Worker suspended for wearing poppy to honor soldier

[jimnyc]

I know about dress policies and such, and legally speaking, this company was within it's rights. That's ALL I will say in their defense. I read about this on FB, where they are also sharing pictures of 'Abu Qatada" shopping there. Someone affiliated with Al Qaeda is welcome to come inside, but an employee wearing a tiny rubber bracelet and a poppy - can't have that!

Morrisons worker suspended from work after refusing to take off poppy pin badge in memory of murdered soldier Lee RigbyA supermarket worker has been suspended after refusing to take off a Help for Heroes bracelet and a poppy he was wearing in tribute to Drummer Lee Rigby.

Adam Austin has spoken of his shock after bosses at the Morrisons store in Portsmouth, Hampshire, told him he faced disciplinary action when he refused to remove the items.

The 28-year-old has now been suspended until he attends a meeting with management on Friday.

Mr Austin told the Portsmouth News: 'I was disappointed and partly furious.

'I have got friends in the army and friends who have been in the army. What with the issue with Lee Rigby, I wore them out of respect.'

A Morrisons spokesman explained that staff were generally prohibited from wearing extra items to prevent objects falling into food products

He said: 'It's all about food hygiene. The rules are the same in a restaurant kitchen as they are in a supermarket food preparation area.

'We have a dress code and the dress code is primarily around the health and safety of the staff member and the members of the public.'

But he added the company had reviewed its guidelines to allow staff in non-food preparation areas to wear a registered charity wristband.

How this applies to Mr Austin is unclear at present, as he is employed in a fresh food preparation area as well as at the checkouts.

The spokesman added: 'We understand that it's important to many people to show support for our armed forces.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2332170/Adam-Austin-Morrisons-worker-suspended-work-refusing-poppy-pin-badge-memory-murdered-soldier-Lee-Rigby.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

http://imageshack.us/a/img541/1036/article23321701a09beb60.jpg

[Marcus Aurelius]

As much as I sympathize with the person, if they work in food preparation areas as the story indicated, then the store did the right thing.

Regardless of how much we want to honor fallen heroes and friends, we should not do so in a manner that might compromise someone elses safety. Food safety policies are there for a reason.

Now, if there was no food preparation work involved at all, just the checkouts, stocking shelves, etc., their own policy would have allowed it.

[jimnyc]

As much as I sympathize with the person, if they work in food preparation areas as the story indicated, then the store did the right thing.

Regardless of how much we want to honor fallen heroes and friends, we should not do so in a manner that might compromise someone elses safety. Food safety policies are there for a reason.

Now, if there was no food preparation work involved at all, just the checkouts, stocking shelves, etc., their own policy would have allowed it.

I think it should be reserved for items that would reasonably be expected to fall off and into the food. A rubber bracelet, in which most of these generally need to be stretched to be put on, likely won't fall off. Nor would a pin that is secured from the other side as well, like an earring. I've worked in quite a few food establishments, from rolling bagels to using a slicer, and have never heard of or had to remove a lapel styled pin. 'Maybe' the bracelet, depending on what type of food, as it may touch, but I can't see one ever just falling off. But the poppy? Might as well have him remove a necklace if he has one under his shirt as well, as that just as easily can end up in the food. Or any earrings him, or any of the ladies might be wearing.

Oddly enough, he was allowed to wear a company name badge though. These also apply with a pin.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=641915#post641915)
As much as I sympathize with the person, if they work in food preparation areas as the story indicated, then the store did the right thing.

Regardless of how much we want to honor fallen heroes and friends, we should not do so in a manner that might compromise someone elses safety. Food safety policies are there for a reason.

Now, if there was no food preparation work involved at all, just the checkouts, stocking shelves, etc., their own policy would have allowed it.




I think it should be reserved for items that would reasonably be expected to fall off and into the food. A rubber bracelet, in which most of these generally need to be stretched to be put on, likely won't fall off. Nor would a pin that is secured from the other side as well, like an earring. I've worked in quite a few food establishments, from rolling bagels to using a slicer, and have never heard of or had to remove a lapel styled pin. 'Maybe' the bracelet, depending on what type of food, as it may touch, but I can't see one ever just falling off. But the poppy? Might as well have him remove a necklace if he has one under his shirt as well, as that just as easily can end up in the food. Or any earrings him, or any of the ladies might be wearing.

Oddly enough, he was allowed to wear a company name badge though. These also apply with a pin.

Bracelets can slip off, easily if they are ill fitting. The 'live strong' type are all one size, aren't they? As for pins/earrings... ask the ladies on the board if they've ever lost an earring. I would imagine more of them have, than have not.

[jimnyc]

Bracelets can slip off, easily if they are ill fitting. The 'live strong' type are all one size, aren't they? As for pins/earrings... ask the ladies on the board if they've ever lost an earring. I would imagine more of them have, than have not.

But then why allow something that is affixed to the shirt in the exact same fashion as the poppy? If it were truly all about safety, neither would be allowed. A pin falling into food from a badge can be just as harmful as the pin from a poppy as this gent had.

And sure, of course earrings can fall off. Are they banned as well from being worn? I wonder if regular gold/silver bracelets are banned as well. I can't speak definitively for the rubber style bracelets. I have a few, but not livestrong, which I don't think his was either. One of those I have, had to be ordered in one of 2 sizes, small or large. That doesn't mean that others are the same though.

I've worked at places where jewelry and things like this were banned for safety reasons, but never heard of it for food areas. I was forced to wear gloves, and even a cap that covered my hair at one place. Sleeves had to be tight to ensure they didn't dangle in the food and such. All the gals would have went nuts at the places I worked if they were forced to remove all of these items before every shift!

[KitchenKitten99]

I'll chime in...

Allowing employees to wear the rubber charity bracelets is something that is at the discretion of the management depending on their area's health codes. Health codes regarding this kind of thing vary from county to county (and some cases city to city) in my state, and since this is the UK, their health codes are a bit different. I would have to read up on them to know details.

For instance, if you have a restaurant or food service operation in Hennepin County, they are the most strict, with the city of Bloomington being NOTORIOUS for their strict standards, you cannot wear watches or any kind of wristband at all, and even most jewelry is prohibited. There are several reasons for this: They are bacteria breeding grounds and they have the ability to get caught on objects while walking by or reaching for things, creating risk for injury. Getting them caught on things can tear chunks out of them and get into the food. Also, they can melt in high temps which creates another situation for injury.

Anoka County (my home area) is not as strict but there are exceptions for things. Such as not requiring food-service gloves such as Bloomington does.

As far as wearing the poppy button... I agree with management. There is no need for that to be worn IF he is in a food-prep/service area. It is not part of the uniform and has no guarantee of not falling off our something coming undone.

While it is nice of him to honor Lee Rigby, wearing those items outside of work (given his kind of job) would be better suited. In the mean time, put the items in his pockets. Had he been in an office or non-food prep area job at all times, then I could see an issue.

As a future restaurant owner, I side with management on this.

[aboutime]

We all know. This is literally STRETCHING Political Correctness to new boundaries. Someone was offended. Probably someone who cheered the murder of that British Soldier. And, anyone who mourns for such a person...should be silenced, or fired.

The whole world is becoming nothing but a place where WHINING, BEING INSULTED, BEING OFFENDED becomes more important for the FEW, than all of the other natural, human experiences of the Many.

[jimnyc]

I'll chime in...

Allowing employees to wear the rubber charity bracelets is something that is at the discretion of the management depending on their area's health codes. Health codes regarding this kind of thing vary from county to county (and some cases city to city) in my state, and since this is the UK, their health codes are a bit different. I would have to read up on them to know details.

For instance, if you have a restaurant or food service operation in Hennepin County, they are the most strict, with the city of Bloomington being NOTORIOUS for their strict standards, you cannot wear watches or any kind of wristband at all, and even most jewelry is prohibited. There are several reasons for this: They are bacteria breeding grounds and they have the ability to get caught on objects while walking by or reaching for things, creating risk for injury. Getting them caught on things can tear chunks out of them and get into the food. Also, they can melt in high temps which creates another situation for injury.

Anoka County (my home area) is not as strict but there are exceptions for things. Such as not requiring food-service gloves such as Bloomington does.

As far as wearing the poppy button... I agree with management. There is no need for that to be worn IF he is in a food-prep/service area. It is not part of the uniform and has no guarantee of not falling off our something coming undone.

While it is nice of him to honor Lee Rigby, wearing those items outside of work (given his kind of job) would be better suited. In the mean time, put the items in his pockets. Had he been in an office or non-food prep area job at all times, then I could see an issue.

As a future restaurant owner, I side with management on this.

All reasonably well stated! But I'll ask of you too - what is the major difference between a badge pinned on a shirt, and the poppy? If talking about health issues, I'm finding it hard to see the difference.

[aboutime]

All reasonably well stated! But I'll ask of you too - what is the major difference between a badge pinned on a shirt, and the poppy? If talking about health issues, I'm finding it hard to see the difference.


We also...ALL KNOW. There is NO DIFFERENCE. Everything depends on who is saying it, and to whom they are saying it to.

That's part of the problem. Some just aren't smart enough to understand the obvious because it makes them look more foolish.

[KitchenKitten99]

All reasonably well stated! But I'll ask of you too - what is the major difference between a badge pinned on a shirt, and the poppy? If talking about health issues, I'm finding it hard to see the difference.


The difference is that the badge is part of the uniform. Also, because it is attached some way to his work badge, there is still a possibility of it becoming detached. The uniform is there for just that: uniformity. Also to ensure minimal risk of any kind of contamination.

Honestly, it really isn't part of his uniform and unless he can prove they have let others do the same thing for other causes than this, he really doesn't have a leg to stand on with this.

Besides, in a foodservice area of any kind, unless you are a server or management, who do you need to impress or show off to? Get back to your station and do your job. I still don't know why some women bother putting eye make-up on when working a Friday or Saturday night rush...

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=641921#post641921)
Bracelets can slip off, easily if they are ill fitting. The 'live strong' type are all one size, aren't they? As for pins/earrings... ask the ladies on the board if they've ever lost an earring. I would imagine more of them have, than have not.



But then why allow something that is affixed to the shirt in the exact same fashion as the poppy? If it were truly all about safety, neither would be allowed. A pin falling into food from a badge can be just as harmful as the pin from a poppy as this gent had.

And sure, of course earrings can fall off. Are they banned as well from being worn? I wonder if regular gold/silver bracelets are banned as well. I can't speak definitively for the rubber style bracelets. I have a few, but not livestrong, which I don't think his was either. One of those I have, had to be ordered in one of 2 sizes, small or large. That doesn't mean that others are the same though.

I've worked at places where jewelry and things like this were banned for safety reasons, but never heard of it for food areas. I was forced to wear gloves, and even a cap that covered my hair at one place. Sleeves had to be tight to ensure they didn't dangle in the food and such. All the gals would have went nuts at the places I worked if they were forced to remove all of these items before every shift!

I don't see anything in the article that states they allowed something like that. Not sure what you're referring to here.

I'd have to see their written policy on all the items you mention. Having worked in the food service industry in the past, I know we were prohibited from wearing any of them if we were in food prep or food service. Every company is different I suppose.

[jimnyc]

The difference is that the badge is part of the uniform. Also, because it is attached some way to his work badge, there is still a possibility of it becoming detached. The uniform is there for just that: uniformity. Also to ensure minimal risk of any kind of contamination.

Honestly, it really isn't part of his uniform and unless he can prove they have let others do the same thing for other causes than this, he really doesn't have a leg to stand on with this.

Besides, in a foodservice area of any kind, unless you are a server or management, who do you need to impress or show off to? Get back to your station and do your job. I still don't know why some women bother putting eye make-up on when working a Friday or Saturday night rush...

So if it's possibly a health issue, it's ok so long as it's part of the uniform?

I'm not saying that the poppy was part of his uniform, but rather that they both are affixed in the same manner on the shirt. If one is a health issue, then both are, or the other way around. Either that, or simply state that they had him remove the poppy as a part of that uniformity. I agree and think that's exactly why they had it removed. And now it's backfiring on them. It's a trip reading their FB page as most of their customer base is pissed off about this. The murder over there and the remembrance of Lee Rigby is HUGE, and still very raw to the people. To dismiss someone because they were remembering in their own little way, not much different than placing their work badge on, wasn't great for public perception.

[jimnyc]

I don't see anything in the article that states they allowed something like that. Not sure what you're referring to here.

I'd have to see their written policy on all the items you mention. Having worked in the food service industry in the past, I know we were prohibited from wearing any of them if we were in food prep or food service. Every company is different I suppose.


The letter said he was asked by the store personnel manager to remove the poppy badge that was on his company name badge.

I've worked in the food industry for a long time. Removing rings or anything that may come into contact with the food, of course. Even protecting the hair. Oh, that's right, the majority of their food workers don't wear hair coverings either. I think the single most thing in danger of falling into or onto food is hair.

[KitchenKitten99]

We also...ALL KNOW. There is NO DIFFERENCE. Everything depends on who is saying it, and to whom they are saying it to.

That's part of the problem. Some just aren't smart enough to understand the obvious because it makes them look more foolish.

Could it be the employer wants to keep things neutral so as to not alienate customers?

Unless the other employees have been allowed to do what this guy did, and he was the only one called out, there is no proof it has anything to do with what you're stating.

Many companies do this. They say no to ANY items that may be controversial or show support of a cause that is a social issue hot-topic. I worked in a restaurant that was like this with servers. Nothing could be shown or used (down to the pens they used to write with) that could be construed in any way to have anything to do with anything outside the restaurant. No ties or pins, or anything that had any themes of any kind outside of food. The owners of the restaurant (a very successful chain locally) want all guests of all opinions to feel welcome and know that the server's only concerns are with the needs of the customers. Small talk and what not to generate a warm feeling and atmosphere is fine, but no social issues, no politics. Even if the customer brings it up, stay neutral and 'bean dip' (as many in the industry say).

In his particular job, if he's working in a food-prep area, I don't see why this is even an argument. Who would see it other than co-workers? Was his intention to use it as a conversation starter with them? What purpose did it really serve if no one else saw it but him or management?

There are other ways to honor someone other than violating (potentially) dress codes or wearing pins. I probably would have just sent him home for the day rather than suspend him.

[jimnyc]

Could it be the employer wants to keep things neutral so as to not alienate customers?

That's what I'm thinking - but IMO, they should have just stated that outright instead of 'lying', if that's what they did. As if not allowing the remembrance was enough, customers feeling lied to have a high percentage of not returning, or at the very least, having a sour taste in their mouth if they feel lied to.

[KitchenKitten99]

So if it's possibly a health issue, it's ok so long as it's part of the uniform?

I'm not saying that the poppy was part of his uniform, but rather that they both are affixed in the same manner on the shirt. If one is a health issue, then both are, or the other way around. Either that, or simply state that they had him remove the poppy as a part of that uniformity. I agree and think that's exactly why they had it removed. And now it's backfiring on them. It's a trip reading their FB page as most of their customer base is pissed off about this. The murder over there and the remembrance of Lee Rigby is HUGE, and still very raw to the people. To dismiss someone because they were remembering in their own little way, not much different than placing their work badge on, wasn't great for public perception.

The badge was an approved part of the uniform. The pin was not.

Maybe if he had asked if it was ok in the first place, then this might have been avoided altogether.

Is there precedence with other employees being allowed to do this but he was picked on? Ask that first before jumping the shark on social issue drama.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=641939#post641939) I don't see anything in the article that states they allowed something like that. Not sure what you're referring to here.

I'd have to see their written policy on all the items you mention. Having worked in the food service industry in the past, I know we were prohibited from wearing any of them if we were in food prep or food service. Every company is different I suppose.


The letter said he was asked by the store personnel manager to remove the poppy badge that was on his company name badge.





I've worked in the food industry for a long time. Removing rings or anything that may come into contact with the food, of course. Even protecting the hair. Oh, that's right, the majority of their food workers don't wear hair coverings either. I think the single most thing in danger of falling into or onto food is hair.

Sorry, guess I missed that part. However, keep in mind there are two issues here. 1... food safety 2...written policy.

It sounds like he was violating both of those. Additionally, the story did mention he put the braclet back on, after having been told earlier in the day to remove it. That he did out of spite, it seems to me, because he was pissed about not being able to wear the poppy either.

The end result is that there was a policy... he was told about the policy... he ignored the policy... he was reprimanded for ignoring the policy.

It's no different than if there is what someone considers a stupid law. You don't just ignore the law, or violate the law. You work to change the law.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The badge was an approved part of the uniform. The pin was not.

Maybe if he had asked if it was ok in the first place, then this might have been avoided altogether.

Is there precedence with other employees being allowed to do this but he was picked on? Ask that first before jumping the shark on social issue drama.

That would change my opinion on the matter. If he was singled out for this, when other employees were allowed similar breaches of policy, then I'd be somewhat more inclined to support him.

[KitchenKitten99]

That's what I'm thinking - but IMO, they should have just stated that outright instead of 'lying', if that's what they did. As if not allowing the remembrance was enough, customers feeling lied to have a high percentage of not returning, or at the very least, having a sour taste in their mouth if they feel lied to.

Again, regardless of their reasons, it does boil down to not being a part of the uniform. He was asked to remove it. He refused. He was disciplined. Even if the management's reasons weren't 100% disclosed, there is no way to really prove it unless there was a direct comment stating such.

So now that he can't wear his pin he cannot properly remember the man who was killed while at work?

The article states that it was attached to his badge. It doesn't say how it was attached. As far as management goes, they have a legitimate concern all the way around. Food contamination potential and disregard for the rules set for employment.

If he is allowed to stray from the rules, then others will follow. Then what? Now management has to police everything and make judgement calls in every case. How about just not allowing anything outside the uniform with the reasons being what they are and leave it at that? Don't like it, don't work there.

[KitchenKitten99]

That would change my opinion on the matter. If he was singled out for this, when other employees were allowed similar breaches of policy, then I'd be somewhat more inclined to support him.

As would I, but I don't see that being mentioned at all in the article or any of the updates.

[jimnyc]

Imagine here in the States, someone having been dismissed for wearing a pin or bracelet, honoring their loved one lost on 9/11. I believe the uproar would be similar, even if the company in question was working within their policy.

[KitchenKitten99]

Imagine here in the States, someone having been dismissed for wearing a pin or bracelet, honoring their loved one lost on 9/11. I believe the uproar would be similar, even if the company in question was working within their policy.

Just because someone lost a loved one in a tragic event, why should they be exempt from written policy?

I lost my grandmother after her 2.5 year battle with leukemia. I don't need to wear a piece of jewelry in a commercial kitchen to remember her. I am sure she would understand.

[Drummond]

As much as I sympathize with the person, if they work in food preparation areas as the story indicated, then the store did the right thing.

Regardless of how much we want to honor fallen heroes and friends, we should not do so in a manner that might compromise someone elses safety. Food safety policies are there for a reason.

Now, if there was no food preparation work involved at all, just the checkouts, stocking shelves, etc., their own policy would have allowed it.

The bracelet .. PERHAPS I can understand, because of the food hygiene issue. The poppy .. not at all.

British police are allowed to wear poppies. But not Morrison staff, evidently.

I, too, will be boycotting Morrisons stores after this.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Imagine here in the States, someone having been dismissed for wearing a pin or bracelet, honoring their loved one lost on 9/11. I believe the uproar would be similar, even if the company in question was working within their policy.

I do not disagree.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The bracelet .. PERHAPS I can understand, because of the food hygiene issue. The poppy .. not at all.

British police are allowed to wear poppies. But not Morrison staff, evidently.

I, too, will be boycotting Morrisons stores after this.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here... if you found a poppy pin in your food from Morrison's and say, damaged a tooth because of it, would you...

A... realize accidents happen, someone was honoring a fallen friend, ignore it and deal with any negative effects from biting the pin on your own.

or

B... sue the crap out of the store for not taking better precautions against things falling into your food.

[Noir]

This happens every year in Northern Ireland, though I guess it doesn't pick up much press outside of our wee country because here the Poppys are banned so as not to offend nationalist Catholics, lul.

As for the actual story, rules is rules, he may of wore it with the best of intentions but when asked to remove it he should of done so. Else-wise whats to stop anyone from wearing pins for awareness of anything they want?

[KitchenKitten99]

The bracelet .. PERHAPS I can understand, because of the food hygiene issue. The poppy .. not at all.

British police are allowed to wear poppies. But not Morrison staff, evidently.

I, too, will be boycotting Morrisons stores after this.

Last I checked, the British police are not in commercial kitchen and food prep areas either. The police are bound by different rules and guidelines than independent companies that have nothing to do with law enforcement and write their own policies. HUGE difference.

Are other employees at this company allowed to wear items outside their uniform that are 'remembrance' tokens for other things such as this? If so, then you could make an argument for him being allowed to wear it. No other examples means likely this has little to do with the issue the little pin is linked to

I see way too many people getting up in a huff about the not being able to wear a stupid pin as a political/social issue opinion thing rather than maybe the employer was ENFORCING WRITTEN POLICY. No exceptions!

It makes me wonder about the level of respect that people have anymore for those that sign their paychecks...?

[jimnyc]

It makes me wonder about the level of respect that people have anymore for those that sign their paychecks...?

Some have more respect for country, or fallen soldiers and family, even if against policy or costs them a job.

[KitchenKitten99]

Some have more respect for country, or fallen soldiers and family, even if against policy or costs them a job.

So wearing a piece of jewelry at all times is the only way to show respect and honor the fallen? And not wearing anything because it is against written policy for your job is a sign of disrespect? Even if it means endangering the safety of those you're serving food to or even yourself?

Seriously?

[jimnyc]

So wearing a piece of jewelry at all times is the only way to show respect and honor the fallen? And not wearing anything because it is against written policy for your job is a sign of disrespect? Even if it means endangering the safety of those you're serving food to or even yourself?

Seriously?

I never said it was the only way. I just place himself in my shoes. Had it been a week after 9/11, and I was working with a US flag lapel, or something remembering a lost one, while it's all still so raw, no way in hell I remove it. Go ahead and fire me, and I wouldn't sue as I know that there are codes and such and they are within their rights. No argument from me there. I would place the principle of honoring the fallen above the job and the rest, yes, and I'm serious.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I never said it was the only way. I just place himself in my shoes. Had it been a week after 9/11, and I was working with a US flag lapel, or something remembering a lost one, while it's all still so raw, no way in hell I remove it. Go ahead and fire me, and I wouldn't sue as I know that there are codes and such and they are within their rights. No argument from me there. I would place the principle of honoring the fallen above the job and the rest, yes, and I'm serious.

Think of it like this, Jim... would the people you'd be trying to honor want to be the cause of your getting fired and not being able to provide for your family? I tend to think not.

Just my 2 cents.

[jimnyc]

Think of it like this, Jim... would the people you'd be trying to honor want to be the cause of your getting fired and not being able to provide for your family? I tend to think not.

Just my 2 cents.

They wouldn't be the cause should that have happened, it would be all on my own. I have a piece of jewelry honoring those who lost their lives to cancer. I lost my Mom 3 years ago to the disease. I wouldn't take it off for a million dollars, and certainly not for an employer at a supermarket. You guys are free to call me an idiot if you think I would be tossing a job aside, or that I would be placing the world in danger by serving them food, but I would rather stand for my principles and beliefs. I wouldn't frown upon any other individual who wouldn't do so, as we all remember and believe things differently. But I wouldn't remove a pin, I wouldn't remove a single piece of my jewelry and the only time I would ever cover my tattoos would be if I would normally be wearing a suit anyway.

[Marcus Aurelius]

They wouldn't be the cause should that have happened, it would be all on my own. I have a piece of jewelry honoring those who lost their lives to cancer. I lost my Mom 3 years ago to the disease. I wouldn't take it off for a million dollars, and certainly not for an employer at a supermarket. You guys are free to call me an idiot if you think I would be tossing a job aside, or that I would be placing the world in danger by serving them food, but I would rather stand for my principles and beliefs. I wouldn't frown upon any other individual who wouldn't do so, as we all remember and believe things differently. But I wouldn't remove a pin, I wouldn't remove a single piece of my jewelry and the only time I would ever cover my tattoos would be if I would normally be wearing a suit anyway.

you know I would not call you an idiot for having a different opinion. Hell, I won't even use my typical 'dumb ass' comment :cool: You have an exceedingly strong opinion on this, and there's not a thing wrong with you, or that.

Personally, in order to stand for my principles and beliefs in a situation like this, I'd do the same thign I say people should do when there is a law they dislike. Work to have it changed. I would imagine he'd be able to garner a lot of support for an exception to the rules for the poppy pin, as I understand it's a really big thing over there.

[jimnyc]

you know I would not call you an idiot for having a different opinion. Hell, I won't even use my typical 'dumb ass' comment :cool: You have an exceedingly strong opinion on this, and there's not a thing wrong with you, or that.

Personally, in order to stand for my principles and beliefs in a situation like this, I'd do the same thign I say people should do when there is a law they dislike. Work to have it changed. I would imagine he'd be able to garner a lot of support for an exception to the rules for the poppy pin, as I understand it's a really big thing over there.

No doubt I could work to have it changed, or at least to come to a reasonable compromise. In this case, being the poppy isn't a forever thing, and the Rigby killing just happened AND they say he has a job outside the food area too, I think they should have had him work in one of the other areas - problem solved.

Also, one of the executives have been snapped wearing a poppy in the produce area, a PR picture. I know he wasn't prepping food, but you would think they would understand at least.

[Drummond]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here... if you found a poppy pin in your food from Morrison's and say, damaged a tooth because of it, would you...

A... realize accidents happen, someone was honoring a fallen friend, ignore it and deal with any negative effects from biting the pin on your own.

or

B... sue the crap out of the store for not taking better precautions against things falling into your food.

This is almost a difficult choice. It IS one, because I'm not sure I'd recognise a poppy pin as being, specifically, a poppy pin.

If I knew it was a pin used to keep a poppy in place, I'd definitely choose 'A'. Because respect for our soldiers and all that they've done for us isn't as great, in my opinion, as it SHOULD be. I'd not want to be a part of anything that had the smallest chance of making that even worse.

Now ... LEFTIES suffering that ... they'd queue up for the chance at a bit of soldier-bashing.

[aboutime]

In case anyone wondered. Here is where the idea for Poppies came from.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_red_poppy_represent_in_remembrance_d ay

[gabosaurus]

In summation, you can't choose the rules that you want to break. For whatever reasons you want to break them.

[jimnyc]

In summation, you can't choose the rules that you want to break. For whatever reasons you want to break them.

I agree. And if one loses a job because they didn't adhere to codes, they have no recourse, and likely no one to 'blame' but themselves. Rules are rules and laws are laws and codes are codes. But just one man standing his ground - and they altered half of their policy to allow people outside of food prep areas to now wear them - like their executive did.

http://imageshack.us/a/img837/4307/29428310151644850021473.jpg

[Drummond]

In summation, you can't choose the rules that you want to break. For whatever reasons you want to break them.

Possibly. Although ... societies sometimes see very noble examples of rules being defied. It doesn't always hold true.

Consider those countries dominated by the Third Reich, during World War II. Did no citizen, anywhere, ever have a right to show defiance against a Nazi edict ?

Did no Jews ever have that right ?

In the UK ... did no women ever have the right to fight for the freedom to vote ?

Once you get to the point where you say that rules, just because they ARE rules, should never be broken .. then you might as well knuckle down to anyone wielding a bit of power. Regardless of where that leads.

Some things are worth standing up for. Soldiers thought this, when fighting Hitler. And today, many of us think it reasonable to do that small yet important thing of symbolising our REMEMBRANCE for the sacrifices they made for us all.

Such as, wearing poppies ...

[jimnyc]

On their corporate site - http://www.morrisons-corporate.com/CR/CR-downloads/

Then on the left, download "Corporate responsibility review" pdf file. You'll find the same man wearing the same pin with the same background colors, for anyone doubting that is a Morrison's exec wearing a poppy in the store. And that one is from 2011/12 - whereas the picture I posted is from this year. Both wearing poppies. And no, this doesn't mean a food prep person should therefore be able to do whatever an exec does. I also know that the exec is not preparing food. But hell, they just changed their policy to allow employees outside of food prep to wear them as of yesterday - while it's ok for the execs. At least they changed that portion of their stance, and now allow the poppy and bracelets for those outside of food prep.

[aboutime]

In summation, you can't choose the rules that you want to break. For whatever reasons you want to break them.


Do you ever take your own advice gabby? If so. Re-read what you said above. Then, put it to use.