Any able-bodied adult US citizen who lives in poverty does so by choice.

[BillyBob]

Just thought I point that out. It came up in the Minimum Wage thread and I didn't want to derail the topic.

[fj1200]

Aah yes. The 'ol McDonald's solution.

[BillyBob]

No, the American solution. A person working full time earning minimum wage lives above the poverty level. Poverty has essentially been eradicated in the US.

[DragonStryk72]

No, the American solution. A person working full time earning minimum wage lives above the poverty level. Poverty has essentially been eradicated in the US.

Um, what they're not hiring full-time in your area? Most of the places that hire for min wage, also don't hire full-timers save for a select few, most usually their managers, and not always then. When was the last time you were actually in the job market, bob?

Now, this point said, I'm not a fan of the minimum wage, but min wage or no, that doesn't mean poverty is a choice.

[fj1200]

No, the American solution. A person working full time earning minimum wage lives above the poverty level. Poverty has essentially been eradicated in the US.

Well unfortunately the American Government solution has been erecting barriers to success for those on the lowest rungs of the ladder. Not to mention of course the perverse disincentives inherent in the welfare system. So we have government limiting opportunity on the one side and making it unattractive to even try on the other side.

http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/071212welfare.jpg

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/julias-mother-why-a-single-mom-is-better-off-on-welfare-than-taking-a-69000-a-year-job/

[BillyBob]

Um, what they're not hiring full-time in your area? Most of the places that hire for min wage, also don't hire full-timers save for a select few, most usually their managers, and not always then.

Then a person will have to get 2 part time jobs.




When was the last time you were actually in the job market, bob?

Every day. I'm a self employed contractor.





Now, this point said, I'm not a fan of the minimum wage, but min wage or no, that doesn't mean poverty is a choice.

When isn't it a choice? [keep in mind the parameters of my OP]

[BillyBob]

Well unfortunately the American Government solution has been erecting barriers to success for those on the lowest rungs of the ladder. Not to mention of course the perverse disincentives inherent in the welfare system. So we have government limiting opportunity on the one side and making it unattractive to even try on the other side.

http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/071212welfare.jpg

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/julias-mother-why-a-single-mom-is-better-off-on-welfare-than-taking-a-69000-a-year-job/


The American solution is not the same as the government solution. The government is doing almost everything it can to force more people to be enslaved by socialist programs, including Obamacare.

[fj1200]

The American solution is not the same as the government solution. The government is doing almost everything it can to force more people to be enslaved by socialist programs, including Obamacare.

The problem is that the American Government solution has overwhelmed the American solution; it is that which you don't/won't recognize.

[BillyBob]

The problem is that the American Government solution has overwhelmed the American solution; it is that which you don't/won't recognize.


I fully agree. I said as much.

[Noir]

I would be inclined to agree, if the person in question does not have children.

[Marcus Aurelius]

No, the American solution. A person working full time earning minimum wage lives above the poverty level. Poverty has essentially been eradicated in the US.

only for a single person household.


Federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr... times 40 hours a week is 290.00... times 52 weeks is 15,080 per year.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm#guidelines


<caption>2013 POVERTY GUIDELINES FOR THE 48 CONTIGUOUS STATES
AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA</caption> <thead>
Persons in family/household
Poverty guideline

</thead> <tfoot>
For families/households with more than 8 persons, add $4,020 for each additional person.

</tfoot> <tbody>
1
$11,490


2
15,510


3
19,530


4
23,550


5
27,570


6
31,590


7
35,610


8
39,630

</tbody>

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2013/03/single-person-households-in-us-since.html#.UaAUXNguedw

Estimated number of households in the US...
total: 120,769,718
single person households: 32,395,607
percentage share of single person households: 26.8%


Let's see YOU pay rent and buy food, clothing, transportation, medical, dental, etc, all on minimum wage, as a single person.

[BillyBob]

only for a single person household.


Federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr... times 40 hours a week is 290.00... times 52 weeks is 15,080 per year.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm#guidelines


<tbody>
Persons in family/household
Poverty guideline


For families/households with more than 8 persons, add $4,020 for each additional person.


1
$11,490


2
15,510


3
19,530


4
23,550


5
27,570


6
31,590


7
35,610


8
39,630

</tbody>

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2013/03/single-person-households-in-us-since.html#.UaAUXNguedw

Estimated number of households in the US...
total: 120,769,718
single person households: 32,395,607
percentage share of single person households: 26.8%


Let's see YOU pay rent and buy food, clothing, transportation, medical, dental, etc, all on minimum wage, as a single person.

First you confirmed my point, then you lost your mind and argued against the very point you just confirmed.

Ask your doctor to increase your meds, it's your last hope.

[BillyBob]

I would be inclined to agree, if the person in question does not have children.


Having children is a choice.

[Noir]

Having children is a choice.

In most cases yes. But having a child today, does not mean you'll be in the same position in a year or twos time. Partners die, or leave. Children are often used as a glue to try and strengthen a partnership, when it will only put more strain on it etc.

[taft2012]

We have the richest poor people in the world. If people are living in poverty it's just because we've redefined poverty.

I've traveled around the world, extensively in China and the Philippines. I've seen real poverty and have yet to see it on our shores.

Poverty is people wearing rags and wondering where their next meal will come from. We don't have that here, aside from homeless people who are either mentally ill and incapable of filing for assistance, or scammers doing some professional panhandling.

Go to any ghetto in NYC and the kids are all coming out of public housing wearing fine Tommy Hilfiger clothes, carrying iPhones, iPads, iPods, etc.

That's not poverty. Poverty is the kid on the other side of the planet who spends more than 10 hours a day working for peanuts *MAKING* those iPhones, iPads, iPods, etc.

Or sewing those Tommy Hilfiger clothes. All so the family has something to eat and a place to live.

That's poverty.

[cadet]

Um, what they're not hiring full-time in your area? Most of the places that hire for min wage, also don't hire full-timers save for a select few, most usually their managers, and not always then. When was the last time you were actually in the job market, bob?

Now, this point said, I'm not a fan of the minimum wage, but min wage or no, that doesn't mean poverty is a choice.

A lifetime of it is.


But if you're a regular guy, you might have your ups and downs when it comes to money. So there's no point in worrying about poverty, people will get out of it in their own time. Something uncle sam doesn't understand is that people are continually jumping between middle class, poor, and rich.
But if you're poor your entire life, you deserve it for not getting off your butt and trying. That's harsh but it's my opinion.

[Marcus Aurelius]

First you confirmed my point, then you lost your mind and argued against the very point you just confirmed.

Ask your doctor to increase your meds, it's your last hope.

you're an idiot. Your point was only valid for 26.8% of the households in the country. Anyone with more than one person in the household, making minimum wage and relying on one income (a huge percentage of households), is STILL under the poverty line.

Poverty has NOT been eliminated, dumb ass.

[BillyBob]

Your point was only valid for 26.8% of the households in the country.

My point is valid for 100% of the households in this country.

[BillyBob]

In 1776, the U.S. was among the world's poorest nations. In less than two centuries, we became the world's richest nation by a long shot. Americans who today are deemed poor by Census Bureau definitions have more material goods than middle-class people as recently as 60 years ago. Dr. Robert Rector and Rachel Sheffield give us insights in "Understanding Poverty in the United States: Surprising Facts About America's Poor" (9/13/2011). Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. Nearly three-fourths have a car or truck, and 31 percent have two or more. Two-thirds have cable or satellite TV. Half have one or more computers. Forty-two percent own their homes. The average poor American has more living space than the typical non-poor person in Sweden, France or the U.K. Ninety-six percent of poor parents stated that their children were never hungry during the year because they couldn't afford food.

The poverty rate among blacks is 36 percent. Most black poverty is found in female-headed households, but the poverty rate among black married couples has been in single digits since 1994 and stands today at 7 percent. Today's black illegitimacy rate is 72 percent, but in the 1940s, it hovered around 14 percent. Less than 50 percent of black students graduate from high school, and most of those who do graduate have a level of academic proficiency far below that of their white counterparts. Black men make up almost 40 percent of the prison population.
Here are my several two-part questions: Is having babies without the benefit of marriage a bad decision, and is doing so likely to affect income? Are dropping out of school and participating in criminal activity bad decisions, and are they likely to have an effect on income? Finally, do people have free will and the capacity to make decisions, or is their behavior a result of instincts over which they have no control?


Poverty Nonsense (http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/poverty-nonsense.html)

[BillyBob]

"How Poor Are America's Poor? Examining the 'Plague' of Poverty in America"

• Forty-three percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage and a porch or patio.
• Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
• Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded; two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
• The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
• Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.
• Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
• Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
• Eighty-nine percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.

[jimnyc]

you're an idiot. Your point was only valid for 26.8% of the households in the country. Anyone with more than one person in the household, making minimum wage and relying on one income (a huge percentage of households), is STILL under the poverty line.

Poverty has NOT been eliminated, dumb ass.

Marcus, please try and make your points without continually using the personal insults. I don't want to be an ass in every single thread, but meet me half way and lessen the idiot and dumb ass stuff. Even I think it's funny when warranted, and when we aren't dealing with non-stop feuds, I don't even see as problematic. But since you guys are obviously at odds with one another, please put that aside, or take it to the cage with very little restrictions. :)

[aboutime]

We have the richest poor people in the world. If people are living in poverty it's just because we've redefined poverty.

I've traveled around the world, extensively in China and the Philippines. I've seen real poverty and have yet to see it on our shores.

Poverty is people wearing rags and wondering where their next meal will come from. We don't have that here, aside from homeless people who are either mentally ill and incapable of filing for assistance, or scammers doing some professional panhandling.

Go to any ghetto in NYC and the kids are all coming out of public housing wearing fine Tommy Hilfiger clothes, carrying iPhones, iPads, iPods, etc.

That's not poverty. Poverty is the kid on the other side of the planet who spends more than 10 hours a day working for peanuts *MAKING* those iPhones, iPads, iPods, etc.

Or sewing those Tommy Hilfiger clothes. All so the family has something to eat and a place to live.

That's poverty.


taft. More to your absolutely correct post above. I remember just a few months ago when I learned of a POOR woman living in Pennsylvania who...if every govt. assistance program she used was added up at TAX TIME...totaled to more than $80, 000 PER YEAR.
That is the extent of having the RICHEST poor people on Earth.
In fact. Her POOR income nearly doubles the Income of My family annually, of both myself, and my wife.
And people complain about my Military Retirement being one of those GOVT. HAND-OUT's like this woman?????
Really? I earned my pension with 30 years of experience, work, hardship, and forcing my wife and son's to apply for food stamps at one time. While I enjoyed being at sea on many of the Luxury Cruises to places around the world...like YANKEE STATION off the coast of Vietnam, and in the Persian Gulf....for visits to the Desert Hotel's being attacked by SCUDS!

[tailfins]

When was the last time you were actually in the job market, bob?

Anyone who cries about the job market REALLY irritates me. I have hit bottom and went where I needed to go. "I can't move, I have an extended family" some say. Be grateful you HAVE an extended family. Can anyone tell me of a time since WWII when NO PLACE in the US had a good job market? North Dakota is begging for people who want to work!

[BillyBob]

Anyone who cries about the job market REALLY irritates me. I have hit bottom and went where I needed to go. "I can't move, I have an extended family" some say. Be grateful you HAVE an extended family. Can anyone tell me of a time since WWII when NO PLACE in the US had a good job market? North Dakota is begging for people who want to work!


That's the difference between people who want to work and make a better life for themselves, and the people who don't. Oh sure, they'll invent an endless stream of excuses, but the simple truth is they don't want to work. It's even worse when other people make excuses for them, it reinforces their bad choices.