Baby with Quranic verses

[jimnyc]

My friend brought this to my attention last night, and of course it ultimately led to harsh feelings! LOL He told me about a Muslim baby in Russia, where every week or so some verses of the Quran appear on his body, mostly the legs. First he showed me pictures to prove it. I told him I am a logical person, I would need to see more than that. He proceeded to show me videos on Youtube, but I wanted to see it actually happening to believe it to be true.

Then he told me I just wouldn't believe anything. He said the American media goes out of it's way to make Islam look bad and that's the reason we would NEVER see a story like this in the American media....

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/miracle-baby-koran-verses-infants-body/story?id=8889257

So much for that one! Anyway, I started reading some stories, as if true, it WOULD be miraculous, but I had a hard time believing this. These were the things I gathered and printed - and he was furious when I gave this to him and said it is nothing more than the work of the American media trying to disprove a miracle from Islam. You be the judge:


The Original Tabloid StoryA BABY boy has left doctors baffled after passages from the Koran were found on his skin.

The parents of nine-month-old Ali Yakubov were stunned when the word Allah appeared on his chin soon after his birth.

Since then scores of writings in Arabic script have emerged on his back, arms, legs and stomach.

Amazingly his family claim the old markings vanish before the new words arrive — twice a week.

Medics say they cannot explain his mysterious condition — but deny that the marks are from someone writing on the child's skin.

His mother, Madina, said that she and her husband were not religious until the words started appearing on his skin.

Initially they did not show anyone the unexplained scribbles, but eventually revealed them to their doctor.

Now the boy has become a focus of Muslim homage in his troubled home province of Dagestan, close to war-ravaged Chechnya in the south of Russia.

Local MP Akhmedpasha Amiralaev said: "This boy is a pure sign of God. Allah sent him to Dagestan in order to stop revolts and tension in our republic."

The tot's mother said: "Normally those signs appear twice a week - on Mondays and on the nights between Thursdays and Fridays.

"Ali always feels bad when it is happening. He cries and his temperature goes up.
"It's impossible to hold him when it's happening, his body is actively moving, so we put him into his cradle. It's so hard to watch him suffering."[/QUOTE]

Most Likely ExplanationAnother story published on the same day provides us with further information. What the tabloid story ignored was the fact that some local doctors believe that it is not a miracle from Allah, but a simple case of child abuse:

A representative of Dagestan Spiritual Governance for Muslims did not provide any comments. He said he was surprised like everyone else.

Medics do not believe in religious miracles, of course. Ludmila Luss, a local doctor, believes that the story with the inscriptions is masterminded by the boy’s parents, Utro.ru website wrote.
“They might have treated his skin with irritants, such as pepper and salt, or medications, which trigger skin inflammation and leave red traces in the shape of Arabic characters,” she said.[/QUOTE]

Dermatographic Urticaria (Skin Writing)
Local doctors also suggested urticarial dermographism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatographic_urticaria) as another possibly explanation.

The parents may not have used any substances or medications, if the child suffers from urticarial dermographism, also known as skin writing, – a skin disorder that occurs with five percent of the nation’s population. It is one of the most common types of urticaria, in which the skin becomes raised and inflamed when stroked or rubbed with a dull object. Therefore, if the child has such a disorder, writing anything on his skin is a piece of cake.

“Some people suffering from gastric pathologies have extremely sensitive skin. If you draw something on their skin with a little stick, for example, the drawing will later appear,” Ludmila Luss [a local doctor] said.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatographic_urticaria
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Baby_with_Qur%27anic_Verses

http://i.imgur.com/2PD4JSg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fySZi4A.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2tAW69Q.jpg

[aboutime]

jimnyc: What bewilders me about seeing stuff like that is. Right here, in our own nation. There are thousands of people who do the same thing, and they honestly see nothing wrong with it.
This is just another sign...though it may be small. Of how our society is falling slowly, but intentionally apart.
If we say anything negative about this kind of thing. WE become the SICK ONES...according to those who become offended.

[gabosaurus]

Muslim hate thread No. 12,337. Guess it never gets old. :rolleyes:

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif

[aboutime]

Muslim hate thread No. 12,337. Guess it never gets old. :rolleyes:

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif


And YOU make it number 12,338 Gabby.

[jimnyc]

Muslim hate thread No. 12,337. Guess it never gets old. :rolleyes:

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif

Once again, posting without reading. How is ANYTHING I wrote "hate"? It's something that stemmed from conversation, I read it, and I "believe" I proved it wrong. Please explain the hate here...

[tailfins]

Once again, posting without reading. How is ANYTHING I wrote "hate"? It's something that stemmed from conversation, I read it, and I "believe" I proved it wrong. Please explain the hate here...

Chronicling Islamic child abuse. It's obvious what REALLY happened here.

[jimnyc]

Chronicling Islamic child abuse. It's obvious what REALLY happened here.

By thanking Gabby you show you agree with her that this is about "hate". Care to explain why?

And IMO, what really happened here is a form of abuse. A stunt. Using a child to try and make a religious statement like that is stupid. Find a Christian person doing similar and I will gladly call them an idiot too. This is about a conversation I had, which lead to a search, which lead to a hoax.

[Abbey Marie]

Seems like the Virgin Mary face in grilled cheese stories, with the difference that we don't care about possible grilled cheese abuse.

[jimnyc]

For those that think my story is about hate - the friend I argued with disagrees. He just shared a bit of falafel (sp?) with me and some "kheer"? and home made ice cream. I go to get a refill of my coffee and get a late lunch instead!

[Abbey Marie]

For those that think my story is about hate - the friend I argued with disagrees. He just shared a bit of falafel (sp?) with me and some "kheer"? and home made ice cream. I go to get a refill of my coffee and get a late lunch instead!

That's cool, and I agree, but whatever your story is about, it's your right to tell it. :cool:

[jimnyc]

That's cool, and I agree, but whatever your story is about, it's your right to tell it. :cool:

Ah, Abdul and I are buddies. That's how you know a good friend, when you can disagree vehemently on subjects, and then shake hands and be friends and move forward.

[Marcus Aurelius]

For those that think my story is about hate - the friend I argued with disagrees. He just shared a bit of falafel (sp?) with me and some "kheer"? and home made ice cream. I go to get a refill of my coffee and get a late lunch instead!


Big Mac, felafel, and a side of fries!
Jame Taylor

[jimnyc]

Tail? Gabby? Either of you care to chime in as to why my thread, and/or my OP, is hate?

[Drummond]

Surely any form of child abuse ... and what you've reported, IS such .. has to qualify as a manifestation of 'hate' ?

It may be only indirectly so, but it IS so. After all, what else could be claimed ? Has the welfare of the child been respected, safety, wellbeing, happiness, first and foremost considerations for the parents ? OR, was all that put aside for the sake of a form of exploitation ?

Remember, there are Islamists out there who think nothing of strapping bombs to children. Or of brainwashing them into a life of indoctrinated hatred against the West. Or, of drilling 'values' into them which in later life turn into acts of cruelty or worse against others.

Life is VERY cheap in Islam. Cheap, enough, for sufficient hatred to endure, to lead to something like this.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tail? Gabby? Either of you care to chime in as to why my thread, and/or my OP, is hate?

They can not because nothing about it was hate.
If they give only silence then they have admitted that your premise is true IMHO. -Tyr

[Syrenn]

why do you keep talking religion with this guy?

[stevecanuck]

Ah, Abdul and I are buddies. That's how you know a good friend, when you can disagree vehemently on subjects, and then shake hands and be friends and move forward.

Just a sidebar here. Does your friend introduce himself as Abdul?

[jimnyc]

why do you keep talking religion with this guy?

I'm a sucker? I don't know really. The majority of the time it's usually just bouncing questions off of one another trying to learn, but sometimes it gets testy.

[jimnyc]

Just a sidebar here. Does your friend introduce himself as Abdul?

Yes. His real first name is "abderrahim" but to make it easier for everyone, he introduces himself as such to Americans, and his work shirt is just "Abdul" on it too.

[Syrenn]

I'm a sucker? I don't know really. The majority of the time it's usually just bouncing questions off of one another trying to learn, but sometimes it gets testy.

lol... you do realize neither of you will ever "learn" anything from each other.....

I am sure what he hears from you sounds like bullshit to him...just as what he spouts sounds like bullshit to you.

[stevecanuck]

Yes. His real first name is "abderrahim" but to make it easier for everyone, he introduces himself as such to Americans, and his work shirt is just "Abdul" on it too.

The reason I asked is that I lived in Egypt for 7 years and never heard one of the locals introduce himself to us expats as abdul because it makes no sense, and calling someone that in an Arabic speaking country would have sounded stupid.

In case you're interested what his name means, 'Abd' means 'servant (of)' or 'slave (of)', and 'ul' is actually 'al', which means 'the'. Put them together and you get abdul (or abdal to say it better and with the emphasis on the abd). That means 'servant of the', so you can see why it makes no sense. All names that begin with abdul are followed by one of the 99 names of god from the qur'an, giving them 99 different ways of saying 'servant of god', with the most literal being abdallah which actually does mean 'servant of god'. Al rahim means 'the compassionate', so his name is 'servant of the compassionate'. Assuming you're not bored to death at this point, the reason he pronounces it 'abderrahim' is for the same reason we don't say a apple. Half their alphabet is pronounced such that the 'l' in 'al' is replaced by the other letter, so that 'al rahim' becomes 'ar rahim', or 'er rahim', or 'ur rahim' depending on who's doing the transliteration. If you really want to drill deeper, the 'a' in 'abd' is not really an 'a', and in fact it's not even a vowel. It's a letter we don't have, and can't say properly called 'ayn' (which of course you are now pronouncing wrong). It's pronounced like trying to say 'ah' while dangling a piece of wet spaghetti down your throat. It's also the first letter in 'arab'. Ask your friend to say arab as he would say it to a fellow arab and listen for the difference.

[jimnyc]

lol... you do realize neither of you will ever "learn" anything from each other.....

I am sure what he hears from you sounds like bullshit to him...just as what he spouts sounds like bullshit to you.

Believe it or not, I have actually learned a lot. I think my friends sympathize a tad with ALL Islamic issues, but they are far from radicals. I learn regular Muslim things from them, about prayers, about eating and other customs. The majority of things are tension free.

It's when we compare, or get into things that involve death/abuse/women and such that we end up in arguments, but then we laugh about it.

But yeah, a lot is far fetched to me, and I know he snickers a lot when I answer some of his questions, but I'm not trying to convert him anyway, just answer questions!

[jimnyc]

The reason I asked is that I lived in Egypt for 7 years and never heard one of the locals introduce himself to us expats as abdul because it makes no sense, and calling someone that in an Arabic speaking country would have sounded stupid.

In case you're interested what his name means, 'Abd' means 'servant (of)' or 'slave (of)', and 'ul' is actually 'al', which means 'the'. Put them together and you get abdul (or abdal to say it better and with the emphasis on the abd). That means 'servant of the', so you can see why it makes no sense. All names that begin with abdul are followed by one of the 99 names of god from the qur'an, giving them 99 different ways of saying 'servant of god', with the most literal being abdallah which actually does mean 'servant of god'. Al rahim means 'the compassionate', so his name is 'servant of the compassionate'. Assuming you're not bored to death at this point, the reason he pronounces it 'abderrahim' is for the same reason we don't say a apple. Half their alphabet is pronounced such that the 'l' in 'al' is replaced by the other letter, so that 'al rahim' becomes 'ar rahim', or 'er rahim', or 'ur rahim' depending on who's doing the transliteration. If you really want to drill deeper, the 'a' in 'abd' is not really an 'a', and in fact it's not even a vowel. It's a letter we don't have, and can't say properly called 'ayn' (which of course you are now pronouncing wrong). It's pronounced like trying to say 'ah' while dangling a piece of wet spaghetti down your throat. It's also the first letter in 'arab'. Ask your friend to say arab as he would say it to a fellow arab and listen for the difference.


Very interesting indeed! I'll have to print this out. I know 2 of the others also incorporate Mohammed into their names too. We have "Mo" aka "Mooch" who is just plain out Muhammed. Then another friend is "Karim" who is also Karim Muhammed. Then another is "Jehad", and yes, that's an E and not an I. I believe he has Muhammed in there too. Abdul is Moroccan, as is Karim, and Jehad is from Jordan, and then we have Amir from Iran, and then Muhammed from KSA, and then lastly we have Eddie aka Salah, who is from Algeria.

And oh man, these guys talk just as much smack about one another behind their backs as they do Americans. In other words, they are just like us! They all love the Iranian, as he's a cop, but of course they don't like Shia. Also, he's married to a Catholic for a long time now, and the others say she should have converted within one year. So they like him, but disapprove of him. Then the Jordanian (and 3 other young'uns that also work there), also think the area of Morocco that the others came from is 'less than civilized' and they feel they are a step beneath them.

But then they have a feast at the end of Ramadan and everyone acts like family. So I guess they talk shit and gossip just like us!

[jimnyc]

Well, like I always said, people that can't backup their posts and intentions generally are posting on emotion and are void of facts. I'm honestly not surprised in the slightest that I got no replies about why this was "hate", as I knew that before I even asked. It must royally suck to have to dodge threads instead of answering the most basic of questions.

[tailfins]

Well, like I always said, people that can't backup their posts and intentions generally are posting on emotion and are void of facts. I'm honestly not surprised in the slightest that I got no replies about why this was "hate", as I knew that before I even asked. It must royally suck to have to dodge threads instead of answering the most basic of questions.

The hate comes from any lack of balance. The only "backup" I need is to point out a pattern.


Very interesting indeed! I'll have to print this out. I know 2 of the others also incorporate Mohammed into their names too. We have "Mo" aka "Mooch" who is just plain out Muhammed. Then another friend is "Karim" who is also Karim Muhammed. Then another is "Jehad", and yes, that's an E and not an I. I believe he has Muhammed in there too. Abdul is Moroccan, as is Karim, and Jehad is from Jordan, and then we have Amir from Iran, and then Muhammed from KSA, and then lastly we have Eddie aka Salah, who is from Algeria.

And oh man, these guys talk just as much smack about one another behind their backs as they do Americans. In other words, they are just like us! They all love the Iranian, as he's a cop, but of course they don't like Shia. Also, he's married to a Catholic for a long time now, and the others say she should have converted within one year. So they like him, but disapprove of him. Then the Jordanian (and 3 other young'uns that also work there), also think the area of Morocco that the others came from is 'less than civilized' and they feel they are a step beneath them.

But then they have a feast at the end of Ramadan and everyone acts like family. So I guess they talk shit and gossip just like us!

I come from a perspective of not needlessly antagonizing them if you want to witness to them. There's nothing wrong with pointing out positive social contributions of any religion with the intent of building some goodwill.

[jimnyc]

The hate comes from any lack of balance. The only "backup" I need is to point out a pattern.

While maybe a good investigative tool, lack of balance hardly equates to hate. Furthermore, you would need to look at the individual and not the group or entire board. Considering my friends, my ONLY friends here in NY, are ALL Muslim, I think I've given enough proof that I am not hating. I can't help it if I don't have friends of other faiths that I can tell stories about, based on conversations I had with them. I can assure you, that had I had a Christian friend who was telling me a story of Jesus appearing to him on a potato chip, my reaction and proving it wrong would be exactly the same. Being Steve is new to the board, and Jafar is always answering questions, I thought it was one hell of a story. Of course, I do admit, I thought the story was even better considering I searched a while before I found out what was enough information for me NOT to believe it.

But anyway, if you want to label what I did as hate, and your only backup is some sort of pattern, let's just say if I was impartial you wouldn't have convinced me. It seems like what you're inferring is that if I proved something wrong with a story from another faith, or just criticized anything of another faith more often, that it would somehow magically change the complexion of THIS post? One has nothing to do with another.


I come from a perspective of not needlessly antagonizing them if you want to witness to them. There's nothing wrong with pointing out positive social contributions of any religion with the intent of building some goodwill.

So not only hate, but somehow antagonizing? WHO am I antagonizing? My friend? Jafar? All Muslims? My friend ASKED me to watch this video and give him feedback. I did that. I simply don't believe this stuff just magically appeared, and I think the health issues are more than likely to blame, or what they likely took advantage of. I told him that, and I posted the exchange here. He reads the religion section of this board all the time and gives ME feedback. He's going to join but doesn't feel up to it just yet, and doesn't type very well.

Anyway, I made my point. For people to try and shut me up, infer I can't tell a story, tell me I can't discuss news stories and such - that "I" am just submitting hate - really should KNOW me or what I object to, before just spouting what is nothing more than baseless labeling.

[tailfins]

While maybe a good investigative tool, lack of balance hardly equates to hate. Furthermore, you would need to look at the individual and not the group or entire board. Considering my friends, my ONLY friends here in NY, are ALL Muslim, I think I've given enough proof that I am not hating. I can't help it if I don't have friends of other faiths that I can tell stories about, based on conversations I had with them. I can assure you, that had I had a Christian friend who was telling me a story of Jesus appearing to him on a potato chip, my reaction and proving it wrong would be exactly the same. Being Steve is new to the board, and Jafar is always answering questions, I thought it was one hell of a story. Of course, I do admit, I thought the story was even better considering I searched a while before I found out what was enough information for me NOT to believe it.

But anyway, if you want to label what I did as hate, and your only backup is some sort of pattern, let's just say if I was impartial you wouldn't have convinced me. It seems like what you're inferring is that if I proved something wrong with a story from another faith, or just criticized anything of another faith more often, that it would somehow magically change the complexion of THIS post? One has nothing to do with another.



So not only hate, but somehow antagonizing? WHO am I antagonizing? My friend? Jafar? All Muslims? My friend ASKED me to watch this video and give him feedback. I did that. I simply don't believe this stuff just magically appeared, and I think the health issues are more than likely to blame, or what they likely took advantage of. I told him that, and I posted the exchange here. He reads the religion section of this board all the time and gives ME feedback. He's going to join but doesn't feel up to it just yet, and doesn't type very well.

Anyway, I made my point. For people to try and shut me up, infer I can't tell a story, tell me I can't discuss news stories and such - that "I" am just submitting hate - really should KNOW me or what I object to, before just spouting what is nothing more than baseless labeling.

Do a manual test as an actor. Let the actor be a first time Muslim visitor to the site. What would be the most likely reaction of such an actor?

[jimnyc]

Do a manual test as an actor. Let the actor be a first time Muslim visitor to the site. What would be the most likely reaction of such an actor?

If ignorant and they look at a totality, one may ASSume this thread was hateful, based on the surrounding posts. A reasonable person taking the time to look at MY post, would see it what it was for, and may not agree, but wouldn't see HATE in there.

Seriously, other than posting my disagreement about the baby, and giving alternative reasons, what is hateful about my post?

It would be SO much easier if people actually debated the post, talk about whether they think it's possible or not, does it seem like the disease I posted, which way would a reasonable and impartial person lean.... But NO, just because it involves Islam, right away it's Islamaphobia and hate. Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap.

[tailfins]

If ignorant and they look at a totality, one may ASSume this thread was hateful, based on the surrounding posts. A reasonable person taking the time to look at MY post, would see it what it was for, and may not agree, but wouldn't see HATE in there.

Seriously, other than posting my disagreement about the baby, and giving alternative reasons, what is hateful about my post?

It would be SO much easier if people actually debated the post, talk about whether they think it's possible or not, does it seem like the disease I posted, which way would a reasonable and impartial person lean.... But NO, just because it involves Islam, right away it's Islamaphobia and hate. Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap.

I'm just pointing out a site-wide risk. It's your call whether or not to consider it significant. And I do think Jafar takes too much of a beating.

[Robert A Whit]

Like most threads, this too ended up taking the path of what may look like as the path of the snake.

Started out about a child. A child with fevers that has Arabic words showing up.

Fascinating to me is the comments about the proper use of Arab words. And claims one can't learn from others because to them it is just bull shit. So travels the path of the snake.

Oh I am not trying to confront, but to comment only on the path of the thread.

Having spoken to Arabs and Persians at some length, it is true in my talks I too ran into prejudice among them. My first extended discussion were with an Egyptian man that was selling american carpets to buyers here. His wife was from Afghanistan and they met at college in Lebanon. I must have known him for maybe 10 years and prior to 911, he moved away. I enjoyed his education and he was not too sympathetic to Kuwaitis. Said they think their shit does not stink or similar terms. He said Kuwaitis use the rest of the Arabs as well paid servants. I found no evidence the native Arab born in Kuwait even works. At least he gave me that impression. I find differences in a native Palestinian vs say an Afghani or one from Morocco. So, seeing these guys act different is to be expected.

[jimnyc]

I'm just pointing out a site-wide risk. It's your call whether or not to consider it significant. And I do think Jafar takes too much of a beating.

But you still haven't pointed out a single thing from my post that was hateful. And I don't see how this thread has anything to do with Jafar.

[jafar00]

Tail? Gabby? Either of you care to chime in as to why my thread, and/or my OP, is hate?

I think Drummond answered your question with his own bigotry post :)



Remember, there are Islamists out there who think nothing of strapping bombs to children. Or of brainwashing them into a life of indoctrinated hatred against the West. Or, of drilling 'values' into them which in later life turn into acts of cruelty or worse against others.

Life is VERY cheap in Islam. Cheap, enough, for sufficient hatred to endure, to lead to something like this.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jimnyc http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=630256#post630256)

Tail? Gabby? Either of you care to chime in as to why my thread, and/or my OP, is hate?
I think Drummond answered your question with his own bigotry post :)


http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Drummond http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=630271#post630271)

Remember, there are Islamists out there who think nothing of strapping bombs to children. Or of brainwashing them into a life of indoctrinated hatred against the West. Or, of drilling 'values' into them which in later life turn into acts of cruelty or worse against others.

Life is VERY cheap in Islam. Cheap, enough, for sufficient hatred to endure, to lead to something like this.




nothing Drummond said is untrue.

[aboutime]

I think Drummond answered your question with his own bigotry post :)


This jafar....phony response is nothing but a distraction, or round-about way of not answering any questions.

jafar is convinced...ONLY HE NOTICES. But the coward in him just sings out LOUDLY.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I think Drummond answered your question with his own bigotry post :)

Nothing he cited was a lie. Truth is not bigotry and never can be.
You accuse but make no attempt to prove any part of your accusation. You once at least tried but you fail now because you knew it was a false charge so did not put in the extra effort to try to spin/twist the evidence.-Tyr

[stevecanuck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq6vy3Ed5xA

I think this proves Drummond's point. You want hate, Jafar? Watch this.

[jafar00]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq6vy3Ed5xA

I think this proves Drummond's point. You want hate, Jafar? Watch this.

Off topic but hey... Different Strokes for Different Folks


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlwc0mE0lCU

[jimnyc]

I think Drummond answered your question with his own bigotry post :)

I was referring to MY post, which made up this thread, and was declared hate before Drummond even posted. My OP was neither hate or bigoted.

[tailfins]

I was referring to MY post, which made up this thread, and was declared hate before Drummond even posted. My OP was neither hate or bigoted.

Your single post, maybe not. But there is a pattern that risks making a hostile environment. My guess is you don't desire to been seen as hostile to Muslims, so I'm pointing the pattern out.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Off topic but hey... Different Strokes for Different Folks


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlwc0mE0lCU

Here's a video for you, Jahil. Let me guess. The people who did this were not 'really' Islamic... right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X55bcNuMhKI

[jimnyc]

Your single post, maybe not. But there is a pattern that risks making a hostile environment. My guess is you don't desire to been seen as hostile to Muslims, so I'm pointing the pattern out.

Gabby declared my post/thread as hate. You thanked her for it. This was all prior to the additional comments. I don't want to be seen as hostile by anyone, but it's difficult when you are your post is incorrectly labeled and the topic is ignored by those doing the labeling.

[Voted4Reagan]

I think Drummond answered your question with his own bigotry post :)

a question for Jafar.

Do you agree with section 13 of the Hamas Charter?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I was referring to MY post, which made up this thread, and was declared hate before Drummond even posted. My OP was neither hate or bigoted.

And neither was the post he referenced made by Drummond. If its true its not hate.
If I say, that dog bites and its true there was no bias against that dog by me . However if it is a lie there obviously is bias or else I am wrongly thinking the dog bites but have no deliberate plan to turn others against the dog.
Jafar knows this but simply wants to level the bigotry charge against those presenting the truth about Islam.
The purity of TRUTH can only be diminished by people accepting lies presented against it! And only then in the minds of those not able to understand that TRUTH always stands on its own and can never be defeated .
Islam condones lying in its Koran and teaches lying is ok. Deceive the infidels for Allah's greater glory! -Tyr

[tailfins]

And neither was the post he referenced made by Drummond. If its true its not hate.
If I say, that dog bites and its true there was no bias against that dog by me . However if it is a lie there obviously is bias or else I am wrongly thinking the dog bites but have no deliberate plan to turn others against the dog.
Jafar knows this but simply wants to level the bigotry charge against those presenting the truth about Islam.
The purity of TRUTH can only be diminished by people accepting lies presented against it! And only then in the minds of those not able to understand that TRUTH always stands on its own and can never be defeated .
Islam condones lying in its Koran and teaches lying is ok. Deceive the infidels for Allah's greater glory! -Tyr.

I'm not going to split words with you. Any neutral observer would judge the pattern of some posts to be a hostile environment.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

.

I'm not going to split words with you. Any neutral observer would judge the pattern of some posts to be a hostile environment.

My noting that TRUTH is not bigotry stands as the truth that it is then. Hostile to whom? To those that are members of and engage in the actions promoted by Islam? Yes, guilty parties have no right to cry foul unless wrongly accused--They are not wrongly accused...
Here is a link with tons of data proving that .

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[jimnyc]

.

I'm not going to split words with you. Any neutral observer would judge the pattern of some posts to be a hostile environment.

Then please FINALLY answer my question...

What was hateful in my post? What was hostile about it? Instead of generalizing and lumping the entire religious section into one opinion, how about addressing THIS thread and my opening post, which was labeled as hate, and you agreed with that statement. Stating that OTHER threads or posts in this section may or may not be hateful does NOTHING to address THIS thread and MY post.

If you think there's a pattern - wouldn't it make more sense to point out the posts/threads that actually ARE hateful?

[tailfins]

Then please FINALLY answer my question...

What was hateful in my post? What was hostile about it? Instead of generalizing and lumping the entire religious section into one opinion, how about addressing THIS thread and my opening post, which was labeled as hate, and you agreed with that statement. Stating that OTHER threads or posts in this section may or may not be hateful does NOTHING to address THIS thread and MY post.

If you think there's a pattern - wouldn't it make more sense to point out the posts/threads that actually ARE hateful?

Actually, it appears you are taking measures to reduce the pattern. You have engaged in community outreach to achieve more balance at DP. While I am hoping Jafar will see some relief, I was wondering if using EEOC vocabulary is successful in getting on your nerves. :poke:

[jimnyc]

Actually, it appears you are taking measures to reduce the pattern. You have engaged in community outreach to achieve more balance at DP. While I am hoping Jafar will see some relief, I was wondering if using EEOC vocabulary is successful in getting on your nerves. :poke:

I did nothing more than post about a story and a discussion. Anything you perceive from there is of your own doing. If you think it's hate, so be it, I can live with that!

[stevecanuck]

[QUOTE=jafar00;630524]Off topic but hey... Different Strokes for Different Folks

Off topic? You accused Drummond of hate for saying this, "Remember, there are Islamists out there who think nothing of strapping bombs to children. Or of brainwashing them into a life of indoctrinated hatred against the West. Or, of drilling 'values' into them which in later life turn into acts of cruelty or worse against others." The clip I provided not only showed a 3-year-old muslim girl spouting hatred for Jews, but she was doing it on state run TV in saudi arabia. That means every word out of her mouth is sancitioned by the government. Off topic my ass.

And your attempt to dismiss it as trivial by saying, "different strokes" is just more disingenuousness. In other words, the usual.

[aboutime]

jimnyc: Do you ever get the feeling, or experience the thought about how you have created a Monster here...with DP?

In case nobody warned you ahead of time, despite your best intentions to bring Thinking, Reasonable people together to share their idea's and opinions.
You should now be fully aware that EVERYTHING you have tried to do here has been attacked in some way by those you offer to respect, and, in return. You get nothing but endless Betrayal, disguised as Rhetorical games, and Semantics that play with the edges of the Civil Envelope those people call Political Correctness.

In other words jim. As my father warned me many, many years before he passed away.

"You cannot, and should not Trust...Anyone!"
If anyone Thinks you Trust them. That is when they will Betray you the most.

[jimnyc]

jimnyc: Do you ever get the feeling, or experience the thought about how you have created a Monster here...with DP?

In case nobody warned you ahead of time, despite your best intentions to bring Thinking, Reasonable people together to share their idea's and opinions.
You should now be fully aware that EVERYTHING you have tried to do here has been attacked in some way by those you offer to respect, and, in return. You get nothing but endless Betrayal, disguised as Rhetorical games, and Semantics that play with the edges of the Civil Envelope those people call Political Correctness.

In other words jim. As my father warned me many, many years before he passed away.

"You cannot, and should not Trust...Anyone!"
If anyone Thinks you Trust them. That is when they will Betray you the most.

I pretty much trust everyone. Sometimes that sets me up for failure. You live and learn, and then move on.

[tailfins]

jimnyc: Do you ever get the feeling, or experience the thought about how you have created a Monster here...with DP?

In case nobody warned you ahead of time, despite your best intentions to bring Thinking, Reasonable people together to share their idea's and opinions.
You should now be fully aware that EVERYTHING you have tried to do here has been attacked in some way by those you offer to respect, and, in return. You get nothing but endless Betrayal, disguised as Rhetorical games, and Semantics that play with the edges of the Civil Envelope those people call Political Correctness.

In other words jim. As my father warned me many, many years before he passed away.

"You cannot, and should not Trust...Anyone!"
If anyone Thinks you Trust them. That is when they will Betray you the most.

Jim, to his credit wants to know what people REALLY think and doesn't pressure them into saying what he wants to hear. It's the hallmark of someone who wants to learn.

[aboutime]

Jim, to his credit wants to know what people REALLY think and doesn't pressure them into saying what he wants to hear. It's the hallmark of someone who wants to learn.


Never said anything contrary to that tailfins. Of course. We all want to know what other people REALLY think. Otherwise, there would be no need for forums such as this in the first place...if we all agreed...how boring would that be?

I merely reminded him that when you let your guard down. Sometimes. The most unlikely sources...such as some members of this forum, might take advantage of jim's big, sincere heart, and intentions...and stab him in the back, or betray his trust for their own selfish reasons.
Have you never been betrayed by anyone in your life?
If not. You must be very naive, and terribly young.

[tailfins]

Never said anything contrary to that tailfins. Of course. We all want to know what other people REALLY think. Otherwise, there would be no need for forums such as this in the first place...if we all agreed...how boring would that be?

I merely reminded him that when you let your guard down. Sometimes. The most unlikely sources...such as some members of this forum, might take advantage of jim's big, sincere heart, and intentions...and stab him in the back, or betray his trust for their own selfish reasons.
Have you never been betrayed by anyone in your life?
If not. You must be very naive, and terribly young.

I rarely get betrayed because I rarely leave an opening. Jim does get management know-how from running this forum. If he can manage all us eight balls, he can manage anything.

[aboutime]

I rarely get betrayed because I rarely leave an opening. Jim does get management know-how from running this forum. If he can manage all us eight balls, he can manage anything.


Unfortunately for you tailfins. I recognize what you said as "DENIAL". Never expected you to admit otherwise.

[tailfins]

Unfortunately for you tailfins. I recognize what you said as "DENIAL". Never expected you to admit otherwise.

What's denial about letting your guard down as little as humanly possible?

[aboutime]

What's denial about letting your guard down as little as humanly possible?


tailfins. You sound like Robert. If there was NO denial, as I said. What reason would you have to come here and deny it???

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What's denial about letting your guard down as little as humanly possible?

Nothing but it does not jive too well with your call for me to stop posting the TRUTH about the evil of and bad deeds done by Islamists. As long as my posts are not lies and are backed up by links with clear facts presented I will continue.
This implication of bigotry for my doing so is false regardless of who brings the charge or agrees with the charge.. As was your declaration of "creating a hostile environment" here by we that are posting the truth about what they are doing. If its true its not wrong to post it as the truth stands all tests. Start proving the linked sources to be lies or back off. You can not justify attacking the truth or those that deliver that truth.-Tyr

[tailfins]

Nothing but it does not jive too well with your call for me to stop posting the TRUTH about the evil of and bad deeds done by Islamists. As long as my posts are not lies and are backed up by links with clear facts presented I will continue.
This implication of bigotry for my doing so is false regardless of who brings the charge or agrees with the charge.. As was your declaration of "creating a hostile environment" here by we that are posting the truth about what they are doing. If its true its not wrong to post it as the truth stands all tests. Start proving the linked sources to be lies or back off. You can not justify attacking the truth or those that deliver that truth.-Tyr

I was referring to toxic individuals that aren't satisfied until they make someone else unhappy.

I will respond to your above with this comparison: If you see a very obese person, what if you reminded that person of their obesity on an hourly basis? You would be creating a hostile environment.

[jafar00]

[QUOTE=jafar00;630524]Off topic but hey... Different Strokes for Different Folks

Off topic? You accused Drummond of hate for saying this, "Remember, there are Islamists out there who think nothing of strapping bombs to children. Or of brainwashing them into a life of indoctrinated hatred against the West. Or, of drilling 'values' into them which in later life turn into acts of cruelty or worse against others." The clip I provided not only showed a 3-year-old muslim girl spouting hatred for Jews, but she was doing it on state run TV in saudi arabia. That means every word out of her mouth is sancitioned by the government. Off topic my ass.

And your attempt to dismiss it as trivial by saying, "different strokes" is just more disingenuousness. In other words, the usual.



A couple of extreme views can be cancelled out by a billion non extreme ones. :p

[red states rule]

Muslim hate thread No. 12,337. Guess it never gets old. :rolleyes:

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif

and Gabby's irreverent post #10,295.

[red states rule]

[QUOTE=stevecanuck;630645]

A couple of extreme views can be cancelled out by a billion non extreme ones. :p

Not to mention a few homicide bombers serving Allah are also effective in silencing those "extreme" views

[stevecanuck]

Off topic but hey... Different Strokes for Different Folks


[QUOTE=jafar00;630761][QUOTE=stevecanuck;630645]

A couple of extreme views can be cancelled out by a billion non extreme ones. :p

The point you're purposely pretending doesn't exist is that this was run on state TV. It's saudi policy. Hardly "a couple".