The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the US

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/
this article is an excellent read, for those with non-racist bents to their psyche.



Below we outline the top 10 facts pertaining to the criminal-justice system’s impact on communities of color.

1. While people of color make up about 30 percent (http://www.theroot.com/views/portrait-black-america-eve-2010-census) of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent (http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122) of those imprisoned.


2. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1525/sp.2011.58.2.257?uid=3739584&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47698736411807) can expect to go to prison in their lifetime.


3. Students of color face harsher punishments in school than their white peers, leading to a higher number of youth of color incarcerated.


4. According to recent data by the Department of Education, African American students are arrested far more often than their white classmates.


5. African American youth have higher rates of juvenile incarceration and are more likely to be sentenced to adult prison.


6. As the number of women incarcerated has increased by 800 percent (http://www.wpaonline.org/pdf/Quick%20Facts%20Women%20and%20CJ%202009.pdf) over the last three decades, women of color have been disproportionately represented (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/women/news/2012/03/07/11219/the-top-5-facts-about-women-in-our-criminal-justice-system/).


7. The war on drugs has been waged primarily in communities of color where people of color are more likely to receive higher offenses.


8. Once convicted, black offenders receive longer sentences compared to white offenders.


9. Voter laws that prohibit people with felony convictions to vote disproportionately impact men of color.


10. Studies have shown that people of color face disparities in wage trajectory (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1525/sp.2011.58.2.257?uid=3739584&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47698736411807) following release from prison.



Theses racial disparities have deprived people of color of their most basic civil rights, making criminal-justice reform the civil rights issue of our time. Through mass imprisonment and the overrepresentation of individuals of color within the criminal justice and prison system, people of color have experienced an adverse impact on themselves and on their communities from barriers to reintegrating into society to engaging in the democratic process. Eliminating the racial disparities inherent to our nation’s criminal-justice policies and practices must be at the heart of a renewed, refocused, and reenergized movement for racial justice in America.

There have been a number of initiatives on the state and federal level to address the racial disparities in youth incarceration. Last summer Secretary of Education Arne Duncan announced the Schools Discipline Initiative (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/education/news/2011/08/15/10146/closing-the-school-to-prison-pipeline/) to bring increased awareness of effective policies and practices to ultimately dismantle the school-to-prison pipeline. States like California and Massachusetts are considering legislation (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/maryland-moves-to-limit-school-suspensions/2012/02/27/gIQA6xCAhR_story_1.html) to address the disproportionate suspensions among students of color. And in Clayton County, Georgia, collaborative local reforms (http://www.aecf.org/MajorInitiatives/JuvenileDetentionAlternativesInitiative/Resources/May10newsletter/FeatureStory.aspx) have resulted in a 47 percent reduction (http://www.advancementproject.org/sites/default/files/publications/rev_fin.pdf) in juvenile-court referrals and a 51 percent (http://www.aecf.org/MajorInitiatives/JuvenileDetentionAlternativesInitiative/Resources/May10newsletter/FeatureStory.aspx) decrease in juvenile felony rates. These initiatives could serve as models of success for lessening the disparities in incarceration rates.

[BillyBob]

Here's another fact: Blacks commit murder [and other violent crimes] 7 times more frequently than whites per Capita. No wonder there are more blacks in prison.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Here's another fact: Blacks commit murder [and other violent crimes] 7 times more frequently than whites per Capita. No wonder there are more blacks in prison.

the topic is blacks and how the criminal justice system treats them... not about crime rates themselves. Stay on topic, dumb ass.

[BillyBob]

the topic is blacks and how the criminal justice system treats them... not about crime rates themselves. Stay on topic, dumb ass.

If blacks didn't participate in criminal activities, they wouldn't be wards of the criminal justice system. Or is this another topic that is far beyond your very limited understanding?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1996/1/96.01.10.x.html


This unit, designed for grades 9-12 in social studies, law, sociology or Black history, will explore the ever persistent significance of race in the criminal justice system by encouraging honest debate among students. All students generally, and Black students in particular, must come to the understanding that the racial prejudices of the larger society are also present in the criminal justice system. Attempts by anyone, especially teachers, to simply wish away these prejudices, or to gloss over them is as great a disservice to intellectual discourse as is the attempt by many to avoid any discussion of the subject at all.

An excellent read. Although I know it's over the intelligence of some people here, others with open minds and a modicum of intellectual honesty will appreciate the information linked.

[Marcus Aurelius]

If blacks didn't participate in criminal activities, they wouldn't be wards of the criminal justice system. Or is this another topic that is far beyond your very limited understanding?
Neither would whites, dumb ass.

[BillyBob]

Neither would whites, dumb ass.


The subject here is blacks and their criminal activities. If you wanna start a thread about whites, feel free to do so, imbecile.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The subject here is blacks and their criminal activities. If you wanna start a thread about whites, feel free to do so, imbecile.

My thread, dumb ass. I determine the topic, not you. Don't like it? Start another of your race baiting threads and leave this one as is.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://realsociology.edublogs.org/2010/11/02/the-home-offices-take-on-why-black-people-are-seven-times-more-likely-to-end-up-in-jail-than-white-people/


The report says the following about the causes of overrepresentation - there are multiple and complex causes!



Educational underachievement is a symptom and cause of disadvantage
Educational underachievement and disaffection is accompanied by high levels of school exclusion among black young people
Deprivation and underachievement mean young black people lack positive role models to which to aspire
Other issues within black communities compound disadvantage
Young black people’s distinctive reaction to disadvantage also causes involvement in crime
Criminal Justice System factors play a direct and indirect role in promoting overrepresentation
Young black people who have offended are more likely to come into contact with the system
In some instances, discrimination contributes directly to overrepresentation
The perception, as well as the reality, of discrimination promotes involvement with the criminal justice system



another good read. It shows that overrepresentation of blacks in the criminal justice system happens in England as well, for the same reasons it happens here.

[BillyBob]

My thread, dumb ass. I determine the topic, not you. Don't like it? Start another of your race baiting threads and leave this one as is.


The subject of this racist thread is 'Facts about colored people'. So stay on topic, retard.

[BillyBob]

http://realsociology.edublogs.org/2010/11/02/the-home-offices-take-on-why-black-people-are-seven-times-more-likely-to-end-up-in-jail-than-white-people/



another good read. It shows that overrepresentation of blacks in the criminal justice system happens in England as well, for the same reasons it happens here.


And that reason is that blacks have a propensity for crime.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The subject of this racist thread is 'Facts about colored people'. So stay on topic, retard.

Thread: The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the US (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40890-The-Top-10-Most-Startling-Facts-About-People-of-Color-and-Criminal-Justice-in-the-US)The subject is not just 'colored people', the thread title in its entirety is the subject. Stick with it.

[Trigg]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/
this article is an excellent read, for those with non-racist bents to their psyche.



Educational underachievement and disaffection is accompanied by high levels of school exclusion among black young people
Deprivation and underachievement mean young black people lack positive role models to which to aspire
Other issues within black communities compound disadvantage


Both of these points in my oppinion can be attributed to poor parenting and single parent houses. If a parent doesn't consider an education to be important than neither will the child.

Young black boys especially need role models since the majority 70% of black births are out of wedlock.

Having raised 3 boys, they need men in their lives when they're going through puberty and learning how to become men. It isn't surprising that black boys get in trouble more often than any other race, since they are the ones who lack good role models.

Public assistance programs have done the black population a disservice by making having children out of wedlock a better idea financially than getting married and struggling as a family.

I don't think they're getting picked on more out of discrimination. Black crime is perpetrated against other blacks the majority of the time.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Both of these points in my oppinion can be attributed to poor parenting and single parent houses. If a parent doesn't consider an education to be important than neither will the child.

Young black boys especially need role models since the majority 70% of black births are out of wedlock.

Having raised 3 boys, they need men in their lives when they're going through puberty and learning how to become men. It isn't surprising that black boys get in trouble more often than any other race, since they are the ones who lack good role models.

Public assistance programs have done the black population a disservice by making having children out of wedlock a better idea financially than getting married and struggling as a family.

I don't think they're getting picked on more out of discrimination. Black crime is perpetrated against other blacks the majority of the time.

Point 1: I'd like to see a link to that.
Point 2: Like to see a link to this as well, as most stats I've seen disagree.

[Trigg]

Point 1: I'd like to see a link to that.
Point 2: Like to see a link to this as well, as most stats I've seen disagree.


It's actually 73% as of 2010, my bad.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_01.pdf

The proportions of nonmarital births vary widely among population subgroups. In 2010, these proportions were 17 percent for API, 29 percent for non-Hispanic white, 53 percent for Hispanic, 66 percent for AIAN, and 73 percent for non-Hispanic black births.

[Trigg]

I am at work so I'm pulled homicides only. I don't have time find all the statistics at this time. But, it's been studied fully.


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6

[fj1200]

The proportions of nonmarital births vary widely among population subgroups. In 2010, these proportions were 17 percent for API, 29 percent for non-Hispanic white, 53 percent for Hispanic, 66 percent for AIAN, and 73 percent for non-Hispanic black births.

I imagine that correlates to income levels as well although I couldn't find anything right away.

[gabosaurus]

Why is any of this relevant?

[Marcus Aurelius]

It's actually 73% as of 2010, my bad.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_01.pdf

The proportions of nonmarital births vary widely among population subgroups. In 2010, these proportions were 17 percent for API, 29 percent for non-Hispanic white, 53 percent for Hispanic, 66 percent for AIAN, and 73 percent for non-Hispanic black births.



so it's ridiculously high across the board, just higher for blacks. thanks for the link.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Trigg http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=639787#post639787)

The proportions of nonmarital births vary widely among population subgroups. In 2010, these proportions were 17 percent for API, 29 percent for non-Hispanic white, 53 percent for Hispanic, 66 percent for AIAN, and 73 percent for non-Hispanic black births.


I imagine that correlates to income levels as well although I couldn't find anything right away.

quite possible. that would also tie into their entry into 'the system'.

[Trigg]

so it's ridiculously high across the board, just higher for blacks. thanks for the link.

Actually it's very low for Asians and moderate for Whites.

It's god aweful high for blacks, and goes a long way to explain why they get into trouble more often.

Kids with less supervision get into more trouble.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why is any of this relevant?

Typical, confused and lost again Gabs?
The relevance is as easy to see as a mountain on a clear sunny day.
If you truly do not see it then you need real serious help. -Tyr

[Marcus Aurelius]

Actually it's very low for Asians and moderate for Whites.

It's god aweful high for blacks, and goes a long way to explain why they get into trouble more often.

Kids with less supervision get into more trouble.

Would you agree it's not a genetic thing? Would you also agree that the justice system treats blacks differently than whites?

[jimnyc]

The subject here is blacks and their criminal activities. If you wanna start a thread about whites, feel free to do so, imbecile.

Please stay on topic and not a racist bent.

[Trigg]

Would you agree it's not a genetic thing? Would you also agree that the justice system treats blacks differently than whites?


I see it as a symptom of parenting, or lack their of. Poverty plays a roll in that single parent homes have less supervision and less money for activities that might keep them out of trouble.

I also think it has to do with a victim mentality that many have towards society. Which is fostered by black "leaders".

No I don't think the justice system is to blaim. If a child is in trouble from the time they are 14 than a judge will be harder on them each time he sees that child. A first offender is likely to be given less time.

There are black lawyers and judges and black victims demanding justice.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I see it as a symptom of parenting, or lack their of. In part, certainly that plays a role.


Poverty plays a roll in that single parent homes have less supervision and less money for activities that might keep them out of trouble. Again, in part, certainly that plays a role.

I also think it has to do with a victim mentality that many have towards society. Which is fostered by black "leaders".
I do not disagree, especially since you did not blanket all black people together and used the qualifier 'many'. people like JEssie Jackso and Al Sharpton are the worst offenders among black leaders. There are many examples of black leader who do not foster the 'poor us, the white man has it out for us' mentality. Strangely, they are mostly conservative black leaders. Hmmmmm.....

No I don't think the justice system is to blaim. Not entirely, certainly. But studies show (as I posted previously) that blacks are indeed treated differently at many levels of the system than their white counterparts.

If a child is in trouble from the time they are 14 than a judge will be harder on them each time he sees that child. Quite possibly.

A first offender is likely to be given less time. Unless the first offender is white. Again, studies have shown different treatment for whites vs. blacks in the justice system, for the same offenses and situations.

There are black lawyers and judges and black victims demanding justice. Not sure I follow that statement. Please elaborate.





my comments in RED above...

btw... the above posts between Trigg and myself show civil discourse can be had between people with differing opinions, when both are open minded and have not already made up their minds to shut out anything contrary to what they believe.

[Trigg]

A first offender is likely to be given less time. Unless the first offender is white. Again, studies have shown different treatment for whites vs. blacks in the justice system, for the same offenses and situations.

There are black lawyers and judges and black victims demanding justice. Not sure I follow that statement. Please elaborate.


I posted homicide rates in order to point out that the majority of blacks target blacks. Statistics I'v seen show races tend to target the majority of their victims inside their own race. Since those are the people they live around.

Again from the FBI reports. These are stats on ARREST records, not convictions.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/aus9010.pdf

For ALL crime, homicides, drugs, property you name it. Also note the FBI does not separate hispanic crimes.

Blacks are arrested at a much higher rate than they should be based on their population size, but they apparently commit crimes at a much higher level as well.

I disagree with you that courts are biased because of institutional racism, which is what I think you are trying to get at. Conceivably the victims are giving out the descriptions which the police then act on.

Blacks are arrested: 3,655,000
Whites are arrested: 9,122,000

while we can blame parents and fatherless households for juvenile crime, I do not give adults the same pass.

[BillyBob]

Thread: The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the US (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40890-The-Top-10-Most-Startling-Facts-About-People-of-Color-and-Criminal-Justice-in-the-US)

The subject is not just 'colored people', the thread title in its entirety is the subject. Stick with it.

Says the guy who off-topically mentioned white people when confronted with the truth. You should be banned from your own thread for derailing it.



Anyway, instead of making excuses for blacks who are in the penal system, why not make the obvious assumption and realize that they are their because the committed a crime? Otherwise you'll have to blame racist cops for falsely arresting them. Racist juries for falsely convicting them. Racist judges for falsely sentencing them. Racist prisons for falsely holding them. Racist media for falsely reporting on them. That's ridiculous.

[BillyBob]

so it's ridiculously high across the board, just higher for blacks. thanks for the link.

Nearly 3 times higher for blacks than whites.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Nearly 3 times higher for blacks than whites.

So, not only are you a racist prick, you're a mathematically challenged racist prick.


29 percent for non-Hispanic white
73 percent for non-Hispanic black

29 times 3 is 87

a difference of 14 is not 'nearly'.

[BillyBob]

So, not only are you a racist prick, you're a mathematically challenged racist prick.

Do you kiss your boyfriend with that mouth?




29 times 3 is 87

a difference of 14 is not 'nearly'.


Sure it is.

[jimnyc]

BB, stay on topic and stop the fighting, and the same to you Marcus. Please discuss the topic at hand.

[Marcus Aurelius]

BB, stay on topic and stop the fighting, and the same to you Marcus. Please discuss the topic at hand.

difficult to discuss the topic of the thread... a thread I started... with someone who tells me the topic isn't what I said it was in the title of the thread.

[Robert A Whit]

Actually it's very low for Asians and moderate for Whites.

It's god aweful high for blacks, and goes a long way to explain why they get into trouble more often.

Kids with less supervision get into more trouble.

I do not understand those you reply to arguing against the stone cold facts.

And to be censored for speaking of race is not a very good way to handle things. We are pummeled by the negroes all the time and yet they seem to not be talking race trash.

We read that if negroes are in jail, it must be due to whites ganging up on them and doing them injustice. I say bull to that way of thinking. Billybob has presented some vital facts and gets in trouble for asking those of us supposedly smart people to see what can be done to solve those problems. When you exclude race, it can easily be alleged that the negroes whining have no excuse of any sort. Their arguments begin and end with race talk.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/black_prisoners_tend_to_serve_longer_sentences_tha n_whites/


Black men in prison on average are given sentences nearly 20 percent longer than those served by white men for similar crimes, new sentencing data shows.

The data is contained in a report by the U.S. Sentencing Commission that was submitted to Congress last month and made public this week, the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002.html#p rintMode) (sub.req.) reports.

According to the report, sentences for black males were 19.5 percent longer than those for similarly situated white males between December 2007 and September 2011, the most recent period covered in the report. The commission also found that black males were 25 percent less likely than whites to receive a sentence below the sentencing guidelines.

A separate analysis of the data that excluded sentences of probation showed the same pattern, although the racial disparity was less pronounced. Black men on average were given sentences 14.5 percent longer than whites.
The findings show that the racial divide in sentencing has widened since the U.S. Supreme Court's 2005 ruling in U.S. v. Booker, which struck down a 1984 law requiring judges to impose sentences within the sentencing guidelines. In the two years after the Booker ruling, sentences for blacks on average were 15.2 percent longer than those for similarly situated whites.

The commission's report recommends that federal judges give the sentencing guidelines more weight and that federal appeals courts give more scrutiny to sentences that fall outside the guidelines.




more proof of the justice system treating black men differently than white men.

Like Whit-less said... 'I do not understand those you reply to arguing against the stone cold facts.'

[BillyBob]

more proof of the justice system treating black men differently than white men.

Here's an idea: If blacks don't want to go to prison they should stop committing crimes.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Here's an idea: If blacks don't want to go to prison they should stop committing crimes.

off topic.

[BillyBob]

off topic.


LOL! No, not at all. We're discussing why blacks go to prison. My response was precisely along those lines. lol

[aboutime]

off topic.


Marcus. As usual. That will, and must be denied by the likely member. Hiding behind racism is as bad as bragging about it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

LOL! No, not at all. We're discussing why blacks go to prison. My response was precisely along those lines. lol

No, we are discussing The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the US.

Why blacks go to prison is your own racist agenda, trying to derail a serious discussion about the disparities in the treatment of blacks in the system itself.

[BillyBob]

No, we are discussing The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the US.

One of the facts that seems to startle you the most is that some blacks actually commit crimes and deserve to be imprisoned. That couldn't be more topical.




Why backs go to prison is your own racist agenda,

That's the exact topic of your thread.

[Marcus Aurelius]

One of the facts that seems to startle you the most is that some blacks actually commit crimes and deserve to be imprisoned. That couldn't be more topical.





That's the exact topic of your thread.

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.vsb.org/docs/valawyermagazine/dec00dunnaville.pdf


“Unequal treatment of minorities characterizes every stage of the process. Black and Hispanic Americans, and other minority groups as well, are victimized by disproportionate targeting

and unfair treatment by police and other frontline law enforcement officials; by racially skewed charging and plea bargaining decisions of prosecutors; by discriminatory sentencing practices; and by failure of judges, elected officials and other criminal justice policy makers to redress the inequities that become more glaring every day.



“Solving these problems, the first thing is to see them. That is the hard part. Mustering the will to solve them is difficult but less so. Least difficult is the business of designing the

mechanics of solutions. All of us look. Few of us see or want to see, trained lovingly as we are in the more genteel, commonplace, everyday bigotries. The blindness is pretty much

universal. We’ve all been acclimated to static expectation and some level of socially acceptable prejudice.”

sounds like someone I know.

[BillyBob]

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.


I understand your desperation, but your are wrong. This is from your OP:

1. While people of color make up about 30 percent (http://www.theroot.com/views/portrait-black-america-eve-2010-census) of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent (http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122) of those imprisoned.


2. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1525/sp.2011.58.2.257?uid=3739584&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47698736411807) can expect to go to prison in their lifetime.


By saying that I'm derailing your thread, what your really mean is that I am not agreeing with you. If that becomes the standard of what is deemed 'off-topic', then there is no reason to even have a discussion forum.

Now stop whining and get back to posting.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I understand your desperation, but your are wrong. This is from your OP:

1. While people of color make up about 30 percent (http://www.theroot.com/views/portrait-black-america-eve-2010-census) of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent (http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122) of those imprisoned.


2. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1525/sp.2011.58.2.257?uid=3739584&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47698736411807) can expect to go to prison in their lifetime.


By saying that I'm derailing your thread, what your really mean is that I am not agreeing with you. If that becomes the standard of what is deemed 'off-topic', then there is no reason to even have a discussion forum.

Now stop whining and get back to posting.

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.

[BillyBob]

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.


I understand your desperation, but your are wrong. This is from your OP:

1. While people of color make up about 30 percent (http://www.theroot.com/views/portrait-black-america-eve-2010-census) of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent (http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122) of those imprisoned.


2. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1525/sp.2011.58.2.257?uid=3739584&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47698736411807) can expect to go to prison in their lifetime.


By saying that I'm derailing your thread, what your really mean is that I am not agreeing with you. If that becomes the standard of what is deemed 'off-topic', then there is no reason to even have a discussion forum.

Now stop whining and get back to posting.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I understand your desperation, but your are wrong. This is from your OP:

1. While people of color make up about 30 percent (http://www.theroot.com/views/portrait-black-america-eve-2010-census) of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent (http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122) of those imprisoned.


2. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1525/sp.2011.58.2.257?uid=3739584&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47698736411807) can expect to go to prison in their lifetime.


By saying that I'm derailing your thread, what your really mean is that I am not agreeing with you. If that becomes the standard of what is deemed 'off-topic', then there is no reason to even have a discussion forum.

Now stop whining and get back to posting.

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.

[BillyBob]

By the way, who exactly are the 'People of Color'?

[BillyBob]

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system...



lol

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-9-1-c-does-the-criminal-justice-system-discriminate-against-african-americans


The San Jose Mercury News (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/) conducted a massive study of 700,000 California legal cases over a 10-year period. The paper reported in December 1991 that 33 percent of the white adults who were arrested, but had no prior record, were able to get felony charges against them reduced. Only 25 percent of the African-Americans and Latinos with no priors were as successful in plea bargaining (http://dictionary.findlaw.com/scripts/results.pl?co=dictionary.findlaw.com&topic=b8/b8053aab0282e677473ea00596a6ea44).


In 1985, Cornell law professor Sheri Lynn Johnson reviewed a dozen mock jury studies. She concluded that the "race of the defendant significantly and directly affects the determination of guilt." In these studies, identical trials were simulated, sometimes with white defendants and sometimes with African-Americans. Professor Johnson discovered that white jurors were more likely to find a black defendant guilty than a white defendant, even though the mock trials were based on the same crime and the same evidence.


The 1983 Rand Institute study found that convicted African-Americans were more likely than whites to go to prison. And their sentences were longer. "This disparity," the study concluded, "suggests that probation officers, judges, and parole boards are exercising discretion in sentencing and/or release decisions in ways that result in de facto (http://www.bartleby.com/61/91/D0089100.html) discrimination against blacks." De facto means the discrimination exists in fact, but without legal authority -- and it may not be intentional.



The state of Georgia was the subject of a careful study of 2,000 murder cases prosecuted during the 1970s. The study showed that defendants convicted of killing whites were more than four times more likely to receive the death penalty than those convicted of murdering blacks. The study also revealed that black defendants who murdered whites had by far the greatest chance of being sentenced to death.

[BillyBob]

How many of your 'people of color' are illegals?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.justicepolicy.org/uploads/justicepolicy/documents/05-10_fac_crimeracejjpolicy_jj-ps-rd.pdf


While some have denounced the comments by former Education Secretary and Drug Czar William Bennett, they unfortunately believe his comments are based in fact. Those who believe that African American or Latino youth are more “criminal” than any other ethnic groups are simply wrong. The real facts tell us much more than stereotypes, or musings—both of which obscure the well-documented disparate treatment accorded African Americans compared to whites within the justice system.




Since 1992, when the Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Act (JJDPA) was amended, the federal government has acknowledged that youth of different races and ethnicities are treated differently by the justice system.




In a seminal meta-analysis conducted by researchers Carl Pope and Richard Feyerherm for the Justice Department, two-thirds of the studies of state and local juvenile justice systems they analyzed found that there was a "race effect" at some stage of the juvenile justice process that affected outcomes for minorities for the worse. Their research suggested that “the effects of race may be felt at various decision points, they may be direct or indirect, and they may accumulate as youth continue through thesystem.”





African American Make Up Nearly Half the Youth Detained for Drug Offenses, But Use Drugs at the Same Rate as Whites

[Marcus Aurelius]

How many of your 'people of color' are illegals?

off topic. stop trying to derail this thread.

[BillyBob]

Through mass imprisonment and the overrepresentation of individuals of color within the criminal justice and prison system, people of color have experienced an adverse impact on themselves and on their communities from barriers to reintegrating into society to engaging in the democratic process.


You know how to fix that? Tell those 'people of color' to stop committing crimes. BAM!

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://ejusa.org/learn/fairness


A jury of your peers?

People who do not support the death penalty are excluded from serving on capital juries. The result is that large segments of the population can’t participate in the most serious cases.
Prosecutors have taken pains to strike black jurors in murder cases, even though the Supreme Court has expressly prohibited racially motivated strikes. One famous training tape for Philadelphia prosecutors instructed them on how to strike black jurors and get away with it. The tape's lessons spread across the nation. During one Florida trial, a black juror was rejected for wearing "pointy New York shoes."4 (http://ejusa.org/learn/fairness#footnote4_zqlc8x3)
In some communities, race-based exclusion from juries is extreme. For example, in Houston County, Alabama, 8 out of 10 qualified African Americans have been struck by prosecutors from death penalty cases.5 (http://ejusa.org/learn/fairness#footnote5_gen2iw4)

[BillyBob]

off topic. stop trying to derail this thread.


Not off topic at all. It is very pertinent to this conversation because if they are illegal and receive a harsher sentence than a 'white', then you cannot claim a disparity in justice. So answer the question.

Look, if you are afraid to have a reasonable discussion and encounter views which are counter to your own, perhaps you shouldn't be posting on a discussion forum in the first place. FYI

[Marcus Aurelius]

You know how to fix that? Tell those 'people of color' stop committing crimes. BAM!

off topic, and cherry picking from the quote.

Here's the whole paragraph...


Theses racial disparities have deprived people of color of their most basic civil rights, making criminal-justice reform the civil rights issue of our time. Through mass imprisonment and the overrepresentation of individuals of color within the criminal justice and prison system, people of color have experienced an adverse impact on themselves and on their communities from barriers to reintegrating into society to engaging in the democratic process. Eliminating the racial disparities inherent to our nation’s criminal-justice policies and practices must be at the heart of a renewed, refocused, and reenergized movement for racial justice in America.

context is everything... unless you are willfully blind to honesty... like you.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Not off topic at all. It is very pertinent to this conversation because if they are illegal and receive a harsher sentence than a 'white', then you cannot claim a disparity in justice. So answer the question.

Look, if you are afraid to have a reasonable discussion and encounter views which are counter to your own, perhaps you shouldn't be posting on a discussion forum in the first place. FYI

citizenship is NOT the topic. do try to keep up.

[BillyBob]

off topic, and cherry picking from the quote.




How can it be off topic if I am responding directly to a quote in YOUR OP?

The only person derailing this thread is you.

[BillyBob]

citizenship is NOT the topic. do try to keep up.


Of course it's on topic. Why are you afraid to answer the question? Why are you afraid to take an honest look at this?

And you still haven't answered the question: Who are these people of color? Wait, let me guess, you're gonna claim that's off-topic, too! LOLOLOL!!!

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=46352


Recommendations for Criminal Justice Issues The Taskforce condemns Racial Profiling by all law enforcement agencies in the State of Illinois.


The Taskforce recommends on-going programs to facilitate expungement in a timely manner.
The Taskforce recommends changes in laws for felony convictions.
Taskforce members believe that employment opportunities for African American men in Illinois will increase significantly when felony laws are modified and when African American men are properly represented in courts.
The Taskforce strongly recommends that bailiffs, judges and all other Court Room personnel remain always respectful to families and dependents, to be enforced by the presiding judge.
It is recommended that the number of contacts for in-prison support, i.e., through family unification, professional counselors and other relative support groups be increased.
Resources should be designated to support programs for ex-offenders' entrepreneurial opportunities.
Work to affect change in the community's environment, by providing positive activities for youth that are proven to result in successful outcomes.


more ways black men are treated worse in the justice system.

[BillyBob]

The Taskforce condemns Racial Profiling by all law enforcement agencies in the State of Illinois.

If blacks commit crime 7 times more frequently than whites, why WOULDN'T you profile them?

[Marcus Aurelius]

If blacks commit crime 7 times more frequently than whites, why WOULDN'T you profile them?


the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.

[BillyBob]

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.

I responded directly to your post. Stop derailing this thread.

So tell us, who exactly are these 'People of Color'?

[BillyBob]

Hispanics [edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Race_and_crime_in_the_United_State s&action=edit&section=11)]According to a 2009 report by the Pew Hispanic Center, in 2007 Latinos "accounted for 40% of all sentenced federal offenders-more than triple their share (13%) of the total U.S. adult population". This was an increase from 24% in 1991. 72% of the Latino offenders were not U.S. citizens. For Hispanic offenders sentenced in federal courts, 48% were immigration offenses and 37% drug offenses. One reason for the large increase in immigration offenses is that they exclusively fall under federal jurisdiction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

[BillyBob]

Youth gangs [edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Race_and_crime_in_the_United_State s&action=edit&section=13)]The "National Youth Gang Survey Analysis" (2009) state that of gang members, 49% are Hispanic/Latino, 35% are African-American/black, 9% are white, and 7% are other race/ethnicity.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)



Another reason 'coloreds' are disproportionately incarcerated.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Youth gangs [edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Race_and_crime_in_the_United_State s&action=edit&section=13)]

The "National Youth Gang Survey Analysis" (2009) state that of gang members, 49% are Hispanic/Latino, 35% are African-American/black, 9% are white, and 7% are other race/ethnicity.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)



Another reason 'coloreds' are disproportionately incarcerated.

the topic is their treatment once they are in the system... NOT that they did or did not commit a crime to begin with.

stop derailing.

[BillyBob]

This is interesting. The author says that blacks don't consider the criminal justice system as legitimate. Probably because they have been told all their lives by the race baiters that they don't receive equal treatment, even when that is not the case. The OP is a perfect example of that.


Racial Disparities in the Criminal Justice System and Perceptions of Legitimacy
Historically, research has shown that minorities, especially Blacks, are more likely to be arrested and sentenced to prison terms than their White counterparts. Explanations of these findings range from those claiming that minorities differentially engage in deviant and criminal behavior, to those claiming that the criminal justice system (CJS) treats minorities differently. A related line of work has shown that minorities tend to view the CJS as less just or legitimate than Whites. Most explanations for this finding center on personal experiences of unjust treatment. However, research has also shown that vicarious experiences can influence perceptions of legitimacy toward the CJS and that Blacks often have more negative attitudes even when considering the same objective event as Whites.



[*=left]Michael Rocqu (http://raj.sagepub.com/search?author1=Michael+Rocque&sortspec=date&submit=Submit)e -School of Criminology and Criminal Justice, Northeastern University, Boston, MA, USA



<address style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; outline-style: none; font-weight: inherit; font-style: normal; font-size: inherit; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: inherit; text-align: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">

</address>

http://raj.sagepub.com/content/1/3/292.abstract

[Robert A Whit]

This is interesting. The author says that blacks don't consider the criminal justice system as legitimate. Probably because they have been told all their lives by the race baiters that they don't receive equal treatment, even when that is not the case. The OP is a perfect example of that.


Racial Disparities in the Criminal Justice System and Perceptions of Legitimacy


Historically, research has shown that minorities, especially Blacks, are more likely to be arrested and sentenced to prison terms than their White counterparts. Explanations of these findings range from those claiming that minorities differentially engage in deviant and criminal behavior, to those claiming that the criminal justice system (CJS) treats minorities differently. A related line of work has shown that minorities tend to view the CJS as less just or legitimate than Whites. Most explanations for this finding center on personal experiences of unjust treatment. However, research has also shown that vicarious experiences can influence perceptions of legitimacy toward the CJS and that Blacks often have more negative attitudes even when considering the same objective event as Whites.



[*=left]Michael Rocqu (http://raj.sagepub.com/search?author1=Michael+Rocque&sortspec=date&submit=Submit)e -School of Criminology and Criminal Justice, Northeastern University, Boston, MA, USA



<address style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; outline-style: none; font-weight: inherit; font-style: normal; font-size: inherit; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: inherit; text-align: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">

</address>

http://raj.sagepub.com/content/1/3/292.abstract

Course this in no way applies to the negros that do not end up in jail.

Many negros rise to important positions.

It seems smart to break this out as to those actually involved in crime rather than just the group.

Bear in mind, the vast majority of negroes are good citizens.

[BillyBob]

Course this in no way applies to the negros that do not end up in jail.

Many negros rise to important positions.

Careful, you'll dispel the myth that blacks can't succeed because whites are racists.





It seems smart to break this out as to those actually involved in crime rather than just the group.

Those are certainly the ones we're discussing. The ones who committed a crime and end up in the penal system. The one's whose behavior is something some folks like to make excuses for by shifting blame from the criminal to the judge.




Bear in mind, the vast majority of negroes are good citizens.

How do you determine which ones are 'good citizens'? Honest question. I have no doubt they exist, I'm just curious how you know what percentage they represent.

[aboutime]

Youth gangs [edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Race_and_crime_in_the_United_State s&action=edit&section=13)]

The "National Youth Gang Survey Analysis" (2009) state that of gang members, 49% are Hispanic/Latino, 35% are African-American/black, 9% are white, and 7% are other race/ethnicity.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#cite_note-29)



Another reason 'coloreds' are disproportionately incarcerated.


What I find most interesting about those numbers above, in comparing races according to gang membership is. Most of those listed are at least much more intelligent than someone who posts such information to hide behind their own racism, and bigotry.
Sounds like we could all trust gang members over accepting such blatant, obvious hatred being displayed here, on this thread.

[Robert A Whit]

Careful, you'll dispel the myth that blacks can't succeed because whites are racists.

(RW comments removed)
Those are certainly the ones we're discussing. The ones who committed a crime and end up in the penal system. The one's whose behavior is something some folks like to make excuses for by shifting blame from the criminal to the judge.
(RW comments removed)
How do you determine which ones are 'good citizens'? Honest question. I have no doubt they exist, I'm just curious how you know what percentage they represent.

I wanted to deal with the idea that the majority are good citizens.

I don't know about you but I don't treat the juveniles the way i treat adults for purposes of discussion. While many children do go bad, I would not claim a majority go bad.

Beyond the age of say 40, many if not most negros that were in a life of crime found out being in jail was too much trouble and of course the criminal element life is not very easy once they get old.

Some of this is my intuition talking. maybe out my butt.

I just can't see how at some point they wise up a bit and of course a lot of them just don't commit crimes.

I truly tend to discount some drug crimes since they are silly laws. Heroin is terrible and I defend the freedom of people to use it, I don't believe it is good for anybody.

[BillyBob]

What I find most interesting about those numbers above, in comparing races according to gang membership is. Most of those listed are at least much more intelligent than someone who posts such information to hide behind their own racism, and bigotry.
Sounds like we could all trust gang members over accepting such blatant, obvious hatred being displayed here, on this thread.


Posting stats is racist.

Got it.

[BillyBob]

I wanted to deal with the idea that the majority are good citizens.

They very well may be, I don't know. What defines a 'good citizen'? I bet you can get as many different answers as the number of people you ask.





I don't know about you but I don't treat the juveniles the way i treat adults for purposes of discussion. While many children do go bad, I would not claim a majority go bad.

Beyond the age of say 40, many if not most negros that were in a life of crime found out being in jail was too much trouble and of course the criminal element life is not very easy once they get old.

Some of this is my intuition talking. maybe out my butt.

I just can't see how at some point they wise up a bit and of course a lot of them just don't commit crimes.

I truly tend to discount some drug crimes since they are silly laws. Heroin is terrible and I defend the freedom of people to use it, I don't believe it is good for anybody.


Me too.