Statutory Rape Laws

[jimnyc]

We have the laws for a reason, and they've been around forever. The majority of the time people have no problem abiding by the laws and understanding them. But problems arise for example when you have someone say of legal age at 17 with a 16 year old, or whatever the age of consent is, and the boyfriend/girlfriend being not far off. If you ignore it when they are less than a year apart, then where does the limit start. If someone says there should be no problem for an 18 year old and a 17 being together - then what about 18 and 16? And if that shouldn't be statutory rape, then what if 18 and 15? It's got to start somewhere is my point. So my question, what if you have an 18 year old having a consensual relationship with say a 14 year old. I think that's like a 9th grader with someone who has already graduated HS. Now you're 4 years apart. Should the law be upheld?

[Noir]

An impossible question, life isn't black and white, nor so should be the law, midteens adds a greyness, and its unreasonable to expect any sort of binary answer.

[jimnyc]

An impossible question, life isn't black and white, nor so should be the law, midteens adds a greyness, and its unreasonable to expect any sort of binary answer.

But the law cannot be grey, either something is illegal, or it is not. Unless of course one advocates the courts deciding if something is illegal or not on a case by case basis. Like we discussed on another thread... Suppose someone is 10 hours shy of their 21st birthday, should they legally be able to buy alcohol? And if it's so close, then what about 2 days? 2 weeks?

My point is that at times people think the law shouldn't apply, and at others people want the maximum punishment and sex offender registration and such - like say if a 19 or 20 year old is with a 12 or 13 year old. It becomes apparent the younger the person is, and the bigger difference in age. But there HAS to be a law in there somewhere, and they surely can't leave it open ended and decide whether or not to apply the law each time it's violated.

I don't think it's impossible either. Where I grew up you didn't get your drivers license until you were 17, which means no driving until that time, not even when you are 16 and 364 days old. The law is the law. And when discussing laws, if they make one about statutory rape, rape, abuse or even drugs, it either applies or it doesn't.

Explain to me how there can be an open ended law? Or are you thinking that statutory rape laws shouldn't exist?

[Abbey Marie]

Tough question, especially with today's hyper-sexualized mores.

When I was 15, I had an 18 year old college student boyfriend. Thankfully, he was a great guy. :cool:
As a parent, I see how much of an inbalance in maturity and good judgment those two ages can be.

[Thunderknuckles]

Some states have "Romeo and Juliet" laws that make exceptions for teenagers. They have cutoff points though as well. It's hard to say what it should be but if I had to pick, I'd say 18-15 is legal but 18 with a 14 year old or under is bad.

[jimnyc]

Some states have "Romeo and Juliet" laws that make exceptions for teenagers. They have cutoff points though as well. It's hard to say what it should be but if I had to pick, I'd say 18-15 is legal but 18 with a 14 year old or under is bad.

What I was leading to is what I 'stole' from another board.

If you found out your 14 year old daughter was having sex with an 18yr old, most people would be pissed. I don't care what anyone says, at that age, that's a huge difference. One is now legally an adult and can certainly make better decisions. A 14 year old is barely in HS. Unless someone doesn't mind their 14yr old having sex already anyway.

But when it's an 18yr old and 14yr old, and they are lesbians? Then the parents approve of the relationship. Then people think "stop the hate" - as if it's a brand new concept and they are only punishing because they are lesbians. Yeah, dream on! The father calls it consensual, and between peers. Shit, when I was in HS, seniors and freshman were not "peers", it was 2 different worlds. I'm sorry, regardless of sexes, 18 year olds shouldn't be having sex with 14 year olds, the parent shouldn't be supporting 14 year olds having sex and they should stop claiming that it's "hate". The laws are there for a reason.


PALM BAY, Fla. -- A father says a case of love versus the law has left his daughter, a high school student, facing criminal charges that could land her in prison and require her to register as a sex offender.

Steven Hunt and tens of thousands of online supporters are asking prosecutors to drop the case against Hunt's daughter. Eighteen-year-old Kaitlyn Hunt was arrested in February related to what her father said was a consensual same-sex relationship with another student who was 14. A Facebook group created to support Kaitlyn asks people to write to their legislators to change laws to protect high school peers from prosecution in similar cases.

"Kaitlyn was a highly respected student at Florida's Sebastian River High School with good grades and participation in cheerleading, basketball and chorus," Hunt, of Palm Bay, wrote in the petition on Change.org. "She was even voted 'most school spirit.' Now she's been expelled from school and is facing serious felonies — all because she is in love."

Hunt wants prosecutors in Indian River County to drop the two charges filed against his daughter in February. A rainbow-colored "Stop the hate, free Kate" page on the online petition site Change.org had more than 56,500 supporters calling for prosecutors to drop the charges Monday afternoon, and a similar "Free Kate" Facebook group page had more than 21,000 members.

"The law is designed to protect our children, but the law does not serve its purpose when it is applied to consensual behavior between peers," a statement on the Facebook page reads.

The case started in February, but has since garnered national attention for what some media portray as a gay rights issue. In the online petition, Hunt claims his daughter's girlfriend's parents went to police because they blamed Kaitlyn for their child's homosexuality.

That doesn't change the case for the Indian River County Sheriff's Office.

"If this was an 18-year-old male and that was a 14-year-old girl, it would have been prosecuted the same way," Indian River County Sheriff Deryl Loar said during a Monday news conference.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/21/student-expelled-same-sex-relationship/2345157/

[gabosaurus]

Laws and ages vary by state, but the basics are generally the same. Here are the statutory rape laws for the state of California:

http://www.sexlaws.org/california_statutory_rape_laws

FAQ:

http://www.sexlaws.org/california_statutory_rape#Q3

[Thunderknuckles]

Well, you never mentioned anything about lesbians before! Of course that is treated differently!! If anyone has a problem with an 18 year old scissoring a 14 year old, well they are just homophobes!!

Seriously, and with respect to the case you posted, I believe the 18 year old should get some sort of punishment. Nothing too heavy though. I support the Romeo and Juliet laws, or in this case Juliet and Juliet. No way she should have to be charged with a felony and register as a sex offender However, she is stepping pretty close to it in my opinion.

[jimnyc]

Laws and ages vary by state, but the basics are generally the same. Here are the statutory rape laws for the state of California:

http://www.sexlaws.org/california_statutory_rape_laws

FAQ:

http://www.sexlaws.org/california_statutory_rape#Q3

Under California law, this would easily qualify as statutory rape. Do you think they should make exceptions for an 18yr old and 14yr old, regardless of lesbians or not? In this case, she is in violation of A and C.

Section 261.5.
(a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the perpetrator, if the person is a minor. For the purposes of this section, a "minor" is a person under the age of 18 years and an "adult" is a person who is at least 18 years of age.
(b) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is not more than three years older or three years younger than the perpetrator, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is more than three years younger than the perpetrator is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.
(d) Any person 21 years of age or older who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is under 16 years of age is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years.
(e) (1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an adult who engages in an act of sexual intercourse with a minor in violation of this section may be liable for civil penalties in the following amounts:
(A) An adult who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor less than two years younger than the adult is liable for a civil penalty not to exceed two thousand dollars ($2,000).
(B) An adult who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor at least two years younger than the adult is liable for a civil penalty not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000).
(C) An adult who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor at least three years younger than the adult is liable for a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(D) An adult over the age of 21 years who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor under 16 years of age is liable for a civil penalty not to exceed twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000).
(2) The district attorney may bring actions to recover civil penalties pursuant to this subdivision. From the amounts collected for each case, an amount equal to the costs of pursuing the action shall be deposited with the treasurer of the county in which the judgment was entered, and the remainder shall be deposited in the
Underage Pregnancy Prevention Fund, which is hereby created in the State Treasury. Amounts deposited in the Underage Pregnancy Prevention Fund may be used only for the purpose of preventing underage pregnancy upon appropriation by the Legislature.
(3) In addition to any punishment imposed under this section, the judge may assess a fine not to exceed seventy dollars ($70) against any person who violates this section with the proceeds of this fine to be used in accordance with Section 1463.23. The court shall, however, take into consideration the defendant's ability to pay, and no defendant shall be denied probation because of his or her inability to pay the fine permitted under this subdivision.

[jimnyc]

Well, you never mentioned anything about lesbians before! Of course that is treated differently!! If anyone has a problem with an 18 year old scissoring a 14 year old, well they are just homophobes!!

Seriously, and with respect to the case you posted, I believe the 18 year old should get some sort of punishment. Nothing too heavy though. I support the Romeo and Juliet laws, or in this case Juliet and Juliet. No way she should have to be charged with a felony and register as a sex offender However, she is stepping pretty close to it in my opinion.

:lol:

I can go with that. I don't think she should be a registered sex offender for 25 years or anything like that. But it's got to at least be a serious misdemeanor, fines and a record. While you don't want to ruin a life, you also don't want others to feel they can follow suit with impunity.

[Thunderknuckles]

She's guilty of item C under California law. I think they should just hit her with a misdemeanor. There is really no reason for Felony charges as I see it. It's really too harsh considering she missed the age cutoff by a year. C'mon, this isn't like a 40 year old banging a 14 year old...that's felony stuff.

[jimnyc]

She's guilty of item C under California law. I think they should just hit her with a misdemeanor. There is really no reason for Felony charges as I see it. It's really too harsh considering she missed the age cutoff by a year. C'mon, this isn't like a 40 year old banging a 14 year old...that's felony stuff.

Yep. My main issue is that her father, and so many others, feel she shouldn't be in any trouble at all. Regardless of the circumstances, she broke the law, that much is crystal clear, I think in ANY state, as I think 18 is legal age in every state and 14 is a minor in every state. Then the "hate" thing. That's bullshit, and also why I didn't mention the lesbian thing at first. The law is the law, and they're using the hate shit to garner sympathy.

[gabosaurus]

In most states, it is illegal for an 18 year to have sex with someone under the age of 18 unless there ages are within two years.

[Trigg]

There is a world of difference between an 18yr old and 14, no matter the sexual orientation involved. The maturity level just isn't the same.

I would be furious if my 14yr old was having sex in the first place, let alone with an adult, which is what an 18 yr old is.

When my now 20yr old turned 18, his gf was 16 we had the discussion about sex and her age. Indiana has Romeo and Juliet laws, but I still warned him about getting fully involved with the girl.

[jimnyc]

In most states, it is illegal for an 18 year to have sex with someone under the age of 18 unless there ages are within two years.

Incorrect. It would still be illegal, but the small difference in years makes it less of a penalty. I know of no state that would legally allow an adult to have sex with a minor.

[gabosaurus]

I deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis. Kids don't often want to listen, though.

[jimnyc]

I deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis. Kids don't often want to listen, though.

Of course not, they're kids. But parents should be educating them not only about sex, but also about the law - not encouraging either. "15 will get you 20" has been a phrase I knew of since I was like 12 myself! :laugh:

[Noir]

Explain to me how there can be an open ended law? Or are you thinking that statutory rape laws shouldn't exist?

Not so much open ended, as a pose to dynamic and bound by common sense.

[jimnyc]

Not so much open ended, as a pose to dynamic and bound by common sense.

Do you think ANY form of common sense would show an 18yr old having sex with a 14yr old as a good thing, or a legal thing?

[Thunderknuckles]

Yep. My main issue is that her father, and so many others, feel she shouldn't be in any trouble at all. Regardless of the circumstances, she broke the law, that much is crystal clear, I think in ANY state, as I think 18 is legal age in every state and 14 is a minor in every state. Then the "hate" thing. That's bullshit, and also why I didn't mention the lesbian thing at first. The law is the law, and they're using the hate shit to garner sympathy.
I agree with the "hate" argument. It's crap. However, I would like to comment on your statement that "The law is the law".
While technically true, all laws have two components: The letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
We agree that she broke the letter of the law but she's pushing it real close with the spirit of the law.
In any case, I think we all agree that a misdemeanor is in order here.

[Noir]

Do you think ANY form of common sense would show an 18yr old having sex with a 14yr old as a good thing, or a legal thing?

Well the age of consent in Spain is 14. So i guess its a legal thing depending on where you live.

[fj1200]

Kaitlyn was a highly respected student at Florida's Sebastian River High School with good grades and participation in cheerleading, basketball and chorus," Hunt, of Palm Bay, wrote in the petition on Change.org. "She was even voted 'most school spirit.' Now she's been expelled from school and is facing serious felonies — all because she is in love."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/21/student-expelled-same-sex-relationship/2345157/

I see he graduated from the DP school of debate; when things don't go your way change the terms. :rolleyes: Things didn't happen "because she's in love," things happened because she broke the law unless being in love entitles her to sex.

[jimnyc]

Well the age of consent in Spain is 14. So i guess its a legal thing depending on where you live.

Hmmmm.... That is true. I still think 14 and 18 - much too far apart, but it wouldn't matter in Spain if they are of age at 14. That's why it's so important to know the laws not only between countries when traveling, but even between states here in the US. If a Spanish guy visits the USA for the summer and starts taking the local 14yr olds to the local motel, explaining to the authorities what the law is in Spain won't help him much.

[Noir]

Hmmmm.... That is true. I still think 14 and 18 - much too far apart, but it wouldn't matter in Spain if they are of age at 14. That's why it's so important to know the laws not only between countries when traveling, but even between states here in the US. If a Spanish guy visits the USA for the summer and starts taking the local 14yr olds to the local motel, explaining to the authorities what the law is in Spain won't help him much.

And if you're on holiday in spain and your 14 year old daughter goes of with some spanish guy, the laws of the States won't help you much. Swings and roundabouts.

[cadet]

There is a world of difference between an 18yr old and 14, no matter the sexual orientation involved. The maturity level just isn't the same.

I would be furious if my 14yr old was having sex in the first place, let alone with an adult, which is what an 18 yr old is.

When my now 20yr old turned 18, his gf was 16 we had the discussion about sex and her age. Indiana has Romeo and Juliet laws, but I still warned him about getting fully involved with the girl.

I think I repressed that conversation.

[BillyBob]

But the law cannot be grey, either something is illegal, or it is not.

Laws concerning the murder of an unborn human baby are gray.

[BillyBob]

Statutory Rape laws should not apply if the female is older than the male. You can't rape the willing. Hell, that's not rape, that's like winning the lottery!