Another discussion w/ friend

[jimnyc]

I walked in last night and he was laughing while watching something on his telephone. He said it was Americans who have converted to Islam. No big deal to me, which is what I told him, and further stated that Muslims leave Islam as well, which he denied. I pointed out a few Islamic Scholars who converted to Christianity and he said they were not true Muslims. He refused to tell me why they weren't, and said the page I got this from was making it up.

No links from me, I'll let anyone interested here do their homework, as I have.

Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy - He was the Dean of Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt
Dr Mustafa - a Muslim cleric from Al Azhar

Apparently Al Azhar is a pretty well known Islamic school in Egypt. I honestly never heard of it. But how can 2 men, a dean and a cleric, at supposedly one of the best Islamic schools in existence - not be true Muslims? Or WERE they true, until they converted to Christianity?

And both men now live in fear of their lives.

So my friend had me watch a few clips on Youtube of the converters to Islam. I never doubted it to begin with and watched with an open mind. It wasn't until I offered similar that he got testy.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I walked in last night and he was laughing while watching something on his telephone. He said it was Americans who have converted to Islam. No big deal to me, which is what I told him, and further stated that Muslims leave Islam as well, which he denied. I pointed out a few Islamic Scholars who converted to Christianity and he said they were not true Muslims. He refused to tell me why they weren't, and said the page I got this from was making it up.

No links from me, I'll let anyone interested here do their homework, as I have.

Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy - He was the Dean of Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt
Dr Mustafa - a Muslim cleric from Al Azhar

Apparently Al Azhar is a pretty well known Islamic school in Egypt. I honestly never heard of it. But how can 2 men, a dean and a cleric, at supposedly one of the best Islamic schools in existence - not be true Muslims? Or WERE they true, until they converted to Christianity?

And both men now live in fear of their lives.

So my friend had me watch a few clips on Youtube of the converters to Islam. I never doubted it to begin with and watched with an open mind. It wasn't until I offered similar that he got testy.

Your friend sounds exactly like our Jahil.

[jimnyc]

In fairness, Catholics have left the faith and converted to Islam as well, I acknowledge this. And to be honest, it might sadden me a tad inside, but I wouldn't be angry over it, nor would I deny it. Stuff like that is going to happen. We are all different and all choose different paths for different reasons.

But these men have large footprints and were well known, and have a history that is tough to deny. How does someone make it to be Dean of such a great Islamic school, or become a cleric, unless they are true Muslims?

[Robert A Whit]

I walked in last night and he was laughing while watching something on his telephone. He said it was Americans who have converted to Islam. No big deal to me, which is what I told him, and further stated that Muslims leave Islam as well, which he denied. I pointed out a few Islamic Scholars who converted to Christianity and he said they were not true Muslims. He refused to tell me why they weren't, and said the page I got this from was making it up.

No links from me, I'll let anyone interested here do their homework, as I have.

Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy - He was the Dean of Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt
Dr Mustafa - a Muslim cleric from Al Azhar

Apparently Al Azhar is a pretty well known Islamic school in Egypt. I honestly never heard of it. But how can 2 men, a dean and a cleric, at supposedly one of the best Islamic schools in existence - not be true Muslims? Or WERE they true, until they converted to Christianity?



And both men now live in fear of their lives.

So my friend had me watch a few clips on Youtube of the converters to Islam. I never doubted it to begin with and watched with an open mind. It wasn't until I offered similar that he got testy.

I don't normally toss around names of real people I actually know but since I too have discussions with Muslims and have had them since around 1986, indeed Muslims have converted away from Islam and are practicing Christians.

An example is Sia Norouzy who was born in Iran, got a college degree there and due to his health tried out Germany to solve his health problem but gained entry to the USA where he got treatment. (I am not spelling his last name just right perhaps)

Sia told me over the years I knew the man how he used to be in Iran. How his life as a Muslim was and so forth. He shocked me one day when he informed me he was no longer a Muslim but is now a Catholic. So, if I know one and Jim can name some, clearly they do convert. Sia soured on Iran when they would not lift a finger to help him solve his heart problem and in Germany he got no help at all either. I met him around 1992 and lost track of him about 5-6 years ago.

[stevecanuck]

I......... further stated that Muslims leave Islam as well, which he denied.

It would be interesting to know what other indisputable facts your friend would deny. Does he deny that the Islamic empire formed in the 7th and 8th centuries was acquired by force as Jafar does?

[jimnyc]

It would be interesting to know what other indisputable facts your friend would deny. Does he deny that the Islamic empire formed in the 7th and 8th centuries was acquired by force as Jafar does?

All of my Muslim friends get VERY heated on any type of Israel/Palestine discussion, and they all automatically assume every American sides with Israel on every single issue. I know the Afghan and Iraq wars aren't favorable, even here in the States, but there are still facts that don't make either country look very favorable. Everything and anything was made up, planted or photoshopped by the CIA. And last but certainly not least, all but one of them swear that 9/11 is an inside job.

We all have fights about politics and religion, and then we are friends again, and then we fight again... You would think by now we would know better than to engage in certain conversations!

[Abbey Marie]

I walked in last night and he was laughing while watching something on his telephone. He said it was Americans who have converted to Islam. No big deal to me, which is what I told him, and further stated that Muslims leave Islam as well, which he denied. I pointed out a few Islamic Scholars who converted to Christianity and he said they were not true Muslims. He refused to tell me why they weren't, and said the page I got this from was making it up.

No links from me, I'll let anyone interested here do their homework, as I have.

Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy - He was the Dean of Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt
Dr Mustafa - a Muslim cleric from Al Azhar

Apparently Al Azhar is a pretty well known Islamic school in Egypt. I honestly never heard of it. But how can 2 men, a dean and a cleric, at supposedly one of the best Islamic schools in existence - not be true Muslims? Or WERE they true, until they converted to Christianity?

And both men now live in fear of their lives.

So my friend had me watch a few clips on Youtube of the converters to Islam. I never doubted it to begin with and watched with an open mind. It wasn't until I offered similar that he got testy.

Then the latter were not true Christians/Buddhists/Whatevers. By your friend's, logic, of course. :rolleyes:

[jimnyc]

Then the latter were not true Christians/Buddhists/Whatevers. By your friend's, logic, of course. :rolleyes:

Yeppers, but he's a stubborn bastard just like me. When I brought up indisputable proof of who they were, where they were educated, when they converted and who they are now... he pushed away my tablet and wouldn't even entertain the opposite of what he was saying. What it came down to, was he was making a point of Christians who converted to Islam, as if it were some sort of victory for him. But when I upped him to a cleric and Dean, he got frustrated. But yep, both guys above are examples of men who went to a theological school for Islam, know more about it than the average guy, and converted to Christianity.

Honestly though, the conversions really don't mean anything, just as I was pointing out to my friend that finding a number of Christians who converted doesn't mean anything. But it's odd how the perceptions of the information being shared was so in contrast with one another.

[Abbey Marie]

Yeppers, but he's a stubborn bastard just like me. When I brought up indisputable proof of who they were, where they were educated, when they converted and who they are now... he pushed away my tablet and wouldn't even entertain the opposite of what he was saying. What it came down to, was he was making a point of Christians who converted to Islam, as if it were some sort of victory for him. But when I upped him to a cleric and Dean, he got frustrated. But yep, both guys above are examples of men who went to a theological school for Islam, know more about it than the average guy, and converted to Christianity.

Honestly though, the conversions really don't mean anything, just as I was pointing out to my friend that finding a number of Christians who converted doesn't mean anything. But it's odd how the perceptions of the information being shared was so in contrast with one another.

As diplomatically as I can put it, I will call it "intentionally obtuse".