And You Thought Gas Prices Were High Now

[red states rule]

More proof Obama is doing all he can to keep the cost of gas high and to force you into small golf carts with bucket seats

It is amazing to see the Obama water carriers deny Obama is responsible for the doubling of gas prices since taking office' despite all the evidence showing his lack of an energy plan, and insane energy policies like this one





Cleaner gas rule would mean higher price at pump

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration's newest anti-pollution plan would ping American drivers where they wince the most: at the gas pump. That makes arguments weighing the cost against the health benefits politically potent.


The proposal to reduce sulfur in gasoline and tighten auto emission standards, released Friday, would raise gasoline prices by less than a penny per gallon, the Environmental Protection Agency says. But the oil industry points to its own study putting the cost between 6 and 9 cents a gallon.


The EPA also said its proposal would add about $130 to the price of new vehicles, beginning in 2025.


The administration says the costs to consumers are worth the payoff: billions of dollars in health benefits from reductions in smog- and soot-forming pollution.
The agency predicts $7 in health benefits for every dollar spent to implement the new rules. The agency must hold public hearings before finalizing the rules. It plans for them to take effect in 2017.


The proposal was praised by environmentalists and health advocates, as well as automakers who say it will help the U.S. catch up with the cleaner fuels used in other nations. California already uses the sulfur standard.


EPA Acting Administrator Bob Perciasepe said the proposal is designed to "protect the environment and public health in an affordable and practical way."
Opponents say gasoline prices are stubbornly high already and Americans shouldn't have to pay more. The oil industry, Republicans and some Democrats had urged the EPA to hold off on proposing the tighter regulations.


"With $4 a gallon gas the norm in many parts of the country, we cannot afford policies that knowingly raise gas prices," House Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton said Friday. Instead, the Obama administration should work to increase energy supplies by approving the Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada and other projects, said Upton, R-Mich.

http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2013/03/29/epa-taking-aim-at-auto-emissions-sulfur-in-gas-n1552513

[Noir]

Who needs your health, when you can have cheaper gas...

[red states rule]

Who needs your health, when you can have cheaper gas...

The price has double in 4 years (driving up the cost of everything) and you call it cheap

And of course, libs say it is for our own good. Like I have not heard that one before

[Noir]

The price has double in 4 years (driving up the cost of everything) and you call it cheap

And of course, libs say it is for our own good. Like I have not heard that one before

Given its over $10 per gallon in the UK, yeah i'd call it cheap.

As for this proposed sulphur law, which do you consider more important, public health, or cents per gallon? I'd personally go for health, but if you'd rather have 60 extra cents every times you go to the pump, fair enough.

[red states rule]

Given its over $10 per gallon in the UK, yeah i'd call it cheap.

As for this proposed sulphur law, which do you consider more important, public health, or cents per gallon? I'd personally go for health, but if you'd rather have 60 extra cents every times you go to the pump, fair enough.

and why do you pay $10 gal? Thanks to the idiots you people put in office. They have to tax the hell out of gas so they can "afford" to pay for all the handouts to the lazy

Look at what is happening now? Governents are stealing money out of private bank accounts to try and cover the bill

Like most liberal "promisies" this amount to nothing more then more money for the government to piss through. Yea, improving health - like Obamacare?

[fj1200]

It is amazing to see the Obama water carriers deny Obama is responsible for the doubling of gas prices since taking office' despite all the evidence showing his lack of an energy plan, and insane energy policies like this one

I thought oil was the reason for the doubling of gas prices:

http://macromon.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gallon-of-gas1.jpg

[red states rule]

Yes FU I am well aware your blind loyalty to Obama is solid, and he is just an innocent bystander as gas high remain double what they were when first came to DC on his white horse ready to transform America

[fj1200]

Yes FU I am well aware your blind loyalty to Obama is solid, and he is just an innocent bystander as gas high remain double what they were when first came to DC on his white horse ready to transform America

:laugh:

[red states rule]

:laugh:

Like VP Joe Bite ME - you find the misery Obama and his policies are spreading over the nation funny. I am glad you are having such a good time FU at the expense of working folks you claim to care so much about

[fj1200]

Like VP Joe Bite ME - you find the misery Obama and his policies are spreading over the nation funny. I am glad you are having such a good time FU at the expense of working folks you claim to care so much about

That's not what I find funny.

[Voted4Reagan]

I thought oil was the reason for the doubling of gas prices:

http://macromon.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gallon-of-gas1.jpg

Your chart is more then 2 years out of date...

you need to update your source

[fj1200]

Your chart is more then 2 years out of date...

you need to update your source

You expect different results? Not that it matters to the point. My contention is that BO has no control over the price of oil. He could have control over refining costs via the EPA but I don't think there would be much difference in those costs.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You expect different results? Not that it matters to the point. My contention is that BO has no control over the price of oil. He could have control over refining costs via the EPA but I don't think there would be much difference in those costs.

Of course it is never BO faults about anything bad.
You need to get a new cheer hero.-Tyr

[fj1200]

Of course it is never BO faults about anything bad.
You need to get a new cheer hero.-Tyr

:dunno: I assign him blame for many a thing. But this thread is about gas prices.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:dunno: I assign him blame for many a thing. But this thread is about gas prices.

While you conveniently overlook his deliberate actions taken to not get us independent of foreign oil. You defend him as if he never stated he would like for gas prices here to be a high as they are in Europe. As if he doesn't want gas prices here to be higher.
Stop acting as if there is no cost to importing oil to be refined.
Obama energy policy in regards to foreign oil being bought is to make us more dependent. Quite convenient considering his muslim family heritage and self proclaimed loyalty to Islam, eh? -Tyr

http://www.policymic.com/articles/5379/high-gas-prices-are-president-obama-s-fault (http://www.policymic.com/articles/5379/high-gas-prices-are-president-obama-s-fault)

High Gas Prices Are President Obama's Fault


President Barack Obama takes no responsibility for anything — including a 100 percent rise in gasoline prices since taking office as our 44th president.

In 2008, when Obama was running for president, chief energy advisor to candidate Obama and now Energy Secretary Stephen Chu told The Wall Street Journal with regard to gas prices and dependence on fossil fuel: "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe."

In 2008, candidate Obama blamed the rise in gas prices on President Bush and his administration. This is what he said: “The President frankly has not had an energy policy ... our demand is badly outstripping supply with China and India.”
Obama went on to state in an interview with Steve Harwood of MSNBC that he agreed with Chu that rising gas prices would be a good thing because it would force citizens to drive less and look to alternative forms of energy. He preferred “a gradual adjustment” in pricing as opposed to a rapid spike.

[fj1200]

While you conveniently overlook his deliberate actions taken to not get us independent of foreign oil. You defend him as if he never stated he would like for gas prices here to be a high as they are in Europe. As if he doesn't want gas prices here to be higher.
Stop acting as if there is no cost to importing oil to be refined.
Obama energy policy in regards to foreign oil being bought is to make us more dependent. Quite convenient considering his muslim family heritage and self proclaimed loyalty to Islam, eh? -Tyr

:rolleyes: We'll never be energy independent. There's a difference in defending BO, which I'm not, and understanding reality. And please indicate where I ignored refining costs.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Like VP Joe Bite ME - you find the misery Obama and his policies are spreading over the nation funny. I am glad you are having such a good time FU at the expense of working folks you claim to care so much about

Apparently FU finds lots of bad things obama does to us funny.
His favorite cheer is -- not Obama fault!!! Then he spins away from any evidence which shows how it is his boywonder's fault.-Tyr

[fj1200]

Apparently FU finds lots of bad things obama does to us funny.
His favorite cheer is -- not Obama fault!!! Then he spins away from any evidence which shows how it is his boywonder's fault.-Tyr


That's not what I find funny.

I don't need to spin away from evidence that doesn't exist.

[Voted4Reagan]

You expect different results? Not that it matters to the point. My contention is that BO has no control over the price of oil. He could have control over refining costs via the EPA but I don't think there would be much difference in those costs.

You want to debate Energy Policy and where this administration has failed with it?

I worked in the Industry and would be happy to do so... Several folks here will tell you I know about this.

Tyr and Abouttime to name 2....

so... should we start with the fact that the Government under Obamas direction drove up the price of Oil in his first term from $1.35 a gallon to now still at almost $4.00 a gallon. Anincrease of almost 300%?

That Liberals blamed BUSH for High prices at the pumps but now that a Liberal is in the White House say there is NOTHING he can do about it!

That Obama suspended all deepwater drilling and passed a moratorium on Executive order that cost 10's of thousands of Jobs to the Gulf region...?

Lets Go FJ1200... I can go all day on n the Energy Issue

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You want to debate Energy Policy and where this administration has failed with it?

I worked in the Industry and would be happy to do so... Several folks here will tell you I know about this.

Tyr and Abouttime to name 2....

so... should we start with the fact that the Government under Obamas direction drove up the price of Oil in his first term from $1.35 a gallon to now still at almost $4.00 a gallon. Anincrease of almost 300%?

That Liberals blamed BUSH for High prices at the pumps but now that a Liberal is in the White House say there is NOTHING he can do about it!

That Obama suspended all deepwater drilling and passed a moratorium on Executive order that cost 10's of thousands of Jobs to the Gulf region...?

Lets Go FJ1200... I can go all day on n the Energy Issue

I give 5 to 1 odds that FJ1200 spins away from you my friend.
Almost 300% increase in 4 years , never heard of before in gas prices , never before obama that is. FJ will have a spin for that too. -Tyr

[fj1200]

You want to debate Energy Policy and where this administration has failed with it?

I worked in the Industry and would be happy to do so... Several folks here will tell you I know about this.

Tyr and Abouttime to name 2....

so... should we start with the fact that the Government under Obamas direction drove up the price of Oil in his first term from $1.35 a gallon to now still at almost $4.00 a gallon. Anincrease of almost 300%?

That Liberals blamed BUSH for High prices at the pumps but now that a Liberal is in the White House say there is NOTHING he can do about it!

That Obama suspended all deepwater drilling and passed a moratorium on Executive order that cost 10's of thousands of Jobs to the Gulf region...?

Lets Go FJ1200... I can go all day on n the Energy Issue

Are you also under the impression that I support BO or his energy policy? Besides I already laid out my contention in my response to your last post.

As far as who liberals blamed then or how they avoid the issue now really isn't about energy policy IMO.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...In 2008, candidate Obama blamed the rise in gas prices on President Bush and his administration. This is what he said: “The President frankly has not had an energy policy ... our demand is badly outstripping supply with China and India.”
Obama went on to state in an interview with Steve Harwood of MSNBC that he agreed with Chu that rising gas prices would be a good thing because it would force citizens to drive less and look to alternative forms of energy. He preferred “a gradual adjustment” in pricing as opposed to a rapid spike.

So, it's okay for Obama to blame Bush and his policies, but no one can blame Obama because his policies have no control over gas prices???

WTF???

[fj1200]

I give 5 to 1 odds that FJ1200 spins away from you my friend.
Almost 300% increase in 4 years , never heard of before in gas prices , never before obama that is. FJ will have a spin for that too. -Tyr

:rolleyes:

http://www.forecast-chart.com/images/chart-monthly/crude-oil-february.gif

numbered graph here (http://www.forecast-chart.com/chart-crude-oil.html):
http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=f&Period=120&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G

[Jeff]

You expect different results? Not that it matters to the point. My contention is that BO has no control over the price of oil. He could have control over refining costs via the EPA but I don't think there would be much difference in those costs.


Fj I agree with you to a point that BO isn't solely to blame but there are many things he could've done to help the price of fuel and while at it helped unemployment and a host of other problems this country has but he opted to shut the door , he wants to push this green power and thats fine but lets get the troubles we have now under control first.

Also I have to wonder ( and I am asking not accusing ) if you were one of the people screaming for Gw's head when gas was nearing $2.00 a gallon , you remember the pictures of him being hung , the BS how he wanted gas to rise so his family could make money well gas was half the price then than it is now and where have all those people gone ?

Noir I feel for ya with gas so high there , I spent a little time in Halifax Canada where it was outrages at the time also and it really hurts the ol wallet when you gas up so you can go back and forth to work and the price of gas is eating up so much of your pay check

[fj1200]

Fj I agree with you to a point that BO isn't solely to blame but there are many things he could've done to help the price of fuel and while at it helped unemployment and a host of other problems this country has but he opted to shut the door , he wants to push this green power and thats fine but lets get the troubles we have now under control first.

I agree that he could have done more to provide access to domestic oil reserves but I maintain that even if he had the price of oil and gas would be where it is today. Our true problem IMO is (mostly) unrelated to the price of gas; bad tax policy, bad regulatory policy, bad trade policies (but better now that some free trade pacts have finally been moved forward), and abysmal health care policies.


Also I have to wonder ( and I am asking not accusing ) if you were one of the people screaming for Gw's head when gas was nearing $2.00 a gallon , you remember the pictures of him being hung , the BS how he wanted gas to rise so his family could make money well gas was half the price then than it is now and where have all those people gone ?

Nope, because the POTUS has zero control over the price of oil. But I had been blaming the Federal Reserve for years before that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So, it's okay for Obama to blame Bush and his policies, but no one can blame Obama because his policies have no control over gas prices???

WTF???

With me it is not OK. However our little friend FJ SAYS --
OBAMA HAS NONE OF THE BLAME.


fj's tribute to his hero Obama -titled

My Hero Is Perfect

Don't blame my boy Obama the hero
Cry and moan, your gas never will be zero
Blame Bush for the increasing higher cost
My boy Obama won , your old guy lost

Three cheers for Obama the magnificent King
All your truths just don't mean a damn thing
I laugh at your misery and well deserved pain
Remember my perfect boy Obama won again! :laugh:----Tyr

[fj1200]

With me it is not OK. However our little friend FJ SAYS --
OBAMA HAS NONE OF THE BLAME.

:facepalm99: I see you have no response to actual reality.

[red states rule]

Apparently FU finds lots of bad things obama does to us funny.
His favorite cheer is -- not Obama fault!!! Then he spins away from any evidence which shows how it is his boywonder's fault.-Tyr

Tyr - you have to remember one thing about FU. He has yet to "come out" as a liberal and Obama lover

But I suspect he drops to his knees every night and utters this prayer to his "god"

(I got this in an email awhile ago)

"Our President, who art in the White House, hallow be thy name, OBAMA. Thy taxes come, thy will be done in America as it is in fascism. Give us this day our daily food stamps and forgive us our for our success as we forgive those who succeed more than we do. And lead us not into self-sufficiency but deliver us from capitalism. AMEN...I mean Hail Obama"

[fj1200]

Tyr - you have to remember one thing about FU. He has yet to "come out" as a liberal and Obama lover

But I suspect he drops to his knees every night and utters this prayer to his "god"

(I got this in an email awhile ago)

"Our President, who art in the White House, hallow be thy name, OBAMA. Thy taxes come, thy will be done in America as it is in fascism. Give us this day our daily food stamps and forgive us our for our success as we forgive those who succeed more than we do. And lead us not into self-sufficiency but deliver us from capitalism. AMEN...I mean Hail Obama"

I figured this would apply to you as well.


:facepalm99: I see you have no response to actual reality.

[red states rule]

If FU was a reporter here is how he would "report" Obama going 2 for 22 in free throws

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/130403klankRGB20130404044330.jpg

[Robert A Whit]

Tyr - you have to remember one thing about FU. He has yet to "come out" as a liberal and Obama lover

But I suspect he drops to his knees every night and utters this prayer to his "god"

(I got this in an email awhile ago)

"Our President, who art in the White House, hallow be thy name, OBAMA. Thy taxes come, thy will be done in America as it is in fascism. Give us this day our daily food stamps and forgive us our for our success as we forgive those who succeed more than we do. And lead us not into self-sufficiency but deliver us from capitalism. AMEN...I mean Hail Obama"

Here are some facts to follow at the end.

First it seems plausible to me to study what actually happens vs these dressed up predictions. I say dressed up and you can verify this should you visit the site I plan to post the link for.

I did not post the data since in my opinion, it would gobble up too much space and format funny.

But you can study it using the link.

Let's pick the state that tampers the least with gasoline, look at that price then compare to the state that tampers the most.

Wyoming tampers least. About $3.30 will get you a gallon of fuel.

CA tampers the most and you pay a staggering $4.03 per gallon. So, the EPA change it seems to me will produce price increases of as much as about $0.73 per gallon rather than the EPA claim of one cent and a study saying it is 9 cents per gallon.

Even if my numbers are not as precision as they can be, the fact that a number of states prices are far below CA prices has to prove something is not right with the EPA view of this.

Folks, only whey you pay CA prices can you actually see why this state has gone to hell.

Why not join us in hell? Works for the EPA.

Said link. Bear in mind these prices are for all states.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->http://www.californiagasprices.com/Prices_Nationally.aspx<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->

[red states rule]

http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/obamas-energy-policy.jpg

http://worshippingchristian.org/images/blog/drill_vs_inflate.jpg

[logroller]

Here are some facts to follow at the end.

First it seems plausible to me to study what actually happens vs these dressed up predictions. I say dressed up and you can verify this should you visit the site I plan to post the link for.

I did not post the data since in my opinion, it would gobble up too much space and format funny.

But you can study it using the link.

Let's pick the state that tampers the least with gasoline, look at that price then compare to the state that tampers the most.

Wyoming tampers least. About $3.30 will get you a gallon of fuel.

CA tampers the most and you pay a staggering $4.03 per gallon. So, the EPA change it seems to me will produce price increases of as much as about $0.73 per gallon rather than the EPA claim of one cent and a study saying it is 9 cents per gallon.

Even if my numbers are not as precision as they can be, the fact that a number of states prices are far below CA prices has to prove something is not right with the EPA view of this.

Folks, only whey you pay CA prices can you actually see why this state has gone to hell.

Why not join us in hell? Works for the EPA.

Said link. Bear in mind these prices are for all states.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->http://www.californiagasprices.com/Prices_Nationally.aspx<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
or maybe state aggregate fuel consumption has some bearing on pollution and the degree to which cleaner, yet more expensive, fuel blends become necessary.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/pl08021/fig5_2.cfm
http://scorecard.goodguide.com/env-releases/cap/rank-states-emissions.tcl

[aboutime]

red states rule. Last night. I heard Dennis Miller describe Obama's invitation to Joe Biden.

Asking him to show up for the EASTER EGG hunt, and play games like "PIN THE TAIL ON.....HIMSELF!"

I know this is OFF TOPIC. But after reading those "FACTS" below. I just had to change the subject.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:facepalm99: I see you have no response to actual reality.

Sure I do. Those are the ones you disagree with so damn often. Looks like RSR has you pegged as well. :laugh:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

With me it is not OK. However our little friend FJ SAYS --
OBAMA HAS NONE OF THE BLAME.


fj's tribute to his hero Obama -titled

My Hero Is Perfect

Don't blame my boy Obama the hero
Cry and moan, your gas never will be zero
Blame Bush for the increasing higher cost
My boy Obama won , your old guy lost

Three cheers for Obama the magnificent King
All your truths just don't mean a damn thing
I laugh at your misery and well deserved pain
Remember my perfect boy Obama won again! :laugh:----Tyr

What no bravo from you for my composition of how you'd compose your little tribute to Obama ? I am so disappointed. :laugh:

[logroller]

You want to debate Energy Policy and where this administration has failed with it?

I worked in the Industry and would be happy to do so... Several folks here will tell you I know about this.

Tyr and Abouttime to name 2....

so... should we start with the fact that the Government under Obamas direction drove up the price of Oil in his first term from $1.35 a gallon to now still at almost $4.00 a gallon. Anincrease of almost 300%?
Should we start with a cherry-picked number that ignores the depressed value of oil/gasoline in 2009 due to a flounderig economy? Or should we look at a decades-long trend?

That Liberals blamed BUSH for High prices at the pumps but now that a Liberal is in the White House say there is NOTHING he can do about it!

That Obama suspended all deepwater drilling and passed a moratorium on Executive order that cost 10's of thousands of Jobs to the Gulf region...?
How many jobs in fishing and tourism were lost due to the largest oil spill in history? Are oil jobs more important than fishing and tourism related jobs?


Lets Go FJ1200... I can go all day on n the Energy Issue

Explain why the price of oil and fuel have increased for over three decades? Why domestic production peaked in the 1970's despite the most productive oil field in US history being brought online during your beloved Reagan's administration? Maybe provide energy returned on energy invested ratios for fields you've been affiliated with. Perhaps provide data, empirical analysis using economic principles and their interrelation with policy mechanisms, urban and industrial infrastructure investment, long-term resource allocation and oil reserves, property in land and resources, market externalities....unless you're just some roughneck that likes to romance about tossing a chain tong, I'm your huckleberry!!!

[Robert A Whit]

I'm your huckleberry!!!

Oh god.

Love it.

[logroller]

Oh god.

Love it.
I contemplated using hucklebearer but, believe it or not, I play nice here.

[red states rule]

http://stutteringmessiah.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/obama-energy-policy-2.jpg

[fj1200]

Wyoming tampers least. About $3.30 will get you a gallon of fuel.

CA tampers the most and you pay a staggering $4.03 per gallon. So, the EPA change it seems to me will produce price increases of as much as about $0.73 per gallon rather than the EPA claim of one cent and a study saying it is 9 cents per gallon.

And CA also has among the highest gas taxes (69c) and WY the lowest (32.4c), no question though that CA does have higher refining standards which raises cost.
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_gas_taxes.php

I'd see little reason why we would need national standards to the level of CA.

[fj1200]

Sure I do. Those are the ones you disagree with so damn often. Looks like RSR has you pegged as well. :laugh:

Example please though I know it won't be forthcoming. I've never met two people who argue like libs in my entire life more than you guys... except for other libs that is.


What no bravo from you for my composition of how you'd compose your little tribute to Obama ? I am so disappointed. :laugh:

Example of my praise for BO please. Oh never mind, your perpetual ignorance is on display again.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Example please though I know it won't be forthcoming. I've never met two people who argue like libs in my entire life more than you guys... except for other libs that is.



Example of my praise for BO please. Oh never mind, your perpetual ignorance is on display again.

Here is one where you argue with ABBEY WHILE PUTTING DOWN OUR GUY. ALSO YOU CLEVERLY DEFENDED OBAMA WHILE DOING SO.
Defending the scum is praising him !!

THAT EXCHANGE ABBEY WAS 100% CORRECT, YOU WERE DEAD WRONG.
During the election campaign you had to defend your boy...:laugh:


12, 01:27 PM
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http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by fj1200 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=590883#post590883)
Why would you care if all you heard was the negative? Negative selling is not a long-term success strategy. I prefer my foundation of a people not wanting to only be living off government gratis. You seem to not recognize that we are four short years removed from an economic meltdown which people still blame Bush for and which stained Romney by being wealthy and a Republican.




I heard plenty more than negative from Romney. Did you not watch the debates? In fact, he and Ryan were somewhat criticized for staying so positive. Anyone who did not hear Romney's plans for the future and his many accomplishments simply chose not to listen or care. And as I've said, probably already had their minds made up.

People know that Obama had plenty of time to improve the economy. The fact that he made it measurably worse didn't even matter to them. Who cares about national debt when you are getting yourgovernment checks? It's a totally different mindset. The same mindset that woud see a man creating wealth as a negative.

[fj1200]

Here is one where you argue with ABBEY WHILE PUTTING DOWN OUR GUY. ALSO YOU CLEVERLY DEFENDED OBAMA WHILE DOING SO.
Defending the scum is praising him !!

THAT EXCHANGE ABBEY WAS 100% CORRECT, YOU WERE DEAD WRONG.
During the election campaign you had to defend your boy...:laugh:


Another example of you trying to read into what you want to find. That post was after the campaign btw. Nevertheless here was my response to Abbey that you failed to read or even look for.


Compared to where it was soon after he took office it has improved. I don't give him any credit for any "improvement" but people do because they don't look farther than who sits in the Oval Office. I said that he didn't do the "positive sell well enough" and I didn't see him doing much educating which was my point. Talking with my friend who was unlikely to vote for Romney, not BO though, because he didn't state his core values, limited government, etc. that is the core of conservatism. Listening to plans is one thing, and I agreed with those plans btw, but he lacked on the core fundamentals of educating the electorate.

I was thinking about this in the shower this morning; Obama and the Dems can only sell mere existence to the poor and working class by creating more and more entitlements and an expanded safety net but the Republicans can offer success if they can properly explain how conservative values will lead to greater opportunities; Kennedy's rising tide speech for example.

But those are just my impressions, yours may differ. :)

That's me defending BO? Please, it was my political take on why we lost; If you fail to understand where we are you will have no clue in how to get where we want to go.


You're looking though, congratulations, Keep up the effort.

[red states rule]

http://d1ovi2g6vebctw.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/blowhard.jpeg

[Robert A Whit]

http://d1ovi2g6vebctw.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/blowhard.jpeg

He sure looks angry when talking.

[red states rule]

He sure looks angry when talking.

He's a liberal. Libs are always angry even after they win elections. Look at FU and LR. Have they ever posted when they are not angry over something? Anything?

[fj1200]

He's a liberal. Libs are always angry even after they win elections. Look at FU and LR. Have they ever posted when they are not angry over something? Anything?

:laugh: Who could be angry when I have so much to laugh at? :laugh:

[red states rule]

:laugh: Who could be angry when I have so much to laugh at? :laugh:

Spending time worshiping yourself in the mirror again? Oh well, someone has to worship you given no one else will :laugh2:

[fj1200]

Spending time worshiping yourself in the mirror again? Oh well, someone has to worship you given no one else will :laugh2:

Nope, the comic relief you offer is pure gold.

[logroller]

He's a liberal. Libs are always angry even after they win elections. Look at FU and LR. Have they ever posted when they are not angry over something? Anything?
The issue here is you can't hang with fact presenters, so you're relegated to being an angry clown.
http://depositphotos.com/3248069/stock-photo-Evil-clown.html

[Robert A Whit]

He's a liberal. Libs are always angry even after they win elections. Look at FU and LR. Have they ever posted when they are not angry over something? Anything?

The one that is a loud mouth SOB is Marcus. As to those you name, it seems that if angry, they don't do it to all posters. I thought that FJ told us he did not support Obama.

To be honest, I am not clear who Logroller supported.

[red states rule]

The issue here is you can't hang with fact presenters, so you're relegated to being an angry clown.
http://depositphotos.com/3248069/stock-photo-Evil-clown.html

LR it is clear an "angry clown" is anyone who confronts a loyal Obama foot solider like you with facts that tend to bust the bubble you live in

A week of so ago you were giddy over the Obamacare exchanges that were set to open in your state - yet after I post several threads showing a total disaster those exchanges are becoming - you became silent and ignored those threads

That is what you Obamabots do best. You either make excuses, ignore facts, or just pretend everything is fine

Hell, 400,000 or so folks gave up looking for work last month - but damn - the unemployment dropped and that is what is important. Hell using that liberal logic LR if everyone without a job stopped looking for a job then Obama would become the first President to have a ZERO unemployment rate. And you and FU would throw a party in Obama's honor

Thanks to people like, either one of the gullible masses who actually believed Obama would restore peace and prosperity to the country and the world - or just another big government loving liberal - we are sentenced to four more years of Obamanomics

And as Obamacare takes its toll on the economy things will NOT get better LR and you and FU will spend the next years making excuses and blaming others for your boys failed policies

On my way to Wal Mart I saw where gas prices went up 3 more cents this morning. But hey that is not Obama's fault and we are in an economic recovery - right?

Meanwhile I will spend the next 4 years dealing with people trying to stay in homes they cannot afford and yes Obama wants banks to give home loans to people with less then good credit scores. I can't wait to read your spin on that one LR

Thanks for your efforts to keep this manchild President in office and I hope you enjoy the hope and change that is sweeping the nation LR

[fj1200]

"angry clown"

You ignore any fact that is not convenient to your viewpoint, you avoid debate when your position is shown to be wrong, and you resort to talking down the other side rather than bolstering your own position. You display all the markings of those you say you detest.

[red states rule]

You ignore any fact that is not convenient to your viewpoint, you avoid debate when your position is shown to be wrong, and you resort to talking down the other side rather than bolstering your own position. You display all the markings of those you say you detest.

That is your debate style not mine FU. Of course that is all you can do when you are out gunned and out maneuvered on nearly every thread you post on. Like Obama you accuse others of doing what you are in habit of doing on a daily basis.

[fj1200]

That is your debate style not mine FU. Of course that is all you can do when you are out gunned and out maneuvered on nearly every thread you post on. Like Obama you accuse others of doing what you are in habit of doing on a daily basis.

:laugh: Clearly you're delusional. Your post in response to my factual first post in this thread.


Yes FU I am well aware your blind loyalty to Obama is solid, and he is just an innocent bystander as gas high remain double what they were when first came to DC on his white horse ready to transform America

You ignored what isn't convenient; check. You avoided debate when shown you were wrong; check. You resorted to talking down rather than addressing the issue; check.

You couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag.

[red states rule]

:laugh: Clearly you're delusional. Your post in response to my factual first post in this thread.



You ignored what isn't convenient; check. You avoided debate when shown you were wrong; check. You resorted to talking down rather than addressing the issue; check.

You couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag.

Like most libs you not only are a serial liar you also are devoid of reality. I damn near pity you FU, but you deserve what you are

[fj1200]

Like most libs you not only are a serial liar you also are devoid of reality. I damn near pity you FU, but you deserve what you are

Point out my lib positions please. Point out a lie please. Point out where I'm "devoid of reality" as well. Pity me? :laugh:

[red states rule]

Point out a lie please. Point out where I'm "devoid of reality" as well. Pity me? :laugh:

The world you live in FU

and yes I damn near pity you

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vkAnhL7OH1E/TMkSDitM1TI/AAAAAAAACVY/dNByz9na9ho/s1600/five-pillars-of-the-liberal-faith.gif

[fj1200]

The world you live in FU

and yes I damn near pity you

:laugh: You can't do it so you come back with cartoons. Typical.

[fj1200]

Got another cartoon?

[Robert A Whit]

And CA also has among the highest gas taxes (69c) and WY the lowest (32.4c), no question though that CA does have higher refining standards which raises cost.
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_gas_taxes.php

I'd see little reason why we would need national standards to the level of CA.

I don't wish to ignore the state taxes and should have mentioned it. But the issue is the claimed 1 cent per gallon and I don't believe thus far, any poster has tried to reject that figure other than this poster.

This has nothing to do with what we are discussing but we all owe ourselves to look at the DVD Fracknation. It was produced by a pair of educators from Ireland of all places.

What is going on by too many in this nation is a blatant verbal war against oil companies and of course approval for things such as the delay by Obama over the keystone pipe project.

The left uses any tactics including lies, misdirection and sheer volume of noise to blast the oil business. As some point out here, even a big piece of prices is government itself.

[red states rule]

:laugh: You can't do it so you come back with cartoons. Typical.

I am simply trying to converse with you on your low intellectual level FU. I know you are easily confused - which is not hard to happen - so I try to keep it simple and easy for you to understand

I will try to dumb it down more for you. But I must warn you - there is a limit to how much stupidity I can tolerate from you

[red states rule]

I don't wish to ignore the state taxes and should have mentioned it. But the issue is the claimed 1 cent per gallon and I don't believe thus far, any poster has tried to reject that figure other than this poster.

This has nothing to do with what we are discussing but we all owe ourselves to look at the DVD Fracknation. It was produced by a pair of educators from Ireland of all places.

What is going on by too many in this nation is a blatant verbal war against oil companies and of course approval for things such as the delay by Obama over the keystone pipe project.

The left uses any tactics including lies, misdirection and sheer volume of noise to blast the oil business. As some point out here, even a big piece of prices is government itself.

Given taxes assessed by state, local, and the federal government exceed the amount of profit the oil companies make off the sale of a gallon of gas - it is common for libs to attack "Big Oil" while they pick the pockets of consumers with ever increasing taxes

Libs rant how Exxon made "record" profits last year - but never want to mention the record amount in taxes they handed over to the government

Exxon's effective tax rate was about 41% and yet libs rant how that is not enough

[red states rule]

Fj I agree with you to a point that BO isn't solely to blame but there are many things he could've done to help the price of fuel and while at it helped unemployment and a host of other problems this country has but he opted to shut the door , he wants to push this green power and thats fine but lets get the troubles we have now under control first.

Also I have to wonder ( and I am asking not accusing ) if you were one of the people screaming for Gw's head when gas was nearing $2.00 a gallon , you remember the pictures of him being hung , the BS how he wanted gas to rise so his family could make money well gas was half the price then than it is now and where have all those people gone ?

Noir I feel for ya with gas so high there , I spent a little time in Halifax Canada where it was outrages at the time also and it really hurts the ol wallet when you gas up so you can go back and forth to work and the price of gas is eating up so much of your pay check

Jeff, what do you think would happen to the price of oil on the world market if Obama would lift the drilling bans, approve the Keystone pipeline, open ANWAR up for drilling, and ordered expiated approval on all drilling permits on FEDERAL owned land?

Thw world and Arabs would see how serious we were on tapping our oil reserves and the price of oil would drop like a stone

But alas, Obama is a liberal and must bow before the enviro wackos thus making us dependent on foreign sources of oil

[Jeff]

Jeff, what do you think would happen to the price of oil on the world market if Obama would lift the drilling bans, approve the Keystone pipeline, open ANWAR up for drilling, and ordered expiated approval on all drilling permits on FEDERAL owned land?

Thw world and Arabs would see how serious we were on tapping our oil reserves and the price of oil would drop like a stone

But alas, Obama is a liberal and must bow before the enviro wackos thus making us dependent on foreign sources of oil

Without a doubt it would drop it would have to, once the Arab countries see we are actually going to look after our own they would have no other option than to drop prices

If you remember before the election although it was just a rumor how Obama had made a deal with his people where as if they kept prices ( high but stable , didn't keep climbing ) he would allow them to go crazy after the election well about a month or so ago we had major increases for no reason it has now at least down here leveled but I suspect right before summer it will boom again ( we always get a raise in prices and people just figure well they are screwing us because people will be traveling) I think Obama is much smarter than most criminals and that rumor about his deal is in fact true I look for prices to be so high by next winter it will be unreal

[red states rule]

Without a doubt it would drop it would have to, once the Arab countries see we are actually going to look after our own they would have no other option than to drop prices

If you remember before the election although it was just a rumor how Obama had made a deal with his people where as if they kept prices ( high but stable , didn't keep climbing ) he would allow them to go crazy after the election well about a month or so ago we had major increases for no reason it has now at least down here leveled but I suspect right before summer it will boom again ( we always get a raise in prices and people just figure well they are screwing us because people will be traveling) I think Obama is much smarter than most criminals and that rumor about his deal is in fact true I look for prices to be so high by next winter it will be unreal

Glad to see you actually paid attention in your Economics 101 class Jeff

Thanks to Obama and his "energy policy" home heating oil is over $4/gal and people are seriously hurting right now. Unless something happens soon gas could hit $5/gal this summer and only God knows what people will pay to stay warm during the winter

Of course there will be the usual bunch saying this is the normal, Obama is not to blame, and the people of the US are to blame since they are too cheap and stupid to switch to "green" sources of energy

[Robert A Whit]

Jeff, what do you think would happen to the price of oil on the world market if Obama would lift the drilling bans, approve the Keystone pipeline, open ANWAR up for drilling, and ordered expiated approval on all drilling permits on FEDERAL owned land?

Thw world and Arabs would see how serious we were on tapping our oil reserves and the price of oil would drop like a stone

But alas, Obama is a liberal and must bow before the enviro wackos thus making us dependent on foreign sources of oil

We saw what happened to natural gas prices once they were opened up to drilling and new finds were made available to market.

Prices fell like a stone from an airplane.

What I want to know is why propane is still so high?

[aboutime]

Got another cartoon?


fj. Post a personal photo of yourself. That should satisfy your question.

[logroller]

Jeff, what do you think would happen to the price of oil on the world market if Obama would lift the drilling bans, approve the Keystone pipeline, open ANWAR up for drilling, and ordered expiated approval on all drilling permits on FEDERAL owned land?Thw world and Arabs would see how serious we were on tapping our oil reserves and the price of oil would drop like a stoneBut alas, Obama is a liberal and must bow before the enviro wackos thus making us dependent on foreign sources of oilFollowing the 1970's oil crisis, reagan did just that in Alaska. At the same time, there was a decrease in demand, and prices fell...along with oil profits. Oil companies then ceased exploration, and prices rose once more. This trend continues. Absent a decrease in consumer demand, oil prices will stay high. If oil prices drop due to increased supply, oil companies explore less and pump less oil-- bringing the balance to a sustainable level of profits/production/consumption-- and all data shows that this level is trending upwards. If prices are high, they pump and explore more. Its pretty basic economics. What I see you refuse to accept is that the only reason oil companies want to drill is because oil prices are high. They're not going to pump more oil to save you a buck a gallon just to see their profits decrease; they tried that in eighties.

[logroller]

Without a doubt it would drop it would have to, once the Arab countries see we are actually going to look after our own they would have no other option than to drop prices

If you remember before the election although it was just a rumor how Obama had made a deal with his people where as if they kept prices ( high but stable , didn't keep climbing ) he would allow them to go crazy after the election well about a month or so ago we had major increases for no reason it has now at least down here leveled but I suspect right before summer it will boom again ( we always get a raise in prices and people just figure well they are screwing us because people will be traveling) I think Obama is much smarter than most criminals and that rumor about his deal is in fact true I look for prices to be so high by next winter it will be unreal

Did bush make that same deal then? Clinton? Bush II?

Reagan managed to undermine the OPEC cartel by creating a "glut" of oil that, enabled by a decrease in consumption, managed in creating a classic prisoner's dilemma. It was the precursor to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. Caused worldwide recessions among oil exporting countries. Devastated our own oil companies too; many oil towns and regions were severely affected and our own nation experienced a recession.

[logroller]

We saw what happened to natural gas prices once they were opened up to drilling and new finds were made available to market.

Prices fell like a stone from an airplane.


When did that happen?

[Kathianne]

When did that happen?

I was wondering that myself. Still awaiting Bobby's reply.

[fj1200]

I am simply trying to converse with you on your low intellectual level FU. I know you are easily confused - which is not hard to happen - so I try to keep it simple and easy for you to understand

I will try to dumb it down more for you. But I must warn you - there is a limit to how much stupidity I can tolerate from you

Thank you for proving me correct yet again.


You ignore any fact that is not convenient to your viewpoint, you avoid debate when your position is shown to be wrong, and you resort to talking down the other side rather than bolstering your own position. You display all the markings of those you say you detest.

You should have stuck with the cartoons, they have higher level of intellectual intelligence than you're able to muster.


fj. Post a personal photo of yourself. That should satisfy your question.

When I go looking for humor I just think about you knuckleheads attempting rational discussion.

[fj1200]

Without a doubt it would drop it would have to, once the Arab countries see we are actually going to look after our own they would have no other option than to drop prices

Unfortunately the major oil producers have a large price advantage (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=367&t=6) over the US:


Costs for Producing Crude Oil and Natural Gas, 2007–20092009 Dollars per Barrel of Oil Equivalent1

<tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">

Lifting Costs
Finding Costs
Total Upstream Costs


United States – Average
$12.18
$21.58
$33.76


On-shore
$12.73
$18.65
$31.38


Off-shore
$10.09
$41.51
$51.60








All Other Countries –Average
$9.95
$15.13
$25.08


Canada
$12.69
$12.07
$24.76


Africa
$10.31
$35.01
$45.32


Middle East
$9.89
$6.99
$16.88


Central & South America
$6.21
$20.43
$26.64

</tbody>


And I would guess, but log probably knows better, that new US fields would probably be more expensive to tap. They also have enough market power to just curtail production to counter any increase in US supply.

[fj1200]

Jeff, what do you think would happen to the price of oil on the world market if Obama would lift the drilling bans, approve the Keystone pipeline, open ANWAR up for drilling, and ordered expiated approval on all drilling permits on FEDERAL owned land?

Thw world and Arabs would see how serious we were on tapping our oil reserves and the price of oil would drop like a stone

But alas, Obama is a liberal and must bow before the enviro wackos thus making us dependent on foreign sources of oil

Not much. We are a long way off from being energy independent:

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.gif

Updated graph here (http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?country=us). Nevertheless, homeowners and builders are suffering with the massive increases in copper costs; we should petition BO to increase US production, open new fields, and approve the new copper pipeline from Canada.

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chtt=Copper+price+chart&chts=000000,12&chs=700x420&chf=bg,s,ffffff|c,s,ffffff&chxt=x,y&chxl=0:||1960|1963|1966|1969|1972|1975|1978|1981|1 984|1987|1990|1993|1996|1999|2002|2005|2008|2011|2 012|1:||1:|633.1|2666.7|4700.3|6733.9|8767.5&cht=lc&chd=t:8,7,7,7,11,15,17,13,14,17,16,12,12,20,23,14, 16,15,16,23,25,20,17,18,16,16,16,20,30,32,30,27,26 ,22,26,33,26,26,19,18,21,18,18,20,33,42,77,81,79,5 9,86,100,92&chdl=($/mt)&chco=000099&chls=3,1,0

Hey, wait a minute, that graph looks familiar.

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chtt=Crude+oil,+Spot+Average+price+chart&chts=000000,12&chs=700x420&chf=bg,s,ffffff|c,s,ffffff&chxt=x,y&chxl=0:||1960|1963|1966|1969|1972|1975|1978|1981|1 984|1987|1990|1993|1996|1999|2002|2005|2008|2011|2 012|1:||1:|1.2|27.4|53.7|79.9|106.1&cht=lc&chd=t:2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,10,10,11,12,12,2 9,35,33,31,28,27,26,14,17,14,17,22,18,18,16,15,16, 19,18,12,17,27,23,23,27,36,50,61,67,91,58,74,98,10 0&chdl=($/bbl)&chco=000099&chls=3,1,0

Of course here's the real problem IMO.

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/au3650nyb.gif


Glad to see you actually paid attention in your Economics 101 class Jeff

Unfortunately this is a bit higher than Econ 101; if only you hadn't stopped there.

[red states rule]

I am so sorry to bust your bubble FU

OK, I'm really not





Romney Was Right on Oil, Gas Production on Federal Lands Decreasing (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/330692/romney-was-right-oil-gas-production-federal-lands-decreasing-katrina-trinko)

Who’s right? Romney, according to Greenwire (http://rlch.org/news/drilling-leaves-fed-lands-because-state-private-acres-are-cheaper-says-blm-chief):

Oil production fell by 14 percent in fiscal 2011 below the previous year on federal lands and waters, according to statistics provided last month by the Interior Department. Natural gas production fell 11 percent over the same period (Greenwire, Feb. 27).
Here are some more details from Heritage’s Rob Bluey (http://blog.heritage.org/2012/03/19/production-of-oil-gas-and-coal-on-federal-lands-sinks-to-nine-year-low/):

During this same period, production on state and private lands has increased, boosting overall production numbers for the United States. That’s a point even President Obama will acknowledge: “Under my Administration, domestic oil and natural gas production is up,” he said upon announcing his rejection of the Keystone XL pipeline (http://blogs.canada.com/2012/01/18/president-obamas-statement-on-rejecting-proposed-keystone-xl-pipeline/).


Obama is correct. He just can’t rightfully claim the credit, since the vast majority of America’s new oil and gas production is happening on private lands (http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/03/small-town-bucks-the-economic-trend-with-energy-production/) in states like North Dakota, Alaska and Texas.


The administration, meanwhile, has also taken several steps to limit production. Heritage’s Nick Loris noted these four steps taken by the Obama administration:


Withdrew (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134670) areas offered for 77 oil and gas leases in Utah that could cost American taxpayers millions in lost lease bids, production royalties, new jobs and the energy needed to offset rising imports of oil and natural gas.Cancelled (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/05/president-obama-to-cancel-offshore-drilling-projects/) lease sales in the Western Gulf of Mexico, the Atlantic coast and delayed exploration off the coast of Alaska and kept other resource-rich areas off-limits (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=179299).Finalized (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=186056) rules, first announced by Secretary Salazar on January 6, 2010, to establish more government hurdles to onshore oil and natural gas production on federal lands.Withdrew (http://billingsgazette.com/news/opinion/editorial/gazette-opinion/article_bb25685e-33df-11df-ae5a-001cc4c002e0.html) 61 oil and natural gas leases in Montana as part of a lawsuit settlement over climate change.
So it’s Obama, not Romney, was making statements that just weren’t true.







OK FU, you may resume worshiping Obama

[fj1200]

I am so sorry to bust your bubble FU

OK, I'm really not

OK FU, you may resume worshiping Obama

:facepalm99: At this point I guess you're just being willfully ignorant. But you prove me right again.


You ignore any fact that is not convenient to your viewpoint, you avoid debate when your position is shown to be wrong, and you resort to talking down the other side rather than bolstering your own position. You display all the markings of those you say you detest.

[aboutime]

:facepalm99: At this point I guess you're just being willfully ignorant. But you prove me right again.


FJ. That's how it works when everyone here is doing their best to IMPERSONATE, and EMULATE you. So, with you. We are all failures like you.

[fj1200]

FJ. That's how it works when everyone here is doing their best to IMPERSONATE, and EMULATE you. So, with you. We are all failures like you.

You really have no idea what's going on do you?

BTW, who is "Gobbles"?

[aboutime]

You really have no idea what's going on do you?

BTW, who is "Gobbles"?


Don't ask me. Ask yourself. We're all pretending to be our best YOU.

[fj1200]

Don't ask me. Ask yourself. We're all pretending to be our best YOU.

I can only assume you're trying to reference Goebbels which would make the answer to my question, yes.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by aboutime http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=630196#post630196)

Don't ask me. Ask yourself. We're all pretending to be our best YOU.



I can only assume you're trying to reference Goebbels which would make the answer to my question, yes.

HE is like bed bugs. When you think you can have a decent conversation, he pops up trying to ruin threads. Almost impossible to get rid of, like bed bugs.

The jerk got on a topic about (should kids have sex) and corrupted to his favorite topic, adults with kids, committing crimes. What a bed bug.

[red states rule]

Don't ask me. Ask yourself. We're all pretending to be our best YOU.

AT unless you have a degree in Child Psy you cannot have a rational conversation with FU

Like his guy Obama, he has a very inflated opinion on himself, talks down to people, has a short fuse, does not to have anyone disagree with him, and gets very PO'd when facts get in the way of his incoherent rants

[fj1200]

AT unless you have a degree in Child Psy you cannot have a rational conversation with FU

Like his guy Obama, he has a very inflated opinion on himself, talks down to people, has a short fuse, does not to have anyone disagree with him, and gets very PO'd when facts get in the way of his incoherent rants

Unlike you I love facts, you should try posting some relevant ones. But all I need to know about your position is that aboutime agrees with you; that's not saying much.

[red states rule]

Unlike you I love facts, you should try posting some relevant ones. But all I need to know about your position is that aboutime agrees with you; that's not saying much.

I have you like a dog on a leash. I yank and you come

[fj1200]

I have you like a dog on a leash. I yank and you come

So you being stupid is an act? God I hope so.

[red states rule]

So you being stupid is an act? God I hope so.

Sit boy

Heal!!
You are such a troll FU. But a well trained troll as of now :laugh2:

[logroller]

I have you like a dog on a leash. I yank and you come
Please don't share your perverse fetishes. Its an adult site, but not that kind of adult site. BTW mr Econ 101, you said supply goes up and prices to down; then why is it that production is up and so are prices. I eagerly await your response.

[Robert A Whit]

Please don't share your perverse fetishes. Its an adult site, but not that kind of adult site. BTW mr Econ 101, you said supply goes up and prices to down; then why is it that production is up and so are prices. I eagerly await your response.

How are prices in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait?

Tell you what. I will give you Kuwait and you give me Saudi Arabia.

Kuwait Price per gallon of premium gasoline: $0.89
Price change since last quarter: +1.1%
Most-expensive-gas rank: #58
Pain-at-the-pump rank: #59

Petroleum accounts for almost half of Kuwait's gross domestic product and 95 percent of its exports and government income. In 2010, the country approved a plan to spend $130 billion over five years to diversify the economy.
When global gas prices rise, Kuwaitis profit. This year's oil revenue has boosted government income and spending in Kuwait, including wage increases for public-sector employees.
Gas prices aren't felt much. The average daily income in Kuwait is $146. The share of a day's wages needed to buy a gallon of gas is less than 1 percent.

[aboutime]

AT unless you have a degree in Child Psy you cannot have a rational conversation with FU

Like his guy Obama, he has a very inflated opinion on himself, talks down to people, has a short fuse, does not to have anyone disagree with him, and gets very PO'd when facts get in the way of his incoherent rants

No need for such a degree. I have five grandchildren, all of whom are smarter, wiser, and more human than the invisible FU.

Matter of fact. Three of those very intelligent grandchildren are in the GIFTED classes. Not to be confused with the Short Bus 4836classes of which it seems...FU is very familiar.

[logroller]

How are prices in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait?

Tell you what. I will give you Kuwait and you give me Saudi Arabia.

Kuwait

Price per gallon of premium gasoline: $0.89
Price change since last quarter: +1.1%
Most-expensive-gas rank: #58
Pain-at-the-pump rank: #59

Petroleum accounts for almost half of Kuwait's gross domestic product and 95 percent of its exports and government income. In 2010, the country approved a plan to spend $130 billion over five years to diversify the economy.
When global gas prices rise, Kuwaitis profit. This year's oil revenue has boosted government income and spending in Kuwait, including wage increases for public-sector employees.
Gas prices aren't felt much. The average daily income in Kuwait is $146. The share of a day's wages needed to buy a gallon of gas is less than 1 percent.
whats your point; are we in kuwait? saudi arabia? Does the price of fuel in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait affect our pump prices? I know why Kuwaitis and Saudi Arabians pay less; their respective governments, which actually own the oil, subsidize domestic fuel. Are you saying we should socialize oil production and trust government to use profits to subside our fuels? Somehow I doubt it. Now, why does our own production of oil increase with higher fuel prices if supply increases should bring down fuel price? You and rsr claim that to be the case, yet it isn't. I know why, but apparently you aren't convinced. I'd like either if you to explain.

[Robert A Whit]

whats your point; are we in kuwait? saudi arabia? Does the price of fuel in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait affect our pump prices? I know why Kuwaitis and Saudi Arabians pay less; their respective governments, which actually own the oil, subsidize domestic fuel. Are you saying we should socialize oil production and trust government to use profits to subside our fuels? Somehow I doubt it. Now, why does our own production of oil increase with higher fuel prices if supply increases should bring down fuel price? You and rsr claim that to be the case, yet it isn't. I know why, but apparently you aren't convinced. I'd like either if you to explain.

You asked about huge supplies but high prices.

I pointed out that you posed a false claim, that prices won't be low due to high supply. My data does not support your claims.

I thought you could figure that out. Sorry.

[logroller]

You asked about huge supplies but high prices.

I pointed out that you posed a false claim, that prices won't be low due to high supply. My data does not support your claims.

I thought you could figure that out. Sorry.
I'm quite sure that we are talking domestic..if not, than the false statement was in the thread title....I'm quite sure you knew that we were talking about the US and just want to introduce a red herring. Unless, of course, you are saying that the US should nationalize and subsidize oil to bring about lower prices. If not, then you offer only drivel completely devoid of any sense of answering the question as to why gas prices are high and so is oil production.
so if I rephrase the question to specify domestic oil production in the United States of America, can you answer the question as to why fuel prices rise and production rises too?

[Robert A Whit]

I'm quite sure that we are talking domestic..if not, than the false statement was in the thread title....I'm quite sure you knew that we were talking about the US and just want to introduce a red herring. Unless, of course, you are saying that the US should nationalize and subsidize oil to bring about lower prices. If not, then you offer only drivel completely devoid of any sense of answering the question as to why gas prices are high and so is oil production.
so if I rephrase the question to specify domestic oil production in the United States of America, can you answer the question as to why fuel prices rise and production rises too?

Well, you don't know. That satisfies me. LMAO

[logroller]

Well, you don't know. That satisfies me. LMAO
So you can't explain it.

[Robert A Whit]

So you can't explain it.

Make me this commitment and I will share.

Commit to accept what I explain.

Deal?

[logroller]

Make me this commitment and I will share.

Commit to accept what I explain.

Deal?
i see. You'll only explain if you aren't challenged.
Start a blog. Its a debate site. you wont explain it because I can disprove your theory. I've put forth my theory on the increasing cost of petroleum extraction--- which you've failed to disprove. In case you're wondering, that's a win for me. Keep living in your dreamy beliefs, let me know when reality comes around and you want to discuss it.

[Robert A Whit]

i see. You'll only explain if you aren't challenged.
Start a blog. Its a debate site. you wont explain it because I can disprove your theory. I've put forth my theory on the increasing cost of petroleum extraction--- which you've failed to disprove. In case you're wondering, that's a win for me. Keep living in your dreamy beliefs, let me know when reality comes around and you want to discuss it.

1 pt for first statement.
0 for suggestion.
0 pt for self serving reason
1 pt for putting up your own wild idea
0 not clear what that means as applied to me. win you say? Don't know then what you need me for.
I believe that since I have arrived here, I have amply given price theory.

[logroller]

1 pt for first statement.
0 for suggestion.
0 pt for self serving reason
1 pt for putting up your own wild idea
0 not clear what that means as applied to me. win you say? Don't know then what you need me for.
I believe that since I have arrived here, I have amply given price theory.
Price theory? Go on...

[red states rule]

Please don't share your perverse fetishes. Its an adult site, but not that kind of adult site. BTW mr Econ 101, you said supply goes up and prices to down; then why is it that production is up and so are prices. I eagerly await your response.

LR like your boy Obama, you ignore the facts and toss out outdated or false data to try and prove your position. You do it on this thread while your bot Obama does it on guns, the budget, Obamacare, and all other issues

You have learned well

YOu can ignore production is down - thnaks to his drilling ban and blocking of drilling on Federal land - and you will continue to blame people like me for driving a car that runs of gas to go to work everyday

That is what libs like you do best. You hold your fellow elected Dems harmless while pointing fingers at those trying to survive in the Obama economy

BTW how is Obamacare and those exchanges working out for you? You are ignoring all the threads with the updated info on Obamacare. Can't say that I blame you :laugh2:

[fj1200]

Sit boy

Heal!!
You are such a troll FU. But a well trained troll as of now :laugh2:

It's like talking to a parrot, words come out but no intelligence behind them.


LR like your boy Obama...

The same unintelligent words even. Let me know when you have an actual response to post #76.

[fj1200]

No need for such a degree. I have five grandchildren, all of whom are smarter, wiser, and more human than the invisible FU.

Matter of fact. Three of those very intelligent grandchildren are in the GIFTED classes. Not to be confused with the Short Bus classes of which it seems...FU is very familiar.

"Gobbles" would be proud of you knuckleheads.

[Robert A Whit]

LR like your boy Obama, you ignore the facts and toss out outdated or false data to try and prove your position. You do it on this thread while your bot Obama does it on guns, the budget, Obamacare, and all other issues

You have learned well

YOu can ignore production is down - thnaks to his drilling ban and blocking of drilling on Federal land - and you will continue to blame people like me for driving a car that runs of gas to go to work everyday

That is what libs like you do best. You hold your fellow elected Dems harmless while pointing fingers at those trying to survive in the Obama economy

BTW how is Obamacare and those exchanges working out for you? You are ignoring all the threads with the updated info on Obamacare. Can't say that I blame you :laugh2:

Obama might as well sit as the head of oil companies boards of directors. How many times daily do you hear of gun control by Obama?

Then he yaps endlessly about what he calls health care.

FYI, I went to the lab yesterday to get blood work done for my two doctors. And on the wall next to the window you sign in at, a sign says Medicare has cut back paying for procedures. Such as pap smears. And PSA tests once you get over 50. That is correct, apparently you won't need them once you pass 50 years of age. And this is what Obama means when he says he cut back money to providers and that he wants us to prevent diseases?

Anyway, when can you recall Obama getting upset over the high prices of fuels?

He actually wants it to be high priced so he refuses to take this up as any sort of cause.

Oil companies picked up on this thus keep prices sky high.

How many of you have actually experienced a price war at gas stations?

Back when I was in high school and even to the point I was in my 30s, we had price wars. Gas stations cut each others throats to sell gasoline. They gave out free dishes, green stamps used to get merchandise and many things to get you to buy gasoline.

Standard oil had Lucky license and around 1968 I won $1,000 just for having the correct license plate.

Back then, we actually did know the meaning of the word freedom.

[aboutime]

"Gobbles" would be proud of you knuckleheads.


fj. Of course he would. He'd be so proud of our ability to Emulate your words, thoughts, and even your looks. No matter how much fun you make of the spelling. It all points back to 'fj'.

[fj1200]

fj. Of course he would. He'd be so proud of our ability to Emulate your words, thoughts, and even your looks. No matter how much fun you make of the spelling. It all points back to 'fj'.

:dunno:

[red states rule]

fj. Of course he would. He'd be so proud of our ability to Emulate your words, thoughts, and even your looks. No matter how much fun you make of the spelling. It all points back to 'fj'.

AT you will have to take FU with many grains of salt. He is the toughest taking blow hard we have had since Virgil. Alas, as you have seen, he is unable to back any of it up.

The poor guy has enough mold on his brain to make several quarts of penicillin may be the reason he cannot carry on a conversation with anyone here

Now if he was a lawyer, he could sue me for definition of character

[aboutime]

AT you will have to take FU with many grains of salt. He is the toughest taking blow hard we have had since Virgil. Alas, as you have seen, he is unable to back any of it up.

The poor guy has enough mold on his brain to make several quarts of penicillin may be the reason he cannot carry on a conversation with anyone here

Now if he was a lawyer, he could sue me for definition of character


Definition of character? That's good. I was thinking more along the lines...like Obama, and the IMMACULATE MISS-CONCEPTION.

[red states rule]

Definition of character? That's good. I was thinking more along the lines...like Obama, and the IMMACULATE MISS-CONCEPTION.

I have posted several links showing Mitt was right in the debate that oil production has decreased under Obama

Yet FU and LR continue to stroll down the Yellow Brick Road and say Obama has increased oil production

Then again, LR was saying how great Obamacare was and was looking forward to those "exchanges"

Until I started several threads pointing out the reality of Obamacare and those exchanges

Since then, all LR has offered was the sound of crickets chirping

[aboutime]

I have posted several links showing Mitt was right in the debate that oil production has decreased under Obama

Yet FU and LR continue to stroll down the Yellow Brick Road and say Obama has increased oil production

Then again, LR was saying how great Obamacare was and was looking forward to those "exchanges"

Until I started several threads pointing out the reality of Obamacare and those exchanges

Since then, all LR has offered was the sound of crickets chirping


red states rule. When I first joined this forum last year. I was under the impression that FJ and LR had made claims they were conservatives. But, after reading many of their combined posts. It didn't take long to learn the true meaning of RINO.

Sadly. Both of them will just have to learn...from personal experience. How their intentional forms of snobbery will come back to BITE them...eventually.

[red states rule]

red states rule. When I first joined this forum last year. I was under the impression that FJ and LR had made claims they were conservatives. But, after reading many of their combined posts. It didn't take long to learn the true meaning of RINO.

Sadly. Both of them will just have to learn...from personal experience. How their intentional forms of snobbery will come back to BITE them...eventually.

They make John McCain look like a Ronald Reagan conservative

I do believe both FU and LR both graduated the Massachusetts Institute of Snobbery with honors

[logroller]

I have posted several links showing Mitt was right in the debate that oil production has decreased under Obama

Yet FU and LR continue to stroll down the Yellow Brick Road and say Obama has increased oil production

Then again, LR was saying how great Obamacare was and was looking forward to those "exchanges"

Until I started several threads pointing out the reality of Obamacare and those exchanges

Since then, all LR has offered was the sound of crickets chirping

Show me the data rsr. I've shown the data that shows when oil prices are high, production increases. It may have gone down in certain areas,(like federal offshore.) but the total US DOMESTIC PRODUCTION OF PETROLEUM HAS GONE UP DURING OBAMA. Its a fact, and one that doesn't sit well for you because it shatters your increased production side fix for fuel prices. In fact, when oil prices slip, production decreases. It did during bush despite massive drilling efforts, yet overall, the price of fuel still increased and continues to do so because the president doesn't have that much control over fuel prices. The economy does!!!
All you offer as proof is a picture of the night sky as proof the sun burnt out. You're nothing but a cherry picker, blaming everybody else because hey, you were wide open. Never mind that you were offsides of reality.

[logroller]

They make John McCain look like a Ronald Reagan conservative

I do believe both FU and LR both graduated the Massachusetts Institute of Snobbery with honors
At least we're not teaching a weekend course on bdsm.

[aboutime]

At least we're not teaching a weekend course on bdsm.


logroller. Remember those words of your above. We're not talking about how, and when...you were conceived.

[fj1200]

... as you have seen, he is unable to back any of it up.

:rolleyes: Still ignoring post 76 I see.


It didn't take long to learn the true meaning of RINO.

Example?


Never mind, you two are as dumb as rocks.

[Robert A Whit]

[QUOTE=fj1200;630470]:rolleyes: Still ignoring post 76 I see./QUOTE]

<!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> http://gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

Then read this:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2012-04-21/global-factors-gasoline-prices/54421804/1

I include part of the article but ask yourself this important question:

Much oil comes from TX. And in CA a lot of oil comes from CA wells.

So why is oil cheapest where Montana and Wyoming are?

The article talks of global oil. But Montana is pretty remote from Saudi Arabia yet states that are next to the ocean still pay more. Even in states, prices vary a lot.

No, this is not over some towel heads trying to hurt you.

Given America's new oil rush, it would seem the best of times for gas prices. But with $4-per-gallon sticker shock, it might feel like the worst of times.



By Damian Dovarganes, AP file
A tanker truck delivers gasoline at a service station in Los Angeles.
Enlarge
By Damian Dovarganes, AP file
A tanker truck delivers gasoline at a service station in Los Angeles.
Sponsored Links How can this be?
The question is all the more perplexing, because the United States (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Places,+Geography/Countries/United+States) is not only producing more crude oil but also using less of it. As a result, net oil imports have dropped a third since 2005.
With such good fortune, America's soaring pump prices seem to defy the laws of supply and demand — except for one fact: It's increasingly not just about us.a

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

[logroller]

LR like your boy Obama, you ignore the facts and toss out outdated or false data to try and prove your position. You do it on this thread while your bot Obama does it on guns, the budget, Obamacare, and all other issues

You have learned well

YOu can ignore production is down - thnaks to his drilling ban and blocking of drilling on Federal land - and you will continue to blame people like me for driving a car that runs of gas to go to work everyday

That is what libs like you do best. You hold your fellow elected Dems harmless while pointing fingers at those trying to survive in the Obama economy

BTW how is Obamacare and those exchanges working out for you? You are ignoring all the threads with the updated info on Obamacare. Can't say that I blame you :laugh2:
Back that up. Show me the data.
Here is actual data. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=m
ata

total us production is up. Down in offshore, down in fed lands, up overall. Gas comes from any and all sources. So I suppose you closetly expect the government to bail you out and provide gas cheaper. What a hypocrite you are. I bet you've sucked off the government health insurance before too.

[red states rule]

Show me the data rsr. I've shown the data that shows when oil prices are high, production increases. It may have gone down in certain areas,(like federal offshore.) but the total US DOMESTIC PRODUCTION OF PETROLEUM HAS GONE UP DURING OBAMA. Its a fact, and one that doesn't sit well for you because it shatters your increased production side fix for fuel prices. In fact, when oil prices slip, production decreases. It did during bush despite massive drilling efforts, yet overall, the price of fuel still increased and continues to do so because the president doesn't have that much control over fuel prices. The economy does!!!
All you offer as proof is a picture of the night sky as proof the sun burnt out. You're nothing but a cherry picker, blaming everybody else because hey, you were wide open. Never mind that you were offsides of reality.

Here you go - again

Now do like you have done with the Obamacare threads and ignore




Who’s right? Romney, according to Greenwire (http://rlch.org/news/drilling-leaves-fed-lands-because-state-private-acres-are-cheaper-says-blm-chief):

Oil production fell by 14 percent in fiscal 2011 below the previous year on federal lands and waters, according to statistics provided last month by the Interior Department. Natural gas production fell 11 percent over the same period (Greenwire, Feb. 27).
Here are some more details from Heritage’s Rob Bluey (http://blog.heritage.org/2012/03/19/production-of-oil-gas-and-coal-on-federal-lands-sinks-to-nine-year-low/):

During this same period, production on state and private lands has increased, boosting overall production numbers for the United States. That’s a point even President Obama will acknowledge: “Under my Administration, domestic oil and natural gas production is up,” he said upon announcing his rejection of the Keystone XL pipeline (http://blogs.canada.com/2012/01/18/president-obamas-statement-on-rejecting-proposed-keystone-xl-pipeline/).


Obama is correct. He just can’t rightfully claim the credit, since the vast majority of America’s new oil and gas production is happening on private lands (http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/03/small-town-bucks-the-economic-trend-with-energy-production/) in states like North Dakota, Alaska and Texas.


The administration, meanwhile, has also taken several steps to limit production. Heritage’s Nick Loris noted these four steps taken by the Obama administration:


Withdrew (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134670) areas offered for 77 oil and gas leases in Utah that could cost American taxpayers millions in lost lease bids, production royalties, new jobs and the energy needed to offset rising imports of oil and natural gas.Cancelled (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/05/president-obama-to-cancel-offshore-drilling-projects/) lease sales in the Western Gulf of Mexico, the Atlantic coast and delayed exploration off the coast of Alaska and kept other resource-rich areas off-limits (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=179299).Finalized (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=186056) rules, first announced by Secretary Salazar on January 6, 2010, to establish more government hurdles to onshore oil and natural gas production on federal lands.Withdrew (http://billingsgazette.com/news/opinion/editorial/gazette-opinion/article_bb25685e-33df-11df-ae5a-001cc4c002e0.html) 61 oil and natural gas leases in Montana as part of a lawsuit settlement over climate change.
So it’s Obama, not Romney, was making statements that just weren’t true.


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/330692/romney-was-right-oil-gas-production-federal-lands-decreasing-katrina-trinko

[red states rule]

At least we're not teaching a weekend course on bdsm.

If you were a native American you would be called Chief Slinging Bull

[logroller]

Here you go - again

Now do like you have done with the Obamacare threads and ignore
Where does our fuel come from rsr-- just fed land? Why do ignore that total us production is up?

[red states rule]

Where does our fuel come from rsr-- just fed land? Why do ignore that total us production is up?

Like your boy Obama - keep singing the same ol' song and ignore reality

[logroller]

Here you go - again

Now do like you have done with the Obamacare threads and ignore
Here I go again? Here you go again. When have I ever said that oil production has anything to do with Obama? You seem to think I do; but i've stated otherwise, repeatedly!!!! Price is the determinant to oil production. Companies pump more when the can make more money, regardless of what land it's on.

Although President Obama often took an antagonistic position with respect to the fossil fuel industry during his first term, the industry actually fared pretty well. U.S. oil production and dry natural gas production were both sharply higher during President Obama’s first term, but coal production fell slightly relative to President Bush’s second term.
To be clear, the production increases for oil and natural gas were not the result of President Obama’s energy policies. Rather it was due to persistently high oil and gas prices during the latter part of the last decade, which led to record investments by oil and gas companies into the development of new projects....
This exercise is not meant to demonstrate that President Obama is better for fossil fuel companies than was President Bush. What the exercise demonstrates is that external factors grossly trump presidential policies when it comes to the performance of fossil fuel companies. Price is the most important determinant, but companies with superior management and that make good decisions can even make money when prices are softening.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/12/18/the-energy-sector-under-president-obama-ignore-the-drama-big-oil-will-do-just-fine/

[red states rule]

Obama's energy polices have caused a sharp decline in oil production and prices therefore rise




In his announcement rejecting the Keystone XL pipeline (http://blogs.canada.com/2012/01/18/president-obamas-statement-on-rejecting-proposed-keystone-xl-pipeline/) today, President Obama boasted that under his administration, “domestic oil and natural gas production is up.” Obama, of course, failed to mention that his administration can’t actually take any credit for the increase (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=275080).


The vast majority of America’s new oil and gas production is happening on private lands (http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/03/small-town-bucks-the-economic-trend-with-energy-production/) in states like North Dakota, Alaska and Texas.


It’s not that Obama is devoid of responsibility. His administration oversees oil and gas production on federal lands by issuing leases. But when measuring oil and gas production in areas under Obama’s jurisdiction, the numbers tell a different story.


Citing publicly available federal data, the House Natural Resources Committee noted these figures (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=275080):




Oil and natural gas production on federal lands is down by more than 40 percent (http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/pdf/sec1_30.pdf) compared to 10 years ago.




Under the Obama administration, 2010 had the lowest number of onshore leases (http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/energy/oil___gas_statistics/fy_2011.Par.19679.File.dat/chart_2011_03.pdf) issued since 1984.




The Obama administration held only one offshore lease sale (http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=272562) in 2011.


Despite the Obama administration’s restrictive policies for oil and gas production on federal lands, overall production still increased thanks to the pro-energy policies in states like North Dakota.


“North Dakota has been the poster child for what can happen when we unleash free enterprise and allow states to develop and commercialize their resources,” Heritage’s Nick Loris wrote recently on The Foundry (http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/03/small-town-bucks-the-economic-trend-with-energy-production/). “North Dakota is drilling at record pace.”


The result: North Dakota’s unemployment rate is 3.4 percent, the lowest in the country. According to a recent report from IHS Global Insight (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-19/north-dakota-thrives-as-nevada-suffers-in-divergent-u-s-recovery-economy.html), North Dakota already returned to pre-recession employment along with energy-rich Alaska. Texas is expected to do so in the first quarter of 2012, followed by Nebraska and South Dakota next year.


Those states all have something in common: energy production.


http://blog.heritage.org/2012/01/18/under-obama-oil-and-gas-production-on-federal-lands-is-down-40/

[logroller]

Production is up. Your own source said so rsr. I never said Obama gets credit. He did, but its not true. But production is up. Its a fact!!! A fact . Confirmed. What you are talking about is federal lands alone due to the offshore ban on drilling, which isn't felt now, but later. It takes years to bring a well online, so there's a lag of years. Would I like to see more oil pumped from offshore? maybe. But that needs to balanced with the potential for accidents, which aren't a question of if, but when. The oil spill in the gulf devastated the region. Fishing yields are down as much as 70%. Nobody even knows the full extent of the damage. What do tell those people rsr-- Suck it up, find a new job? Its so easy to look at it from one perspective, one single area of production and point fingers, blame Obama. People did it to bush and I disagreed then too. But its no way to improve this country. It only makes it worse.

[red states rule]

Production is up. Your own source said so rsr. I never said Obama gets credit. He did, but its not true. But production is up. Its a fact!!! A fact . Confirmed. What you are talking about is federal lands alone due to the offshore ban on drilling, which isn't felt now, but later. It takes years to bring a well online, so there's a lag of years. Would I like to see more oil pumped from offshore? maybe. But that needs to balanced with the potential for accidents, which aren't a question of if, but when. The oil spill in the gulf devastated the region. Fishing yields are down as much as 70%. Nobody even knows the full extent of the damage. What do tell those people rsr-- Suck it up, find a new job? Its so easy to look at it from one perspective, one single area of production and point fingers, blame Obama. People did it to bush and I disagreed then too. But its no way to improve this country. It only makes it worse.

Any increase in production is due to activity on private land and despite the roadblocks Obama an libs have put up. BTW look at the employment level in those states LR

Obama is doing his best to block as much drilling as possible and that is a fact as well



Oil and natural gas production on federal lands is down by more than 40 percent (http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/pdf/sec1_30.pdf) compared to 10 years ago.


People like you have been saying "it takes years" and if we would have started years ago - then the price of gas may be alot cheaper

If you are so worried about safety LR why not demand a ban of=n driving due to accidents and deaths?

The amount of oil spilled in the Gulf would not have filled the Super dome LR. I know people like you are upset the spill was not worse. The Gulf has recovered and are open for business much to your dismay

If you are so worried about the residents along the Gulf, why not tell your boy Obama to lift the drilling ban and put people back to work LR? Then they can earn money and spend that money in the local businesses.

But that would make sense and you cannot have any of that when dealing with enviro wackos

Like Obamacare, his budget, - Obama's energy policy is harming the middle class and driving up the price of everything

Liberal compassion once again on display for all to see

[logroller]

Obama's energy polices have caused a sharp decline in oil production and prices therefore rise

WTF are you talking about? production is up. its got zilch to do with obama. I'm sorry you're so stuck in your hatred from Obama you cant see that.

[red states rule]

WTF are you talking about? production is up. its got zilch to do with obama. I'm sorry you're so stuck in your hatred from Obama you cant see that.

Once again, anytime you disagree and point out how Obama's energy policy has caused oil production on Federal land to drop - and keep the total amount of oil production down - it is HATE

LR you have now become a liberal loon and Obama lap dog

Nice dodge on my questions LR. I see answering questions is a one way street with you

[taft2012]

You ignore any fact that is not convenient to your viewpoint, you avoid debate when your position is shown to be wrong, and you resort to talking down the other side rather than bolstering your own position.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--jFQ1MPR75Y/UTbZZ6BvSZI/AAAAAAAAA3I/19Ja0xcZCE8/s1600/magic_mirror.jpg

[taft2012]

WTF are you talking about? production is up. its got zilch to do with obama. I'm sorry you're so stuck in your hatred from Obama you cant see that.

He said this:


Any increase in production is due to activity on private land and despite the roadblocks Obama an libs have put up.

It's a rather straight forward statement. Why do you actively ignore it?

[fj1200]

I include part of the article but ask yourself this important question:

Much oil comes from TX. And in CA a lot of oil comes from CA wells.

So why is oil cheapest where Montana and Wyoming are?

The article talks of global oil. But Montana is pretty remote from Saudi Arabia yet states that are next to the ocean still pay more. Even in states, prices vary a lot.

No, this is not over some towel heads trying to hurt you.


Given America's new oil rush, it would seem the best of times for gas prices. But with $4-per-gallon sticker shock, it might feel like the worst of times.

How can this be?
The question is all the more perplexing, because the United States (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Places,+Geography/Countries/United+States) is not only producing more crude oil but also using less of it. As a result, net oil imports have dropped a third since 2005.
With such good fortune, America's soaring pump prices seem to defy the laws of supply and demand — except for one fact: It's increasingly not just about us.a

You're own article answers your question.


"The market for oil is global," ...

1. Global crude oil price increases.
2. Iran and other geopolitical uncertainties.
3. Limited spare capacity.
4. Rising worldwide demand.
5. Refinery closures/production costs.


Yet you keep raising the WY vs. CA issue as if it has much relevance. The relative cost to move oil/gas cross country is very low. My gas comes from LA by pipeline iirc but I don't think New Orleans has much price advantage over Atlanta.

[fj1200]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--jFQ1MPR75Y/UTbZZ6BvSZI/AAAAAAAAA3I/19Ja0xcZCE8/s1600/magic_mirror.jpg

:facepalm99:


He said this:

It's a rather straight forward statement. Why do you actively ignore it?

Who ignored it? You could also ask others why they actively ignore relevant data.

[logroller]

Any increase in production is due to activity on private land and despite the roadblocks Obama an libs have put up.
OK. So you admit production is up. That's a start. geez. Now, do you understand that oil companies are in the business of making money, and that they will pump more oil so long as it's financially beneficial? That when prices are high, they pump more to make more money. When they make more money, they invest more into oil extraction because the tax breaks such invest gets them. But ewhen the price goes down, no matter how much oil they have just waiting at the wellhead, there's little incentive for them to pump more to keep those prices low, much less lower them more.




BTW look at the employment level in those states LR
Which states?


Obama is doing his best to block as much drilling as possible and that is a fact as well



Oil and natural gas production on federal lands is down by more than 40 percent (http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/pdf/sec1_30.pdf) compared to 10 years ago.


People like you have been saying "it takes years" and if we would have started years ago - then the price of gas may be alot cheaper
Except, we've already established that production is up, as are gas prices. Because businesses that make money off oil pump more when its worth more.



If you are so worried about safety LR why not demand a ban of=n driving due to accidents and deaths?

There is a utilitarian purpose to vehicles RSR, but we would do well to reduce our dependence on personal transportation-- its incredibly inefficient.



The amount of oil spilled in the Gulf would not have filled the Super dome LR.
Fun-facts....the amount of oil leaving the wellhead daily was enough to satisfy the statewide demand of the Delaware.


I know people like you are upset the spill was not worse.
Why would I want the spill to be worse? That's just crazy talk. From now on, when you insult me, I'll just stop reading.

[logroller]

Once again, anytime you disagree and point out how Obama's energy policy has caused oil production on Federal land to drop - and keep the total amount of oil production down - it is HATE

LR you have now become a liberal loon and Obama lap dog

Nice dodge on my questions LR. I see answering questions is a one way street with you
The data disagrees with your contention that an increase in drilling on federal land will increase domestic production. The prvailing questions being dodged are why oil prices and domestic production correlate? Why did oil prices increase during Bush's terms?

[logroller]

He said this:



It's a rather straight forward statement. Why do you actively ignore it?
I haven't ignored it. Production from federal land is included in us domestic oil production data, which I have shown is up. Gasoline doesn't just come from federal land production so gross domestic oil production is a better indicator than just federal lands. Why do you, among others, actively ignore that? Furthermore, why do you ignore that production and gas prices across multiple administrations all show the same trend? I've explained, offered data, charts, and reports from reputable financial sources that show the price of oil drives oil companies to produce more; why do you ignore all that? I know oil traders, producers, lease owners, resource land purveyors...probably 40 associates of mine with well over 1000 years of experience between them and they all know what drives them to produce more oil-- more profit. So unless you wish to have a conversation on the intrinsic profit advantage of federally produced oil, which I'm guessing, you do not, then do yourself a favor and don't worry about what happens on fed land.

[taft2012]

I haven't ignored it. Production from federal land is included in us domestic oil production data, which I have shown is up.

I understand. It's willful ignorance, which there isn't much point in arguing with.

In New York City we have a Schools Chancellor, who oversees the operations of the city's 1500 public schools.

If he came out tomorrow and announced that "Reading scores of New York City school children have increased by 5% this year!", that would be great.

But what if further review determined that the 5% citywide improvement was entirely due to reading score increases among parochial school students? And even further review determined that reading score among public school students had actually gone DOWN.

Technically the Schools Chancellor would be telling the truth. Absolutely he would be taking credit for something he had nothing to do with and covering up his own failure.

That's the same tactic Obama is using with domestic oil production, and frankly your stubborn defense of it demonstrates a complete lack of independent thinking and a thorough drone mentality.

[fj1200]

I understand. It's willful ignorance, which there isn't much point in arguing with.

...

That's the same tactic Obama is using with domestic oil production, and frankly your stubborn defense of it demonstrates a complete lack of independent thinking and a thorough drone mentality.

:facepalm99:

[taft2012]

:facepalm99:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--jFQ1MPR75Y/UTbZZ6BvSZI/AAAAAAAAA3I/19Ja0xcZCE8/s1600/magic_mirror.jpg

[fj1200]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--jFQ1MPR75Y/UTbZZ6BvSZI/AAAAAAAAA3I/19Ja0xcZCE8/s1600/magic_mirror.jpg

Thanks for validating your lack of an argument.

[taft2012]

Thanks for validating your lack of an argument.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--jFQ1MPR75Y/UTbZZ6BvSZI/AAAAAAAAA3I/19Ja0xcZCE8/s1600/magic_mirror.jpg

[taft2012]

Thanks for validating your lack of an argument.

If your intent is to prove this, a more effective tactic would be to specifically demonstrate how my analogy is invalid.

As opposed to just deleting it and pretending it isn't there.

[fj1200]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--jFQ1MPR75Y/UTbZZ6BvSZI/AAAAAAAAA3I/19Ja0xcZCE8/s1600/magic_mirror.jpg

:facepalm99:


If your intent is to prove this, a more effective tactic would be to specifically demonstrate how my analogy is invalid.

As opposed to just deleting it and pretending it isn't there.

It's a pointless analogy. While you knuckleheads ignore everything posted by lr and me you keep harping on an irrelevant statistic. Besides, your analogy speaks to BO's political message which is not really of issue when we get right down to it.

[taft2012]

:facepalm99:



It's a pointless analogy. While you knuckleheads ignore everything posted by lr and me you keep harping on an irrelevant statistic.

Then it should be pretty simply to explain why it's a pointless analogy. Please, enlighten those of us laboring in the darkness of ignorance....

:rolleyes:

[fj1200]

Then it should be pretty simply to explain why it's a pointless analogy. Please, enlighten those of us laboring in the darkness of ignorance....

:rolleyes:

Be happy to:


Besides, your analogy speaks to BO's political message which is not really of issue when we get right down to it.

Actually your analogy is quite helpful. The chancellor/BO claims to effect change, a al reading scores/oil production, when in reality he has no control over the issue, scores/prices.

[taft2012]

Be happy to:

Oh, for gawd's sake...

So if you agree that Obama and his supporters are full of shit for taking/giving him credit for increased domestic oil production, why be so obtuse about it?

Just say so.

Here's your chance, without the peripheral bullshit trappings;

a. Yes, I agree they're full of shit.
b. No, I disagree. They're right.

As for me, I pick option "C".... which is; "I'll never get a straight answer."

[fj1200]

Oh, for gawd's sake...

I agree, for gawd's sake. I've never said that they were not full of it nor that they were correct. If you want to post about what BO says he's doing you'll get no argument from me.

Need I remind you that the thread is about the level of gas prices? You should try arguing what I say and not what you think I say.

EDIT:

And lest you be confused; yes, they're full of it.

[logroller]

I understand. It's willful ignorance, which there isn't much point in arguing with.

In New York City we have a Schools Chancellor, who oversees the operations of the city's 1500 public schools.

If he came out tomorrow and announced that "Reading scores of New York City school children have increased by 5% this year!", that would be great.

But what if further review determined that the 5% citywide improvement was entirely due to reading score increases among parochial school students? And even further review determined that reading score among public school students had actually gone DOWN.

Technically the Schools Chancellor would be telling the truth. Absolutely he would be taking credit for something he had nothing to do with and covering up his own failure.

That's the same tactic Obama is using with domestic oil production, and frankly your stubborn defense of it demonstrates a complete lack of independent thinking and a thorough drone mentality.
when did I ever say Obama gets any credit for raising production? gas prices? I've said he has not. Production increases because the price is high. That's my claim, and its you that ignore it, willfully.

[Robert A Whit]

when did I ever say Obama gets any credit for raising production? gas prices? I've said he has not. Production increases because the price is high. That's my claim, and its you that ignore it, willfully.

We should see some fast declines in prices due to the higher production soon then. I believe when or if Obama the dictator approves Keystone, that will be the point gasoline prices decline. What is strange is that the strict Alberta has already approved the Keystone and in the meantime Obama, supposedly smart, dicks around with the project denying people jobs. Prices would further fall were he to stop blocking other oil fields.

[red states rule]

I haven't ignored it. Production from federal land is included in us domestic oil production data, which I have shown is up. Gasoline doesn't just come from federal land production so gross domestic oil production is a better indicator than just federal lands. Why do you, among others, actively ignore that? Furthermore, why do you ignore that production and gas prices across multiple administrations all show the same trend? I've explained, offered data, charts, and reports from reputable financial sources that show the price of oil drives oil companies to produce more; why do you ignore all that? I know oil traders, producers, lease owners, resource land purveyors...probably 40 associates of mine with well over 1000 years of experience between them and they all know what drives them to produce more oil-- more profit. So unless you wish to have a conversation on the intrinsic profit advantage of federally produced oil, which I'm guessing, you do not, then do yourself a favor and don't worry about what happens on fed land.

Sure you ignored it

Just as you have ignored all the latest info coming out on Obamacre

Being a liberal and a loyal Obama foot solider (like you pal FU) that is all you have left to offer in defense of Obama's failed polciies

Libs claim to care about the "poor" and middle class yet all their polices make their lives worse and make them poorer. So I can see why you ignore facts LR

[fj1200]

Oh geez!

[logroller]

Then it should be pretty simply to explain why it's a pointless analogy. Please, enlighten those of us laboring in the darkness of ignorance....

:rolleyes:
Your analogy fails to mention a price linkage. What do those test scores have to do with how much the whole of New York pay for schools? Its never been my claim that Obama deserves credit for increased production. Its my claim that the price of oil has. You could provide $/pupil spent in public vs parochial. you could look at test scores overall, price overall, and find unique qualities (socioeconomics/demographics etc) that correlate to those test scores: You couldn't do that with fed vs state oil because oil is a commodity, not a substitute. You might as well compare apples and gold. (Not gold....en delicious)

[red states rule]

Oh geez!

Once again you called upon all your intelligence and utilized all of your debate skills to refute my vicious pack of facts FU

[red states rule]

Sure you ignored it

Just as you have ignored all the latest info coming out on Obamacre

Being a liberal and a loyal Obama foot solider (like you pal FU) that is all you have left to offer in defense of Obama's failed polciies

Libs claim to care about the "poor" and middle class yet all their polices make their lives worse and make them poorer. So I can see why you ignore facts LR

Hey LR cat got your tongue?

[taft2012]

when did I ever say Obama gets any credit for raising production? gas prices? I've said he has not. Production increases because the price is high. That's my claim, and its you that ignore it, willfully.

That's it? Well, duh. Everyone's aware of the Texas/Louisiana boom-bust of the 1970s-1980s. I made myself a small fortune investing in depressed Texas energy. But you didn't even have to be an investor to know about the boom-bust. You just had to watch "Dallas."

However, that scenario -where domestic wells are capped because it's cheaper to import crude than it is to drill it domestically- is gone forever because the world's oil demands have changed forever. That is the reason prices are up, and that is the real reason production is up in the USA.

But that's Business 101, common sense, not even worth discussing, and ultimately just a diversion from the real issue Red States raises.

Should domestic oil production be up at a level higher than it currently is? Yes. Can it be at a level higher than it currently is? Yes. Do advances in oil drilling technology allow even greater production than we had 30 years ago? Yes.

So what's standing in the way? Obama.

[red states rule]

http://lonelyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Obama-Gas.jpg

[taft2012]

Once again you called upon all your intelligence and utilized all of your debate skills to refute my vicious pack of facts FU

He's a troll deluxe, about a millimeter from being flushed into my iggy bin.

He repeatedly facepalm icons my posts, then when consistently pushed for a response he finally says "Well, I agree."

WTF? :laugh2: He's a clown.

[red states rule]

http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Skyrocketing-Gas-Prices.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.towncrierdubuque.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Skyrocketing-Gas-Prices.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^ Absolutely brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Tyr

Adding in the liberal's supposed "genius's" 57 states comment was as near to perfection as I've seen in a long time.

[logroller]

That's it? Well, duh. Everyone's aware of the Texas/Louisiana boom-bust of the 1970s-1980s. I made myself a small fortune investing in depressed Texas energy. But you didn't even have to be an investor to know about the boom-bust. You just had to watch "Dallas."

However, that scenario -where domestic wells are capped because it's cheaper to import crude than it is to drill it domestically- is gone forever because the world's oil demands have changed forever. That is the reason prices are up, and that is the real reason production is up in the USA. well, that's it, And it didn't just take place since Obama has been in office. Worldwide demand has been increasing for a long time. Bush was friendly to oil drilling, demand increased, production increased, and so did price. Yet oil production has been increased since Obama took office.


But that's Business 101, common sense, not even worth discussing, and ultimately just a diversion from the real issue Red States raises.
Which is? Obama bad. Got it. I don't see its relevance to oil commodities and domestic production.


Should domestic oil production be up at a level higher than it currently is? Yes.

Who decides how much oil is produced? Not Obama. the oil companies do, based on market prices and costs of production, the production is set to maximize profit. Business 101. Oil companies learned something in the 70's/ 80's about pumping so much oil that it only served to lower prices and profits. Another thing is the global peak of oil production has likely seen its apex; prices will only go up now. Worldwide. As these prices increase more and more expensive drilling techniques will be pursued. Its just a question of the costs. Do you know how much it costs to produce 1/2 Bbls of oil from traditional sources? Fracking? Oil sands? Oil shale? Offshore?


Can it be at a level higher than it currently is? Yes.
So why don't oil companies pump even more? I live in oil country and, while production is high, its not anywhere near 100% of what they could pump. Business 101.


Do advances in oil drilling technology allow even greater production than we had 30 years ago? Yes.
those advances are more costly; so when prices go up, they become economically feasible. Prices go down, not feasible. It seems you are ignoring business 101. Price drives oil production, not the other way around. The days where oil production lowered prices are long gone. Ask JR Ewing. Ask bush.


So what's standing in the way? Obama.
business 101. Btw, are oil imports higher or lower now than 30 years ago? 15? 10? Maybe try basing your opinions in facts, not other people's opinions and 1980's fictional dramas.

[red states rule]

LR why not man up and admit the obvious?

Obama's energy polices are doing for the price of gas what Obamacare is doing for the cost health insurance

[logroller]

Sure you ignored it

Just as you have ignored all the latest info coming out on Obamacre

Being a liberal and a loyal Obama foot solider (like you pal FU) that is all you have left to offer in defense of Obama's failed polciies

Libs claim to care about the "poor" and middle class yet all their polices make their lives worse and make them poorer. So I can see why you ignore facts LR
I'm not sure what I was to respond to here. Why do you dodge the question as to whether you have ever used government subsidized healthcare? Or why oil prices increased during Bush's tenure? You offer no substance rsr. I don't really see a point in exchanging blows; its beneath me. You however, are so desperate that name calling is all you have, because the facts don't support your opinions, and your opinions don't address the core issues. Mine do. Maybe they aren't the best ideas, and ill debate that, but i do address the core issues presented, and that's why my ideas gain traction politically and your's get relegated to the funny pages.

[red states rule]

I'm not sure what I was to respond to here. Why do you dodge the question as to whether you have ever used government subsidized healthcare? Or why oil prices increased during Bush's tenure? You offer no substance rsr. I don't really see a point in exchanging blows; its beneath me. You however, are so desperate that name calling is all you have, because the facts don't support your opinions, and your opinions don't address the core issues. Mine do. Maybe they aren't the best ideas, and ill debate that, but i do address the core issues presented, and that's why my ideas gain traction politically and your's get relegated to the funny pages.

Trust me LR there is nothing beneath you. I have worked my entire life and have not feed off the taxpayers - not that has anything to do with this thread. Your loyalty to Obama is surprising. I never saw you a far left moon bat. But I was wrong for thinking that. The only thing your "points" support is your blind allegiance to Obama and your distain for those who refuse to obey and conform.

[logroller]

Trust me LR there is nothing beneath you. I have worked my entire life and have not feed off the taxpayers - not that has anything to do with this thread. Your loyalty to Obama is surprising. I never saw you a far left moon bat. But I was wrong for thinking that. The only thing your "points" support is your blind allegiance to Obama and your distain for those who refuse to obey and conform.
Trust is earned. You have not earned mine. And so far as your thinking being wrong, generally, that seems to be the case. Hence why I don't trust you. Nor does the general populus share your way of thinking, because its logically fallacious and ill-construed.
You're the only one that brings up Obama and his policies rsr. Not I. Specifically in this thread, I've said that obama's policies don't explain the increased production. How you construe that to be supportive of Obama is the only moon bat presentation here. the facts don support your opinion, nor can you otherwise explain an upwards price swing in crude oil for well over a decade, so you attack me personally. Its your entire MO and its chickenshit. Why don't you man up answer the question as to why gas prices have increased for so long; long before Obama?

[logroller]

While you conveniently overlook his deliberate actions taken to not get us independent of foreign oil...
Obama energy policy in regards to foreign oil being bought is to make us more dependent...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/5379/high-gas-prices-are-president-obama-s-fault (http://www.policymic.com/articles/5379/high-gas-prices-are-president-obama-s-fault)

e.
Oil imports are continuing on a downward trend. This is what I've been trying to explain. People are basing their conclusions on assumptions of facts that aren't so. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTNTUS2&f=A
as for the public lands drilling and obama's reduction in that sector, I thought you all were against government subsidies and programs? What exactly are public resources and by does exploiting them make more sense than any other? should we clear cut forests to plant grain? lease interstate roads to private enterprises that charge tolls? I guarantee that private companies would do so more efficiently from an economic perspective, but i bekieve you would find a major decrease in the number of roads as many roads just dont justify their existance from an economic perspective. If you truly want a market-based solution, you'd find some things (called externalities) that the market just won't consider. Pollution is one such externality. What's your solution to pollution? Dilution? What happens when you're downstream of said diluted pollution and it has effects on you and your family? You could sue; but who, when the sources of pollution are innumerable? The oil companies? They aren't anywhere near your house. Yet if you have benzene in your water supply, it got there somehow? Or if your air quality is crap;causing asthma to your young children and preventing them from enjoying a simple game if catch outside with you...what do you do? Does drilling and lower gas prices make up for that somehow? I don't man to b crass, but fuck that. I don't want to live in a nation like china that has unbridled growth at the expense of health. I'm not against oil, but it doesn't need to be our primary concern either. We need a balance, and I'm happy to hash out that balance; but saying gas is too expensive and ignoring the deleterious effects of petroleum consumption is something I will not accept. It has hurt my family, and I'll be damned if I don't take stand up for them. I'm sure you can understand that.

[logroller]

Hey LR cat got your tongue?
Not cat-related. I was getting my daughter a breathing treatment for her asthma caused by poor air quality. Happens about ten times a year betwen my daughter and son. The doctor charges me $45 and my private insurance $100 each time; $450 out of pocket, $1000 billable; but forgoing that tax increase on that 10 mile drive netted me 40 cents savings, and over the whole year's 7500 miles I drive, a whopping $25. What a deal, huh? This is the problem that too many look past because, hey, not their problem. Well it is my problem, whether or not they intended to, others actions contribute to it. I guess I'm a big bad liberal for wanting to improve my children's health. I just thought it was my responsibility as a parent and not political at all; may him going about it all wrong, but its the best I can do. go ahead and malign me some more; but it will not change my views on how to bring about a better future for my family. To each to their own you may say...but I'm guessing thats just because I get more popular support than you do.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Not cat-related. I was getting my daughter a breathing treatment for her asthma caused by poor air quality. Happens about ten times a year betwen my daughter and son. The doctor charges me $45 and my private insurance $100 each time; $450 out of pocket, $1000 billable; but forgoing that tax increase on that 10 mile drive netted me 40 cents savings, and over the whole year's 7500 miles I drive, a whopping $25. What a deal, huh? This is the problem that too many look past because, hey, not their problem. Well it is my problem, whether or not they intended to, others actions contribute to it. I guess I'm a big bad liberal for wanting to improve my children's health. I just thought it was my responsibility as a parent and not political at all; may him going about it all wrong, but its the best I can do. go ahead and malign me some more; but it will not change my views on how to bring about a better future for my family. To each to their own you may say...but I'm guessing thats just because I get more popular support than you do.

Note to whomever it may concern. If a man judges his words presented for others to consider on how much popular support they will garner for him then he has abandoned his personal principles. For nobody's personal principles are in perfect agreement with all the popular whims and fancies of the very fickle public at any given time. I avoid doing that at any and all costs.. Think about it..... Just sayin'--Tyr

[logroller]

Note to whomever it may concern. If a man judges his words presented for others to consider on how much popular support they will garner for him then he has abandoned his personal principles. For nobody's personal principles are in perfect agreement with all the popular whims and fancies of the very fickle public at any given time. I avoid doing that at any and all costs.. Think about it..... Just sayin'--Tyr
Note to whom it may concern. When someone takes the time to share a personal story, maybe don't spit in their face...figuratively speaking..just saying this to tyr really.! Show some class.

[fj1200]

Once again you called upon all your intelligence and utilized all of your debate skills to refute my vicious pack of facts FU

Facts and you are not too well acquainted... except the ones you cherry pick that is.

[fj1200]

He's a troll deluxe, about a millimeter from being flushed into my iggy bin.

He repeatedly facepalm icons my posts, then when consistently pushed for a response he finally says "Well, I agree."

WTF? :laugh2: He's a clown.

I do typically facepalm when people start arguing when having no clue what they're arguing about. Have you figured out my point yet?

[taft2012]

I do typically facepalm when people start arguing when having no clue what they're arguing about. Have you figured out my point yet?


Yeah, it's right under your hat.

[aboutime]

Yeah, it's right under your hat.


And most of us know....YOUR POINT isn't very sharp. Even if you wore a hat to hide the point, fj.

[red states rule]

Not cat-related. I was getting my daughter a breathing treatment for her asthma caused by poor air quality. Happens about ten times a year betwen my daughter and son. The doctor charges me $45 and my private insurance $100 each time; $450 out of pocket, $1000 billable; but forgoing that tax increase on that 10 mile drive netted me 40 cents savings, and over the whole year's 7500 miles I drive, a whopping $25. What a deal, huh? This is the problem that too many look past because, hey, not their problem. Well it is my problem, whether or not they intended to, others actions contribute to it. I guess I'm a big bad liberal for wanting to improve my children's health. I just thought it was my responsibility as a parent and not political at all; may him going about it all wrong, but its the best I can do. go ahead and malign me some more; but it will not change my views on how to bring about a better future for my family. To each to their own you may say...but I'm guessing thats just because I get more popular support than you do.

I do hope your kids are feeling better

However I am rather surprised Obamacare has not relieved you of your financial cost associated with getting them treatment. After all your boy Obama said you save money with Obamacare. Of course he also said he would cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term

Plus when those exchanges open (whenever that will happen) you may not have to drive so far for treatment - you may be able to find treatment closer to home. Of course the cost of those exchanges has doubled - and keep the books open

Of course I am assuming you will be able to afford gas to put in your car so you can get your kids to the Doctor. Obama is now demanding a trillion dollars in more taxes in his budget on top of the trillion plus ha has already gotten

And then you have to consider if there will be enough Doctors in your area that will see your kids and accept Obamacare. Many are closing up their private practice thanks to Obamacare

Oh well, Obama will "fix" everything just as he promised and we just need to be patient

and pay and pay and pay

[logroller]

I do hope your kids are feeling better

However I am rather surprised Obamacare has not relieved you of your financial cost associated with getting them treatment. After all your boy Obama said you save money with Obamacare. Of course he also said he would cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term

Plus when those exchanges open (whenever that will happen) you may not have to drive so far for treatment - you may be able to find treatment closer to home. Of course the cost of those exchanges has doubled - and keep the books open

Of course I am assuming you will be able to afford gas to put in your car so you can get your kids to the Doctor. Obama is now demanding a trillion dollars in more taxes in his budget on top of the trillion plus ha has already gotten

And then you have to consider if there will be enough Doctors in your area that will see your kids and accept Obamacare. Many are closing up their private practice thanks to Obamacare

Oh well, Obama will "fix" everything just as he promised and we just need to be patient

and pay and pay and pay

My wife gets insurance through her employer, I haven't bought insurance on the market since 2004-2006. I did have open enrollment before that though, gemcare iirc. But the price of insurance has been increasing for as long as I can remember. I remember in 1999 my wife had Kaiser and paid $10 for an entire pregnancy. No joke, $10 for all the prenatal care, cesarian section, the whole nine. Then in 2002 with gem care, paid $100 for a pregnancy. Then $2009, blue cross pregnancy $400. Son was hospitalized too, thats another $400. Broke my wrist last year, $400. Maybe it'll change, but hasn't yet and quite frankly I just expect it to anymore. I've just grown to accept that medical care is getting more and more expensive. Has been for awhile. Just like gas prices.

I don't drive much though. 7500 miles/ year maybe. I think it goes back to when I drove professionally: 500,000 miles in four years kinda burned me out.

But bad air where I live is a doozy. I think we've been the worst in the nation a few times. But in a central hub for transport, geographically speaking, and then with mountains on three sides, it just traps pollution from the entire valley for weeks until the high pressure system subsides. Gets so bad they cancel recesses at my kids' schools, after-school sports too. Ever seen a kid turn blue from an asthma attack? Thankfully its been a while for me, and I pray I never do again. But I grew up here and it never was as bad until the housing boom in the late 90's. Funny too, it used to be we'd get fog, but not so much anymore. Maybe just a coincidence, but I wonder if the shifting to water-wise irrigation away from flood irrigation has decreased the relative humidity, and maybe that could have an effect on air quality. Cars do, of course; as do diesel trucks, especially along transportation corridors; agriculture, industry but they're highly regulated, they've reduced their pollutants by 90% since 1990. Regardless, it goes up and sits there for weeks. I probably should move, but my whole family's here, wife's too. I just wish there was a way to clean up the air, that's all. I know cars muck it up, a lot, and I believe that if people could drive less, they'd save money and make the air cleaner.

[fj1200]

Yeah, it's right under your hat.

A simple "no" would have sufficed. But go ahead and create another strawman.


And most of us know....YOUR POINT isn't very sharp. Even if you wore a hat to hide the point, fj.

:dunno:

http://allthingsd.com/files/2011/11/double_facepalm.png

[red states rule]

My wife gets insurance through her employer, I haven't bought insurance on the market since 2004-2006. I did have open enrollment before that though, gemcare iirc. But the price of insurance has been increasing for as long as I can remember. I remember in 1999 my wife had Kaiser and paid $10 for an entire pregnancy. No joke, $10 for all the prenatal care, cesarian section, the whole nine. Then in 2002 with gem care, paid $100 for a pregnancy. Then $2009, blue cross pregnancy $400. Son was hospitalized too, thats another $400. Broke my wrist last year, $400. Maybe it'll change, but hasn't yet and quite frankly I just expect it to anymore. I've just grown to accept that medical care is getting more and more expensive. Has been for awhile. Just like gas prices.

I don't drive much though. 7500 miles/ year maybe. I think it goes back to when I drove professionally: 500,000 miles in four years kinda burned me out.

But bad air where I live is a doozy. I think we've been the worst in the nation a few times. But in a central hub for transport, geographically speaking, and then with mountains on three sides, it just traps pollution from the entire valley for weeks until the high pressure system subsides. Gets so bad they cancel recesses at my kids' schools, after-school sports too. Ever seen a kid turn blue from an asthma attack? Thankfully its been a while for me, and I pray I never do again. But I grew up here and it never was as bad until the housing boom in the late 90's. Funny too, it used to be we'd get fog, but not so much anymore. Maybe just a coincidence, but I wonder if the shifting to water-wise irrigation away from flood irrigation has decreased the relative humidity, and maybe that could have an effect on air quality. Cars do, of course; as do diesel trucks, especially along transportation corridors; agriculture, industry but they're highly regulated, they've reduced their pollutants by 90% since 1990. Regardless, it goes up and sits there for weeks. I probably should move, but my whole family's here, wife's too. I just wish there was a way to clean up the air, that's all. I know cars muck it up, a lot, and I believe that if people could drive less, they'd save money and make the air cleaner.

Again LR I wish only the best for your kids

I hope your wife is able to retain her health coverage. More and more employers are cutting the benefit, increasing the cost, or cutting the number of employees due to the rising cost

Why would "accept" the cost is high after your guy rammed through Obamacare and "promised" you how much better your life would be once it was passed?