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View Full Version : Pentagon Unilaterally Grants Itself Authority Over ‘Civil Disturbances’



revelarts
05-17-2013, 05:34 PM
The manhunt for the Boston Marathon bombing suspects offered the nation a window into the stunning military-style capabilities of our local law enforcement agencies. For the past 30 years, police departments throughout the United States have benefitted from the government’s largesse in the form of military weaponry and training, incentives offered in the ongoing “War on Drugs.” (http://www.hangthejury.com/) For the average citizen watching events such as the intense pursuit of the Tsarnaev brothers on television, it would be difficult to discern between fully outfitted police SWAT teams and the military.
The lines blurred even further Monday as a new dynamic was introduced to the militarization of domestic law enforcement. By making a few subtle changes to a regulation in the U.S. Code titled “Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies” (http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C18.txt) the military has quietly granted itself the ability to police the streets without obtaining prior local or state consent, upending a precedent that has been in place for more than two centuries.
Click here to read the new rule (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-04-12/html/2013-07802.htm)
The most objectionable aspect of the regulatory change is the inclusion of vague language that permits military intervention in the event of “civil disturbances.” According to the rule:

Federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances.

Bruce Afran, a civil liberties attorney and constitutional law professor at Rutgers University, calls the rule, “a wanton power grab by the military,” and says, “It’s quite shocking actually because it violates the long-standing presumption that the military is under civilian control.”
A defense official who declined to be named takes a different view of the rule, claiming, “The authorization has been around over 100 years; it’s not a new authority. It’s been there but it hasn’t been exercised. This is a carryover of domestic policy.” Moreover, he insists the Pentagon doesn’t “want to get involved in civilian law enforcement. It’s one of those red lines that the military hasn’t signed up for.” Nevertheless, he says, “every person in the military swears an oath of allegiance to the Constitution of the United States to defend that Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.”
One of the more disturbing aspects of the new procedures that govern military command on the ground in the event of a civil disturbance relates to authority. Not only does it fail to define what circumstances would be so severe that the president’s authorization is “impossible,” it grants full presidential authority to “Federal military commanders.” According to the defense official, a commander is defined as follows: “Somebody who’s in the position of command, has the title commander. And most of the time they are centrally selected by a board, they’ve gone through additional schooling to exercise command authority.”
As it is written, this “commander” has the same power to authorize military force as the president in the event the president is somehow unable to access a telephone. (The rule doesn’t address the statutory chain of authority that already exists in the event a sitting president is unavailable.) In doing so, this commander must exercise judgment in determining what constitutes, “wanton destruction of property,” “adequate protection for Federal property,” “domestic violence,” or “conspiracy that hinders the execution of State or Federal law,” as these are the circumstances that might be considered an “emergency.”
“These phrases don’t have any legal meaning,” says Afran. “It’s no different than the emergency powers clause in the Weimar constitution [of the German Reich]. It’s a grant of emergency power to the military to rule over parts of the country at their own discretion.”
Afran also expresses apprehension over the government’s authority “to engage temporarily in activities necessary to quell large-scale disturbances.”...
more at
http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/05/14/u-s-military-power-grab-goes-into-effect/



I'm sure many here will think that there nothing wrong with this.
That we can trust the military. "why are you a conspiracy theorist rev blah blah."
look whatever, i'm not debating it any more.

just one question.

if this is nothing new and the same old same old. why did they make the new rule up? OUT OF NOTHING BTW?
I know many of you think the erosion of posse comitatus to date has been fine and wonderful. Done with 5 different moves by the feds and now the pentagon in the pass 15 years. no worries.
Makes you feel good to see the military knocking on doors in Boston
and New Orleans where they took peoples guns... for their safety.

OK, whatever, I'm sure some of you will enjoy all the law and order the military will bring. As long as a republican is in the white house it will mean it's necessary.

BillyBob
05-17-2013, 05:42 PM
More tyranny. Anybody ever heard of the Posse Comitatus Act?

Marcus Aurelius
05-17-2013, 06:51 PM
I'm sure many here will think that there nothing wrong with this.
That we can trust the military. "why are you a conspiracy theorist rev blah blah."
look whatever, i'm not debating it any more.

just one question.

if this is nothing new and the same old same old. why did they make the new rule up? OUT OF NOTHING BTW?
I know many of you think the erosion of posse comitatus to date has been fine and wonderful. Done with 5 different moves by the feds and now the pentagon in the pass 15 years. no worries.
Makes you feel good to see the military knocking on doors in Boston
and New Orleans where they took peoples guns... for their safety.

OK, whatever, I'm sure some of you will enjoy all the law and order the military will bring. As long as a republican is in the white house it will mean it's necessary.

you keep saying you're not debating it anymore, yet you keep posting this drivel.


The most objectionable aspect of the regulatory change is the inclusion of vague language that permits military intervention in the event of “civil disturbances.” According to the rule:
Federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances.

Fuck it. If the locals cannot handle it, lets leave them alone and let anarchy reign supreme, right?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
05-17-2013, 07:07 PM
I'm sure many here will think that there nothing wrong with this.
That we can trust the military. "why are you a conspiracy theorist rev blah blah."
look whatever, i'm not debating it any more.

just one question.

if this is nothing new and the same old same old. why did they make the new rule up? OUT OF NOTHING BTW?
I know many of you think the erosion of posse comitatus to date has been fine and wonderful. Done with 5 different moves by the feds and now the pentagon in the pass 15 years. no worries.
Makes you feel good to see the military knocking on doors in Boston
and New Orleans where they took peoples guns... for their safety.

OK, whatever, I'm sure some of you will enjoy all the law and order the military will bring. As long as a republican is in the white house it will mean it's necessary.

On this you are correct.. Big (dictatorial)government needs to be able to use its biggest stick (military) here within our borders. I see this as just another step towards the tyrrany obama wants to promote here.
Posse comitatus exists for a very, very important reason!!!--Tyr

logroller
05-17-2013, 11:28 PM
On this you are correct.. Big (dictatorial)government needs to be able to use its biggest stick (military) here within our borders. I see this as just another step towards the tyrrany obama wants to promote here.
Posse comitatus exists for a very, very important reason!!!--Tyr
Clear evidence of the pervasiveness of tyranny. First gitmo, now this. If you give a mouse a cookie...

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
05-18-2013, 12:59 AM
Clear evidence of the pervasiveness of tyranny. First gitmo, now this. If you give a mouse a cookie...

Can not disagree with that...This mouse is the real deal. He wants to take everybody's cookies away.-Tyr

jimnyc
05-18-2013, 05:09 AM
Can anyone post a more reasonable article from MSM? I did followup searches and all I find is blogs and Ron Paul sites. I am NOT saying it's not true, just that I want to read further and can't seem to find anything. The 'rule' in the first post is what I searched, and portion of the title. Here are the search strings I tried on Google and both came back with endless blogs and such. And unless these search strings suck, or the news sites don't have their stories indexed - I also did searches on Fox News, CBS, ABC and CNN with no luck. Again, don't yell at me that I don't believe it. There's certainly enough out there that it has to be something, and that rule comes from somewhere, but I can't find it in the MSM. Oh, and before I hit submit, I just opened like 10 of the blogs, and most refer to Rev's article above in the longislandpress, or other blogs, but nothing back to the pentagon or any official sites.


Federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances

and also


Pentagon Unilaterally ‘Civil Disturbances’

jimnyc
05-18-2013, 05:10 AM
This maybe? I'm reading the text now...

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C18.txt

jimnyc
05-18-2013, 05:16 AM
Ok, my bad, I see that the link was embedded in Revs article. But the "Pentagon unilaterally"? From what I am reading, it would seem that this has all went through Congress.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/subtitle-A/part-I/chapter-18

revelarts
05-18-2013, 09:53 AM
It's the DOD jumping off of the congressional regs. It assume more than the regs.
AND the comments below do not address the facts of the 5 steps i mentioned where congress has gut the P.C. Or the executive orders by Bush -that turned into law- that took the finally authority of the National Guard away from the Governors and gave it to the President.


the DOD rule linked in the article
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-04-12/html/2013-07802.htm
Includes this which lays out the problems with the rule but the DOD assume that the comments merit no need for revision.
And appears to assume that they ALREADY have the authority.

As BillyB mentioned, just because the tyranny is written into the law doesn't make it right or lawful and definitely not constitutional.




Public Comments On Tuesday, December 28, 2010, the Department of Defense published a proposed rule (75 FR 81547) requesting public comment. Two comments were received. Below are the comments and responses. Comment #1. Comment on Proposed Rule: 32 CFR Part 182 DOD-2009-OS- 0038. The definition given in Sec. 182.3 of ``civil disturbance'' is overly broad and encompasses any number of situations that the Legislature and DOD entities might not have in mind at the time of drafting this rule. It is my recommendation that specific reference be made to DOD Directive 3025.12 within Sec. 182.3 to allay any possible misreading of 32 CFR part 182. If Posse Comitatus is going to be suspended in times other than those specifically authorized by the Constitution, Congress must act to make the language clear and unambiguous. In addition, the definition of ``Emergency Authority'' in Sec. 182.3 and DOD 3025.12 is unclear. In what sort of a civil emergency can prior Presidential authorization be ``impossible'' to obtain. These two definitions read together give an extraordinary degree of latitude to DOD entities within the borders of the United States. Finally, I question whether a rule is the appropriate venue for an expansion of this nature. Perhaps this is a task best left to congress for full public scrutiny and debate. Should this really be a task left to the DOD to make a rule essentially gutting 10 U.S.C.A. 331-4? Despite the fact that this rule has received certification by the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA), I seriously question whether there are not significant implications for its enactment under Executive Order 13132 (Federalism). If it is left to the DOD to determine when force is necessary, absent a Presidential order and absent the cooperation of local authorities, Posse Comitatus is for all intents and purposes at an end. DoD Response: No action required. This instruction cancels DoD Directive 3025.12. ``Civil disturbance'' is an approved definition in the DoD Dictionary and makes no reference to the Posse Comitatus Act being ``suspended.'' Also this rule does not make reference to the suspension of Posse Comitatus Act. It lists those actions that are permissible and restricted under the Act. The author also recommends that Congress, rather than DoD, make the language ``clear and unambiguous.'' Comment #2. The Posse Comitatus Act, 18 U.S.C. 1385, clearly applies to National Guard troops which have been federalized and are deployed under Title 10 authority within the United States. However, the courts have not definitively ruled on whether the Act applies to troops deployed under Title 32, and generally it is assumed that the act does not apply under those circumstances. If Sec. 182.4(b) of this rule is meant to clearly state that the National Guard is, in fact, to act in compliance with the restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act while in support of civilian law enforcement officials while deployed under Title 32 authority as well as Title 10, then this is a welcome clarification of DoD policy. DoD Response: No action required. National Guard forces operating under Title 32 are under State control, and the Posse Comitatus Act would not apply. State law governs what actions State officials and State National Guard forces may take.....

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
05-18-2013, 12:01 PM
. Or the executive orders by Bush -that turned into law- that took the finally authority of the National Guard away from the Governors and gave it to the President.


the DOD rule linked in the article
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-04-12/html/2013-07802.htm

Includes this which lays out the problems with the rule but the DOD assume that the comments merit no need for revision.
And appears to assume that they ALREADY have the authority.

As BillyB mentioned, just because the tyranny is written into the law doesn't make it right or lawful and definitely not constitutional.

Obama's Executive orders are law and many of those are absolutely Unconstitutional, end runs around Congress.
What we are seein here in his 8 years is the remaking of our form of government with an overriding powerful head, namely the President. It is the creation of a dictatorship conducted by stealth and in slow motion. That so as to not arouse the people in mass to fight it.
Frog in the pot of water on the burner set to low. The leftists share the love of "a death by a thousand cuts" with their muslim allies. -Tyr

revelarts
05-18-2013, 12:50 PM
Obama's Executive orders are law and many of those are absolutely Unconstitutional, end runs around Congress.
What we are seein here in his 8 years is the remaking of our form of government with an overriding powerful head, namely the President. It is the creation of a dictatorship conducted by stealth and in slow motion. That so as to not arouse the people in mass to fight it.
Frog in the pot of water on the burner set to low. The leftists share the love of "a death by a thousand cuts" with their muslim allies. -Tyr

Tyr Yes Obama is part of the issue but the pot started biling long before Obama even got to D.C..
GWB did his part as well as Clinton. Waco anyone

aboutime
05-18-2013, 02:37 PM
Note to all who read this and are convinced the Pentagon is able to work...Unilaterally.

WRONG!

The Pentagon, and the military leadership CANNOT, and DO NOT work unilaterally in any way without the Authorization of the JCS and the White House.
Nothing gets done until the PHONY leader at the top, who controls the JCS says so.

So. If any of those actions take place, or occur...as suggested by the title of this thread.

ONLY Obama has to power to make it happen.

So. What should that tell you about how He...Obama is convinced he is another HUGO CHAVEZ or ASSAD????

Our military does nothing without ORDERS. And Only Obama authorizes whether those orders are carried out.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
05-18-2013, 08:52 PM
Tyr Yes Obama is part of the issue but the pot started biling long before Obama even got to D.C..
GWB did his part as well as Clinton. Waco anyone

I agree it started long before obama but now we are dealing with that bastard. And that scum has nothing but utter contempt for us and our way of life. As a muslim he also seeks our destruction.
Remember who the bastard said he would side with... while rememBering that he is also the CIC....-Tyr

revelarts
02-28-2015, 12:53 AM
bump