Won't let me date your 13 yr old daughter? Bang, you're dead

[Abbey Marie]

Maria Saucedo, who was only 31, died the other day in Arizona when Jose Zarate shot her in the chest with a rifle after she refused to let him date her daughter. This sounds like a very ordinary tragedy, but it isn’t. Instead, it perfectly represents the way the Left has used bad ideas and corrupt language to allow terrible things to happen in this country.

Jose Zarate, who is 25-years-old, wanted to date Saucedo’s 13-year-old daughter. When Saucedo objected, Zarate pulled out a rifle and shot Saucedo in the chest, killing her. After his arrest, Deputy Joaquin Enriquez stated that “Sheriff’s deputies say Zarate is a non-U.S. citizen who has been living in the country without proper authorization.” In other words, Zarate is an illegal alien, a pedophile, and a murderer.
...

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/04/10515-25-year-old-illegal-immigrant-murders-mom-who-wouldnt-let-him-date-her-13-year-old-daughter/


On top of everything else wrong with this (freak), now they're "non-citizens"?

[Syrenn]

On top of everything else wrong with this (freak), now they're "non-citizens"?


and they want us to just let them in......

[jimnyc]

A non US citizen, undocumented, fence hopper - will now likely get a warm bed and 3 squares - on the taxpayer dime. Then they'll arrange to deport him, only to have Obama save him. :(

[Abbey Marie]

Wouldn't want to deport a future Dem voter now. Yes, there are people who are trying to get voting privileges for felons, too.

[Robert A Whit]

On top of everything else wrong with this (freak), now they're "non-citizens"?

Democrats don't know a word other than trying to make them seem to be virtual citizens to speak of them.

[tailfins]

Wouldn't want to deport a future Dem voter now. Yes, there are people who are trying to get voting privileges for felons, too.

With chief among them being Charlie Crist who may soon have the distinction of running for statewide office as a Republican, Independent and as a Democrat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcg_-8hB4E

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

On top of everything else wrong with this (freak), now they're "non-citizens"?

Really and no big outrage about this clown and his evil("assault")rifle from the usual suspects! I wonder why?
Can't use the standard anti-gun rhetoric against an illegal alien, no sir. That is reserved only for legal gun owners and law abiding citizens!-Tyr

[jafar00]

..and you people want more guns on the street and to allow anyone to buy one without background checks. Insanity.

[Marcus Aurelius]

..and you people want more guns on the street and to allow anyone to buy one without background checks. Insanity.

and you worship a pedophile and would allow your 6 year old daughter to marry a 40 year old and have sex with him at 9... just like your pedophile prophet.

Your point?

[SassyLady]

..and you people want more guns on the street and to allow anyone to buy one without background checks. Insanity.

Apparently we also allow idiots and illegals on the street who feel that they don't have to obey any laws of this country ... starting with entering illegally. Too bad there is no way to ban idiots!

[jafar00]

Apparently we also allow idiots and illegals on the street who feel that they don't have to obey any laws of this country ... starting with entering illegally. Too bad there is no way to ban idiots!

Keeping guns out of the hands of idiots is the whole idea behind gun control. I hope something is done about it soon. I hate reading these stories, but even more so when there is a school massacre.

[red states rule]

Keeping guns out of the hands of idiots is the whole idea behind gun control. I hope something is done about it soon. I hate reading these stories, but even more so when there is a school massacre.

and idiots like you actually believe CRIMINALS will obey the law. Perhaps if the THOUSANDS of current gun laws were enforce (and our boarders were secure) there would be more criminals in jail and fewer shootings

But then anti gun nuts like you would not have as many dead bodies to stand on top of and demand more gun laws

[Abbey Marie]

..and you people want more guns on the street and to allow anyone to buy one without background checks. Insanity.


Oh dear, and you think an illegal border-jumper is going to get a gun through legal means? You have just used the worst example for gun control ever. Insanity.

[SassyLady]

Keeping guns out of the hands of idiots is the whole idea behind gun control.

No it isn't. Gun control is about keeping guns from law-abiding Americans who will use them to defend themselves from dictators or foreign enemies. Anyone who thinks gun control will stop the idiots from getting them is, themselves, an idiot.

[red states rule]

No it isn't. Gun control is about keeping guns from law-abiding Americans who will use them to defend themselves from dictators or foreign enemies. Anyone who thinks gun control will stop the idiots from getting them is, themselves, an idiot.

Jaraf is from the school where why oppose more gun laws just because criminals don't follow laws

It is simply more liberal logic on display SL

[jafar00]

No it isn't. Gun control is about keeping guns from law-abiding Americans who will use them to defend themselves from dictators or foreign enemies. Anyone who thinks gun control will stop the idiots from getting them is, themselves, an idiot.

Isn't that what the Army is for? If we want to shoot guns, we join the reserves here. Weekend warriors get to do all sorts of fun, and dirty stuff in exotic places.
http://www.army.gov.au/Who-we-are/Divisions-and-Brigades/Forces-Command/6th-Brigade/~/media/Images/Who%20we%20are/Divisions%20and%20Brigades/FORCOMD/20110716adf8439709_046_PILBARA_460x306px.jpg

[Jeff]

Keeping guns out of the hands of idiots is the whole idea behind gun control. I hope something is done about it soon. I hate reading these stories, but even more so when there is a school massacre.

So in order to keep guns from idiots we should make them illegal :poke:

How about if we start enforcing the current laws we have and yes let more people that can pass the background check carry guns and then the idiots may not be so quick to pull there ILLEGAL guns

[jafar00]

So in order to keep guns from idiots we should make them illegal :poke:

How about if we start enforcing the current laws we have and yes let more people that can pass the background check carry guns and then the idiots may not be so quick to pull there ILLEGAL guns

Well, the only people shooting each other here are gang members.

We must be doing something right. The last time we had a massacre at a school, or in a theatre, or in a shopping centre was..... never.

We haven't had a massacre since tight gun control was introduced. How are YOU doin'?

[jimnyc]

..and you people want more guns on the street and to allow anyone to buy one without background checks. Insanity.

You say "you people" as if we were another color! LOL

Show me ANYWHERE where ANYONE here EVER advocated "anyone" being able to buy a gun without a background check. Making things up like this for effect won't help your argument.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Isn't that what the Army is for? If we want to shoot guns, we join the reserves here. Weekend warriors get to do all sorts of fun, and dirty stuff in exotic places.


too bad you dont have a 2nd amendment guaranteeing you the right to keep and bear arms like we do.

[jimnyc]

Keeping guns out of the hands of idiots is the whole idea behind gun control. I hope something is done about it soon. I hate reading these stories, but even more so when there is a school massacre.

The guns that people want banned make up a miniscule amount of the murders/deaths in our country. And while I hate to see school massacres too, they are also very, very minimal, just maximized in the media when it happens. But the deaths/murders in schools from guns is also an extreme minimal amount of the totals over the years.

[jimnyc]

Isn't that what the Army is for? If we want to shoot guns, we join the reserves here. Weekend warriors get to do all sorts of fun, and dirty stuff in exotic places.

The military is a national force. Here in America, we have a RIGHT to defend ourselves from criminals, dictators, foreign enemies - ANY enemy.

[jimnyc]

Well, the only people shooting each other here are gang members.

We must be doing something right. The last time we had a massacre at a school, or in a theatre, or in a shopping centre was..... never.

We haven't had a massacre since tight gun control was introduced. How are YOU doin'?

And yet crime has SKYROCKETED in Australia since gun confiscations took place, but you deny and ignore, so there is no point debating stats.

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.


Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:


In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:


Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

[jimnyc]

http://i.imgur.com/40p4mTH.jpg

[Jeff]

Well, the only people shooting each other here are gang members.

We must be doing something right. The last time we had a massacre at a school, or in a theatre, or in a shopping centre was..... never.

We haven't had a massacre since tight gun control was introduced. How are YOU doin'?


OK I don't remember comparing anything but ok , yea we have shooting but you ask how am I doing , I am fine not one shooting or any other kind of crime has happened to me or my loved ones .

So you think instead of enforcing existing laws we should just outlaw guns, ya have to love that logic, so ya make gun illegal and law abiding citizens turn theirs in do you really believe the criminals and (the idiots as you describe them) are going to hand in theirs ?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Well, the only people shooting each other here are gang members.

We must be doing something right. The last time we had a massacre at a school, or in a theatre, or in a shopping centre was..... never.

We haven't had a massacre since tight gun control was introduced. How are YOU doin'?

Not really.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/?Article_ID=17847
AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN


It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:




In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.


Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:




Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.

Source: Howard Nemerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," Free Republic, April 9, 2009.

[Jeff]

Well, the only people shooting each other here are gang members.

We must be doing something right. The last time we had a massacre at a school, or in a theatre, or in a shopping centre was..... never.

We haven't had a massacre since tight gun control was introduced. How are YOU doin'?
jarfar you will have to excuse me I haven't been on in a long time but I wonder where you live ? You say We must be doing something right and The last time we , so I just was wondering who we are

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The guns that people want banned make up a miniscule amount of the murders/deaths in our country. And while I hate to see school massacres too, they are also very, very minimal, just maximized in the media when it happens. But the deaths/murders in schools from guns is also an extreme minimal amount of the totals over the years.

Jafar also ignores the fact that our population is huge compared to that of Australia. About 15 times greater.-Tyr

Population, United States (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dkf7tgg1uo9ude_%26met_y%3Dpopulation %26idim%3Dcountry:US%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=us+po pulation&rct=j&sa=X&ei=XbBmUfDsE4j89gSpr4H4BQ&ved=0CDAQ6xYwAA&q=+usa+population&usg=AFQjCNEfXeg0QduI1GbI42nER0qE7LWgkA)
http://www.google.ca/chart?cht=lxy&chd=s:ABDFHJLNPRTUWYacegikmoprtvxz13579,iijjjkkkll mmnnooppqqrrrsstttuuvvv&chds=0.0,1.0&chs=160x101&chco=287bf5ff&chls=2.0,1.0,0.0&chxt=x,r,x,r&chxs=0,333333,0,0,tl,333333%7C1,333333,0,-1,tl,333333%7C2,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333%7C3,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333&chxtc=0,2%7C1,2%7C2,0%7C3,0&chm=h,cccccc,0,1,1,1%7Ch,cccccc,0,0.5,1,-1&chxp=2,0,82%7C3,5,50,95&chxl=0:%7C1980%7C2012%7C1:%7C0%7C200M%7C400M%7C2:% 7C1980%7C2012%7C3:%7C0%7C200M%7C400M (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dkf7tgg1uo9ude_%26met_y%3Dpopulation %26idim%3Dcountry:US%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=us+po pulation&rct=j&sa=X&ei=XbBmUfDsE4j89gSpr4H4BQ&ved=0CDEQswIwAA&q=+usa+population&usg=AFQjCNEfXeg0QduI1GbI42nER0qE7LWgkA)
www.google.ca/publicdata313,914,040 - Jul 2012
Source: U.S. Census Bureau
Disclaimer (http://www.google.ca/help/public_data_disclaimer.html)




Population, Australia (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dd5bncppjof8f9_%26met_y%3Dsp_pop_tot l%26idim%3Dcountry:AUS%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=aus tralia+population&rct=j&sa=X&ei=IbBmUbjAApKA9QTZ2YGIDw&ved=0CC8Q6xYwAA&q=&usg=AFQjCNH1uILgDdpDyxu2azTywKhaJoQMcA)
http://www.google.ca/chart?cht=lxy&chd=s:ABCDEFHIJKLNOPQRTUVWXZabcdfghijlmnoprstuvxyz 01345679,UVVWWXXXYYZaabbcccdddeeffgghhiijjjkkllmmm nnoopqqrstt&chds=0.0,1.0&chs=160x101&chco=287bf5ff&chls=2.0,1.0,0.0&chxt=x,r,x,r&chxs=0,333333,0,0,tl,333333%7C1,333333,0,-1,tl,333333%7C2,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333%7C3,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333&chxtc=0,2%7C1,2%7C2,0%7C3,0&chm=h,cccccc,0,1,1,1%7Ch,cccccc,0,0.5,1,-1&chxp=2,0,82%7C3,5,50,95&chxl=0:%7C1960%7C2011%7C1:%7C0%7C15M%7C30M%7C2:%7C 1960%7C2011%7C3:%7C0%7C15M%7C30M (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dd5bncppjof8f9_%26met_y%3Dsp_pop_tot l%26idim%3Dcountry:AUS%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=aus tralia+population&rct=j&sa=X&ei=IbBmUbjAApKA9QTZ2YGIDw&ved=0CDAQswIwAA&q=&usg=AFQjCNH1uILgDdpDyxu2azTywKhaJoQMcA)
www.google.ca/publicdata22,620,600 - 2011
Source: World Bank
Disclaimer (http://www.google.ca/help/public_data_disclaimer.html)






Demographics of Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia)

[Jeff]

jarfar you will have to excuse me I haven't been on in a long time but I wonder where you live ? You say We must be doing something right and The last time we , so I just was wondering who we are
Ok I see through others posting where WE are :laugh:

jafar the NRA uses your violence free country as a tool to keep our rights , no need for me to show facts as others have done so already but the first quarter after your Gun control took place the main city in your WE country had crime jump so much that it was enough for smart Americans to realize we don't want none of your WE stuff, so sell your LIES somewhere else

[Drummond]

Well, the only people shooting each other here are gang members.

We must be doing something right. The last time we had a massacre at a school, or in a theatre, or in a shopping centre was..... never.

We haven't had a massacre since tight gun control was introduced. How are YOU doin'?

You choose your words carefully .. don't you, Jafar ?

and ... STILL, you haven't got it quite right ...

From Wikipedia ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders)


Clifford Bartholomew massacre - A man shot dead ten members of his family in Hope Forest near Adelaide, September 1971.

22 September 1976 - William Robert Wilson - Killed two people and wounded four on Boundary Street, Spring Hill, Brisbane. Wilson took a .22 calibre rifle and 500 rounds of ammunition to Boundary Street around 12.30 pm and began shooting randomly. He shot and killed Monika Schleus, aged 17, as she crossed Boundary Street. Wilson shot and wounded Donald William Hepburn Galloway, who was also crossing the street. Proceeding to a milk bar, Wilson shot and killed

Marianne Kalatzis, aged 18, and wounded Mavis Ethel Sanders and Virginia Hollidge. In the neighbouring shop he shot and wounded Quinto Alberti. Wilson was captured by police around 4:15 pm at a suburban house where Wilson was holding a man and four young women hostage. Wilson served three years in a mental hospital. On being found fit for trial, he was sentenced in 1980 to two life sentences for the murders and 10 years each, concurrently, for the four attempted murders. He pleaded guilty to all charges.

Milperra massacre - Two biker gangs, the Comanchero and the Bandidos, engaged in a shoot-out in a hotel car park, killing 7 people in 1984, including a bystander. Only one defendant was acquitted on the murder charges.

Joseph Schwab - 1987, Schwab shot dead 5 people in and around the Kimberley region in Western Australia before being shot dead by police.

Hoddle Street massacre - Armed with two rifles and a shotgun, Julian Knight shot 7 people dead and wounded another 19 in 1987 before surrendering to authorities.

Queen Street massacre - Armed with a sawn-off rifle, Frank Vitkovic roamed the Australia Post building killing 8 and wounding 5, also in 1987. When the weapon was finally wrestled from him, he committed suicide by jumping out of a nearby window.

Surry Hills massacre - Paul Anthony Evers killed 5 people with a 12-gauge shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills in 1990 before surrendering to police.

Strathfield massacre - In 1991 Wade Frankum killed 7 people and wounded 6 others with a large knife and an SKS before turning the gun on himself when he realised he could not escape.

Central Coast Massacre - Malcolm Baker killed 6 people and injured another with a shotgun in 1992 before being arrested by police.

Port Arthur massacre - In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21 before being caught by police the next day following an overnight siege.

Childers Palace Fire - In June 2000, drifter and con-artist Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

Monash University shooting - In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.

Just as in the UK, gun laws have toughened up over time. But back in the mid-1990's, at the time of the UK's infamous Dunblane massacre, Australian laws were ALREADY more stringent than ours. So, did Australia's own massacres stop ?

NOT ACCORDING TO THE MATERIAL I QUOTE ABOVE !

The UK's Dunblane, and the more tightened gun laws brought in after that incident, still didn't stamp out such crimes .. see this, referring to 2007 ..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1393007/Cumbria-killer-Derrick-Birds-family-speak-anniversary-massacre.html

So your 'case' doesn't stand up to examination.Tyr makes an excellent point. The US's population is several times that of either the UK or Australia. So, a greater incidence of such crimes is only to be expected, JUST because a bigger population increases the chances of it happening. So, straight comparisons of incidences are simply spurious.

And consider that gun laws will ONLY have a curbing effect on LEGALLY owned guns. Criminals will just ignore 'restrictions' and get whatever they want. The law-abiding are deprived of guns, the criminals are NOT.

Besides, Jafar, do you REALLY imagine that killings are ONLY possible with guns ? How about with KNIVES ?

And what if they get guidance from your Islamist buddies ? Homemade bombs, maybe ?

Maybe beheadings will become more fashionable ?

Maybe some rocket launchers can be rented out at 'knockdown prices' ?

[Drummond]

Jafar also ignores the fact that our population is huge compared to that of Australia. About 15 times greater.-Tyr

Population, United States (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dkf7tgg1uo9ude_%26met_y%3Dpopulation %26idim%3Dcountry:US%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=us+po pulation&rct=j&sa=X&ei=XbBmUfDsE4j89gSpr4H4BQ&ved=0CDAQ6xYwAA&q=+usa+population&usg=AFQjCNEfXeg0QduI1GbI42nER0qE7LWgkA)


http://www.google.ca/chart?cht=lxy&chd=s:ABDFHJLNPRTUWYacegikmoprtvxz13579,iijjjkkkll mmnnooppqqrrrsstttuuvvv&chds=0.0,1.0&chs=160x101&chco=287bf5ff&chls=2.0,1.0,0.0&chxt=x,r,x,r&chxs=0,333333,0,0,tl,333333%7C1,333333,0,-1,tl,333333%7C2,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333%7C3,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333&chxtc=0,2%7C1,2%7C2,0%7C3,0&chm=h,cccccc,0,1,1,1%7Ch,cccccc,0,0.5,1,-1&chxp=2,0,82%7C3,5,50,95&chxl=0:%7C1980%7C2012%7C1:%7C0%7C200M%7C400M%7C2:% 7C1980%7C2012%7C3:%7C0%7C200M%7C400M (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dkf7tgg1uo9ude_%26met_y%3Dpopulation %26idim%3Dcountry:US%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=us+po pulation&rct=j&sa=X&ei=XbBmUfDsE4j89gSpr4H4BQ&ved=0CDEQswIwAA&q=+usa+population&usg=AFQjCNEfXeg0QduI1GbI42nER0qE7LWgkA)
www.google.ca/publicdata313,914,040 - Jul 2012
Source: U.S. Census Bureau
Disclaimer (http://www.google.ca/help/public_data_disclaimer.html)




Population, Australia (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dd5bncppjof8f9_%26met_y%3Dsp_pop_tot l%26idim%3Dcountry:AUS%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=aus tralia+population&rct=j&sa=X&ei=IbBmUbjAApKA9QTZ2YGIDw&ved=0CC8Q6xYwAA&q=&usg=AFQjCNH1uILgDdpDyxu2azTywKhaJoQMcA)


http://www.google.ca/chart?cht=lxy&chd=s:ABCDEFHIJKLNOPQRTUVWXZabcdfghijlmnoprstuvxyz 01345679,UVVWWXXXYYZaabbcccdddeeffgghhiijjjkkllmmm nnoopqqrstt&chds=0.0,1.0&chs=160x101&chco=287bf5ff&chls=2.0,1.0,0.0&chxt=x,r,x,r&chxs=0,333333,0,0,tl,333333%7C1,333333,0,-1,tl,333333%7C2,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333%7C3,000000,11.5,-1,tl,333333&chxtc=0,2%7C1,2%7C2,0%7C3,0&chm=h,cccccc,0,1,1,1%7Ch,cccccc,0,0.5,1,-1&chxp=2,0,82%7C3,5,50,95&chxl=0:%7C1960%7C2011%7C1:%7C0%7C15M%7C30M%7C2:%7C 1960%7C2011%7C3:%7C0%7C15M%7C30M (http://www.google.ca/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dd5bncppjof8f9_%26met_y%3Dsp_pop_tot l%26idim%3Dcountry:AUS%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=aus tralia+population&rct=j&sa=X&ei=IbBmUbjAApKA9QTZ2YGIDw&ved=0CDAQswIwAA&q=&usg=AFQjCNH1uILgDdpDyxu2azTywKhaJoQMcA)
www.google.ca/publicdata22,620,600 - 2011
Source: World Bank
Disclaimer (http://www.google.ca/help/public_data_disclaimer.html)





Demographics of Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia)

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Marcus Aurelius]

You choose your words carefully .. don't you, Jafar ?

and ... STILL, you haven't got it quite right ...

From Wikipedia ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders)

Clifford Bartholomew massacre - A man shot dead ten members of his family in Hope Forest near Adelaide, September 1971.

22 September 1976 - William Robert Wilson - Killed two people and wounded four on Boundary Street, Spring Hill, Brisbane. Wilson took a .22 calibre rifle and 500 rounds of ammunition to Boundary Street around 12.30 pm and began shooting randomly. He shot and killed Monika Schleus, aged 17, as she crossed Boundary Street. Wilson shot and wounded Donald William Hepburn Galloway, who was also crossing the street. Proceeding to a milk bar, Wilson shot and killed

Marianne Kalatzis, aged 18, and wounded Mavis Ethel Sanders and Virginia Hollidge. In the neighbouring shop he shot and wounded Quinto Alberti. Wilson was captured by police around 4:15 pm at a suburban house where Wilson was holding a man and four young women hostage. Wilson served three years in a mental hospital. On being found fit for trial, he was sentenced in 1980 to two life sentences for the murders and 10 years each, concurrently, for the four attempted murders. He pleaded guilty to all charges.

Milperra massacre - Two biker gangs, the Comanchero and the Bandidos, engaged in a shoot-out in a hotel car park, killing 7 people in 1984, including a bystander. Only one defendant was acquitted on the murder charges.

Joseph Schwab - 1987, Schwab shot dead 5 people in and around the Kimberley region in Western Australia before being shot dead by police.

Hoddle Street massacre - Armed with two rifles and a shotgun, Julian Knight shot 7 people dead and wounded another 19 in 1987 before surrendering to authorities.

Queen Street massacre - Armed with a sawn-off rifle, Frank Vitkovic roamed the Australia Post building killing 8 and wounding 5, also in 1987. When the weapon was finally wrestled from him, he committed suicide by jumping out of a nearby window.

Surry Hills massacre - Paul Anthony Evers killed 5 people with a 12-gauge shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills in 1990 before surrendering to police.

Strathfield massacre - In 1991 Wade Frankum killed 7 people and wounded 6 others with a large knife and an SKS before turning the gun on himself when he realised he could not escape.

Central Coast Massacre - Malcolm Baker killed 6 people and injured another with a shotgun in 1992 before being arrested by police.

Port Arthur massacre - In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21 before being caught by police the next day following an overnight siege.

Childers Palace Fire - In June 2000, drifter and con-artist Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

Monash University shooting - In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.


Just as in the UK, gun laws have toughened up over time. But back in the mid-1990's, at the time of the UK's infamous Dunblane massacre, Australian laws were ALREADY more stringent than ours. So, did Australia's own massacres stop ?

NOT ACCORDING TO THE MATERIAL I QUOTE ABOVE !

The UK's Dunblane, and the more tightened gun laws brought in after that incident, still didn't stamp out such crimes .. see this, referring to 2007 ..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1393007/Cumbria-killer-Derrick-Birds-family-speak-anniversary-massacre.html

So your 'case' doesn't stand up to examination.Tyr makes an excellent point. The US's population is several times that of either the UK or Australia. So, a greater incidence of such crimes is only to be expected, JUST because a bigger population increases the chances of it happening. So, straight comparisons of incidences are simply spurious.

And consider that gun laws will ONLY have a curbing effect on LEGALLY owned guns. Criminals will just ignore 'restrictions' and get whatever they want. The law-abiding are deprived of guns, the criminals are NOT.

Besides, Jafar, do you REALLY imagine that killings are ONLY possible with guns ? How about with KNIVES ?

And what if they get guidance from your Islamist buddies ? Homemade bombs, maybe ?

Maybe beheadings will become more fashionable ?

Maybe some rocket launchers can be rented out at 'knockdown prices' ?

none of that happened, you made it up... I mean, they aren't really Islamic... I mean.... Oh Hell..

ALLAH AKBAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(BOOM!!!)

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=630566#post630566)
Well, the only people shooting each other here are gang members.

We must be doing something right. The last time we had a massacre at a school, or in a theatre, or in a shopping centre was..... never.

We haven't had a massacre since tight gun control was introduced. How are YOU doin'?



Not really.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/?Article_ID=17847
AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN


It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:




In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.


Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:




Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.

Source: Howard Nemerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," Free Republic, April 9, 2009.

so... two people prove Jahil is either stupid, or a liar... with facts... and Jahil once again disappears from the thread.

Why do you even bother, you pedophile worshiping dumb ass?

[jafar00]

You choose your words carefully .. don't you, Jafar ?

and ... STILL, you haven't got it quite right ...

From Wikipedia ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders)



Just as in the UK, gun laws have toughened up over time. But back in the mid-1990's, at the time of the UK's infamous Dunblane massacre, Australian laws were ALREADY more stringent than ours. So, did Australia's own massacres stop ?

NOT ACCORDING TO THE MATERIAL I QUOTE ABOVE !

The UK's Dunblane, and the more tightened gun laws brought in after that incident, still didn't stamp out such crimes .. see this, referring to 2007 ..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1393007/Cumbria-killer-Derrick-Birds-family-speak-anniversary-massacre.html

So your 'case' doesn't stand up to examination.Tyr makes an excellent point. The US's population is several times that of either the UK or Australia. So, a greater incidence of such crimes is only to be expected, JUST because a bigger population increases the chances of it happening. So, straight comparisons of incidences are simply spurious.

And consider that gun laws will ONLY have a curbing effect on LEGALLY owned guns. Criminals will just ignore 'restrictions' and get whatever they want. The law-abiding are deprived of guns, the criminals are NOT.

Besides, Jafar, do you REALLY imagine that killings are ONLY possible with guns ? How about with KNIVES ?

And what if they get guidance from your Islamist buddies ? Homemade bombs, maybe ?

Maybe beheadings will become more fashionable ?

Maybe some rocket launchers can be rented out at 'knockdown prices' ?


Nice list. You will notice that after 1996 when tougher gun laws were introduced, there is just a guy who lit a fire, and one guy who shot 2 people dead. Nothing else. I wonder why?

The population thing is valid, however in the years after 1996 there have been too many gun massacres in the US to count even with my socks off, how many has Australia had?

[jimnyc]

Nice list. You will notice that after 1996 when tougher gun laws were introduced, there is just a guy who lit a fire, and one guy who shot 2 people dead. Nothing else. I wonder why?

The population thing is valid, however in the years after 1996 there have been too many gun massacres in the US to count even with my socks off, how many has Australia had?

http://i.imgur.com/40p4mTH.jpg

[aboutime]

Nice list. You will notice that after 1996 when tougher gun laws were introduced, there is just a guy who lit a fire, and one guy who shot 2 people dead. Nothing else. I wonder why?

The population thing is valid, however in the years after 1996 there have been too many gun massacres in the US to count even with my socks off, how many has Australia had?


Obviously jafar. None of them have been successful, according to you with your straw-dog suggestions. But you're still here. That means, somebody missed.

[Drummond]

Nice list. You will notice that after 1996 when tougher gun laws were introduced, there is just a guy who lit a fire, and one guy who shot 2 people dead. Nothing else. I wonder why?

The population thing is valid, however in the years after 1996 there have been too many gun massacres in the US to count even with my socks off, how many has Australia had?

Point #1.

Does it occur to you that the 'guy who lit a fire' might've been far less inclined to, if he thought he was likely to have bullets fired at him for his trouble ?

And besides, THAT incident helps to prove that, guns or no guns, there are still homicidal crazies out there who'll find ways of slaughtering many people at a time if they want to make the effort. The means MIGHT change (which is far from guaranteed) but the homicidal potential DOES NOT.

Point #2.

You're trying to have this both ways. The US has many times the population of Australia, so the incidence of such crimes WILL be a lot greater. But gun massacres haven't been stopped in Australia entirely, any more than they ALSO have in the UK.

Far more realistically, all that's really involved is that we're all waiting around for the next such massacre to occur. And, after all, one can happen at ANY time.

Care to expand this beyond the UK and Australia ? Does BREIVIK ring any bells with you ?

Enjoy this Leftie offering ....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/24/norway-strict-gun-laws-circumvented


The massacre on the island of Utøya is certain to lead to a security review, with particular stress on how Anders Behring Breivik obtained his weapons. Norway already has some of the toughest gun laws in the world, but they were apparently easily circumvented by the killer.

A licence is required to own a gun, and the owner must provide a written statement saying why he or she wants one. Many categories of guns, including automatics and some powerful handguns, are banned from sale altogether.

Hunting and outdoor sports are popular in Norway. But the laws are strict in these areas, too. Shotguns and rifles must be stored in a secure place, typically a specially designed gun safe, as must ammunition. Police have the right to inspect an owner's home to ensure the law is being followed.

Transporting a weapon to a public place is also covered by legislation. The owner must have a good reason for carrying a weapon, must ensure it is unloaded and concealed from view, but not worn on the body, and must keep the weapon under constant supervision.

Under the Firearm Weapons Act, only "sober and responsible" persons over the age of 18 may obtain a gun licence. For handguns, the age requirement is 21. In 2009, additional legislation was introduced, further tightening Norway's gun laws.

Being a Leftie publication, the Guardian, but of course, chucks in some spin. But even THEY concede the toughness of Norway's gun laws ... and nonetheless have had to conclude how easy it was for them to be circumvented, certainly allowing Breivik to have the means to mete out his own massacre.

Tough gun laws penalise the law-abiding citizen. The criminal is given an unacceptable edge. One paid for by atrocities.