes of the Zionists, but one also can't correctly use the term "Israeli" to refer to them until after May 15th, then -- especially when referring to their government-in-waiting in the decades before independence, (i.e., the Jewish Executive, and various other administrative bodies and committees); </SPAN>and to the actions of the Haganah, the Palmach, the Irgun, and the Stern Gang, especially during the period from November 29, 1947 through May 14, 1948, referring to them as “Zionists”, or as “the Zionist forces”, rather than as “Jews” is generally the more correct, and the most specific term.

It is, in fact, primarily those who are outright anti-semites who can refer to them simply as “the Jews”, without making any further qualifications or distinctions…! </SPAN>

[tell-tale]

“It's not what he doesn't know that bothers me,</SPAN>
it's what he knows for damn sure, that just ain't so!” </SPAN>
(--supposedly said by Harry Truman…)</SPAN>

1)</SPAN> Dear Voted4Reagan: You definitely poned Jafar, and performed a useful service for all of us in pointing out that the photo in question was in fact mislabelled, and was actually not a photo from Jaffa, but rather, was from Acre. So you deserve our thanks for having called this to our attention! (Although apparently, someone else had also already noticed this and documented this fact on the pro-Palestinian web-site, “Palestine Remembered”, this particular photo with the exact same, incorrect text, nevertheless continues to circulate widely on the internet.)</SPAN></SPAN>

It’s a pity, as you say, that Jafar couldn’t take his licking like a man, and own up to the fact that he’d been duped, and thank you for enlightening him in this particular specific, and get back to the main gist of the argument. (It’s also a pity that there sometimes seems to be so much ad-hominem, personal antipathy between some members of this forum, rather than a common devotion to pursuing and investigating the truth, such that discussions sometimes get unnecessarily derailed into mere personal attacks…)</SPAN></SPAN>

So the photo in question is not a photo of the Nakba actually occurring in Jaffa; it was either mistakenly mislabelled, or perhaps, was merely intended to be used for illustrative purposes, to make the point that, although the Jews have for decades (ever since 1948!) been very vociferously claiming that the Arabs were hell-bent on pushing them into the sea, that it was in fact the Jews themselves who in 1948 had very literally* driven thousands of Palestinian Arabs into the sea! (Specifically, in Jaffa, in Haifa, and in Acre!)</SPAN></SPAN>

Therefore, I have humbly taken it upon myself to improve and correct the caption on said photo, and I hereby submit the corrected version for your use and approval. </SPAN></SPAN>

à</SPAN></SPAN> [However (perhaps because I am only a junior member of this forum?) the previous JPEG image which I uploaded does not automatically display on the forum page! – only a link to it displays, which, if you click on it, then opens and redirects you to the image, but only in such a way that you have to again close and exit from the image, in order to be able to return to and continue scrolling through the forum page! </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
à</SPAN></SPAN> Therefore, Can someone please tell me how to correctly upload images here, so that they will automatically display on the page / in the main body of the thread? Thanx!]</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
___________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

2)</SPAN> *(I note with dismay that some members – JimmyC and Marcus Aurelius in particular – seem to be demanding that an extremely rigorous definition of “being pushed (or driven) into the sea” be applied and enforced in this case:</SPAN></SPAN>

Voted4Reagan:</SPAN></SPAN>

“He can't prove that Arabs were ever driven into the sea anywhere.”</SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

Marcus Aurelius:</SPAN>

“Neither picture shows anything remotely like people 'being pushed into the sea' ”</SPAN>

__________________________________________________ _____</SPAN>

JimmyC:</SPAN>

“Easy, you say they were driven into the sea. Unless you're blind, the picture shows them NOT being pushed/driven, but getting into boats.”</SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________ __________</SPAN>

Yes Jimmy, but this begs the question, of WHY were they getting into those boats?!</SPAN></SPAN>

à</SPAN></SPAN> Because in the final analysis, both being “Pushed into the sea”, and being “Driven into the sea” are of course metaphoric or figurative expressions for being driven out by force, with the ocean as one’s only means of escape: The fact that there were boats and ships by which they could make their escape, to other ports and other countries, and that there were British soldiers still in the ports (until May 15) guarding the refugees on the docks and holding off the Zionists, so that no Jew literally pushed an Arab off the side of a dock and into the water, with his bare hands, (i.e., so that said Palestinian lost his balance, and fell into the water); or literally drove a bunch of Arabs, like a herd of cattle, with whips, off a cliff like lemmings; or down the beach to the waterline, and then forced them to continue wading out into the surf until they ultimately drowned, -- the lack of any or all of these specific activities on the part of the Jews does not in any way minimize the fact that the Zionists, in every sense of the words, as they are normally used and understood in the English language!, did indeed drive (or push) the Palestinians into the sea</SPAN>!!! – in Haifa, in Jaffa, and in Akko, in April and May of 1948! There is ample documentation of this! </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

Hence, these “counter-arguments”, or objections made here by Marcus Aurelius and JimmyC, along these literalistic lines, are ridiculously specious, and sophomoric in the extreme!</SPAN></SPAN>
_____________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

Ilan Pappé, in his March 13, 2010 article in Le Monde Diplomatique, entitled: “Haifa: The Planned Death of a City”, writes :</SPAN></SPAN>

The officer in charge of the Carmeli brigade [of the Haganah], Mordechai Maklef, (who would become the third Israeli chief of staff), orchestrated the operation and gave orders to his troops in the Palestinian neighbourhoods (which, according to official Israeli records, were already empty of the Palestinians who had “left voluntarily”(sic). The Haganah Archives recorded: </SPAN></SPAN>

“When the bombardment of the neighbourhoods is concluded, troops will attack fiercely and aggressively and kill every Arab they meet. I am sending you flammable devices as well. You should burn every flammable object. I am sending you sappers with kits for breaking into houses” (3).</SPAN></SPAN>

Adherence to these orders within the small area in which thousands of Palestinians lived produced panic. Without leadership, without any proper defence or any agency responsible for law and order (the British army’s responsibility), the people began a massive exodus; an instinctive, hasty departure, leaving personal and household possessions behind. The masses surged towards the port, hoping to find a ship that would take them away from the city. The moment they left, their houses were pillaged.</SPAN></SPAN>

By 22 April the streets near the port were jammed with desperate people looking for refuge and safety. Local leadership, trying to organise the refugees, steered them towards the marketplace where, it was hoped, they could wait until an orderly transfer to the port was arranged. The official Brigade book of the Carmeli Brigade, published years later, did not try to conceal what had happened then: </SPAN></SPAN>

“In the early hours of the morning Maxi Cohen (commander of a battalion) informed the Brigade’s HQ that the Arabs were using a loudspeaker and calling upon everyone to concentrate in the market place ‘because the Jews have occupied Stanton Street and continue to descend towards downtown’. When this information reached the commander of the artillery unit, Ehud Alma was ordered to operate the three-inch mortars stationed near the Rothschild Hospital, and bombard the marketplace. And indeed masses of people congregated. When the bombardment commenced, and shells fell into the market, panic struck everyone. The masses broke into the harbour, pushing away the policemen who guarded the gate, stormed the boats and began escaping from the city.”</SPAN></SPAN>
____________________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

- The caption to one of the photo illustrations in Pappé’s “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” reads:</SPAN></SPAN>

“Thousands of Palestinians throng the beaches in an attempt to flee heavy shelling, many of whom drowned in the mass exodus.”</SPAN></SPAN>
____________________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

- Consider, too, this first-hand testimony of a survivor of the forced expulsion of the Palestinians from Haifa:</SPAN></SPAN>

“In April 1948 Haifa's Arab residents fled toward the harbour where many drowned as their overloaded boats capsized. “</SPAN></SPAN>
_____________________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

- Karma Nabulsi, writing on May 12, 2006, relates first-hand testimony from her aunt, viz:

”In the last week of April 1948, combined Irgun-Haganah forces launched an offensive to drive the Palestinian people out of the beautiful port city of Jaffa, forcing the remaining inhabitants to flee by sea; many drowned in the process. My aunt Rose, a teenager at that time, survived the trip to begin her life in exile on the Lebanese coast. Each Palestinian refugee family grows up hearing again and again the stories of those final moments in Palestine, the decisions, the panic, …”</SPAN></SPAN>
____________________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

If this doesn’t constitute “being pushed (or driven) into the sea”, then probably virtually nothing else, in the entire history of mankind, has ever done so, either; has ever qualified for that description! – Which makes it extremely strange that we should nevertheless have both of these expressions for this concept in English, (and in many other languages as well!) – Which expressions are readily understood by most speakers to mean exactly that which was done to the Palestinians in April and May of 1948 by the Israelis!</SPAN></SPAN>
_____________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

3)</SPAN> [Separate Issue: By the way, I’m not saying that no Arab has ever used that phrase, but: </SPAN></SPAN>
Does anyone have any reliable documentation of specific Arab leaders specifically threatening to “drive the Jews into the sea”? Since the long-standing myth about the “radio broadcasts by Arab leaders urging the Palestinians to flee” has been shown to have been an Israeli propaganda lie, (whereas it was in fact the Zionists themselves, as part of their psychological warfare, who were broadcasting dire warnings in Arabic, urging the Palestinians to flee, or else they would be slaughtered!), I’d be interested to see the dates and places, cited by reputable, reliable sources / publications), documenting those instances of known Arab leaders who specifically threatened to “drive the Jews into the sea” – since it was in fact the Jews who were themselves already doing exactly that to the civilian Arab population of Palestine… Just for the record, if you know what I mean… </SPAN></SPAN>
_____________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

[jimnyc]

The only thing sophomoric I see are Muslims often trying to defend the indefensible. All Jews are bad. The only good blood is Jew blood. We will never negotiate. Half the crap, and the other half I hear direct from Muslims, sound eerily familiar with the rants I hear from the likes of Hamas. What a coincidence.

None of this bullshit by the muzzies is going to make a damn bit of difference. Israel is far superior. For Palestine it's simple, come to the table and negotiate, and make peace. They refuse. Therefore they will lose. If they push any type of war or continue to send bombs over, Israel will destroy Palestine. Sounds to me like the peace table is the only way to go. But when lead by a terrorist group, they refuse that as an option. These people either side with this shit from Hamas, and stay where they are at. Either that, or become civilized and shoot for peace and a deal on land. Either way, their choice. I have no sympathy if they choose the path of Jew blood an hatred, which will be their demise.

[Gaffer]

I stand by what I said. Zionists are those who wanted to reestablish Israel. That's the definition. The term is now used to show hatred of Jews without sounding like they hate Jews. We don't hate the Jews we hate hate Zionists. Well there are no Zionists, only Jews and Israelis.

As I also said, The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied. Your response is a classic example. Well written propaganda is still propaganda.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I stand by what I said. Zionists are those who wanted to reestablish Israel. That's the definition. The term is now used to show hatred of Jews without sounding like they hate Jews. We don't hate the Jews we hate hate Zionists. Well there are no Zionists, only Jews and Israelis.

As I also said, The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied. Your response is a classic example. Well written propaganda is still propaganda.

Nazi propaganda against the Jews was well written too. Nobody would have ever known its results had not the right side won that war. Evil hides in a cloak of goodness doing its best to keep its wickedness hidden until its too damn late. The Arab muzzies all hate the Jews because the Jews show them up for what they really are= savage scum.

[jimnyc]

Since when do I adore them? Especially Hezbollah? The devious band of miscreants currently murdering innocent people at the behest of Assad? You have to be crazy.

Am I? Sounds like they were just a political party?


Hizbullah is a political party as well as the people's resistance of Lebanon. They only exist to counter Israeli aggression against Israel. If Israel didn't attack Lebanon, Hizbullah would not exist. They are not a terrorist organisation. Since they only retaliate against Israeli attacks, they are a legitimate resistance organisation. Their political aims in Lebanon are met by being elected into parliament, not by bombing the public into submission.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?6683-*Irans-Little-Hitler-Sounding-Shaken-Wonders-Now-If-USA-Will-Attack-*&p=116665#post116665

Coincidentally, in that same post:


The "Muslim" Brotherhood I can agree are terrorists.

But more recently you say they are just a bad government, or a "moderate Islamist Party". How does ones opinion on a group change from terrorists, to a political party once they were elected"

Forgive me for responding to newer stuff with older stuff, but I saw the older thread being read on "who's online", so went and read it again myself, and realized the discrepancies.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...But more recently you say they are just a bad government, or a "moderate Islamist Party"


remember, just because they are 'Islmaist', doesn't mean they are 'Islamic'... according to Jahil...

"Islamist" is a word used by Western Media to describe political parties in the Middle East that are not secular. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are Islamic.

[jafar00]

Am I? Sounds like they were just a political party?



http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?6683-*Irans-Little-Hitler-Sounding-Shaken-Wonders-Now-If-USA-Will-Attack-*&p=116665#post116665

Coincidentally, in that same post:



But more recently you say they are just a bad government, or a "moderate Islamist Party". How does ones opinion on a group change from terrorists, to a political party once they were elected"

Forgive me for responding to newer stuff with older stuff, but I saw the older thread being read on "who's online", so went and read it again myself, and realized the discrepancies.

I can read and learn and change my opinions. I am aware a leopard can change it's spots and in the case political groups, they follow whatever will bring them power.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I can read and learn and change my opinions. I am aware a leopard can change it's spots and in the case political groups, they follow whatever will bring them power.

Is that in the Qur'aan?

Hey, dumb ass... why haven't you commented on the fact that your beloved Al Jazeera uses the word 'Islamist' on a regular basis, even though they are not a 'western media' outlet? Still trying to spin that one, are you?:laugh:

[Marcus Aurelius]

Let me guess, Jahil... this never happened... right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre


Account of Raymond Cafferata After the masacre, Cafferata testified:

"On hearing screams in a room, I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sheriff from Jaffa. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him."[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre#cite_note-segev-8)[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre#cite_note-23)[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre#cite_note-24)

[tell-tale]

Unfortunately, the 1929 Hebron massacre is a very dark chapter, and can only be termed an atrocity. Those on this site, however, who are prone to generalize about “all” Arabs, or all Muslims, being “bloodthirsty scum”, should </SPAN></SPAN>continue reading the same wikipedia article you cite, and note, further down, the following additional information:</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

Arabs shelter Jews</SPAN></SPAN> </SPAN>

Around 25 Arab families helped save 280-300 Jews by sheltering them during the melee.[2]</SPAN></SPAN>
Aharon Reuven Bernzweig related that an Arab named Haj Eissa El Kourdieh, saved a group of 33 Jews after he insisted they hide in his cellar. There they waited with a "deadly fear" for the trouble to pass, worrying that the "murderers outside would hear [the little children who kept crying]." From the cellar, they heard cries of "today is a day that is holy to Mohammed. Anyone who does not kill Jews is a sinner." Meanwhile, several Arab women, stood guard outside, repetitively challenging the claims of the screaming mob that they were sheltering Jews.[2] Yonah Molchadsky gave birth while taking refuge in an Arab basement. Molchadsky later related that when the mob demanded that Arabs give up any Jews they were hiding, her host told them "we have already killed our Jews," whereupon the mob departed[30] The family of Abu Id Zaitoun rescued Zmira Mani and other Jews by hiding them in their cellar and protecting them with their swords. They later found policeman to escort them safely to the police station at Beit Romano.[31]</SPAN></SPAN>
Survivors</SPAN></SPAN> </SPAN>

Around 435 Jews survived, most having been saved by a handful of Arab families. Around 130 saved themselves by hiding or by taking refuge in the British police station at Beit Romano on the outskirts of the city.[2] After order had been restored, all the Jews were gathered at the police station where hundreds of people were confined for three days, without food or water. They were also forbidden from making telephone calls. All the survivors were then evacuated to Jerusalem.

[2] The Hebron Massacre of 1929: A Recently Revealed Letter of a Survivor

[30] Haaretz. Survivor of 1929 Hebron Massacre recounts her ordeal by Eli Ashkenazi. Last accessed: 12 August 2009/

[31] Zmira Mani (later renamed Zmira Meshorer), "What I saw in Hebron" ("ma shera'iti behevron"), Ha'aretz, Sep 12, 1929, reprinted in: Knaz, Yehoshua (ed.) (1996).Haaretz - the 75th Year, Schocken Publishing, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, pp. 33-34 (in Hebrew).

__________________________________________________ _
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
Would you now like to also have some of the many descriptions of the various massacres committed by Zionist forces against Palestinians? – Many of said descriptions given by Israeli eye-witnesses, (and even the perpetrators themselves, in some cases), and cited from Jewish and Israeli sources – or do you share Voted4Reagan’s opinion, when he said:</SPAN>

</SPAN></SPAN>-----------------------------------------
"Can you prove it was Murder or was it Collateral Damage from the War that the Arabs Started?</SPAN>

See...you have to PROVE it was murder, Jafar. Your first post here was a fraud and I proved it to you.
</SPAN>

I seriously doubt that the Israelis murdered anyone</SPAN>.... probably collateral damage from the war."</SPAN>

-----------------------------------------
</SPAN>
(--Or perhaps V4R was referring here ONLY to the mass graves recently found in Jaffa, and admits that the Israeli forces did inded commit other murders elsewhere?)</SPAN></SPAN>

[jimnyc]

Tell-tale - I know we have limitations in place, to not allow new members to immediately post links, which was done to prevent spammers from joining to post links and running. Please post links after your 5th post. Also, if the system won't let you, just drop off the http://www part and add the rest. Thx

[aboutime]

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have anything called a Mass Grave of Palestinians when....There is no such nation for anyone to call themselves Palestinians.

[Voted4Reagan]

Unfortunately, the 1929 Hebron massacre is a very dark chapter, and can only be termed an atrocity. Those on this site, however, who are prone to generalize about “all” Arabs, or all Muslims, being “bloodthirsty scum”, should continue reading the same wikipedia article you cite, and note, further down, the following additional information:

Arabs shelter Jews

Around 25 Arab families helped save 280-300 Jews by sheltering them during the melee.[2]
Aharon Reuven Bernzweig related that an Arab named Haj Eissa El Kourdieh, saved a group of 33 Jews after he insisted they hide in his cellar. There they waited with a "deadly fear" for the trouble to pass, worrying that the "murderers outside would hear [the little children who kept crying]." From the cellar, they heard cries of "today is a day that is holy to Mohammed. Anyone who does not kill Jews is a sinner." Meanwhile, several Arab women, stood guard outside, repetitively challenging the claims of the screaming mob that they were sheltering Jews.[2] Yonah Molchadsky gave birth while taking refuge in an Arab basement. Molchadsky later related that when the mob demanded that Arabs give up any Jews they were hiding, her host told them "we have already killed our Jews," whereupon the mob departed[30] The family of Abu Id Zaitoun rescued Zmira Mani and other Jews by hiding them in their cellar and protecting them with their swords. They later found policeman to escort them safely to the police station at Beit Romano.[31]
Survivors

Around 435 Jews survived, most having been saved by a handful of Arab families. Around 130 saved themselves by hiding or by taking refuge in the British police station at Beit Romano on the outskirts of the city.[2] After order had been restored, all the Jews were gathered at the police station where hundreds of people were confined for three days, without food or water. They were also forbidden from making telephone calls. All the survivors were then evacuated to Jerusalem.

[2] The Hebron Massacre of 1929: A Recently Revealed Letter of a Survivor

[30] Haaretz. Survivor of 1929 Hebron Massacre recounts her ordeal by Eli Ashkenazi. Last accessed: 12 August 2009/

[31] Zmira Mani (later renamed Zmira Meshorer), "What I saw in Hebron" ("ma shera'iti behevron"), Ha'aretz, Sep 12, 1929, reprinted in: Knaz, Yehoshua (ed.) (1996).Haaretz - the 75th Year, Schocken Publishing, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, pp. 33-34 (in Hebrew).

__________________________________________________ _

Would you now like to also have some of the many descriptions of the various massacres committed by Zionist forces against Palestinians? – Many of said descriptions given by Israeli eye-witnesses, (and even the perpetrators themselves, in some cases), and cited from Jewish and Israeli sources – or do you share Voted4Reagan’s opinion, when he said:

-----------------------------------------
"Can you prove it was Murder or was it Collateral Damage from the War that the Arabs Started?

See...you have to PROVE it was murder, Jafar. Your first post here was a fraud and I proved it to you.


I seriously doubt that the Israelis murdered anyone.... probably collateral damage from the war."

-----------------------------------------

(--Or perhaps V4R was referring here ONLY to the mass graves recently found in Jaffa, and admits that the Israeli forces did inded commit other murders elsewhere?)

Mr. Tell-Tale... The mass graves were created by people collecting the dead of the war from the streets and interring them quickly in existing tombs according to the Arab and Jewish Custom. The dead of battle were quickly and unceremoniously
dumped in these mas graves.

A local fisherman Atar Zeinab, 80, said that as a teenager during the final months of fighting in 1948 he helped to collect the Arab dead in the area south of Jaffa.

They were then brought for a quick burial in the cemetery, the area’s main graveyard.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334205/Mass-grave-uncovered-containing-dozens-Palestinians-killed-1948-war-founded-Israel.html#ixzz2WtugUukN



There you have it... WAR DEAD... Not Murder...Not War Crimes... Nobody was pushed into the sea..

This from an Arab that helped collect the bodies...


These were not atrocities... these were casualties of a war started by the combined Arab Nations in 1948.

[tell-tale]

"These were not atrocities... these were casualties of a war started by the combined Arab Nations in 1948." (sic!)

V4R - I read that quote in the Daily Mail probably long before you did -- certainly before I ever stumbled across this site! The problem is, you and others here have constantly been repeating the lie that the 1948 Arab-Israeli war was started by the Arabs, when the surrounding Arab nations attacked Israel on May 15th -- whereas it was in fact the Zionist forces (technically, they are not designated "Israeli" forces until May 14/15th) who had begun a systematic war to expel (ethnically cleanse) the Palestinians from much of both the land which the UN resolution 181 had allotted to the (as yet unnamed future) Jewish state, (but where the Jews were pledged to respect all the civil, religious, economic and property rights of all the existing population, including Muslim and Christian Arabs!) AND to expel them from much of the land -- such as the Arab city of Jaffa, which the UN resolution had allotted to the future Palestinian state!</SPAN>

And the casualties which that Palestinian fisherman is referring to having collected in the streets of Jaffa, were collected there in the last weeks of April 1948, several weeks before any surrounding Arab nations attacked Israel! These casualties were the result of Zionist shelling of Palestinian civilians in APRIL of 1948, while the British were (supposedly) still 'maintaining the peace' -- i.e. preventing any Arab nations from coming of the aid of the Palestinians, but not effectively preventing the Jews from slaughtering and driving out the Palstinians. But well before any Arab nations counter-attacked Israel on May 15th! </SPAN>

“Counter-attacked” not in the sense that Israel first attacked those neighboring countries, but rather, in the sense that they were finally responding to the Zionists' ongoing attacks on, and ethnic cleansing of the Arab population of Palestine (which lacked -- had been prevented by the British from developing -- both the armed forces and underground paramilitary forces which the British had allowed the Jews to develop, AND similarly lacked the independent, autonomous civil administration which the British had similarly helped(?) and allowed the Jews to develop), but largely prevented(?) the Palestinians from developing – these surrounding Arab nations (even if some of them may have had other motives as well) were finally coming to the defense of the Palestinians, and were responding to the one-sided, lop-sided ongoing war which the Israelis / Zionists / Jews had started at the beginning of December, 1947, and already been waging for a full five and a half months against the Palestinians, in CRASS violation of the solemn oaths they’d pledged to the United Nations:</SPAN>
___________________________________

The United Nations Partition Resolution of November 29, 1947 - to which defenders of Israel constantly appeal in claiming that Israel was legitimately established on the basis of international law - guaranteed the civil, political, economic, religious and property rights of the Arabs. It provided that the stipulations contained in the (U.N.) Declaration on those rights were to be recognized as fundamental laws of the State; and that no law, regulation, or official action was to conflict or interfere with these stipulations or take precedence. It also stipulated that "no discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants on the grounds of race, religion, language, or sex"; and that "no expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish state shall be allowed except for public purposes"; and that "in all cases of expropriation, full compensation as fixed by the Supreme Court shall be paid previous to dispossession."</SPAN></SPAN>
[--Sami Hadawi, Bitter Harvest (1967), p. 90.]</SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________ _____


- 213 Palestinian villages and towns (population: 413,794, = 52% of the refugees) were “cleansed” while still (supposedly) under the “protection” of the British mandate; that is to say, before the start of the Arab-Israeli war on May 15, 1948!</SPAN></SPAN>

Massacres:</SPAN></SPAN>

Usually, the cleansing (“Nikayon,” a word used frequently in Israeli military communications at the time) was initiated by massacres. Plan Dalet was started to conquer the area between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and it commenced in earnest following the massacre of Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948. This was followed by several other massacres, which terrorized the Palestinians into leaving. In 1948, the Palestinians were terrorized by 33 massacres in total: </SPAN></SPAN>

Over half of these crimes were committed while the area was still under British mandate and (presumed) protection!
</SPAN></SPAN>
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

Chronology of </SPAN>Documented Israeli MASSACRES of Palestinians committed in 1948 BEFORE May 15th:</SPAN></SPAN>

- Mannsurat al Khayt (18 Jan 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Qisarya (15 Feb 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Wadi ‘Ara (27 Feb 1948).</SPAN></SPAN>

- Deir Yassin (9 April 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Khirbet, Nasir ad Din (12 April 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Hawsha (15 April 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Al Wa’ra al-Sawda (18 April 1948), </SPAN></SPAN>

- Haifa (21 April 1948), </SPAN></SPAN>

- Husayniyya (21 April 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Balad ash Sheikh (25 April 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Ayn az Zaytun (2 May 1948),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Al Abbasiyya (4 May 1948), </SPAN></SPAN>

- Bayt Daras (11 May 1948), </SPAN></SPAN>

- Burayr (12 May 1948), </SPAN></SPAN>

- Khubbayza (12 May ‘48),</SPAN></SPAN>

- Abu Shusha (14 May 1948)</SPAN></SPAN>

As said, over half of the Palestinian refugees had already been driven out before May 15th, 1948; and over half of these (33 documented) massacres (not just expulsions!) also occurred before the 15th of May as well, all of this while Palestine was supposedly still under the “protection” of the British Mandate, and before any foreign Arab armies had yet entered the fray – indeed, according to contemporary sources, the primary reason the surrounding nations “invaded” (and note too that none of them ever entered the territory which the U.N. partition plan had originally allotted to Israel; they only entered the territory which the U.N. had decreed was to remain Palestinian!), was to protect and defend the native Palestinians against these wanton massacres, and forced expulsions, and Israel’s aggressive war of conquest!</SPAN></SPAN>
__________________________________________________ __________________________
__________________________________________________ __________________________</SPAN></SPAN>

[Michael Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe (1989, Quartet Books, London. pp. 34-37:] </SPAN></SPAN>

How did the 1948 War Begin? </SPAN></SPAN>
And Who First Attacked Whom?</SPAN></SPAN>

The crisis in Palestine had begun on 2. December, 1947, at the start of the three-day general strike to protest the partition resolution. On the second day of the strike, there had been some looting and sporadic violence against Jewish shops. According to a British police official these incidents, `Had undoubtedly not been organized but were the acts of individuals and groups.'1 The relatively subdued Arab reaction to the partition resolution contrasted sharply with the Zionist reign of terror that had accompanied the announcement of the White Paper in 1939. It was clear that although the Palestinian leadership wanted a show of defiance against the partition resolution, they did not wish to fight a civil war.</SPAN></SPAN>

Jewish Terror Against Unarmed Civilians:</SPAN></SPAN>

However, the Irgun used the Arab rioting in early December 1947 as an excuse to launch a murderous terrorist campaign that claimed the lives of many Arab civilians in numerous towns and villages. The Irgun leader Menachem Begin later explained his attitude during this period: `My greatest worry in those months was that the Arabs might accept the United Nations plan. Then we would have had the ultimate tragedy, a Jewish state so small that it could not absorb all the Jews of the world.'2 Irgun terror however would make sure that no agreement would be possible.</SPAN></SPAN>

On Friday, 12. December, Jewish terrorists had murdered nineteen Arab civilians in reprisal for the Jews killed in the Arab riots. But on the following afternoon the people of [the Arab village of] Yehidya were reassured when they saw a patrol of British army vehicles enter their village. The four cars stopped in front of the coffee house and out stepped men dressed in khaki uniforms and steel helmets. However, it soon became apparent that they had not come to protect the villagers. With machine guns they sprayed bullets into the crowd gathered in the coffee house. Some of the invaders placed bombs next to Arab homes while other disguised terrorists tossed grenades at civilians. For a while it seemed as if the villagers would be annihilated but soon a real British patrol arrived to foil the well-organized killing raid. The death toll of seven Arab civilians could have been much higher.3</SPAN></SPAN>

Earlier in the day Jewish terrorists had tossed home–made bombs from a speeding taxi into a crowd of Arabs standing near the Damascus gate in Jerusalem. Six Arabs were killed and twenty-three were wounded. In Jaffa another bomb was thrown into a caf</SPAN>é</SPAN>, killing six more Arabs and injuring forty.</SPAN></SPAN>

Throughout Palestine twenty-one Arab civilians were murdered on Saturday, 13. December by Jewish terrorists. Added to the previous day's casualties it amounted to a declaration of war by the Yishuv against the Palestinian Arabs. Sir Alan Cunningham, the British High Commissioner, had the task of attempting to mediate between Jew and Arab in Palestine. Although Cunningham favoured partition and the establishment of a Jewish state, he had no sympathy for the terrorist tactics of the Zionists. On 13. December, he reported to London:</SPAN></SPAN>

The initial Arab outbreaks were spontaneous and unorganized and were more demonstrations of displeasures at the UN decision than determined attacks on Jews. The weapons initially employed were sticks and stones and had it not been for Jewish resource to firearms, it is not impossible that the excitement would have subsided and little loss of life been caused. This is more probable since there is reliable evidence that the Arab Higher Committee as a whole and the Mufti in particular, although pleased at the strong response to the strike call were not in favour of serious outbreaks.4</SPAN></SPAN>

On 15. December, in an equally revealing dispatch, Cunningham told London the names of those in the Jewish community responsible for the reign of terror engulfing Palestine. `The provocative action of the Jews and their admission that the Haganah is authorized to take what they call counter-action, but what is in effect indiscriminate action against the Arabs is hardly calculated to have a calming effect.'5 Cunningham denied the claim that the dissident Irgun and Stern Gang terrorist groups were acting independently of the Jewish Agency. `This has not in fact been the case and in any event the Haganah and the dissident groups are now working so closely together that the Agency's claim that they cannot control the dissidents is inadmissible.'</SPAN></SPAN>

The offensive actions of the Haganah and Irgun not only helped to provoke the war but also stimulated the earliest indications of the Palestinian exodus. On 15. December 1947 the left Zionist newspaper Al Hamishmar published a report that stated that as a result of Zionist terrorism `many of the Arabs who live near Hebrew settlements are moving to areas with large concentrations of Arab population.' As the violence in Palestine increased the flight of the Palestinians accelerated.</SPAN></SPAN>

As Cunningham expected, the situation in Palestine worsened during the last days of 1947. On the morning of 18. December, a group of Arabs attacked a Jewish settlement in the Negev but were driven off by the RAF. That evening the Haganah staged a raid against the village of Khisas near the Lebanese-Syrian border. The attacks started at 9 p.m. when two carloads of terrorists drove through the village firing machine guns and throwing grenades. Ten Arab civilians were killed in the raid. The following day at the villa of Qazaza, five Arab children were murdered when Jewish terrorists dynamited the house of the village Mukhtar. By the end of the month, 450 people had been killed and over 1,000 injured in the violence.</SPAN></SPAN>

It is often claimed that the Arabs initiated the 1948 war when they rejected the partition resolution. But to portray the Jews in Palestine as innocent victims of Arab aggression is ludicrous. Although the Zionists had publicly agreed to the partition resolution, they had no intention of accepting the borders or demographic composition of their new state. Yeshayahu Ben Porat was a member of the Haganah during this period. He noted that while he had been in the Zionist youth movement, he `was trained to despise the Arab population.' He was taught that he must one day struggle for a Zionist state that would be goyim rein. "judenrein" having been Hitler's adjectival catch-phrase for a Germany "free of Jews."] `They did not educate us in the perspective that there will be a Jewish state here where Arab and Jews will live together. The hidden thought and sometimes the overt thought was: they will go away and we shall stay.'7 Ben Porat later recalled that on the eve of the conflict most Jews believed, `we needed a war with the Arabs. In the kibbutzim they looked at the Arab villages in the vicinity and they divided up their land in their thoughts.'</SPAN></SPAN>

Endnotes:</SPAN></SPAN>
[1] New York Times, 3. December, 1947.</SPAN></SPAN>

[2] Nicholas Bethell, The Palestine Triangle, p. 354.</SPAN></SPAN>

[3] New York Times, 14. December, 1947.</SPAN></SPAN>

[4] Middle East Centre, St. Anthony's College (Oxford): Cunningham Papers, box 2, file 3.</SPAN></SPAN>

[5] Middle East Centre, St. Anthony's College (Oxford): Cunningham Papers, box 2, file 3.</SPAN></SPAN>

[7] Marion Woolfson, Prophets in Babylon, p. 123.</SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________ ______</SPAN></SPAN>

[tell-tale]

The Jewish Conquest and Fall of Jaffa, January-April 1948:</SPAN></SPAN>
Jaffa was the most advanced city in Palestine, and had approximately 70,000 Palestinian inhabitants. The U.N. assigned Jaffa to Arab Palestine in UNGAR 181 of 29 November 1947. But Jaffa was always going to be vulnerable to Zionist attack as it was an Arab enclave surrounded by Jewish Palestine, and abutted Tel Aviv, which contained the greatest concentration of Jewish population anywhere in Palestine. In the last four months of British rule, contemporary British Palestine Police and British Army records report the following ninety (90!) Zionist attacks on the citizens of Jaffa! (NB! Jewish attacks against military targets have been excluded from this list!):</SPAN></SPAN>

1 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 1200 hours, Jaffa. An explosion occurred in an Arab owned block of flats in Suq El Yehud, near Manshieh Police Station. The flats were completely demolished and slight damage was caused to the police station. Mohammed Ahmed Ismail, aged 20 of Manshieh Quarter, was slightly injured in the hand by glass splinters and was discharged after treatment. An Arab has reported to police that earlier he had seen four Jews carrying a barrel-shaped object. CO 537/3855</SPAN></SPAN>

1 JANUARY 1948 During the afternoon of 1 January, a bunch of Irgun Z'vai Leumi thugs dressed in battledress and steel helmets drove at speed through Jaffa and fired at Arabs sitting outside a cafe. They killed two and wounded nine others before crashing through an Arab road block and disappearing into Tel Aviv. To emphasize the illusion that the British are responsible for all disorder in the country, they were wearing the flashes of the Royal Irish Fusiliers. WO 275/64</SPAN></SPAN>

1 JANUARY 1948 Small party of Jews entered block of flats 40 yards in rear Shell Petrol Station, Jaffa, and placed a bomb which demolished the block of flats. So far, 1 Arab injured by flying debris. WO 275/64</SPAN></SPAN>

4 JANUARY 1948 At 12:25 p.m. two Jewish terrorists, one driving a truck loaded with time bombs and the other driving a jeep, both as usual in British uniforms, drove to the end of a lane between the Arab welfare and relief centre in Jaffa housing children and the Barclay's Bank. The truck was driven in the lane and left there, and the driver was picked up by the jeep driver who was waiting for him. As they drove away, the whole town was rocked by a powerful explosion and many distant buildings were damaged by the concussion. The welfare centre was demolished. Seventeen Arabs were killed in this coldblooded murderous attack and 106 were wounded. Among those killed and seriously wounded were women and children. (United Nations Security Council Official Records, Supplements - 1948).</SPAN></SPAN>

4 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 1240 hours, Jaffa. The Old Serrai in Clock Tower Square which houses the offices of the Arab National Committee, was completely destroyed by an explosion which killed 15 and injured 98 persons. Buildings nearby including Barclay's Bank, the Central Police Station and several shops and houses were also extensively damaged. Full details of how the attack was carried out are not yet available, but it is believed the attackers arrived at the scene in two vehicles? a 3-ton truck laden with orange boxes and a saloon car. Proceeding up Bustros Street towards Clock Tower Square? the truck turned left into the narrow lane between Barclay's Bank and the Old Serrai. The saloon car was seen to park some 20 metres north of Central P.S. near the road leading to the port area. The truck was parked at a point about 20 yards along the above mentioned lane. Two persons, dressed as Arabs, were seen to alight from the truck and walk across the square. They got into the waiting car which drove off in the direction of the Ajami Quarter. Almost immediately following the departure of the car, the explosion occurred. Tons of masonry from the Old Serrai building completely blocked the land running beside it, A fire subsequently broke out in Barclay's Bank but was extinguished. A strong-room situated in the upper storey of the bank was blown in and a considerable amount of money was salvaged and taken into police custody. The entire area was wired off to facilitate salvage operations and to prevent looting. It is reported from TeI Aviv that Irgun Z'vai Leumi have claimed responsibility for this outrage. Tension has risen to a high pitch in Jaffa as a result of this attack, and a certain degree of anti-Government feeling has been expressed. </SPAN></SPAN>

Details of the casualties are as follows:- Dead: 1) Mohammed Abdul Hallak (aged 12); 2) Abudul Sattah Wahab Jaber (20); 3) Ali Kastika; 4) Mohammed Said Abu Hassan (40); 5) Ahamad Derdanji (45); 6) Ahmad Hawari; 7) Yusef Abu Sheikh (25); 8) Ahmad Faris Shehadi (25); 9) Sa'ad Abil Majid Zein (25); 10) 15 unidentified. Injured: 1) Said Kheber Said (25) - serious; 2) Abed Ahmad Duknak ( 10) - serious; 3) Abed Mahmoud Shulayeh (17) - serious; 4) Ashraf Tewfik Lufti (28) - serious; 5) Naji Said Mughrabi - serious; 6) Mohammed Ibrahim Mughrabi - serious; 7) Taha Abu Rabah (35) - serious; 8) Mohammed Hassan Ibrahim (20) - serious; 9) Rasmiyeh Saba (22) - serious; 10) Abed Mustafe Abu Wazni (30) - serious; 11) Hishan Alami (35) - not serious; 12) Ibrahim Mustafa Najar (25) - not serious. All the above named are in the Dajani Hospital. 13) Huda Abu Labm (20) - not serious; 14) Said Afif Atout (19) - not serious; 15) Rafik Salami (27) - not serious; The above three are in the Government Hospital, 16) Ahmad Mahmoud Taher (30) - serious; 17) Ahmad Ahmad Nel(25) - serious; 18) Ali Hassan Ashoura (20) - not serious; 19) Ahmad Ismail Abu Shabayeh (22) - not serious; 20) Rais Hassan Abu Chouleh (70) - not serious. The above-mentioned five are in the French Hospital. Seventy-eight other persons were treated in hospitals for slight injuries but were not detained. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855</SPAN></SPAN>

8 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 0245 hours, Jaffa. Unknown persons placed a bomb against the house of Haj Abed El Jaber Lahloub, situated at the western side of Beit Dajan village. The bomb exploded causing extensive damage to the house? but no casualties. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855</SPAN></SPAN>

9 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 0730 hours, Jaffa. Near Jaffa Railway Station; two buses conveying Arab railway employees to Lydda were fired upon from automatic weapons from Jewish houses overlooking their station. Hassan Hilu of Jaffa sustained a slight bullet wound in the leg, and two other Arabs were slightly injured by glass splinters. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

10/11 JANUARY 1948 Gaza, 2130 hours. Shots are reported to have been fired from a passing vehicle into an orange grove on Sawafir Sharki lands near the main GadJaffa road. At 0800 hours on 11 January, 1948, the body of a labourer, Abdul Khader Mohammed En Nasri of Jaffa, was found in the grove. He has sustained bullet wounds. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

14 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 0730 hours, Jaffa. Abdul Fattah Hassan Khalil, an employee of the Palestine Railways, was shot and injured in the foot while walking in Jaffa Railway Station. The bullet came from the direction of a house occupied by Jews and situated north of the station. He was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. His condition is not serious. CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

14 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 1000 hours, Jaffa. Two unidentified Arabs were shot and killed by unknown persons in Arlin Street, Manshieh Quarter. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

20 JANUARY 1948 1430 hours, Jaffa. On the Manshieh beach, Abed Mohammed Jerieh (25) and Khader Mohammed El Jaber (201, both of Manshieh, were hit by bullets fired from the direction of Tel Aviv. The first named was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa, but was found to be dead on arrival. Jaber was admitted to the Dajani Hospital in serious condition. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

20 JANUARY 1948 1430 hours, Jaffa. On the Manshieh beach, Abed Mohammed Jerieh (25) and Khader Mohammed El Jaber (201, both of Manshieh, were hit by bullets fired from the direction of Tel Aviv. The first named was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa, but was found to be dead on arrival. Jaber was admitted to the Dajani Hospital in serious condition. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

20 JANUARY 1948 1630 hours, Jaffa. In Salameh Road, a woman, Sisteh Nesrameh (33, of Jaffa, was hit in the arm by a bullet fired from the direction of Tel Aviv. She was admitted to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. Her condition is not serious. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

21 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 0001 hours, Jaffa. A party of Jews opened fire on the Municipal Slaughter House on the Jaffa/Jerusalem road, causing no known casualties or damage. A quantity of first aid kit and bottles containing what is believed to be an incendiary liquid were left behind by the attackers. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

21 JANUARY 1948 0900 hours, Jaffa. Following a report that armed Jews, who had arrived in a truck, had been seen digging holes north of Jaffa Railway Station, police found four gun emplacements and an unexploded mortar bomb. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

21 JANUARY 1948 1100 hours, Jaffa. Ten Arab houses in Arlin Street were blown up by Jews, the explosions being followed by heavy firing. No casualties have been reported. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

21 JANUARY 1948 Jewish terrorists were seen trying to enter certain Arab houses in the border area of Jaffa-Tel Aviv. </SPAN></SPAN>

22 JANUARY 1948 1100 hours, Bassa Lands, Jaffa. The following persons were shot on BassaLands by Jewish snipers, believed to have been positioned in the vicinity of the Spirit Factory in Abu Kebir on the JaffaIJerusalem road: Dead - Sulieman Hassan Nattar (25), of Trans-Jordan. Seriously injured - 1) Abdul Khadar Nattar (28), of Trans-Jordan; 2) Harned Naher Saleh Tadder (25), of Trans-Jordan; 3) Mohammed Hajeh Hijaz, of Bassa; 4) Mohammed Zafer Hijazi, of Bassa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

22 JANUARY 1948 1800 hours, Jaffa. The body of Abdul Natif Omar (25), of Nablus, was admitted to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. He had been shot dead by Jewish snipers near the Spirit Factory in the Abu Kebir area. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

23 JANUARY 1948 1345 hours, Jaffa. At Salama village, Sheikh Ibrahim Moghrabi, aged 21, of Salama, sustained severe bullet wounds in the back when fired upon by Jewish snipers. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

23 JANUARY 1948 1511 hours, Jaffa. Arab traffic was fired upon from one of the Miqveh Israel Colony orange groves, and the fire was returned by the crew of an armoured car. No casualties have been reported. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3855 </SPAN></SPAN>

25 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 1145 hours, Jaffa. Two Arab houses in Arlin Street, Manshieh Quarter, were blown up by Jews and completely destroyed. No casualties have been reported. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

25 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 1300 hours, Jaffa. The body of Mohammed Khalil Khalaf, aged 20 of Manshieh Quarter, who is stated to have been killed by a bomb thrown from the Manshieh Quarter during the morning, was admitted to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

25 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 1700 hours, Jaffa. The following casualties were caused when a bomb exploded in an Arab house in Jabaliya Quarter: Dead - Shafic El Asfar (25); Sami El Asfar (30). </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

27 JANUARY 1948 Lydda. 1745 hours, Jaffa. In Manshieh Quarter, Mohammed Khalil Omar, aged 20 of Qalqiliya, was seriously wounded in the stomach by a bullet fired by a Jewish sniper from the direction of Tel Aviv. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

1 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1645 hours, Jaffa. Hula1 Salim (451, of Jaffa, was admitted to the Government Hospital with a bullet wound in his side. His condition is serious. He was shot from the direction of Tel Aviv while walking on Bassa Lands. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

1 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1700 hours, Jaffa. Ismail Salmi Hussein (43, of Jaffa, was shot on Bassa Lands by a bullet from the direction of Tel Aviv. He was removed to the Government Hospital, where his condition is not serious.</SPAN></SPAN>

2 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. Approximately 1645 hours, Jaffa. Unknown persons blew up the houses of Mohammed Natour and Ali Sambo, the bakeries of Abu Sbuhi El Asfour and Subhi El Asfour and an Arab Girls' School, all situated in Hassan Bey Street. Damage is roughly estimated at LP, 70,000. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

4 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 0730 hours, Jaffa. Whilst walking near an Arab road block on the Jerusalem road on the outskirt of Jaffa, Ibrahim Hanna Bamdah, aged 20 of Jaffa, and a thirty-yearold Arab woman from Jaffa named Hameeni were shot and killed by unknown persons.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

8 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1450 hours. In the Manshieh Quarter, Naif Yusef Saleh Ed Din of Syria, who was living in Jaffa, was shot and slightly wounded by snipers. He was removed to the Government Hospital where his condition is reported to be not serious. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

10 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. The house of Mohammed Salim Kalha in the Manshieh Quarter of Jaffa was burnt and completely destroyed by Jews. The damage is estimated at LP.8,000. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

11 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 2200 hours, Jaffa. In Ajami Road, Jaffa, Yousef Salah Ed Din (30) of Beit Rima, Ramallah Sub-District, was shot in the head and killed by unknown persons. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

12 FEBRUARY 1948 Cemeteries of all the Christian communities in Jaffa are grouped in one locality, each having its own guard. Zionist terrorists from the neighbouring Jewish settlement of Bath Yom opened fire and hurled hand grenades on the Christian cemeteries. Five Christian Arabs were killed, including three girls aged five, eight and eleven. </SPAN></SPAN>
United Nations Security Council Official Records, Supplements - 1948. </SPAN></SPAN>

12/13 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. Night, 12/13 February, 1948, Jaffa. It is reported that the house of Eid Hasim Esh Shatra in Jebaliya Quarter was destroyed by Jews. The damage is estimated at LP. 7,200. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

13 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1030 hours, Jaffa. A party of Jews directed fire from three mortars at the Jaffa Railway Station Goods Yard. The bombs exploded causing no damage or casualties. The attack was accompanied by small arms fire for approximately five minutes. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

13 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1300 hours, Jaffa. The following persons were injured when a mortar bomb struck their house in Jabaliya Quarter: Seriously Injured - Fattah Sawan (20). Slightly injured - Othman Sawan (12); Ina'am bint Mahmoud Sawan; Mafeedem bint Mahmoud Sawan (10). All were removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856</SPAN></SPAN>


15 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1230 hours, Jaffa. Three of four mortar bombs, believed to have been fired from Tel Aviv, exploded in the area of Jaffa Railway Station. There were no casualties. Municipal Police replied with rifle fire with no known results. CO 537/3856</SPAN></SPAN>

16 FEBRUARY, 1948 Lydda. 1500 hours, Jaffa. In the Jabaliya Quarter, Ihsan Said Masri (35) of Jaffa was shot dead by a Jewish sniper from Holon. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

17 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 0030 to 0600 hours, Jaffa/T.A. border area. Numerous explosions and automatic fire were heard from the Abu KebirJSalameh Road and Tel Er Rish areas. No casualties were reported. Jews were alleged to be firing from the Hatiqva Quarter to Holon under cover of this fire. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

20 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 21 30 hours, Jaffa. Abdul Mahdi El Azzar (23) of Jebeliya Quarter was shot and killed by Jewish snipers. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

22 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1130 hours, Jaffa. In Manshieh Quarter, Ali Abu Adwan (35) of Manshieh Quarter was shot in the head by a Jewish sniper firing from Tel Aviv. He died in the French Hospital at 1430 hours. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

22 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1200 hours, Jaffa. At Tel Er Rish, Kassim Mohammed Saleh (20) of Tel Er Rish was shot by a Jewish sniper and died from his wounds upon admission to the French Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

22 FEBRUARY 1948 1230 hours, Arab bus fired on between Jaffa and Ramle. 2 Arabs wounded. </SPAN></SPAN>
WO 261/573 </SPAN></SPAN>

22 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1500 hours, Jaffa. Mohammed Othman Khalil Boutanji (22) of Dura village was shot and slightly wounded by unknown persons on Bassa lands. He was removed to the Dajani Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

22 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1600 hours, Jaffa. In Manshieh Quarter, Amneh bint Sulieman El Ashi (12) of Manshieh Quarter was shot in the abdomen and seriously wounded by unknown persons. She succumbed to her injuries at 2130 hours in the Dajani Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

23 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 0930 hours, Jaffa. In the Jabaliya Quarter, Hassan Hussein Saleh (3 1) of Jabaliya was wounded in the right hand by a bullet from the direction of Bat Yam brewery. He was slightly injured and discharged after treatment at the Govemment Hospital, Jaffa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

23 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 1515 hours, Jaffa. In Jaffa Port, Abed Abdullah Halabi (30) of Jaffa was shot and slightly wounded in the leg by unknown persons. He was removed to the Government Hospital. His condition is not serious. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

25 FEBRUARY 1948 Lydda. 2200 hours, Jaffa. The body of Samis Khorub (27) of Jabaliya Quarter was admitted to the Government Hospital. He had been killed when a mortar bomb exploded in the Jabaliya Quarter. Two other Arabs were at the same time admitted to the hospital, suffering from shock caused by the same explosion. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

1 MARCH 1948 Lydda. Morning, Jaffa. In Tel Er Rish, Ahmed Mustafa Ahmed (27) of Tel Er Rish was shot and killed by unknown persons. His body was taken to the French Hospital, Jaffa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856</SPAN></SPAN>

2 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 0940 hours, Jaffa. Jewish snipers positioned in a house between the Migdem Chocolate Factory and a distillery on the Assem Bey Road commenced firing into the area between the Jaffa/Jerusalem road and the Abu Kebir track. An Arab woman, Aisha Hassan Sadem (45) of Jaffa, was seriously wounded. She was removed to the Government Hospital. A military armoured car in the vicinity was fired on. A police armoured car returned the fire with no known result. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

2 MARCH 1948 Lydda, Jaffa. Ahmed Taher of Manshiya Quarter, complains that during recent disturbances, his house and shop in Carmel Street were blown up and completely destroyed. The value of the property is estimated at LP. 5,500. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

4 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 0200 until 0230 hours, Jaffa. Several explosions and heavy firing were heard from the Bassa lands area. It was subsequently revealed that an Arab owned textile factory on Salameh Road was blown up and completely destroyed. There were no known casualties. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

5 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1645 hours, Jaffa. A police armoured car patrolling the Abu Kebir area reported that a low-flying monoplane opened fire with automatic weapons into Abu Kebir. Arab witnesses state that this machine also dropped two grenades in the vicinity of the Iron Foundry on the JaffaIJerusalem road. </SPAN></SPAN>

Mohammed Ibrahim Berbasi was admitted to the Dajani Hospital with a bullet wound in the thigh which he stated was caused by fire from a low-flying plane over Tel Arish. A later account described the 'plane as being light grey or white with R.A.F. markings on both wings, and the letters 'VOL' and some figures on the fuselage. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

8 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 0700 hours, Jaffa. Ahmed Arhan Abu Fammad (32) of Tell Er Rish, who was admitted to the French Hospital at 0500 hours, suffering from wounds received from an exploding mortar bomb in the Tell Er Rish quarter, succumbed to his injuries. The bomb is said to have been fired from the direction of Holon. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

8 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 0930 hours, Jaffa. Mohammed Abdullah Yanani (30) of Jaffa, was shot and fatally injured in Arlin Street, Manshieh, by a Jewish sniper. The body was removed to the Dajani Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

8 MARCH 1948 Lydda. Approximately 2200 hours, Jaffa. Hassan Khalil Sarkoury (26) of Jebeliya Quarter was injured in the right shoulder when a bomb was thrown by Jews on the Bat Yam/Jebeliya border. He was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. His condition is not serious. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

9 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 0930 hours, Jaffa. In the Jabaliyeh Quarter, Shafiq Ahmed (22) was wounded in the head by splinters believed to have been caused by a mortar bomb. He was removed to Government Hospital, condition not serious. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

10 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1510 hours, Jaffa. Arabs employed at the iron foundry situated on the JaffaIJerusalem road near Holon were fired upon by Jews from the direction of Miqve Israel colony. The Arabs returned the fire, which ceased when police armoured cars appeared on the scene. There were no casualties. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856</SPAN></SPAN>

13/14 MARCH 1948 Jerusalem. Night, Jaffa. On Bassa lands, the ice factory of Hassan Tewfic Abu Ghazaleh, of Jaffa, was attacked by Jews, with mortars and small arms fire. The factory watchman, Ibrahim Getani (22) of Jaffa, was slightly injured and removed to the Dejani Hospital. The building was partly demolished, damage being estimated at approximately LP. 6,000. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

14 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 0130 hours, Jaffa. In the Abu Kebir Quarter, Ali Hassan el Weish (23) of that quarter was killed by snipers. His body was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

16 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1530 hours, Jaffa. In Tel er Rish Yousef Ali Abdul Khalil(26), of Mi'ilya village, was shot and fatally wounded by snipers from the Holon area. His body was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

18 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1430 hours, Jaffa. On Bassa lands, Ahmed Hussein Tustani (35), of Hebron, was shot and fatally wounded by a sniper from the direction of Tel Aviv. The body was removed to the Dajani Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

18 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1500 hours, Jaffa. The body of Said Butros (25) of Tel er Rish was admitted to the French Hospital in Jaffa. He had been killed by snipers' bullets in Tel er Rish. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

18 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1630 hours, Jaffa. Jews blew up eight unoccupied Arab houses in Arlin Street, Manshieh Quarter. They also fired at the Manshieh Police Station and at a police armoured car which approached the scene. The fire was returned by the police, but there were no known casualties. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

19 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1030 hours, Tel Aviv. A Jewish snipers' position in Abu Kebir Quarter directed moderate automatic fire into Salama Road, Jaffa. A police arrnoured car proceeded to the scene at approximately 1 100 hours, and the area then became quiet. No casualties have been reported. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3856 </SPAN></SPAN>

22/23 MARCH 1948 Lydda. Between 2350 hours 22 March, 1948, and 0145 hours 23 March, 1948, Jaffa. Jebeliya Quarter was attacked by Jews. During the course of the attack, eleven houses and a small mosque were demolished, believed by mortars. The following casualties were admitted to the Government Hospital from the quarter on the morning of 23 March, 1948: Seriously Injured- Dahiel Eissa Ed Dibis (45); Mohammed Marouf El Kaban (35); Abdul Fattah Samara (27). </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

23 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1130 hours, Jaffa. Jewish snipers near Bassa lands commenced firing into King George Avenue, Jaffa. Two Arabs were killed, Ali Darwish Wazieh (12) of Jaffa and Hassan Muharram (30) of Jaffa. At approximately 1230 hours, the Jewish snipers post was silenced by military using two pounders. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

24 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 0230 hours, Jaffa. Several heavy mortar bombs fired from the direction of Tel Aviv in the area of the Hassan Bey Mosque. Some damage was caused to the surrounding wall of the Mosque and to a nearby house. No casualties have been reported. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

24 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1500 hours, Jaffa. Ahmed Sabri el Rehawi (20) of Syria, was slightly wounded in the leg by a bullet fired by unknown persons near the Bat Yam Mental Home. He was admitted to the Government Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

24 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1935 hours, Jaffa. Jews from Abu Kebir opened fire with mortars on the flour mill in Salama Road. Arabs replied and firing was still continuing at 2000 hours. No further details are yet available. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

25 MARCH 1948 Lydda. 1600 hours, Jaffa. Ali Morffi el Rahidi (35) of Egypt was admitted to the Government Hospital suffering from a bullet wound in the back which he sustained when a Jewish armoured car fired at him in Zarmuqa village. His condition is serious. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

25 MARCH 1948 Lydda, Jaffa. The house of Farid Jaber in Karton Quarter was destroyed by fire in unknown circumstances. The damage caused is estimated at L.P. 5,000. On the same day at Jaber's orange grove, situated in Salameh village, damage estimated at L.P. 13,000 is stated to have been caused by Jews using explosive charges. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857</SPAN></SPAN>

1 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 0955 hours, Jaffa. A mortar bomb, believed to have been fired from Bat Yam, exploded on the house of Assad El Dejani, near Ajami P.S. Slight damage was sustained by the building, but no casualties were caused.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857</SPAN></SPAN>

1 APRIL 1948 Lydda, Jaffa. Salim Rajab Sha'aban El Moghrabi reports that his house on the Bat YamlJebeliya border was demolished by Jewish mortar fire.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857</SPAN></SPAN>

2 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 1700 hours, Jaffa. Ali Abu Hajas (30), of Manshieh Quarter, was shot and seriously wounded by Jewish snipers in Arlin Street. He was removed to the Dajani Hospital.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857</SPAN></SPAN>

3 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 0700 hours, Jaffa. Mohammed Ahmed Eissa (291, of Egypt, was shot and slightly injured by Jewish snipers in the Karm Et Tut area. He was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857</SPAN></SPAN>

3 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 1100 hours, Jaffa. Four mortar bombs, believed to have been fired from Tel Aviv area, and one mine exploded in the Suq El Yehud causing damage to unoccupied property. The exploding of the mine is believed to have been detonated by one of the bombs. No casualties have been reported.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

3 APRIL 1948 Lydda. Night, Jaffa. An Arab house, situated in the Jebaliyeh Quarter of Jaffa, was blown up and extensively damaged by Jews and an occupant, Fathmi Shlean (68), was killed.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857</SPAN></SPAN>

3 APRIL 1948 Lydda, Jaffa. Mohammed Ahmed Eissa, of Kami Et Tut, was shot and seriously injured, by unknown persons, whilst in his village. He was removed to the Government Hospital, Jaffa, where he died shortly after admission.</SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857</SPAN></SPAN>

6 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 1630 hours, Jaffa. Jews opened fire on swimmers near the Jaffa Club. The following casualties were caused: Dead - Subhi Ibn Adib Jabour (27), of Jaffa. Serious - Mohammed Ibn Akawi (12), of Jaffa. Slight - Mohammed Mahmoud Kana'an (20), of Jaffa. CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

8 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 0 100 hours, Jaffa. Jews opened mortar fire on the Manshieh Quarter and bombs fell near the Manshieh Police Station and in the Jaffa railway yard. A municipal policeman, No. 1 13, Abdullah Eissa Salim (26), of Jaffa, was slightly injured by splinters whilst on duty in the Suq el Yehud. A house in the railway yard was destroyed, and Hassan Abu Shimes (35), of Manshieh, was seriously injured. Three mortar bombs exploded in the vicinity of the C.S. Jaffa, and the following two Arabs were injured: Deeb Ahmed Hamed (60), of Jaffa - serious; Yousef Abu Jabrin Bader (25), of Jaffa - not serious. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

10 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 1445 hours, Jaffa. Ahmed Abu Kalim (23), of Manshieh Quarter, was shot and seriously wounded by Jewish snipers whilst in Qaswan Street. He was removed to the Dajani Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

10 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 1730 hours, Jaffa. Moussa Madon (23), of Ajami Quarter, was shot and killed and Lutfi Ghawi (25), also of Ajami, was slightly wounded while they were walking in El Lisaf Street. Both were hit by shots fired from the direction of the Railway Station and were removed to the French Hospital. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

10 APRIL 1948 Lydda. 1810 hours, Jaffa. Mohammed Abdul Rahman Jainaf (55), of Jaffa, was shot and slightly injuredin Manshieh Quarter by a Jewish sniper. He was removed to the French Hospital, Jaffa. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3857 </SPAN></SPAN>

14 APRIL 1948 0230 hours to 0600 hours, 14 April, Jews mortared Jaffa, particularly Manshiya Quarter. No known casualty. </SPAN></SPAN>
WO 275/66 </SPAN></SPAN>

25 APRIL 1948 Irgun Z'vai Leumi attack Jaffa. Army intervenes and fighting stops. Approximately fifty Arab casualties. Jews blow two gaps in the bridge at Jisr al Majami. Army reoccupies Sheikh Jarrah, meeting initial resistance from Hagana, but later a truce is negotiated and both sides ordered cease fire. Two Jews killed and two wounded. Four British Soldiers slightly wounded. Jews attack At Tireh, south of Haifa. </SPAN></SPAN>
WO 261/574 </SPAN></SPAN>

26 APRIL 1948 1030 hours, 26 April, 2 R IR F road block at Jaffa congested by Arab lorries and buses carrying refugees. Congestion cleared and traffic passing road block estimated at rate of 20 vehicles per hour. Refugees fired on by Jewish sniper as they moved off. No casualty. </SPAN></SPAN>
WO 275/66 </SPAN></SPAN>

26 APRIL 1948 At 1135 hours, 26th April, there was heavy mortaring of Manshieh Quarter, Jaffa, and Manshieh Police Station was attacked by Jews with arrnoured cars, grenades and small arms. No casualties yet reported. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 733/477 </SPAN></SPAN>

26 APRIL 1948 Tel Aviv-Jaffa. Jews attacked Arab quarter Jaffa with mortars and automatics and penetrated as far as the railway station. The Mayor of Tel Aviv was told that unless attack was stopped, military would employ force. This had the desired effect, and the situation is now quiet. Fifty Arab civilians are believed killed. </SPAN></SPAN>
CO 537/3875 </SPAN></SPAN>

On 24 April 1948, the Irgun militant Zionist organization opened an attack on the Manshiyeh residential quarter of Jaffa, a narrow Palestinian suburb located beside the sea and largely surrounded by Tel Aviv. For four days and nights, under the direction of Menachem Begin, the Irgun indiscriminately shelled the quarter with mortars. </SPAN></SPAN>

Hansard, the official record of proceedings in the U.K. Parliament, reported:</SPAN></SPAN>

"On the 5th of May, 1948, the question of the attack by the Irgun Z'vai Leumi on Jaffa was raised. The Secretary of State for the Colonies was asked whether he had any statement to make on the present situation in Jaffa. Mr. Rees-Williams, the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies answered as follows: </SPAN></SPAN>

In the early hours of 28th [sic] April a heavy attack on the Arab town of Jaffa was made by the Irgun Zvai Leumi, the method adopted being an indiscriminate mortar bombardment, apparently designed to create panic among the civilian inhabitants. British forces intervened, supported by aircraft, and in the course of the afternoon the Jews retired to their original positions. By nightfall the border was quiet except for occasional sniping. A cease-fire was ordered for both sides by the military commander and was observed. British troops then occupied a line between Arabs and Jews on the Tel-Aviv- Jaffa border. On the evening of 30th April, the cease-fire order was broken by fire from the Jewish side, which was quickly silenced by military action. Latest reports indicate that the town is now quiet. As a rough estimate, some 30,000 Arabs left Jaffa and more are leaving. The Arab mayor is still in Jaffa and municipal services are functioning, although with difficulty... ". (Hansard, House of Commons Debates, May 5, 1948, p. 1238).</SPAN></SPAN>

The day after the Irgun offensive began, Haganah troops launched Operation Chametz against Jaffa, to isolate and conquer the city.</SPAN></SPAN>

By the end of April, the combined Haganah-Irgun offensive had completely encircled Jaffa. Three weeks earlier, the Irgun had attacked the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin. The civilian population of Jaffa was well aware of what had happened to the inhabitants of Deir Yassin when the Irgun overran their village, and fear that the same would happen at the fall of Jaffa was influential on the decision of many residents to flee: </SPAN></SPAN>

"We all heard about the massacre. I remember that I read extensive coverage of the horrors in our press, which republished a story from The New York Times. Besides this terrifying news, the Arabs in Jaffa feared they would not be able to defend their honour if they were attacked by the Jews. They were afraid that their women would be subject to the humiliation of Deir Yassin. I was young, but I sensed just how much this worried the people in Jaffa. Having four sisters was enough reason for us to leave, as the Jews considered everything and everyone in the villages they invaded as theirs."</SPAN>
</SPAN>(--Abdel-Qader Yassin, interviewed by Amira Howeidy.</SPAN> </SPAN>
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/1948/jaffa1.htm )</SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________ _____</SPAN>
</SPAN>
Note:</SPAN> Details of the attacks on Jaffa, January to April 1948, are taken from the </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem</SPAN></SPAN> (http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Palestine-Problem-Issa-Nakhleh/dp/096228811X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233342195&sr=8-1)</SPAN>, by Issa Nakhleh.</SPAN> (</SPAN>Intercontinental Books, November 1991; ISBN: 978-0962288111.) A</SPAN></SPAN>vailable on-line at: http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com/</SPAN>
</SPAN>
The alphanumeric reference number at the end of each report refers to the file number under which the original source material is archived at the U.K. National Archives (formerly the Public Records Office) in Kew, London:
</SPAN></SPAN>


CO 537/3855 = Confidential reports from the British Criminal Investigation Dept (C.I.D.) to the U.K. Colonial Office on Outrages in Palestine, 1947-48. </SPAN></SPAN>

CO 537/3856: Confidential reports from the British Criminal Investigation Dept (C.I.D.) to the U.K. Colonial Office on Outrages in Palestine, Feb-Mar 1948. </SPAN></SPAN>

WO 261/573: Confidential quarterly reports from British Army H.Q. in Palestine to the U.K. War Office, Jan-Mar 1948. </SPAN></SPAN>

WO 275/64: Confidential fortnightly newsletters from the H.Q. of the British Sixth Airborne Division in Palestine to the U.K. War Office, Mar 1947-May 1948. </SPAN></SPAN>

CO 537/3857: Confidential reports from the British Criminal Investigation Dept (C.I.D.) to the U.K. Colonial Office on Outrages in Palestine, Mar-Apr 1948. </SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________ _____</SPAN></SPAN>

[tell-tale]

-- Not all of them in Jaffa, but other instances of the ongoing, wanton Zionist terror against unarmed and innocent civilians, including children, in the five-and-a-half months leading up to the Arab nations’ counter-attack against the Zionist forces:</SPAN></SPAN>
__________________________________________________ _____________________

</SPAN></SPAN>
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d28970b-200wi</SPAN> (http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d28970b-pi)http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d79970b-250wi</SPAN> (http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d79970b-pi)
- Unidentified Palestinian girl (below left), one of the victims of a bomb attack in Jerusalem on 29 December 1947. Members of the Irgun militant Zionist group threw a bomb from a passing taxi at a bus (below right) in the Palestinian residential quarter near Herod's Gate, killing 17 Palestinian civilians. (Walid Khalidi, </SPAN></SPAN>Before Their Diaspora</SPAN> (http://www.amazon.com/Before-Their-Diaspora-Photographic-Palestinians/dp/0887282288)).</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________ ___________</SPAN></SPAN>

On 4 January 1948,</SPAN> Zionist militants blew up the local government offices in Jaffa, killing 26 Palestinian civilians:</SPAN></SPAN>


__________________________________________________ ____________</SPAN>
</SPAN>__________________________________________________ ____________

- Five Palestinian children of the Abu Suwan family, killed when militant Zionists blew up the Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem.</SPAN></SPAN>

5 JANUARY 1948</SPAN> Haganah terrorists made a most barbarous attack at one o'clock in the early morning of Monday, 5 January 1948, at the Semiramis hotel in the Katamon section of Jerusalem, killing innocent people and wounding many. The Jewish Agency terrorist forces blasted the entrance to the hotel by a small bomb and then placed bombs in the basement of the building. As a result of the explosions, the whole building collapsed with its residents. As the terrorists withdrew, they started shooting at the houses in the neighborhood. </SPAN></SPAN>
Those killed were: Subhi El-Taher, Moslem; Mary Masoud, Christian; Georgette Khoury, Christian; Abas Awad, Moslem; Nazira Lorenzo, Christian; Mary Lorenzo, Christian; Mohammed Saleh Ahmed, Moslem; Ashur Abed El Razik, Moslem; Ismail Abed El Aziz, Moslem; Ambeer Lorenzo, Christian; Raof Lorenzo, Christian; Abu Suwan, Christian family, seven members, husband, wife and five children. Beside those killed, 16 more were wounded, among them women and children.</SPAN></SPAN>
- From United Nations Security Council Official Records, Supplements for 1948 - Palestine. (via the </SPAN></SPAN>Encyclopaedia of Palestine</SPAN></SPAN> (http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com/EPP/Chapter07_1of7.htm))</SPAN>
</SPAN>
</SPAN> (http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e201156f7f560e970c-pi)_______________________________________________ _______ </SPAN></SPAN>

__________________________________________________ ____

- Eight Palestinian children under the age of fourteen were killed when a Zionist militant planted a bomb in the suq in Ramleh, Palestine.</SPAN></SPAN>

18 FEBRUARY 1948</SPAN> At 2:30 in the afternoon, an Irgun Z'vai Leumi terrorist disguised as an Arab and riding a donkey, arrived at the Ramleh vegetable market. The terrorist started to bargain for some vegetables from a woman vendor, paid her the price and asked her to look after his donkey and the basket on its back, while the terrorist left, saying he was going to buy some meat from an adjacent market. </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
In less then ten minutes the mines and high explosives in the basket exploded killing 12 and wounding 43 persons. Among the killed were four children less then ten years of age and four less than fourteen. </SPAN></SPAN>
The explosion was so terrible that it was impossible to identify more than one of the victims. The Palestine Government official communique describing this incident said that pieces of the heads, hands, legs and internal parts of the dead were gathered from places two miles away from the scene of the explosion.</SPAN> </SPAN>
-- From United Nations Security Council Official Records, Supplements for 1948 - Palestine. (via the </SPAN></SPAN>Encyclopaedia of Palestine</SPAN></SPAN> (http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com/EPP/Chapter07_1of7.htm))
</SPAN></SPAN>
__________________________________________________ _</SPAN></SPAN>


…well </SPAN>before</SPAN> any surrounding Arab states ever attacked Israel!</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
__________________________________________________ _


--If you consider ANY of the above to be "legitimate collateral damage of a war the Arabs started'(sic), (rather than murder and massacres of innocent civilians!), then by the same logic, you must EQUALLY affirm that "all the casualties of 9-11 were legitimate collateral damage of a war the USA started."(sic)
--NOT that I'm making that latter claim, but the LOGIC is the same!</SPAN></SPAN>

[tell-tale]

-- Not all of them in Jaffa, but other instances of the ongoing, wanton Zionist terror against unarmed and innocent civilians, </SPAN>including children,</SPAN> in the five-and-a-half months leading up to the Arab nations’ counter-attack against the Zionist forces:</SPAN>
__________________________________________________ _____________________</SPAN>


http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d28970b-200wi</SPAN> (http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d28970b-pi)http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d79970b-250wi</SPAN> (http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2011570752d79970b-pi)
- Unidentified Palestinian girl (below left), one of the victims of a bomb attack in Jerusalem on 29 December 1947. Members of the Irgun militant Zionist group threw a bomb from a passing taxi at a bus (below right) in the Palestinian residential quarter near Herod's Gate, killing 17 Palestinian civilians. (Walid Khalidi, Before Their Diaspora (http://www.amazon.com/Before-Their-Diaspora-Photographic-Palestinians/dp/0887282288)).

__________________________________________________ ___________

On 4 January 1948, Zionist militants blew up the local government offices in Jaffa, killing 26 Palestinian civilians:

</SPAN>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Grand_Serai,_Jaffa.jpg</SPAN>
Jaffa: Ruins of the Grand Serai (local government offices) after the Stern Gang blew it up with a truck bomb, January 4, 1948

__________________________________________________ ____________
__________________________________________________ ____________

- Five Palestinian children of the Abu Suwan family were killed when militant Zionists blew up the Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Semiramis_Hotel.jpg

5 JANUARY 1948 Haganah terrorists made a most barbarous attack at one o'clock in the early morning of Monday, 5 January 1948, at the Semiramis hotel in the Katamon section of Jerusalem, killing innocent people and wounding many. The Jewish Agency terrorist forces blasted the entrance to the hotel by a small bomb and then placed bombs in the basement of the building. As a result of the explosions, the whole building collapsed with its residents. As the terrorists withdrew, they started shooting at the houses in the neighborhood. Some 26 people were killed.

Those killed were: Subhi El-Taher, Moslem; Mary Masoud, Christian; Georgette Khoury, Christian; Abas Awad, Moslem; Nazira Lorenzo, Christian; Mary Lorenzo, Christian; Mohammed Saleh Ahmed, Moslem; Ashur Abed El Razik, Moslem; Ismail Abed El Aziz, Moslem; Ambeer Lorenzo, Christian; Raof Lorenzo, Christian; Abu Suwan, Christian family, seven members, husband, wife and five children. Beside those killed, 16 more were wounded, among them women and children.

__________________________________________________ ____

__________________________________________________ ____

- Eight Palestinian children under the age of fourteen were killed when a Zionist militant planted a bomb in the suq in Ramleh, Palestine.

18 FEBRUARY 1948 At 2:30 in the afternoon, an Irgun Z'vai Leumi terrorist disguised as an Arab and riding a donkey, arrived at the Ramleh vegetable market. The terrorist started to bargain for some vegetables from a woman vendor, paid her the price and asked her to look after his donkey and the basket on its back, while the terrorist left, saying he was going to buy some meat from an adjacent market.
In less then ten minutes the mines and high explosives in the basket exploded killing 12 and wounding 43 persons. Among the killed were four children less then ten years of age and four less than fourteen.
The explosion was so terrible that it was impossible to identify more than one of the victims. The Palestine Government official communique describing this incident said that pieces of the heads, hands, legs and internal parts of the dead were gathered from places two miles away from the scene of the explosion.
-- From United Nations Security Council Official Records, Supplements for 1948 - Palestine. (via the Encyclopaedia of Palestine (http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com/EPP/Chapter07_1of7.htm))

__________________________________________________ _

http://en.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/77/Manshiyeh.jpg
Jaffa - ruins of the Manshiyeh quarter, after indiscriminate bombardment by the Irgun, 25-29. April, 1948
…well before any surrounding Arab states ever attacked Israel!
__________________________________________________ _


--If you consider ANY of the above to be "legitimate collateral damage of a war the Arabs started'(sic), (rather than murder and massacres of innocent civilians!), then by the same logic, you must EQUALLY affirm that "all the casualties of 9-11 were legitimate collateral damage of a war the USA started."(sic)
--NOT that I'm making that latter claim, but the LOGIC is the same!</SPAN>

[Trigg]

“It’s not what he doesn’t know that bothers me;
It’s what he knows for damn sure, but that’s just plain wrong!”

Gaffer says:

"A Zionist is someone that wants to re-establish the land of Israel. Since that has been done, there are no more Zionists. Zionist is now just a term to mean Jews or Israelis, that way people like jafar can get away with calling them nasty Zionists without the racial connotations. The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied."

"The names and wordings have been carefully researched and applied." ?!

--> Apparently, not carefully enough, because much of this brief statement is wholly inaccurate and untrue...

Especially the statements that, now, "there are no more Zionists"(sic!)

and: "Zionist is now just a term to mean Jews or Israelis."(sic!)

There were many Jews who were opposed to Zionism, and there are many who are still opposed to Zionism, and to the specifically Zionist policies (read, in this context, the racist, anti-Palestinian policies) of the state of Israel. They are frequently conveniently dismissed by Zionist Jews as being "self-hating Jews", but Jews they are, albeit, anti-Zionist, and in some cases, anti-Israeli Jews. Go read up on Alfred Lilienthal, as well as on the Neturei Karta sect of Orthodox Jews!

Zionism, since its modern inception under Herzl, Landau, et al, has always been intrinsically predicated upon the expulsion and dispossession of the Palestinians, (even though there have also been some more gentle and idealistic Jews who also considered themselves to be Zionists, but who desired to live together in harmony with the Arab natives of Palestine), the prevailing strain of Zionism has always been committed to denying the Palestinians their rights!

Some critics of Israeli and Zionist policy use this term - Zionist – in order not to be anti-semitic; so as not to tar all Jews with the same brush: to avoid incorrectly incriminating all Jews -- and even all other Israelis – when some of them do not support these hard-line policies, but are trying to work for peace, and justice, and reconciliation.

They say "Zionist" rather than "Jew" because they do not want to be anti-semitic, and do not want to accuse all Jews of the crimes of the majority of Jews -- just as in the 1930s, there were also some principled Germans, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and those in the Confessing Church, who, despite being German citizens and living under the Nazi dictatorship, were nevertheles opposed to the Nazis; So too, there are some Jews who oppose the ideology and the crimes of Zionism.

Albert Einstein, for instance, was asked by the Israelis (i.e., Ben-Gurion) to be the second president of Israel in 1952 – namely because he was the most famous, and most widely respected Jew in the world. Einstein, however, declined the offer, having already condemned Zionism in the strongest possible terms. For instance, in a letter dated April 10, 1948, Einstein had written:

“When a real and final catastrophe should befall us in Palestine the first responsible for it would be the British and the second responsible for it the Terrorist organizations build up from our own ranks.
I am not willing to see anybody associated with those misled and criminal people.”

And this even though as a Jew, Einstein had originally supported Zionism. He ceased to be a Zionist not because the State of Israel had been established, but because of the manner in which it had been established!

But go and read up on the Neturei Karta; and get a copy (available used) of Alfred Lilienthal's book "What Price Israel?", and study the documentation he provides!!

And because not all Jews who were present in Palestine in 1948 supported or participated the crimes of the Zionists, but one also can't correctly use the term "Israeli" to refer to them until after May 15th, then -- especially when referring to their government-in-waiting in the decades before independence, (i.e., the Jewish Executive, and various other administrative bodies and committees); and to the actions of the Haganah, the Palmach, the Irgun, and the Stern Gang, especially during the period from November 29, 1947 through May 14, 1948, referring to them as “Zionists”, or as “the Zionist forces”, rather than as “Jews” is generally the more correct, and the most specific term.

It is, in fact, primarily those who are outright anti-semites who can refer to them simply as “the Jews”, without making any further qualifications or distinctions…!


please be sure to post a link when copying and pasting

[tell-tale]

Mr. Tell-Tale... The mass graves were created by people collecting the dead of the war from the streets and interring them quickly in existing tombs according to the Arab and Jewish Custom. The dead of battle were quickly and unceremoniously dumped in these mass graves.

A local fisherman Atar Zeinab, 80, said that as a teenager during the final months of fighting in 1948 he helped to collect the Arab dead in the area south of Jaffa.

They were then brought for a quick burial in the cemetery, the area’s main graveyard.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334205/Mass-grave-uncovered-containing-dozens-Palestinians-killed-1948-war-founded-Israel.html#ixzz2WtugUukN



There you have it... WAR DEAD... Not Murder...Not War Crimes... Nobody was pushed into the sea..

This from an Arab that helped collect the bodies...

These were not atrocities... these were casualties of a war started by the combined Arab Nations in 1948.
_______________________________________________

Note: the "according to the Arab and Jewish custom"(sic) statement in the original article is itself a misprint! -- because: being "quickly and unceremoniously dumped in these mass graves", (without the usual rituals or preparation (i.e., washing and shrouding of the corpse, and prayers), was NOT according to Arab [or Jewish(sic)] custom. But that's a side-issue.

The key-phrase which I now see that your lack of knowledge of the history of the Zionist conquest of Palestine could have caused you to misinterpret, and hence, draw erroneous conclusions, is this:

"during the final months of fighting in 1948"

Because as far as the fighting in/for JAFFA is concerned, (which is where the mass-graves in question are located),

--> "the final months of fighting in 1948" were in fact the months of April, and the beginning of May, 1948! <--

(The Jewish attacks on Jaffa having begun already in January of 1948, or even earlier!) The fighting in Jaffa was all over, well before any of the combined Arab Nations entered into the ongoing war, which the Jewish forces had started half a year earlier, and were continuing to pursue against the native Palestinian Arab population.

"There you have it... WAR DEAD... Not Murder...Not War Crimes... Nobody was pushed into the sea.."

"War dead", if you call the very one-sided war of the Zionists against the civilian population of Jaffa a proper war; many call that sort of "warfare" murder and massacre. Certainly not casualties due to any "invasion" by neighboring Arab countries. These bones are apparently of those who failed to succeed in fleeing in time. (Even though a very small number of Arabs both managed to survive there, AND to avoid being expelled.)

But NO proof whatsoever that the Jews didn't in fact "push he Arabs of Jaffa (and Haifa and Acre) into the sea"! (As is documented elsewhere.)

[aboutime]

tell tale. Are you, by any chance....the ALTER-EGO of a member named
'jafar'?

[Marcus Aurelius]

...But NO proof whatsoever that the Jews didn't in fact "push he Arabs of Jaffa (and Haifa and Acre) into the sea"! (As is documented elsewhere.)


The burden of proof is on you to prove they DID 'push Arabs into the sea' in Jaffa. 1 picture of drowning Arabs with Israelis standing over them will suffice.

[tell-tale]

tell tale. Are you, by any chance....the ALTER-EGO of a member named
'jafar'?

Nope, never encountered the individual anywhere before I stumbled across this forum; and I probably don’t share his tastes in prophets… But I happen to have studied the history of Zionism, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And unfortunately, much of what is commonly believed on this subject by Americans, and Evangelical Christians, is outdated myths and outright propaganda lies.

But are you, Abouttime, perhaps the alter-ego of Golda Meir?</SPAN>

Statements such as:
</SPAN></SPAN>
“It is IMPOSSIBLE to have anything called a Mass Grave of Palestinians when....There is no such nation for anyone to call themselves Palestinians.”(sic)</SPAN></SPAN>

-- add absolutely nothing to any serious discussion!</SPAN></SPAN>

[tell-tale]

The burden of proof is on you to prove they DID 'push Arabs into the sea' in Jaffa. 1 picture of drowning Arabs with Israelis standing over them will suffice.

I stated that Voted4Reagan's specific argument / conclusion in the post cited in no way proved that the Zionists didn't drive the Arabs of Jaffa into the sea, as he triumphalistically claimed. ("There you have it - nobody was pushed into the sea.")

As previously noted, such a picture of "drowning Arabs with Israelis(sic) standing over them" as you would like probably doesn't exist.

But if that is the only sort of historic documentation which you will accept for the validity of any events actually and reliably having occurred, then - (despite my being an extremely junior member of this forum, and perhaps risking becoming banned for saying so?), you Marcus Aurelius, should henceforth simply keep your mouth shut on all and any matters of history! -- I already pointed out how specious and contrary to normal English usage the (re-)definitions of being "pushed" or driven into the sea" were, which some here were trying to impose.

Many events are adequately documented by the accounts of multiple eye-witnesses and/or participants, for which individual photos of every aspect of the event have never existed. By the same demand for proof which you are trying to impose, M.A., George Washigton could also never have existed, because there wasn't a single photograph of him ever made during his lifetime...

[red states rule]

http://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/funny-eagle-waterboarding-terrorists-baptize.jpg

[Marcus Aurelius]

But if that is the only sort of historic documentation which you will accept for the validity of any events actually and reliably having occurred, then - (despite my being an extremely junior member of this forum, and perhaps risking becoming banned for saying so?), you Marcus Aurelius, should henceforth simply keep your mouth shut on all and any matters of history! -- I already pointed out how specious and contrary to normal English usage the (re-)definitions of being "pushed" or driven into the sea" were, which some here were trying to impose.


Yeah, telling another member to shut up will really get you banned :rolleyes:

Good God.

Sorry for asking for actual proof. I'll just take your word that Jews are all evil and caused all the Middle East problems, shall I?

Dumb ass.

[aboutime]

Yeah, telling another member to shut up will really get you banned :rolleyes:

Good God.

Sorry for asking for actual proof. I'll just take your word that Jews are all evil and caused all the Middle East problems, shall I?

Dumb ass.


Marcus. Seems the tell all is a believer in the BillyBob theory as a junior member, pretending to be an adult. And failing at both.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Marcus. Seems the tell all is a believer in the BillyBob theory as a junior member, pretending to be an adult. And failing at both.

I'm perfectly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But when a claim is made, in the ham-fisted, post a few thousand words and expect people to bow before my brilliance manner Tell did, AND they whine when proof is called for, well, the benefit gets a little shorter and the doubt get a little longer.;)

[jafar00]

http://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/funny-eagle-waterboarding-terrorists-baptize.jpg

Pol Pot would be proud.

[Gaffer]

Thanks for posting all that arab propaganda telltail. I've read it before. The palestainian encyclopedia? Wiki? And the un is always a great source. Those folks who like to ignore genocide and send peace keepers to areas where they rape and exploit the local population and are always busy writing resolutions against Israel.

One thing you forgot to mention is those long articles was the confrontations between the Israelis and the British. You give the arabs to much credit. They had every intention of wiping out the Israelis as soon as they became a state. They were massed on the borders waiting. You don't just move an army overnight. And the un didn't lift a finger to help.

Are you aware that the Israelis only had one rifle per three soldiers at the start of that war?

[red states rule]

Pol Pot would be proud.

At least you bastards are still breathing afterwards - unlike your victims who usually end up with their head rolling around on the ground

[jimnyc]

Hates sites and propaganda.

[aboutime]

Pol Pot would be proud.


​of YOU jafar. Of YOU!