Money; Inflation and debt

[Robert A Whit]

We know the national debt to the penny but those who understand economics understand that when the money supply inflates rapidly, it means your money lost value along with you face steep inflation. Remember that when Reagan showed up, he fought a very high inflation. If the rumor is true that Bernanke may step down, keep this in mind if he does.

Anyway, here are the Feds tables.


2011-Mar. 1890.0 8899.4 1908.5 8966.1 Apr. 1902.1 8947.6 1917.0 9021.1 May 1940.2 8999.7 1933.2 8990.8 June 1951.9 9080.1 1953.2 9079.2 July 1998.3 9266.3 1993.5 9231.5 Aug. 2112.0 9489.6 2100.8 9425.8 Sep. 2123.2 9519.4 2098.1 9464.0 Oct. 2141.8 9549.0 2127.1 9513.3 Nov. 2159.5 9601.2 2163.3 9595.1 Dec. 2160.4 9637.1 2206.9 9690.0 2012-Jan. 2200.1 9710.6 2206.5 9721.7 Feb. 2215.0 9745.9 2191.9 9746.8 Mar. 2221.9 9782.1 2243.5 9862.6 Apr. 2250.8 9825.5 2265.9 9907.1 May 2260.7 9867.5 2245.6 9841.0 June 2265.4 9918.6 2263.4 9918.8 July 2310.9 10010.0 2303.8 9955.9 Aug. 2339.1 10082.5 2325.7 10018.4 Sep. 2373.8 10158.9 2349.9 10115.3 Oct. 2419.5 10242.8 2406.8 10193.5 Nov. 2403.5 10293.5 2405.5 10289.7 Dec. 2440.1 10402.3 2497.8 10475.6 2013-Jan. 2459.6 10439.4 2469.4 10444.6 Feb. p 2472.0 10412.6 2443.8 </pre>

[logroller]

I understand inflation numbers and that looked like gibberish.
Here's a chart link
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Annual_Inflation/annual_inflation_chart.htm

[fj1200]

Anyway, here are the Feds tables.

:confused: M1, Balance Sheet...?

[Robert A Whit]

I understand inflation numbers and that looked like gibberish.
Here's a chart link
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Annual_Inflation/annual_inflation_chart.htm
I have no idea why the Obama government refuses to publish material that can easily be copied.

I copied the chart and when posted, it was a terrible presentation.

See chart

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

[Robert A Whit]

:confused: M1, Balance Sheet...?

No, that came from a FED site and shows the money supply including M-2 and i think it has M-3.

The Fed Reserve has pumped so much money into the money supply that is the signal inflation is around the corner and i don't mean 3 percent inflation.

You may recall from the book you recommended I read how that worked after WWI.

This link takes you to the chart.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

[Robert A Whit]

I understand inflation numbers and that looked like gibberish.
Here's a chart link
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Annual_Inflation/annual_inflation_chart.htm

That is not the chart.

This is the chart.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

[logroller]

That is not the chart.

This is the chart.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

That's a table, not a chart. If you notice at the top of the link it has a selectable formats...this is screen reader format
Table 1 - Money Stock Measures
Billions of dollars
<tbody>
Date

Seasonally adjusted

Not seasonally adjusted



M11 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa01)

M22 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa02)

M11 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa01)

M22 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa02)



Mar 2011

1890.0

8899.4

1908.5

8966.1



Apr 2011

1902.1

8947.6

1917.0

9021.1



May 2011

1940.2

8999.7

1933.2

8990.8



Jun 2011

1951.9

9080.1

1953.2

9079.2



Jul 2011

1998.3

9266.3

1993.5

9231.5



Aug 2011

2112.0

9489.6

2100.8

9425.8



Sep 2011

2123.2

9519.4

2098.1

9464.0



Oct 2011

2141.8

9549.0

2127.1

9513.3



Nov 2011

2159.5

9601.2

2163.3

9595.1



Dec 2011

2160.4

9637.1

2206.9

9690.0










Jan 2012

2200.1

9710.6

2206.5

9721.7



Feb 2012

2215.0

9745.9

2191.9

9746.8



Mar 2012

2221.9

9782.1

2243.5

9862.6



Apr 2012

2250.8

9825.5

2265.9

9907.1



May 2012

2260.7

9867.5

2245.6

9841.0



Jun 2012

2265.4

9918.6

2263.4

9918.8



Jul 2012

2310.9

10010.0

2303.8

9955.9



Aug 2012

2339.1

10082.5

2325.7

10018.4



Sep 2012

2373.8

10158.9

2349.9

10115.3



Oct 2012

2419.5

10242.8

2406.8

10193.5



Nov 2012

2403.5

10293.5

2405.5

10289.7



Dec 2012

2440.1

10402.3

2497.8

10475.6










Jan 2013

2459.6

10439.4

2469.4

10444.6



Feb 2013 p

2472.0

10412.6

2443.8

10411.6


</tbody>

[fj1200]

You may recall from the book you recommended I read how that worked after WWI.

You'll have to be more specific, the world, and the Fed, was a lot different and less sophisticated back then.

[logroller]

I have no idea why the Obama government refuses to publish material that can easily be copied.

I copied the chart and when posted, it was a terrible presentation.



So I noticed. However, the federal reserve and its publications aren't under the control of the executive branch/ Obama. So your attribution of blame is in error.


The Federal Reserve System fulfills its public mission as an independent entity within government. It is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution.


As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the Congress of the United States. It is considered an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.


However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by the Congress, which often reviews the Federal Reserve's activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government" rather than "independent of government."

[Robert A Whit]

That's a table, not a chart. If you notice at the top of the link it has a selectable formats...this is screen reader format
Table 1 - Money Stock Measures
Billions of dollars
<tbody>
Date
Seasonally adjusted
Not seasonally adjusted


M11 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa01)
M22 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa02)
M11 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa01)
M22 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm#FNa02)


Mar 2011
1890.0
8899.4
1908.5
8966.1


Apr 2011
1902.1
8947.6
1917.0
9021.1


May 2011
1940.2
8999.7
1933.2
8990.8


Jun 2011
1951.9
9080.1
1953.2
9079.2


Jul 2011
1998.3
9266.3
1993.5
9231.5


Aug 2011
2112.0
9489.6
2100.8
9425.8


Sep 2011
2123.2
9519.4
2098.1
9464.0


Oct 2011
2141.8
9549.0
2127.1
9513.3


Nov 2011
2159.5
9601.2
2163.3
9595.1


Dec 2011
2160.4
9637.1
2206.9
9690.0









Jan 2012
2200.1
9710.6
2206.5
9721.7


Feb 2012
2215.0
9745.9
2191.9
9746.8


Mar 2012
2221.9
9782.1
2243.5
9862.6


Apr 2012
2250.8
9825.5
2265.9
9907.1


May 2012
2260.7
9867.5
2245.6
9841.0


Jun 2012
2265.4
9918.6
2263.4
9918.8


Jul 2012
2310.9
10010.0
2303.8
9955.9


Aug 2012
2339.1
10082.5
2325.7
10018.4


Sep 2012
2373.8
10158.9
2349.9
10115.3


Oct 2012
2419.5
10242.8
2406.8
10193.5


Nov 2012
2403.5
10293.5
2405.5
10289.7


Dec 2012
2440.1
10402.3
2497.8
10475.6









Jan 2013
2459.6
10439.4
2469.4
10444.6


Feb 2013 p
2472.0
10412.6
2443.8
10411.6

</tbody>


Were that the stock market, you would quickly claim that the market is increasing a lot. But since it is the money supply, I presume by your own words and argument, ince this is to dispute my argument, you would declare the money supply is correct.

This is my claim. The money supply has risen so fast, that multiplied by the enormous public debt, we are in danger.

FJ points correctly that conditions after WW I were different. Sure, the USA had plenty of GOLD and the world was short of GOLD and currently they are boosting money supply despite credit being hard to get. Is this new money helping the rich purchase stocks or where did tne money get to? My concern is that we may be on the bridge to a super crash and that we are being prodded that direction.

[logroller]

Were that the stock market, you would quickly claim that the market is increasing a lot. But since it is the money supply, I presume by your own words and argument, ince this is to dispute my argument, you would declare the money supply is correct.

This is my claim. The money supply has risen so fast, that multiplied by the enormous public debt, we are in danger.

FJ points correctly that conditions after WW I were different. Sure, the USA had plenty of GOLD and the world was short of GOLD and currently they are boosting money supply despite credit being hard to get. Is this new money helping the rich purchase stocks or where did tne money get to? My concern is that we may be on the bridge to a super crash and that we are being prodded that direction.
I think you've shown your assumptions to be suspect. Seeing as how you've failed at microeconomics, your shift to macroeconomic behavior is likewise suspect. for example, of what functional purpose is multiplying monetary supply by public debt? it would seem to me that, by engaging in such a seemingly pointless mathmatical exercise, "we are in danger" of chasing red herrings. As for big crashes, we're too big to fail! :laugh:

[Robert A Whit]

I think you've shown your assumptions to be suspect. Seeing as how you've failed at microeconomics, your shift to macroeconomic behavior is likewise suspect. for example, of what functional purpose is multiplying monetary supply by public debt? it would seem to me that, by engaging in such a seemingly pointless mathmatical exercise, "we are in danger" of chasing red herrings. As for big crashes, we're too big to fail! :laugh:

You are a tough nut to crack for sure. Not calling you a nut.

And you got my meaning all wrong. That is fine. The USA is too big to fail?

ROFLMAO

[fj1200]

Were that the stock market, you would quickly claim that the market is increasing a lot. But since it is the money supply, I presume by your own words and argument, ince this is to dispute my argument, you would declare the money supply is correct.

This is my claim. The money supply has risen so fast, that multiplied by the enormous public debt, we are in danger.

FJ points correctly that conditions after WW I were different. Sure, the USA had plenty of GOLD and the world was short of GOLD and currently they are boosting money supply despite credit being hard to get. Is this new money helping the rich purchase stocks or where did tne money get to? My concern is that we may be on the bridge to a super crash and that we are being prodded that direction.

I'd be more concerned about what's around the corner to abruptly bring about the crash; One can only guess what that would be. I'm still not picking up your WWI analogy. We did become a depository of gold due to the war which helped fuel a boom, and inflation, and the Federal Reserves insistence on deflating the price level back to pre-war levels caused a recession but how are analogizing to the present?

[Robert A Whit]

I'd be more concerned about what's around the corner to abruptly bring about the crash; One can only guess what that would be. I'm still not picking up your WWI analogy. We did become a depository of gold due to the war which helped fuel a boom, and inflation, and the Federal Reserves insistence on deflating the price level back to pre-war levels caused a recession but how are analogizing to the present?

Exactly. Well explained. I suspect NOW you get it.

[fj1200]

Exactly. Well explained. I suspect NOW you get it.

:confused: I don't expect the Fed to deflate back down to some arbitrary gold based price level, where we haven't seen inflation anyway, when things start to heat up. They have stated, or people have interpreted, that they hope to pull back money supply growth when velocity/economic growth picks up.

[Robert A Whit]

:confused: I don't expect the Fed to deflate back down to some arbitrary gold based price level, where we haven't seen inflation anyway, when things start to heat up. They have stated, or people have interpreted, that they hope to pull back money supply growth when velocity/economic growth picks up.

Even Keynes pushed the idea that inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. The problem we now have is the Feds run up debts and by kicking the consumer, pay their debts using the mechanism of inflation. As to prices, they have gone up a lot.

The Federal reserve does not do the nations budget ergo do not run up national debts. It is difficult to pull one way despite democrats yanking us the opposite direction.

[fj1200]

^I'm still not sure what you're driving at but I'm sure you're correct. :poke: