Why Switzerland Has The Lowest Crime Rate In The World

[jimnyc]

From the YouTube description (Video uploaded on Nov. 2009): When thinking about the mass extermination camps of a holocaust’, think…

The key to freedom is to be able to have the ability to defend yourself and if you don’t have the tools to do that, then you’re going to be at the mercy of whomever wants to put you away.

Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture – but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

This is in a very large part due to Switzerland’s unique system of national defense, developed over the centuries.

Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives.

Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home.

Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6nf1OgV449g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://libertycrier.com/world-news/why-switzerland-has-the-lowest-crime-rate-in-the-world/

[Marcus Aurelius]

Wow.. all those guns in the hands of the civilians, and the result is hardly any gun crime.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

[aboutime]

Wow.. all those guns in the hands of the civilians, and the result is hardly any gun crime.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................


Marcus and Jim. Wanna take any bets on jafar...IGNORING this thread?

Imagine the horror jafar might feel. Or better yet. Imagine Joe "SHOTGUN" Biden, and his little boy boss Obama if someone would
ask either of them about the SWISS, and their GUNS.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Marcus and Jim. Wanna take any bets on jafar...IGNORING this thread?

Imagine the horror jafar might feel. Or better yet. Imagine Joe "SHOTGUN" Biden, and his little boy boss Obama if someone would
ask either of them about the SWISS, and their GUNS.

Jahil: They are not 'really' Swiss citizens.

[jafar00]

The concept of Swiss gun ownership is different to the US. All owners get military training and discipline and the guns are to be used only to protect the country as a part of a "well organised militia". I believe the Swiss idea about gun ownership is closer to the intended interpretation of the 2nd Amendment than the interpretation of US gun nuts that everyone has the right to own a weapon without training or background checks.



In 2006, the champion Swiss skier Corrinne Rey-Bellet and her brother were murdered by Corinne's estranged husband, who shot them with his old militia rifle before killing himself.

Since that incident, gun laws concerning army weapons have tightened. Although it is still possible for a former soldier to buy his firearm after he finishes military service, he must provide a justification for keeping the weapon and apply for a permit.
When I meet Mathias, a PhD student and serving officer, at his apartment in a snowy suburb of Zurich, I realise the rules have got stricter than I imagined. Mathias keeps his army pistol in the guest room of his home, in a desk drawer hidden under the printer paper. It is a condition of the interview that I don't give his surname or hint at his address.
"I do as the army advises and I keep the barrel separately from my pistol," he explains seriously. "I keep the barrel in the basement so if anyone breaks into my apartment and finds the gun, it's useless to them."
He shakes out the gun holster. "And we don't get bullets any more," he adds. "The Army doesn't give ammunition now - it's all kept in a central arsenal." This measure was introduced by Switzerland's Federal Council in 2007.
Mathias carefully puts away his pistol and shakes his head firmly when I ask him if he feels safer having a gun at home, explaining that even if he had ammunition, he would not be allowed to use it against an intruder.
"The gun is not given to me to protect me or my family," he says. "I have been given this gun by my country to serve my country - and for me it is an honour to take care of it. I think it is a good thing for the state to give this responsibility to people."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912

[jimnyc]

The concept of Swiss gun ownership is different to the US. All owners get military training and discipline and the guns are to be used only to protect the country as a part of a "well organised militia". I believe the Swiss idea about gun ownership is closer to the intended interpretation of the 2nd Amendment than the interpretation of US gun nuts that everyone has the right to own a weapon without training or background checks.



[/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912[/FONT][/COLOR]

And NONE of that changes the FACT that they are loaded with guns to the teeth, and crime is as low as it is. Your interpretation of a foreign document that you obviously don't understand, is meaningless.

[Robert A Whit]

Jafar: The concept of Swiss gun ownership is different to the US. All owners get military training and discipline and the guns are to be used only to protect the country as a part of a "well organised militia". I believe the Swiss idea about gun ownership is closer to the intended interpretation of the 2nd Amendment than the interpretation of US gun nuts that everyone has the right to own a weapon without training or background checks.

Jafar, the USA is not at all interested in giving us each arms. They (Democrats) are only interest is in disarming us. They pretend they only want to do a background check. I was trained just as you say. Trained to defend the country, again as you say. But even so, when I purchase guns today, they still persist in background checks. And they don't pay for them, I must pay for them. It does not benefit me, so why charge me?

They ought to issue the current military rapid fire weapon to me.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The concept of Swiss gun ownership is different to the US. All owners get military training and discipline and the guns are to be used only to protect the country as a part of a "well organised militia". I believe the Swiss idea about gun ownership is closer to the intended interpretation of the 2nd Amendment than the interpretation of US gun nuts that everyone has the right to own a weapon without training or background checks.



[/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912[/FONT][/COLOR]

another flat out lie. You better post some evidence to back up your claim that the Swiss can ONLY use their guns in a militia.

I dare you.

This... ain't it... read it again....

Although it is still possible for a former soldier to buy his firearm after he finishes military service, he must provide a justification for keeping the weapon and apply for a permit.

However, I'm betting you'll disappear from this thread like you did when you lied about that jewelry store owner who punched out a guy YOU claimed had a fake gun (you never backed THAT up with proof either).

Dumb ass

As for your 'interpretation' of the 2nd amendment, the US Supreme court has REPEATEDLY found that the 2nd does NOT limit guns to 'a well regulated militia'.

Dumb ass.

[aboutime]

another flat out lie. You better post some evidence to back up your claim that the Swiss can ONLY use their guns in a militia.

I dare you.

However, I'm betting you'll disappear from this thread like you did when you lied about tha jewelry store owner who punched out a guy YOU claimed had a fake gun (you never backed THAT up with proof either).

Dumb ass

As for your 'interpretation' of the 2nd amendment, the US Supreme court has REPEATEDLY found that the 2nd does NOT limit guns to 'a well regulated militia'.

Dumb ass.


Marcus. We must always remember. jafar is not a U.S. Citizen, and does not live here. So. Everything jafar dares to say means nothing to him...unless he is successful in throwing the Mudballs like the cowardly bully he pretends to be.
The endless lies he brings here mean nothing because brainless, troublemakers have nothing to work with, or share. Other than their stupidity, and willingness to incite anger to prolong the jafar brand of ignorance....like a Loving,Hat filled Hamas Worshiper SHOULD.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The concept of Swiss gun ownership is different to the US. All owners get military training and discipline and the guns are to be used only to protect the country as a part of a "well organised militia"...


Not according to this, dumb ass...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Buying guns Conditions under the 1999 Gun Act

To purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms. Everyone over the age of 18 who is not psychiatrically disqualified (such as having had a history of endangering his own life or the lives of others) or identified as posing security problems, and who has a clean criminal record (requires a Criminal Records Bureau check) can request such a permit.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#cite_note-9)[better source needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTRS)]



To buy a gun from an individual, no permit is needed, but the seller is expected to establish a reasonable certainty that the purchaser will fulfill the above-mentioned conditions (usually done through a Criminal Records Bureau check). The participants in such a transaction are required to prepare a written contract detailing the identities of both vendor and purchaser, the weapon's type, manufacturer, and serial number. The law requires the written contract to be kept for ten years by the buyer and seller. The seller is also required to see some official ID from the purchaser, for such sales are only allowed to Swiss nationals and foreigners with a valid residence permit, with the exception of those foreigners that come from certain countries (Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Albania, Algeria), to whom such sales are not allowed even if they do have a residence permit. Foreigners without a residence permit must ask for Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). [10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#cite_note-10)[better source needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTRS)]



After turning 18, any individual can buy singleshot or bolt-action long arms (breech-loading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breech-loading_weapon) or muzzle-loading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzleloader)) without a permit (so-called "free arms").[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Likewise, members of a recognized rifle association do not need a buying permit for purchasing antique repeaters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm#Repeating.2C_semi-automatic.2C_and_automatic_firearms), and hunters do not need one for buying typical hunting rifles.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]



Basically, the sale of automatic firearms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_firearm), selective fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_fire) weapons and certain accessories such as sound suppressors ("silencers") (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor) is forbidden (as is the sale of certain disabled automatic firearms which have been identified as easily restored to fully automatic capability). The purchase of such items is however legal with a special permit issued by cantonal police. The issuance of such a permit requires additional requirements to be met, e.g. the possession of a specific gun locker.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]



Most types of ammunition are available for commercial sale, including full metal jacket bullet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_metal_jacket_bullet) calibres for military-issue weapons; hollow point rounds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_point_bullet) are only permitted for hunters. Ammunition sales are registered only at the point of sale by recording the buyer's name in a bound book.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]



Semi-automatic weapons are legal to purchase with a permit.

[jafar00]

Jafar, the USA is not at all interested in giving us each arms. They (Democrats) are only interest is in disarming us. They pretend they only want to do a background check. I was trained just as you say. Trained to defend the country, again as you say. But even so, when I purchase guns today, they still persist in background checks. And they don't pay for them, I must pay for them. It does not benefit me, so why charge me?

They ought to issue the current military rapid fire weapon to me.

The fact that the Swiss are a lot more disciplined as a people than the rest of us, probably has something to do with it.

Plus they are all trained in the military how to use and respect their firearm. Plus the fact that they cannot store the firearm in complete form in one place. They must store the parts separately in different parts of the house. They also don't have any ammo. Little things which basically mean that even though they have guns (or the parts of a guns) in their homes, it is the same as not having one since they are for one purpose and can't be used for any other purpose. To defend the country from invasion.

If the US required training and signing up for a "properly regulated Militia" it might be different.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The fact that the Swiss are a lot more disciplined as a people than the rest of us, probably has something to do with it.

Plus they are all trained in the military how to use and respect their firearm. Plus the fact that they cannot store the firearm in complete form in one place. They must store the parts separately in different parts of the house. They also don't have any ammo. Little things which basically mean that even though they have guns (or the parts of a guns) in their homes, it is the same as not having one since they are for one purpose and can't be used for any other purpose. To defend the country from invasion.

If the US required training and signing up for a "properly regulated Militia" it might be different.

Again, your reading comprehension skills suck... or you're too stupid to realize we see through your lies.


"I do as the army advises and I keep the barrel separately from my pistol,"
one guy, doing what the Army 'advises'. It's not a law.



They also don't have any ammoAgain, a lie, as my Wiki link proves.


they are for one purpose and can't be used for any other purpose. To defend the country from invasion.again, this was already proven to be a lie.

You really do suck at this, Jahil.

[DragonStryk72]

Wow.. all those guns in the hands of the civilians, and the result is hardly any gun crime.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

Not only that, but trained to military-grade standards. What do you want to bet the obesity level is low there as well?

[logroller]

Not only that, but trained to military-grade standards. What do you want to bet the obesity level is low there as well?
They also have an individual health insurance mandate. I was told by some posters here that their lesser size and population makes that feasible, and that in America it couldn't work. Which begs the question whether the same applies to guns? Might add too, that the Swiss law as described in Wikipedia above closely mimics the recent senate bill that failed. So I'm not entirely sure that Swiss standards and practices are supportive of those in the US.

[DragonStryk72]

They also have an individual health insurance mandate. I was told by some posters here that their lesser size and population makes that feasible, and that in America it couldn't work. Which begs the question whether the same applies to guns? Might add too, that the Swiss law as described in Wikipedia above closely mimics the recent senate bill that failed. So I'm not entirely sure that Swiss standards and practices are supportive of those in the US.

The difference, the main one I think, is that the laws that restricted guns also empowered the citizenry to be active in their own protection. Here, we get restrictions, and told to just trust the cops and the government that are minutes to hours away with our protection. The restrictions, in this instant, are not punitive, because they provide defense in a positive way. What's the last gun control law that did that here?

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by logroller http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=632176#post632176)
They also have an individual health insurance mandate. I was told by some posters here that their lesser size and population makes that feasible, and that in America it couldn't work. Which begs the question whether the same applies to guns? Might add too, that the Swiss law as described in Wikipedia above closely mimics the recent senate bill that failed. So I'm not entirely sure that Swiss standards and practices are supportive of those in the US.



The difference, the main one I think, is that the laws that restricted guns also empowered the citizenry to be active in their own protection. Here, we get restrictions, and told to just trust the cops and the government that are minutes to hours away with our protection. The restrictions, in this instant, are not punitive, because they provide defense in a positive way. What's the last gun control law that did that here?

At least the Senate came to it's senses. We have a hard time discussing Switzerland given we know too little about the country. If they have a universal health plan, we don't know how long they can afford it. Maybe the Swiss don't mind taking home so little money.

[logroller]

The difference, the main one I think, is that the laws that restricted guns also empowered the citizenry to be active in their own protection. Here, we get restrictions, and told to just trust the cops and the government that are minutes to hours away with our protection. The restrictions, in this instant, are not punitive, because they provide defense in a positive way. What's the last gun control law that did that here?
I think what you describe are cultural differences. I'd guess that Swiss citizens hold healthier attitudes towards gun use, rather than violence. Not trying to blame media, but its influence in this country is substantial.

At least the Senate came to it's senses. We have a hard time discussing Switzerland given we know too little about the country. If they have a universal health plan, we don't know how long they can afford it. Maybe the Swiss don't mind taking home so little money.
O

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the country with the lowest marginal tax rate on average income workers — Switzerland, at 20% — also boasts the world’s 7th highest GDP per capita at $43,196. The UK’s Times Online called attention to Switzerland’s “benign tax system” in a 2009 article about the nation’s “low tax high life” that invites people to escape 50% tax rates by moving there. Contrary to general assumptions, the Times explains, Switzerland has found a way to maintain a high standard of living alongside an extremely low personal income tax rate. BusinessWeek likewise reported in 2009 that Switzerland was “openly and legally urging multinationals to relocate” — and succeeding, while other nations buckled beneath staggering debt. Switzerland’s low tax rates have not stopped it from having some of the leading universities in the world, a highly educated work force and less than 3% unemployment as of 2009.http://www.businesspundit.com/12-countries-with-the-highest-lowest-tax-rates/?img=18769

[Kathianne]

I think what you describe are cultural differences. I'd guess that Swiss citizens hold healthier attitudes towards gun use, rather than violence. Not trying to blame media, but its influence in this country is substantial.

O
http://www.businesspundit.com/12-countries-with-the-highest-lowest-tax-rates/?img=18769

Switzerland is a tiny, homogeneous country. With the exception of many freedoms that the US used to enjoy and celebrate, we've little in common with the Swiss. We are a huge country, with much diversity. During WWII we eventually went to war. The Swiss stayed neutral, guns and all. Oh yeah, they pretty much refused sanctuary to the Jews fleeing Nazi occupied lands. They also gave documentation of loot, to officers of the 3rd Reich.

Now who is most Aryan? Germans? Austrians? Swiss? What was Hitler and what was he trying to pass as? Few Swiss would look like Hitler. LOL!

[DragonStryk72]

I think what you describe are cultural differences. I'd guess that Swiss citizens hold healthier attitudes towards gun use, rather than violence. Not trying to blame media, but its influence in this country is substantial.

O
http://www.businesspundit.com/12-countries-with-the-highest-lowest-tax-rates/?img=18769

Well, yeah, our media tries to makes us utterly afraid. I actually watched the news on the BBC, and I swear, they could be facing the Apocalypse, and not panic anyone watching the broadcast. Most other countries that I have been to, the news media is almost built to ratchet down panic, but oh dear god, do we try to ramp it up. Especially where our children are concerned.

Like, remember those really badass wooden playgrounds that used to be around? Yeah, apparently, the fear over getting a splinter was enough cause, thanks to our media, to rally parents to get rid of them. It's no different with guns, either.

[Noir]

If that was the case (freedom of guns = security = less crime) then America would have one of the lowest crime rates too. If anything the OP shows in no way why their crime is so low, because there is no correlation.

[Marcus Aurelius]

So, any bets on whether or not Jahil returns to the thread after his lies were outed? I'm betting yes, but he ignores any request to back up his lies.

[jimnyc]

If that was the case (freedom of guns = security = less crime) then America would have one of the lowest crime rates too. If anything the OP shows in no way why their crime is so low, because there is no correlation.

Except that there are differences in laws and regulations from state to state. Then from city to city. One city in Georgia makes it mandatory to own a gun. Then go to Chicago and see if you can get a gun. Chicago has the toughest laws, and the most crime. The mandatory place in Georgia has little to no crime. Break it down to city to city, and that correlation becomes MUCH clearer in the majority of instances.

[DragonStryk72]

If that was the case (freedom of guns = security = less crime) then America would have one of the lowest crime rates too. If anything the OP shows in no way why their crime is so low, because there is no correlation.

Not true, actually. Thinking on it, we do have one issue as far as guns go: We have fifty states with fifty different sets of gun laws. I mean, think on it a minute, Noir. In England, the gun law in Northern England is the same set of laws as Southern England. But just going from Texas to Oklahoma is a completely different affair as far as gun ownership goes.

To actually get a vague impression of just what it's like here, you basically have to try and combine all of Europe's gun laws, and then have a central EU governmental body that can make up laws that effect every one of the member countries.

Now, this wouldn't even be so bad... if the federal government didn't keep trying to pass laws that are either already covered, or slip in unnecessary legislation. For instance, in this case, the expanded background checks that are there to close the gun show "loophole" (That's in quotes because the loophole was actually closed in the late 90s when the NICS system went into effect, and hasn't existed since.).

Since you're also a gamer, another decent analogy is the federal law they tried to pass requiring a rating system for video games... almost a decade after the ESRB system was off the ground running. Or when the government tries to get around double jeopardy laws here by making something both a state, and federal crime, doubling up the sentencing for a single crime.

[revelarts]

lots of comparison re swiss vs u.s.

the U.S. hasn't always been so large and other cultural political issue not withstanding,
the principals addressed in the video jim posted are valid.

the size of, the homogeneity of the population, the tax schemes, health care schemes, and even national neutrality aside.
they are NOT necessary parts of the clear concept of, every home trained and armed, with freedom for more arms as desired.

our schools teach a lot of stuff that inculcate a national and still somewhat nationalistic POV on certain issues. if not nationalistic then just a saftey.
"stop drop and roll" "dail 911 in case of emergency" "smoking is bad it causes cancer"
in 12 years we could have nearly all the children who understood their fundmental rights to self defense, with the expectation that they needed to be responsible gun owners. And that weapons are for personal/national defense.

all of the other issues are non sequiturs

Guns as a tool are not going away, the only question is how people think of them and who's going to own them.
Seems to me the Swiss have a better perspective than on freedom, personal safety and it's relationship to the tools that bear on both. Than those that blithely want to trust the gov't with there safety, their freedom, health and all things.

[logroller]

lots of comparison re swiss vs u.s.

the U.S. hasn't always been so large and other cultural political issue not withstanding,
the principals addressed in the video jim posted are valid.

the size of, the homogeneity of the population, the tax schemes, health care schemes, and even national neutrality aside.
they are NOT necessary parts of the clear concept of, every home trained and armed, with freedom for more arms as desired.

our schools teach a lot of stuff that inculcate a national and still somewhat nationalistic POV on certain issues. if not nationalistic then just a saftey.
"stop drop and roll" "dail 911 in case of emergency" "smoking is bad it causes cancer"
in 12 years we could have nearly all the children who understood their fundmental rights to self defense, with the expectation that they needed to be responsible gun owners. And that weapons are for personal/national defense.

all of the other issues are non sequiturs

Guns as a tool are not going away, the only question is how people think of them and who's going to own them.
Seems to me the Swiss have a better perspective than on freedom, personal safety and it's relationship to the tools that bear on both. Than those that blithely want to trust the gov't with there safety, their freedom, health and all things.
Perhaps not, but neither does embracing the right to bear arms alone deliver unto a society peace and security. Yemen has more guns per capita than Switzerland. Indubitably, other cultural factors are relevant.

[revelarts]

Perhaps not, but neither does embracing the right to bear arms alone deliver unto a society peace and security. Yemen has more guns per capita than Switzerland. Indubitably, other cultural factors are relevant.

Yes, no doubt other cultural factors do need to come into play.
But for ubiquitous gun ownership only a few, and those internal i think, a deep respect for individual human life, liberty and property.

I think those values could easily be reinforced across the board, rich and poor, all ethic groups and ages and many political stripes in most cases.

[logroller]

Yes, no doubt other cultural factors do need to come into play.
But for ubiquitous gun ownership only a few, and those internal i think, a deep respect for individual human life, liberty and property.

I think those values could easily be reinforced across the board, rich and poor, all ethic groups and ages and many political stripes in most cases.
Indeed. I think what need be reinforced is the 'why' more so than the 'what'. That even in our 2nd amendment, a 'why' precedes the 'what'; yet it seems to have manifested differently. And when you look at Switzerland that same 'why', militia readiness, is compulsory in their constitution. That their society embraces this and, likewise, other civic duties, it seemingly follows suit that they want not to abridge their fellow citizens' rights. I've long thought that military/civic service be compulsory in the US upon age of majority. Lord knows I'd of been better for it.

[revelarts]

Indeed. I think what need be reinforced is the 'why' more so than the 'what'. That even in our 2nd amendment, a 'why' precedes the 'what'; yet it seems to have manifested differently. And when you look at Switzerland that same 'why', militia readiness, is compulsory in their constitution. That their society embraces this and, likewise, other civic duties, it seemingly follows suit that they want not to abridge their fellow citizens' rights. I've long thought that military/civic service be compulsory in the US upon age of majority. Lord knows I'd of been better for it.

I think your right.
the only issue i'd have with a soft mandatory service (no fines or jail if you opt out) in our case is that our gov't has not followed the constitution when it comes to declaring wars so often. if the people, via the congress were the ones truly making that decision every time instead of the CiC id be more comfortable with it.
mandatory service as a national guard sure OK.
We don't have to be completely neutral but we shouldn't have had that list of wars/invasions/actions i found the other day. We don't need to modern Sparta.