Even Muslim pop stars know there are honor killings in Islam

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/05/29/muslim-pop-singer-omnia-hegazy-tackles-religions-rules-nervous-about-her-safety/


Pop singer Omnia Hegazy (http://www.omniamusic.com/)http://global.fncstatic.com/static/v/all/img/external-link.png isn’t one to keep quiet about inequities she sees in her Muslim religion.


“There are a lot of issues, like honor killing, that go on,” she said. “For instance, we were at a beach, and it was extremely hot. All the women were covered up head-to-toe in black, and all the men were wearing Speedos, and that’s how I started writing my song ‘Grace.’ We are all covered up and you men are not, what’s going on here?”


“There are a lot of people, not just even traditional Muslims, these are everyday Muslims and friends I have had, who have said, ‘I disagree with what you said,’” she told us. “It’s the point that there isn’t a lot of debate in that community and we’re all supposed to think the same... I can’t really do that.”




Let me guess, Jahil... she's not 'really' Muslim, right?

[aboutime]

Marcus. Give him time. It takes awhile to come up with more excuses, or accusations about lying, before jafar comes back with more lies to defend the UN-Defendable.

[jafar00]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/05/29/muslim-pop-singer-omnia-hegazy-tackles-religions-rules-nervous-about-her-safety/










Let me guess, Jahil... she's not 'really' Muslim, right?



She is Egyptian and she rightly condemns honour killing which happens in the less developed areas of the country where tribal tradition rules over what is actually right. Note she didn't say "in Islam" like you tried to spin it.

She is also right about the men in "speedos" at the beach. Men's Awrah is from the navel to the knees. That part of the body is supposed to be covered at minimum for men. I feel the same when I see Saudi tourists when the husband walks next to his hijab or niqab clad wife wearing shorts and a tshirt exposing his knees.

I think she would have more impact in the Arab world if she wore hijab though. She loses a lot of credibility by wearing revealing clothes.

[Marcus Aurelius]

She is Egyptian and she rightly condemns honour killing which happens in the less developed areas of the country where tribal tradition rules over what is actually right. Note she didn't say "in Islam" like you tried to spin it.

She is also right about the men in "speedos" at the beach. Men's Awrah is from the navel to the knees. That part of the body is supposed to be covered at minimum for men. I feel the same when I see Saudi tourists when the husband walks next to his hijab or niqab clad wife wearing shorts and a tshirt exposing his knees.

I think she would have more impact in the Arab world if she wore hijab though. She loses a lot of credibility by wearing revealing clothes.

it must be sad to be a delusionally blind as you are.

[Noir]

She is Egyptian and she rightly condemns honour killing which happens in the less developed areas of the country where tribal tradition rules over what is actually right. Note she didn't say "in Islam" like you tried to spin it.


Honour killings are not bound by degrees of development, heck they happen in the UK, the only bind to honour killings is how serious someone takes their 'holy' texts.

[jimnyc]

The only reason I would say "in Islam" is that the overwhelming majority of honor killings are committed within the Muslim community. Nope, I can't point to specific verses, but there must be a reason it primarily happens in the Muslim community and Islamic ran nations.

Even if in tribal areas living 100 years in the past, they are still Islamic. That would be like Americans discounting crime from ghetto areas.

[jafar00]

The only reason I would say "in Islam" is that the overwhelming majority of honor killings are committed within the Muslim community. Nope, I can't point to specific verses, but there must be a reason it primarily happens in the Muslim community and Islamic ran nations.

Even if in tribal areas living 100 years in the past, they are still Islamic. That would be like Americans discounting crime from ghetto areas.

Why don't you call them Christian when they happen in Latin America? Or Hindu when they happen in India then?

There is nothing in Islam to support calling it an Islamic act. Call it what it is. Murder. Where it happens is irrelevant.

[jimnyc]

Why don't you call them Christian when they happen in Latin America? Or Hindu when they happen in India then?

There is nothing in Islam to support calling it an Islamic act. Call it what it is. Murder. Where it happens is irrelevant.

We've discussed this before. I have been told by every Muslim person I know, that Islam and the person and Sharia are one and the same and cannot be separated, that Islam is a way of life. All Muslims identify with Islam and live the life of Islam. This is perhaps the only religion that is so built into the person where the religion and the way of life are interconnected. Either that or friends from Algeria, Morocco, Jordan and Iran have all lied to me.

And some of it IS relevant. If the extreme overwhelming majority of the acts are committed by - people from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan - and a major common denominator of these people is that they lead the life if Islam, then I think it's fair to call them Muslims, or Islamic.

Christians and such aren't inseparable from their faith. Most Christians live normal lives and aren't one and the same with their religion and live a life of "laws" from their religion. Sure, there are some that go to that degree, but it's their choice, whereas in Islam it's who you are. A Muslim can't choose to no longer follow the faith and just live a regular life without Islam - or I guess they wouldn't really be a Muslim then, no? Catholics can live a separate life from their faith, and they won't be excommunicated for not following their faith properly.

And YES, I already stated that there is nothing in verses or books to support it being an Islamic act - but yet it mostly happens within Islamic countries by Muslim men. Whether being taught from verses, or from radical Imam's, one would think people would want to identify what causes it and how, and put an end to it - not concentrate on avoiding a label and then ignoring the underlying issue.

[gabosaurus]

Marcus. Give him time. It takes awhile to come up with more excuses, or accusations about lying, before jafar comes back with more lies to defend the UN-Defendable.

http://www.clevelanddotnet.info/images/TooStupid.gif

[jafar00]

We've discussed this before. I have been told by every Muslim person I know, that Islam and the person and Sharia are one and the same and cannot be separated, that Islam is a way of life. All Muslims identify with Islam and live the life of Islam. This is perhaps the only religion that is so built into the person where the religion and the way of life are interconnected. Either that or friends from Algeria, Morocco, Jordan and Iran have all lied to me.

And some of it IS relevant. If the extreme overwhelming majority of the acts are committed by - people from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan - and a major common denominator of these people is that they lead the life if Islam, then I think it's fair to call them Muslims, or Islamic.

Christians and such aren't inseparable from their faith. Most Christians live normal lives and aren't one and the same with their religion and live a life of "laws" from their religion. Sure, there are some that go to that degree, but it's their choice, whereas in Islam it's who you are. A Muslim can't choose to no longer follow the faith and just live a regular life without Islam - or I guess they wouldn't really be a Muslim then, no? Catholics can live a separate life from their faith, and they won't be excommunicated for not following their faith properly.

And YES, I already stated that there is nothing in verses or books to support it being an Islamic act - but yet it mostly happens within Islamic countries by Muslim men. Whether being taught from verses, or from radical Imam's, one would think people would want to identify what causes it and how, and put an end to it - not concentrate on avoiding a label and then ignoring the underlying issue.

What are we debating? If I am a Muslim, but go around robbing banks in an Islamic country, it doesn't make it an Islamic act. If I am a Christian and I go around robbing banks in a Christian country, it doesn't make it a Christian act. You agree that it isn't in the scripture, so why do you keep calling it Islamic?

I had similar arguments with the relatives of my wife when I was trying to marry her. They said it was forbidden for me to marry because of their tradition to only marry in those with a direct bloodline to the Prophet Mohamed (saw). I asked them to show me where in the Qur'aan it says that I couldn't marry her and they admitted there is nothing in Islam that could prevent our marriage. Only tribal tradition. I won that debate :)

Islam, and traditions or customs are two separate things.

[jimnyc]

What are we debating? If I am a Muslim, but go around robbing banks in an Islamic country, it doesn't make it an Islamic act. If I am a Christian and I go around robbing banks in a Christian country, it doesn't make it a Christian act. You agree that it isn't in the scripture, so why do you keep calling it Islamic?

I had similar arguments with the relatives of my wife when I was trying to marry her. They said it was forbidden for me to marry because of their tradition to only marry in those with a direct bloodline to the Prophet Mohamed (saw). I asked them to show me where in the Qur'aan it says that I couldn't marry her and they admitted there is nothing in Islam that could prevent our marriage. Only tribal tradition. I won that debate :)

Islam, and traditions or customs are two separate things.

Can't speak for others, but I never said it was an Islamic act. In fact, I even stated it wasn't supported by scripture/verses at all that I knew of. My stance was that those committing the honor killings were mostly Muslims. I referred to the PEOPLE committing the acts as Muslims or within Islamic nations. And yes, there's a difference. I'm not saying it's in the Quran or elsewhere - just that the actual crimes are mostly committed by Muslim men and in Islamic countries.

Are there any countries that are "christian"? I don't know of any ran completely under Christian rule and law. If there is a place, then yes to your question. Since it doesn't exist, no.

I can call those who do the honor killings Egyptian men, Pakastani, Saudi Arabian & Afghani men. But even if we do that, it still won't change the fact that the majority of these men from various countries committing honor killings - just happen to be Muslim as well.

My point is that regardless, it's VERY outdated and should be completely banished. Way too many older tribal areas and such still do this. Hell, it happens in America amongst Muslims. Similar to other extremely harsh punishments, I simply think they should not be used anymore. Stoning, public hangings and all that. Some places are still 100 years or more behind the rest of the world. Understood that they aren't quite as advanced as other countries, but that shouldn't mean we ignore things like honor killings. Some places it's rarely prosecuted, some it's only looked at if it happens. I just wish it were something that we didn't see happening at all.

[jafar00]

Can't speak for others, but I never said it was an Islamic act. In fact, I even stated it wasn't supported by scripture/verses at all that I knew of. My stance was that those committing the honor killings were mostly Muslims. I referred to the PEOPLE committing the acts as Muslims or within Islamic nations. And yes, there's a difference. I'm not saying it's in the Quran or elsewhere - just that the actual crimes are mostly committed by Muslim men and in Islamic countries.

You cannot say most of the crimes are committed by Muslim men in Muslim countries. You are missing the South Americans and a hell of a lot killed in Northern India.


Honor killings have been reported in northern regions of India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India), mainly in the Indian states of Punjab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_(Indian_state)), Rajasthan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajasthan), Haryana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haryana), Uttar Pradesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttar_Pradesh), as a result of people marrying without their family's acceptance, and sometimes for marrying outside their caste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India) or religion. In contrast, honor killings are rare to non-existent in South India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_India) and the western Indian states of Maharashtra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharashtra) and Gujarat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujarat).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#India

What are the most prevelant religions in these problem states?

Punjab - Sikhs 60% Hindus 37%
Rajasthan - Hindus 88%
Haryana - Hindus 87.55%
Utter Pradesh - Hindus 82%

Also from the wiki


Haryana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haryana) is also notorious for incidents of honor killing, mainly in the upper caste of society, among rajputs and jaats.[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#cite_note-NatGeo-32)[88] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#cite_note-88)Bhagalpur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagalpur) in the eastern Indian state of Bihar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bihar) has also been notorious for honor killings.[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#cite_note-89)

Bihar - Hindus 83.2%

See a pattern?

Not counting the thousands of "crimes of passion" (honour killings) in South America, the problem is not confined to countries where Islam is a majority.

You cannot say it is just an Islamic problem, and you cannot describe the act as Islamic especially since killing unjustly is a big sin in Islam.


Are there any countries that are "christian"? I don't know of any ran completely under Christian rule and law. If there is a place, then yes to your question. Since it doesn't exist, no.

Since most Americans say they are Christian (they do Christmas and Easter) you can say it is a Christian country by the same logic that a country with a majority of Muslims is an Islamic country. That is my point.


I can call those who do the honor killings Egyptian men, Pakastani, Saudi Arabian & Afghani men. But even if we do that, it still won't change the fact that the majority of these men from various countries committing honor killings - just happen to be Muslim as well.

Why not just call them murderers? That's what they are.

Do you call Catholic Priests who have sex with children, paedophiles, or do you refer to them as "Catholic" paedophiles?


My point is that regardless, it's VERY outdated and should be completely banished. Way too many older tribal areas and such still do this. Hell, it happens in America amongst Muslims. Similar to other extremely harsh punishments, I simply think they should not be used anymore. Stoning, public hangings and all that. Some places are still 100 years or more behind the rest of the world. Understood that they aren't quite as advanced as other countries, but that shouldn't mean we ignore things like honor killings. Some places it's rarely prosecuted, some it's only looked at if it happens. I just wish it were something that we didn't see happening at all.

I agree 100% But the human race is just not evolved enough to stamp out stupid traditions ingrained into cultures, racism, caste discrimination etc... We should be more civilised damn it :(

[red states rule]

http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/small/0905/comic-life-time-family-value-true-terrorist-hamas-religion-i-demotivational-poster-1241887390.jpg

[jimnyc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#India

What are the most prevelant religions in these problem states?

Punjab - Sikhs 60% Hindus 37%
Rajasthan - Hindus 88%
Haryana - Hindus 87.55%
Utter Pradesh - Hindus 82%

Also from the wiki

Also from the same page:


Honor killing by region
According to the UN in 2002:

The report of the Special Rapporteur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Rapporteur)... concerning cultural practices in the family that are violent towards women (E/CN.4/2002/83), indicated that honour killings had been reported in Egypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt), Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan), Lebanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon), Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco), Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan), the Syrian Arab Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria), Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey), Yemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen), and other Mediterranean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean) and Persian Gulf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf) countries, and that they had also taken place in western countries such as France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France), Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) and the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom), within migrant communities.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#cite_note-unhchr-30)[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#cite_note-31)
In addition, the UN Commission on Human Rights report honor killings in the nations of Bangladesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh), Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil), Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador), India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India), Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco), Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden), Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey), and Uganda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda).[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#cite_note-Sanctuary_For_Families-23)
According to Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch), the practice of honor killing "goes across cultures and across religions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Honor_killing_by_region

Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan, Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey, Persian Gulf... Hell, they didn't even bother with Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, where it is probably VERY high in the tribal areas. Even read the reast of the page from where I just quoted down, even many of the examples in other countries - are from people who immigrated from elsewhere, mostly Islamic countries. You're trying hard to show me that it happens elsewhere and with other religions - save your breath, I already admit that! I said from the get go that it's a MAJORITY towards Muslim men.

Or how about this:


Yes, it’s a cultural rather than a religious thing, stemming from some nasty tribal customs of South Asia and the Middle East, but though Hindus, Sikhs and the odd Christian might be perpetrators, the blunt truth is that honour killings are mainly Muslim-on-Muslim (91 per cent worldwide, 84 per cent North America, 96 per cent Europe).

http://bulletinoftheoppressionofwomen.com/2012/02/08/stats-on-honor-killings/

And this:


Many women's groups in the Middle East and South-west Asia suspect the victims are at least four times the United Nations' latest world figure of around 5,000 deaths a year

Although Sikhs and Hindus do sometimes commit such murders, honor killings, both worldwide and in the West, are mainly Muslim-on-Muslim crimes. In this [2010] study, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims. In North America, most killers (84 percent) were Muslims, with only a few Sikhs and even fewer Hindus perpetrating honor killings; in Europe, Muslims comprised an even larger majority at 96 percent while Sikhs were a tiny percentage. In Muslim countries, obviously almost all the perpetrators were Muslims. With only two exceptions, the victims were all members of the same religious group as their murderers

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Honor_Related_Violence

Hell, there are about 5,000 per year, and 1,000 of them are in Pakistan alone!


Nearly 1,000 Pakistani women ‘killed for honor’
At least 943 Pakistani women and girls were murdered last year for allegedly defaming their family’s honor, the country’s leading human rights group said Thursday.

The statistics highlight the growing scale of violence suffered by many women in conservative Muslim Pakistan, where they are frequently treated as second-class citizens and there is no law against domestic violence.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/22/202385.html

Even what few honor killings take place in the USA:


In 1989 in St. Louis, Missouri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis,_Missouri), sixteen-year-old Palestina (Tina) Isa was murdered by her Palestinian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people) father, Zein Isa, with the aid of her Brazilian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_people) mother, Maria Isa.
the murder of 25-year-old Sandeela Kanwal—allegedly by her father, Chaudhry Rashid

In February 2009, Muzzammil Hassan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzammil_Hassan) was arrested and charged with murdering his estranged wife Aasiya Zubair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aasiya_Zubair) with a knife and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American-Islamic_Relations) and the Islamic Society of North America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Society_of_North_America) responded with an "Open Letter to Muslim Leaders", expressing shock and sadness at the murder, condemning domestic violence, and calling on imams and Muslim leaders to "provide support and help to protect the victims of domestic violence" and "to never second-guess a woman who comes to us indicating that she feels her life to be in danger."[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States#cite_note-10) Imam Mohamed Hagmagid Ali, vice-president of ISNA, stated: "This is a wake up call to all of us, that violence against women is real and can not be ignored. It must be addressed collectively by every member of our community."

Faleh Hassan Almaleki, an Iraqi immigrant, struck and killed his daughter Noor Almaleki, 20, in a Phoenix valley parking lot in October 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States#cite_note-11)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States

So Yes, I fully admit it happens in places like India that you pointed out, and many other countries. And yep, not 100% of them are Muslim, and MAYBE the stats are off a tad, but 91% IS the "overwhelming majority" as I originally stated.

[jimnyc]

Since most Americans say they are Christian (they do Christmas and Easter) you can say it is a Christian country by the same logic that a country with a majority of Muslims is an Islamic country. That is my point.

BIG difference. Is America run as a Christian nation? Does religion have anything to do with how the country is ran? Now, look at the nations that are Islamic. Does religion have anything to do with how the countries are ran? Do punishments have anything rooted in religion? Do religious folk have a say in how the country is ran?

We have a separation, and in no way does religion affect the way this country is ran. But Islamic countries, YES, it's almost ALL about Islam.

It IS fair to call countries "Islamic Countries" - and NOT call countries Christian countries. 100% polar opposites of one another.

[red states rule]

and it is getting worse in the US





In recent years, honor killings have been gaining increasing attention in media. One women’s rights group reports (http://ikwro.org.uk/2011/12/03/nearly-3000-cases-of-honour-violence-every-year-in-the-uk/) that more than 2,800 deaths were reported across the United Kingdom last year, alone. Unfortunately, the official numbers are tough to nail down, considering that many of these crimes go unreported.


According to a new report from CBN (http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/January/Islamic-Honor-Violence-Rising-in-the-West/), Islamic honor killings are on the rise in the West. This trend, which is illustrated in the report through some disturbing anecdotal examples, is apparently developing as more Muslims migrate to Western countries. CBN has more:

Although honor violence is sometimes committed by Hindus and Sikhs, it is usually a Muslim on Muslim crime (http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings). One study found that 91 percent of honor killings were committed by Muslims.
Among the examples given in a disturbing video report, a Canadian woman was strangled by her father after refusing to wear a headscarf and an Italian woman’s throat was slit by her father. Additionally, in another example, two sisters were shot by their father in a New York taxi.


These crimes, which are dubbed instances of “honor violence,” were motivated by victims going against their parents’ wishes, becoming to Westernized or trying to leave Islam, among other reasons. Shame and dishonor, thus, led the women’s families to take horrific action.
IKWRO writes (http://ikwro.org.uk/2011/12/03/nearly-3000-cases-of-honour-violence-every-year-in-the-uk/):

The perpetrators of ‘honour’ crimes tend to be close family members of their victims, who are, more often than not, female. What they have in common is that the victim’s personal conduct is thought to have brought shame on her family. Reasons for this perceived dishonour have been known to be anything from refusing an arranged marriage, seeking a divorce, beginning a relationship that the family does not approve of or even being the victim of a sexual assault

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/01/05/report-islamic-honor-killings-on-the-rise-in-the-west/

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

[QUOTE=jimnyc;642841]We've discussed this before. I have been told by every Muslim person I know, that Islam and the person and Sharia are one and the same and cannot be separated, that Islam is a way of life. All Muslims identify with Islam and live the life of Islam. This is perhaps the only religion that is so built into the person where the religion and the way of life are interconnected.

And some of it IS relevant. If the extreme overwhelming majority of the acts are committed by - people from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan - and a major common denominator of these people is that they lead the life if Islam, then I think it's fair to call them Muslims, or Islamic.

QUOTE]

The fact that muslim defenders try to deny that "total submission to the religion" that no other religion forces like Islam does is easy to refute. Any even casual study of Islam makes the total submission to Allah abundantly clear.
As it is the very core of the religion!!!
Jafar trying to deny that is him clearly lying like a damn rug. -Tyr

[aboutime]

Has anyone heard about those Lawyers in Tennessee who are attempting to make it ILLEGAL for anyone to post negative remarks, or comments online about Muslim's?

Of course. The lawyers are actually attempting to overrule, and Ignore the 1st amendment in doing so.

In short. They are trying to make speaking about Muslims Illegal, yet. They say nothing about the same kind of negativity when it comes to Christians, Jews, Mormons, or Agnostics.

I am looking for the link:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2013/05/feds-suggest-antimuslim-speech-can-be-punished-165163.html