Army Reserve training material: Evangelicals, Catholics are extremist groups

[red states rule]

Is anyone really surprised after the Pentagon still refuses to call the slaughter at Ft Hood a terrorist attack?





This one earns the coveted Duke University triple facepalm, the highest honor we can award for self-beclowning. An Army Reserve training class attempted to instruct soldiers on the various extremist groups of the world, dutifully noting al-”Quaeda,” with which the US armed forces are at war, and Hamas, which the State Department lists as a terrorist organization. Both of those, however, come below a couple of extremist groups (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304739/Army-Reserve-training-material-lists-Catholics-evangelical-Christians-Jews-religious-extremism-category-KKK-Hamas-Al-Qaeda.html?ito=feeds-newsxml) so fringe that only about 60 million Americans (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0075.pdf) count themselves among their ranks:


http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/army-extremism.jpg (http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/army-extremism.jpg)

A slideshow presentation shown to US Army Reserve recruits classifies Christians, including both evangelicals and Roman Catholics, as religious extremists, placing them in the same category as skinheads, the Ku Klux Klan, Hamas and Al Qaeda.


The presentation also warned that members of the military are prohibited from taking leadership roles in any organization the Pentagon considers ‘extremist,’ and from distributing the organization’s literature, whether on or off a military installation.


The opening slide warns that ‘the rise in hate crimes and extremism outside the military may be an indication of internal issues all [armed] services will have to face.’


Citing a Southern Poverty Law Center report as evidence that extremism is on the rise, the Army Reserve presentation blames ‘the superheated fears generated by economic dislocation, a proliferation of demonizing conspiracy theories,the changing racial make-up of America and the prospect of 4 more years under a black president who many on the far right view as an enemy to their country.’


A later statement from the Pentagon said that the author of this slide presented this viewpoint without permission (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/5/dod-presentation-classifies-catholics-evangelicals/), and that the research left much to be desired:

The Archdiocese for the Military Services, a Catholic organization that trains and endorses military priests and chaplains, said in a release that it was “astounded that Catholics were listed alongside groups that are, by their very mission and nature, violent and extremist.”


The AMS called on the Pentagon “to review these materials and to ensure that tax-payer funds are never again used to present blatantly anti-religious material to the men and women in uniform.”


An Army (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/army/) spokesperson said the presentation “was produced by an individual without anyone in the chain of command’s knowledge or permission.”

The Army (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/army/) removed the offending slide after receiving complaints.


The person responsible for the presentation, the spokesperson said, “was not a subject matter expert, and produced the material after conducting Internet research.”


“Not a subject matter expert”? No kidding, but that doesn’t explain everything. Why was he or she assigned to train reserves on extremism in the first place? Shouldn’t the lack of expertise prompted the Army Reserves to exercise more supervision over its instructor? Few organizations are as relentlessly hierarchical as the military, and someone in the chain of command appears to have acted … irresponsibly.



http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/08/army-reserve-training-material-evangelicals-catholics-are-extremist-groups/comment-page-2/#comments

[jafar00]

I see they list Sunni Muslims. Do they have 1.5billion enemies or is it just the Iraqi ones?

Actually that whole list appears to cover about 2/3 of the world. I guess that explains the stupidly large "defence" budget of the USA.

Oh, and it's Abu Sayyaf, not Abu Sayyah.

If this isn't fake, it wasn't proof read or thought out too well.

And they want to give these people guns and send them abroad with them?.......

[Marcus Aurelius]

I see they list Sunni Muslims. Do they have 1.5billion enemies or is it just the Iraqi ones?

Actually that whole list appears to cover about 2/3 of the world. I guess that explains the stupidly large "defence" budget of the USA.

Oh, and it's Abu Sayyaf, not Abu Sayyah.

If this isn't fake, it wasn't proof read or thought out too well.

And they want to give these people guns and send them abroad with them?.......

you're blaming the trainees for the dumbass slide?

pathetic fuck.

[aboutime]

I see they list Sunni Muslims. Do they have 1.5billion enemies or is it just the Iraqi ones?

Actually that whole list appears to cover about 2/3 of the world. I guess that explains the stupidly large "defence" budget of the USA.

Oh, and it's Abu Sayyaf, not Abu Sayyah.

If this isn't fake, it wasn't proof read or thought out too well.

And they want to give these people guns and send them abroad with them?.......




jafar. I love to ask you questions you always refuse to answer. But at least others who read the question, get the full picture.

And my question is: "Were you born as dumb as you sound, or were you taught to be dumb?"

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Is anyone really surprised after the Pentagon still refuses to call the slaughter at Ft Hood a terrorist attack?

Obama's private army should he manage to get it will have American Christians as its enemy. That is obama's goal. Maybe all that half-billion rounds of ammo and the armored carriers is equipment for the private -citizen - army boyazzhat wants and is building.

[jimnyc]

Actually that whole list appears to cover about 2/3 of the world. I guess that explains the stupidly large "defence" budget of the USA.

Our defense budget is the highest in the world and we live in the freest and greatest country in the world. I'd be curious as to what the defense budget is for: Pakistan, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Palestine...

While we might have a monstrous defense budget, we are at least civilized, and don't live in a country that looks like it's still the caveman days. Don't blame us for becoming civilized and bettering ourselves, while so many others stand still.

[red states rule]

Now take a deep breath folks. I am sure many hard working Federal workers put alot of effort, time, and resources into coming up with this list

Your lack of appreciation is an insult to their service

***sarcasm off***

As I stated in the OP I am not surprised as the Ft Hood attacks has yet to be called what is was. A terrorist attack. So the stupidity of the list is not surprising

[jafar00]

Our defense budget is the highest in the world and we live in the freest and greatest country in the world. I'd be curious as to what the defense budget is for: Pakistan, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Palestine...

While we might have a monstrous defense budget, we are at least civilized, and don't live in a country that looks like it's still the caveman days. Don't blame us for becoming civilized and bettering ourselves, while so many others stand still.

The US defense budget is more than the next top 12 countries combined. I don't think the countries on your list would come close. Then again, they have all been invaded, occupied, and had dictators ruling over them for decades.

[logroller]

The US defense budget is more than the next top 12 countries combined. I don't think the countries on your list would come close. Then again, they have all been invaded, occupied, and had dictators ruling over them for decades.
Whether or not it was your intention, you just refuted your statement about the stupidity of the US's large "defence" budget.

[logroller]

jafar. I love to ask you questions you always refuse to answer. But at least others who read the question, get the full picture.

And my question is: "Were you born as dumb as you sound, or were you taught to be dumb?"

That's a loaded question; e.g., "have you stopped beating your wife?" Its rhetoric, which has its place, but informally, its a logical fallacy.

[red states rule]

The US defense budget is more than the next top 12 countries combined. I don't think the countries on your list would come close. Then again, they have all been invaded, occupied, and had dictators ruling over them for decades.

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/tourback600.gif

[jafar00]

Whether or not it was your intention, you just refuted your statement about the stupidity of the US's large "defence" budget.

If it has to be that large, there is another problem that needs to be addressed. Why the country is so hated.


http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/tourback600.gif

So the Brits and Anzacs, and Canadians etc... didn't fight in WWII?
I noticed the pic missed out Vietnam (oops)
Afghanistan free in 2001? So why have you been bogged down fighting the Taliban who still control much of the country 12 years later?
Iraq "ditto"

[Jeff]

If it has to be that large, there is another problem that needs to be addressed. Why the country is so hated.



So the Brits and Anzacs, and Canadians etc... didn't fight in WWII?
I noticed the pic missed out Vietnam (oops)
Afghanistan free in 2001? So why have you been bogged down fighting the Taliban who still control much of the country 12 years later?
Iraq "ditto"

I have to agree with ya on the Taliban , Iraq and the rest of the animals over there we should of just carpet bombed the entire region after all ya take a dog with rabies and put it down , the majority of these people are the same , seriously one month of warning before we just leveled the region ( yes there are some good people there they were the ones screaming George Bush is #1 the first time we were there)

[taft2012]

Quick question; if our Commander-in-Chief considers the Muslim Brotherhood dangerous religious extremists, why is he assisting them in setting up shop all over the Middle East?

[cadet]

Is anyone really surprised after the Pentagon still refuses to call the slaughter at Ft Hood a terrorist attack?

Our military is supposed to be accepting of all. But they're also supposed to be distant from them. Service before self. That includes religion.

They're supposed to be American Soldiers! Not Christians, atheists, Muslims. They might be both, but they're to classify themselves as part of the military first.
Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern, no. American.

It might sound weird that they classify Christians as an extremest group, due to most of the country being Christian. But they're not supposed to give special attention to any religion. Cause if they do that they have to do it for all.

[Abbey Marie]

The US defense budget is more than the next top 12 countries combined. I don't think the countries on your list would come close. Then again, they have all been invaded, occupied, and had dictators ruling over them for decades.

1. We're much bigger
2. We have more to defend

Next...

[tailfins]

I see they list Sunni Muslims. Do they have 1.5billion enemies or is it just the Iraqi ones?

Actually that whole list appears to cover about 2/3 of the world. I guess that explains the stupidly large "defence" budget of the USA.

Oh, and it's Abu Sayyaf, not Abu Sayyah.

If this isn't fake, it wasn't proof read or thought out too well.

And they want to give these people guns and send them abroad with them?.......

It's probably some random Military Science instructor with a couple dozen students. Maybe a verbal warning for actions that reflect poorly on the image of US military is in order, but nothing more than that. Too much is being made of this.

[aboutime]

Our military is supposed to be accepting of all. But they're also supposed to be distant from them. Service before self. That includes religion.

They're supposed to be American Soldiers! Not Christians, atheists, Muslims. They might be both, but they're to classify themselves as part of the military first.
Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern, no. American.

It might sound weird that they classify Christians as an extremest group, due to most of the country being Christian. But they're not supposed to give special attention to any religion. Cause if they do that they have to do it for all.


cadet. All members of the U.S. Military are AMERICANS first. No other description needed.

[logroller]

If it has to be that large, there is another problem that needs to be addressed. Why the country is so hated.

There's a saying, you get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than just a kind word. Fwiw, the us is far from the only country that attracts animosity; we are, however, atop the list of global power brokers and this, understandably, breeds contention. But it is a human quality to pursue and protect one's interest. That's what power is all about. You seemingly imply that any other country would, had they the power, not try and protect/ further their own interests; but history proves, without exception, that this is not so. The difference is, whether the actions taken do, indeed further those interests, or degrade them. American principles, like freedom and justice for All, are what have delivered us the power we wield, not merely guns and ammo. Its easy to relax amid the sheltered harbor of complacency, pleading for kindness, fairness and equality, but when (not if) a tyrannical force impinges the wholesome character of these principles, it is the 2x4 that will decide the issue.

[taft2012]

Our military is supposed to be accepting of all. But they're also supposed to be distant from them. Service before self. That includes religion.

They're supposed to be American Soldiers! Not Christians, atheists, Muslims. They might be both, but they're to classify themselves as part of the military first.
Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern, no. American.

It might sound weird that they classify Christians as an extremest group, due to most of the country being Christian. But they're not supposed to give special attention to any religion. Cause if they do that they have to do it for all.

I don't understand what you're saying here at all.

Are they teaching about faiths within the military? Is the message that a Catholic chaplain is as big a danger to fellow soldiers on a military base as the Fort Hood shooter?

Are they talking about the general American population, and if so, why? Our military does not patrol our streets. Yet.

Or are they teaching about overseas religious populations, and that a Catholic priest in Manila is as dastardly as a sharia cleric in Afghanistan?

Or, as I suspect, were they teaching about the dangers of Islam and had to balance out the political correctness scales by including other faiths as well?

[jafar00]

1. We're much bigger
2. We have more to defend

Next...

Let's compare the US and almost as big, Australia.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-82y82YQoERI/TrRBXd4tgYI/AAAAAAAAEhs/PNFSc5SJ2UU/s640/adia-2007-09-17-IMG-2035-postcard-australia-big-country-comparing-to-ukjapan-usa-europe-asia-new-zealand-australia-melbourne-cringel_com.jpg

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Military Spending by

USA: $711b
Australia: $13b

Why can Australia defend itself on a fraction of what the USA spends then?

[fj1200]

Let's compare the US and almost as big, Australia.

Now compare by population or GDP and then adjust for the subsidy that the free world gets for American military protection.

[taft2012]

Why can Australia defend itself on a fraction of what the USA spends then?

They can't.

Which is why the United States ground conquest of the Pacific theater had to be launched from Australia during WWII.

[PostmodernProphet]

Our defense budget is the highest in the world

but then again, our domestic budget is four times larger than our defense budget.....

[jimnyc]

Why can Australia defend itself on a fraction of what the USA spends then?

Because of the US Marines and money we spend over there on defense? :dunno:

[aboutime]

Because of the US Marines and money we spend over there on defense? :dunno:


jim. The FALSE PROPHET jafar is just throwing more MUDBALLS here. Ignorance, Intolerance, and Idiocy are his calling card.

jafar needs to keep attempting to make members angry. It (he thinks) takes away the attention from his endless, previous Lies, as well as provides a hiding place that allows him to IGNORE answering any questions that might make him look even DUMBER than we know him to be.

[jafar00]

They can't.

Which is why the United States ground conquest of the Pacific theater had to be launched from Australia during WWII.

I'm talking about now, not 1942 :)

[aboutime]

I'm talking about now, not 1942 :)


jafar. Nobody really cares what you are bringing here. Most of us here in the USA are very, very happy you live, or claim to live in OZ.

Being there gives you absolutely no Credibility when it comes to asking us questions about our nation.

You are a professional TROUBLE MAKER sponsored by the likes of HAMAS, and the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.

See how many Australian's you can fool, or convince your hatred isn't intentional.

[cadet]

I don't understand what you're saying here at all.

Are they teaching about faiths within the military? Is the message that a Catholic chaplain is as big a danger to fellow soldiers on a military base as the Fort Hood shooter?

Are they talking about the general American population, and if so, why? Our military does not patrol our streets. Yet.

Or are they teaching about overseas religious populations, and that a Catholic priest in Manila is as dastardly as a sharia cleric in Afghanistan?

Or, as I suspect, were they teaching about the dangers of Islam and had to balance out the political correctness scales by including other faiths as well?


cadet. All members of the U.S. Military are AMERICANS first. No other description needed.

And that sums it up.
No special services to any religion, creed, race, views, etc.

[Robert A Whit]

jim. The FALSE PROPHET jafar is just throwing more MUDBALLS here. Ignorance, Intolerance, and Idiocy are his calling card.

jafar needs to keep attempting to make members angry. It (he thinks) takes away the attention from his endless, previous Lies, as well as provides a hiding place that allows him to IGNORE answering any questions that might make him look even DUMBER than we know him to be.

Why don't you talk to the topic and stop bashing posters?

[aboutime]

Why don't you talk to the topic and stop bashing posters?


Please excuse me? I wasn't aware of how protective, and formal you feel about jafar.

As for bashing posters. How bout using your own advice
Why don't you talk to the topic and stop bashing posters?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Let's compare the US and almost as big, Australia.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-82y82YQoERI/TrRBXd4tgYI/AAAAAAAAEhs/PNFSc5SJ2UU/s640/adia-2007-09-17-IMG-2035-postcard-australia-big-country-comparing-to-ukjapan-usa-europe-asia-new-zealand-australia-melbourne-cringel_com.jpg

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Military Spending by

USA: $711b
Australia: $13b

Why can Australia defend itself on a fraction of what the USA spends then?

US population 313 million
OZ population 22.6 million


Dumb ass.

[jafar00]

Now compare by population or GDP and then adjust for the subsidy that the free world gets for American military protection.

Australia still spends far less. We also have a longer coastline to patrol.

[fj1200]

Australia still spends far less. We also have a longer coastline to patrol. Granted, now about that subsidy...

[aboutime]

Australia still spends far less. We also have a longer coastline to patrol.

Now THAT...is one of the best, lame excuses I have seen here in a long,long time.

You honestly believe all of us will take that excuse as viable, factual, and real???

How much did you pay for that bridge in Brooklyn jafar???

[jafar00]

Granted, now about that subsidy...

If you didn't invade half the world and start wars all over the place, you wouldn't have to spend so much would you? :p

[Marcus Aurelius]

If you didn't invade half the world and start wars all over the place, you wouldn't have to spend so much would you? :p

There are 196 countries on Earth. Pleae... list for us the 98 countries that the US has 'invaded'... in chronological order from earliest invasion to most recent.

When you can't do that because you're a fucking lying pedophile worshiper, then tell us how all our allies would react if we removed our military presence from their borders, and they lost the vast majority of their protection.

Dumb ass.

[Drummond]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/tourback600.gif:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Drummond]

If you didn't invade half the world and start wars all over the place, you wouldn't have to spend so much would you? :p

See Redstates' excellent poster post on that ..

And tell us, Jafar, how the US 'started' 9/11. Yes, the response to that WAS the War on Terror, but the US never started the basis for it. No, terrorists doing their bit for 'the religion of peace' kicked all of THAT off.

Perhaps, according to you, the US's 'proper' response should've been to just take it all, make NO countermoves AT ALL, and just wait around for Al Qaeda to launch their next attack ?

[taft2012]

And that sums it up.
No special services to any religion, creed, race, views, etc.

Nope, I'm still not getting it.

I understand what you're saying about workplace professionalism, but that's basically true about any government worker. If the lady behind the counter at the Department of Motor Vehicles is a Jehovah's Witness and has a hankering to read scripture to me while I'm renewing my license, she knows she had to repress that urge and remain professional.

That's understood, and doesn't seem to be the reason behind this military training. Teaching professionalism can be done without insulting 75% of the world's population.

Now if the Department of Motor Vehicles was training their clerks to be wary of folks like me because "Catholic are extremists"...

1. I'd wonder where they got their information from.
2. I'd wonder what the need for that training was, which is what I'm wondering about this military training.

[PostmodernProphet]

If you didn't invade half the world and start wars all over the place, you wouldn't have to spend so much would you? :p

true.....but I think that there are people in places like Grenada and Panama and Bosnia and Kuwait and Iraq that are rather glad we did......

[PostmodernProphet]

There are 196 countries on Earth. Pleae... list for us the 98 countries that the US has 'invaded'... in chronological order from earliest invasion to most recent.

I'm having a little trouble at the beginning....we invaded Canada twice, but it was before it was a separate country and it was run by different people.....do I count it one invasion of France and one of England?.....one of Canada or two Canada's?......

[revelarts]

<tbody>
SOUTH DAKOTA

1890 (-?)
Troops
300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.



ARGENTINA
1890
Troops
Buenos Aires interests protected.


CHILE
1891
Troops
Marines clash with nationalist rebels.


HAITI
1891
Troops
Black revolt on Navassa defeated.


IDAHO
1892
Troops
Army suppresses silver miners' strike.


HAWAII
1893 (-?)
Naval, troops
Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.


CHICAGO
1894
Troops
Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.


NICARAGUA
1894
Troops
Month-long occupation of Bluefields.


CHINA
1894-95
Naval, troops
Marines land in Sino-Japanese War


KOREA
1894-96
Troops
Marines kept in Seoul during war.


PANAMA
1895
Troops, naval
Marines land in Colombian province.


NICARAGUA
1896
Troops
Marines land in port of Corinto.


CHINA
1898-1900
Troops
Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.


PHILIPPINES
1898-1910 (-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos


CUBA
1898-1902 (-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.


PUERTO RICO
1898 (-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, occupation continues.


GUAM
1898 (-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, still use as base.


MINNESOTA

1898 (-?)
Troops
Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.


NICARAGUA
1898
Troops
Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.



SAMOA
1899 (-?)
Troops
Battle over succession to throne.


NICARAGUA
1899
Troops
Marines land at port of Bluefields.


IDAHO
1899-1901
Troops
Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.


OKLAHOMA
1901
Troops
Army battles Creek Indian revolt.


PANAMA
1901-14
Naval, troops
Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone; Opened canal 1914.


HONDURAS
1903
Troops
Marines intervene in revolution.


DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
1903-04
Troops
U.S. interests protected in Revolution.


KOREA
1904-05
Troops
Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.


CUBA
1906-09
Troops
Marines land in democratic election.


NICARAGUA
1907
Troops
"Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.


HONDURAS
1907
Troops
Marines land during war with Nicaragua


PANAMA
1908
Troops
Marines intervene in election contest.


NICARAGUA
1910
Troops
Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.


HONDURAS
1911
Troops
U.S. interests protected in civil war.


CHINA
1911-41
Naval, troops
Continuous occupation with flare-ups.


CUBA
1912
Troops
U.S. interests protected in civil war.


PANAMA
1912
Troops
Marines land during heated election.


HONDURAS
1912
Troops
Marines protect U.S. economic interests.


NICARAGUA
1912-33
Troops, bombing
10-year occupation, fought guerillas


MEXICO
1913
Naval
Americans evacuated during revolution.


DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
1914
Naval
Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.


COLORADO
1914
Troops
Breaking of miners' strike by Army.


MEXICO
1914-18
Naval, troops
Series of interventions against nationalists.


HAITI
1914-34
Troops, bombing
19-year occupation after revolts.


TEXAS
1915
Troops
Federal soldiers crush "Plan of San Diego" Mexican-American rebellion


DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
1916-24
Troops
8-year Marine occupation.


CUBA
1917-33
Troops
Military occupation, economic protectorate.


WORLD WAR I
1917-18
Naval, troops
Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.


RUSSIA
1918-22
Naval, troops
Five landings to fight Bolsheviks


PANAMA
1918-20
Troops
"Police duty" during unrest after elections.


HONDURAS
1919
Troops
Marines land during election campaign.


YUGOSLAVIA
1919
Troops/Marines
intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.


GUATEMALA
1920
Troops
2-week intervention against unionists.


WEST VIRGINIA
1920-21
Troops, bombing
Army intervenes against mineworkers.


TURKEY
1922
Troops
Fought nationalists in Smyrna.


CHINA
1922-27
Naval, troops
Deployment during nationalist revolt.


MEXICO
HONDURAS

1923
1924-25

Bombing
Troops

Airpower defends Calles from rebellion
Landed twice during election strife.



PANAMA
1925
Troops
Marines suppress general strike.


CHINA
1927-34
Troops
Marines stationed throughout the country.


EL SALVADOR
1932
Naval
Warships send during Marti revolt.


WASHINGTON DC
1932
Troops
Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.


WORLD WAR II
1941-45
Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear
Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.


DETROIT
1943
Troops
Army put down Black rebellion.


IRAN
1946
Nuclear threat
Soviet troops told to leave north.


YUGOSLAVIA
1946
Nuclear threat, naval
Response to shoot-down of US plane.


URUGUAY
1947
Nuclear threat
Bombers deployed as show of strength.


GREECE
1947-49
Command operation
U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.


GERMANY
1948
Nuclear Threat
Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.


CHINA
1948-49
Troops/Marines
evacuate Americans before Communist victory.


PHILIPPINES
1948-54
Command operation
CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.


PUERTO RICO
1950
Command operation
Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.


KOREA
1951-53 (-?)
Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats
U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.


IRAN
1953
Command Operation
CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.


VIETNAM
1954
Nuclear threat
French offered bombs to use against seige.


GUATEMALA
1954
Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat
CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.


EGYPT
1956
Nuclear threat, troops
Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.


LEBANON
l958
Troops, naval
Army & Marine occupation against rebels.


IRAQ
1958
Nuclear threat
Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.


CHINA
l958
Nuclear threat
China told not to move on Taiwan isles.


PANAMA
1958
Troops
Flag protests erupt into confrontation.


VIETNAM
l960-75
Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats
Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.


CUBA
l961
Command operation
CIA-directed exile invasion fails.


GERMANY
l961
Nuclear threat
Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.


LAOS
1962
Command operation
Military buildup during guerrilla war.


CUBA
l962
Nuclear threat, naval
Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.


IRAQ
1963
Command operation
CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba'ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.


PANAMA
l964
Troops
Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.


INDONESIA
l965
Command operation
Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.


DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
1965-66
Troops, bombing
Army & Marines land during election campaign.


GUATEMALA
l966-67
Command operation
Green Berets intervene against rebels.


DETROIT
l967
Troops
Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.


UNITED STATES
l968
Troops
After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.


CAMBODIA
l969-75
Bombing, troops, naval
Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.


OMAN
l970
Command operation
U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.


LAOS
l971-73
Command operation, bombing
U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.


SOUTH DAKOTA
l973
Command operation
Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.


MIDEAST
1973
Nuclear threat
World-wide alert during Mideast War.


CHILE
1973
Command operation
CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.


CAMBODIA
l975
Troops, bombing
Gassing of captured ship Mayagüez, 28 troops die when copter shot down.


ANGOLA
l976-92
Command operation
CIA assists South African-backed rebels.


IRAN
l980
Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing
Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.


LIBYA
l981
Naval jets
Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.


EL SALVADOR
l981-92
Command operation, troops
Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.


NICARAGUA
l981-90
Command operation, naval
CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.


LEBANON
l982-84
Naval, bombing, troops
Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi'a rebel bombs barracks.


GRENADA
l983-84
Troops, bombing
Invasion four years after revolution.


HONDURAS
l983-89
Troops
Maneuvers help build bases near borders.


IRAN
l984
Jets
Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.


LIBYA
l986
Bombing, naval
Air strikes to topple Qaddafi gov't.


BOLIVIA
1986
Troops
Army assists raids on cocaine region.


IRAN
l987-88
Naval, bombing
US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.


LIBYA
1989
Naval jets
Two Libyan jets shot down.


VIRGIN ISLANDS
1989
Troops
St. Croix Black unrest after storm.


PHILIPPINES
1989
Jets
Air cover provided for government against coup.


PANAMA
1989 (-?)
Troops, bombing
Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.


LIBERIA
1990
Troops
Foreigners evacuated during civil war.


SAUDI ARABIA
1990-91
Troops, jets
Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.


IRAQ
1990-91
Bombing, troops, naval
Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.


KUWAIT
1991
Naval, bombing, troops
Kuwait royal family returned to throne.


IRAQ
1991-2003
Bombing, naval
No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions


LOS ANGELES
1992
Troops
Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.


SOMALIA
1992-94
Troops, naval, bombing
U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.


YUGOSLAVIA
1992-94
Naval
NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.


BOSNIA
1993-?
Jets, bombing
No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.


HAITI
1994
Troops, naval
Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.


ZAIRE (CONGO)
1996-97
Troops
Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.


LIBERIA
1997
Troops
Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.


ALBANIA
1997
Troops
Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.


SUDAN
1998
Missiles
Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.


AFGHANISTAN
1998
Missiles
Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.


IRAQ
1998
Bombing, Missiles
Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.


YUGOSLAVIA
1999
Bombing, Missiles
Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.


YEMEN
2000
Naval
USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.


MACEDONIA
2001
Troops
NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.


UNITED STATES
2001
Jets, naval
Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC


AFGHANISTAN
2001-?
Troops, bombing, missiles
Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.


YEMEN
2002
Missiles
Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.


PHILIPPINES
2002-?
Troops, naval
Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.


COLOMBIA
2003-?
Troops
US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.


IRAQ
2003-?
Troops, naval, bombing, missiles
Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.


LIBERIA
2003
Troops
Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.


HAITI
2004-05
Troops, naval
Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.


PAKISTAN
2005-?
Missiles, bombing, covert operation
CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.


SOMALIA
2006-?
Missiles, naval, troops, command operation
Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents.


SYRIA
2008
Troops
Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians


YEMEN
2009-?
Missiles, command operation
Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels


LIBYA
2011-?
Bombing, missiles, command operation
NATO coordinates air strikes and missile attacks against Qaddafi government during uprising by rebel army.



</tbody>

[revelarts]

Link for above FYI.
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

[aboutime]

Link for above FYI.
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html


REV. The United States has NEVER invaded any nation without first...being asked for our help.

You can complain, whine, and try to prove whatever you like, and whatever sounds best for you. But...
no matter what kind of list you post here.
Does not mean it is accurate, or...TRUE.
It does make you feel more impressed...again. Feeling so proud..even with lies.

[revelarts]

REV. The United States has NEVER invaded any nation without first...being asked for our help.

You can complain, whine, and try to prove whatever you like, and whatever sounds best for you. But...
no matter what kind of list you post here.
Does not mean it is accurate, or...TRUE.
It does make you feel more impressed...again. Feeling so proud..even with lies.

c'mon AT
"The United States has NEVER invaded any nation without first...being asked for our help."
let's keep it recent.
Did Libya ask for our help, to be invaded? (Unless you mean we answered the Muslim brotherhoods and Alquidas call for help)
Did Iraq ask for our help, to be invaded? and those are just recent ones.


And the list does seem to be true. if you care about the truth.
But If you'd rather have fantasy idea of what America has does i can't stop you though.

But to think of it. Not everything is in that list.
Obama has used Drone to bomb about 7 countries since he's been in office.

and the above is just the list of attacks.
How much money do we spend maintaining all the bases that came after the invasions and victories in most of these countries.
Just the embassy in Iraq cost over a billion dollars (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/16/us-embassy-iraq-state-department-plan_n_965945.html)

i could go on but, oh well, i didn't mean to disturb you with facts.

[Robert A Whit]

REV. The United States has NEVER invaded any nation without first...being asked for our help.

You can complain, whine, and try to prove whatever you like, and whatever sounds best for you. But...
no matter what kind of list you post here.
Does not mean it is accurate, or...TRUE.
It does make you feel more impressed...again. Feeling so proud..even with lies.

Wrong. The USA has more than once invaded and not been asked.

Is there any chance at all that you will attempt to learn some US history?

[tailfins]

Wrong. The USA has more than once invaded and not been asked.

Is there any chance at all that you will attempt to learn some US history?

I'm not doubting you, but can you tell me the three most egregious cases?

[revelarts]

Noriega asked that we attack Panama , Hati is always begging for U.S. troops to come in shoot up the place , President Allende of Chile asked to be assassinated by the CIA after he won a democratic election and Mossodeq of Iran asked to be over thrown after he won a democratic election because elections weren't good enough for the Unitedst.. I mean Iran, we had to put in a Shah because we know better.



and BTW this doesn't mean i think we don't need a military or a intellegence. We just need a lot less IMO, and to actually live up to the ideals we promote more often.

[aboutime]

c'mon AT
"The United States has NEVER invaded any nation without first...being asked for our help."
let's keep it recent.
Did Libya ask for our help, to be invaded? (Unless you mean we answered the Muslim brotherhoods and Alquidas call for help)
Did Iraq ask for our help, to be invaded? and those are just recent ones.


And the list does seem to be true. if you care about the truth.
But If you'd rather have fantasy idea of what America has does i can't stop you though.

But to think of it. Not everything is in that list.
Obama has used Drone to bomb about 7 countries since he's been in office.

and the above is just the list of attacks.
How much money do we spend maintaining all the bases that came after the invasions and victories in most of these countries.
Just the embassy in Iraq cost over a billion dollars (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/16/us-embassy-iraq-state-department-plan_n_965945.html)

i could go on but, oh well, i didn't mean to disturb you with facts.


Rev. Change History however you like it, or want to. But. Invasion by the U.S. means taking over the nation entirely.
Did the U.S. take over any nation...other than our own during the Revolution.
If you are going to use words. Make sure they apply.
I don't care what you, or Robert say here. The U.S. Has never Invaded any nation.
Look it up.
Everyone demands that I use the proper wording all the time.
Now. I am demanding the same of you.

[revelarts]

Noriega asked that we attack Panama , Hati is always begging for U.S. troops to come in shoot up the place , President Allende of Chile asked to be assassinated by the CIA after he won a democratic election and Mossodeq of Iran asked to be over thrown after he won a democratic election because elections weren't good enough for the Unitedst.. I mean Iran, we had to put in a Shah because we know better.
and BTW this doesn't mean i think we don't need a military or a intellegence. We just need a lot less IMO, and to actually live up to the ideals we promote more often.
my red is wrong, it was one of Allende's general not him.


invade:
1: to enter for conquest or plunder
2: to encroach upon : infringe
3a : to spread over or into as if invading : permeate <doubts <em="">invade his mind>
b : to affect injuriously and progressively <gangrene <em="">invades healthy tissue>

invade:

1. to enter forcefully as an enemy; go into with hostile intent: Germany invaded Poland in 1939.
2. to enter like an enemy: Locusts invaded the fields.
3. to enter as if to take possession: to invade a neighbor's home.
4. to enter and affect injuriously or destructively, as disease: viruses that invade the bloodstream.
5. to intrude upon: to invade the privacy of a family.



The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials), which followed World War II, called the waging of aggressive war "essentially an evil thing...to initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."</gangrene></doubts>

[taft2012]

Noriega asked that we attack Panama , Hati is always begging for U.S. troops to come in shoot up the place , President Allende of Chile asked to be assassinated by the CIA after he won a democratic election and Mossodeq of Iran asked to be over thrown after he won a democratic election because elections weren't good enough for the Unitedst.. I mean Iran, we had to put in a Shah because we know better.



and BTW this doesn't mean i think we don't need a military or a intellegence. We just need a lot less IMO, and to actually live up to the ideals we promote more often.

There's a huge second half of much of this discussion that's you're omitting, namely the entire Cold War and an equally ambitious rival matching us every step along the way.

The primary difference is, the leaders we backed came in strong to put down communist resistance, and ultimately successfully transitioned to democracy; South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Haiti, El Salvador, Chile, South Vietnam, are some of our success stories.

The leaders our rivals installed came in strong to put down democratic movements to ensure freedom and democracy was never enjoyed in those countries again; the Peoples Republic of China, North Korea, Vietnam, Eastern Europe, and Cuba are some of their success stories.

[logroller]

There's a huge second half of much of this discussion that's you're omitting, namely the entire Cold War and an equally ambitious rival matching us every step along the way.

The primary difference is, the leaders we backed came in strong to put down communist resistance, and ultimately successfully transitioned to democracy; South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Haiti, El Salvador, Chile, South Vietnam, are some of our success stories.

The leaders our rivals installed came in strong to put down democratic movements to ensure freedom and democracy was never enjoyed in those countries again; the Peoples Republic of China, North Korea, Vietnam, Eastern Europe, and Cuba are some of their success stories.
How about Hawaii? No ongoing Cold War there in 1900. It was just a strategic conquest, a land grab.

[PostmodernProphet]

I am surprised....apparently, in 1995, there were a few months that we didn't do something......

[taft2012]

How about Hawaii? No ongoing Cold War there in 1900. It was just a strategic conquest, a land grab.

The entire western world was on a imperialist bent at that time... and frankly, Hawaii represents a fraction of a percentage of what the rest of the western world was doing.

How about the attempted Soviet annexation of Afghanistan? Oh yeah, I forgot. You guys liked that.

[revelarts]

The entire western world was on a imperialist bent at that time... and frankly, Hawaii represents a fraction of a percentage of what the rest of the western world was doing.

How about the attempted Soviet annexation of Afghanistan? Oh yeah, I forgot. You guys liked that.

everyone else was doing it huh.
That excuse didn't work for me when i was kid, but maybe it worked in your house Taft.

[revelarts]

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iG10C5hniV4?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

Major General Smedley Darlington Butler Marine Corps



Born: West Chester, Pa., July 30, 1881
Educated: Haverford School
Married: Ethel C. Peters, of Philadelphia, June 30, 1905
Awarded two congressional medals of honor:

capture of Vera Cruz, Mexico, 1914
capture of Ft. Riviere, Haiti, 1917


Distinguished service medal, 1919
Major General - United States Marine Corps
Retired Oct. 1, 1931
-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism. It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 . I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents. ...

[logroller]

The entire western world was on a imperialist bent at that time... and frankly, Hawaii represents a fraction of a percentage of what the rest of the western world was doing.

How about the attempted Soviet annexation of Afghanistan? Oh yeah, I forgot. You guys liked that.
Well if everybody was doing it....I guess we get a pass. :rolleyes:
btw, when the USSR invaded Afghanistan I was barely walking; so to say I liked it when we trained rebel forces that would later use those same tactics against us is idiocy at its finest. But I guess if everybody was doing it....

[taft2012]

everyone else was doing it huh.
That excuse didn't work for me when i was kid, but maybe it worked in your house Taft.

Well, in case no one's explained it to you, playing with firecrackers outside Old Man Taylor's window with your friends doesn't quite rise to the level of global political/military positioning.

Those who have shared your thoughts of smug superiority, and sat back and watched imperialists swallow huge swaths of the globe, invariably wound up regretting it.

[taft2012]

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight.

The traditional claptrap of the isolationist dreamers.

This 1933 claptrap was proven folly within 8 years, forget about its relevance or applicability today.

[revelarts]

Well, in case no one's explained it to you, playing with firecrackers outside Old Man Taylor's window with your friends doesn't quite rise to the level of global political/military positioning.

Those who have shared your thoughts of smug superiority, and sat back and watched imperialists swallow huge swaths of the globe, invariably wound up regretting it.

Does it work if you walk-up on a group of men smoking weed?:eek:!?
And One of them says. "Everyone else was doing it."

[revelarts]

The traditional claptrap of the isolationist dreamers.
This 1933 claptrap was proven folly within 8 years, forget about its relevance or applicability today.

So if one war it legit it makes all the rest legit too? I don't think so.

And it applies more after WW2, and even more after the USSR fell.

[taft2012]

Does it work if you walk-up on a group of men smoking weed?:eek:!?
And One of them says. "Everyone else was doing it."


Why is everything about weed with you?

[taft2012]

So if one war it legit it makes all the rest legit too? I don't think so.

And it applies more after WW2, and even more after the USSR fell.

We could have entered WWII earlier, and saved countless lives and destruction. However, your ilk would have been screeching "Illegitimate War! Illegitimate War!"

Rational people have learned from the past. If the war is heading towards our doorstep, there's no need to wait until it gets here. Better to go out and confront it head on.

As the world continues to shrink, isolationism becomes as disproven a theory as socialism.

[aboutime]

Why is everything about weed with you?



taft. Looks like the POTHEAD theory has now gone FULL CIRCLE. They can hand it out, but can't take it.

[revelarts]

Why is everything about weed with you?
LOL Ok that was was a good one.:thumb:

Buuut Lets just see who's the next person to bring up weed in on the board?



We could have entered WWII earlier, and saved countless lives and destruction. However, your ilk would have been screeching "Illegitimate War! Illegitimate War!"

Rational people have learned from the past. If the war is heading towards our doorstep, there's no need to wait until it gets here. Better to go out and confront it head on.

As the world continues to shrink, isolationism becomes as disproven a theory as socialism.

Again you haven't answered the question. Does One legit war justify all the rest?

ANd By the way Paton could have ended the war earlier as well but that didn't happen
And the train track to the death camps weren't bombed,
And IBM and Ford motor corporation -among others- supplied the Axis powers with tools of war before AND during the war.

to name a few thing that could have been done to make that war less severe.

And how wars has Switzerland been in lately? since they are "isolationist" and the world has shrunk so much.

How many invasions has China done in since they are also "Isolationist".
Compare that to our record.

[Robert A Whit]

By Revelarts: ANd By the way Paton could have ended the war earlier as well but that didn't happen
And the train track to the death camps weren't bombed,
And IBM and Ford motor corporation -among others- supplied the Axis powers with tools of war before AND during the war.

When you get free time, get some river rocks you can easily handle. Put up some target on a remote road by the River and as you pass a target you put up at some high speed, try hitting the target with rocks. if you manage to hit the target one time, you will maybe appreciate what it was like to bomb from a moving airplane flying probably over 200 mph at the time of the drop. Have someone else drive you while you try to hit the target.

Today the systems currently on airplanes make this taxk a piece of cake. Not so during Patton's era.

[revelarts]

When you get free time, get some river rocks you can easily handle. Put up some target on a remote road by the River and as you pass a target you put up at some high speed, try hitting the target with rocks. if you manage to hit the target one time, you will maybe appreciate what it was like to bomb from a moving airplane flying probably over 200 mph at the time of the drop. Have someone else drive you while you try to hit the target.

Today the systems currently on airplanes make this taxk a piece of cake. Not so during Patton's era.

It's much easier now than then no doubt. but they did bomb raillines, railway stations, roads and bridges all over Europe. I don't think the camps rail systems were ever even targeted though.

[taft2012]

Again you haven't answered the question. Does One legit war justify all the rest?

It's a silly question not worth addressing, but if your panties are going to remain wadded until answered, "NO"... there is no logical equation that applies legitimacy across the board. I can explain each and every one, but I'm not here to author a history text.




And how wars has Switzerland been in lately? since they are "isolationist" and the world has shrunk so much.

Not the best example since they're not a world power. However, since you brought them up, how do you suppose the world would have fared if everyone followed Switzerland's example in WWII?


How many invasions has China done in since they are also "Isolationist".

Well let's see.

We can obviously start with Taiwan, which they attempted several invasions of, and even had a 20 years artillery shelling war with.

Then we can move on to Tibet, which they annexed.

And of course, Korea.

Then there was the war with India.

Then they had military incursions into the Soviet Union and Vietnam.

And most recently they've been saber rattling with the Philippines over the Spratly Islands.

That's off the top of my head... am I missing any?

[taft2012]

It's much easier now than then no doubt. but they did bomb raillines, railway stations, roads and bridges all over Europe. I don't think the camps rail systems were ever even targeted though.

Also, they did not have liberal Uriah Heep sobsisters wringing their hands in anguish all over the media about every incident of collateral damage, of which there was quite a lot during WWII.

"ZOMG! Allied bombers were attempting to bomb a German munitions factory, but some shells landed in a park across the street, totally wiping out a family of ducks nesting adjacent to the pond. When will these allied abuses come to an end?"

or more recently, during the first Gulf War ....

"ZOMG! American bombers wiped out a 'baby milk factory' in Baghdad." :laugh:

[aboutime]

LOL Ok that was was a good one.:thumb:

Buuut Lets just see who's the next person to bring up weed in on the board?




Again you haven't answered the question. Does One legit war justify all the rest?

ANd By the way Paton could have ended the war earlier as well but that didn't happen
And the train track to the death camps weren't bombed,
And IBM and Ford motor corporation -among others- supplied the Axis powers with tools of war before AND during the war.

to name a few thing that could have been done to make that war less severe.

And how wars has Switzerland been in lately? since they are "isolationist" and the world has shrunk so much.

How many invasions has China done in since they are also "Isolationist".
Compare that to our record.


Rev. If you are going to try to convince all of us how intelligent you are concerning History. The least you could do
is spell PATTON's name correctly. But then. Why would someone so smart, and intelligent need to bother with
accuracy of any kind? Ya know? Like facts that cannot be disputed?

[fj1200]

...is spell PATTON's name correctly."Gobbles" agrees with this.

[aboutime]

"Gobbles" agrees with this.


FJ. You're just upset that your last name is used, and it doesn't matter how anyone spells it. Your hypocrisy, and double standards precede you here.

[fj1200]

FJ. You're just upset that your last name is used, and it doesn't matter how anyone spells it. Your hypocrisy, and double standards precede you here.

:dunno: I didn't see Adonis up there.

[aboutime]

:dunno: I didn't see Adonis up there.


Who mentioned being Gay? Unless you just opened the closet door.

[fj1200]

Who mentioned being Gay? Unless you just opened the closet door.

Not I. Are you having flashbacks to your Greek navy days?

[aboutime]

Not I. Are you having flashbacks to your Greek navy days?


DENIAL just doesn't work very well for you.

[fj1200]

DENIAL just doesn't work very well for you.

Says the guy that brings up gay. Wear it, it fits you.

[cadet]

Says the guy that brings up gay. Wear it, it fits you.


DENIAL just doesn't work very well for you.

Girls, you're both pretty! Now get your panties out of a bunch and get back on topic!

[DragonStryk72]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/tourback600.gif

Hm, I gotta point out one issue with the list. Japan shouldn't be on it. As of the time of WWII, they were quite happy with their rulership, and thus were already free. Actually, their desire to stick together as a community, and focus on such, was a large part of why our nation-building worked there when it didn't many other places.