Talking about school vouchers

[gabosaurus]

I had an interesting discussion about school vouchers today with a guy who is an adviser to the Texas Association for Private Schools.
Apparently school vouchers are a big topic in Texas. Some legislators want kids to be able to use public funding to attend private schools if they feel the public schools in their area are deficient.
Surprisingly, many private schools are not happy with this. Many Texas private schools are either full or they have stringent admission requirements. They don't want the state dictating who can attend their schools.
This is a bit different than many California private schools, where most anyone can get in if you have the grades and the money.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I had an interesting discussion about school vouchers today with a guy who is an adviser to the Texas Association for Private Schools.
Apparently school vouchers are a big topic in Texas. Some legislators want kids to be able to use public funding to attend private schools if they feel the public schools in their area are deficient.
Surprisingly, many private schools are not happy with this. Many Texas private schools are either full or they have stringent admission requirements. They don't want the state dictating who can attend their schools.
This is a bit different than many California private schools, where most anyone can get in if you have the grades and the money.

Point 1: This is a good thing. I fully support it.

Point 2: The fact that someone is 'allowed' to use a voucher to attend a private school, would NOT automatically entitle them to attend a particular school. The individual schools admissions policies would not be affected, and they could still maintain whatever entry requirements they already have. It would simply mean that school attendance fees could be paid by using the voucher, once said student was accepted.

[avatar4321]

I would also point out that the fact that more money would be available for private schools dictates that there will be a market to create more private schools. Some, no doubt, to specifically accept those vouchers.

[Robert A Whit]

I had an interesting discussion about school vouchers today with a guy who is an adviser to the Texas Association for Private Schools.
Apparently school vouchers are a big topic in Texas. Some legislators want kids to be able to use public funding to attend private schools if they feel the public schools in their area are deficient.
Surprisingly, many private schools are not happy with this. Many Texas private schools are either full or they have stringent admission requirements. They don't want the state dictating who can attend their schools.
This is a bit different than many California private schools, where most anyone can get in if you have the grades and the money.

If one sees this as public funding not of schools, but funding for education, there is no reason why the government gets to force parents to use schools they despise using.

Let's pretend public education is the worlds best, private schools could not attract students or their parents.

The premier universities in America are the private universities though a few of the public universities do quite well. But those are also funded by private parties with some government funds also included.

What private schools do for the kids in K-12 is actually improve public schools. But even so, and in general, public schools are not doing a good job. We know this by the world standards for schools and this country spends far to much for poor performance.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I would also point out that the fact that more money would be available for private schools dictates that there will be a market to create more private schools. Some, no doubt, to specifically accept those vouchers.

As long as they are good schools, this too is a good thing.

[Robert A Whit]

Private schools must do a very good job or the parents would shun them. The public will not pay more for a poor school than for a good school.

Seems Democrats are not for best schools, just schools they can control class content.

[gabosaurus]

I would also point out that the fact that more money would be available for private schools dictates that there will be a market to create more private schools. Some, no doubt, to specifically accept those vouchers.

I do not think that you improve education by creating more schools. You need to improve the schools you already have.
The reason many public schools are failing is that they are underfunded. The public votes on how much money they want to spend on public education.
Private schools do not have that problem. They operate off tuition and public grants.
I visited a private school in Dallas area a couple of years ago where the annual tuition is close to $20,000 per year. It is a very elite school that is quite difficult to get into.

I had the opportunity to place my daughter in a private school this year. There are some good ones in our area. She was totally against it. She wanted to attend school with the kids she knows in our neighborhood.

[tailfins]

I do not think that you improve education by creating more schools. You need to improve the schools you already have.
The reason many public schools are failing is that they are underfunded. The public votes on how much money they want to spend on public education.
Private schools do not have that problem. They operate off tuition and public grants.
I visited a private school in Dallas area a couple of years ago where the annual tuition is close to $20,000 per year. It is a very elite school that is quite difficult to get into.

I had the opportunity to place my daughter in a private school this year. There are some good ones in our area. She was totally against it. She wanted to attend school with the kids she knows in our neighborhood.


So how much per student do you consider adequate funding?

[fj1200]

Apparently school vouchers are a big topic in Texas.


I do not think that you improve education by creating more schools. You need to improve the schools you already have.

What is your opinion of monopolies?

[fj1200]

So how much per student do you consider adequate funding?

I'm going to guess, more, always more.

[Robert A Whit]

I do not think that you improve education by creating more schools. You need to improve the schools you already have.
The reason many public schools are failing is that they are underfunded. The public votes on how much money they want to spend on public education.
Private schools do not have that problem. They operate off tuition and public grants.
I visited a private school in Dallas area a couple of years ago where the annual tuition is close to $20,000 per year. It is a very elite school that is quite difficult to get into.

I had the opportunity to place my daughter in a private school this year. There are some good ones in our area. She was totally against it. She wanted to attend school with the kids she knows in our neighborhood.

As long as I have been alive and aware of schools, the public has tried over and over to improve the government schools. But when the government is in charge of anything, it is virtually impossible to improve things. Witness the roughly 68 years of my school life and after, parents have not managed to improve schools to the point it is nation wide. We keep paying taxes for promises but promises are not kept. When we in CA boosted public funding, even that failed to fix our problems.

As to that school in Dallas, we all know that the more money you have for anything, the easier it is to pay for those elite schools. Parents won't pour cash into private schools that perform poorly.

Having your child in charge of her own education at her young age makes no sense to me. Kids make new friends faster than chickens multiply.

Ask me. I attended some 8 schools by the time I was in high school where at least my high school offered a very wide range of programs. But I believe that for the most part, republicans managed those public schools way back when I was still in school. Bear in mind that once, CA was a strong backer of republicans.

[fj1200]

Speaking of vouchers...

Indiana school vouchers upheld in ruling that could set precedent (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/us/indiana-school-vouchers)

(CNN) -- In a ruling that could reverberate nationwide, the Indiana Supreme Court upheld the state's voucher program, which gives poor and middle class families public funds to help pay for private school tuition, including religious schools.Indiana has the broadest school voucher program available to a range of incomes, critics say, and could set a precedent as other states seek ways to expand such programs.
Supporters say it gives families without financial means more options on where to educate their children.
However, opponents of the Indiana program had sued to block it, describing it as unconstitutional and saying it takes money from public schools.
Teresa Meredith, the vice president of the Indiana State Teachers Association and one of the plaintiffs, said she was "very disappointed in the ruling."
Unanimous rulingAs many as 9,000 students statewide are part of the voucher program and more than 80% use the funds to go to religious schools, according to Meredith.
But in its unanimous 5-0 ruling, the Supreme Court said that was not an issue.
It said it did not matter that funds had been directed to religious schools as long as the state was not directly funding the education. The tuition, the court said, was being funded by the parents who chose to pay it with their vouchers.
"Whether the Indiana program is wise educational or public policy is not a consideration," Chief Justice Brent Dickson wrote. The public funds "do not directly benefit religious schools but rather directly benefit lower-income families with school children."


Cool.

[gabosaurus]

My sister and I both attended under performing public schools and did very well. Education is what you make of it.
I am quite satisfied with the level of public schools in our area. School is not just about learning. Kids need to learn interacting with their peers. You can do it a letter better if you are comfortable with your surroundings.

It is a known fact that public schools in property rich areas are better because they have a higher tax base. Which means more funding.
Most inner city schools have little to no property tax base. Which means they have less funding.
If the government could provide equal funding for every school district, there would be fewer under performing schools.

[fj1200]

If the government could provide equal funding for every school district, there would be fewer under performing schools.

Unlikely. How do you feel about monopolies?

[Robert A Whit]

My sister and I both attended under performing public schools and did very well. Education is what you make of it.
I am quite satisfied with the level of public schools in our area. School is not just about learning. Kids need to learn interacting with their peers. You can do it a letter better if you are comfortable with your surroundings.

It is a known fact that public schools in property rich areas are better because they have a higher tax base. Which means more funding.
Most inner city schools have little to no property tax base. Which means they have less funding.
If the government could provide equal funding for every school district, there would be fewer under performing schools.
I attended many grade schools as a pup and found it depended what school you attended if you got a half way decent education. I suspect in private schools, the quality of students is much better than in public schools, realizing there are exceptions to this. San Diego to me seems to me to not have the tax base of say Palm Springs or Los Gatos or Marin County well to the north of San Diego but the tax base is the wrong way to educate children who deserve a lot more equal treatment. CA is one state where it really does matter where one lives for some schools have kids that don't care and parents who also don't care.

The more wealthy parents often are wealthy because of the high value they place on educaton where they also went to private universities. Stanford for instance is very high quality and the poor need not apply for the most part.

I am blessed with two very intelligent daughters and in talking to my daughter yesterday who lives in Hawaii, she told me when I asked her to resume her education, that even if she got grants and other things, she would have so many student loans she worries she would not get a job to be able to pay back the loans. The oldest of the two got her degree when degrees were more reasonably priced to obtain. This brilliant daughter in Hawaii works in the restaurant of a very upper scale hotel so she makes plenty of money at work. And she told me her husband is now in Louisiana being educated to work on ships that travel to the various oil rigs to supply them and she expects him to start out at about $60,000 per year. At his age, not too bad.

[avatar4321]

I do not think that you improve education by creating more schools. You need to improve the schools you already have.
The reason many public schools are failing is that they are underfunded. The public votes on how much money they want to spend on public education.
Private schools do not have that problem. They operate off tuition and public grants.
I visited a private school in Dallas area a couple of years ago where the annual tuition is close to $20,000 per year. It is a very elite school that is quite difficult to get into.

I had the opportunity to place my daughter in a private school this year. There are some good ones in our area. She was totally against it. She wanted to attend school with the kids she knows in our neighborhood.

Why do you need to improve the ones you already have? Why not just do away with it and create a brand new one?

[fj1200]

If the government could provide equal funding for every school district, there would be fewer under performing schools.


Unlikely. How do you feel about monopolies?

bump

[Robert A Whit]

My sister and I both attended under performing public schools and did very well. Education is what you make of it.
I am quite satisfied with the level of public schools in our area. School is not just about learning. Kids need to learn interacting with their peers. You can do it a letter better if you are comfortable with your surroundings.

It is a known fact that public schools in property rich areas are better because they have a higher tax base. Which means more funding.
Most inner city schools have little to no property tax base. Which means they have less funding.
If the government could provide equal funding for every school district, there would be fewer under performing schools.

A real expert on this topic, Michelle Rhee, also a Democrat says this approach you have is entirely wrong. You can locate her on CSPAN Book TV.org.

She gave as her proof that despite the DC area having the most spent per pupil, that students ranked in the bottom of the barrel as to achievements. Actually the people who benefit from more funding are not the teachers so much as those above them.

She was well known to oppose vouchers but says today she does in some areas that are in areas where without them, kids are sucked into that black hole of hell known as classes full of students who just don't care. She supports vouchers in DC to be specific.

I call schools that sucking sound teachers who can not be fired are collecting their checks.

Michelle spoke of a school in CA that due to unions and tenure, a teacher that violated children was not able to be fired. And she tried to get the law changed and so did a politician and the committee on education killed the law designed to deal with child molesters.

In DC, she worked hard to pay good teachers more money but the union refused to allow it to move forward and killed her idea.