Teenager commits suicide after photograph of her 'being gang-raped' goes viral

[jimnyc]

This is so sad. And it pisses me off to no end as well. How can these animals not only be sick enough to rape, but to want to take pictures? And then others took joy in passing them around? And then still, it goes viral? How many assholes out there propagate something like this? I hope every last one of these scumbags rots, all of them.


Rehtaeh Parsons, 17, was found by her mother in the bathroom of their family home in Nova Scotia shortly after she hanged herself.

Her family said her suicide was the result of almost two years of bullying and depression after a photo purporting to show her being raped by four boys went viral and spread through her school in Dartmouth.

The photo of the incident reportedly also included one of the boys present posing with a smile and a thumbs up.

Speaking to CTV News in Canada, Leah Parsons said the attack occurred in November 2011 when her daughter was just 15. After drinking vodka with others at a friend's house, Rehtaeh soon became heavily intoxicated.

"The group began drinking vodka straight. Rehtaeh didn't remember all of it [but] she remembers a guy leading her up the stairs [and] guys taking turns on top of her."

It was then that the boys took pictures of the attack and of her vomiting out the window.

Her mother said severe bullying and trauma following the incident meant Rehtaeh never fully recovered. According to Ms Parsons, Rehtaeh was repeatedly called a "slut" by fellow pupils and regularly received text messages jokingly asking for sex.

Despite moving schools and to a different community entirely, she continued to suffer from depression and was forced to spend almost six weeks in hospital as she became increasingly suicidal.

She hanged herself on Thursday and was taken off life support by her family on Sunday evening.

In a Facebook page dedicated to the memory of Rehtaeh, which has received support from over 10,000 people, Ms Parsons recalled how the attack had scarred her daughter.

"This day changed the lives of our family forever," she wrote.

"Rehtaeh was suddenly shunned by almost everyone she knew, the harassment was so bad she had to move out of her own community to try to start anew.

"She acted on an impulse but I truly in my heart of hearts do not feel she meant to kill herself."

The police did not arrest or convict anyone in connection with the incident, citing a lack of evidence. Authorities have not yet responded to a request from The Telegraph for comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/9985196/Teenager-commits-suicide-after-photograph-of-her-being-gang-raped-goes-viral.html

[Kathianne]

Heartbreaking. No other way to express it.

I wonder though down the line, how many others will consider or succeed in taking their own lives from this incident. Including the males?

[hjmick]

Rehtaeh Parsons Suicide: Canada Anonymous to Expose Gang Rapists (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/455998/20130411/anonymous-name-rapists-suicide-rehtaeh-parsons-nova.htm)


Not a huge fan of the douchebags, but I hope they follow through with this...

[jimnyc]

Rehtaeh Parsons Suicide: Canada Anonymous to Expose Gang Rapists (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/455998/20130411/anonymous-name-rapists-suicide-rehtaeh-parsons-nova.htm)


Not a huge fan of the douchebags, but I hope they follow through with this...

Yep, and they only made the threat if the police and DA don't take legal action. No way ANY of these guys should skate, or anyone involved in the disseminating of these felonious pictures.

[PostmodernProphet]

I'm puzzled why the girl's father hasn't killed them already......

[jimnyc]

Even sadder that I find another story so similar. Society really is going down the shitter as I've stated so many times before. :(


SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) — Eight days after allegedly being sexually battered while passed out at a party, and then humiliated by online photos of the assault, 15-year-old Audrie Pott posted on Facebook that her life was ruined, "worst day ever," and hanged herself.

For the next eight months, her family struggled to figure out what happened to their soccer loving, artistic, horse crazy daughter, whose gentle smile, long dark hair and shining eyes did not bely a struggling soul.

And then on Thursday, seven months after the tragedy, a Northern California sheriff's office arrested three 16-year-old boys on charges of sexual battery.

"The family has been trying to understand why their loving daughter would have taken her life at such a young age and to make sure that those responsible would be held accountable," said family attorney Robert Allard.

"After an extensive investigation that we have conducted on behalf of the family, there is no doubt in our minds that the victim, then only 15 years old, was savagely assaulted by her fellow high school students while she lay on a bed completely unconscious."

Allard said students used cell phones to share photos of the attack, and that the images went viral.

Santa Clara County Sheriff's Lt. Jose Cardoza said it arrested two of the teens at Saratoga High School and the third, a former Saratoga High student, at Christopher High School in Gilroy on Thursday. The names of the suspects were not released because they are minors.

Cardoza said the suspects were booked into juvenile hall and face two felonies and one misdemeanor each, all related to sexual battery that allegedly occurred at a Saratoga house party.

The lieutenant said the arrests were the result of information gathered by his agency's Saratoga High School resource officers. He said the investigation is ongoing, and Los Gatos police also continue looking into the girl's September suicide.

The Associated Press does not, as a rule, identify victims of sexual assault. But in this case, Pott's family wanted her name and case known, Allard said. The family also provided a photo to the AP.

The girl's family members did not comment and have requested privacy until a planned news conference Tuesday. Her father and step-mother Lawrence and Lisa Pott, along with her mother Sheila Pott, have started the Audrie Pott Foundation (audriepottfoundation.com) to provide music and art scholarships and offer youth counseling and support.

http://news.yahoo.com/3-teens-arrested-assault-girls-suicide-024221519.html

[tailfins]

Heartbreaking. No other way to express it.

I wonder though down the line, how many others will consider or succeed in taking their own lives from this incident. Including the males?

And just think: All this grief would have been avoided for all involved, including the males, if all had been instilled with an aversion to alcohol.

[Noir]

And just think: All this grief would have been avoided for all involved, including the males, if all had been instilled with an aversion to alcohol.

No, all grief would of been avoided, if those men hadn't chosen to be rapists.

[tailfins]

No, all grief would of been avoided, if those men hadn't chosen to be rapists.


They likely would not have committed the crime had they not been drinking. Alcohol impairs judgement.

[Noir]

They likely would not have committed the crime had they not been drinking. Alcohol impairs judgement.

So the grief *may* of been avoided, not certain though, they may well have raped her if they were sober too.

[Syrenn]

What the hell is going on?!? Is this some kind of epidemic now with teen boys? This is todays news here.......




Audrie Pott Suicide: Three teens arrested for alleged sexual assault of Calif. girl who committed suicide

SAN JOSE, Calif. - Authorities arrested three 16-year-old boys Thursday on charges that they sexually assaulted a 15-year-old who killed herself eight days after the attack. A family attorney said Audrie Pott was humiliated by online photos of the assault and posted on Facebook that her life was ruined, "worst day ever," and hanged herself. "The family has been trying to understand why their loving daughter would have taken her life at such a young age and to make sure that those responsible would be held accountable," said family attorney Robert Allard.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57579263-504083/audrie-pott-suicide-three-teens-arrested-for-alleged-sexual-assault-of-calif-girl-who-committed-suicide/

[Syrenn]

Heartbreaking. No other way to express it.

I wonder though down the line, how many others will consider or succeed in taking their own lives from this incident. Including the males?


sorry.... i would not be sorry if they did kill themselves. They do not deserve to live in my opinion.

[Syrenn]

They likely would not have committed the crime had they not been drinking. Alcohol impairs judgement.


i dont buy that for an instant. If drinking brought out the rapist in men, or men gang raping for sprot..... this would be an everyday occurrence with adult drunks as well as something being done since the advent of alcohol.

[Robert A Whit]

i dont buy that for an instant. If drinking brought out the rapist in men, or men gang raping for sprot..... this would be an everyday occurrence with adult drunks as well as something being done since the advent of alcohol.

In the last year, a teen from Saratoga, CA was also raped and put on the internet and she too took her own life.


<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->http://www.mercurynews.com/saratoga/ci_23008220/south-bay-teens-arrested-rape-case-tied-girls

Teens arrested in rape case tied to Saratoga High student's suicideBy Eric Kurhi

ekurhi@mercurynews.com


Posted: 04/11/2013 07:42:01 PM PDT
Updated: 04/12/2013 07:07:13 AM PDT

Related Stories


Apr 12:
Lawyer: Calif suicide victim's family in seclusion (http://www.mercurynews.com/saratoga/ci_23010453/3-teens-arrested-assault-after-girls-suicide?source=pkg)
Apr 11:
Canada minister to oversee probe to teen’s suicide (http://www.mercurynews.com/saratoga/ci_23008071/canada-minister-oversee-probe-teen-rsquo-s-suicide?source=pkg)
Apr 9:
Mom: Teen kills herself after rape, bullying (http://www.mercurynews.com/saratoga/ci_22989768/mom-teen-kills-herself-after-rape-bullying?source=pkg)
Sep 25:
Saratoga High, community deals with the tragic loss of 15-year-old (http://www.mercurynews.com/saratoga/ci_21630447/saratoga-high-community-deals-tragic-loss-15-year?source=pkg)




SARATOGA -- Three 16-year-old boys were arrested Thursday in the sexual battery of an intoxicated and unconscious 15-year-old Saratoga High School student, who killed herself last fall after photos of the assault went viral.
When digital photos showing what had happened "spread like wildfire," the aftermath was so humiliating and torturous the gifted and well-loved Audrie Pott could no longer take it, said Robert Allard, the attorney for her family.
"Poor Audrie was terrorized by cyberbullying," Allard said.
She posted on Facebook, calling it the "worst day in her life," a life she now wanted to end -- which she did Sept. 10, eight days after the assault.

[Thunderknuckles]

i dont buy that for an instant. If drinking brought out the rapist in men, or men gang raping for sprot..... this would be an everyday occurrence with adult drunks as well as something being done since the advent of alcohol.
Agreed. This isn't a question of bad judgement. It's about a lack of any sense of morality. I did plenty of foolish things partying back in high school. Gang raping a girl was never even a consideration. That's just so far off the reservation I can't begin to comprehend how that thought even gets started.

[aboutime]

They likely would not have committed the crime had they not been drinking. Alcohol impairs judgement.


No excuse. Often tried, but generally not convincing enough to FORGIVE them of what they did.

[Syrenn]

Agreed. This isn't a question of bad judgement. It's about a lack of any sense of morality. I did plenty of foolish things partying back in high school. Gang raping a girl was never even a consideration. That's just so far off the reservation I can't begin to comprehend how that thought even gets started.


I think its a bit more then that, morals not the least of them.

there is a lot of things going one here in my opinion.....

There is a lack of humanity and empathy. It is being displayed by both the perpetrators and the spectators.

Baser animalistic profiles seem to be surfacing. There is an attitude of live in the moment, do what you want, take what you need and never thinking about what may happen next.

Parents, even if they dont realize it are enabling all of this. They are providing places for these parties... money and access to alcohol, cell phones and internet access, freedom to go to parties.

[fj1200]

Parents, even if they dont realize it are enabling all of this. They are providing places for these parties... money and access to alcohol, cell phones and internet access, freedom to go to parties.

And should be the subject of a lawsuit with the risk of a hefty judgement.

[aboutime]

I think its a bit more then that, morals not the least of them.

there is a lot of things going one here in my opinion.....

There is a lack of humanity and empathy. It is being displayed by both the perpetrators and the spectators.

Baser animalistic profiles seem to be surfacing. There is an attitude of live in the moment, do what you want, take what you need and never thinking about what may happen next.

Parents, even if they dont realize it are enabling all of this. They are providing places for these parties... money and access to alcohol, cell phones and internet access, freedom to go to parties.


Sad to say, or even admit. This is the product, or result of NON-Parental guidance across this entire nation.
No longer a RIGHT or WRONG. GOOD or BAD.
Parents...if they are around. Just want to be friends of their misguided children to avoid embarrassment, or being labeled as harsh by others who are exactly the same.
It all falls on the shoulders of ABSENT parenting in the end.
Like Obama. Parents blame others, make all kinds of excuses, and rely on the expression "I can't watch them 24 hours a day!"
That may be true. But. If they bothered to teach their children about responsibility, morality, and the differences between Right and Wrong...rather than turning a Blind eye, using excuses to justify the actions of their POOR CHILD.
We might not be seeing so much of this LAWLESSNESS taking place.
On the other hand. Why should children pay attention?
Look at the examples they have around them.
A president, much like Bill Clinton. Who lies, lied, and blames others for not respecting, or following the laws.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Syrenn http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=630853#post630853)

I think its a bit more then that, morals not the least of them.

there is a lot of things going one here in my opinion.....

There is a lack of humanity and empathy. It is being displayed by both the perpetrators and the spectators.

Baser animalistic profiles seem to be surfacing. There is an attitude of live in the moment, do what you want, take what you need and never thinking about what may happen next.

Parents, even if they dont realize it are enabling all of this. They are providing places for these parties... money and access to alcohol, cell phones and internet access, freedom to go to parties.



But, when I tried to get your agreement on sex, you kept on saying kids will be kids and this is just how it is and that it is peers fault.

I am happy to learn you now realize parents have the major role.

As you now ssy, I was also saying parents enable all of this.

[aboutime]

But, when I tried to get your agreement on sex, you kept on saying kids will be kids and this is just how it is and that it is peers fault.

I am happy to learn you now realize parents have the major role.

As you now ssy, I was also saying parents enable all of this.


Robert. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will you ever get me to agree with you ON SEX. I don't go that route. Otherwise....WTF?

[Noir]

Parents, even if they dont realize it are enabling all of this. They are providing places for these parties... money and access to alcohol, cell phones and internet access, freedom to go to parties.

No, the fault lies only, and soley, with the rapists.

[Thunderknuckles]

Robert. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will you ever get me to agree with you ON SEX. I don't go that route. Otherwise....WTF?
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[DragonStryk72]

They likely would not have committed the crime had they not been drinking. Alcohol impairs judgement.

But it doesn't make you want to rape anyone. I've been drunk before myself, as well as growing up in recovery and hearing the stories of my dad's AA buddies. It might remove your inhibitions a ways, but point for point, rape was already on their minds, and booze was simply a method.

Truthfully, sick bastards like this have existed as long as the human race has, it's more that we are just more aware of it now, due to thing such as the news and youtube. The kind of sick assholes that would rape a woman and brag about it to their buddies isn't new or special, and we should not treat it as such. The main problem these days is a lack of consequences for the rapists. They literally posted a video to the internet, but there's no evidence? Bullshit.

There was a time when they would get found out, and their lives, if not just over, would be a living hell. Assuming you survived the father and/or mother's vengeance, there's every father in the town with a daughter to worry about.

[DragonStryk72]

I think its a bit more then that, morals not the least of them.

there is a lot of things going one here in my opinion.....

There is a lack of humanity and empathy. It is being displayed by both the perpetrators and the spectators.

Baser animalistic profiles seem to be surfacing. There is an attitude of live in the moment, do what you want, take what you need and never thinking about what may happen next.

Parents, even if they dont realize it are enabling all of this. They are providing places for these parties... money and access to alcohol, cell phones and internet access, freedom to go to parties.

You know, tons of parties go on without sexaul assault, and they've been happening for quite some time, with or without parental knowledge. This was also not a party, per the article. She went to hang out with a group of boys she trusted (Which is basically the largest demographic of who commits a rape), and had to much to drink. Was there pressure to do so, or was she okay with having a drink because she was with people she trusted? We'll never know.

It's more comforting to find something else to blame, be it the alcohol, the parents, or whatnot, because the honest answer, that the capacity to be this way lies in every human being, is difficult to accept or consider.

Now this isn't to say prevention can't be done, but it's not a matter of parties or no parties. A teenager, properly raised, is of no threat at a party. The first step is that parents have to stop being their kid's friend first, and a parent second. Growing up, I had a very close relationship with my mom, but on the other side of that, I would have been terrified if I got caught doing something as small as shoplifting, left alone any larger crime.

By removing real consequences for a kids actions, parents are essentially teaching their kids that there are only negligible consequences in the world, if any. Worse, a lot of times, never having had to deal with consequences before, they get the utter crap knocked out of them by them later in life, unsure of how to pick themselves up, or deal with the consequences.

[Robert A Whit]

Robert. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will you ever get me to agree with you ON SEX. I don't go that route. Otherwise....WTF?

Thank you but you were not who I commented to if you can still recall.

[Robert A Whit]

You know, tons of parties go on without sexaul assault, and they've been happening for quite some time, with or without parental knowledge. This was also not a party, per the article. She went to hang out with a group of boys she trusted (Which is basically the largest demographic of who commits a rape), and had to much to drink. Was there pressure to do so, or was she okay with having a drink because she was with people she trusted? We'll never know.

It's more comforting to find something else to blame, be it the alcohol, the parents, or whatnot, because the honest answer, that the capacity to be this way lies in every human being, is difficult to accept or consider.

Now this isn't to say prevention can't be done, but it's not a matter of parties or no parties. A teenager, properly raised, is of no threat at a party. The first step is that parents have to stop being their kid's friend first, and a parent second. Growing up, I had a very close relationship with my mom, but on the other side of that, I would have been terrified if I got caught doing something as small as shoplifting, left alone any larger crime.

By removing real consequences for a kids actions, parents are essentially teaching their kids that there are only negligible consequences in the world, if any. Worse, a lot of times, never having had to deal with consequences before, they get the utter crap knocked out of them by them later in life, unsure of how to pick themselves up, or deal with the consequences.

We know for a fact, not much that took place during both girls lives. Both were 15; both felt it fine to drink and both had shame or they would not have killed themselves. One in Canada and one close to San Jose, CA. But in general, that was some very good analysis the way I see it. Once kids take that first drink and enjoy it, the alcohol takes charge.

[Robert A Whit]

Sad to say, or even admit. This is the product, or result of NON-Parental guidance across this entire nation.
No longer a RIGHT or WRONG. GOOD or BAD.
Parents...if they are around. Just want to be friends of their misguided children to avoid embarrassment, or being labeled as harsh by others who are exactly the same.
It all falls on the shoulders of ABSENT parenting in the end.
Like Obama. Parents blame others, make all kinds of excuses, and rely on the expression "I can't watch them 24 hours a day!"
That may be true. But. If they bothered to teach their children about responsibility, morality, and the differences between Right and Wrong...rather than turning a Blind eye, using excuses to justify the actions of their POOR CHILD.
We might not be seeing so much of this LAWLESSNESS taking place.
On the other hand. Why should children pay attention?
Look at the examples they have around them.
A president, much like Bill Clinton. Who lies, lied, and blames others for not respecting, or following the laws.

Well I will be damned. I have said much the same things but you told me you refuse to agree with me.

What a crock of shit. We both agree on what you said and you have much parroted my own comments.

Make up your mind. Are you lying above or when you said you don't agree with me?

[DragonStryk72]

We know for a fact, not much that took place during both girls lives. Both were 15; both felt it fine to drink and both had shame or they would not have killed themselves. One in Canada and one close to San Jose, CA. But in general, that was some very good analysis the way I see it. Once kids take that first drink and enjoy it, the alcohol takes charge.

Well, teens see adults drinking, and adults makes such a huge deal of it, that they can't help but think of it as something they want to try. Notice that teens aren't sneaking hammers and saws to do a barn raising. The way in which we try to approach alcohol to teens has serious problems in that we are either talking down to them about it, or we're showing them this one percent scenario that doesn't remotely resemble their lives. In truth, we should approach more the way of an AA meeting. Instead of talking about fictional scenarios that don't take their real lives into account, we should be telling them of our own bad experiences with drinking, showing them the pitfalls, while grounding it in a reality that fits with their experiences.

Then of course, they try out drinking, and for the most part, not only does nothing bad happen, but they have a good time in general. Then of course, they're going to try again, and get careless with it. So basically, we've made alcohol so monumentally huge, that we've given it its own gravitational pull.

However, that still isn't a cause for committing rape. I mean, come on, we're all adults here. We've all had times where we've had a few more drinks than someone 50 lbs heavier than us should have had, but we didn't feel a need to commit gang-rape. The alcohol in this instance was a tool to make it so that she wouldn't be able to effectively struggle as much, and she was lured in by people that she most likely trusted, and who were more familiar with the deleterious effects of alcohol.

It's entirely possible that the full ramifications are finally hitting these boys, of what they did, and the consequences there of. Hopefully, this brings about some serious change in their lives, cause then, at least, some good will have come out of this whole disaster.

[jafar00]

Exactly. A lack of moral code leads to this kind of thing. Where drunken boys act like a pack of animals without guilt or consideration of the consequences.

Well done Atheists. This is your fault.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Exactly. A lack of moral code leads to this kind of thing. Where drunken boys act like a pack of animals without guilt or consideration of the consequences.

Well done Atheists. This is your fault.

Islam has no such animals right? That is why Sharia law enforces all females when out in public must be escorted by their husband or a male relative. Is because they are afraid the female may get lost, Jafar?
Or is it because the muslims were so prone to attack and rape females not a having a male bodyguard? We all know the correct answer...-Tyr

[aboutime]

Islam has no such animals right? That is why Sharia law enforces all females when out in public must be escorted by their husband or a male relative. Is because they are afraid the female may get lost, Jafar?
Or is it because the muslims were so prone to attack and rape females not a having a male bodyguard? We all know the correct answer...-Tyr


Tyr. There is a METHOD to their madness. The men who practice such Sharia law know they can use their women as protection. Standing behind them to avoid being targeted. We call that COWARDICE here in the USA. Where jafar's mind is. That is bravery. Hiding behind a women.

[Voted4Reagan]

Where are the Parents and why dont they know what their kids are doing?

[hjmick]

Where are the Parents and why dont they know what their kids are doing?


Okay, I've about had it with this line...


Look, sometimes, no matter how hard a parent or parents try, no matter how attentive they may be, sometimes kids are going to do what ever they want to do. When they do, the odds are the parents won't find out for some time, unless things go bad. Furthermore, sometimes, no matter how hard a parent or parents try, no matter how attentive they may be, despite the best efforts and all the resources parents can muster, sometimes kids don't turn out the way we want.

This by no means a defense of the animals who raped this girl, or any other. As far as I'm concerned, rape should be punishable by death. Yes, seriously. Don't judge me until you have fallen in love with, and lived every day with, a victim of rape.

This is a defense of the parents of the girl in question, and the animals who killed her.

Unless someone here has intimate knowledge of how this kids were parented, might I suggest we all pause before we blame the parents? Especially those of us who have raised, or are raising children ourselves. We all know how wily the little shits can be when they're young, they're three times as sneaky when they hit their teens...

[Robert A Whit]

Well, teens see adults drinking, and adults makes such a huge deal of it, that they can't help but think of it as something they want to try. Notice that teens aren't sneaking hammers and saws to do a barn raising. The way in which we try to approach alcohol to teens has serious problems in that we are either talking down to them about it, or we're showing them this one percent scenario that doesn't remotely resemble their lives. In truth, we should approach more the way of an AA meeting. Instead of talking about fictional scenarios that don't take their real lives into account, we should be telling them of our own bad experiences with drinking, showing them the pitfalls, while grounding it in a reality that fits with their experiences.

Then of course, they try out drinking, and for the most part, not only does nothing bad happen, but they have a good time in general. Then of course, they're going to try again, and get careless with it. So basically, we've made alcohol so monumentally huge, that we've given it its own gravitational pull.

However, that still isn't a cause for committing rape. I mean, come on, we're all adults here. We've all had times where we've had a few more drinks than someone 50 lbs heavier than us should have had, but we didn't feel a need to commit gang-rape. The alcohol in this instance was a tool to make it so that she wouldn't be able to effectively struggle as much, and she was lured in by people that she most likely trusted, and who were more familiar with the deleterious effects of alcohol.

It's entirely possible that the full ramifications are finally hitting these boys, of what they did, and the consequences there of. Hopefully, this brings about some serious change in their lives, cause then, at least, some good will have come out of this whole disaster.

Very well said. Boys will liquor them up praying to get some.

as we see, then they brag.

Parents have more control than than they may admit and it starts when they are toddlers. Toddlers that see bad behavior of parents expect it will be for them as they grow up to also experience.

[Syrenn]

But, when I tried to get your agreement on sex, you kept on saying kids will be kids and this is just how it is and that it is peers fault.

I am happy to learn you now realize parents have the major role.

As you now ssy, I was also saying parents enable all of this.



i said... kids will do exactly what they want ..... just as they did here.

your issues with sex and parents are not the same issues here.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Robert A Whit http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=630874#post630874)
But, when I tried to get your agreement on sex, you kept on saying kids will be kids and this is just how it is and that it is peers fault.

I am happy to learn you now realize parents have the major role.

As you now ssy, I was also saying parents enable all of this.


i said... kids will do exactly what they want ..... just as they did here.

your issues with sex and parents are not the same issues here.

When you and I agree, you ought to just admit it.

Of course as issues, both are the same things.

Not to act poorly but I believe I am close to understanding your ideas of raising kids.

[Noir]

Exactly. A lack of moral code leads to this kind of thing. Where drunken boys act like a pack of animals without guilt or consideration of the consequences.

Well done Atheists. This is your fault.

Now we're blaming atheists? Dear blesses.

So when muslims rape women, thats atheists fault too? And when muslim fathers murder their daughters for the shame of them having been raped, bloody atheists?

[PostmodernProphet]

Where are the Parents and why dont they know what their kids are doing?

good point....the boys parents also should have killed them.....

[Voted4Reagan]

Exactly. A lack of moral code leads to this kind of thing. Where drunken boys act like a pack of animals without guilt or consideration of the consequences.

Well done Atheists. This is your fault.

so thats what you blame the actions of those men in Tahrir Square for when they gang Raped Lara Logan?

they weren't Atheists, they were members of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Certainly they acted like a pack of animals without Alcohol because as Muslims they are forbidden from drinking it.

Jafar, did they themselves consider the consequences?

Do not cast aspersions and promulgate the stereotype that westerners cant control themselves.

This happens everywhere regardless of Alcohol, Drugs or Religious affiliation.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Now we're blaming atheists? Dear blesses.

So when muslims rape women, thats atheists fault too? And when muslim fathers murder their daughters for the shame of them having been raped, bloody atheists?

Well, don't feel pregnant Noir. Jafar and his boys have Atheists high on their extermination list. In fact , at the number one spot! Atheists deny that Allah exists(always punishable by death sentence), off with their heads is etched in stone in their religion.

Sure as I have pointed out,they have Sharia law that enforces that their females when out in public must be escorted by a husband or male relative ! That is to protect the "walking property" of one muslim from being attacked and raped by another muslim! Why the law so rigid, restrictive and insanely over protective? Answer- because these supposed religious muslim men will rape an unescorted woman so damn often!
That is the true morality of this so-called Religion of Peace.

[tailfins]

Well, teens see adults drinking, and adults makes such a huge deal of it, that they can't help but think of it as something they want to try. Notice that teens aren't sneaking hammers and saws to do a barn raising. The way in which we try to approach alcohol to teens has serious problems in that we are either talking down to them about it, or we're showing them this one percent scenario that doesn't remotely resemble their lives. In truth, we should approach more the way of an AA meeting. Instead of talking about fictional scenarios that don't take their real lives into account, we should be telling them of our own bad experiences with drinking, showing them the pitfalls, while grounding it in a reality that fits with their experiences.

Then of course, they try out drinking, and for the most part, not only does nothing bad happen, but they have a good time in general. Then of course, they're going to try again, and get careless with it. So basically, we've made alcohol so monumentally huge, that we've given it its own gravitational pull.

However, that still isn't a cause for committing rape. I mean, come on, we're all adults here. We've all had times where we've had a few more drinks than someone 50 lbs heavier than us should have had, but we didn't feel a need to commit gang-rape. The alcohol in this instance was a tool to make it so that she wouldn't be able to effectively struggle as much, and she was lured in by people that she most likely trusted, and who were more familiar with the deleterious effects of alcohol.

It's entirely possible that the full ramifications are finally hitting these boys, of what they did, and the consequences there of. Hopefully, this brings about some serious change in their lives, cause then, at least, some good will have come out of this whole disaster.

It no longer matters what changes come about in their lives. They're done for. Most likely they will become tougher and more violent criminals at Convict University. As someone who always avoided parties and alcohol, I don't have a basis to evaluate what you say. I would guess that at least some guys that thought about rape when sober decided it wasn't such a good idea after giving it some thought. Are you trying to tell me that the average sober guy is just as likely to rape as the average intoxicated guy?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

We all know how wily the little shits can be when they're young, they're three times as sneaky when they hit their teens...

I beg to differ. They are at least ten times as sneaky when in their teens. ;)
I know this about kids sometimes they for reason simply not known to man do crazy crap and sometimes that crazy crap is illegal and extremely harmful to either them or others. I have seen it happen and know for a fact it was in no way the parents fault in that incident.
However American parents are far too lenient on their kids and far too often defend their kid's actions when the kid is clearly in the wrong. When that is a repetitive pattern with a parent the kids often think they can just do anything they want.
Rape is never permissible and no justification ever exists for it to be so.. As far as I am concerned those kids should each get 40 years to life for their crime. Any adult proven without a doubt to be guilty of rape should be executed IMHO.. --Tyr

[Noir]

Why the law so rigid, restrictive and insanely over protective? Answer- because these supposed religious muslim men will rape an unescorted woman so damn often!

*head in hands*
When i thought the thread could get no worse... XD

[DragonStryk72]

It no longer matters what changes come about in their lives. They're done for. Most likely they will become tougher and more violent criminals at Convict University. As someone who always avoided parties and alcohol, I don't have a basis to evaluate what you say. I would guess that at least some guys that thought about rape when sober decided it wasn't such a good idea after giving it some thought. Are you trying to tell me that the average sober guy is just as likely to rape as the average intoxicated guy?

Dear God, how did you even get that from what I said? Apparently, there is no redemption, so Jesus died for nothing? There is no chance for redemption in anyone? And I can't even hope that change and redemption are possible?

[DragonStryk72]

Okay, I've about had it with this line...


Look, sometimes, no matter how hard a parent or parents try, no matter how attentive they may be, sometimes kids are going to do what ever they want to do. When they do, the odds are the parents won't find out for some time, unless things go bad. Furthermore, sometimes, no matter how hard a parent or parents try, no matter how attentive they may be, despite the best efforts and all the resources parents can muster, sometimes kids don't turn out the way we want.

This by no means a defense of the animals who raped this girl, or any other. As far as I'm concerned, rape should be punishable by death. Yes, seriously. Don't judge me until you have fallen in love with, and lived every day with, a victim of rape.

This is a defense of the parents of the girl in question, and the animals who killed her.

Unless someone here has intimate knowledge of how this kids were parented, might I suggest we all pause before we blame the parents? Especially those of us who have raised, or are raising children ourselves. We all know how wily the little shits can be when they're young, they're three times as sneaky when they hit their teens...

Okay, I can understand your point, but I'm not talking about the girl's parents. Teenagers are going to make some ill-advised choices, that's just the reality of things. My point about of what the hell happened to the parents is with the boys. It is one thing to "slip", but it is wholly another to have no issue with gang-raping a girl, videotaping it, and handing it out to people.

[Kathianne]

But it doesn't make you want to rape anyone. I've been drunk before myself, as well as growing up in recovery and hearing the stories of my dad's AA buddies. It might remove your inhibitions a ways, but point for point, rape was already on their minds, and booze was simply a method.

Truthfully, sick bastards like this have existed as long as the human race has, it's more that we are just more aware of it now, due to thing such as the news and youtube. The kind of sick assholes that would rape a woman and brag about it to their buddies isn't new or special, and we should not treat it as such. The main problem these days is a lack of consequences for the rapists. They literally posted a video to the internet, but there's no evidence? Bullshit.

There was a time when they would get found out, and their lives, if not just over, would be a living hell. Assuming you survived the father and/or mother's vengeance, there's every father in the town with a daughter to worry about.

I totally agree. Rapists, whether of women, men or children are predators. Sober they would likely not have shown their faces on video, but they would still be predators.

Alcohol doesn't create the impulses, it weakens the controls one exercises normally. A shy person may have a very 'dramatic scenario' playing in their head, have a few drinks, the person within may come out. Not much different with those monsters we often do not see. A few drinks and they emerge. Alcohol didn't create the monsters, just provided the lubricant for the monster to free themselves of constraints.

[hjmick]

Okay, I can understand your point, but I'm not talking about the girl's parents. Teenagers are going to make some ill-advised choices, that's just the reality of things. My point about of what the hell happened to the parents is with the boys. It is one thing to "slip", but it is wholly another to have no issue with gang-raping a girl, videotaping it, and handing it out to people.

Dragon, sometimes kids are just not wired right. You get one dominant sociopath and two weak followers, that's a recipe for trouble and tragedy.


I draw upon my own experience when I defend parents before all the facts are known. My stepdaughter. Despite all that her mother and I did for her, despite all the supervision, despite all the love, despite all the help we got her, despite all the money spent, the fights the tough love, the soft love, despite all that we did, all that we tried, she still wound ud a thirty year old drug addict and a thief who spends as much time in jail as she does out.


Sometimes it just happens. No matter how hard the parents try and no matter what they do.

[Jeff]

I'm puzzled why the girl's father hasn't killed them already......


That was my first thought

This is just plain disgusting , I wonder why these four boys haven't at least been put in jail yet and speaking of jail give the inmates cameras so they can take pictures as these four punks are raped and send them around the community

[DragonStryk72]

Dragon, sometimes kids are just not wired right. You get one dominant sociopath and two weak followers, that's a recipe for trouble and tragedy.


I draw upon my own experience when I defend parents before all the facts are known. My stepdaughter. Despite all that her mother and I did for her, despite all the supervision, despite all the love, despite all the help we got her, despite all the money spent, the fights the tough love, the soft love, despite all that we did, all that we tried, she still wound ud a thirty year old drug addict and a thief who spends as much time in jail as she does out.


Sometimes it just happens. No matter how hard the parents try and no matter what they do.

As may be, but I still think it is a valid question in this instance. I'm never going to be the guy that blames the victim, but I'd at least like to get to the root cause of the perps.

Of course, I'm also curious why the cops needed more evidence than the distributed video evidence of the rape. I mean, somehow I'm guessing they weren't entirely quiet in that video, and at least one of them had their dick out, so this is a little baffling to me.