More islamic honor killings in Egypt

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/05/24/egypt-10-men-suspected-for-killing-3-women-in-honor-crime/?test=latestnews


A mother and two daughters were allegedly killed by male relatives in southern Egypt who believed they'd had affairs, the latest apparent example of so-called "honor killings" in which women are slain for violating traditional morals in the conservative region, a security official said Friday. Police believe the 10 men stormed the house of the women, strangling them and beating them with sharp tools, the official said, based on the alleged confession of one of the suspects. The men wrapped the women's bodies in blankets, weighted them with stones and throw them in the river Nile, the official added.
He said one of the men, arrested on Thursday, gave a detailed account of the killings and said they were intended to protect the family's honor.



let me guess, Jahil... they weren't 'really' Islamic... right?

[aboutime]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/05/24/egypt-10-men-suspected-for-killing-3-women-in-honor-crime/?test=latestnews




let me guess, Jahil... they weren't 'really' Islamic... right?





After reading many of these endless accounts almost daily, or weekly. I do tend to wonder how much Honor jafar is willing to protect?

[jafar00]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/05/24/egypt-10-men-suspected-for-killing-3-women-in-honor-crime/?test=latestnews




let me guess, Jahil... they weren't 'really' Islamic... right?




They were murderers, and they were arrested for it. And yes, the act of honour killing is not Islamic. It is a pre-Islamic tribal custom.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They were murderers, and they were arrested for it. And yes, the act of honour killing is not Islamic. It is a pre-Islamic tribal custom.

Read this Jafar and share your comments afterward. I am truly interested if you agree with this brave man that speaks the truth about Islam or if you will denounce him. I the socalled "hater of muslims" applaud him for his courage, his honesty and integrity. How about you?
Will you now do the same?-Tyr

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/columnist-tarek-fatah-u-k-beheading-shows-its-time-to-fight-the-doctrine-of-jihad/
(http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/columnist-tarek-fatah-u-k-beheading-shows-its-time-to-fight-the-doctrine-of-jihad/)
Columnist Tarek Fatah: U.K. Beheading Shows: It’s Time To Fight the Doctrine of Jihad
<abbr class="published" title="May 23, 2013 10:10 pm">May 23, 2013</abbr> · by Moderator (http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/author/administration01/) · in Muslims WorldWide (http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/category/muslims-worldwide/)

all forms of hate and terrorism.“
The Islamic Society of Britain joined in the chorus, stating, “justifying this killing in the name of faith or religion is false and rejected,” (http://www.isb.org.uk/woolwich-terror-statement/)again failing to mention the fact the terrorists were killing in the name of Islam, not just any “faith or religion.”
Hundreds of British Muslims tweeted their condemnation (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/05/not-in-the-name-of-islam-british-muslims-denounce-the-woolwich-attack/) of the act, but not one individual or organization had the courage to point out and admit the fact Sharia-backed doctrine of armed jihad does permit holy war on non-Muslims, specially in the land of the “kufaar.”
This was an opportunity for the Muslim leadership to confess they have failed and that the time has come to admit that jihadis cannot be fought without fighting the doctrine of jihad.
It is worth noting that not a single Muslim cleric since 9/11 has mustered the courage to say the doctrine of armed jihad is defunct and inapplicable in the 21st century. They rightfully denounce terrorism, but dare not denounce jihad.
On the contrary, we keep hearing the propaganda that “Jihad” has nothing to do with warfare. Here is what the “Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam” has to say about Jihad:
“DJIHAD(A), holy war. The spread of Islam by arms is a religious duty upon Muslims in general. It narrowly escaped being a sixth ‘rukn,’ or fundamental duty.” (http://www.brill.com/shorter-encyclopaedia-islam)
The only Muslim group that has come to this conclusion are Ahmadi Muslims, whose founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in the nineteenth century had the wisdom to declare:
“I have brought a commandment for you people; it is that henceforth ‘jihad by sword’ [armed jihad] is forbidden … Now jihad for the sake of religion is prohibited.” (http://www.scribd.com/doc/142423710/The-1954-Justice-Munir-Commission-Report-on-the-anti-Ahmadi-Riots-of-Punjab-in-1953)
For uttering these words, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was deemed to have blasphemed and was declared an apostate by the orthodoxy in Islam; the same school of thought that provides intellectual sustenance to the Muslim establishment in the West today.
The armed jihad launched against the infidels, is clearly promoted by the 20th-century writings of such Islamists as Syed Qutb and Hassan al-Banna of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and the late Syed Maudoodi of Jamaat-e-Islami of Indo-Pakistan.
In his book Towards Understanding Islam, Maudoodi exhorts ordinary Muslims to launch jihad, as in armed struggle, against non-Muslims. “Jihad is part of this overall defence of Islam,” he writes. In case the reader is left with any doubt about the meaning of the word “jihad,” Maudoodi clarifies:
“In the language of the Divine Law, this word (jihad) is used specifically for the war that is waged solely in the name of God against those who perpetrate oppression as enemies of Islam. This supreme sacrifice is the responsibility of all Muslims.”
Maudoodi goes on to label Muslims who refuse the call to armed jihad as apostates:
“Jihad is as much a primary duty as are daily prayers or fasting. One who avoids it is a sinner. His every claim to being a Muslim is doubtful. He is plainly a hypocrite who fails in the test of sincerity and all his acts of worship are a sham, a worthless, hollow show of deception.”If Maudoodi’s exhortations are not enough to motivate Muslims to conduct acts of terror, we have the words of the late Hassan al-Banna being distributed in our schools and universities. Al-Banna makes it quite clear that the word “jihad” means armed conflict. He mocks those who claim jihad is merely an internal struggle.
Al-Banna says this redefinition of the term “jihad” to depict it as a non-violent act of self-examination, is in fact a conspiracy so that “Muslims should become negligent.”
And here is what Syed Qutb, another Egyptian stalwart of the Islamist movement and the Muslim Brotherhood, writes in his seminal work on Islam and its relationship with the West, Milestones:
“A Muslim will remain prepared to fight against it (non-Muslim country), whether it be his birthplace or a place where his relatives reside or where his property or any other material interests are located.”Unless the leaders of British mosques as well as the Islamic organizations in the U.K. denounce the doctrine of jihad as pronounced by the Muslim Brotherhood and Jamaat-e-Islami, and distance themselves from the ideology of Qutb, al-Banna and Maudoodi, they stand complicit in the havoc that these jihadis are raining down on the rest of us.

[aboutime]

Tyr. Do you, or does anyone else know if 'jafar' is the author of the latest NEW YORK TIMES BEST SELLER LIST for...

"EXCUSES, and HOW TO CONVINCE MYSELF, ANY EXCUSE WILL DO?"

[BillyBob]

They were murderers, and they were arrested for it. And yes, the act of honour killing is not Islamic. It is a pre-Islamic tribal custom.


Good Lord, muzzies are already about 1500 years behind everyone else, you mean to tell me that there are pre muzzies who prefer to remain living in an even more ancient, backward time?

[stevecanuck]

And yes, the act of honour killing is not Islamic.
You know that's not true. The story of Khadr and Moses in sura 18 makes you a liar yet again.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You know that's not true. The story of Khadr and Moses in sura 18 makes you a liar yet again.




18:4 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/18/4)to top (http://www.debatepolicy.com/#0)

http://c00022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/18_4.png

Sahih International
And to warn those who say, " Allah has taken a son."


A warning to any that dare testify that Jesus is the Son of God. In Islam warnings have very severe consequences attached, most often death if not heeded.
Jafar knows this. He knows that Christians and Jews are Islam's two greatest enemies and Islam commands that they both be completely and utterly destroyed!
For both deny that Islam has any validity at all. And in that both are right.... -Tyr

[jafar00]

Good Lord, muzzies are already about 1500 years behind everyone else, you mean to tell me that there are pre muzzies who prefer to remain living in an even more ancient, backward time?

I wouldn't quite put it so eloquently, but yes.


You know that's not true. The story of Khadr and Moses in sura 18 makes you a liar yet again.

How in the hell do you equate that story with honour killing?

[BillyBob]

A 17-year-old Iraqi Kurd in Landskrona sentenced to eight years in prison for the murder of his sister Maria. According to the court was the motive for the act to restore family honor.
The 19-year-old woman was killed by 107 wounds with two knives and scissors to different parts of the body. According to a legal medical report, it took several minutes to inflict her injuries. The district court wrote that damages therefore caused her great suffering and high death anxiety.




This guy's lawyer thinks the 8 year sentence the muslim received for the honor killing is excessive.



“I thought the sentence was very strong, it was a very tough punishment. I do not share at all the district court’s perception of the seriousness of the offense,” says the 17-year-old’s defense attorney, Mr. Jansson.
“This is an incredibly harsh sentence. My client is in shock,” Urban Jansson, told the TT news agency.


http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-teen-stabs-his-abused-sister-107-times-in-honor-killing-gets-8-years/

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A 17-year-old Iraqi Kurd in Landskrona sentenced to eight years in prison for the murder of his sister Maria. According to the court was the motive for the act to restore family honor.
The 19-year-old woman was killed by 107 wounds with two knives and scissors to different parts of the body. According to a legal medical report, it took several minutes to inflict her injuries. The district court wrote that damages therefore caused her great suffering and high death anxiety.




This guy's lawyer thinks the 8 year sentence the muslim received for the honor killing is excessive.



“I thought the sentence was very strong, it was a very tough punishment. I do not share at all the district court’s perception of the seriousness of the offense,” says the 17-year-old’s defense attorney, Mr. Jansson.
“This is an incredibly harsh sentence. My client is in shock,” Urban Jansson, told the TT news agency.


http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-teen-stabs-his-abused-sister-107-times-in-honor-killing-gets-8-years/


8 years for murder! That is outrageous, at least it is according to Sharia law that sanctions certain murders such as honor killings.

[stevecanuck]

I wouldn't quite put it so eloquently, but yes.



How in the hell do you equate that story with honour killing?

http://islaam.net/main/quransearch.php?language=english&q=&surah_num=18&ayah_num=&start=61&searchtype=exactphrase

[aboutime]

Isn't it about time we stop playing the P.C. games, the word games, semantics, and rhetoric and stop calling it HONOR killings???

MURDER IS MURDER. PEOPLE BECOME DEAD ON PURPOSE.

There is NO HONOR is Killing anyone. Even in Wars. The only HONOR bestowed goes to those who have DIED.

HONOR is for MEMORIAL DAY.

[jafar00]

http://islaam.net/main/quransearch.php?language=english&q=&surah_num=18&ayah_num=&start=61&searchtype=exactphrase

I still have no idea what you are talking about. The story of Khidr and Moses is one of patience when seeking to learn that which is beyond your understanding. If you knew the future, things that may upset you in the present would not bother you much. If you knew knowledge from God that others did not know, you would understand the incomprehensible.

[aboutime]

I still have no idea what you are talking about. The story of Khidr and Moses is one of patience when seeking to learn that which is beyond your understanding. If you knew the future, things that may upset you in the present would not bother you much. If you knew knowledge from God that others did not know, you would understand the incomprehensible.


jafar. That's cute. When you are unable to lie, or make excuses. You use Ignorance of whatever someone presents as factual.

And you really are convinced you are able to FOOL us????

[stevecanuck]

I still have no idea what you are talking about. The story of Khidr and Moses is one of patience when seeking to learn that which is beyond your understanding. If you knew the future, things that may upset you in the present would not bother you much. If you knew knowledge from God that others did not know, you would understand the incomprehensible.
Why did Khidr murder the youth?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I wouldn't quite put it so eloquently, but yes.



How in the hell do you equate that story with honour killing?

like this, dumb ass...



[18:80] "As for the boy, his parents were good believers, and we saw that he was going to burden them with his transgression and disbelief.*

Footnote (http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/noframes/ch18fn.html#80)
[18:81] "We willed that your Lord substitute in his place another son; one who is better in righteousness and kindness.


He was killed because he was 'going to' bring dishonor on his parents. Not because he did, but 'was going to'. Prior... before... etc.

He was killed to keep his parents honor intact.

Honor killing.


Here's an explanation from a noted and respected Islamic scholar...


Abdullah Yusuf Ali, (1872 –1953) was an Islamic scholar who translated the Qur'an into English. His translation of the Qur'an is one of the most widely-known and used in the English-speaking world. In his childhood, Ali received a religious education and could recite the entire Qur'an from memory. He spoke both Arabic and English fluently. He studied English literature and studied at several European universities. Yusuf Ali's best-known work is his book
The Holy Qur'an: Text, Translation and Commentary,
Surah Al Kahf


http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsiraya/018%20Kahf.htm#%D9%84%D9%92%D8%BA%D9%8F%D9%84%D9%8 E


80. "As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith,
... فَخَشِينَا أَن يُرْهِقَهُمَا طُغْيَانًا وَكُفْرًا ﴿٨٠﴾
and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man).
C2423. This seemed at first sight even a more cruel act than scuttling the boat. But the danger was also greater.
Khidhr knew that the youth was a potential parricide. His parents were worthy, pious people, who had brought him up with love.
He had apparently gone wrong. Perhaps he had already been guilty of murders and robberies and had escaped the law by subtleties and fraud.
See next note.
فَأَرَدْنَا أَن يُبْدِلَهُمَا رَبُّهُمَا خَيْرًا مِّنْهُ زَكَاةً وَأَقْرَبَ رُحْمًا ﴿٨١﴾http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsiraya/ArTop_Titles_files/up.gif (http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsiraya/018%20Kahf.htm#Tafsir%20Of%20Ayat)
81. "So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection.
C2424. The son was practically an outlaw, -a danger to the public and a particular source of grief to his righteous parents.
Even so, his summary capital punishment would have been unjustified if Khidhr had been acting on his own. But Khidhr was not acting on his own: see the latter part of the next verse.
The plural "we" also implies that he was not acting on his own. He was acting on higher authority and removing a public scourge, who was also a source of extreme sorrow and humiliation to his parents.
His parents are promised a better-behaved son who would love them and be a credit to them.


Honor killing.

[aboutime]

I still have no idea what you are talking about. The story of Khidr and Moses is one of patience when seeking to learn that which is beyond your understanding. If you knew the future, things that may upset you in the present would not bother you much. If you knew knowledge from God that others did not know, you would understand the incomprehensible.


jafar. That statement you made above. The very first sentence, in fact. Is valid, and proves what most of us have thought about every one of your posts. Not just today, but everyday. Glad to finally see you are willing to admit catching on.

[jafar00]

Why did Khidr murder the youth?

Because of future knowledge of the evil the child would spread.

Imagine you went back in time and heard of a child being born by the name of Adolf Hitler. With the foreknowledge of what he would become, would you go and the baby Hitler?

[jafar00]

like this, dumb ass...




He was killed because he was 'going to' bring dishonor on his parents. Not because he did, but 'was going to'. Prior... before... etc.

He was killed to keep his parents honor intact.

Honor killing.


Here's an explanation from a noted and respected Islamic scholar...



http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsiraya/018%20Kahf.htm#%D9%84%D9%92%D8%BA%D9%8F%D9%84%D9%8 E



Honor killing.

No way can you get honour killing out of that and that is not what the Tafsir explains. The kid was going to be bad news in the future. Possible Parricide (or would end up killing his parents) and would spread horror and death in his wake. Khidr was not acting alone. He had instructions from God to do this.

Honour killing in the context of today is nothing like what Khidr did and that verse could never be used to justify it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

No way can you get honour killing out of that and that is not what the Tafsir explains. The kid was going to be bad news in the future. Possible Parricide (or would end up killing his parents) and would spread horror and death in his wake. Khidr was not acting alone. He had instructions from God to do this.

Honour killing in the context of today is nothing like what Khidr did and that verse could never be used to justify it.

So, you're calling the Islamic scholar I DIRECTLY QUOTED a liar... got it.

fucking dumb ass.

[jafar00]

So, you're calling the Islamic scholar I DIRECTLY QUOTED a liar... got it.

fucking dumb ass.

No. I just announced your failed attempt to twist it.

[taft2012]

They were murderers, and they were arrested for it. And yes, the act of honour killing is not Islamic. It is a pre-Islamic tribal custom.

Tribalism is a very localized thing, whereas these killings are worldwide. The common denominator is not any particular tribe, but rather Islam.

Explain.

[Marcus Aurelius]

No. I just announced your failed attempt to twist it.

the level of your lies for your false religion know no bounds. I pity you.

[jafar00]

Tribalism is a very localized thing, whereas these killings are worldwide. The common denominator is not any particular tribe, but rather Islam.

Explain.

It is unfortunately not confined to Islamic countries or Muslims. Honor killing is the same across all religions.

Such as...

Three Coptic brothers accused of killing sister, her husband and child for converting to Islam (http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/three-coptic-brothers-accused-of-killing-sister-her-husband-and-child-for-converting-to-islam/)

The ex-files: Former wife killed ‘for converting to Islam’ (http://tribune.com.pk/story/221108/the-ex-files-former-wife-killed-for-converting-to-islam/)

Christian Man Killed His Wife For Converting To Islam, Kills Himself (http://www.gistmania.com/talk/topic,152897.0.html)


Did you know that killing is encouraged in the Bible?

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

No such thing exists in Islam. There is nothing in the Qur'aan to support it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It is unfortunately not confined to Islamic countries or Muslims. Honor killing is the same across all religions.

Such as...

Three Coptic brothers accused of killing sister, her husband and child for converting to Islam (http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/three-coptic-brothers-accused-of-killing-sister-her-husband-and-child-for-converting-to-islam/)

The ex-files: Former wife killed ‘for converting to Islam’ (http://tribune.com.pk/story/221108/the-ex-files-former-wife-killed-for-converting-to-islam/)

Christian Man Killed His Wife For Converting To Islam, Kills Himself (http://www.gistmania.com/talk/topic,152897.0.html)
Please show us the number of honor killings in Christianity is anywhere near the number of honor killings in Islam, dumb ass.

Did you know that killing is encouraged in the Bible?

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
That's the Old testament. It was meant for thnat specific time, not to be followed today. (that argument sound familiar, dumb ass??)

No such thing exists in Islam. There is nothing in the Qur'aan to support it.
Bullshit. Multiple posters have posted passages from the Qur'aan, Hadiths etc. with Islamic scholar commentary, proving honor killing is sanctioned in the Qur'aan... you conveniently ignore them.



My comments in RED above.

[Voted4Reagan]

Because of future knowledge of the evil the child would spread.

Imagine you went back in time and heard of a child being born by the name of Adolf Hitler. With the foreknowledge of what he would become, would you go and the baby Hitler?

Simply put.... NO

What if it was Goebbels or someone else that was smarter and not mentally insane? The Reich might still be alive today. It was Hitlers narcissistic behavior that was his downfall. His paranoia and mental instability assured the destruction of the Reich.

With a more mentally balanced perso the war may not have ended as it did.

You cant deal in Hypotheticals....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It is unfortunately not confined to Islamic countries or Muslims. Honor killing is the same across all religions.

Such as...

Three Coptic brothers accused of killing sister, her husband and child for converting to Islam (http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/three-coptic-brothers-accused-of-killing-sister-her-husband-and-child-for-converting-to-islam/)

The ex-files: Former wife killed ‘for converting to Islam’ (http://tribune.com.pk/story/221108/the-ex-files-former-wife-killed-for-converting-to-islam/)

Christian Man Killed His Wife For Converting To Islam, Kills Himself (http://www.gistmania.com/talk/topic,152897.0.html)


Did you know that killing is encouraged in the Bible?

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)



That was in the Old Testament. The bible has both an old and a New testament. You should study it sometime. The New Testament gives new instructions and instructs against using the violence of old.
http://feliciancjpo.wordpress.com/bible-verses-dealing-with-peace-and-nonviolence/

Bible Verses Dealing with Peace and Nonviolence

<!-- .entry-header -->Bible Verses Dealing with Peace and Nonviolence
Bible verses: Matt 5:39 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+5%3A39&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)
Deut 30:15-20 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Deuteronomy+30%3A15%2D20&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); Matt 5:1-48 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+5%3A1%2D48&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 12:9-14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+12%3A9%2D14&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 23:1-36 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+23%3A1%2D36&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 26:36-75 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+26%3A36%2D75&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 27:1-56 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+27%3A1%2D56&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); Mark 14:32-72 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Mark+14%3A32%2D72&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); Luke 9:51-56 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+9%3A51%2D56&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 22:39-71 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+22%3A39%2D71&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 23:1-56 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+23%3A1%2D56&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 24:1-53 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+24%3A1%2D53&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); John 2:13-22 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+2%3A13%2D22&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); 13:1-17 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+13%3A1%2D17&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); I Peter 1:13-16 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Peter+1%3A13%2D16&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); Rom 12:21 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Romans+12%3A21&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on); I Pet 2:21-24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Peter+2%3A21%2D24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

<tbody>
Exodus 14:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Exodus+14%3A14&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The Lord will fight for you; you have only to be still.



Numbers 6:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Numbers+6%3A24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

May the Lord bless you…and give you peace



Numbers 12:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Numbers+12%3A3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Moses was more humble than anyone else….



Deuteronomy 9:5 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Deuteronomy+9%3A5&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Not because of your righteousness, but their wickedness…



Deuteronomy 17:16 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Deuteronomy+17%3A16&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The king must not acquire great numbers of horses…



Joshua 24:12 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Joshua+24%3A12&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

You did not (drive them out) by your own sword and bow



1 Samuel 2:9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Samuel+2%3A9&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

It is not by strength that one prevails;



1 Samuel 8:11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Samuel+8%3A11&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The king will take your sons…and the Lord will not answer



1 Samuel 10:19 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Samuel+10%3A19&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

You have rejected God…and asked for a king



1 Samuel 17:47 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Samuel+17%3A47&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

It is not by sword or spear that the Lord saves;



1 Samuel 25:33 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Samuel+25%3A33&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

May you be blessed…for keeping me from bloodshed/vengeance



1 Chronicles 22:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Chronicles+22%3A8&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

You have fought many wars…and are not to build a house for my Name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in my sight. But you will have a son who will be a man of peace



1 Chronicles 28:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Chronicles+28%3A3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

You are not to build God’s house because you are a warrior



Psalms 11:5 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+11%3A5&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The soul of the Lord hates…those who love violence



Psalms 17:4 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+17%3A4&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

I have kept myself from the ways of the violent



Psalms 20:7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+20%3A7&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God.



Psalms 33:16 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+33%3A16&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

A king is not saved by his great army….



Psalms 34:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+34%3A14&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Turn from evil; do good; seek peace and pursue it



Psalms 35:20 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+35%3A20&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

(The ungodly) make false accusations against those living quietly



Psalms 44:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+44%3A3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

It was not by their sword that they won their land….



Psalms 44:6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+44%3A6&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

My sword does not bring me victory…



Psalms 46:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+46%3A8&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

He makes wars cease to the ends of the earth



Psalms 68:30 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+68%3A30&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Scatter the nations who delight in war.



Psalms 120:6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+120%3A6&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Too long have I lived among those who hate peace. I am a man of peace; but when I speak, they are for war.



Psalms 140:1-2 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+140%3A1%2D2&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Protect me from the violent who…stir up wars continually



Psalms 146:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Psalms+146%3A3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Do not put your trust in princes, who cannot save



Proverbs 13:2 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Proverbs+13%3A2&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The unfaithful have a craving for violence.



Ecclesiastes 9:18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Ecclesiastes+9%3A18&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Wisdom is better than weapons of war



Isaiah 9:6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Isaiah+9%3A6&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

A child has been born…and he is named…Prince of Peace



Isaiah 31:1 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Isaiah+31%3A1&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Woe to those who…rely on horses/chariots/horsemen



Isaiah 59:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Isaiah+59%3A8&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The way of peace they do not know



Jeremiah 4:19 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Jeremiah+4%3A19&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

I writhe in pain…I cannot keep silent…for I hear…the alarm of war.



Ezra 8:22 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Ezra+8%3A22&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

I was ashamed to ask the king for soldiers to protect us



Hosea 1:7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hosea+1%3A7&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

I will save…not by bow, sword, battle, horses, horsemen



Hosea 2:18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hosea+2%3A18&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Bow/sword/battle I will abolish from the land



Hosea 10:13 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hosea+10%3A13&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Because you depend on warriors…you will be destroyed.



Hosea 11:9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hosea+11%3A9&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

I am God not man; I will not come in wrath



Hosea 14:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hosea+14%3A3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Assyria cannot save us; we will not ride war-horses



Micah 4:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Micah+4%3A3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Nations will not train for war anymore.



Micah 5:2-5 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Micah+5%3A2%2D5&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

One who is to rule in Israel…shall be the one of peace.



Micah 5:10 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Micah+5%3A10&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

In that day…I will cut off your horses…and destroy your chariots.



Nahum 1:15 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Nahum+1%3A15&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Look!! The feet of one…who proclaims peace!!



Zechariah 4:6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Zechariah+4%3A6&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit


</tbody>
New Testament verses

*=teachings of Jesus

<tbody>
*Matthew 5:9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+5%3A9&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God



*Matthew 5:38-42 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+5%3A38%2D42&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Do not resist one who is evil



*Matthew 5:43 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+5%3A43&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Love your enemies; pray for persecutors



*Matthew 26:52 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+26%3A52&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

All who take the sword will perish by the sword



*Mark 9:50 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Mark+9%3A50&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Be at peace with each other.



Luke 1:79 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+1%3A79&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

(Jesus will) guide our feet into the path of peace.



*Luke 6:27 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+6%3A27&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Love your enemies; bless those who persecute you



*Luke 19:42 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+19%3A42&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

If only you (Jerusalem) had known what would bring you peace



*Luke 22:51 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+22%3A51&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Jesus said, “No more of this!! (striking with the sword)”



*John 14:27 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+14%3A27&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Peace I leave with you…not as the world gives do I give…



*John 14:30 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+14%3A30&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The ruler of this world…has no hold on me



*John 16:2 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+16%3A2&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Anyone who kills you thinks he is offering service to God …because they have not known the Father



*John 18:11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+18%3A11&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath…”



*John 18:36 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+18%3A36&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

If my kingdom were of this world…my servants would fight



*Acts 5:29 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Acts+5%3A29&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

We must obey God, rather than man.



*Romans 3:17 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Romans+3%3A17&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

No one seeks God; the way of peace they do not know



*Romans 12:17 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Romans+12%3A17&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Return no one evil for evil…live at peace with everyone



*Romans 12:21 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Romans+12%3A21&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Overcome evil with good



*Romans 14:19 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Romans+14%3A19&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Make every effort to do what leads to peace



*1 Corinthians 2:6-8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Corinthians+2%3A6%2D8&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The rulers of this age…come to nothing…do not understand



*1 Corinthians 7:15 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Corinthians+7%3A15&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

God has called us to live in peace.



*1 Corinthians 14:33 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Corinthians+14%3A33&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

God is not a god of disorder but of peace.



*2 Corinthians 10:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=2+Corinthians+10%3A3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.



*2 Corinthians 10:4 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=2+Corinthians+10%3A4&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.



*Ephesians 2:17 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Ephesians+2%3A17&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

He preached peace to you who were far…and near



*Colossians 3:15 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Colossians+3%3A15&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Let the peace of Christ rule in your heart…



*1 Thessalonians 5:15 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Thessalonians+5%3A15&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Do not return evil for evil.



*2 Timothy 2:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=2+Timothy+2%3A24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

The servant of the Lord must be gentle to all



*Hebrews 12:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hebrews+12%3A14&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and be holy



*James 3:18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=James+3%3A18&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest/righteousness.



*1 Peter 2:23 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Peter+2%3A23&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

…He (Jesus) did not retaliate…He made no threats



*1 Peter 3:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Peter+3%3A8&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Do not return evil for evil.



*1 Peter 3:11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+Peter+3%3A11&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on)

Turn from evil; do good; seek peace; pursue it


</tbody>

[aboutime]

After reading, and learning more, and more of this information over the last several years.

I must honestly say. HONOR KILLINGS ARE JUST.....SICK!

No need to discuss it, explain it, or find reasons to excuse it.
Anyone who hides behind their religion to give acceptance to such actions.

ARE SICK. Period.

[taft2012]

It is unfortunately not confined to Islamic countries or Muslims. Honor killing is the same across all religions.

Such as...

Three Coptic brothers accused of killing sister, her husband and child for converting to Islam (http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/three-coptic-brothers-accused-of-killing-sister-her-husband-and-child-for-converting-to-islam/)

The ex-files: Former wife killed ‘for converting to Islam’ (http://tribune.com.pk/story/221108/the-ex-files-former-wife-killed-for-converting-to-islam/)

Christian Man Killed His Wife For Converting To Islam, Kills Himself (http://www.gistmania.com/talk/topic,152897.0.html)


Did you know that killing is encouraged in the Bible?

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

No such thing exists in Islam. There is nothing in the Qur'aan to support it.

The laws of Deuteronomy were negated by the New Covenant brought by Jesus Christ. And even so, Jews do not go about killing those who "worship other gods."

The key difference to the honor killings is that Christians do not attribute their behavior to Jesus Christ, or excuse their behavior as justified by their faith, or have numerous clergyman emerge who rationalize the criminal behavior with scripture.

Another difference is that honor killings are rare outside of Islam. Any such behavior by a Christian becomes news like "man bites dog." When a Muslim commits an honor killing it's just another day of halalunacy.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tribalism is a very localized thing, whereas these killings are worldwide. The common denominator is not any particular tribe, but rather Islam.

Explain.

"Worldwide", such a small trivial thing to overlook! Jafar obviously would miss an elephant in a phone booth.

[jafar00]

The laws of Deuteronomy were negated by the New Covenant brought by Jesus Christ. And even so, Jews do not go about killing those who "worship other gods."

Then why bother including the Old Testament in your Bible if you continually brush it aside as irrelevant?


The key difference to the honor killings is that Christians do not attribute their behavior to Jesus Christ, or excuse their behavior as justified by their faith, or have numerous clergyman emerge who rationalize the criminal behavior with scripture.

Another difference is that honor killings are rare outside of Islam. Any such behavior by a Christian becomes news like "man bites dog." When a Muslim commits an honor killing it's just another day of halalunacy.

Doing something wrong and saying it is Islamic or shouting Allahu Akbar while you do it doesn't make it Islamic. If the killer of the UK soldier yelled, "Praise Jesus" as he hacked away would it make it a Christian act?

Honour killing goes across all cultures and religions. Thousands of women are killed in (hindu) India because they didn't pay enough dowry. Likewise there are a lot of women (and men) are killed in South America but they call them "crimes of passion" there. Likewise in the US, when a jealous husband kills his wife for having an affair, it is just a murder. Murder is murder. By putting "honour" in front of it doesn't make it honourable, or right.

[BillyBob]

Then why bother including the Old Testament in your Bible if you continually brush it aside as irrelevant?

History is never irrelevant. There is a lot to learn from the OT, but taft is correct, Mosaic law no longer applies. Certainly not to Christians.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by taft2012 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=642214#post642214)

The laws of Deuteronomy were negated by the New Covenant brought by Jesus Christ. And even so, Jews do not go about killing those who "worship other gods."
Then why bother including the Old Testament in your Bible if you continually brush it aside as irrelevant? his wife for having an affair, it is just a murder. Murder is murder. By putting "honour" in front of it doesn't make it honourable, or right.

No one brushed it aside as irrelevant but you, dumb ass.

Also, why do YOU brush aside parts of the Qur'aan as only being meant for that time and not for today, and not others? You pick and choose which parts of the Qur'aan to follow and which parts to ignore, putting yourself above Allah. Pathetic excuse for a Muslim.

[aboutime]

No one brushed it aside as irrelevant but you, dumb ass.

Also, why do YOU brush aside parts of the Qur'aan as only being meant for that time and not for today, and not others? You pick and choose which parts of the Qur'aan to follow and which parts to ignore, putting yourself above Allah. Pathetic excuse for a Muslim.


Marcus. Another of jafar's many forms of excuses. Nothing more, nothing less.