Libs Feeling Effects Of Obamacare

[red states rule]

Sometimes there is justice in the world. I do hope these libs are enjoying all that hope and change the rest of us are experiencing
Barack Obama is a former adjunct professor of constitutional law, and no group has been more solidly supportive of his liberal agenda than the professorial class. So it is a sweet irony that the latest group getting hammered by the mandates of Obamacare are … wait for it … adjunct professors.
The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323635504578213502177768898.html):
The federal health-care overhaul is prompting some colleges and universities to cut the hours of adjunct professors. [...] The Affordable Care Act requires large employers to offer a minimum level of health insurance to employees who work 30 hours a week or more starting in 2014, or face a penalty. The mandate is a particular challenge for colleges and universities, which increasingly rely on adjuncts to help keep costs down as states have scaled back funding for higher education.
A handful of schools, including Community College of Allegheny County in Pennsylvania and Youngstown State University in Ohio, have curbed the number of classes that adjuncts can teach in the current spring semester to limit the schools’ exposure to the health-insurance requirement.
The professors are understandably confused. Robert Balla, an adjunct professor of English at Stark State College, in North Canton, Ohio received a letter in which he was told that “in order to avoid penalties under the Affordable Care Act…employees with part-time or adjunct status will not be assigned more than an average of 29 hours per week.” He told the Journal that the move cut his $40,000 salary by about $2,000 and that he cannot afford health insurance.
“I think it goes against the spirit of the [health-care] law,” Mr. Balla said. “In education, we’re working for the public good, we are public employees at a public institution; we should be the first ones to uphold the law, to set the example.”
A spokeswoman for Stark State explained the realities of the market. The new rules were necessary “to maintain the fiscal stability of the college. There are a lot of penalties involved if adjuncts go over their 29 hours-per-week average. The college can be fined and the fines are substantial.”
Really? Substantial penalties? You don’t say.
You can just imagine the outraged conversations in the faculty lounge now: “We’re professors. I thought stuff like this (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/10/a-growing-trend-more-restaurants-cutting-employee-hours-in-preparation-of-obamacare/) only happened to manual laborers at Wendy’s and Taco Bell!” http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/01/confused-professors-shocked-schools-are-cutting-their-hours-to-avoid-obamacare-penalties/

[aboutime]

red states rule. We should be thanking the person, or persons who first used the very appropriate saying:



"What goes around, comes around!"

Too bad it took them this long to learn how their money, and support prior to 2008, and 2012 for Obama BACKFIRED!

[red states rule]

red states rule. We should be thanking the person, or persons who first used the very appropriate saying:



"What goes around, comes around!"

Too bad it took them this long to learn how their money, and support prior to 2008, and 2012 for Obama BACKFIRED!

and it could not happen to a nicer bunch of folks. In the case of Professor Balla he has had his hours reduced, and his income slashed. Now that he has no insurance he must go out and purchase his own coverage. If he goes to he Obama Exchange the cheapest plan for a family four is about $20,000/yr. If he does not buy a policy he will have to pay the "tax" (or is it a fee?) or deal with the IRS for not doing so. I would like to ask Professor Balla how that hope and change is doing for him and his family

[red states rule]

It is amazing that the supporters of Obamacare are now silent


http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz032213dAPR20130322124518.jpg

[logroller]

and it could not happen to a nicer bunch of folks. In the case of Professor Balla he has had his hours reduced, and his income slashed. Now that he has no insurance he must go out and purchase his own coverage. If he goes to he Obama Exchange the cheapest plan for a family four is about $20,000/yr. If he does not buy a policy he will have to pay the "tax" (or is it a fee?) or deal with the IRS for not doing so. I would like to ask Professor Balla how that hope and change is doing for him and his family

When the IRS published its final rule two weeks ago on how ObamaCare's tax penalty will work for those who turn down affordable coverage, it included a number of possible scenarios.In one, the IRS wrote, "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000" in 2016.
A short time later, near the top of the Drudge Report, a headline from conservative news site CNSNews.com blared out this shocking headline: "IRS: Cheapest ObamaCare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family."
From there, the news pretty much went viral, as that "fact" got picked up by countless media outlets and pundits, most of them on the right (here; here and here), but not all (here).
The only problem is that the $20,000 figure was an example that has no basis in fact. The IRS always uses hypothetical numerical examples in its regulations to illustrate how the rules will work in practice and this was no different.




Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/021513-644675-obamacare-cheapest-plan-wont-cost-20000.htm#ixzz2OFvqxYXQ
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but I thought only the lame stream lib media spread such untruths as fact...might there be a conservative bias at work?

[red states rule]

but I thought only the lame stream lib media spread such untruths as fact...might there be a conservative bias at work?

As I said, I hope the fools who voted for Obama are the ones who feel the most pain as Obamacare kicks in





Starting next year, the IRS will assume responsibility for telling Americans just what kind of health insurance they must buy in order to … well, breathe free air, or something. Taxpayers will have to submit proof of health-insurance coverage along with their W-2s, and that health insurance has to meet minimum guidelines, which are classified by the IRS as “bronze,” the lowest of four tiers identified for tax purposes. And the average cost of a bronze plan for a family of four? Such a family will have to fork out twenty thousand dollars (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family) in health insurance:

In a final regulation (http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf) issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.


Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.


The IRS’s assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan.
The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of $20,000 per year for a bronze plan.
If you’re thinking that a family could buy a good solid family car for that kind of cash and do better, you’d be right. Let’s assume that a family of four has a wellness check for each adult once a year, and the kids have two. If a full-scale wellness check costs $500 — and it’s probably considerably less — that’s $3,000. If little Susie breaks her leg on a jungle gym at school, add in another $1000 for emergency room treatment and ongoing follow-up. Mom may get a mammogram for another $1000. That still brings us to $5000, or only a quarter of what they’re paying for coverage every single year under the new regulations.


Of course, one or more of them may end up in the hospital, at which point the coverage costs get a little more rational. However, I just had outpatient back surgery, which cost in total less than the plan costs assumed by the IRS as a minimum (~$13,000, most of it covered by insurance, including doctors, hospital, anesthesiologist, follow-ups). Besides, until the passage of ObamaCare, a family could choose to purchase hospitalization coverage (aka “catastrophic” insurance) rather than comprehensive, and choose to treat routine maintenance and non-hospitalization costs through pre-tax health-savings accounts (HSAs). Most families would save a fortune in doing so, and the elimination of third-party payers in the system would restore real price signals, which would actually bend the cost curve downward. Families might choose comprehensive insurance anyway to guard against catastrophic risk, but before ObamaCare, they at least had the opportunity to choose a wiser path.



http://hotair.com/archives/2013/02/01/irs-cheapest-qualifying-family-health-insurance-plan-will-be-20k/

[logroller]

As I said, I hope the fools who voted for Obama are the ones who feel the most pain as Obamacare kicks in
Bitter much? Why don't you spout some more false facts and see if that helps?
I didn't need a source which showed that the IRS made up a number that you repeat as fact. I knew that, remember, the post to which you just responded, it had a source.

[red states rule]

Bitter much? Why don't you spout some more false facts and see if that helps?
I didn't need a source which showed that the IRS made up a number that you repeat as fact. I knew that, remember, the post to which you just responded, it had a source.

I guess you are one of those "people" who think the government can provide a service cheaper and more efficient then the private sector

So now your excuse is "made up number"? Well considering the IRS will be enforcing most of Obamacare they should know all about it.

It is not bitter to want the idiots who voted for Obama to enjoy all the benefits of his second term. I see it everyday at work as fools wrote in saying the "Obama Plan" was to keep them in the house they can no longer afford. Now these fools will ee it when they have to pay more for less health coverage

[red states rule]

LR: Here are some more "made up numbers" for you




The Wall Street Journal’s Daniel Kessler (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323374504578217720567917856.html) argues that every claim made to push ObamaCare has been proven false:

• Lower health-care costs. One key talking point for ObamaCare was that it would reduce the cost of insurance, especially for non-group insurance. The president, citing the work of several health-policy experts, claimed that improved care coordination, investments in information technology, and more efficient marketing through exchanges would save the typical family $2,500 per year.


That was then. Now, even advocates for the law acknowledge that premiums are going up. In analyses conducted for the states of Wisconsin, Minnesota and Colorado, Jonathan Gruber of MIT forecasts that premiums in the non-group market will rise by 19% to 30% due to the law. Other estimates are even higher. The actuarial firm Milliman predicts that non-group premiums in Ohio will rise by 55%-85%. Maine, Oregon and Nevada have sponsored their own studies, all of which reach essentially the same conclusion. …


• Smaller deficits. Increases in the estimated impact of the law on private insurance premiums, along with increases in the estimated cost of health care more generally, have led the Congressional Budget Office to increase its estimate of the budget cost of the law’s coverage expansion. In 2010, CBO estimated the cost per year of expanding coverage at $154 billion; by 2012, the estimated cost grew to $186 billion. Yet CBO still scores the law as reducing the deficit.


How can this be? The positive budget score turns on the fact that the estimated revenues to pay for the law have risen along with its costs. The single largest source of these revenues? Money taken from Medicare in the form of lower Medicare payment rates, mostly in the law’s out-years. Since the law’s passage, however, Congress and the president have undone various scheduled Medicare cuts—including some prescribed by the law itself. ….
• Preservation of existing insurance. After the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of health reform in June 2012, President Obama said, “If you’re one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your insurance.” This theme ran throughout the selling of ObamaCare: People who have insurance would not have their current arrangements disrupted.


This claim is obviously false. Indeed, disruption of people’s existing insurance is one of the law’s stated goals. On one hand, the law seeks to increase the generosity of policies that it deems too stingy, by limiting deductibles and mandating coverage that the secretary of Health and Human Services thinks is “essential,” whether or not the policyholder can afford it. On the other hand, the law seeks to reduce the generosity of policies that it deems too extravagant, by imposing the “Cadillac tax” on costly insurance plans.

[logroller]

I guess you are one of those "people" who think the government can provide a service cheaper and more efficient then the private sector

So now your excuse is "made up number"? Well considering the IRS will be enforcing most of Obamacare they should know all about it.

It is not bitter to want the idiots who voted for Obama to enjoy all the benefits of his second term. I see it everyday at work as fools wrote in saying the "Obama Plan" was to keep them in the house they can no longer afford. Now these fools will ee it when they have to pay more for less health coverage
Assume whatever you want; doesn't make it fact. I've put forth my beliefs that every individual should buy their own healthcare, not their employer. You seem to think that your boss should pay for it; so don't give me this, LR is a big government guy BS. Your on the tit as much as anybody; its just you apparently like sticking it to man so much that being a drain on your employer is a ok.
and It was a made up number rsr. HHS hasn't released their pricing; that's who sets the federal exchange pricing, not the IRS. You obviously don't do your own taxes, do you? If you had, you'd know the iRS always uses examples to illustrate how taxes are assessed; they aren't meant to be actual: they're examples. I mean, take your hotair source's example of a family of four, am I to assume that a family of five can't get coverage, it only talked about about a family of four. And it said 1 wellness visit per year and it was $500 , ZOMG, so i cant go in for another checkup; what if I need a routine follow up? It doesn't mention that in the example, Ahhhhhhhh. Obama wont let me have followup visits!!!!

The reason Obama won is because of idiots on both sides that can't have a rational conversation without spouting idiotic talking points: which gives the incumbent advantage. It's sweet irony that you have to deal with it. I wish I could hear just one of your conversations.

[red states rule]

Assume whatever you want; doesn't make it fact. I've put forth my beliefs that every individual should buy their own healthcare, not their employer. You seem to think that your boss should pay for it; so don't give me this, LR is a big government guy BS. Your on the tit as much as anybody; its just you apparently like sticking it to man so much that being a drain on your employer is a ok.
and It was a made up number rsr. HHS hasn't released their pricing; that's who sets the federal exchange pricing, not the IRS. You obviously don't do your own taxes, do you? If you had, you'd know the iRS always uses examples to illustrate how taxes are assessed; they aren't meant to be actual: they're examples. I mean, take your hotair source's example of a family of four, am I to assume that a family of five can't get coverage, it only talked about about a family of four. And it said 1 wellness visit per year and it was $500 , ZOMG, so i cant go in for another checkup; what if I need a routine follow up? It doesn't mention that in the example, Ahhhhhhhh. Obama wont let me have followup visits!!!!

The reason Obama won is because of idiots on both sides that can't have a rational conversation without spouting idiotic talking points: which gives the incumbent advantage. It's sweet irony that you have to deal with it. I wish I could hear just one of your conversations.

One of my favorite movies is Cool Hand Luke and this sums up the last election LR. We had a failure to communicate and people wanted more of Obama and they now have it. And of course all of this is for our own good


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBBWUZfgRiw


And please tell me how you can have a rational conversation with people that call you a MURDERER or that you want to kill Grandma by throwing her over a cliff?

Obamacare is nothing more then a massive tax bill (over one trillion in new taxes thus far) so I stand by the IRS numbers as they will be collecting those taxes (or fess as some here prefer to call them

[logroller]

One of my favorite movies is Cool Hand Luke and this sums up the last election LR. We had a failure to communicate and people wanted more of Obama and they now have it. And of course all of this is for our own good


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBBWUZfgRiw


And please tell me how you can have a rational conversation with people that call you a MURDERER or that you want to kill Grandma by throwing her over a cliff?

Obamacare is nothing more then a massive tax bill (over one trillion in new taxes thus far) so I stand by the IRS numbers as they will be collecting those taxes (or fess as some here prefer to call them
Cool hand luke is a great flick, newman is awesome; but it was fiction-- You know that right? Can't be too sure.... $20k:poke:.

I don't know; people don't say those things to me. I get called a communist/ socialist agenda 21 globalist for thinking that urban infill and medium density housing should be pursued at the same pace as suburban development. With "studies" about too many rats in a cage eating each other as supportive evidence. How do I have a rational conversation with them?
So far as taxes go,it would be ideal if everyone had insurance, then it wouldn't matter. I don't know how realistic that is though; and thats the problem. Do you think everyone should have insurance and its just not feasible or what. Because quite frankly, people get sick, like deathly ill sick, and they require medical care. If they lack funds, how do they pay for it? And if they don't get it, they'll die. So where he or not you wish death upon them is not the issue, those people who say that are just frustrated and can't explain themselves well; but in all sincerity, what do we do with sick people that lack insurance?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The reason Obama won is because of idiots on both sides that can't have a rational conversation without spouting idiotic talking points: which gives the incumbent advantage. It's sweet irony that you have to deal with it. I wish I could hear just one of your conversations.

The reasonS obama won are CORRUPTION, BOUGHT OUT BLACK VOTE, U.S. MEDIA BIAS, FOREIGN INFLUENCES AND A DESTROYED PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM .

His first term should have caused his loss in a landslide. It did not because of gullibility and a dumbed down citizenry thanks to the liberal public education system created by the lousy dems.

Face the truth for a change this current dem party would have been called certified traitors by most of the U.S. population of just 40/50 years ago. That they are not is evidence of the corruption, decay and media propaganda blitz.

If a revolution ever does occur here some of us have already found what needs to be corrected. -Tyr

[cadet]

The reasonS obama won are CORRUPTION, BOUGHT OUT BLACK VOTE, U.S. MEDIA BIAS, FOREIGN INFLUENCES AND A DESTROYED PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM .

His first term should have caused his loss in a landslide. It did not because of gullibility and a dumbed down citizenry thanks to the liberal public education system created by the lousy dems.

Face the truth for a change this current dem party would have been called certified traitors by most of the U.S. population of just 40/50 years ago. That they are not is evidence of the corruption, decay and media propaganda blitz.

If a revolution ever does occur here some of us have already found what needs to be corrected. -Tyr

Don't forget the right wing vote was also split in half last election. If it wasn't for that, the red won by about 60-70%

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sometimes there is justice in the world. I do hope these libs are enjoying all that hope and change the rest of us are experiencing

Perhaps the silly liberal bastages should have been more careful what they begged for!
Too bad that they were not cut down to 8 hours a week!--:laugh2:--Tyr

[fj1200]

Don't forget the right wing vote was also split in half last election. If it wasn't for that, the red won by about 60-70%

What?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by red states rule http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=625553#post625553)

and it could not happen to a nicer bunch of folks. In the case of Professor Balla he has had his hours reduced, and his income slashed. Now that he has no insurance he must go out and purchase his own coverage. If he goes to he Obama Exchange the cheapest plan for a family four is about $20,000/yr. If he does not buy a policy he will have to pay the "tax" (or is it a fee?) or deal with the IRS for not doing so. I would like to ask Professor Balla how that hope and change is doing for him and his family


When the IRS published its final rule two weeks ago on how ObamaCare's tax penalty will work for those who turn down affordable coverage, it included a number of possible scenarios.In one, the IRS wrote, "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000" in 2016.
A short time later, near the top of the Drudge Report, a headline from conservative news site CNSNews.com blared out this shocking headline: "IRS: Cheapest ObamaCare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family."
From there, the news pretty much went viral, as that "fact" got picked up by countless media outlets and pundits, most of them on the right (here; here and here), but not all (here).
The only problem is that the $20,000 figure was an example that has no basis in fact. The IRS always uses hypothetical numerical examples in its regulations to illustrate how the rules will work in practice and this was no different.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/blogs-capi...#ixzz2OFvqxYXQ (http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/021513-644675-obamacare-cheapest-plan-wont-cost-20000.htm#ixzz2OFvqxYXQ)
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but I thought only the lame stream lib media spread such untruths as fact...might there be a conservative bias at work?

ok... so, if there is no basis in fact, you have factual numbers? From???



http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-healthcare-reform-costs/2013/03/20/id/495564

“Studies and analyses from the Congressional Budget Office, independent actuaries, state insurance commissioners, health plans, benefit consultants, and others have reached the same conclusion: Obamacare will significantly increase premiums,” the congressional report states.

“Some estimates show some Americans facing startling premium increases of 203 percent because of the law.

“Higher healthcare premiums are the last thing single young adults and working families can afford. Yet contrary to what the president promised, that is exactly what Obamacare is projected to do.”

When Obamacare’s most costly requirements go into effect in 2014, households earning as little as $46,000 a year will receive no premium assistance, yet will be forced to accept “unaffordable” premium increases, according to the report.

The report concludes: “Taking into account empirical evidence from past state-level experiences, as well as future projections, upon implementation Obamacare will make coverage dramatically more expensive and unaffordable for individuals and families.
“In short, Obamacare breaks its core promise to make healthcare coverage affordable as Americans across the country swallow higher premiums. For young adults to middle-class families, higher premiums will soon be the harsh reality of Obamacare.”

[logroller]

The reasonS obama won are CORRUPTION, BOUGHT OUT BLACK VOTE, U.S. MEDIA BIAS, FOREIGN INFLUENCES AND A DESTROYED PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM .

His first term should have caused his loss in a landslide. It did not because of gullibility and a dumbed down citizenry thanks to the liberal public education system created by the lousy dems.

Face the truth for a change this current dem party would have been called certified traitors by most of the U.S. population of just 40/50 years ago. That they are not is evidence of the corruption, decay and media propaganda blitz.

If a revolution ever does occur here some of us have already found what needs to be corrected. -Tyr
I think I made my point without your example, but thanks all the same!

[cadet]

What?

You heard me, the republicans and libertarians, instead of sending one guy up for the right, we sent up two and split the vote.
technically, blue lost. But red was split. Giving blue JUST enough to put obama in.
So hell, it's partially our fault.

Edit; Nevermind, relooking at facts.http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/07/gary-johnson-pulls-one-million-votes-one
Technically if all his votes were pushed toward Romney instead we would have won. Just sayin.
Wow, that really screwed us over.

[fj1200]

You heard me...

Umm, BO won by 5 million votes. Johnson? About a mill and a quarter.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I think I made my point without your example, but thanks all the same!

Right, entirely no need to present more info.. I mean why ever give a more detailed description, right?
When one says --"but thanks all the same" it is same as saying -- "thanks and ffkk you very much"!

[red states rule]

Perhaps the silly liberal bastages should have been more careful what they begged for!
Too bad that they were not cut down to 8 hours a week!--:laugh2:--Tyr

It is amazing to see so many people like LR who thinks government can do things cheaper and more efficiently then the private sector. LR refuses to admit the facts that Obamacare is and will be prove to be, a total and complete disaster and waste of taxpayer money. But folks like LR will eventually fall back on their old worn out excuse that the actual results of the program does not matter - only the good intentions of Obama and the libs to at least do "something" to solve the "problem"

[red states rule]

Right, entirely no need to present more info.. I mean why ever give a more detailed description, right?
When one says --"but thanks all the same" it is same as saying -- "thanks and ffkk you very much"!

http://www.newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/frontpage-200/thumbnail_photos/2013/March/Screen%20Shot%202013-03-22%20at%203.43.34%20PM_0.png

[Marcus Aurelius]

It is amazing to see so many people like LR who thinks government can do things cheaper and more efficiently then the private sector. LR refuses to admit the facts that Obamacare is and will be prove to be, a total and complete disaster and waste of taxpayer money. But folks like LR will eventually fall back on their old worn out excuse that the actual results of the program does not matter - only the good intentions of Obama and the libs to at least do "something" to solve the "problem"

If government could do things cheaper and more efficiently than the private sector, we'd not be hitching a ride to the ISS with the Russians.

[red states rule]

If government could do things cheaper and more efficiently than the private sector, we'd not be hitching a ride to the ISS with the Russians.

You know that and I know that. But the fools that believed Obama sure don't. I can't wait to hear them start squealing over how much they have to pay thanks to Obamacare. And of course the liberal media was right there pushing for the passage of Obamacare and calling anyone who turned out for those Town Halls as a bunch of racists

[aboutime]

You know that and I know that. But the fools that believed Obama sure don't. I can't wait to hear them start squealing over how much they have to pay thanks to Obamacare. And of course the liberal media was right there pushing for the passage of Obamacare and calling anyone who turned out for those Town Halls as a bunch of racists


red states rule. Not only will we hear them squealing over that. AL GORE announced ...AGAIN...how it's time for the CARBON TAX...

Hope they remember who they voted for back in 2000 as well...http://blog.algore.com/2013/03/time_has_come_for_a_carbon_tax.html

[fj1200]

It is amazing to see so many people like LR who thinks government can do things cheaper and more efficiently then the private sector.

Link?

[logroller]

ok... so, if there is no basis in fact, you have factual numbers? From???



http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-healthcare-reform-costs/2013/03/20/id/495564
Did I put forth actual numbers? No. I could make up numbers, based on fair estimates or assumption or whatever round number i feel elucidates my point. Doesn't make it factual though. they'd be made up/ not fact. sorry marcus, the burden of proof is upon the fact presenter. i showedthe origins of the $20k figure to one of a series of examples in an IRS guide, some of the assumptions were actually different and contradictory. So how can something be factual and at the same have refute its own facts. Answer: its not factual

Did your source have facts and figures? Because they haven been released HHS yet.

[red states rule]

Link?

Eh, how about the election results? Here I thought ConHog was gone but with you here, his spirit I alive and well

[red states rule]

Did I put forth actual numbers? No. I could make up numbers, based on fair estimates or assumption or whatever round number i feel elucidates my point. Doesn't make it factual though. they'd be made up/ not fact. sorry marcus, the burden of proof is upon the fact presenter. i showedthe origins of the $20k figure to one of a series of examples in an IRS guide, some of the assumptions were actually different and contradictory. So how can something be factual and at the same have refute its own facts. Answer: its not factual

Did your source have facts and figures? Because they haven been released HHS yet.

What proof? Next up you will lecture us how Obamacare will lower the cost of our healthcare, improve the delivery of services, and find a cure for cancer. I do not know if you actually believe all the pro big government crap you post LR or if you are doing it for comic relief

[red states rule]

While the liberal media will ignore them, you have find examples of how Obamacare is causing libs to ask questions. Here is a wonderful example
On February 27, political strategist Donna Brazile’s Twitter feed became a conservative dream come true: a Democrat facing the reality of government regulation. Brazile has been one of President Obama’s strongest advocates and supporters, especially regarding Obamacare. She tweeted last March:
http://spectator.org/assets/mc/Brazile1.jpg
She even went as far as calling (http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/07/11/Dona-Brazile-Opposing-ObamaCare-Intolerant) opponents of Obamacare “intolerant.” But now the reality of government regulation in the private marketplace hasn’t gone the way Ms. Brazile had hoped:
http://spectator.org/assets/mc/Brazile2.jpg
There may not be a good answer for her, but there is a correct one: Obamacare. Healthcare premiums increased 9% in 2011 and are expected to increase (http://www.shrm.org/hrdisciplines/benefits/Articles/Pages/Health-Premiums-2013.aspx) by 6% in 2013. A loyal Democrat, however, never lets math or economics get in the way of ideology. Brazile doubled down:
http://spectator.org/assets/mc/Brazile3.jpg
Despite Brazile’s best efforts to deflect the problem onto greedy corporations, prices for young people are set to skyrocket (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/good-news-premiums-go-17-young-people) under Obamacare. Further, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act doesn’t permit price gouging, since the law allows at most a 3-to-1 ratio for premiums. Brazile catches onto this, and then launches into a holier-than-thou rant about how Obamacare protects seniors and women from greedy capitalists:
http://spectator.org/assets/mc/Brazile4.jpg
http://spectator.org/assets/mc/Brazile5.jpg
Brazile takes the road more often traveled: rather than questioning her ideology and her president’s policies, she simply doubles down again, praising the president’s actions and getting excited about the future after seeming to not understand how they have gotten us to the present:
http://spectator.org/assets/mc/Brazile6.jpg
I often question whether liberals like Donna Brazile ever will place blame on their own failed policies and how they hurt the very people they promise to protect: seniors, women, minorities… people like Brazile. I also question if any liberal has ever passed a high school economics or math class…or in Michael Moore’s case, gym. http://spectator.org/archives/2013/03/01/donna-brazile-and-the-bitter-r

[fj1200]

Eh, how about the election results? Here I thought ConHog was gone but with you here, his spirit I alive and well

Silly me thinking you would link to something log said rather than falling back on a talking point. My bad.

[fj1200]

While the liberal media will ignore them, you have find examples of how Obamacare is causing libs to ask questions. Here is a wonderful example

Introspection; You should take a page.

[jimnyc]

I just read all the twitter crap above from that "Donna Brazile", and I'm admittedly laughing a little. People like her are already preparing excuses. Obamacare will have doctors, insurance companies and employers, all doing what they can to recover money, which is passing it on to the consumer, and she's too dense to get it. By next year they will be blaming the effects of Obamacare on Bush.

[aboutime]

I just read all the twitter crap above from that "Donna Brazile", and I'm admittedly laughing a little. People like her are already preparing excuses. Obamacare will have doctors, insurance companies and employers, all doing what they can to recover money, which is passing it on to the consumer, and she's too dense to get it. By next year they will be blaming the effects of Obamacare on Bush.


jimnyc. They already have been, and are STILL blaming everything on Bush. It's the one, and only honest thing liberals always agree about. And everybody who calls themself a liberal is programmed...ala Obama, to use that excuse Forever.

[logroller]

Right, entirely no need to present more info.. I mean why ever give a more detailed description, right?
When one says --"but thanks all the same" it is same as saying -- "thanks and ffkk you very much"!
"thanks all the same" meant your post was superfluous. Made quite clear in the predicate "I think I made my point..." about inflammatory talking points without your exemplary inflamed talking points. If I wanted to tell you to fuck off, I'd just say that, not "thanks". I don't even know why someone would say that. Its like saying "with all due respect..." and then insulting someone.

[red states rule]

"thanks all the same" meant your post was superfluous. Made quite clear in the predicate "I think I made my point..." about inflammatory talking points without your exemplary inflamed talking points. If I wanted to tell you to fuck off, I'd just say that, not "thanks". I don't even know why someone would say that. Its like saying "with all due respect..." and then insulting someone.

It is clear you and FU are ignoring basic Economics 101 and have signed on to Obamanomics -201. Also what you call inflammatory talking points the rest of us call discussing the results of Obama's policies. Like the takers who voted for him twice, folks like you and FU have helped sign the nations economic death warrant by allowing Dems to stay in power and continue our economic downfall. Not only people falling further behind, Dems have shown their contempt for the taxpayers by voting against balancing the budget and continue their spending spree. Obamacare is set to bust the budget even more, cost people more for their coverage, while getting less care. Thanks LR - without folks like you Obama never could have pulled it off. You and FU must be proud right now. And why not tell people to "F off. That is what most libs say to anyone who has a different opinion on the role and size of government. People like you support the Nanny State while some of us want to be left alone and do not want to be treated like a serf tending the fields for elected Dems

[fj1200]

It is clear you and FU are ignoring basic Economics 101 and have signed on to Obamanomics -201. Also what you call inflammatory talking points the rest of us call discussing the results of Obama's policies. Like the takers who voted for him twice, folks like you and FU have helped sign the nations economic death warrant by allowing Dems to stay in power and continue our economic downfall. Not only people falling further behind, Dems have shown their contempt for the taxpayers by voting against balancing the budget and continue their spending spree. Obamacare is set to bust the budget even more, cost people more for their coverage, while getting less care. Thanks LR - without folks like you Obama never could have pulled it off. You and FU must be proud right now. And why not tell people to "F off. That is what most libs say to anyone who has a different opinion on the role and size of government. People like you support the Nanny State while some of us want to be left alone and do not want to be treated like a serf tending the fields for elected Dems

:laugh: You are the worst kind of low information voter; the one who complains about low information voters on the other side. Way to define yourself as a lib. :laugh:

[red states rule]

:laugh: You are the worst kind of low information voter; the one who complains about low information voters on the other side. Way to define yourself as a lib. :laugh:

Tell me FU does sucking up to libs like LR, and ConMan really compensate for not having any debate skills? So far neither of you have been unable to prove Obamacare is a success. Unless you support Obama's intent to increase costs and have folks receive less care. But I really never expected anything more form either of you

[fj1200]

Tell me FU does sucking up to libs like LR, and ConMan really compensate for not having any debate skills? So far neither of you have been unable to prove Obamacare is a success. Unless you support Obama's intent to increase costs and have folks receive less care. But I really never expected anything more form either of you

:laugh: Nothing like sticking to your talking points when all else fails. :laugh: Where have I ever attempted to show ACA was a success or had any chance at being a success?

Geez, a brick wall takes information better than you.

[red states rule]

:laugh: Nothing like sticking to your talking points when all else fails. :laugh: Where have I ever attempted to show ACA was a success or had any chance at being a success?

Geez, a brick wall takes information better than you.

Yes, talking points to people like you are also known as facts to the rest of us.

As the libs and liberal media celebrate Obamacare's third birthday more and more is known about the massive tax and spend bill




Big government likes big providers. That’s why ObamaCare is gradually making the local doctor-owned medical practice a relic. In the not too distant future, most physicians will be hourly wage earners, likely employed by a hospital chain.


Why? Because when doctors practice in small offices, it is hard for Washington to regulate what they do. There are too many of them, and the government is too remote. It is far easier for federal agencies to regulate physicians if they work for big hospitals. So ObamaCare shifts money to favor the delivery of outpatient care through hospital-owned networks.


The irony is that in the name of lowering costs, ObamaCare will almost certainly make the practice of medicine more expensive (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323628804578346614033833092.html). It turns out that when doctors become salaried hospital employees, their overall productivity falls.
<center>***</center>Over one-third of the 9.1 million full-time jobs among America’s diverse business franchises could be cut back or eliminated by Obamacare as small businesses struggle to maintain profitability while coughing up money to pay for Washington-mandated health care coverage, according to the International Franchise Association.


The threat of hitting 3.2 million full-time workers (http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2525125#.UUxKk9un9uc.twitter) as the Affordable Care Act takes effect next year is prompting the owners of fast food restaurants, service companies and other franchises to urge Congress to make significant changes in Obamacare…


“The ACA has made health care an inextricable cost of running a small business in America and continues to evolve with regard to its cost and complexity for franchisees and franchisors as the law becomes fully implemented ahead of 2014,” said IFA Senior Vice President of Government Relations & Public Policy Judith Thorman. “Preparing your franchise business to deal with the ACA should be a top priority for franchisees and franchisors.”
<center>***</center>Federal officials are developing contingency plans in case the health insurance exchanges are not fully ready to begin enrolling people on Oct. 1, the head of the agency that’s building the massive 50-state marketplace structure said last week…


Making contingency plans for October is necessary, Cohen said. “I think it’s only prudent to not assume everything is going to work perfectly on day one and to make sure that we’ve got plans in place to address things that may happen,” added Cohen, whose division is part of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS)…


Chao was frank about the stress and tension of the compressed time frame involved in setting up the exchanges. “We are under 200 days from open enrollment, and I’m pretty nervous (http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Newsletters/Washington-Health-Policy-in-Review/2013/Mar/March-18-2013/HHS-Working-on-Contingency-Plans.aspx),’’ he said. “I don’t know about you,” he added, to murmurs from the insurance industry audience.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/03/22/quotes-of-the-day-1325/

[fj1200]

Yes, talking points to people like you are also known as facts to the rest of us.

Yup, I didn't expect that you could back up your words...


Where have I ever attempted to show ACA was a success or had any chance at being a success?

... thereby proving my posit.


... a brick wall takes information better than you.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

... thereby proving my posit.

Rarely ever seen your positions here proven other than in your own undercover liberal mind..;)

[fj1200]

Rarely ever seen your positions here proven other than in your own undercover liberal mind..;)

Undercover eh? That must be why you fail to prove your theory.

[red states rule]

Yup, I didn't expect that you could back up your words...



... thereby proving my posit.

You are amazing FUTroll. No matter how many facts are presented you ignore them and go on like nothing has changed. You are on of these libs who would support Obama spending taxpayer money to invent the first solar powered flashlight and wait in line with LR and ConMan to buy one

[red states rule]

Rarely ever seen your positions here proven other than in your own undercover liberal mind..;)

Tyr, when FUTroll speaks his mind he is silent

[red states rule]

jimnyc. They already have been, and are STILL blaming everything on Bush. It's the one, and only honest thing liberals always agree about. And everybody who calls themself a liberal is programmed...ala Obama, to use that excuse Forever.

Meanwhile, libs tell us to enjoy what they are serving up


http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/lb0327cd20130326023803.jpg

[fj1200]

You are amazing FUTroll. No matter how many facts are presented you ignore them and go on like nothing has changed. You are on of these libs who would support Obama spending taxpayer money to invent the first solar powered flashlight and wait in line with LR and ConMan to buy one

You're kind of a moron. You have absolutely zero ability to debate an issue and when presented with someone who doesn't drink the same kind of kool aid as you you immediately attempt to attack the person. You're more like the liberals you rail against every day than you will ever realize. I would ask you to back up your words but you would simply ignore the challenge and revert to your ignorant simplistic blather. The only reason I prefer your type of low-informationism over liberal low-informationism is that you don't demand new government programs to alleviate your ignorance. Except for your insistence that government favor your preferred type of relationship over others' that is.

[fj1200]

Tyr, when FUTroll speaks his mind he is silent

I see when you're made to look even more the fool you have to up the attack level. More evidence of your failure. :2up:

[aboutime]

I see when you're made to look even more the fool you have to up the attack level. More evidence of your failure. :2up:


FJ. You are finally getting the picture. You are just angry because others use your tactics, and techniques that make us look like you.

[logroller]

You are amazing FUTroll. No matter how many facts are presented you ignore them and go on like nothing has changed. You are on of these libs who would support Obama spending taxpayer money to invent the first solar powered flashlight and wait in line with LR and ConMan to buy one

Facts like increased drilling and increased oil supply coinciding higher fuel prices over decades that contained both Dem and Rep controlled presidencies and congresses? Niche was right, you've became the monster you sought destroy. :slap:

Solar powered flashlights...why would I go to Obama and wait in line? :Dunno:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001NTT45Y

[logroller]

FJ. You are finally getting the picture. You are just angry because others use your tactics, and techniques that make us look like you.
Presenting well-reasoned explanations of the facts? If only that were the case. Were he going about calling people neocon teabaggers in nearly every post, maybe you'd have a point.

[red states rule]

Facts like increased drilling and increased oil supply coinciding higher fuel prices over decades that contained both Dem and Rep controlled presidencies and congresses? Niche was right, you've became the monster you sought destroy. :slap:

Solar powered flashlights...why would I go to Obama and wait in line? :Dunno:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001NTT45Y

LR, as I have posted I have never said drilling has not increased on private land. You know - the private sector. Profit motivated drilling

But you refuse to admit drilling has gone down on federal owned land. You know Obama and his desire to push his green agenda

The only monster is Obama, and his supporters who are dragging the nation down and people like you who have decided to look the other way and blame the working claas folks for using cars to go to work and try and keep up in this Obama "recovery"

[red states rule]

You're kind of a moron. You have absolutely zero ability to debate an issue and when presented with someone who doesn't drink the same kind of kool aid as you you immediately attempt to attack the person. You're more like the liberals you rail against every day than you will ever realize. I would ask you to back up your words but you would simply ignore the challenge and revert to your ignorant simplistic blather. The only reason I prefer your type of low-informationism over liberal low-informationism is that you don't demand new government programs to alleviate your ignorance. Except for your insistence that government favor your preferred type of relationship over others' that is.

If I am drinking the Kool Aid, you are drinking Obama's bath water

[fj1200]

FJ. You are finally getting the picture. You are just angry because others use your tactics, and techniques that make us look like you.


If I am drinking the Kool Aid, you are drinking Obama's bath water

More evidence that expecting reasoned debate from the likes of you two is pointless.

[fj1200]

... you've became the monster you sought destroy. :slap:


Harsh. Insightful, but harsh.

[aboutime]

Harsh. Insightful, but harsh.


Awe. Somebody's feelings got hurt. How terrible life is when the TRUTH rears it's ugly head?

[fj1200]

Awe. Somebody's feelings got hurt. How terrible life is when the TRUTH rears it's ugly head?

Why would my feelings be hurt? Log wasn't posting to me.

[aboutime]

Why would my feelings be hurt? Log wasn't posting to me.


Did I say your name? Your denial is showing.

[fj1200]

Did I say your name? Your denial is showing.

Uh you quoted my post... and the only other party involved was log who made the post I quoted... and rsr who was the subject of what I quoted... I thought they kicked people out of the Navy who exhibit signs of excessive drug use. :dunno:

[logroller]

LR, as I have posted I have never said drilling has not increased on private land. You know - the private sector. Profit motivated drilling

But you refuse to admit drilling has gone down on federal owned land. You know Obama and his desire to push his green agenda

The only monster is Obama, and his supporters who are dragging the nation down and people like you who have decided to look the other way and blame the working claas folks for using cars to go to work and try and keep up in this Obama "recovery"
Never did i dispute that offshore drilling on federal land is down. on shore federal drilling is up though. But the combined effect is lesser drilling on fed land. so stipulated. Offshore drilling is reduced because we had the worst oil in US history at an offshore platform on federal land just a few years back. Do you understand the reasoning? That because of the loss of life, extensive and perhaps irreparable environmental damage and negative economic effects upon the livelihoods of millions due to profit-motivated negligence that led to that disaster, there is heightened scrutiny upon those firms wishing to engage in offshore drilling.
Does not drilling have an effect on production? Probably. Fuel prices? Possibly. But seeing that aggregate petroleum production, meaning all oil produced in the US, along with fuel prices are trending upwards over a time-period that precedes Obama and his policies by decades--- I have asked you, repeatedly but to nary a response, why this is happening if Obama's de facto moratorium on offshore drilling is the culprit? Instead I get you focusing on cherry-picked facts of so little importance that I am left to assume you have no idea why it now this is happening--so you attribute unto others the blame and cast disparaging remarks in lieu of tactful consideration of what I am trying to explain is a irreversible trend save decreased consumption.

[gabosaurus]

I know a lot of liberals. None of us are feeling any effects, positive or negative.
RSR proven wrong again. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

[red states rule]

I know a lot of liberals. None of us are feeling any effects, positive or negative.
RSR proven wrong again. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Try talking to college professor named in the OP

and even the Clinton News Network is asking if the voters were lied to


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AiFah_iJF_g

[Voted4Reagan]

I know a lot of liberals. None of us are feeling any effects, positive or negative.
RSR proven wrong again. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

How did you prove him wrong?

All you did was make a little statement and dismiss the whole question.

health care costs are up and will increase under Obama Care.

you're just being pithy and looking for attention again.

[jimnyc]

I know a lot of liberals. None of us are feeling any effects, positive or negative.
RSR proven wrong again. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

YET is the key. Even Sebelius herself, many other politicians, insurance companies, doctors, hospitals, companies..... They all say the same thing - premiums going up, and costs going up.

[Robert A Whit]

Never did i dispute that offshore drilling on federal land is down. on shore federal drilling is up though. But the combined effect is lesser drilling on fed land. so stipulated. Offshore drilling is reduced because we had the worst oil in US history at an offshore platform on federal land just a few years back. Do you understand the reasoning? That because of the loss of life, extensive and perhaps irreparable environmental damage and negative economic effects upon the livelihoods of millions due to profit-motivated negligence that led to that disaster, there is heightened scrutiny upon those firms wishing to engage in offshore drilling.
Does not drilling have an effect on production? Probably. Fuel prices? Possibly. But seeing that aggregate petroleum production, meaning all oil produced in the US, along with fuel prices are trending upwards over a time-period that precedes Obama and his policies by decades--- I have asked you, repeatedly but to nary a response, why this is happening if Obama's de facto moratorium on offshore drilling is the culprit? Instead I get you focusing on cherry-picked facts of so little importance that I am left to assume you have no idea why it now this is happening--so you attribute unto others the blame and cast disparaging remarks in lieu of tactful consideration of what I am trying to explain is a irreversible trend save decreased consumption.

The USA border only extends 12 miles. I believe the well that exploded was at least 40 miles off shore. I keep trying to understand the USA permitting on international waters.

This is from Wikipedia with link included.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#Deepwater_Horizon_dril ling_rig

The Deepwater Horizon was a 9-year-oldsemi-submersible, mobile, floating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-submersible#Mobile_offshore_drilling_units_.28MODU .29),dynamically positioned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_positioning) drilling rig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drilling_rig) that could operate in waters up to 10,000 feet (3,000 m) deep.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#cite_note-AutoBB-22-22) Built by South Korean company Hyundai Heavy Industries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Heavy_Industries)[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#cite_note-AutoBB-23-23) and owned by Transocean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transocean), the rig operated under the Marshallese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Islands) flag of convenience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience), and was chartered to BP from March 2008 to September 2013.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#cite_note-MHL-2) It was drilling a 35,050 feet (10,680 m) deep exploratory well in approximately 5,100 feet (1,600 m) of water. The well is situated in the Macondo Prospect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macondo_Prospect)in Mississippi Canyon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Canyon) Block 252 (MC252) of the Gulf of Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico), in the United States'exclusive economic zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone). The Macondo well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macondo_well) is located roughly 41 miles (66 km) off the Louisiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana) coast.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#cite_note-USA-24)[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#cite_note-BP-25) BP was the operator and principal developer of the Macondo Prospect with a 65% share, while 25% was owned by Anadarko Petroleum Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anadarko_Petroleum_Corporation), and 10% by MOEX Offshore 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsui_Oil_Exploration_Co.#United_States_operation s), a unit ofMitsui (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsui).[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#cite_note-subsea-26)

As I stated, the well was in international waters. I don’t understand how Obama had charge of a canyon in deep waters well outside the limits of the USA limits of authority.

[aboutime]

YET is the key. Even Sebelius herself, many other politicians, insurance companies, doctors, hospitals, companies..... They all say the same thing - premiums going up, and costs going up.


jimnyc. As an Alcoholic. I recognize what gabby said as nothing but DENIAL.

Just think about it. What Liberal, Democrat would EVER admit their Buyers Remorse is taking it's toll, when it comes to anything Obama??

We are never going to see, read, or hear any Liberal suddenly becoming Honest, or Truthful, and spill their guts about TWO back-to-back mistakes like Voting for Obama TWICE.

[Robert A Whit]

jimnyc. As an Alcoholic. I recognize what gabby said as nothing but DENIAL.

Just think about it. What Liberal, Democrat would EVER admit their Buyers Remorse is taking it's toll, when it comes to anything Obama??

We are never going to see, read, or hear any Liberal suddenly becoming Honest, or Truthful, and spill their guts about TWO back-to-back mistakes like Voting for Obama TWICE.

You nailed it.

Given the problems I have with alcoholics, I am pleased to report I never had that problem. There but for the grace of God go I.

[red states rule]

http://blogsensebybarb.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/dmv-department-of-motor-vehicles-health-care-reform-barack-obama-motivational-posters-demotivational-posters-funny-hot-free-political-humor-parody-gag.jpg

[cadet]

http://blogsensebybarb.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/dmv-department-of-motor-vehicles-health-care-reform-barack-obama-motivational-posters-demotivational-posters-funny-hot-free-political-humor-parody-gag.jpg

My aunt lives in finland, their health care kinda sucks a lot.
She says "It's free" Not for 40 percent of your pay to pay tax for it!
She says it works great, not when it takes a month to get back the results for an MRI.

[red states rule]

My aunt lives in finland, their health care kinda sucks a lot.
She says "It's free" Not for 40 percent of your pay to pay tax for it!
She says it works great, not when it takes a month to get back the results for an MRI.

Details, details, Will you please stop nitpicking Obama's crowning achievement?

40% is only the beginning. Remember libs are demanding ONE TRILLION in new taxes in their budget so they want even more (and their budget still does not balance)