Boy scouts ending gay ban - only for scouts

[jimnyc]

Boy Scouts proposal: let in gay youth, keep out gay adults(Reuters) - The Boy Scouts of America on Friday proposed lifting a ban on gay scouts but maintaining a prohibition on gay adults from leading troops, a compromise that attempts to end a fight that has split the century-old American institution into bitter factions.

Reaction from scouting supporters ranged from outrage to limited approval. The biggest organization in scouts, the Mormon Church, said it was studying the proposal, leaving uncertain the outcome of a May vote by scout leaders that will set policy. Gay rights groups said continuing to bar gay adults was unacceptable, but they welcomed the change for youths.

"The general feeling is that this is a bad move," which could precipitate a major crisis, A.J. Smith, president of the Association of Baptists for Scouting, wrote in a website post, attempting to summarize Baptists' views. "This is about a concerted effort to bring down a cultural icon. We must brace ourselves for the long haul on this one."

The scouts' decision is a focal point of a heated gay rights debate in the United States, where polls show public opinion is fast moving toward greater acceptance and a core of social conservatives stridently oppose such change.

In the coming months, the Supreme Court will rule on whether to strike down parts of a federal law that defines marriage as the union between a man and a woman. In 2011, the military repealed a ban on openly gay soldiers.

The Boy Scouts proposal would create a situation where a gay youth could become a scout and then be forced to resign when he becomes an adult.

Scout leaders in 2000 won a Supreme Court battle over the right to exclude gays. There are more than 2.6 million youth scouts and 1 million adults, with faith-based groups sponsoring 70 percent of scout units.

If the resolution is approved, "no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone," Deron Smith, the organization's spokesman, told Reuters.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/04/19/us-usa-boyscouts-ban-idINBRE93I0OY20130419

[Marcus Aurelius]

Our troop has been 'studying' this situation. We've yet to form a cohesive opinion.

[NightTrain]

The Boy Scouts proposal would create a situation where a gay youth could become a scout and then be forced to resign when he becomes an adult.


This is an asinine strategy.

As soon as they attempt to expel the first gay 18 year old, the Boy Scouts will be easily defeated legally when it goes to court... it was okay to be gay as a kid but not as an adult?

Nope. Won't fly.

[jimnyc]

This is an asinine strategy.

As soon as they attempt to expel the first gay 18 year old, the Boy Scouts will be easily defeated legally when it goes to court... it was okay to be gay as a kid but not as an adult?

Nope. Won't fly.

Nevermind even the gay thing for a moment - I'm just tired of the public and courts and what not, telling private groups and such what they can and cannot do. The group should be free to make whatever decision THEY like, it's THEIR group. Similar with Augusta National, where there were always demands to allow women. I don't disagree, but you can't DEMAND it, it's a private club!

[Marcus Aurelius]

Nevermind even the gay thing for a moment - I'm just tired of the public and courts and what not, telling private groups and such what they can and cannot do. The group should be free to make whatever decision THEY like, it's THEIR group. Similar with Augusta National, where there were always demands to allow women. I don't disagree, but you can't DEMAND it, it's a private club!

The only problem with that, is that 'gay' is more and more becoming a 'protected class', like race, creed, ethnicity, etc.

Take the example of the florist I recently heard. She had a gay couple as regular customers for many years. When they came to her to order flowers for their 'wedding', she politely refused, stating her relationship with Jesus Christ. They were naturally disappointed, but accepted her refusal. The 'state' however, stepped in and is suing her for violation of non-discrimination laws, which in her state include 'gay' as a protected class.

I have no problem with gay people. One of my best friends in college was gay. I know people now who are gay. Their business, not mine. However, I am not sure I agree with the idea that I or anyone else should be forced to violate their religious or moral beliefs to accommodate a gay person or couple in this manner. Slippery slope.

[jimnyc]

The only problem with that, is that 'gay' is more and more becoming a 'protected class', like race, creed, ethnicity, etc.

Take the example of the florist I recently heard. She had a gay couple as regular customers for many years. When they came to her to order flowers for their 'wedding', she politely refused, stating her relationship with Jesus Christ. They were naturally disappointed, but accepted her refusal. The 'state' however, stepped in and is suing her for violation of non-discrimination laws, which in her state include 'gay' as a protected class.

I have no problem with gay people. One of my best friends in college was gay. I know people now who are gay. Their business, not mine. However, I am not sure I agree with the idea that I or anyone else should be forced to violate their religious or moral beliefs to accommodate a gay person or couple in this manner. Slippery slope.

Those are businesses dealing with the public. I still think they should be able to do business with who they please, and who they don't want to - as a customer can pick and choose where they shop. But with that aside, the Boy Scouts, Augusta and other places are private clubs.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Great. Now we can just let the young boys explore more than just nature. We can see that they get to team up out in the woods and explore gay sex too.
Isn't liberalism put into practice just a wonderful and delicious slice of a shitpie!?? -Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

Nevermind even the gay thing for a moment - I'm just tired of the public and courts and what not, telling private groups and such what they can and cannot do. The group should be free to make whatever decision THEY like, it's THEIR group. Similar with Augusta National, where there were always demands to allow women. I don't disagree, but you can't DEMAND it, it's a private club!

Well, I'm inclined to argue on this point. Boy Scout of America are not an entirely private group. I don't see the issue here: They're boys, they're Americans- that's it. Why do you even need to know whether they're gay or not? Maybe getting some form of discipline might get them to drop all the false femininity going around. God, that needs to die a horrible death.

I mean, gay is fine, but be a damn man about it, is all I ask.


The only problem with that, is that 'gay' is more and more becoming a 'protected class', like race, creed, ethnicity, etc.

Take the example of the florist I recently heard. She had a gay couple as regular customers for many years. When they came to her to order flowers for their 'wedding', she politely refused, stating her relationship with Jesus Christ. They were naturally disappointed, but accepted her refusal. The 'state' however, stepped in and is suing her for violation of non-discrimination laws, which in her state include 'gay' as a protected class.

I have no problem with gay people. One of my best friends in college was gay. I know people now who are gay. Their business, not mine. However, I am not sure I agree with the idea that I or anyone else should be forced to violate their religious or moral beliefs to accommodate a gay person or couple in this manner. Slippery slope.

That's just it, though. It should never come up to be a moral/ethical issue. Unless Scouts has changed pretty radically since I was in, you're not teaching them anything like how to have heterosexual sex, or even about marriage in and of itself.

[DragonStryk72]

Great. Now we can just let the young boys explore more than just nature. We can see that they get to team up out in the woods and explore gay sex too.
Isn't liberalism put into practice just a wonderful and delicious slice of a shitpie!?? -Tyr

Um... why would they need to go to the woods to do that? I mean, seriously, these days it's pretty much accepted as essentially normal, so why would there be some conspiracy to use Scouting events in this manner?

[jimnyc]

Well, I'm inclined to argue on this point. Boy Scout of America are not an entirely private group. I don't see the issue here: They're boys, they're Americans- that's it. Why do you even need to know whether they're gay or not? Maybe getting some form of discipline might get them to drop all the false femininity going around. God, that needs to die a horrible death.

I mean, gay is fine, but be a damn man about it, is all I ask.



That's just it, though. It should never come up to be a moral/ethical issue. Unless Scouts has changed pretty radically since I was in, you're not teaching them anything like how to have heterosexual sex, or even about marriage in and of itself.

They don't do business with the general public and are not bound by discriminatory laws. If they were, this would have been in courts a long, long, long time ago and resolved. This is all about pressure for them to do so, not the law. Whether we agree or disagree on how they handle that specific issue, it should still remain their right to make that decision, just as Augusta had the right for so long to leave women out before bowing to public pressure.

[Robert A Whit]

Great. Now we can just let the young boys explore more than just nature. We can see that they get to team up out in the woods and explore gay sex too.
Isn't liberalism put into practice just a wonderful and delicious slice of a shitpie!?? -Tyr

I found to my horror in the boy scouts that the high school kid that was the top appointed scout under the scout leader was a homosexual.

One day he invited me to stay at his house for the night.

Bear in mind, the scout troop was in the church.

I accepted the offer. And as I was trying to get to sleep, he tried some shit.

I did not report him. Me and one other scout took a leak in his water out on a camping trip. That SOB was stopped by me and I never let him get close to me again.

[Kathianne]

Nevermind even the gay thing for a moment - I'm just tired of the public and courts and what not, telling private groups and such what they can and cannot do. The group should be free to make whatever decision THEY like, it's THEIR group. Similar with Augusta National, where there were always demands to allow women. I don't disagree, but you can't DEMAND it, it's a private club!

Me? As I've read it, certain groups are told what is ok and not. Black fraternities, sororities, are ok? Other Greek organizations with restrictions on certain factors? No.

Same with professional organizations and schools. Ok for Blacks, Muslims, other minorities, others? Not so much.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Um... why would they need to go to the woods to do that? I mean, seriously, these days it's pretty much accepted as essentially normal, so why would there be some conspiracy to use Scouting events in this manner?

Before it was frowned upon and action taken against it but now it has been blessed. Which one promotes easier and more experimentation by young kids? Or allows easier access/exploitation of much younger kids by older kids?
Not a good thing...--Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

They don't do business with the general public and are not bound by discriminatory laws. If they were, this would have been in courts a long, long, long time ago and resolved. This is all about pressure for them to do so, not the law. Whether we agree or disagree on how they handle that specific issue, it should still remain their right to make that decision, just as Augusta had the right for so long to leave women out before bowing to public pressure.

lol, dude I was IN scouts- yes they do. I had to sell stuff every year I was in, and Scouts uses an official catalogue for it, and they even sell at Wal-Marts and such now. Toward the end of high school for me, it was Trail's End Popcorn.

Actually, it might shock you to learn that dealing with sexual matters on any level at all is kinda new to Scouts. In 1972, the Scoutmaster's Guidebook still instructed against dealing with sexual issues on any level, as it wasn't Scouts' business to deal with what goes on in the bedroom. Then of course, the Church of Mormon bought it out, and suddenly, that wasn't there any more.

So my question, again, is why is it even an issue?

[jimnyc]

lol, dude I was IN scouts- yes they do. I had to sell stuff every year I was in, and Scouts uses an official catalogue for it, and they even sell at Wal-Marts and such now. Toward the end of high school for me, it was Trail's End Popcorn.

Actually, it might shock you to learn that dealing with sexual matters on any level at all is kinda new to Scouts. In 1972, the Scoutmaster's Guidebook still instructed against dealing with sexual issues on any level, as it wasn't Scouts' business to deal with what goes on in the bedroom. Then of course, the Church of Mormon bought it out, and suddenly, that wasn't there any more.

So my question, again, is why is it even an issue?

They would have been charged in various states under anti-discriminatory laws if that were the case. Just as the florist very recently that has been sued 2x by the AG for not selling flowers to gay couples getting married. If they are a public company just like a florist or baker - then why haven't the Scouts been charged the same?

As an example:

http://news.yahoo.com/washington-state-florist-sued-again-refusal-gay-wedding-073032518.html

[Robert A Whit]

lol, dude I was IN scouts- yes they do. I had to sell stuff every year I was in, and Scouts uses an official catalogue for it, and they even sell at Wal-Marts and such now. Toward the end of high school for me, it was Trail's End Popcorn.

Actually, it might shock you to learn that dealing with sexual matters on any level at all is kinda new to Scouts. In 1972, the Scoutmaster's Guidebook still instructed against dealing with sexual issues on any level, as it wasn't Scouts' business to deal with what goes on in the bedroom. Then of course, the Church of Mormon bought it out, and suddenly, that wasn't there any more.

So my question, again, is why is it even an issue?

Can you back up your claim that the LDS church bought out the Boy Scouts. My grandson would quit the scouts if he heard that and believed it.

[aboutime]

lol, dude I was IN scouts- yes they do. I had to sell stuff every year I was in, and Scouts uses an official catalogue for it, and they even sell at Wal-Marts and such now. Toward the end of high school for me, it was Trail's End Popcorn.

Actually, it might shock you to learn that dealing with sexual matters on any level at all is kinda new to Scouts. In 1972, the Scoutmaster's Guidebook still instructed against dealing with sexual issues on any level, as it wasn't Scouts' business to deal with what goes on in the bedroom. Then of course, the Church of Mormon bought it out, and suddenly, that wasn't there any more.

So my question, again, is why is it even an issue?


DragonStryk. As you can see. It doesn't matter what anyone may happen to say here. There must always be someone who needs, or finds a reason to always disagree, and demand proof of such foolish things.

[DragonStryk72]

Can you back up your claim that the LDS church bought out the Boy Scouts. My grandson would quit the scouts if he heard that and believed it.

Yeah, that happened years ago now. Actually, it's BSA putting forth the proposal for the LDS Church to approve:


http://www.kpvi.com/content/news/local/story/BSA-Proposes-Allowing-Gay-Scouts-LDS-Church/yzihspdpSUeV5eif8DNBGA.cspx

This is a link to an article that discusses it a bit. However, I would state that if your grandson is enjoying himself, and getting something out of it, then best to leave the matter alone for him. Scouts was a great time for me, and I'd hate to see someone lose that experience over something he would never have noticed if it wasn't spelled out to him.

[aboutime]

Yeah, that happened years ago now. Actually, it's BSA putting forth the proposal for the LDS Church to approve:


http://www.kpvi.com/content/news/local/story/BSA-Proposes-Allowing-Gay-Scouts-LDS-Church/yzihspdpSUeV5eif8DNBGA.cspx

This is a link to an article that discusses it a bit. However, I would state that if your grandson is enjoying himself, and getting something out of it, then best to leave the matter alone for him. Scouts was a great time for me, and I'd hate to see someone lose that experience over something he would never have noticed if it wasn't spelled out to him.


DragonStryk. Both of our grown son's were Scouts. They laugh at stuff like this and remind everyone else....

4898

[Robert A Whit]

Yeah, that happened years ago now. Actually, it's BSA putting forth the proposal for the LDS Church to approve:


http://www.kpvi.com/content/news/local/story/BSA-Proposes-Allowing-Gay-Scouts-LDS-Church/yzihspdpSUeV5eif8DNBGA.cspx

This is a link to an article that discusses it a bit. However, I would state that if your grandson is enjoying himself, and getting something out of it, then best to leave the matter alone for him. Scouts was a great time for me, and I'd hate to see someone lose that experience over something he would never have noticed if it wasn't spelled out to him.

Thank you for the article but it does not say that the Mormons operate the Boy Scouts. It says of all churches, it has the most church members in scouts vs other churches percent of scouts.

In raw numbers, I believe the Mormons are a minority group.

My daughter was baptized a Mormon but when she married,she married a guy that bounces from church to church. I am not clear my grandsons troop is church or not. I was kidding he would quit. He is close to or is an Eagle by now.

Here is the article from you for more review. To be frank, I tend to doubt the church will throw open the doors to homosexuals. But who knows for sure.


The official vote won't come for a few weeks but the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.
The Scouts announced Friday that it would submit this proposal to the roughly 1,400 voting members of its National Council at a meeting in Texas the week of May 20. Earlier, the BSA had indicated it might give local Scout units the option of admitting gays as both youth members and adult leaders, or continuing to exclude them. The BSA said Friday it changed course due in part to results of surveys sent out this year to members of the scouting community.
Gay-rights groups have demanded a complete lifting of the ban. Some churches and conservative groups want it maintained.
Leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Utah say they will carefully review the Boy Scouts of America's new proposal on the organization's long-standing ban on gays before taking a position.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spokesman Michael Purdy said Friday they are looking closely at the language in the proposal and studying the implications.
Figures from the Boy Scouts of America show there are more LDS Boy Scouts nationally than any other religious denomination. In the Boy Scouts' Great Salt Lake Council, 99 percent of the troops are sponsored by the Mormon church.
The LDS church teaches its members that marriage is only between a man and a woman and that same-sex relationships are sinful.

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/ca050213dBP20130430094519.jpg

[aboutime]

Just wondering about this but. By ending the gay ban in the Scouts.

Doesn't that open up eligibility for a new MERIT BADGE for proctology exams, and awareness?

If so. It might also lead to ending PROSTATE cancer too!

The Badge could be called 'Bendover'. Almost a place in Maryland too!

[Little-Acorn]

For at least a couple years now, our Scout troops has had rules that weren't there when my older son was a Scout.

1.) No adult male may spend the night in a tent with any Scout (age 18 or under) that he is not directly related to.

(This means that, if the kids on a campout want to get together in a tent that night and have flashlight wars, NONE of their fathers may be present.)

2.) An adult male may not enter a public bathroom where one or more Scouts is inside, unless another adult male goes in there with him. (Two-man rule)

(As a result, if you are about to leave a parking lot, campsite etc. on an outing and want to make sure you have all the Scouts ready, and are not leaving any of them in the bathroom, if only one Scoutmaster or adult is leading the outing, he cannot check inside to see if any of his troop is there. He must stand outside and yell, or send in one of the junior Scouts. If two adults are leading the group, they must leave the rest of the Troop unattended outside, while both of them go in to check for stray Scouts.)

[aboutime]

For at least a couple years now, our Scout troops has had rules that weren't there when my older son was a Scout.

1.) No adult male may spend the night in a tent with any Scout (age 18 or under) that he is not directly related to.

(This means that, if the kids on a campout want to get together in a tent that night and have flashlight wars, NONE of their fathers may be present.)

2.) An adult male may not enter a public bathroom where one or more Scouts is inside, unless another adult male goes in there with him. (Two-man rule)

(As a result, if you are about to leave a parking lot, campsite etc. on an outing and want to make sure you have all the Scouts ready, and are not leaving any of them in the bathroom, if only one Scoutmaster or adult is leading the outing, he cannot check inside to see if any of his troop is there. He must stand outside and yell, or send in one of the junior Scouts. If two adults are leading the group, they must leave the rest of the Troop unattended outside, while both of them go in to check for stray Scouts.)


Sad. Really, really sad. Killing our society, one person at a time. Removing all TRUST, HONOR, and DEDICATION to humanity for the sake of a FEW who insist their tendencies to be unlike other humans...is more important.
Better known as MOB RULE.

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/ca053013dBP20130528094511.jpg