One of Dutch anti-Islam film producers Converts to Islam, visits Mecca

[jafar00]

Now here's something positive to report.

There is hope for some of you rabid anti-Islam posters yet :)


By Omar BihmidineMorocco World NewsSidi Ifni, April 22, 2013Arnoud van Doorn, a former member of the Dutch right-wing Freedom Party, recently converted to Islam, regretting his contribution to the producion of the Dutch anti-prophet film.According to the Saudi ‘Oukad’ newspaper, Van Doorn visited the holy Prophet’s Mosque and wept in repentance for his ‘evil’ deeds.“I used to belong to the party that shows stiff hostility towards Islam and the prophet Mohamed, “he was quoted by the newspaper as saying.“Muslims’ reactions against the anti-Islam film induced me to seek the truth about Islam,” he added, shedding tears of remorse.While Van Doorn castigated his former party for offending Islam in general and prophet Mohamed in particular, he decided to renounce his past leanings to embrace Islam and defend Muslims.“Reading about Islam has totally changed my previous hatred-laden attitude towards this peaceful religion,” he told the newspaper.During his visit to Mecca, Van Doorn met and interviewed several Sheikhs, including Sheikh Ali Hudhaifi and Sheikh Salah Budair.At present, he intends to pay a visit to other holy places and meet more Muslims from different corners of the Muslim world.I am going to Mecca to perform Umrah, and I will soon visit more pure parts,” Van Doorn said after visiting the holy city of Medina.
http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2013/04/87963/one-of-dutch-anti-islam-film-producers-converts-to-islam/


لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (2:256)

[Marcus Aurelius]

How is converting to a false religion, based on the rantings of an illiterate pedophile a 'positive'?

[Great warrior]

That's great for him. I think his hate party was what God guided him to for his own research.

How is converting to a false religion, based on the rantings of an illiterate pedophile a 'positive'?

You are mislead (http://rasoulallah.net/index.php/en/articles/category/1077).

[Marcus Aurelius]

That's great for him. I think his hate party was what God guided him to for his own research.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=634124#post634124)
How is converting to a false religion, based on the rantings of an illiterate pedophile a 'positive'?



You are mislead (http://rasoulallah.net/index.php/en/articles/category/1077).

Hardly.

[Noir]

Well there we go, today the world has one more moron, shame.

[Drummond]

Well there we go, today the world has one more moron, shame.

I'm not one for being overly judgmental of newcomers, Noir. Let's see how this pans out first.

[aboutime]

And of course. For jafar. Nobody here knows, or suspects that this Dutch film producer was silently convinced to

either convert to Islam, or remain a target for those who SWORE to make certain he would DIE, unless he repented,

and RECANTED on his claims about Islam?????

Guess none of us had such thoughts. And Especially...not YOU Jafar!

That kind of thinking would be DISHONEST, and seen as Anti-Islam...for jafar.

[Drummond]

Now here's something positive to report.

There is hope for some of you rabid anti-Islam posters yet :)


http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2013/04/87963/one-of-dutch-anti-islam-film-producers-converts-to-islam/


لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (2:256)


Well, Jafar, I'm not sure if the capacity to totally and completely ignore truths that stare you in the face deserves any form of praise. The evidence of the thoroughly pernicious nature of Islam is - to put it mildly - overwhelming.

Just how many people in the world will have to die before the truth is accepted without further doubt ?? Haven't enough died ALREADY ??

I really don't know what to say to you, that isn't mind-numbingly obvious.

[Drummond]

That's great for him. I think his hate party was what God guided him to for his own research.


You are mislead (http://rasoulallah.net/index.php/en/articles/category/1077).

That's very amusing - thank you.

Welcome to the forum, by the way. I suspect that you'll be livening things up a bit. I look forward to our future 'jousts'.

Kicking off with the first lot ...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080625055329AAz3dXB


One of Muhammad (pbuh)’s many, many wives was Aisha, which I believe to have been 6 or 7 when they were married. I read somewhere else that she stayed with her parents until she was 8 or 9 and then the marriage was consummated.

This is a sick, perverse act of paedophilia. If Muhammad were around today, he would certainly have some explaining to do. I appreciate that men would marry younger women in those days, but 7 years old!?

According to Hadith 2127 in book 4 of the collection of Sahih Muslim, Muhammad beat Aisha. Is this man REALLY a role model for all men across the world? Or a wife-beating paedophile?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia


Muhammad was a pedophile, even according to the most stringent clinical definition of pedophilia - the DSM-IV-TR:

A. Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies caused marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Muhammad was engaged to Aisha when she was only 6 year old and he was 51, and consummated the marriage while she was still pre-pubescent, aged 9 lunar years old. Thus he fulfilled all three requirements needed for a positive diagnosis.

http://www.sillyallah.com/2007/10/mohammads-pedophilia.html


This ended up taking a number of posts. Also, I've forgotten a Quran passage, which I have added below. This is from Sura 65 on rules for divorce. Notice below that you can divorce a woman who hasn't menstruated yet ("not had their courses"). Well, how can you divorce a prepubescent woman if you didn't marry a prepubescent woman in the first place? I think the reader can fill in the blanks.

65:4 And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

When you read about Mohammad's own pedophilia below, you'll understand why he made sure to have the above verse "revealed" to him ....

By the way, when researching that last site, I came across this link. I regard its contents as useful ...

http://www.sillyallah.com/2007/10/fallacies-and-dishonesty.html

In passing, by the way, and in noting what appears to be a pro-Islamic stance .. could you tell us how you feel about supporting terrorism ?

I ask because we already have one pro-Islamist here who admits to supporting Hamas.

Do you have any preferred group yourself ? Hamas again ? Islamic Jihad, maybe Al Qaeda ? Any thoughts you'd care to share along those lines ?

[Marcus Aurelius]

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (2:256)




008.039
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do. Seems like Allah orders forced conversions after all.



009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.Convert to Islam, or be subjugated, is what is taught in the Qur'aan.



009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.Again, forced conversion to Islam is taught in the Qur'aan.



009.011
YUSUFALI: But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.
PICKTHAL: But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge.
SHAKIR: But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.Certainly Mohammed is not talking about being brethren in Christianity, or Judeisum, but Islam... forced conversions again.



Book 001, Number 0033:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah. More forced conversions from Hadith.



Bukhari (8:387) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/008-sbt.php#001.008.387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'" More forced conversion language in the Qur'aan.



Do I 'really' need to go on, Jahil?

[jafar00]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.

[aboutime]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.


JAFAR. Or.....you simply could have said the expected, which you tried to cover up here.

YOUR WORDS FOLLOW:
"This is another fine excuse not to admit my lies, cheating, screaming, crying, and wallowing in despair...DIDN'T FOOL ANYONE"

Right jafar????

[Marcus Aurelius]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most entrenched into Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Christians.

[Marcus Aurelius]

JAFAR. Or.....you simply could have said the expected, which you tried to cover up here.

YOUR WORDS FOLLOW:
"This is another fine excuse not to admit my lies, cheating, screaming, crying, and wallowing in despair...DIDN'T FOOL ANYONE"

Right jafar????

I wonder why Jahil chose not to address all the Qur'aan passages and the Hadith I posted, showing the reality of forced conversion teaching in Islam?

[jimnyc]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.

I have no beef in this battle, but am curious! When you say they see the truth eventually, what do you mean? That they see the truth about Islam as a peaceful religion, unlike the radicals and extremists? Or that Islam is the truth?

Other than that, converts from either side don't impress me. We have Imams converting away, and probably the same level converting to Islam. That's an individual decision and I don't think speaks for others or any particular religion.

[Thunderknuckles]

I'm not buying it. Either he did this to get the death sentence off his head or he plans to burrow deep inside to expose radical Islam in another film to be released....or maybe both.

[aboutime]

I'm not buying it. Either he did this to get the death sentence off his head or he plans to burrow deep inside to expose radical Islam in another film to be released....or maybe both.


Thunderknuckles. I do believe that fellow is performing a nationwide PROCTOLOGY exam...free of charge, to save his own life.

[stevecanuck]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.

Jafar, I missed the names of the historians who says that muslims didn't invade the lands of those who they conquered. Could you please repeat it? Also, the titles of the books they wrote would be helpful. Thanks.

[aboutime]

Thunderknuckles. I do believe that fellow is performing a nationwide PROCTOLOGY exam...free of charge, to save his own life.


And...I should add this...for example.....

Practices like this....


http://youtu.be/nOG-kkDGaRc

[Robert A Whit]

Now here's something positive to report.

There is hope for some of you rabid anti-Islam posters yet :)


http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2013/04/87963/one-of-dutch-anti-islam-film-producers-converts-to-islam/


لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (2:256)


How much faith do you put into a Dutchman that did what he admits he did and now claims he changed his mind?

I tend to suspect he still is a marked man by the violent Muslims.

[jafar00]

How much faith do you put into a Dutchman that did what he admits he did and now claims he changed his mind?

I tend to suspect he still is a marked man by the violent Muslims.

Since the Taliban/Al Qaeda types don't actually follow Islam, I am inclined to agree with you. The rest of us who may have been upset or angry about the film would all forgive him. When you become a Muslim, all of your past sins are forgiven.

[Robert A Whit]

Since the Taliban/Al Qaeda types don't actually follow Islam, I am inclined to agree with you. The rest of us who may have been upset or angry about the film would all forgive him. When you become a Muslim, all of your past sins are forgiven.

It is unfortunate that you get so little attention when attacked. So much anger when you are nice. :laugh:

[Marcus Aurelius]

Since the Taliban/Al Qaeda types don't actually follow Islam, I am inclined to agree with you. The rest of us who may have been upset or angry about the film would all forgive him. When you become a Muslim, all of your past sins are forgiven.

back to the old stand-by "they aren't 'really' Islamic" I see.

[Drummond]

Since the Taliban/Al Qaeda types don't actually follow Islam, I am inclined to agree with you. The rest of us who may have been upset or angry about the film would all forgive him. When you become a Muslim, all of your past sins are forgiven.

Islam is a very 'forgiving' religion, is it ?

... and the penalty for Apostacy, is ... ??

I think the 'moral' of this is .. if you're a good Muslim, life can be good.

If you're less than an ideal follower, it can be hell on earth.

That said, of course, you first have to survive to a reasonable age. If you happen to be a kid in the hands of terrorists strapping bombs on to you, this doesn't exactly work out too well. Then, of course, there are those who lob bombs around, or get overly interested in piloting lessons. Their life expectancies don't do too well either.

Of course, if you're not a Muslim, you're fair game for all sorts of outrages.

Mind you, even if you ARE one, that's still true. 9/11, 7/7 ... the terrorists attacking didn't exactly take a straw poll to try and ensure that those attacks didn't kill Muslims.

... H'm. So maybe, Jafar, whether you're a Muslim or not, it's Islam that'll blight your existence ?

Makes sense, doesn't it, Jafar ? So, maybe you should agree with me that Islam badly needs all possible opposition mounted against it ?

[jafar00]

Islam is a very 'forgiving' religion, is it ?

... and the penalty for Apostacy, is ... ??

To spend eternity in hellfire.


Jafar ? So, maybe you should agree with me that Islam badly needs all possible opposition mounted against it ?

Why?

[NightTrain]

I have to admit :

Van Doom is a pretty catchy name for a suicide bomber.

[taft2012]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.

Let's put aside the social and political implications and get down to the brass tacks of what this conversion truly means:

It means this individual has made a conscious rejection of Jesus Christ as the Messiah, the Son of God, who came to earth to die for our sins.

Forget that this filmmaker became a nutter, this is truly the core of what this conversion means.

I'm sure Christ is open-minded about those who are born and raised in different faiths, and is accepting of all men of good will ... but of those who have accepted, and then rejected Him?

I wouldn't want to be at the Pearly Gates having to explain this.

[Drummond]

To spend eternity in hellfire.

There isn't a more 'immediate' punishment ?

Try this ...

http://www.tigchurch.org/THE%20PUNISHMENT%20FOR%20APOSTASY%20FROM%20ISLAM.h tm

The contents of this link are way too long to reproduce in detail here. However, the conclusion is stark:


Look today at the Islamic world, we see it backwards, regressive, and primitive. The poor people who have grown up into Islam, who have had to adopt this dark system, are kept in bondage. It is no wonder that their countries continue to regress since freedom of thought, freedom of creativity, freedom of expression is stifled. We see the Muslim states falling further behind the rest of the world in areas like education, science, and the arts. The more Islamic a state becomes, the farther it regresses.

Muhammad taught that apostates are to be murdered, wherever they are. This death sentence can be carried out wherever these Muslims are found, either in a Muslim country, or in a non-Muslim country. The Quran supports this notion, and both the Hadith and Sirat establish this portion of Islamic law.



Why?

You DON'T think Islam needs all possible opposition mounted against it ?

Well ... you get a teensy clue from the quote above as to why it DOES need that.

But of course, there's the fact of all the stinking terrorism it breeds. Or, its aggressive expansionism, mixed in with an intolerance of other religions or other standards. The 'accept me as I am, defer to all my demands, or else' attitude they carry with them, regardless of where they are.

There's also the little matter of their insistence upon applying Sharia Law, whether OR NOT the host country is willing to recognise it.

... and you ask me 'WHY' ? Seriously ??

[aboutime]

Facts do not lie. The man is still ALIVE because he converted.

If he had refused to convert. Most all of us know. We more than likely would have been reading
about his Untimely Death at the hands of Islamists, and the much bragged about 'Religion of Peace'.

Do you agree jafar?

[tournesol]

Now here's something positive to report.

There is hope for some of you rabid anti-Islam posters yet :)


http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2013/04/87963/one-of-dutch-anti-islam-film-producers-converts-to-islam/


لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (2:256)


He was nuts and he stays nuts, he's only at the other end of the spectrum of nuttery now.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.

Amazing.. The Koran is quoted to you proving your point false and you still insist that your point was correct.:bang3:

Did you write your own Koran Jafar?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=634207#post634207)
You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.



Amazing.. The Koran is quoted to you proving your point false and you still insist that your point was correct.:bang3:

Did you write your own Koran Jafar?

He had to have. He essentially just said that Allah and Mohammed are not 'really' Islamic.

[aboutime]

He had to have. He essentially just said that Allah and Mohammed are not 'really' Islamic.


Notice he has never denied how Mo is not a Pedo???

[Marcus Aurelius]

Notice he has never denied how Mo is not a Pedo???

His excuse was that being a pedophile was normal back then, so it was okay.

[jafar00]

Let's put aside the social and political implications and get down to the brass tacks of what this conversion truly means:

It means this individual has made a conscious rejection of Jesus Christ as the Messiah, the Son of God, who came to earth to die for our sins.

Forget that this filmmaker became a nutter, this is truly the core of what this conversion means.

I'm sure Christ is open-minded about those who are born and raised in different faiths, and is accepting of all men of good will ... but of those who have accepted, and then rejected Him?

I wouldn't want to be at the Pearly Gates having to explain this.

You really don't understand Muslims then. We love Jesus (as) and we can't wait until he returns to lead us in prayer as our Imam.


There isn't a more 'immediate' punishment ?

Try this ...

http://www.tigchurch.org/THE%20PUNISHMENT%20FOR%20APOSTASY%20FROM%20ISLAM.h tm

The contents of this link are way too long to reproduce in detail here. However, the conclusion is stark:

I don't care what a little Iranian church in Toronto says. It's still wrong. As I have argued in another thread, there is no worldly punishment.


You DON'T think Islam needs all possible opposition mounted against it ?

Well ... you get a teensy clue from the quote above as to why it DOES need that.

But of course, there's the fact of all the stinking terrorism it breeds. Or, its aggressive expansionism, mixed in with an intolerance of other religions or other standards. The 'accept me as I am, defer to all my demands, or else' attitude they carry with them, regardless of where they are.

There's also the little matter of their insistence upon applying Sharia Law, whether OR NOT the host country is willing to recognise it.

... and you ask me 'WHY' ? Seriously ??

If the above is an example of the lies you have been reading, I'm not surprised that you are so against us. You haven't the slightest idea about Islam because you have been learning about it from fools who's agenda is to spread falsehood about Islam to make themselves look better.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...You haven't the slightest idea about Islam because you have been learning about it from fools who's agenda is to spread falsehood about Islam to make themselves look better.

describes you to a t.

[taft2012]

You really don't understand Muslims then. We love Jesus (as) and we can't wait until he returns to lead us in prayer as our Imam.
.

You really don't understand Christians. Jesus is God.

And if you think Jesus is going to come back as your imam and tell you to molest children and kill infidels, you're nuts.

[Marcus Aurelius]

You really don't understand Muslims then. We love Jesus (as) and we can't wait until he returns to lead us in prayer as our Imam.

wow... you don't even know your own religion... sad.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/ch06_the_muslim_jesus.htm


The Subordinate Of The Mahdi
At this time, Jesus descends to meet the army of the Mahdi which will be preparing for battle. It will be just before the time of prayer.
Muslims will still be preparing themselves for the battle drawing up the ranks. Certainly, the time of prayer shall come and then Jesus, son of Mary would descend. 2
Based on the relevant Hadith, Islamic scholars seem to be in universal agreement that the Mahdi will ask Jesus to lead the prayers. Jesus will then refuse this request and will defer instead to the Mahdi to lead the prayer.
The Messenger of Allah said: A section of my people will not cease fighting for the truth and will prevail until the Day of resurrection. He said: Jesus son of Mary would then descend and their [Muslims’] commander [the Mahdi] would invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some. 3
The important element here that needs to be stressed is that Jesus will then pray behind the Mahdi as a direct statement regarding Jesus’ inferiority of rank to the Mahdi.
Jesus Christ will decline the offer and invitation of Imam Mahdi to come and lead the Muslims in prayer, and say his prayer behind Imam Mahdi. 4 Jesus (peace be upon him) will come and will perform the obligatory prayers behind the Mahdi and follow him. 5 (Jesus) will be following the Mahdi, the master of the time, and that is why he will be offering his prayers behind him. 6

[aboutime]

wow... you don't even know your own religion... sad.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/ch06_the_muslim_jesus.htm

[B]



Marcus. THAT is how FALSE PROPHETS Operate. They claim to have every answer, and know what is good for others. Until someone points out the ERROR of their ways with FACTS.

[jimnyc]

I don't care what a little Iranian church in Toronto says. It's still wrong. As I have argued in another thread, there is no worldly punishment.

Many, many, many Muslims disagree with you regarding Sharia law and whether apostates get certain punishments, this from a recent poll:

Views on punishments such as chopping off thieves' hands or decreeing death for apostates is more evenly divided in much of the Islamic world, although more than three-quarters of Muslims in South Asia say they are justified.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40517-Many-in-Muslim-world-want-sharia-as-law-of-land&p=634868#post634868

So while YOU say there is no worldly punishment, many other Muslims disagree AND the practice is still in use.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=635040#post635040)

I don't care what a little Iranian church in Toronto says. It's still wrong. As I have argued in another thread, there is no worldly punishment.


Many, many, many Muslims disagree with you regarding Sharia law and whether apostates get certain punishments, this from a recent poll:

Views on punishments such as chopping off thieves' hands or decreeing death for apostates is more evenly divided in much of the Islamic world, although more than three-quarters of Muslims in South Asia say they are justified.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40517-Many-in-Muslim-world-want-sharia-as-law-of-land&p=634868#post634868

So while YOU say there is no worldly punishment, many other Muslims disagree AND the practice is still in use.

Come on Jim... who knows more about Islam? The Quar'aan, or Jahil? Mohammed, or Jahil? 75% of the Muslims in South Asia, or Jahil?

[NightTrain]

If the above is an example of the lies you have been reading, I'm not surprised that you are so against us. You haven't the slightest idea about Islam because you have been learning about it from fools who's agenda is to spread falsehood about Islam to make themselves look better.


Actually, we are against Islam because you animals enjoy killing as many random innocent people as you can.

And the rest of you muzzies that aren't actively trying to kill civilians in brutal attacks continue to sit back spouting the same lame bullshit that we've heard since 9/11 : "Oh, I don't support terrorism. Well, maybe I do, if they're a Jew. Or if you have military here kicking ass because we blew up a bunch of your civilians."

Your tired, weak bullshit doesn't fly. You fully support terrorism, if nothing else then it's by your unwillingness to step up and openly and harshly criticize the Imams that send more muzzies to kill.

I haven't heard you speak of your Australian Imam that was inspirational to the Boston Marathon muzzies.... why is that, Jafar? Is he your hero, too?

Why haven't you raised hell about that fucker?

Walk the walk. You muzzies never do, be the example and save the world.

[Drummond]

I don't care what a little Iranian church in Toronto says. It's still wrong. As I have argued in another thread, there is no worldly punishment.

Jafar, be honest. You'd rather not care about anything said by anybody, if it helps prove the TRUTH about Islam.


If the above is an example of the lies you have been reading, I'm not surprised that you are so against us. You haven't the slightest idea about Islam because you have been learning about it from fools who's agenda is to spread falsehood about Islam to make themselves look better.

Should the same be said about a certain other thread on this forum, which details terrorist atrocities meted out by Islamists ON A DAILY BASIS ??

Perhaps the various reports are ALL false ? None ever happened, as described ? NO Muslim EVER perpetrated ANY of the murders described ?

... and 9/11 was a Hollywood fiction ?

[jafar00]

You really don't understand Christians. Jesus is God.

And if you think Jesus is going to come back as your imam and tell you to molest children and kill infidels, you're nuts.

So Jesus(as) is his own father? The one he often referred to in the 3rd person?

For Example...

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

If Jesus (as) is God he would have said.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to myself, for I am greater than me. (John 14:28)

Yep. Doesn't make sense.

You disrespect him by making him out to be something he is not.

[NightTrain]

Curiously, Jafar neglected to respond to my post.

[jimnyc]

Curiously, Jafar neglected to respond to my post.

Mine neither. I learned that in high school, something about the path of least resistance? :)

[jimnyc]

So Jesus(as) is his own father? The one he often referred to in the 3rd person?

For Example...

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

If Jesus (as) is God he would have said.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to myself, for I am greater than me. (John 14:28)

Yep. Doesn't make sense.

You disrespect him by making him out to be something he is not.

For someone who continually tells everyone they cannot properly read the Quran, including others that speak Arabic, it's amazing that you would claim to be superior in reading the Bible as well. If the Pope, or all of the priests we could find say the same thing, would you then concede you are incorrect? Or would you say they are just not real Christians?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You really don't understand Christians. Jesus is God.

And if you think Jesus is going to come back as your imam and tell you to molest children and kill infidels, you're nuts.

Islam holds that gays are to be put to death yet gays supporting the socialist agenda so often support Islam too. Proving that this insanity is spiritually inspired by powerful voices working against Christianity.
Jafar's belief that Jesus coming back as an Imam is QUITE laughable!
AS IS ISLAM'S DENIAL OF CHRIST'S DIVINITY..... And Islam nations having Sharia law outlawing bibles being brought in and often giving a death sentence to anybody doing so.. They are completely anti-Christian..TYR

[jafar00]

Curiously, Jafar neglected to respond to my post.

I'm sorry. Did you have a question embedded somewhere in your post or was it just an insane rant filled with abuse? I tend to stop reading when someone starts with calling me an animal who likes killing random innocent people.


For someone who continually tells everyone they cannot properly read the Quran, including others that speak Arabic, it's amazing that you would claim to be superior in reading the Bible as well. If the Pope, or all of the priests we could find say the same thing, would you then concede you are incorrect? Or would you say they are just not real Christians?

So, please explain why Jesus (as) continually referred to "the father" in 3rd person when Christians insist that he is the father that he was referring to?

[NightTrain]

I'm sorry. Did you have a question embedded somewhere in your post or was it just an insane rant filled with abuse? I tend to stop reading when someone starts with calling me an animal who likes killing random innocent people.


Sorry that I'm pissed that you muzzies love to kill innocents.


My question was why you haven't done anything to curb Muzzie Madness in Australia.

The Boston Bombers were influenced by an Australian muslim cleric.

Why aren't you raising hell about a muzzie 'perverting' islam right there in Australia?

[red states rule]

You can all lie, cheat, scream, cry or just wallow in despair if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that even the most venomously opposed to Islam can and do see the truth eventually and many of those become Muslims.

Yep Jafar they can see the "truth" under the right circumstances



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch8uCOPbH7I

[jafar00]

Sorry that I'm pissed that you muzzies love to kill innocents.


My question was why you haven't done anything to curb Muzzie Madness in Australia.

The Boston Bombers were influenced by an Australian muslim cleric.

Why aren't you raising hell about a muzzie 'perverting' islam right there in Australia?

I work in finance, not law enforcement. Plus I've never heard of this guy they mentioned in the US press.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I work in finance, not law enforcement. Plus I've never heard of this guy they mentioned in the US press.

Well now you have so were was your condemnation of the guy? Thats right he being a muslim cleric you have no condemnation. Mighty convenient there Jafar. He inspired a savage murderous attack that also murdered a little 8 year old boy yet you uttered not a single word of condemnation. Muslims have made an avowed enemy of me. They do not know who they pissed off,some of us never stop. I never forgive an enemy and once I actually start to fight I never relent. makadia emotoi' nagai enakui...... -Tyr

[Marcus Aurelius]

So Jesus(as) is his own father? The one he often referred to in the 3rd person?

For Example...

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

If Jesus (as) is God he would have said.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to myself, for I am greater than me. (John 14:28)

Yep. Doesn't make sense.

You disrespect him by making him out to be something he is not.

It's called the Holy Trinity, dumb ass.

[Marcus Aurelius]

So, please explain why Jesus (as) continually referred to "the father" in 3rd person when Christians insist that he is the father that he was referring to?

you know little about your own religion, and nothing of Christianity.

http://bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html


Matthew 1:23 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Matthew%201:23&version=NKJV) - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Isaiah%209:6&version=NKJV) - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Isaiah%2043:10,11&version=NKJV) - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Revelation%201:17-18&version=NKJV); Revelation 2:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Revelation%202:8&version=NKJV) - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Isaiah%2044:6&version=NKJV) - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=2+Peter%201:1&version=NKJV) (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Isaiah%2044:24&version=NKJV) - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%201:3&version=NKJV); Colossians 1:16 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Colossians%201:16&version=NKJV) - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%201:1&version=NKJV) - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%201:14&version=NKJV) - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%205:17,18&version=NKJV) - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%205:23&version=NKJV) - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%208:24&version=NKJV) - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%208:58&version=NKJV) - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%2010:30-33&version=NKJV) - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%2014:6-7&version=NKJV) - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%2014:9-11&version=NKJV) - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%2020:28&version=NKJV) - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Acts%204:12&version=NKJV) - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Acts%2020:28&version=NKJV) - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Revelation%201:5,6&version=NKJV); Revelation 5:8-9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Revelation%205:8-9&version=NKJV) - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Philippians%202:5-7&version=NKJV) - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1+Timothy%203:16&version=NKJV) - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Titus%202:13&version=NKJV) - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Hebrews%201:8,9&version=NKJV) - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=2+John%201:7&version=NKJV) - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Revelation%201:8&version=NKJV) - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Revelation%2022:13&version=NKJV) - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Revelation%2022:16&version=NKJV) - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”


Hebrews 2:17,18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Hebrews%202:17,18&version=NKJV) - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15,16 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Hebrews%204:15,16&version=NKJV) - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1+Peter%202:24&version=NKJV) - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”

He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%2015:13&version=NKJV) - “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.”
Romans 5:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Romans%205:8&version=NKJV) - “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

[jimnyc]

So, please explain why Jesus (as) continually referred to "the father" in 3rd person when Christians insist that he is the father that he was referring to?

Someone answered as I would have, minus the dumbass part of course!

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40449-One-of-Dutch-anti-Islam-film-producers-Converts-to-Islam-visits-Mecca&p=635466#post635466

[aboutime]

Someone answered as I would have, minus the dumbass part of course!

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40449-One-of-Dutch-anti-Islam-film-producers-Converts-to-Islam-visits-Mecca&p=635466#post635466


jimnyc. As usual, and as expected. jafar continues with his trick...distraction questions. Never honestly answering anything. Which is how Liars, and False Prophets always work. Change the subject, or try to embarrass, and the responsibility goes away through forgetfulness. OR...SO jafar Hopes.

[Marcus Aurelius]

For someone who continually tells everyone they cannot properly read the Quran, including others that speak Arabic, it's amazing that you would claim to be superior in reading the Bible as well. If the Pope, or all of the priests we could find say the same thing, would you then concede you are incorrect? Or would you say they are just not real Christians?

Didn't you know, Jim, that Jahil is an expert in ancient Hebrew(old testament) and Greek(new testament)? How else could he properly interpret the Bible? That is, if he holds himself to the same standards he holds us infidels to.

[aboutime]

Didn't you know, Jim, that Jahil is an expert in ancient Hebrew(old testament) and Greek(new testament)? How else could he properly interpret the Bible? That is, if he holds himself to the same standards he holds us infidels to.


Jim and Marcus. jafar is SUPERIOR to everyone else...in his tiny mind. Just ask him.

[jafar00]

Someone answered as I would have, minus the dumbass part of course!

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40449-One-of-Dutch-anti-Islam-film-producers-Converts-to-Islam-visits-Mecca&p=635466#post635466

Well that didn't help explain why Jesus (as) refers to "the Father" in 3rd person all the time in the Bible.

[red states rule]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-khX9Uw0eNgk/TeM7oScmuyI/AAAAAAAAAsI/oQQjEJmAenQ/s1600/249720_1928195118538_1051994745_2163173_7679914_n. jpg

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jimnyc http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=635487#post635487)

Someone answered as I would have, minus the dumbass part of course!

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...466#post635466 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40449-One-of-Dutch-anti-Islam-film-producers-Converts-to-Islam-visits-Mecca&p=635466#post635466)



Well that didn't help explain why Jesus (as) refers to "the Father" in 3rd person all the time in the Bible.

read post 55 dumb ass. It addresses this.

[aboutime]

How comical can jafar the False Prophet get?

Someone like jafar, coming here to instruct us on the Bible and Jesus is almost equal to Pee Wee Herman telling us about Missile technology in Kindergarten class.

[Marcus Aurelius]

How comical can jafar the False Prophet get?

Someone like jafar, coming here to instruct us on the Bible and Jesus is almost equal to Pee Wee Herman telling us about Missile technology in Kindergarten class.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/37572688.jpg

[jimnyc]

Well that didn't help explain why Jesus (as) refers to "the Father" in 3rd person all the time in the Bible.

I think what you mean is that it didn't help you 'understand'. I don't expect you to understand the Holy Trinity in a few sentences, neither did I. But if you ask people to fully explain it to you as I did, and do a little reading around the 'net, I think you would understand better. I asked myself, and even you participated in this thread. If this thread and others didn't answer the question to satisfaction, then I would assume that you just don't believe in the Holy Trinity, which wouldn't be surprising, since you are not a Christian.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39772-Question-for-Christians

[aboutime]

I think what you mean is that it didn't help you 'understand'. I don't expect you to understand the Holy Trinity in a few sentences, neither did I. But if you ask people to fully explain it to you as I did, and do a little reading around the 'net, I think you would understand better. I asked myself, and even you participated in this thread. If this thread and others didn't answer the question to satisfaction, then I would assume that you just don't believe in the Holy Trinity, which wouldn't be surprising, since you are not a Christian.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39772-Question-for-Christians


jimnyc: There is a highly visible Double Standard being presented here by jafar. He ignores us when we question anything about his religious beliefs...namely the Muslim/Islamic kinds. Yet he comes and demands that we....as Christians MUST always respond to his Double-Standard based questions as a means of Patronizing anyone who isn't Muslim, or Islamic.
Actually. jafar is, as I have been saying for a long time...a False Prophet, hiding behind his pretend life, claiming he loves some Non Muslims when the truth always manages to leak out...and his Hatred, with support for those who perform terroristic actions is always JUST LURKING behind jafar's CROSSED FINGERS...he holds behind his back...with the knife. Ready to attack anyone who dares to disagree with him, or provides proof...he cannot dispute.

[red states rule]

jimnyc: There is a highly visible Double Standard being presented here by jafar. He ignores us when we question anything about his religious beliefs...namely the Muslim/Islamic kinds. Yet he comes and demands that we....as Christians MUST always respond to his Double-Standard based questions as a means of Patronizing anyone who isn't Muslim, or Islamic.
Actually. jafar is, as I have been saying for a long time...a False Prophet, hiding behind his pretend life, claiming he loves some Non Muslims when the truth always manages to leak out...and his Hatred, with support for those who perform terroristic actions is always JUST LURKING behind jafar's CROSSED FINGERS...he holds behind his back...with the knife. Ready to attack anyone who dares to disagree with him, or provides proof...he cannot dispute.

Jafar is like our liberal media. They are always hoping the terrorists are white guys who belong to either the Tea Party and the NRA - and are acting out of their "far right" beliefs

But when they turn out to be young Muslim men they no longer give a damn about their race and religion - they simply make excuses and blame others for provoking them to commit acts of terror

[Marcus Aurelius]

I believe Jahil's 'they're not really Muslim' mantra is an attempt to absolve himself of any spec of responsibility he might feel for the acts of people like the Marathon bombers, as a fellow Muslim. He 'knows' the Muslim world doesn't do anything about terrorists in their ranks, other than to say 'they're not really Muslim'... like that makes it all better somehow.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

John 1:1 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%201:1&version=NKJV) - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%201:14&version=NKJV) - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

Jafar , it is a very rare occurrence when one can substitute a word in a bible verse and not subvert it at all.

That verse is one such. For the word--TRUTH-- can be substituted for the word--WORD.


In the beginning was the truth, and the truth was with God, and the truth was God. 1:14 - And the truth became flesh and dwelt among us,


Islam denies TRUTH, therefore it shall be destroyed by God. Islam denies the divinity of God's Son, Jesus.
None shall escape justice, none shall escape God's judgement.

[Marcus Aurelius]

John 1:1 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%201:1&version=NKJV) - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John%201:14&version=NKJV) - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

Jafar , it is a very rare occurrence when one can substitute a word in a bible verse and not subvert it at all.

That verse is one such. For the word--TRUTH-- can be substituted for the word--WORD.


In the beginning was the truth, and the truth was with God, and the truth was God. 1:14 - And the truth became flesh and dwelt among us,


Islam denies TRUTH, therefore it shall be destroyed by God. Islam denies the divinity of God's Son, Jesus.
None shall escape justice, none shall escape God's judgement.

I gave him a couple more examples in post #55. :thumb:

[jafar00]

I think what you mean is that it didn't help you 'understand'. I don't expect you to understand the Holy Trinity in a few sentences, neither did I. But if you ask people to fully explain it to you as I did, and do a little reading around the 'net, I think you would understand better. I asked myself, and even you participated in this thread. If this thread and others didn't answer the question to satisfaction, then I would assume that you just don't believe in the Holy Trinity, which wouldn't be surprising, since you are not a Christian.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39772-Question-for-Christians

True, I don't believe in the Trinity. It is absurd that despite God saying several times that he is one and only and all powerful to say in the middle of it all that he actually has partners.

I went back to review the comment you linked and I am even more confused.



The way I explained it was that Jesus was sent in God's image, and therefore God, but I'm sure I am wrong.

So, Jesus (as) was God because he was sent in God's image and in Genesis 1:27 it says...


So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

..which suggests that we are all God according to your explanation?

It still doesn't explain why Jesus (as) referred to the father in the 3rd person which kinda contradicts the Christian concept that he was actually God, and also the son of God.

[Marcus Aurelius]

True, I don't believe in the Trinity. It is absurd that despite God saying several times that he is one and only and all powerful to say in the middle of it all that he actually has partners.

I went back to review the comment you linked and I am even more confused.



So, Jesus (as) was God because he was sent in God's image and in Genesis 1:27 it says...



..which suggests that we are all God according to your explanation?

It still doesn't explain why Jesus (as) referred to the father in the 3rd person which kinda contradicts the Christian concept that he was actually God, and also the son of God.

still pussing out and ignoring post #55 I see. typical.

[NightTrain]

True, I don't believe in the Trinity. It is absurd that despite God saying several times that he is one and only and all powerful to say in the middle of it all that he actually has partners.


Mohammed was the son of Abraham who was finally expelled out into the desert (probably doing uncivilized things like beheading people), where he experienced heat stroke and came up with the notion of Islam, which the world at large suffers even today. And every day.

[jafar00]

Mohammed was the son of Abraham who was finally expelled out into the desert (probably doing uncivilized things like beheading people), where he experienced heat stroke and came up with the notion of Islam, which the world at large suffers even today. And every day.

Actually he was the son of Abdullah ibn Abd al Mutalib. I will ignore the rest of your post. It is silly.

[red states rule]

Actually he was the son of Abdullah ibn Abd al Mutalib. I will ignore the rest of your post. It is silly.

Yea, like most Germans after WWII - nobody was a Nazi. Nobody knew anyone who was a Nazi. Nobody know about the camps. Nobody knew about the mass killings. Your are a walking billboard for that sentiment Jafar

[Marcus Aurelius]

Actually he was the son of Abdullah ibn Abd al Mutalib. I will ignore the rest of your post. It is silly.

So is Mohammed.

[jimnyc]

True, I don't believe in the Trinity. It is absurd that despite God saying several times that he is one and only and all powerful to say in the middle of it all that he actually has partners.

No point in me going further. You still are clueless as to what the Holy Trinity is if you see them as separate or "partners". That's cool though, I don't mind if you don't understand my religion. :)

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=636416#post636416)

True, I don't believe in the Trinity. It is absurd that despite God saying several times that he is one and only and all powerful to say in the middle of it all that he actually has partners.

No point in me going further. You still are clueless as to what the Holy Trinity is if you see them as separate or "partners". That's cool though, I don't mind if you don't understand my religion. :)


Let me dummy this down a bit for him...
A bowling ball has three parts... the core, the filler, and the shell. Do we say that it's three partners? Three separate pieces you bowl with? No, we refer to it a single item.

[aboutime]

Let me dummy this down a bit for him...
A bowling ball has three parts... the core, the filler, and the shell. Do we say that it's three partners? Three separate pieces you bowl with? No, we refer to it a single item.


Marcus. And, you can make it even simpler by including the THREE HOLES in the ball. All empty, but without them. The ball is useless.

[red states rule]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J5eQaHtSFJk/Tg10edKaXkI/AAAAAAAACWc/yfkbbEtPSJ4/s1600/633777258143702090-terrorists.jpg