My son's diagnosis

[jimnyc]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?

I believe you posted about your son previously, and I had mentioned Asperger's. I know the signs well (bolded above), as my 12 year old has Asperger's. His old school for 4th grade in NJ actually paid for the evaluations, so we could get a diagnosis and have an IEP for 5th grade (when he came to live with me in PA).

If the school cannot or will not pay, check with your medical insurance to see if they might cover it at least in part. I promise you Jim, the IEP is the best thing for him if he truly has Asperger's. It will be with him throughout school, they are required by law to follow it, you get equal input as to it's contents, social skills classes in school, and if you're lucky enough to get staff even half as good as my son has had working with him, your son will indeed have a healthy, happy, productive and enjoyable life. The IEP my son has, and his (and my) involvement in Boy Scouts, has drastically improved his social skills in just a few years. If you can do it, get the evaluation.

[Thunderknuckles]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?
Jim you pushed a hot button issue for me and I'm going to tell you my experience.

It seems like all male students these days are diagnosed with some attention disorder. It seems like every other boy in my son's class is on some medication.
They told me my 8 year old has ADD or some shit like that. We had him tested, FOR FREE, and sure enough the psychologist said he should be put on medication.
I was heavily against it. I don't like how in today's society we casually introduce chemicals into kids that affects their brain chemistry just because they have a hard time keeping their ass in the chair. Back in my day, we called that being a boy!
Anyway, my wife insisted we try the medication. I relented. Sure enough, the medication smoothed my boy's ass out real good. Kinda like poppin' a Valium. My wife was pleased. I was pissed because I could clearly see that this was not his natural state. But hey, whatever keeps him quiet right?
Now, here's where the shit hits the fan. I'm picking my son up from his Karate class and he tells me on the way home that he is hearing a voice in his head that is telling him to hurt his younger sister. He says he tries to ignore but it is hard. I fucking flipped out!! Long story short, it turns out that this medication does indeed cause this effect in some cases. Funny how the doc never mentioned that shit before we put him on the meds! Needles to say, we stopped that medication and I made it real clear to my wife, the doc, and the school counselor that the only way my boy will be medicated is over my dead body!

Moral of the story:
Be real careful with people who tell you your son has an attention disorder. Even if they are professionals. Make sure son actually NEEDS help. Not just something to mellow his ass out. At best, any medication is going to change your son into a slightly different version of himself. At worst, you'll wake up with him hovering over you with a knife because the voice inside his head told him to take you out.

Sorry for all the swearing. I just get real pissed over this stuff.
I swear this is all some Amazonion conspiracy to reduce men to medicated zombie-slaves.

[Abbey Marie]

Jim, I think Thunderknuckles has a really good point. How is it that all of a sudden so many boys have these "syndromes"? I am not knowledgable on the subject, so I will just tell you that my (college senior) daughter and I happened to be talking about this very thing this morning. She told me that she sometimes feels like she is the only kid on campus not taking any kind of drug to "focus". So many kids are on these drugs (Adderall, Vivarin...), and many of them just sell them because they don't feel they need them.

I am sure that Kathianne can tell us how boys mature more slowly than girls, and sometimes they just aren't ready to sit still and learn for hours a day.

Side note: When I worked for the school district, I never heard of a parent paying for an IEP. Perhaps it was never discussed, but it seems so weird to me to hear that you have to pay for it. I'll bet if you get your doctor to write something saying your son needs special accomodation, it will be free.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jim, I think Thunderknuckles has a really good point. How is it that all of a sudden so many boys have these "syndromes"? I am not knowledgable on the subject, so I will just tell you that my (college senior) daughter and I happened to be talking about this very thing this morning. She told me that she sometimes feels like she is the only kid on campus not taking any kind of drug to "focus". So many kids are on these drugs (Adderall, Vivarin...), and many of them just sell them because they don't feel they need them.

I am sure that Kathianne can tell us how boys mature more slowly than girls, and sometimes they just aren't ready to sit still and learn for hours a day.

Side note: When I worked for the school district, I never heard of a parent paying for an IEP. Perhaps it was never discussed, but it seems so weird to me to hear that you have to pay for it. I'll bet if you get your doctor to write something saying your son needs special accomodation, it will be free.

I think he meant paying for the medical evaluation, which would then allow an IEP to be created. The IEP itself is not a cost item, according to the Americans with Disabilities act.

[jimnyc]

I figured I would get different views in here. Marcus, I have heard similar stories to what you wrote. I don't think having the IEP will hurt, and take it from there. And Abs and Thunder, I agree with you guys too, which is why I'm nervous about this whole thing. But if he does have it, he should get the help he needs. So that's why I think at least get the testing done. And as I said in the OP, he won't be going on any medication, and certainly not at this stage. Group discussions and or therapy, individualized help from others, learning classes (in or out of school). I don't mind things like that, and if it helps him better focus and get in gear, I'm all for it. But no, he won't be going on any attention meds.

As for paying, this is how she explained. She said you CAN get it done within the school system, but it's not quite as thorough as outside companies. She did say what the school offers as far as testing should be free, and that it's very possible that our insurance would cover an outside company.

It's the not knowing that bugs me. I have bipolar, or so I think, as there is no blood test, gene test, DNA test, nothing but the word of a doctor and me knowing the symptoms do in fact match. I wish there were absolutes with this and I could see proof. :(

[jimnyc]

I think he meant paying for the medical evaluation, which would then allow an IEP to be created. The IEP itself is not a cost item, according to the Americans with Disabilities act.

That's it! I think the testing was something about an intensive evaluation, and if it comes to it, he gets the IEP at school, which is the assistance I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Program

[Marcus Aurelius]

That's it! I think the testing was something about an intensive evaluation, and if it comes to it, he gets the IEP at school, which is the assistance I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Program

yup. That's what we had done back in NJ when he lived with his mom. I seem to remember the cost would have been something like $3,000 at the time, and the school paid as it was their suggestion. Different district probably have different policies.

As an aside, I am equally hesitant about meds for children, unless absolutely neccesary. Asperger's generally does not entail medications.

[Thunderknuckles]

I figured I would get different views in here. Marcus, I have heard similar stories to what you wrote. I don't think having the IEP will hurt, and take it from there. And Abs and Thunder, I agree with you guys too, which is why I'm nervous about this whole thing. But if he does have it, he should get the help he needs. So that's why I think at least get the testing done. And as I said in the OP, he won't be going on any medication, and certainly not at this stage. Group discussions and or therapy, individualized help from others, learning classes (in or out of school). I don't mind things like that, and if it helps him better focus and get in gear, I'm all for it. But no, he won't be going on any attention meds.

Sorry if I missed the the "no meds" part Jim. You are right to be nervous about this stuff but I think individualized help, group discussion, and therapy is a good alternative. As long as there are no meds involved. In any case, I'll bet that he comes back positive for something. They always do LOL.

[gabosaurus]

Jim, remember that bipolar is an inherited condition. I inherited it from my mom. Many other conditions are inherited as well.
I would go see a specialist and make them aware of all family conditions.

[jimnyc]

Jim, remember that bipolar is an inherited condition. I inherited it from my mom. Many other conditions are inherited as well.
I would go see a specialist and make them aware of all family conditions.

That's what I told her right off the bat, and she knew I had bipolar already. That's why I would like to get the testing done. An intensive process supposedly but hopefully we can get a more definitive answer.

[gabosaurus]

That's what I told her right off the bat, and she knew I had bipolar already. That's why I would like to get the testing done. An intensive process supposedly but hopefully we can get a more definitive answer.

Intensive is barely the word for it. For me, it was a couple of days. They have quite a few tests and you need to talk with a few people. There are a lot of very good meds out that can control bipolar and other manic afflictions. The key is taking the meds as prescribed.

[Kathianne]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. Don't go the psychologist route, they tend to just reinforce what the schools say.

IEP is actually, "Individual Educational Plan," the testing would be done by a school psychologist. Very likely they will 'find' he qualifies for an IEP. This would allow him extra time for testing, preferential seating, usually a special ed. co-teacher/aid in his classes.

I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.

Now a neurologist, especially a pediatric specialist is more likely to have some suggestions, especially if such a diagnosis is made. One, Jordan may be better off taking classes like Chinese, even math via computer. If indeed he's very bright or gifted, especially with Asperger's, classes are not likely to help much with social skills. Some martial arts, which I think he's already in? would be better choices. I'd also recommend something like cross country, where he's part of a 'team,' but the competition is himself against his past times.

What you might try about 'organizational skills,' Color code each subject: Red for Chinese ;) , Blue for math, Yellow for science, and so on. 2 pocket folders for each class-one side labeled, "Homework to hand in," other side, "Completed and graded papers." For each subject also get either same color coded spiral notebooks or subject dividers with same colors. Add loose leaf paper between each.

Get two Trapper Keepers. All folders, separators, spirals and MOST IMPORTANT student planner, (ask for a 2nd) go into each Trapper. Label each appropriately: AM Classes, PM Classes. AM being classes before lunch, PM after. Inside the cover attach the color coding system-kids with organization problems tend to need any reinforcements you can give them. Teach him to head papers and notes as follows, (you will want to have his counselor get teachers on board, shouldn't be an issue:

Name
Date
Subject
Period

Even if there is some 'misfiling,' it is much easier to get everything back to chronological order, imperative for test reviews, especially mid-terms and finals.

Tell him to highlight important information in one color, say yellow. When making corrections to homework or some other work, use a different pen than he normally writes with, say he writes notes in blue or black, he should use green or purple or red to make corrections. Based on the number of corrections, you'll see very quickly what areas need to be focused on. No sense in repeat studying of what is known, focus studying on what isn't known.

There's more, just let me know if you need it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. Don't go the psychologist route, they tend to just reinforce what the schools say.

IEP is actually, "Individual Educational Plan," the testing would be done by a school psychologist. Very likely they will 'find' he qualifies for an IEP. This would allow him extra time for testing, preferential seating, usually a special ed. co-teacher/aid in his classes.

I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.

Now a neurologist, especially a pediatric specialist is more likely to have some suggestions, especially if such a diagnosis is made. One, Jordan may be better off taking classes like Chinese, even math via computer. If indeed he's very bright or gifted, especially with Asperger's, classes are not likely to help much with social skills. Some martial arts, which I think he's already in? would be better choices. I'd also recommend something like cross country, where he's part of a 'team,' but the competition is himself against his past times.

What you might try about 'organizational skills,' Color code each subject: Red for Chinese ;) , Blue for math, Yellow for science, and so on. 2 pocket folders for each class-one side labeled, "Homework to hand in," other side, "Completed and graded papers." For each subject also get either same color coded spiral notebooks or subject dividers with same colors. Add loose leaf paper between each.

Get two Trapper Keepers. All folders, separators, spirals and MOST IMPORTANT student planner, (ask for a 2nd) go into each Trapper. Label each appropriately: AM Classes, PM Classes. AM being classes before lunch, PM after. Inside the cover attach the color coding system-kids with organization problems tend to need any reinforcements you can give them. Teach him to head papers and notes as follows, (you will want to have his counselor get teachers on board, shouldn't be an issue:

Name
Date
Subject
Period

Even if there is some 'misfiling,' it is much easier to get everything back to chronological order, imperative for test reviews, especially mid-terms and finals.

Tell him to highlight important information in one color, say yellow. When making corrections to homework or some other work, use a different pen than he normally writes with, say he writes notes in blue or black, he should use green or purple or red to make corrections. Based on the number of corrections, you'll see very quickly what areas need to be focused on. No sense in repeat studying of what is known, focus studying on what isn't known.

There's more, just let me know if you need it.

that's exactly the way I went with my son.

[jimnyc]

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. Don't go the psychologist route, they tend to just reinforce what the schools say.

IEP is actually, "Individual Educational Plan," the testing would be done by a school psychologist. Very likely they will 'find' he qualifies for an IEP. This would allow him extra time for testing, preferential seating, usually a special ed. co-teacher/aid in his classes.

I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.

Now a neurologist, especially a pediatric specialist is more likely to have some suggestions, especially if such a diagnosis is made. One, Jordan may be better off taking classes like Chinese, even math via computer. If indeed he's very bright or gifted, especially with Asperger's, classes are not likely to help much with social skills. Some martial arts, which I think he's already in? would be better choices. I'd also recommend something like cross country, where he's part of a 'team,' but the competition is himself against his past times.

What you might try about 'organizational skills,' Color code each subject: Red for Chinese ;) , Blue for math, Yellow for science, and so on. 2 pocket folders for each class-one side labeled, "Homework to hand in," other side, "Completed and graded papers." For each subject also get either same color coded spiral notebooks or subject dividers with same colors. Add loose leaf paper between each.

Get two Trapper Keepers. All folders, separators, spirals and MOST IMPORTANT student planner, (ask for a 2nd) go into each Trapper. Label each appropriately: AM Classes, PM Classes. AM being classes before lunch, PM after. Inside the cover attach the color coding system-kids with organization problems tend to need any reinforcements you can give them. Teach him to head papers and notes as follows, (you will want to have his counselor get teachers on board, shouldn't be an issue:

Name
Date
Subject
Period

Even if there is some 'misfiling,' it is much easier to get everything back to chronological order, imperative for test reviews, especially mid-terms and finals.

Tell him to highlight important information in one color, say yellow. When making corrections to homework or some other work, use a different pen than he normally writes with, say he writes notes in blue or black, he should use green or purple or red to make corrections. Based on the number of corrections, you'll see very quickly what areas need to be focused on. No sense in repeat studying of what is known, focus studying on what isn't known.

There's more, just let me know if you need it.

Excellent ideas, printed that out. :)

I would like for him to get any help that he can, but I would rather it not be labeled as you say. I think he would be concerned about other kids saying crap. I think he's going to need continual help in learning how to keep himself organized, as well as continual help with focusing issues. I like following the ideas like you put out there, and wait until we can get some testing and further feedback. I'd be curious if he went to 2 different places and see if they diagnose similarly.

I'm not downplaying what I don't know or understand, but thus far the definitive issues I see is his addiction to whatever he touches, whether that be the computer, laptop, Ipod, TV, or even reading a book. He wants to focus on ONE thing at a time. Let him do things 5 different times with instruction and separately, and he'll ace it, have him juggle and mingle, and he feels overwhelmed.

[Abbey Marie]

...
I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.
...


You said what I was thinking but didn't quite put into words...
:thumb:

[aboutime]

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. Don't go the psychologist route, they tend to just reinforce what the schools say.

IEP is actually, "Individual Educational Plan," the testing would be done by a school psychologist. Very likely they will 'find' he qualifies for an IEP. This would allow him extra time for testing, preferential seating, usually a special ed. co-teacher/aid in his classes.

I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.

Now a neurologist, especially a pediatric specialist is more likely to have some suggestions, especially if such a diagnosis is made. One, Jordan may be better off taking classes like Chinese, even math via computer. If indeed he's very bright or gifted, especially with Asperger's, classes are not likely to help much with social skills. Some martial arts, which I think he's already in? would be better choices. I'd also recommend something like cross country, where he's part of a 'team,' but the competition is himself against his past times.

What you might try about 'organizational skills,' Color code each subject: Red for Chinese ;) , Blue for math, Yellow for science, and so on. 2 pocket folders for each class-one side labeled, "Homework to hand in," other side, "Completed and graded papers." For each subject also get either same color coded spiral notebooks or subject dividers with same colors. Add loose leaf paper between each.

Get two Trapper Keepers. All folders, separators, spirals and MOST IMPORTANT student planner, (ask for a 2nd) go into each Trapper. Label each appropriately: AM Classes, PM Classes. AM being classes before lunch, PM after. Inside the cover attach the color coding system-kids with organization problems tend to need any reinforcements you can give them. Teach him to head papers and notes as follows, (you will want to have his counselor get teachers on board, shouldn't be an issue:

Name
Date
Subject
Period

Even if there is some 'misfiling,' it is much easier to get everything back to chronological order, imperative for test reviews, especially mid-terms and finals.

Tell him to highlight important information in one color, say yellow. When making corrections to homework or some other work, use a different pen than he normally writes with, say he writes notes in blue or black, he should use green or purple or red to make corrections. Based on the number of corrections, you'll see very quickly what areas need to be focused on. No sense in repeat studying of what is known, focus studying on what isn't known.

There's more, just let me know if you need it.


That is all great advice jim. Try to stay as far away as you can from the Unreliable attachments of Public schools with any medical, or mental decisions for your son's.
This really is a time to get A THIRD OPINION. And probably will be more dedicated to YOUR SON, than the appearances the school system hopes to protect.
I realize this may be speaking out of turn. But...YOUR SON MUST COME FIRST. Not the school.

[Kathianne]

Excellent ideas, printed that out. :)

I would like for him to get any help that he can, but I would rather it not be labeled as you say. I think he would be concerned about other kids saying crap. I think he's going to need continual help in learning how to keep himself organized, as well as continual help with focusing issues. I like following the ideas like you put out there, and wait until we can get some testing and further feedback. I'd be curious if he went to 2 different places and see if they diagnose similarly.

I'm not downplaying what I don't know or understand, but thus far the definitive issues I see is his addiction to whatever he touches, whether that be the computer, laptop, Ipod, TV, or even reading a book. He wants to focus on ONE thing at a time. Let him do things 5 different times with instruction and separately, and he'll ace it, have him juggle and mingle, and he feels overwhelmed.

One of the reasons to break down his day into AM and PM, with 2 assignment notebooks-unless he can use an electronic means to keep his assignments down. Everything is 'trapped' into the keeper. All folders, papers, paper supplies, pencils, pens, and assignment notebook. Ask him if he 'likes' lunch. Does he have friends he sits with daily? If so, skip the following, do NOT take away his 'social part' of the day: Many schools have a 'study lunch.' Time to eat and time to either study/do homework or get organized. Lots of super motivated and kids that want to avoid lunch in cafe choose this. It's usually silent or darn close to it. Social it is not. If your school does not have, you certainly can ask if this would be feasible to set up for next year, if there's interest? The school can email and find that out. Always come with a solution: does the school have the budget for that duty? If not, can you find volunteers that will enforce whatever rules there are. You might even ally with someone from special ed, as their kids often would like an alternative to cafe.

That's a bit of the reason for not going with an IEP, most definitely is special ed. Here's the problem I see: He is succeeding, but there's a consensus that he could be doing better. If he were failing, with reasonable effort, yeah I'd fight for an IEP. I'd call the pediatrician and ask him/her what they think of what the counselor told you. Then if it seems indicated, get the referral to neurologist or specialist he/she suggests. The surveys for home/school are quite extensive, it takes the teacher that knows him BEST at least a day or two to complete. Parents longer, for the simple reason you will find multiple answers, that you have to pick ONE. As you said above, it depends on what the kid is doing. Does he like it? Is he already comfortable with it? Are directions clear? (You'll know what I mean when you see the form.) All this is gathered and analyzed before any testing. If his 'best' teacher is out of the area for summer, you may not get this until fall. If that's the case, it will be Nov/Dec before you actually get testing done and results. If indeed it seems an IEP is indicated, probably won't be until the 2014/15 school year.

[jimnyc]

I just read this article about the symptoms of Asperger's, and I am placing the things in bold that were eye openers for me, things that remind me of Jordan.
-------
Although there are many possible symptoms of Asperger?s syndrome, the main symptom is significant trouble with social situations. Your child may have mild to severe symptoms or have a few or many of these symptoms. Because of the wide variety of symptoms, no two children with Asperger's are alike.

Symptoms during childhood

Parents often first notice the symptoms of Asperger's syndrome when their child starts preschool and begins to interact with other children. Children with Asperger's syndrome may:

Not pick up on social cues and may lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.
Dislike any changes in routines.
Appear to lack empathy.
Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others? speech. So your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. And his or her speech may be flat and hard to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.
Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the word "beckon" instead of "call" or the word "return" instead of "come back."
Avoid eye contact or stare at others.
Have unusual facial expressions or postures.
Be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many children with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or studying astronomy. They may show an unusual interest in certain topics such as snakes, names of stars, or dinosaurs.
Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized.
Have delayed motor development. Your child may be late in learning to use a fork or spoon, ride a bike, or catch a ball. He or she may have an awkward walk. Handwriting is often poor.
Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory processing disorder.

A child with one or two of these symptoms does not necessarily have Asperger?s syndrome. To be diagnosed with Asperger?s syndrome, a child must have a combination of these symptoms and significant trouble with social situations.

Although the condition is in some ways similar to autism, a child with Asperger's syndrome typically has normal language and intellectual development. Also, those with Asperger's syndrome typically make more of an effort than those with autism to make friends and engage in activities with others.

Symptoms during adolescent and teen years

Most symptoms persist through the teen years. And although teens with Asperger's can begin to learn those social skills they lack, communication often remains difficult. They will probably continue to have difficulty "reading" others' behavior.

Your teen with Asperger's syndrome (like other teens) will want friends but may feel shy or intimidated when approaching other teens. He or she may feel "different" from others. Although most teens place emphasis on being and looking "cool," teens with Asperger's may find it frustrating and emotionally draining to try to fit in. They may be immature for their age and be naive and too trusting, which can lead to teasing and bullying.

All of these difficulties can cause teens with Asperger's to become withdrawn and socially isolated and to have depression or anxiety.1

But some teens with Asperger's syndrome are able to make and keep a few close friends through the school years. Some of the classic Asperger's traits may also work to the benefit of your teen. Teens with Asperger's are typically uninterested in following social norms, fads, or conventional thinking, allowing creative thinking and the pursuit of original interests and goals. Their preference for rules and honesty may lead them to excel in the classroom and as citizens.

Symptoms in adulthood

Asperger's syndrome is a lifelong condition, although it tends to stabilize over time, and improvements are often seen. Adults usually have a better understanding of their own strengths and weaknesses. They are able to learn social skills, including how to read others' social cues. Many people with Asperger's syndrome marry and have children.

Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. But scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson.

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symptoms?page=2

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jim... another sign of Asperger's is that they tend to be able to have better conversations with adults, than with children their own age. My son had that sign back when this all first started for us.

[Abbey Marie]

Jim, I am strongly urging you to read this book before you make any decisions:


Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain


It's a lot more fun to read than it may sound, too.

[jimnyc]

Jim, I am strongly urging you to read this book before you make any decisions:


Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain


It's a lot more fun to read than it may sound, too.

$15.36 on Amazon. Will need the final OK from the President of the house... but very well may take your advice!

[Marcus Aurelius]

$15.36 on Amazon. Will need the final OK from the President of the house... but very well may take your advice!

You don't have enough votes to override a veto?:poke:

[Kathianne]

I just read this article about the symptoms of Asperger's, and I am placing the things in bold that were eye openers for me, things that remind me of Jordan.
-------
Although there are many possible symptoms of Asperger?s syndrome, the main symptom is significant trouble with social situations. Your child may have mild to severe symptoms or have a few or many of these symptoms. Because of the wide variety of symptoms, no two children with Asperger's are alike.

Symptoms during childhood

Parents often first notice the symptoms of Asperger's syndrome when their child starts preschool and begins to interact with other children. Children with Asperger's syndrome may:

Not pick up on social cues and may lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.
Dislike any changes in routines.
Appear to lack empathy.
Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others? speech. So your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. And his or her speech may be flat and hard to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.
Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the word "beckon" instead of "call" or the word "return" instead of "come back."
Avoid eye contact or stare at others.
Have unusual facial expressions or postures.
Be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many children with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or studying astronomy. They may show an unusual interest in certain topics such as snakes, names of stars, or dinosaurs.
Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized.
Have delayed motor development. Your child may be late in learning to use a fork or spoon, ride a bike, or catch a ball. He or she may have an awkward walk. Handwriting is often poor.
Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory processing disorder.

A child with one or two of these symptoms does not necessarily have Asperger?s syndrome. To be diagnosed with Asperger?s syndrome, a child must have a combination of these symptoms and significant trouble with social situations.

Although the condition is in some ways similar to autism, a child with Asperger's syndrome typically has normal language and intellectual development. Also, those with Asperger's syndrome typically make more of an effort than those with autism to make friends and engage in activities with others.

Symptoms during adolescent and teen years

Most symptoms persist through the teen years. And although teens with Asperger's can begin to learn those social skills they lack, communication often remains difficult. They will probably continue to have difficulty "reading" others' behavior.

Your teen with Asperger's syndrome (like other teens) will want friends but may feel shy or intimidated when approaching other teens. He or she may feel "different" from others. Although most teens place emphasis on being and looking "cool," teens with Asperger's may find it frustrating and emotionally draining to try to fit in. They may be immature for their age and be naive and too trusting, which can lead to teasing and bullying.

All of these difficulties can cause teens with Asperger's to become withdrawn and socially isolated and to have depression or anxiety.1

But some teens with Asperger's syndrome are able to make and keep a few close friends through the school years. Some of the classic Asperger's traits may also work to the benefit of your teen. Teens with Asperger's are typically uninterested in following social norms, fads, or conventional thinking, allowing creative thinking and the pursuit of original interests and goals. Their preference for rules and honesty may lead them to excel in the classroom and as citizens.

Symptoms in adulthood

Asperger's syndrome is a lifelong condition, although it tends to stabilize over time, and improvements are often seen. Adults usually have a better understanding of their own strengths and weaknesses. They are able to learn social skills, including how to read others' social cues. Many people with Asperger's syndrome marry and have children.

Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. But scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson.

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symptoms?page=2


First off, has he always had social issues? Second, always failed to read body language/make eye contact?

Other than the body language, all you've boded are signs also of extreme giftedness.

[revelarts]

Jim, all the best to you and your son. he sounds like a cool kid to me.

It must be real nice to be "normal" and be able to classify others behaviors as syndrones and such.
I swear when i read these psych profiles i always see myself or someone i know.

talks to much, talks to little, not enough empathy, too much empathy, not enough fears, to many fears,
jeez what did people do before psychiatrist? had a name for all this stuff,
I beckon you to think about it

[jimnyc]

You don't have enough votes to override a veto?:poke:

Not when it comes to money! She's the responsible one, I'm the one with holes burning in my pockets. She'll get it with her account, if in mine it will come in a box with cool new computer toys! :laugh:

[jimnyc]

First off, has he always had social issues? Second, always failed to read body language/make eye contact?

Other than the body language, all you've boded are signs also of extreme giftedness.

Sort of, yes. He went to the Montessori school system and had some difficulties with other kids from day one. When things are great, they're great, and he's loads of fun to be with, and even the leader at times. Otherwise, he either shies away, or gets nervous and talks in circles or about things you can clearly tell he is just making up in his head. Nothing delusional mind you, just funny crap.

We also try and place things on a calendar, and keep lists and times for everything, as he needs routine. But say he's allowed on the computer from 7pm-9pm, and then I tell him we are going out to dinner and won't be back till 7:30, but he can stay on the computer till 9:30 then, he still gets unusually upset at times. Things can be rather black and white for him and he doesn't like change very much.

As to the eye contact. Sometimes I'll bring him with me to the story so he can get a snack, and I'll be talking to my friend who is behind the counter. Jordan then walks around the 1 aisle they have there of snacks and just walks in circles around it, until I tell him to stop as it's making me dizzy! While doing this though, he is listening to our conversations (generally political or religious), and will even butt in here and there with his 2 cents! He's not up to speed, but he knows what he is talking about with the adults.

Reading others... He used to and still thinks that other kids are out to get him or they don't like him. Jordan is a good looking kid, smart, funny... Not just because he's my son, but I couldn't understand why he wouldn't be getting along with others - but I think it's his perception at times. He thinks kids messing with him and playing with him means that they don't like him, when sometimes they are just being boys and playing.

Then he'll pickup a book and read thousands of pages in less than a week. He had a reading marathon thingy not that long ago, and people had to donate based on how many pages he would read. A few family members and the woman's co-workers put in 5 cents per page, and in that time he read 1,374 pages! Sounds innocent until they all had to pony up $68, at least for a good cause.

He's been on a soccer team, baseball team, 2-3 years of karate - quit them all. I encourage, but don't push, and he chooses not to do them anymore. But he's going to 'Discovery Camp' this summer and will be building his own computer in one class, learning photography and photoshop in another & game programming in another. Hard to figure out the little egghead at times.

[jimnyc]

Jim, all the best to you and your son. he sounds like a cool kid to me.

It must be real nice to be "normal" and be able to classify others behaviors as syndrones and such.
I swear when i read these psych profiles i always see myself or someone i know.

talks to much, talks to little, not enough empathy, too much empathy, not enough fears, to many fears,
jeez what did people do before psychiatrist? had a name for all this stuff,
I beckon you to think about it

Thanks, Rev! I agree that there seems to be too much of it, things we never even heard of when we were kids. I won't go the medication route, but I'm more than willing to look into what all these people say,and if there's a way to help him, and it helps his schooling and social skills, then even if they are wrong with the diagnosis it will still be for the best.

[revelarts]

you might want to check out, if you haven't already,

Temple Gandine
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Autist

http://www.booktv.org/Watch/10695/In+Depth+Temple+Grandin.aspx

[Trinity]

Wow great advice and quite a large assortment to choose from, so I am going to throw my 2 cents in also... ;)


This is mostly in regards to my 14 year old son, soon to be 15 in September. And half way through typing I realized this is going to be loooong. ;)

But first let me share this particular incident at their Dr.'s office when my boy's were 3 and 5 years old. We went in for a regular yearly checkup for both boys my oldest was going to be starting kindergarten in a couple of months. The Dr. gave them their physicals and for those of you who have boys know how rambunctious they can get especially at that age and they are growing bored. Their Dr. suggested that I should have my boys tested. Because after spending a total of 5 minutes with them he came to the conclusion that they were most likely ADD or ADHD and should be put on medication before the begin school. Ok :rolleyes:

The funny thing about that statement, my oldest after entering the 1st grade with no issues at all in kindergarten was nicknamed Eeyore by his first grade teacher because the kid moved slow as molasses, I kid you not, but never had any issues completing any of his work he got good grades. This is the same kid who needs medication for ADD or ADHD according to the Dr. just a year and half prior.

Now on to my, as like to refer to him difficult child. Preschool day 1 you know the first day of school pic, before you put them on the bus, the happily little smiling faces so excited to go to school....yeah not happening here...if looks could kill I would have been dead and the trend continues to about 1st grade when I was informed that if continued taking first day of school pics of him he was going to rip them all up.

But let me jump back to the age of about 2 and this actually continued all the way up to about age 8 or 9. Change of seasons. I hated it. Because I knew it meant I had to persuade Jesse into wearing long pants or short pants as he called them. Depending on which season we were going into. That was not fun he would throw 15 different kinds of fits "NO I DON"T WANT LONG PANTS I WANT SHORT PANTS" me "but it's getting cold outside now and you need to wear long pants" Jesse "NO I don't want to" needless to say that made for some interesting moments when I was running late to be some where. Oh and that's another one change of any kind was not taken to easily EVER! I could plan and prepare him till I was blue in the face and nope it was always a battle. And god help you if his socks were not on his feet the right way if he felt one little seam or something weird he would literally wig out I am talking kick off his shoes and slam his foot on the ground. And if you rub his back or touch him lightly anywhere on his body even to this day he starts laughing and screaming your tickling me stop. :laugh: (super sensitive skin)


Ok fast forward to age 4, new Dr. diagnosed him as being ADHD ODD and a possible mood disorder....really at the age of 4....not buying it. Sorry. and no meds, sorry he's 4.


Now we move into elementary school. Jesse is very very intelligent and was probably bored (Hindsight is always 20/20). I had nothing but problems with all of his teachers, not because he couldn't do the work he did great on testing, he just didn't want to do the busy work. This began my pattern of yanking him out of school and enrolling him into a online school not once, not twice, but three times. starting in 3rd grade, then again in 5th grade, and once again in 6th grade.

I also took him to counseling when he was 9 (and actually tried him on adderall against my better judgement) he actually liked the counselor and would interact with her, he wouldn't talk to her much but he did interact in games that she came up with for all of us to play. But she ended up taking a new position elsewhere and recommended one of her co workers who was very highly recommended. We saw him 3 times Jesse never once spoke to him and the last visit we had with him I did all the talking...hmmmm. Time to rethink this counseling thing.


Which brings us to 7th grade Jesse was enrolled in online schooling for most of 6th grade up through a few months into 7th grade. He would not do most of the lessons that he was supposed to do each week, it got so bad I got on and entered the answers for him many times to keep him from being charged with truancy. Then I started really thinking and evaluating Jesse and how he is and how he learns and realized this is not homeschooling this is the public education system being shoved down his throat from the computer. Hence we are right back at the same situation I was trying to get him out of.

Time to research. I started researching homeschooling and what the difference was between homeschooling and online school. There is a huge difference, but then I also discovered unschooling and was like whoa... wait a minute... what the heck is this?! I discovered that unschooling is interest based learning which means dump all thoughts of what you know school to be, and let your child pursue their own interests. Instead of being force fed information they are only memorizing for a test anyway and they will soon forget, they are allowed to pursue what ever interests they may have. Sounds crazy I know, but let me tell you that since I notified the school board of my intent to home-school my children, yep I yanked my oldest out too, these boy's have learned so much more and pursued what was interesting to them and have far exceeded all of their peers. Jesse learned how to code plug ins for minecraft. And is currently working on setting up his own server and building his own PC from scratch those are not skills you learn in school. William is currently writing lyrics, producing, editing, recording videos.

Yeah I know what about socialization? and subjects? hmmmm well let's see Jesse has way more friends he socializes with online from many different countries then he ever had attending school. And William has face chat, facebook, and too many social networks to list and friends over to the house all the time, I literally always have a minimum of 5 to 6 teenagers at my house on any given day. As for subjects everything breaks down into subjects if that's what you need to make it sit right.


Bottom line is 7 hours a day being made to sit and memorize information that they will forget right after the test is a complete waste of time, when these kids could be pursuing their own interests. They are not made from cookie cutters and they do not all learn the same way.

My boy's are thriving now that I have removed them from the box.


oh and this just made the news 2 days ago..........unschooler who just sold his company for 1.1 billion dollars :thumb:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/technology/david-karp-quit-school-to-get-serious-about-start-ups.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

When David Karp was 14, he was clearly a bright teenager. Quiet, somewhat reclusive, bored with his classes at the Bronx High School of Science. He spent most of his free time in his bedroom, glued to his computer.

But instead of trying to pry him away from his machine or coaxing him outside to get some fresh air, his mother, Barbara Ackerman, had another solution: she suggested that he drop out of high school to be home-schooled.

“I saw him at school all day and absorbed all night into his computer,” said Ms. Ackerman, reached by phone Monday afternoon. “It became very clear that David needed the space to live his passion. Which was computers. All things computers.”






I warned you this was going to be long.:coffee:




and one more thing neither of my boy's are on any kind of medication, and I believe Jesse has aspergers. But unlike ADHD they can't medicate it soooo. But ever since I yanked him out of school and let him choose what he wants to pursue, the kid has not given me one bit of difficulty unlike his younger years when he was forced to attend school. And he has learned so much more.

[aboutime]

Wow great advice and quite a large assortment to choose from, so I am going to throw my 2 cents in also... ;)


This is mostly in regards to my 14 year old son, soon to be 15 in September. And half way through typing I realized this is going to be loooong. ;)

But first let me share this particular incident at their Dr.'s office when my boy's were 3 and 5 years old. We went in for a regular yearly checkup for both boys my oldest was going to be starting kindergarten in a couple of months. The Dr. gave them their physicals and for those of you who have boys know how rambunctious they can get especially at that age and they are growing bored. Their Dr. suggested that I should have my boys tested. Because after spending a total of 5 minutes with them he came to the conclusion that they were most likely ADD or ADHD and should be put on medication before the begin school. Ok :rolleyes:

The funny thing about that statement, my oldest after entering the 1st grade with no issues at all in kindergarten was nicknamed Eeyore by his first grade teacher because the kid moved slow as molasses, I kid you not, but never had any issues completing any of his work he got good grades. This is the same kid who needs medication for ADD or ADHD according to the Dr. just a year and half prior.

Now on to my, as like to refer to him difficult child. Preschool day 1 you know the first day of school pic, before you put them on the bus, the happily little smiling faces so excited to go to school....yeah not happening here...if looks could kill I would have been dead and the trend continues to about 1st grade when I was informed that if continued taking first day of school pics of him he was going to rip them all up.

But let me jump back to the age of about 2 and this actually continued all the way up to about age 8 or 9. Change of seasons. I hated it. Because I knew it meant I had to persuade Jesse into wearing long pants or short pants as he called them. Depending on which season we were going into. That was not fun he would throw 15 different kinds of fits "NO I DON"T WANT LONG PANTS I WANT SHORT PANTS" me "but it's getting cold outside now and you need to wear long pants" Jesse "NO I don't want to" needless to say that made for some interesting moments when I was running late to be some where. Oh and that's another one change of any kind was not taken to easily EVER! I could plan and prepare him till I was blue in the face and nope it was always a battle. And god help you if his socks were not on his feet the right way if he felt one little seam or something weird he would literally wig out I am talking kick off his shoes and slam his foot on the ground. And if you rub his back or touch him lightly anywhere on his body even to this day he starts laughing and screaming your tickling me stop. :laugh: (super sensitive skin)


Ok fast forward to age 4, new Dr. diagnosed him as being ADHD ODD and a possible mood disorder....really at the age of 4....not buying it. Sorry. and no meds, sorry he's 4.


Now we move into elementary school. Jesse is very very intelligent and was probably bored (Hindsight is always 20/20). I had nothing but problems with all of his teachers, not because he couldn't do the work he did great on testing, he just didn't want to do the busy work. This began my pattern of yanking him out of school and enrolling him into a online school not once, not twice, but three times. starting in 3rd grade, then again in 5th grade, and once again in 6th grade.

I also took him to counseling when he was 9 (and actually tried him on adderall against my better judgement) he actually liked the counselor and would interact with her, he wouldn't talk to her much but he did interact in games that she came up with for all of us to play. But she ended up taking a new position elsewhere and recommended one of her co workers who was very highly recommended. We saw him 3 times Jesse never once spoke to him and the last visit we had with him I did all the talking...hmmmm. Time to rethink this counseling thing.


Which brings us to 7th grade Jesse was enrolled in online schooling for most of 6th grade up through a few months into 7th grade. He would not do most of the lessons that he was supposed to do each week, it got so bad I got on and entered the answers for him many times to keep him from being charged with truancy. Then I started really thinking and evaluating Jesse and how he is and how he learns and realized this is not homeschooling this is the public education system being shoved down his throat from the computer. Hence we are right back at the same situation I was trying to get him out of.

Time to research. I started researching homeschooling and what the difference was between homeschooling and online school. There is a huge difference, but then I also discovered unschooling and was like whoa... wait a minute... what the heck is this?! I discovered that unschooling is interest based learning which means dump all thoughts of what you know school to be, and let your child pursue their own interests. Instead of being force fed information they are only memorizing for a test anyway and they will soon forget, they are allowed to pursue what ever interests they may have. Sounds crazy I know, but let me tell you that since I notified the school board of my intent to home-school my children, yep I yanked my oldest out too, these boy's have learned so much more and pursued what was interesting to them and have far exceeded all of their peers. Jesse learned how to code plug ins for minecraft. And is currently working on setting up his own server and building his own PC from scratch those are not skills you learn in school. William is currently writing lyrics, producing, editing, recording videos.

Yeah I know what about socialization? and subjects? hmmmm well let's see Jesse has way more friends he socializes with online from many different countries then he ever had attending school. And William has face chat, facebook, and too many social networks to list and friends over to the house all the time, I literally always have a minimum of 5 to 6 teenagers at my house on any given day. As for subjects everything breaks down into subjects if that's what you need to make it sit right.


Bottom line is 7 hours a day being made to sit and memorize information that they will forget right after the test is a complete waste of time, when these kids could be pursuing their own interests. They are not made from cookie cutters and they do not all learn the same way.

My boy's are thriving now that I have removed them from the box.


oh and this just made the news 2 days ago..........unschooler who just sold his company for 1.1 billion dollars :thumb:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/technology/david-karp-quit-school-to-get-serious-about-start-ups.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

When David Karp was 14, he was clearly a bright teenager. Quiet, somewhat reclusive, bored with his classes at the Bronx High School of Science. He spent most of his free time in his bedroom, glued to his computer.

But instead of trying to pry him away from his machine or coaxing him outside to get some fresh air, his mother, Barbara Ackerman, had another solution: she suggested that he drop out of high school to be home-schooled.

“I saw him at school all day and absorbed all night into his computer,” said Ms. Ackerman, reached by phone Monday afternoon. “It became very clear that David needed the space to live his passion. Which was computers. All things computers.”






I warned you this was going to be long.:coffee:


Trinity. Well said. Very human, and realistic from a parent.
Thankfully. You placed your son's welfare ahead of believing in what some professionals...who aren't always the sharpest, no matter how impressed they may sound with themselves.
Getting more than ONE opinion, and not falling for the typical, more often than not...wrong diagnosis is a credit to you in placing the welfare, and health of your OWN children ahead of everything else the SO-CALLED experts might say.
Great to see WHO was the smarter, Loving person.

[Abbey Marie]

$15.36 on Amazon. Will need the final OK from the President of the house... but very well may take your advice!

Give me your address in a PM- I'll send the $ to you! It's that important to me that you read it. Introverts are so misunderstood as kids, especially in the classroom, and the author does a fabulous job explaining it and backing it up with research.

[Abbey Marie]

Wow great advice and quite a large assortment to choose from, so I am going to throw my 2 cents in also... ;)


This is mostly in regards to my 14 year old son, soon to be 15 in September. And half way through typing I realized this is going to be loooong. ;)

But first let me share this particular incident at their Dr.'s office when my boy's were 3 and 5 years old. We went in for a regular yearly checkup for both boys my oldest was going to be starting kindergarten in a couple of months. The Dr. gave them their physicals and for those of you who have boys know how rambunctious they can get especially at that age and they are growing bored. Their Dr. suggested that I should have my boys tested. Because after spending a total of 5 minutes with them he came to the conclusion that they were most likely ADD or ADHD and should be put on medication before the begin school. Ok :rolleyes:

The funny thing about that statement, my oldest after entering the 1st grade with no issues at all in kindergarten was nicknamed Eeyore by his first grade teacher because the kid moved slow as molasses, I kid you not, but never had any issues completing any of his work he got good grades. This is the same kid who needs medication for ADD or ADHD according to the Dr. just a year and half prior.

Now on to my, as like to refer to him difficult child. Preschool day 1 you know the first day of school pic, before you put them on the bus, the happily little smiling faces so excited to go to school....yeah not happening here...if looks could kill I would have been dead and the trend continues to about 1st grade when I was informed that if continued taking first day of school pics of him he was going to rip them all up.

But let me jump back to the age of about 2 and this actually continued all the way up to about age 8 or 9. Change of seasons. I hated it. Because I knew it meant I had to persuade Jesse into wearing long pants or short pants as he called them. Depending on which season we were going into. That was not fun he would throw 15 different kinds of fits "NO I DON"T WANT LONG PANTS I WANT SHORT PANTS" me "but it's getting cold outside now and you need to wear long pants" Jesse "NO I don't want to" needless to say that made for some interesting moments when I was running late to be some where. Oh and that's another one change of any kind was not taken to easily EVER! I could plan and prepare him till I was blue in the face and nope it was always a battle. And god help you if his socks were not on his feet the right way if he felt one little seam or something weird he would literally wig out I am talking kick off his shoes and slam his foot on the ground. And if you rub his back or touch him lightly anywhere on his body even to this day he starts laughing and screaming your tickling me stop. :laugh: (super sensitive skin)


Ok fast forward to age 4, new Dr. diagnosed him as being ADHD ODD and a possible mood disorder....really at the age of 4....not buying it. Sorry. and no meds, sorry he's 4.


Now we move into elementary school. Jesse is very very intelligent and was probably bored (Hindsight is always 20/20). I had nothing but problems with all of his teachers, not because he couldn't do the work he did great on testing, he just didn't want to do the busy work. This began my pattern of yanking him out of school and enrolling him into a online school not once, not twice, but three times. starting in 3rd grade, then again in 5th grade, and once again in 6th grade.

I also took him to counseling when he was 9 (and actually tried him on adderall against my better judgement) he actually liked the counselor and would interact with her, he wouldn't talk to her much but he did interact in games that she came up with for all of us to play. But she ended up taking a new position elsewhere and recommended one of her co workers who was very highly recommended. We saw him 3 times Jesse never once spoke to him and the last visit we had with him I did all the talking...hmmmm. Time to rethink this counseling thing.


Which brings us to 7th grade Jesse was enrolled in online schooling for most of 6th grade up through a few months into 7th grade. He would not do most of the lessons that he was supposed to do each week, it got so bad I got on and entered the answers for him many times to keep him from being charged with truancy. Then I started really thinking and evaluating Jesse and how he is and how he learns and realized this is not homeschooling this is the public education system being shoved down his throat from the computer. Hence we are right back at the same situation I was trying to get him out of.

Time to research. I started researching homeschooling and what the difference was between homeschooling and online school. There is a huge difference, but then I also discovered unschooling and was like whoa... wait a minute... what the heck is this?! I discovered that unschooling is interest based learning which means dump all thoughts of what you know school to be, and let your child pursue their own interests. Instead of being force fed information they are only memorizing for a test anyway and they will soon forget, they are allowed to pursue what ever interests they may have. Sounds crazy I know, but let me tell you that since I notified the school board of my intent to home-school my children, yep I yanked my oldest out too, these boy's have learned so much more and pursued what was interesting to them and have far exceeded all of their peers. Jesse learned how to code plug ins for minecraft. And is currently working on setting up his own server and building his own PC from scratch those are not skills you learn in school. William is currently writing lyrics, producing, editing, recording videos.

Yeah I know what about socialization? and subjects? hmmmm well let's see Jesse has way more friends he socializes with online from many different countries then he ever had attending school. And William has face chat, facebook, and too many social networks to list and friends over to the house all the time, I literally always have a minimum of 5 to 6 teenagers at my house on any given day. As for subjects everything breaks down into subjects if that's what you need to make it sit right.


Bottom line is 7 hours a day being made to sit and memorize information that they will forget right after the test is a complete waste of time, when these kids could be pursuing their own interests. They are not made from cookie cutters and they do not all learn the same way.

My boy's are thriving now that I have removed them from the box.


oh and this just made the news 2 days ago..........unschooler who just sold his company for 1.1 billion dollars :thumb:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/technology/david-karp-quit-school-to-get-serious-about-start-ups.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

When David Karp was 14, he was clearly a bright teenager. Quiet, somewhat reclusive, bored with his classes at the Bronx High School of Science. He spent most of his free time in his bedroom, glued to his computer.

But instead of trying to pry him away from his machine or coaxing him outside to get some fresh air, his mother, Barbara Ackerman, had another solution: she suggested that he drop out of high school to be home-schooled.

“I saw him at school all day and absorbed all night into his computer,” said Ms. Ackerman, reached by phone Monday afternoon. “It became very clear that David needed the space to live his passion. Which was computers. All things computers.”






I warned you this was going to be long.:coffee:




and one more thing neither of my boy's are on any kind of medication, and I believe Jesse has aspergers. But unlike ADHD they can't medicate it soooo. But ever since I yanked him out of school and let him choose what he wants to pursue, the kid has not given me one bit of difficulty unlike his younger years when he was forced to attend school. And he has learned so much more.

Trinity, a lot of what you wrote describes Introversion. It has been made more difficult for such kids than ever now that so many schools insist on group (table) seating, group learning, and group projects. I think you might benefit from the book I am urging Jim to read above

[aboutime]

Trinity, a lot of what you wrote describes Introversion. It has been made more difficult for such kids than ever now that so many schools insist on group (table) seating, group learning, and group projects. I think you might benefit from the book I am urging Jim to read above



Abbey. Thanks, in behalf of Trinity. Though I haven't read that book. It does sound like it may just be the answer they are hoping to find. How kind of you to be such a GREAT AMERICAN.

[Kathianne]

Wow great advice and quite a large assortment to choose from, so I am going to throw my 2 cents in also... ;)


This is mostly in regards to my 14 year old son, soon to be 15 in September. And half way through typing I realized this is going to be loooong. ;)

But first let me share this particular incident at their Dr.'s office when my boy's were 3 and 5 years old. We went in for a regular yearly checkup for both boys my oldest was going to be starting kindergarten in a couple of months. The Dr. gave them their physicals and for those of you who have boys know how rambunctious they can get especially at that age and they are growing bored. Their Dr. suggested that I should have my boys tested. Because after spending a total of 5 minutes with them he came to the conclusion that they were most likely ADD or ADHD and should be put on medication before the begin school. Ok :rolleyes:

The funny thing about that statement, my oldest after entering the 1st grade with no issues at all in kindergarten was nicknamed Eeyore by his first grade teacher because the kid moved slow as molasses, I kid you not, but never had any issues completing any of his work he got good grades. This is the same kid who needs medication for ADD or ADHD according to the Dr. just a year and half prior.

Now on to my, as like to refer to him difficult child. Preschool day 1 you know the first day of school pic, before you put them on the bus, the happily little smiling faces so excited to go to school....yeah not happening here...if looks could kill I would have been dead and the trend continues to about 1st grade when I was informed that if continued taking first day of school pics of him he was going to rip them all up.

But let me jump back to the age of about 2 and this actually continued all the way up to about age 8 or 9. Change of seasons. I hated it. Because I knew it meant I had to persuade Jesse into wearing long pants or short pants as he called them. Depending on which season we were going into. That was not fun he would throw 15 different kinds of fits "NO I DON"T WANT LONG PANTS I WANT SHORT PANTS" me "but it's getting cold outside now and you need to wear long pants" Jesse "NO I don't want to" needless to say that made for some interesting moments when I was running late to be some where. Oh and that's another one change of any kind was not taken to easily EVER! I could plan and prepare him till I was blue in the face and nope it was always a battle. And god help you if his socks were not on his feet the right way if he felt one little seam or something weird he would literally wig out I am talking kick off his shoes and slam his foot on the ground. And if you rub his back or touch him lightly anywhere on his body even to this day he starts laughing and screaming your tickling me stop. :laugh: (super sensitive skin)


Ok fast forward to age 4, new Dr. diagnosed him as being ADHD ODD and a possible mood disorder....really at the age of 4....not buying it. Sorry. and no meds, sorry he's 4.


Now we move into elementary school. Jesse is very very intelligent and was probably bored (Hindsight is always 20/20). I had nothing but problems with all of his teachers, not because he couldn't do the work he did great on testing, he just didn't want to do the busy work. This began my pattern of yanking him out of school and enrolling him into a online school not once, not twice, but three times. starting in 3rd grade, then again in 5th grade, and once again in 6th grade.

I also took him to counseling when he was 9 (and actually tried him on adderall against my better judgement) he actually liked the counselor and would interact with her, he wouldn't talk to her much but he did interact in games that she came up with for all of us to play. But she ended up taking a new position elsewhere and recommended one of her co workers who was very highly recommended. We saw him 3 times Jesse never once spoke to him and the last visit we had with him I did all the talking...hmmmm. Time to rethink this counseling thing.


Which brings us to 7th grade Jesse was enrolled in online schooling for most of 6th grade up through a few months into 7th grade. He would not do most of the lessons that he was supposed to do each week, it got so bad I got on and entered the answers for him many times to keep him from being charged with truancy. Then I started really thinking and evaluating Jesse and how he is and how he learns and realized this is not homeschooling this is the public education system being shoved down his throat from the computer. Hence we are right back at the same situation I was trying to get him out of.

Time to research. I started researching homeschooling and what the difference was between homeschooling and online school. There is a huge difference, but then I also discovered unschooling and was like whoa... wait a minute... what the heck is this?! I discovered that unschooling is interest based learning which means dump all thoughts of what you know school to be, and let your child pursue their own interests. Instead of being force fed information they are only memorizing for a test anyway and they will soon forget, they are allowed to pursue what ever interests they may have. Sounds crazy I know, but let me tell you that since I notified the school board of my intent to home-school my children, yep I yanked my oldest out too, these boy's have learned so much more and pursued what was interesting to them and have far exceeded all of their peers. Jesse learned how to code plug ins for minecraft. And is currently working on setting up his own server and building his own PC from scratch those are not skills you learn in school. William is currently writing lyrics, producing, editing, recording videos.

Yeah I know what about socialization? and subjects? hmmmm well let's see Jesse has way more friends he socializes with online from many different countries then he ever had attending school. And William has face chat, facebook, and too many social networks to list and friends over to the house all the time, I literally always have a minimum of 5 to 6 teenagers at my house on any given day. As for subjects everything breaks down into subjects if that's what you need to make it sit right.


Bottom line is 7 hours a day being made to sit and memorize information that they will forget right after the test is a complete waste of time, when these kids could be pursuing their own interests. They are not made from cookie cutters and they do not all learn the same way.

My boy's are thriving now that I have removed them from the box.


oh and this just made the news 2 days ago..........unschooler who just sold his company for 1.1 billion dollars :thumb:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/technology/david-karp-quit-school-to-get-serious-about-start-ups.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

When David Karp was 14, he was clearly a bright teenager. Quiet, somewhat reclusive, bored with his classes at the Bronx High School of Science. He spent most of his free time in his bedroom, glued to his computer.

But instead of trying to pry him away from his machine or coaxing him outside to get some fresh air, his mother, Barbara Ackerman, had another solution: she suggested that he drop out of high school to be home-schooled.

“I saw him at school all day and absorbed all night into his computer,” said Ms. Ackerman, reached by phone Monday afternoon. “It became very clear that David needed the space to live his passion. Which was computers. All things computers.”






I warned you this was going to be long.:coffee:




and one more thing neither of my boy's are on any kind of medication, and I believe Jesse has aspergers. But unlike ADHD they can't medicate it soooo. But ever since I yanked him out of school and let him choose what he wants to pursue, the kid has not given me one bit of difficulty unlike his younger years when he was forced to attend school. And he has learned so much more.

Trigg, I am thanking this post because I do believe there are times for parents to go the 'unconventional route.' Unschooling most definitely fits, it's a step beyond homeschooling, as the curriculum mandated by state is basically tossed. There may be reasons to go for this, either true beliefs or just enough walls hit to say, "It's my last resort." I can't fault anyone for either reason, but there are risks.

One the state could come down on you. If for 2nd reason, might have a case and get a good judge to agree. In your case, the kids were and are performing above avg from what I recall.

2nd, there is a huge likelihood that the child has areas they hate and will never get around to. For some it may be all things physical. For another may be certain academic areas.

Personally I like the homeschooling models that include all state standards and go beyond, accelerate. This is accomplished in most homeschool situations in less that 3 hours per day. Areas the parents feel uncomfortable such as addressing math beyond 6th grade or high school physics can be bridged with online lessons or outside resources found at community colleges or Sylvan type tutors. The remainder time can and should be used to delve into areas of natural interest to the child. Unschooling as it is, actually is an offshoot of the homeschooling movement, again my concern would be holes in the general knowledge that is assumed part of someone finishing high school.

[Kathianne]

Trinity, a lot of what you wrote describes Introversion. It has been made more difficult for such kids than ever now that so many schools insist on group (table) seating, group learning, and group projects. I think you might benefit from the book I am urging Jim to read above

On this we agree. While I may well be an introvert, I do know how to collaborate with colleagues. At the same time, I hate group work when I'm involved for evaluation. I want to do my own work and want others to do theirs. For that very reason, recognizing that state standards and objectives actually require students to work in groups, I always have made rubrics for teacher evaluation of group. Teacher evaluation of individuals based upon group and individual rubrics. Group evaluation rubrics. Member evaluation rubrics. I average all, depending on the assignment and how the class did, often weighting some rubrics over others.

The problem with groups:

1. Allow students to pick: majority will pick friends, some kids left out for either low performance or just ostracized.
2. Teacher pick: Mix of groups, usually 1 'very bright' member to do most of the work, hopefully less motivated or
able students will see what the bright kid is doing. Not fair to any in the group.
3. Draw straws, (Popsicle sticks) for groups: Inevitably there will be one very strong team and one incapable team.
Most will be mediocre.

[Trinity]

I do have one thing to add....not knocking all teachers in my post, so I hope that is not how it came across. There are some really good teachers out there and I believe Kathianne is one of them based on the info she has shared with me. However these teachers are stuck with teaching what the school boards throw down at them and they don't really have a say so in how they teach a subject anymore. Unlike when I went to school the teachers at that time were allowed a lot more freedom and creativity, now days not so much. It's not the teachers that I blame its the politics....go figure.

[Trinity]

Personally I like the homeschooling models that include all state standards and go beyond, accelerate. This is accomplished in most homeschool situations in less that 3 hours per day. Areas the parents feel uncomfortable such as addressing math beyond 6th grade or high school physics can be bridged with online lessons or outside resources found at community colleges or Sylvan type tutors.


And this is why I like Kathianne so much she is a teacher and gets it. For example now keep in mind I am not religious in any way shape or form but my 17 year old..... one day decides to bring up evolution versus creationism and of course my 14 year old jumps in on this one. We ended up having a discussion on these two topics doing research on multiple websites and covered everything from the bible to cavemen to Christopher Columbus, to the voyage to America to the native american Indians....needless to say we covered a lot of material in a 2 hour time frame that they were interested an engaged in. They actually started pulling up info on their own...lol

Just by engaging them when they came to me questioning something they learned more in those 2 hours then they would have learned in 2 months in school.

[Trinity]

Trinity, a lot of what you wrote describes Introversion. It has been made more difficult for such kids than ever now that so many schools insist on group (table) seating, group learning, and group projects. I think you might benefit from the book I am urging Jim to read above


There is no doubt in my mind that my youngest is an introvert....I am also an introvert it just took me until my adult life here most recently in the past few years to realize this. :cool:

[Kathianne]

I do have one thing to add....not knocking all teachers in my post, so I hope that is not how it came across. There are some really good teachers out there and I believe Kathianne is one of them based on the info she has shared with me. However these teachers are stuck with teaching what the school boards throw down at them and they don't really have a say so in how they teach a subject anymore. Unlike when I went to school the teachers at that time were allowed a lot more freedom and creativity, now days not so much. It's not the teachers that I blame its the politics....go figure.

Thanks Trinity. It's been that way for at least the past 20 years. It's not just the school boards either, it's the federal government and it's getting worse with CORE and STEM. Both of these have good intentions and bad science. Sort of like 'global cooling,' 'global warming.' climate change.

About 20 years ago it became the norm to get rid of tracking. Well except special ed classes and gifted classes, which actually fall within special ed area. They not only eliminated ability grouping, but added inclusion of 'able' special ed students in all classes. Oh yes, included a 'co-teacher' or an aid from special ed, to 'assist' the inclusion kids. (Just think of the 'costs.' Two teachers in same class, each making over $50k per year). Some of the special ed kids thrived, especially those with only mild learning disabilities. Others? Well if the class pace was too fast, the co-teacher would stop the subject area teacher to allow 're-teaching.' The classes became geared to the lowest in class. The 'average kids' were bored and there no longer were 'superior students' to challenge, (they were in gifted classes.)

Then came the trend in middle schools to make 'all classes' have the same pages required to be covered within the same time frame. What that meant is that teachers in public middle schools had a 'plan' period and 'team plan' period, every day. For a few years teachers met in each school and came up with cross curricular lesson plans, that all teachers would use for average kids. And inclusion kids from special ed. The 'gifted' would have their own teachers making their own lesson plans. Today? Both periods are mostly 'personal plan' times, the 'team time' is most often not meeting, as the lesson plans were written years ago and just repeated. Since everyone must be on the same page at the same time, teachers really can't deviate.

The high schools are becoming the same, without any farce of 'teams.' Lessons come from the departments and so it is. Who teaches 'gifted' or 'honors' or 'AP'? Mostly department chairs and higher seniority staff within each department. They make their own lesson plans and their 'kids' do very well on standardized tests.

[Kathianne]

And this is why I like Kathianne so much she is a teacher and gets it. For example now keep in mind I am not religious in any way shape or form but my 17 year old..... one day decides to bring up evolution versus creationism and of course my 14 year old jumps in on this one. We ended up having a discussion on these two topics doing research on multiple websites and covered everything from the bible to cavemen to Christopher Columbus, to the voyage to America to the native american Indians....needless to say we covered a lot of material in a 2 hour time frame that they were interested an engaged in. They actually started pulling up info on their own...lol

Just by engaging them when they came to me questioning something they learned more in those 2 hours then they would have learned in 2 months in school.

You know you've crossed into 'great teaching' when you are learning from your students. Really, that is what it's all about. You give them the tools and spark, then learn right alongside them.

[Robert A Whit]

Jim, remember that bipolar is an inherited condition. I inherited it from my mom. Many other conditions are inherited as well.
I would go see a specialist and make them aware of all family conditions.

I was not sure before, but I have wondered why some with bipolar are behind posts going to the cage. I did not comprehend how this took place. I will now try to be much more tolerant when that happens or when some chew on me over posts that in no way do I intend to be a problem. Please do not tell me this is to be a new thread since it is simply a reflection on the condition talked about right here, right now aka bipolar. It is on topic. As to children having problems, it seems to me that when i grew up, I can't recall this from the kids of those days at all. But then kids were just kids in those days.

[jimnyc]

I was not sure before, but I have wondered why some with bipolar are behind posts going to the cage.

Your posts end up in the cage as you're an old arrogant asshole. You will stop discussing staff decisions, this is your last warning, which makes about 80x I have had to tell you this. If you want to try and push my buttons with the bipolar stuff, you will lose. I suggest you stop right now. If you think you will come into a thread about my son and look for trouble, you WILL find it. Go ahead, try me.

[Kathianne]

Your posts end up in the cage as you're an old arrogant asshole. You will stop discussing staff decisions, this is your last warning, which makes about 80x I have had to tell you this. If you want to try and push my buttons with the bipolar stuff, you will lose. I suggest you stop right now. If you think you will come into a thread about my son and look for trouble, you WILL find it. Go ahead, try me.

I agree. IMO he should be off this thread, he's nothing to bring.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I was not sure before, but I have wondered why some with bipolar are behind posts going to the cage. I did not comprehend how this took place. I will now try to be much more tolerant when that happens or when some chew on me over posts that in no way do I intend to be a problem. Please do not tell me this is to be a new thread since it is simply a reflection on the condition talked about right here, right now aka bipolar. It is on topic. As to children having problems, it seems to me that when i grew up, I can't recall this from the kids of those days at all. But then kids were just kids in those days.

you are extremely lucky this is not MY site, or that would absolutely have banned you for life. Commenting on the medical condition of a poster, and admin, and site owner, in a negative manner? regardless of the fact he mentioned it, it should NOT be the subject of such posting... ever.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jim... here's another book I found extremely helpful. It was a great deal of help to me when I really knew little about Asperger Syndrome, or how to deal with a child who had it.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/parenting-a-child-with-asperger-syndrome-brenda-boyd/1005851409?ean=9781843101376

For parents of children with Asperger Syndrome ordinary parenting just doesn't always do it -- AS kids need a different approach. Brenda is mother to thirteen-year-old Kenneth, author of Asperger Syndrome, the Universe and Everything, and since his diagnosis at the age of eight she has gathered together the parenting ideas and tips that have had a positive effect on Kenneth's life. Brenda discusses parents' reaction to their child's AS and gives advice on how better to understand 'Planet Asperger'. This book helps parents to respond positively to the challenge of AS and find the 'treasure' in their child's way of being.

Brenda is mother to thirteen-year-old Kenneth, who himself is the author of Asperger Syndrome, the Universe and Everything... a book about what it's like to actually have Asperger Syndrome.

I'd be happy to send you my copy snail mail, if you're interested. It would give me the chance to 'pay it forward', as it were.

[jimnyc]

you are extremely lucky this is not MY site, or that would absolutely have banned you for life. Commenting on the medical condition of a poster, and admin, and site owner, in a negative manner? regardless of the fact he mentioned it, it should NOT be the subject of such posting... ever.

I like to be honest about it and I'm not embarrassed about the bipolar. I know so many people here for so long and I guess I just have a level of comfort sharing. It doesn't bother me when someone pulls shit like that, but it sure gives the entire community a glimpse into the person who uses it in the manner he did. Some do more damage to their own reputations when the truth comes out about what type of person they are. Makes ya wonder, about others who share things, on what else might be said to those who are kind enough to share. Or maybe some are afraid to share as some asshole may bring it up in a negative manner back at them?

[Kathianne]

Trigg, I am thanking this post because I do believe there are times for parents to go the 'unconventional route.' Unschooling most definitely fits, it's a step beyond homeschooling, as the curriculum mandated by state is basically tossed. There may be reasons to go for this, either true beliefs or just enough walls hit to say, "It's my last resort." I can't fault anyone for either reason, but there are risks.

One the state could come down on you. If for 2nd reason, might have a case and get a good judge to agree. In your case, the kids were and are performing above avg from what I recall.

2nd, there is a huge likelihood that the child has areas they hate and will never get around to. For some it may be all things physical. For another may be certain academic areas.

Personally I like the homeschooling models that include all state standards and go beyond, accelerate. This is accomplished in most homeschool situations in less that 3 hours per day. Areas the parents feel uncomfortable such as addressing math beyond 6th grade or high school physics can be bridged with online lessons or outside resources found at community colleges or Sylvan type tutors. The remainder time can and should be used to delve into areas of natural interest to the child. Unschooling as it is, actually is an offshoot of the homeschooling movement, again my concern would be holes in the general knowledge that is assumed part of someone finishing high school.

This should have been addressed to Trinity. No excuses. The fact that I mix them in my mind, due to both starting with "T" is my fault. I do the same with Kitten and someone, though Kitten has been gone awhile. Something is wrong with my brain in wiring with some names.

I apologize to both Trinity and Trigg.

[Robert A Whit]

I agree. IMO he should be off this thread, he's nothing to bring.

no comment.

[Kathianne]

I am not bipolar.

Are you?

Again, it's unfortunate the above poster is allowed to continue in this thread, IMO.

[jimnyc]

no comment.


Again, it's unfortunate the above poster is allowed to continue in this thread, IMO.

He's out now. Again he tried to talk his smack and then edit, but your post caught it first. His desire to use an 'ailment' as a tool to start shit shows that he is more of an asshole than I originally thought.

[aboutime]

This reminds me of that old saying: "Give them an inch, and they take a Mile."

It's not like nobody was told about this stuff before.

Disgusting, and Sick.

[Trinity]

This should have been addressed to Trinity. No excuses. The fact that I mix them in my mind, due to both starting with "T" is my fault. I do the same with Kitten and someone, though Kitten has been gone awhile. Something is wrong with my brain in wiring with some names.

I apologize to both Trinity and Trigg.


No apology needed I knew who you meant and I am not offended.... and I like Trigg :thumb:

[Jeff]

Jim just my 2 cents and that is all its worth I am sure but the schools are getting filled with kids that are getting baby sat by a bottle of pills , not getting to see Jordan as much as I would like ( honestly he wouldn't even know me if you didn't tell him who I was when we do get together ) I find him to be a very Bright NORMAL young man , he gets along with his cousins great and he also is a very polite young man , as I said it is just my two cents but I see more and more kids eating pills and going to Docs that are perfectly normal but the school thinks they talk too much or have some other so called problem and in many instances it is lack of parenting ( which I know isn't the deal with Jordan ) and more than that it is a convenient excuse for some teachers . I do believe yall should have him tested due to hereditary things but he sounds normal to me and every time I am around him he makes me very proud to call him my nephew , I wish yall the best luck with this and if ya ever need to just BS you have my number

[jimnyc]

I found a few older threads upon searching but don't want to put a others on the spot. I'm not 100% sure everyone is aware what "bipolar" specifically is. And even then, there are various components and types. It would be rather ignorant for someone to label another in a certain manner, unless you know that person intimately or you are their doctor. I could fall back to an older thread if anyone thinks I am derailing, but my thought process emanated from this thread.

Anyone else have bipolar and feel like sharing? Share the difference between Bipolar I and bipolar II? Explain to the assholes out there that this isn't a disorder that makes someone "nuts", and certainly isn't a disorder that propels someone to move posts to the cage unfairly. :)

Probably one of the worst symptoms would be allowing an ignorant person to get under my skin, allowing them to piss me off enough to further update this thread. Then again, maybe any other reasonable person would be upset when someone makes light of an ailment of sorts, and continues it via PM as well. Being sent definitions and literature is also ignorant, especially when done in a manner that the sender thinks they are making fun of me.

No matter what the reason, is there ANY ailment, disorder, disease, sickness.... or anything similar - is there ANY reason that anyone can see, where it might be acceptable to turn around when that person shares, and make light of it, and perhaps send them messages further making light of it and making fun of said person?

With that said, I obviously don't mind sharing, or I wouldn't! But me not minding, not giving a fuck - doesn't mean I will happily allow someone to make light of it. Just like I know my son is above average in intelligence. I'm not against sharing the things I did, and showing the efforts I am making to stay on top of things with him. But if someone were to take what I write, and make a joke about it or my son - I might get a tad angry.

[tailfins]

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. ......

There's another reason to do that. If by some chance you get on Child Protective Service's radar screen all results from those kinds of things can be used against you. I do LOTS of web searches. Do one on "Child Services Misconduct". I choose those words because different states have a different name for that department but most have the words "Child" and "Services".

Here's one example:
http://kidjacked.com/


Paranoia, Immunity, Secrecy & Guilt This is a true and documented case, which was fought in the courts at great expense to the innocent parents. What is more shocking is it is not an isolated case. Many such cases of CPS extremes are brought to light on a regular basis and are receiving more and more attention in the courts and on the news nationwide. The slant taken by the media is often against the parents, however. Some parents are abusive but many charged are not and should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Click here (http://kidjacked.com/up/) and judge for yourselves if these particular parents seem like the monsters the childsavers of Whitman County have set out to make them appear. They, like their counterparts in other states and counties, have preconceived notions that all parents are 'guilty' until proven 'innocent' just the opposite of what we are guaranteed in the US Constitution. Child Protective Services all across the United States have been given absolute power and Whitman County, Washington, is no different.
The extremes to which CPS social workers go is abusive to families and rips at, tearing apart the very foundation of this great country (the family). The social workers are virtually immune to being forced to take responsibility for their actions. You can not sue them in many cases. They hide behind their cloak of invincibility garnering more and more power. They have created a system of paranoia within the schools, the professional world and general citizenship, telling professionals and school workers they must report any sign of child abuse, no matter how small. And, they are told, if these people do not report what may or may not be abuse they can lose their jobs and be prosecuted.
One local school worker said, "I report everything! That's what we are told to do. Then it is out of my hands and I don't have to worry about losing my job."
CPS is so busy chasing the paranoia of this system they have created, looking into and investigating every referral they receive from frightened teachers and counselors they have no time to work on cases that are major and truly need their attention.
Money is a driving force behind CPS as it is in any business. CPS receives most of their funding from removing children from homes. Each time a child is removed from his/her home the department is given thousands of federal dollars, which is used to further the department's efforts and programs.

[Trinity]

I found a few older threads upon searching but don't want to put a others on the spot. I'm not 100% sure everyone is aware what "bipolar" specifically is. And even then, there are various components and types. It would be rather ignorant for someone to label another in a certain manner, unless you know that person intimately or you are their doctor. I could fall back to an older thread if anyone thinks I am derailing, but my thought process emanated from this thread.

Anyone else have bipolar and feel like sharing? Share the difference between Bipolar I and bipolar II? Explain to the assholes out there that this isn't a disorder that makes someone "nuts", and certainly isn't a disorder that propels someone to move posts to the cage unfairly. :)

Probably one of the worst symptoms would be allowing an ignorant person to get under my skin, allowing them to piss me off enough to further update this thread. Then again, maybe any other reasonable person would be upset when someone makes light of an ailment of sorts, and continues it via PM as well. Being sent definitions and literature is also ignorant, especially when done in a manner that the sender thinks they are making fun of me.

No matter what the reason, is there ANY ailment, disorder, disease, sickness.... or anything similar - is there ANY reason that anyone can see, where it might be acceptable to turn around when that person shares, and make light of it, and perhaps send them messages further making light of it and making fun of said person?

With that said, I obviously don't mind sharing, or I wouldn't! But me not minding, not giving a fuck - doesn't mean I will happily allow someone to make light of it. Just like I know my son is above average in intelligence. I'm not against sharing the things I did, and showing the efforts I am making to stay on top of things with him. But if someone were to take what I write, and make a joke about it or my son - I might get a tad angry.



Here Jim maybe this will help explain the difference....it is not only just reading but visuals as well.

http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/ss/slideshow-bipolar-disorder-overview

[WiccanLiberal]

I work with a guy with Asperger's. Both of his kids are also diagnosed with the same condition. Try not to worry too much about the diagnosis. Both his kids are doing fine. One is a 2 career genius. She works at the Field museum and is also an attorney. Is your kid fascinated by dinosaurs? Both of my friend's kids were self-educated in paleontology and both have made careers in it. And the social stuff is not always a problem. I guarantee your son may not make huge numbers of casual friends but he will have a close circle of people who regard him highly.

[tailfins]

I work with a guy with Asperger's. Both of his kids are also diagnosed with the same condition. Try not to worry too much about the diagnosis. Both his kids are doing fine. One is a 2 career genius. She works at the Field museum and is also an attorney. Is your kid fascinated by dinosaurs? Both of my friend's kids were self-educated in paleontology and both have made careers in it. And the social stuff is not always a problem. I guarantee your son may not make huge numbers of casual friends but he will have a close circle of people who regard him highly.

I'm glad I didn't get diagnosed until later in life. A kid doesn't really know how to respond to "help" from "professionals". I have seen too many people quit and go in SSDI because "help" given to Aspies is debilitating. Society doesn't help us. A diagnosis is good for one thing: Keeping on file in HR and using as a weapon when company politics takes place. American females are very very unforgiving of Aspies. I want him to be sensitive and "all about me" doesn't match up with social "blindness". I wonder if this fascination with dinosaurs is why there's so mush Atheism in the Aspie community. Thankfully my fascination was with engines. Does anybody remember the Visible V-8 and the Visible Wankel Rotary engine?

http://www.one-leggedsandpiper.com/Christmas/Presents/VisibleV8.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/MINT-RENWAL-VISIBLE-WANKEL-ROTARY-ENGINE-MODEL-ASSEMBLED-AND-WORKING-/00/s/OTI0WDExMTY=/$(KGrHqJHJBIE9tKsvLMYBPm!5RcQyw~~60_35.JPG

[revelarts]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/d7lQa3q_OAk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[aboutime]

I'm glad I didn't get diagnosed until later in life. A kid doesn't really know how to respond to "help" from "professionals". I have seen too many people quit and go in SSDI because "help" given to Aspies is debilitating. Society doesn't help us. A diagnosis is good for one thing: Keeping on file in HR and using as a weapon when company politics takes place. American females are very very unforgiving of Aspies. I want him to be sensitive and "all about me" doesn't match up with social "blindness". I wonder if this fascination with dinosaurs is why there's so mush Atheism in the Aspie community. Thankfully my fascination was with engines. Does anybody remember the Visible V-8 and the Visible Wankel Rotary engine?

http://www.one-leggedsandpiper.com/Christmas/Presents/VisibleV8.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/MINT-RENWAL-VISIBLE-WANKEL-ROTARY-ENGINE-MODEL-ASSEMBLED-AND-WORKING-/00/s/OTI0WDExMTY=/$(KGrHqJHJBIE9tKsvLMYBPm!5RcQyw~~60_35.JPG


tailfins. Yes. I remember that. I had one after they first came out in the hobby stores, back in the late 50's.
After that. I saved my allowance and got THE VISIBLE MAN. But wasn't allowed to get the VISIBLE WOMAN.
Remember. Those were the days when you couldn't say PREGNANT on tv, and when couples were in bed. The man
had to keep one foot on the floor...off camera.
That Visible Engine was terrific by RENWAL. Most of the models I bought were made by REVELLE.

As for the medical condition. I'm just thankful our son's, and now, our grand kids are all healthy.