Honor killing, pregnant woman throat cut and belly slashed open! Islam speaks!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130414161342

MID-EAST (http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.cat&categoryID=2013041443972)
Jordan woman's throat slit in 'honor' killing: policeLast updated: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:19 PM

AMMAN — Jordanian police said on Sunday they found the burned body of a pregnant woman whose throat had been slit and belly cut open showing her four-month-old fetus, in an apparent "honor killing."

"We found the body of the woman at dawn in Ruseifeh (east of Amman). Her throat was slit in a hideous way. The body was burned after the murder," a police spokesman said.

"We believe it was an honor crime. The belly of the woman, who was in her twenties, was cut open and we could see her four-month-old unborn child, who was dead too. Investigations are still under way."

Between 15 and 20 women die in so-called "honor" murders each year in the Arab kingdom, despite government efforts to curb such crimes.

Murder is punishable by death in Jordan, but in "honor killings" courts can commute or reduce sentences, particularly if the victim's family asks for leniency. — AFP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine what kind of animals it took to do that to that woman!!
Islam produces such as that by the tens of millions worldwide!!-Tyr

[jafar00]

Your point Tyr?

Here are some other similar murders. The different here is the killers in these cases will likely not face the death penalty unlike the killer in Jordan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1318532/Womb-raider-Korena-Roberts-cut-pregnant-womans-baby-jailed.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047376/Annette-Morales-Rodriguez-beat-pregnant-mother-death-cut-child-womb-C-section.html
http://www.wbrz.com/news/sheriff-gruesome-scene-where-baby-cut-from-mother
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/20/police-say-woman-killed-pregnant-mom-cut-baby-from-abdomen/

[Marcus Aurelius]

Your point Tyr?

Here are some other similar murders. The different here is the killers in these cases will likely not face the death penalty unlike the killer in Jordan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1318532/Womb-raider-Korena-Roberts-cut-pregnant-womans-baby-jailed.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047376/Annette-Morales-Rodriguez-beat-pregnant-mother-death-cut-child-womb-C-section.html
http://www.wbrz.com/news/sheriff-gruesome-scene-where-baby-cut-from-mother
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/20/police-say-woman-killed-pregnant-mom-cut-baby-from-abdomen/

none of these were Islamic honor killings, dumb ass.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Your point Tyr?

Here are some other similar murders. The different here is the killers in these cases will likely not face the death penalty unlike the killer in Jordan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1318532/Womb-raider-Korena-Roberts-cut-pregnant-womans-baby-jailed.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047376/Annette-Morales-Rodriguez-beat-pregnant-mother-death-cut-child-womb-C-section.html
http://www.wbrz.com/news/sheriff-gruesome-scene-where-baby-cut-from-mother
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/20/police-say-woman-killed-pregnant-mom-cut-baby-from-abdomen/

First two links were about actions taken by mentally deranged women, I didn't bother to view the next two after seeing you are defending honor killing by point to acts done by crazy women!!
Is that the best you could come up with? Such a pitiful and lousy comparison?-Tyr

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=631301#post631301)
Your point Tyr?

Here are some other similar murders. The different here is the killers in these cases will likely not face the death penalty unlike the killer in Jordan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...by-jailed.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1318532/Womb-raider-Korena-Roberts-cut-pregnant-womans-baby-jailed.html)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...C-section.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047376/Annette-Morales-Rodriguez-beat-pregnant-mother-death-cut-child-womb-C-section.html)
http://www.wbrz.com/news/sheriff-gru...ut-from-mother (http://www.wbrz.com/news/sheriff-gruesome-scene-where-baby-cut-from-mother)
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/20/p...-from-abdomen/ (http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/20/police-say-woman-killed-pregnant-mom-cut-baby-from-abdomen/)



First two links were about actions taken by mentally deranged women, I didn't bother to view the next two after seeing you are defending honor killing by point to acts done by crazy women!!
Is that the best you could come up with? Such a pitiful and lousy comparison?-Tyr

Maybe what Jahil is saying, is that you have to be mentally deranged to be Muslim?

[Robert A Whit]

Maybe what Jahil is saying, is that you have to be mentally deranged to be Muslim?

Rhondda HOA

Nice people.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Rhondda HOA

Nice people.

Some of them are, actually. Not sure what that has to do with this discussion though.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Robert A Whit http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=631503#post631503)
Rhondda HOA

Nice people.


Some of them are, actually. Not sure what that has to do with this discussion though.

Take a look at your signature line.

Hey, I just figured they might like to get a reply from a HOA expert.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Take a look at your signature line.

Hey, I just figured they might like to get a reply from a HOA expert.

You, an HOA expert?

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your post STILL had nothing to do with the thread topic. You gonna start hijacking threads again???

Dumb ass.

[Robert A Whit]

You, an HOA expert?

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your post STILL had nothing to do with the thread topic. You gonna start hijacking threads again???

Dumb ass.



Hijacked?

Certainly I am the only HOA expert posting on this forum.

You are the only expert on you being a dumb ass.

[aboutime]

Hijacked?

Certainly I am the only HOA expert posting on this forum.

You are the only expert on you being a dumb ass.
Robert. Don't tell anyone else but. You ARE expert at Not Minding Your Own Business here.

And your expertise is solely as a perfection expert on being a Dumb Ass. (Your words, not mine)

[tailfins]

Your point Tyr?

Here are some other similar murders. The different here is the killers in these cases will likely not face the death penalty unlike the killer in Jordan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1318532/Womb-raider-Korena-Roberts-cut-pregnant-womans-baby-jailed.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047376/Annette-Morales-Rodriguez-beat-pregnant-mother-death-cut-child-womb-C-section.html
http://www.wbrz.com/news/sheriff-gruesome-scene-where-baby-cut-from-mother
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/20/police-say-woman-killed-pregnant-mom-cut-baby-from-abdomen/

Does this mean you support the death penalty? Why are you so left-leaning in your views?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Does this mean you support the death penalty? Why are you so left-leaning in your views?

Because the leftists and the Islamist share many of the same goals . Their alliance is an understood pact based upon the old saying , "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Jafar(typical muslim) goes along with any that seek to weaken us. -Tyr

[jafar00]

Does this mean you support the death penalty? Why are you so left-leaning in your views?

I support the Islamic Law position where the relatives of the deceased get to decide on Death Penalty or Blood money.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I support the Islamic Law position where the relatives of the deceased get to decide on Death Penalty or Blood money.

What you favor Islamic law over that of the law of the nation you live in, Australia.
Why am I not shocked to read that??--Tyr

[red states rule]

I support the Islamic Law

I always knew you supported honor killings

[Drummond]

What you favor Islamic law over that of the law of the nation you live in, Australia.
Why am I not shocked to read that??--Tyr
:clap::clap:

Most interesting !! I thought I understood from another of Jafar's posts that Jafar would respect indigenous laws ?

Capital punishment was outlawed in Australia decades ago, Jafar ... the position you now take puts you in defiance of this, favouring Sharia Law instead.

Your statement - as you must know even better than I - is very different from a more typically Australian one.

I'm sure Anjem Choudary, he of 'I want to see Sharia Law dominate the entire world' would warmly approve !!

[red states rule]

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130414161342

MID-EAST (http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.cat&categoryID=2013041443972)
Jordan woman's throat slit in 'honor' killing: police

Last updated: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:19 PM

AMMAN — Jordanian police said on Sunday they found the burned body of a pregnant woman whose throat had been slit and belly cut open showing her four-month-old fetus, in an apparent "honor killing."

"We found the body of the woman at dawn in Ruseifeh (east of Amman). Her throat was slit in a hideous way. The body was burned after the murder," a police spokesman said.

"We believe it was an honor crime. The belly of the woman, who was in her twenties, was cut open and we could see her four-month-old unborn child, who was dead too. Investigations are still under way."

Between 15 and 20 women die in so-called "honor" murders each year in the Arab kingdom, despite government efforts to curb such crimes.

Murder is punishable by death in Jordan, but in "honor killings" courts can commute or reduce sentences, particularly if the victim's family asks for leniency. — AFP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine what kind of animals it took to do that to that woman!!
Islam produces such as that by the tens of millions worldwide!!-Tyr


Inspector Jafar has ruled this death a suicide

[red states rule]

:clap::clap:

Most interesting !! I thought I understood from another of Jafar's posts that Jafar would respect indigenous laws ?

Capital punishment was outlawed in Australia decades ago, Jafar ... the position you now take puts you in defiance of this, favouring Sharia Law instead.

I'm sure Anjem Choudary would warmly approve !!

No stop confusing Jafar with facts

[jimnyc]

Rhondda HOA

Nice people.

Please stay on topic, this thread has nothing to do with an HOA.

[Voted4Reagan]

I support the Islamic Law position where the relatives of the deceased get to decide on Death Penalty or Blood money.


You mean the Babylonian laws that Islam copied... When they conquered the fertile crescent.

right?

That is how the concept of an Eye for an Eye and QISAS came to be a part of Islam.

It came from a mortal man, King Hammurabi. 3000 years before The Prophet(may peace be upon him) was born.

It wasn't a divine revelation to the Prophet (May peace be upon him).

[red states rule]

A perfect example of Islamic Law


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tHDEK8sPiCY/TbGUjS7fEGI/AAAAAAAALX4/JQFJt2nMwJU/s1600/Sharia_Law_102.jpg

[stevecanuck]

I support the Islamic Law position where the relatives of the deceased get to decide on Death Penalty or Blood money.

Unless the killer is a muslim and the victim is an infidel (Never should a muslim be killed in qisas for killing an unbeliever).

[Marcus Aurelius]

A perfect example of Islamic Law


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tHDEK8sPiCY/TbGUjS7fEGI/AAAAAAAALX4/JQFJt2nMwJU/s1600/Sharia_Law_102.jpg

I wonder how loud she farted?

[jafar00]

I always knew you supported honor killings

No. "Honour" killing is murder and is treated as such in Islamic Law. Local tribal laws can differ on that as is often the case in misguided regions of Pakistan or where Wahhabi types are in control.


:clap::clap:

Most interesting !! I thought I understood from another of Jafar's posts that Jafar would respect indigenous laws ?

Capital punishment was outlawed in Australia decades ago, Jafar ... the position you now take puts you in defiance of this, favouring Sharia Law instead.

Your statement - as you must know even better than I - is very different from a more typically Australian one.

I'm sure Anjem Choudary, he of 'I want to see Sharia Law dominate the entire world' would warmly approve !!

We also have freedom of speech in Australia. I can support one position even if it is in opposition of another. In the case of Australia, I follow Australian laws. Sorry to burst your little bubble there Drummond.


Unless the killer is a muslim and the victim is an infidel (Never should a muslim be killed in qisas for killing an unbeliever).

I know to what you are referring, and that was for non Muslims killed in battle during war only. Nice try.

[tailfins]

No. "Honour" killing is murder and is treated as such in Islamic Law. Local tribal laws can differ on that as is often the case in misguided regions of Pakistan or where Wahhabi types are in control.



We also have freedom of speech in Australia. I can support one position even if it is in opposition of another. In the case of Australia, I follow Australian laws. Sorry to burst your little bubble there Drummond.



I know to what you are referring, and that was for non Muslims killed in battle during war only. Nice try.

I find it a bit weird that when you support the conservative point of view on one issue, they still kick you in the nuts over it. I presume you would favor a death penalty where "society" is considered the victim and the killer gets a humane death penalty by lethal injection after a thorough examination of the charges by the judicial system. Am I correct in this presumption?

[stevecanuck]

I know to what you are referring, and that was for non Muslims killed in battle during war only. Nice try.

Another day, another lie from Jafar. Here's the hadith:

13: Volume: 9, Book Number: 83, Hadith Number: 50
Narrated Abu Juhaifa: I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."

Nothing in that about kafirs who are killed in battle. The underlined part is clearly a stand-alone statement. Just from a logical point of view your answer makes no sense anyway. Since muslims are only expected to fight kafirs, who else would they kill in a battle? It would be like saying they won't be killed in retaliation for killing their enemy in battle. That's what battles are for, so why state that which is so obvious? Your evasions get weaker by the day.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You mean the Babylonian laws that Islam copied... When they conquered the fertile crescent.

right?

That is how the concept of an Eye for an Eye and QISAS came to be a part of Islam.

It came from a mortal man, King Hammurabi. 3000 years before The Prophet(may peace be upon him) was born.

It wasn't a divine revelation to the Prophet (May peace be upon him).

Jafar completely ignored that post as I knew he would. -Tyr

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=631874#post631874)

I know to what you are referring, and that was for non Muslims killed in battle during war only. Nice try.



Another day, another lie from Jafar. Here's the hadith:

13: Volume: 9, Book Number: 83, Hadith Number: 50
Narrated Abu Juhaifa: I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."

Nothing in that about kafirs who are killed in battle. The underlined part is clearly a stand-alone statement. Just from a logical point of view your answer makes no sense anyway. Since muslims are only expected to fight kafirs, who else would they kill in a battle? It would be like saying they won't be killed in retaliation for killing their enemy in battle. That's what battles are for, so why state that which is so obvious? Your evasions get weaker by the day.


Cue jahil to say 'That is a hadith, not the Qur'aan. If it is not from the Qur'aan, it is not from Islam'. :rolleyes:

[Marcus Aurelius]

No. "Honour" killing is murder and is treated as such in Islamic Law. Local tribal laws can differ on that as is often the case in misguided regions of Pakistan or where Wahhabi types are in control.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/29/chechen-women-in-mortal-fear-as-president-backs-ho/?page=all

Chechnya's government (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/chechnyas-government/) is openly approving of families that kill female relatives who violate their sense of honor, as this Russian republic embraces a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam after decades of religious suppression under Soviet rule.



http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/43207


Against the backdrop of the Shafia honour-killing trial in Kingston, Montreal’s Concordia University graduate Sikander Ziad Hashmi, an imam with the Islamic Society of Kingston, tells us “there is no such thing as ‘honour killing’ in Islam.” Last week, Hashmi challenged readers of Canada’s National Post Full Commentonline to find one classical Islamic religious text that endorses the murder of a family member to preserve honour. PointdeBascule in Montreal answers the imam’s request by producing not one, but TWO Islamic texts stating that a father who kills his child must NOT be subject to punishment (“retaliation”).


The first text is “Umdat al-Saliq” or “Reliance of the Traveller”, a manual of Islamic law certified in 1991 as a reliable guide to Sunni Islam by Cairo’s renowned al-Azhar University, the most prestigious and authoritative institute of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence in the world. This manual, composed in the 14th century,states that punishment or “retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right” EXCEPT when “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers)” kills their “offspring, or offspring’s offspring” (section o1.1-2). In other words, a parent who murders his/her child for the sake of honour, is not penalized under Islamic law or Shariah.

Another text that supports the immunity for parents who kill their children was written by the Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini (1902-1989), an authority of Shiite Islam who led the Iranian Islamic revolution in 1979. In his book “Resaleh Towzih Al-Massael” or “A Clarification of Questions” published in 1961, Khomeini specifies under “conditions of retaliation” (section 2.3 of Appendix II) that there is no penalty for a father who kills his child, the father will simply not be punished under Islamic law. A killer is punished if: “The slayer is not the father of the slain, nor the parental grandfather (apparently)”.



Look at that... a Sunni and a Shiite source of Islamic teaching, saying there is honor killing in Islam.

And Jahil is caught in another lie.

[stevecanuck]

No. "Honour" killing is murder and is treated as such in Islamic Law.

You're over your lie-a-day quota. Verses 18:65 to 18:81 describe the honour killing of a youth committed by a man who "had been given special instruction by god". A horrified Moses witnessed the murder and demanded to know why the man had killed the youth. He explained to Moses that the youth was about to enter into rebellion and infidelity thereby shaming his parents, so he killed him so god could replace him with a better son. If that's not an honour killing, nothing is.

[jafar00]

You're over your lie-a-day quota. Verses 18:65 to 18:81 describe the honour killing of a youth committed by a man who "had been given special instruction by god". A horrified Moses witnessed the murder and demanded to know why the man had killed the youth. He explained to Moses that the youth was about to enter into rebellion and infidelity thereby shaming his parents, so he killed him so god could replace him with a better son. If that's not an honour killing, nothing is.


Do you know of anyone who has actually used the Story of Moses and Khidr to justify an "honour" killing which as I understand it is a pre-Islamic tribal custom that came from one or more members of the family bringing dishonour onto the rest of the family for some reason?

By your logic, can I use the story of Samson bringing the Philistine's (Palestinian's) temple down around him in the Bible as a justification for suicide bombings?

The story of Moses and Khidr is all about having patience, and not considering yourself the most knowledgeable about a subject because there will always be someone else who is more knowledgeable so you should be prepared to leave your comfort zone and get out there to learn. I should think you of all people could gain something from that.

[jafar00]

I find it a bit weird that when you support the conservative point of view on one issue, they still kick you in the nuts over it. I presume you would favor a death penalty where "society" is considered the victim and the killer gets a humane death penalty by lethal injection after a thorough examination of the charges by the judicial system. Am I correct in this presumption?

I don't know of a situation where society would be the victim in Qisas. It is supposed to be for murder, and the relatives of the victim get to decide the killer's fate. Whether the execution of the killer is by lethal injection or other "humane" method is of no consequence.


Another day, another lie from Jafar. Here's the hadith:

13: Volume: 9, Book Number: 83, Hadith Number: 50
Narrated Abu Juhaifa: I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."

Nothing in that about kafirs who are killed in battle. The underlined part is clearly a stand-alone statement. Just from a logical point of view your answer makes no sense anyway. Since muslims are only expected to fight kafirs, who else would they kill in a battle? It would be like saying they won't be killed in retaliation for killing their enemy in battle. That's what battles are for, so why state that which is so obvious? Your evasions get weaker by the day.


If it was not about wartime, why would the hadith mention "(ransom for) releasing of the captives"?

It is also considered a weak Hadith with only only one chain of narration, no other Hadiths to back it up and nothing like it is mentioned in the Qur'aan. For that reason, it could not be used as the basis for any Sharia ruling. On the contrary, in the Qur'aan verses like 6:151 and 17:33 are a hard counter to this Hadith, and to your argument.

Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. (6:151)

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). (17:33)

Islam is a religion of peace. Nowhere in Islam is there a command to kill someone just because you disagree with them or that they simply refuse to believe.

I know "Orientalists" like to use that Hadith to try and discredit Muslims, but do take the time to understand what you post about next time.

[red states rule]

No. "Honour" killing is murder and is treated as such in Islamic Law. Local tribal laws can differ on that as is often the case in misguided regions of Pakistan or where Wahhabi types are in control.

From what I have seen and read, Islam is NOT a religion

It is the worlds largest death cult

and people like you allow the evil to fester and grow

[Marcus Aurelius]

Dont you just love how Jahil uses some Hadiths to prove his point, saying how important Hadiths are in Islam... then calls Hadiths that do not support his point 'weak' and not substantiated by other Hadiths? He's trying ot have it both ways.

Not gonna fly here, pedophile worshiper.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...do take the time to understand what you post about next time.

Try taking your own advice for once, pedophile worshiper.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm

Most Muslim apologists and also some gullible westerners want to argue that the ‘so called “honor killing” is not Islamic and it’s a tribal/cultural vice.’ This statement is utterly untrue and only a wish full covers up. It’s true that in pre-Islamic Arab culture this heinous honor killing of women did exist; likewise, many other uncivilized practices like stoning, flogging, beheading, slavery etc also existed in the pre-Islamic Arab society. But Islam did incorporate entirely most of these inhumane/uncivilized practices of pagan society, which they now call them Allah’s laws.

Had it been the tribal/cultural practice, ‘honor killing’ would exist amongst the Arabs only. But honor killing does happen amongst the non-Arab Muslims also. Also Arabs belonged to all religions (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Bhai etc.) would practice honor killing with equal prevalence. Fact of the matter is—no Arab Christians, Jews or Bahai etc do practice this uncivilized act at all. Only Arab Muslims do practice this heinous act with a regular pattern.

Honor killing does happen only amongst the Muslims and these honor killings get support and encouragement from the ethical teachings of religion Islam. In 1986 this kind of honor killing did happen in the United States of America in an Arab Muslim family. In 2003 honor killing happened in Sweden again in a Muslim family. However, some very rare, sporadic case of such killing might have happened in other society or people of other religion. But they are no where near to compare with the regular pattern, or routine feature of honor killings which do happen in the Muslim nations that I have mentioned. It has been reported that in Pakistan and in Jordan several hundreds of “honor killings” do happen every year. Perhaps, it will be more plausible to name this so called ‘honor’ as the “Islamic honor”, which Muslims stupendously try to save by killing their love one!


The Saudi Ambassador to London, Ghazi al-Qusaibi, says that stoning may seem irrational to the western mind, but it is "at the core of the Islamic faith."


Al Skudsi bin Hookah , (roving reporter and foreign correspondent for The Gaza Gajeera.):
“I am very unhappy. Our way of life is under attack. And we are not fighting back. Deep down, we know that when a woman has disgraced her family, nothing will restore honor except by killing her. This is understood in Jordan, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Egypt, the Gaza strip and the West Bank. So why are we Arabs telling the Western press that honor killing is cultural, that it is not really part of Islam? Our way of life is based on maintaining our honor. And make no mistake about it: a woman does tarnish her family's honor by engaging in pre-marital sex, or by getting herself raped, when she seeks divorce and when she marries against her family's wishes. And keeping our women pure is a big part of our honor.

So there's no point saying honor killing isn't really part of our religion. Honor and Islam are inextricably bound; they are what give our life meaning. A strong religion demands we choose to maintain our honor.”
let me guess, Jahil... this last guy isn't 'really' Islamic... right?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Z7UYuYgiQ


A manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2). In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.

In accord with this, in 2003 the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings.

Al-Jazeera reported that "Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values."

Al-Jazeera, the source Jahil most trusts for honest and factual reporting, says that "Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values." So, even Jahirs favorite news source says Islamists support honor killing.

Let me guess, Jahil... Al-jazeera and the Islamists they reported on are not 'really' Islamic... right?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://voicesofthefaceless.com/2012/01/31/islam-is-honor-killings-allowed-yes/


Quran (18:65-81) (http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/018-qmt.php#018.065) – This is the Sura and verses that lays the foundation for honor killings for just the thought that a child would commit disobedience and ingratitude. It goes even further in stating that you might even be given a better “son” than the one you had before by Allah. So this is the justification for Islam for their honor killings. When Muslims tells you that honor killings are not condoned in Islam it is just because they don’t know their own religion, they chose to deny the passages exist or they are lying. So this action was allowed for nothing more than the boy was thought that he would bring shame to the family. He had not yet. So you don’t even have to bring shame. All you have to do is be thought to bring shame in the future. That’s is enough for your death warrant by your loving family. Good wholesome family values that Islam brings to the table. Yeah, religion of peace my ass.


Now you have your answer as to why so many countries who practice Islam give little to no jail time to the families who kill their loved ones particular girls in honor killings. It is because it is sanctioned by the Quran and not considered a murder according to the Fiqh if done by parents or grandparents. So the countries are keeping their laws in accordance to the Quran, Sunnah and Fiqh.
So the next time a Muslim tells you that Honor Killings are not allowed; just tell them they are and show them Sura 18:65-81 and the Fiqh.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://voicesofthefaceless.com/2012/01/31/islam-is-honor-killings-allowed-yes/




So you don’t even have to bring shame. All you have to do is be thought to bring shame in the future. That’s is enough for your death warrant by your loving family. Good wholesome family values that Islam brings to the table. Yeah, religion of peace my ass.

Death is a highly cultivated action in the Religion of Peace!! Of course they choose to call MURDER ---- death.--Tyr

[Robert A Whit]

Hijacked?

Certainly I am the only HOA expert posting on this forum.

You are the only expert on you being a dumb ass.


Robert. Don't tell anyone else but. You ARE expert at Not Minding Your Own Business here.

And your expertise is solely as a perfection expert on being a Dumb Ass. (Your words, not mine)

Had you minded your own business, you would not have been a dumb ass and made that up. My words is that Mark is the expert dumb ass, and now you join him.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Had you minded your own business, you would not have been a dumb ass and made that up. My words is that Mark is the expert dumb ass, and now you join him.

stick with the topic, dumb ass.

[jimnyc]

Everyone, please stay on topic. I asked nicely yesterday. These little fights should be in the cage, and all I ask is just that. I'd rather not use thread banning and moving stuff there. Address the topic at hand, or go to the cage.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40234-Honor-killing-pregnant-woman-throat-cut-and-belly-slashed-open!-Islam-speaks!&p=631752#post631752

[stevecanuck]

I don't know of a situation where society would be the victim in Qisas. It is supposed to be for murder, and the relatives of the victim get to decide the killer's fate. Whether the execution of the killer is by lethal injection or other "humane" method is of no consequence.



If it was not about wartime, why would the hadith mention "(ransom for) releasing of the captives"?

It is also considered a weak Hadith with only only one chain of narration, no other Hadiths to back it up and nothing like it is mentioned in the Qur'aan. For that reason, it could not be used as the basis for any Sharia ruling. On the contrary, in the Qur'aan verses like 6:151 and 17:33 are a hard counter to this Hadith, and to your argument.

This happened before in my "Lies..." thread. I provided a hadith in which mohamed said to kill apostates (post 132), and in post 140 Jafar said it couldn't be used in sharia law because it wasn't backed up by another hadith. I then provided a second hadith (post 146), and Jafar ran away.

Better lace up the Nikes, Jafar, because it's about to happen again. In fact this hadith is even clearer than the first one. It's obvious that the 3 items from "this sheet of paper" are separate, stand-alone items, and that the last one clearly says muslims cannot be put to death for the killing of an infidel. You lose. Again.

1: Volume: 1, Book Number: 3, Hadith Number: 111
Narrated Ash-Sha'bi: Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet apart from the Qur'an)?' 'Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).' Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya (compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).



Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. (6:151)

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). (17:33)

Islam is a religion of peace. Nowhere in Islam is there a command to kill someone just because you disagree with them or that they simply refuse to believe.

I know "Orientalists" like to use that Hadith to try and discredit Muslims, but do take the time to understand what you post about next time.

According to your god, "just cause" is satisfied by no more than simply being an infidel. "Kill those who believe not in God" is not exactly hard to understand.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=631906#post631906)

I don't know of a situation where society would be the victim in Qisas. It is supposed to be for murder, and the relatives of the victim get to decide the killer's fate. Whether the execution of the killer is by lethal injection or other "humane" method is of no consequence.



If it was not about wartime, why would the hadith mention "(ransom for) releasing of the captives"?

It is also considered a weak Hadith with only only one chain of narration, no other Hadiths to back it up and nothing like it is mentioned in the Qur'aan. For that reason, it could not be used as the basis for any Sharia ruling. On the contrary, in the Qur'aan verses like 6:151 and 17:33 are a hard counter to this Hadith, and to your argument.

This happened before in my "Lies..." thread. I provided a hadith in which mohamed said to kill apostates (post 132), and in post 140 Jafar said it couldn't be used in sharia law because it wasn't backed up by another hadith. I then provided a second hadith (post 146), and Jafar ran away.

Better lace up the Nikes, Jafar, because it's about to happen again. In fact this hadith is even clearer than the first one. It's obvious that the 3 items from "this sheet of paper" are separate, stand-alone items, and that the last one clearly says muslims cannot be put to death for the killing of an infidel. You lose. Again.

1: Volume: 1, Book Number: 3, Hadith Number: 111
Narrated Ash-Sha'bi: Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet apart from the Qur'an)?' 'Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).' Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya (compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).


Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. (6:151)

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). (17:33)

Islam is a religion of peace. Nowhere in Islam is there a command to kill someone just because you disagree with them or that they simply refuse to believe.

I know "Orientalists" like to use that Hadith to try and discredit Muslims, but do take the time to understand what you post about next time.





According to your god, "just cause" is satisfied by no more than simply being an infidel. "Kill those who believe not in God" is not exactly hard to understand.

Jahil will now claim that Allah is not 'really' Islamic.

[aboutime]

Jahil will now claim that Allah is not 'really' Islamic.


Marcus. Which might explain this....4875

[stevecanuck]

This happened before in my "Lies..." thread. I provided a hadith in which mohamed said to kill apostates (post 132), and in post 140 Jafar said it couldn't be used in sharia law because it wasn't backed up by another hadith. I then provided a second hadith (post 146), and Jafar ran away.

Better lace up the Nikes, Jafar, because it's about to happen again. In fact this hadith is even clearer than the first one. It's obvious that the 3 items from "this sheet of paper" are separate, stand-alone items, and that the last one clearly says muslims cannot be put to death for the killing of an infidel. You lose. Again.

1: Volume: 1, Book Number: 3, Hadith Number: 111
Narrated Ash-Sha'bi: Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet apart from the Qur'an)?' 'Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).' Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya (compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).

Oh, Jaaaaaffffaaaarrrrrrrrrrr. Where aaaaaarrrrrrrrre you? If you think you're going to get away with sneaking out after being caught in a lie, you'd better think again.

[jafar00]

Oh, Jaaaaaffffaaaarrrrrrrrrrr. Where aaaaaarrrrrrrrre you? If you think you're going to get away with sneaking out after being caught in a lie, you'd better think again.

Do you want me to just agree with you and go out and kill some random people? Would that make you happy?

I think you should head off to Afghanistan. The Taliban could use a good twister of scripture like you.

I already explained that hadith in great detail. I don't need to do it again and for it to fall on deaf ears.

[aboutime]

Do you want me to just agree with you and go out and kill some random people? Would that make you happy?

I think you should head off to Afghanistan. The Taliban could use a good twister of scripture like you.

I already explained that hadith in great detail. I don't need to do it again and for it to fall on deaf ears.


Actually jafar. You really should do as you asked above, and finally get to visit that 72 year old virgin man for your lasting Martyrdom to succeed. By the way. You need not worry about Deaf Ears if you use EARPLUGS before triggering the IED.

:(