Burqatastic!

[Abbey Marie]

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/burqa-620x430.jpg
Parents are demanding answers after a Texas teacher reportedly invited female students to dress up in Islamic garb and told the class to refer to Muslim terrorists as freedom fighters. Texas state Sen. Dan Patrick, chairman of the Senate Education Committee, has launched an investigation into the incident. He told Fox News he was disturbed after seeing a photograph of female students wearing
burqas and learning that students were reportedly taught that the cause for Egypt’s turmoil is democracy, not the Muslim Brotherhood, based on an article by the Washington Post.

The lesson on Islam was apparently taught in a world geography class at Lumberton High School in Lumberton, Texas...
...


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/25/facebook-photo-of-female-students-dressed-in-burqas-for-lesson-on-islam-prompts-state-investigation/#

[Syrenn]

the teacher should be fired! And the school should be sued fro emotional distress.

[Drummond]

I came across a rough British equivalent of this, quite some time ago. See ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277744/Parents-outrage-children-told-dress-Muslim-mosque-trip--branded-truant.html


A Roman Catholic schoolgirl has been labelled a truant after she refused to wear a headscarf during a compulsory trip to a mosque.

Amy Owen, 14, and fellow girl pupils at a Catholic secondary school were told to cover their heads and wear trousers or leggings out of respect for their Muslim hosts.

But when her mother objected, saying she did not want her daughter to 'dress as a Muslim', she received a sternly worded warning letter from the headmaster saying she had no choice.

Peter Lee, head of Ellesmere Port Catholic High School in Cheshire, informed her that the local diocese 'requires' pupils to have an understanding of other religions.

In the letter - with words in block capitals and underlined - Mr Lee said the visit was 'as compulsory as a geography field trip'.

He added: 'There are two reasons for these visits. One is that the scheme of work in religious studies REQUIRES children to have knowledge and understanding of other world religions.

'The second is that the school is REQUIRED to promote tolerance respect and understanding. This is known as community cohesion.

'A failure to do this could result in an unwelcome inspection judgement. None of us would relish that.

'Whilst I may not require you to pay for this I must require your child to participate.'
Total disrespect for Catholic sensibilities .. combined with an overriding of them, in order to promote a pro-Muslim 'understanding' ... BY COMPULSORY ORDER ..

[mundame]

When I read the OP it occurred to me that this COULD be innocent ---- that is, not pro-Muslim coercion. (I would view that as wrong.) That is, that the kids dressing up is a pretty darn good illustration of why it's better not to have to do that!!! For both the boys and the girls: try it and be horrified.

And the "freedom fighters" and "democracy is the problem" business could be sarcasm.

I hope so, and if so, I hope the teacher doesn't get in trouble.

[Syrenn]

When I read the OP it occurred to me that this COULD be innocent ---- that is, not pro-Muslim coercion. (I would view that as wrong.) That is, that the kids dressing up is a pretty darn good illustration of why it's better not to have to do that!!! For both the boys and the girls: try it and be horrified.

And the "freedom fighters" and "democracy is the problem" business could be sarcasm.

I hope so, and if so, I hope the teacher doesn't get in trouble.


my brothers girlfriends daughter came home one day declaring she would no longer eat meat.

The vegetarian teacher had them matching the faces of animals to cuts of meat.

little things in school can impact children badly.

[jafar00]

There is nothing wrong with the kids dressing up to learn about other cultures. I do hope though that they were not told that the Burqa and Niqab are from Islam as they are cultural garb. Only the Hijab is written about in the Qur'aan.


I came across a rough British equivalent of this, quite some time ago. See ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277744/Parents-outrage-children-told-dress-Muslim-mosque-trip--branded-truant.html


Total disrespect for Catholic sensibilities .. combined with an overriding of them, in order to promote a pro-Muslim 'understanding' ... BY COMPULSORY ORDER ..


All women (and men) are supposed to cover up when visiting a Mosque. It is out of respect for Islamic traditions that it is done. Thousands of tourists visit historic Mosques throughout the world and people are asked to cover up and it's never a problem.

As for Catholic sensibilities, aren't catholic women supposed to cover their hair and be silent in Church?

[jimnyc]

On the face of it I don't have a problem with kids learning about other cultures. But politically involving them as to whether someone is a terrorist or a freedom fighter, would depend on each and every incident. And if they teach these kids about the MB, they should teach them about ALL of the Brotherhood, not just pieces.

But here's where I have an issue. Islam and their religion are one and the same, and part of that is how some dress. They are edging awfully close to having these kids taught about Islam as a religion. I'm cool with them teaching certain things about the western world, and muslims, I think it would be sad to have them allow certain religious things while tossing out every aspect of any other religion.

[jimnyc]

As for Catholic sensibilities, aren't catholic women supposed to cover their hair and be silent in Church?

Never heard of that. The women at all of the Churches I have been to don't do that, and are actively involved as much as men. Outside of the priests, there are 2x as many women "working" at my church, and others I have belonged to growing up in NJ.

[Marcus Aurelius]

As for Catholic sensibilities, aren't catholic women supposed to cover their hair and be silent in Church?

Quite simply... no. You're a moron to even think it.

[Syrenn]

There is nothing wrong with the kids dressing up to learn about other cultures. I do hope though that they were not told that the Burqa and Niqab are from Islam as they are cultural garb. Only the Hijab is written about in the Qur'aan.



All women (and men) are supposed to cover up when visiting a Mosque. It is out of respect for Islamic traditions that it is done. Thousands of tourists visit historic Mosques throughout the world and people are asked to cover up and it's never a problem.

As for Catholic sensibilities, aren't catholic women supposed to cover their hair and be silent in Church?




School is not a mosque now is it. Burkas are not a cultural form of clothing... it is a religious statement in clothing.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The Op is not burqatastic..

THIS, is burkatastic!
http://www.catehuston.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/burka-sexy.jpg

[Syrenn]

On the face of it I don't have a problem with kids learning about other cultures. But politically involving them as to whether someone is a terrorist or a freedom fighter, would depend on each and every incident. And if they teach these kids about the MB, they should teach them about ALL of the Brotherhood, not just pieces.

But here's where I have an issue. Islam and their religion are one and the same, and part of that is how some dress. They are edging awfully close to having these kids taught about Islam as a religion. I'm cool with them teaching certain things about the western world, and muslims, I think it would be sad to have them allow certain religious things while tossing out every aspect of any other religion.

a burka is not ....cultural. It is religious.

[Syrenn]

Never heard of that. The women at all of the Churches I have been to don't do that, and are actively involved as much as men. Outside of the priests, there are 2x as many women "working" at my church, and others I have belonged to growing up in NJ.


it is an older practice.... but yes covering your head was an accepted practice in christian churches. It is what morphed into the fashion show of clothing for women on Sundays today.

[tailfins]

There is nothing wrong with the kids dressing up to learn about other cultures. I do hope though that they were not told that the Burqa and Niqab are from Islam as they are cultural garb. Only the Hijab is written about in the Qur'aan.



All women (and men) are supposed to cover up when visiting a Mosque. It is out of respect for Islamic traditions that it is done. Thousands of tourists visit historic Mosques throughout the world and people are asked to cover up and it's never a problem.

As for Catholic sensibilities, aren't catholic women supposed to cover their hair and be silent in Church?

The best way to have an American NOT do something is tell them it's compulsory. Just like it says on my license plates: "Live Free or Die".

[Drummond]

When I read the OP it occurred to me that this COULD be innocent ---- that is, not pro-Muslim coercion. (I would view that as wrong.) That is, that the kids dressing up is a pretty darn good illustration of why it's better not to have to do that!!! For both the boys and the girls: try it and be horrified.

And the "freedom fighters" and "democracy is the problem" business could be sarcasm.

I hope so, and if so, I hope the teacher doesn't get in trouble.

Well, in the example I posted, the Catholic mother was in the situation of the local education authority INSISTING that her child dress as a Muslim. Not that it was suggested. Not that any possibility of choice existed. It was DICTATED that she must do so.

I see nothing good about parents losing control over the way they prefer their children to be brought up. Showing 'respect' for an alternative culture is one thing, but having those differences forced upon you, in a manner that nobody but the education authority controls .. that's something else. It's a brand of indoctrination, and State-led at that.

I suggest this: whether we're talking about my example, or the example this thread led with, what we have here is a Left-wing influence using children's sensibilities to promote a Left-wing agenda.

And I say it is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

[darin]

Anyone else open this thread thinking it was about Hamburgers? Burgertastic??

[Drummond]

The Op is not burqatastic..

THIS, is burkatastic!
http://www.catehuston.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/burka-sexy.jpg

;);):banana:

[Drummond]

There is nothing wrong with the kids dressing up to learn about other cultures. I do hope though that they were not told that the Burqa and Niqab are from Islam as they are cultural garb. Only the Hijab is written about in the Qur'aan.



All women (and men) are supposed to cover up when visiting a Mosque. It is out of respect for Islamic traditions that it is done. Thousands of tourists visit historic Mosques throughout the world and people are asked to cover up and it's never a problem.

As for Catholic sensibilities, aren't catholic women supposed to cover their hair and be silent in Church?

There is more involved than what you're choosing to acknowledge. There is the element of compulsion. There is also the element of indoctrination.

But still, why should you worry, when all this feeds into what you, and your fellow Muslims, prefer to see ?

[tailfins]

There is more involved than what you're choosing to acknowledge. There is the element of compulsion. There is also the element of indoctrination.

But still, why should you worry, when all this feeds into what you, and your fellow Muslims, prefer to see ?

Back in high school, the teacher re-enacted the McCarthy hearings. She couldn't get enough volunteers. I volunteered as Joe McCarthy and I got other conservative students to play along. It didn't fit the teacher's agenda at all. What if the student did the assignment in a manner derogatory to Islam?

[Voted4Reagan]

Never heard of that. The women at all of the Churches I have been to don't do that, and are actively involved as much as men. Outside of the priests, there are 2x as many women "working" at my church, and others I have belonged to growing up in NJ.

THE TEACHER SHOULD BE FIRED. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!! as liberals so often cry...

Catholic women had the OPTION of covering their heads with a hat or a scarf or cloth. but it was always OPTIONAL and after the first Vatican Conclave was pretty much abandoned.

Every now and then you see a catholic woman with an ornate lace covering on her hair. Usually elderly parishioners.

It was called a MANTILLA and was predominantly from Europe and more associated with Orthodox or very devout Catholiscm.

Glad I could help

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-C8gM7XZHAsI/TgERR0LtFwI/AAAAAAAAAnc/oxhfuQx49ec/s1600/414px-Schumann_Clara_by_Rabending.jpg

[Kathianne]

The TX example I may have problems with, hard to tell as there's no context given.

The British example I have problems with the Catholic School, the mosque did nothing wrong. Accept an invite to the mosque, play by their requirements. What the school did wrong was force participation on a field trip. Would have been a non-issue if the girl was just allowed to stay home or do school work in a classroom that wasn't going on said field trip.

[gabosaurus]

Not in agreement with the lesson, but it appears that some of this story may have been distorted.
The school district has not backed down from its involvement. Here is a statement that appears on their website.

http://www.lumberton.k12.tx.us/education/components/whatsnew/default.php?sectiondetailid=10420&viewType=detail&id=1500

[tailfins]

Not in agreement with the lesson, but it appears that some of this story may have been distorted.
The school district has not backed down from its involvement. Here is a statement that appears on their website.

http://www.lumberton.k12.tx.us/education/components/whatsnew/default.php?sectiondetailid=10420&viewType=detail&id=1500

Nice research job.

[gabosaurus]

When I was in high school, we had a study about different governments, and about how some countries have religious governments and some have secular governments.
I went to New York City once for a student leadership conference. We held a mock United Nations, with students invited to portray citizens of different countries they had researched in advance. Since I am half-German, I did Germany. My roommate was of Spanish origin, so she did Spain. You were encouraged to dress appropriately, in formal dress of that country.
I have worn a burqua. When I was in college, my college roommate and I joined a group of about two dozen women who wore then during a trip to San Francisco. We walked around in the business district for a while. Most ignored us, but we did get some threats and hostile comments.
Burquas are not very comfortable.

[PostmodernProphet]

There is nothing wrong with the kids dressing up to learn about other cultures.


true....I read recently that an Iranian school had the girls wear bikinis to class so they could experience western culture for the very same reason.......

[gabosaurus]

true....I read recently that an Iranian school had the girls wear bikinis to class so they could experience western culture for the very same reason.......

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

http://iwantsomefun.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/just-stop-sound-stupid.jpg

[jafar00]

Never heard of that. The women at all of the Churches I have been to don't do that, and are actively involved as much as men. Outside of the priests, there are 2x as many women "working" at my church, and others I have belonged to growing up in NJ.

Read 1 Corinthians 11
On Covering the Head in Worship2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+11&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28604a)] and the head of Christ is God.4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.



School is not a mosque now is it. Burkas are not a cultural form of clothing... it is a religious statement in clothing.

Burkas are entirely cultural. Why do you think they are not seen outside of Taliban controlled Afghanistan?


a burka is not ....cultural. It is religious.

It is not religious at all. In fact, the Prophet Mohamed (saw) extended what is written about Hijab in the Qur'aan in a well known hadith.

Abu Dawood narrates that `Aishah (RAA) said: "Asmaa' the daughter of Abu Bakr (RAA) came to see the Messenger of Allah (SAAWS) wearing a thin dress; so Allah's Messenger (SAAWS) turned away from her and said: O Asmaa', once a woman reaches the age of menstruation, no part of her body should be seen but this-and he pointed to his face and hands.

There is nothing about burqas or niqab in any Islamic religious text. It is about culture. In more puritan areas of upper Egypt for example, woman should wear only black in order not to have any light shine through revealing their body shape, and some go further and wear a niqab and black gloves in order not to show any of their beauty to strangers. Even there though, it is optional.

[Abbey Marie]

Not in agreement with the lesson, but it appears that some of this story may have been distorted.
The school district has not backed down from its involvement. Here is a statement that appears on their website.

http://www.lumberton.k12.tx.us/education/components/whatsnew/default.php?sectiondetailid=10420&viewType=detail&id=1500


The link describes the teaching points and perhaps the clothing, but does nothing to explain or defend comments such as Muslim terroists are freedom fighters. On what do you base your claim that the original article was distorted?

[jimnyc]

Read 1 Corinthians 11
On Covering the Head in Worship

2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+11&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28604a)] and the head of Christ is God.4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

No bald women at the Church either! LOL

It's just not followed, at least not around my parts, unless it's very cold of course!

[Abbey Marie]

Read 1 Corinthians 11
On Covering the Head in Worship

2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+11&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28604a)] and the head of Christ is God.4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.


Lol- touche'




Abu Dawood narrates that `Aishah (RAA) said: "Asmaa' the daughter of Abu Bakr (RAA) came to see the Messenger of Allah (SAAWS) wearing a thin dress; so Allah's Messenger (SAAWS) turned away from her and said: O Asmaa', once a woman reaches the age of menstruation, no part of her body should be seen but this-and he pointed to his face and hands.

There is nothing about burqas or niqab in any Islamic religious text. It is about culture. In more puritan areas of upper Egypt for example, woman should wear only black in order not to have any light shine through revealing their body shape, and some go further and wear a niqab and black gloves in order not to show any of their beauty to strangers. Even there though, it is optional.

Ever ask yourself why Arab men can't learn to control themselves? Then maybe your women wouldn't have to walk around looking like zombies. Just sayin'.

[aboutime]

Lol- touche'




Ever ask yourself why Arab men can't learn to control themselves? Then maybe your women wouldn't have to walk around looking like zombies. Just sayin'.


Abbey. If Arab males had their way.
There would be no FEMALES, WOMEN, or GIRLS to contend with since Sheep 4577 never talk back.

[mundame]

Well, in the example I posted, the Catholic mother was in the situation of the local education authority INSISTING that her child dress as a Muslim. Not that it was suggested. Not that any possibility of choice existed. It was DICTATED that she must do so.

I see nothing good about parents losing control over the way they prefer their children to be brought up. Showing 'respect' for an alternative culture is one thing, but having those differences forced upon you, in a manner that nobody but the education authority controls .. that's something else. It's a brand of indoctrination, and State-led at that.

I suggest this: whether we're talking about my example, or the example this thread led with, what we have here is a Left-wing influence using children's sensibilities to promote a Left-wing agenda.

And I say it is NOT ACCEPTABLE.


No, indeed. I agree with you that PC indoctrination is pretty awful and bad.

I am HOPING that this wasn't that in Texas. Rather the opposite, I am hoping: getting kids to dress up in those horror clothes would teach them just how bad a system Islam is. But I don't know what was going on really. It could be as bad as you say, but I hope not. Texas is of course no liberal bastion.....

[Voted4Reagan]

When I was in high school, we had a study about different governments, and about how some countries have religious governments and some have secular governments.
I went to New York City once for a student leadership conference. We held a mock United Nations, with students invited to portray citizens of different countries they had researched in advance. Since I am half-German, I did Germany. My roommate was of Spanish origin, so she did Spain. You were encouraged to dress appropriately, in formal dress of that country.
I have worn a burqua. When I was in college, my college roommate and I joined a group of about two dozen women who wore then during a trip to San Francisco. We walked around in the business district for a while. Most ignored us, but we did get some threats and hostile comments.
Burquas are not very comfortable.

yeah... feeling faceless and objectified and having ones identity and sexuality stripped away by a male dominated theocratic dictatorship makes you want to run right out and put one on...

Were you protesting the treatment of those required to wear it or just doing it because of your love of negative attention seeking?

[Syrenn]

Burkas are entirely cultural. Why do you think they are not seen outside of Taliban controlled Afghanistan?



It is not religious at all. In fact, the Prophet Mohamed (saw) extended what is written about Hijab in the Qur'aan in a well known hadith.

Abu Dawood narrates that `Aishah (RAA) said: "Asmaa' the daughter of Abu Bakr (RAA) came to see the Messenger of Allah (SAAWS) wearing a thin dress; so Allah's Messenger (SAAWS) turned away from her and said: O Asmaa', once a woman reaches the age of menstruation, no part of her body should be seen but this-and he pointed to his face and hands.

There is nothing about burqas or niqab in any Islamic religious text. It is about culture. In more puritan areas of upper Egypt for example, woman should wear only black in order not to have any light shine through revealing their body shape, and some go further and wear a niqab and black gloves in order not to show any of their beauty to strangers. Even there though, it is optional.



they are a religious mandate..... as your quote so nicely points out.


Brukas are not cultural.

[mundame]

The whole point is whether it is dangerous not to wear certain "women clothes."

I go to an Amish market here every week, and of course all those women dress the same and wear head coverings, little net hats. Now, to be Amish, they have to.

But if they are willing to stop being Amish --- and they lose people all the time to the dominant culture, I have known a number myself --- then they are NOT killed, attacked, put in prison, etc. because they don't wear the hat.

But in Iran the police actually stop women on the street and take them to the police station if they are the least bit off in the clothes rules: it's a theocracy. Same in Saudi Arabia. In other Arab countries, you are just raped and beaten up for trying to look Western and not wearing all that hot, difficult, forever-slipping cloth.

There has to be a way women can leave oppressive families and get protection from the law and the society for dressing sensibly, not with all that we-own-you stuff. Otherwise it's the worst kind of oppression and cruelty.

[Drummond]

true....I read recently that an Iranian school had the girls wear bikinis to class so they could experience western culture for the very same reason.......

Is that so ? Do you have a link to offer to illustrate this ?

[Drummond]

Burkas are entirely cultural. Why do you think they are not seen outside of Taliban controlled Afghanistan?

Jafar, you should know better than to post this !! I know that you spent a substantial time in London.

You will therefore know, just as I do, that Muslim women wear both Burkhas and Hijabs there !!

Now, can you honestly say .. EVEN taking into account the Muslim inroads made in the UK in recent years !! .. that wearing these items conforms to LONDON CULTURE ??

NO, OF COURSE NOT. So, how do you account for what Muslim women do, both in London and elsewhere in the UK ??

[mundame]

Fox is now running this story, so it's coverage is growing. Apparently it's a bad curriculum:


Madelyn LeBlanc told Fox News that it was clear her teacher was very uncomfortable lecturing the students.
“I do have a lot of sympathy for her,” the 15-year-old said. “At the very beginning she said she didn’t want to teach it but it was in the curriculum.”
Her mother added that it was her impression that the teacher did not agree with the quote about calling the terrorists freedom fighters and laced her lecture with sarcasm.
During a lesson on Judaism, LeBlanc said the teacher told the class, “Students, I’m supposed to be politically correct and tell you that the Holocaust was not Genocide. It was an ethnic cleansing.”


Fox picked it up because the curriculum DOES teach that the 9/11 hijackers were not terrorists but Freedom Fighters!!!

Good golly Miss Molly. That seriously needs changing.

I don't see that there's a problem with the Holocaust thing, though --- the mom was very upset about that, too, but I can't see it. The Germans certainly wished to try for a genocide: it's in all the documents, there is no question but that they meant to kill all 11 million Jews in Europe, including Russia. They were not able to make that happen, however, so ethnic cleansing is probably a "good" term, maybe I should say correct term. I guess you could say a failed genocide is ethnic cleansing.

This is a bad curriculum. Here's the Fox article: http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/students-told-to-call-9-11-hijackers-freedom-fighters.html

It's not pretty, what's going on there. We are so being subverted by Muslims.

[tailfins]

The whole point is whether it is dangerous not to wear certain "women clothes."

I go to an Amish market here every week, and of course all those women dress the same and wear head coverings, little net hats. Now, to be Amish, they have to.

But if they are willing to stop being Amish --- and they lose people all the time to the dominant culture, I have known a number myself --- then they are NOT killed, attacked, put in prison, etc. because they don't wear the hat.

But in Iran the police actually stop women on the street and take them to the police station if they are the least bit off in the clothes rules: it's a theocracy. Same in Saudi Arabia. In other Arab countries, you are just raped and beaten up for trying to look Western and not wearing all that hot, difficult, forever-slipping cloth.

There has to be a way women can leave oppressive families and get protection from the law and the society for dressing sensibly, not with all that we-own-you stuff. Otherwise it's the worst kind of oppression and cruelty.

Women of unassimilated Tupi tribes walk around buck naked and are considered tribal property. What is your take on that?

[mundame]

Women of unassimilated Tupi tribes walk around buck naked and are considered tribal property. What is your take on that?

Do I have to have an opinion about naked savages?

There is a level of civilization below which people are just not especially politically interesting.

[Robert A Whit]

Fox is now running this story, so it's coverage is growing. Apparently it's a bad curriculum:



Fox picked it up because the curriculum DOES teach that the 9/11 hijackers were not terrorists but Freedom Fighters!!!

Good golly Miss Molly. That seriously needs changing.

I don't see that there's a problem with the Holocaust thing, though --- the mom was very upset about that, too, but I can't see it. The Germans certainly wished to try for a genocide: it's in all the documents, there is no question but that they meant to kill all 11 million Jews in Europe, including Russia. They were not able to make that happen, however, so ethnic cleansing is probably a "good" term, maybe I should say correct term. I guess you could say a failed genocide is ethnic cleansing.

This is a bad curriculum. Here's the Fox article: http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/students-told-to-call-9-11-hijackers-freedom-fighters.html

It's not pretty, what's going on there. We are so being subverted by Muslims.

The Nazis planned to use some of the Jews as slaves to handle farming in Russia.

As to hedging on the term holocaust, this idea is new to me. I guess it depends on how one defines the word.

[tailfins]

Do I have to have an opinion about naked savages?

There is a level of civilization below which people are just not especially politically interesting.

What makes you any better than them? Where is that level? Zero percent assimilated? Thirty percent? Caboclos that register to vote and take a canoe to the polling place? Manaus and Belem are cities with 2.5 and 1 million people respectively that are majority Caboclo. By the way, my kids are considered Tupi/Caboclo and I take your savages crack as a direct insult.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Burkas are entirely cultural. Why do you think they are not seen outside of Taliban controlled Afghanistan?

And you are still a lying little sack of whale droppings, Jahil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa#Burqas_around_the_world
There's 12 that have burqas right there.

dumb ass.

[PostmodernProphet]

Is that so ? Do you have a link to offer to illustrate this ?

I cannot link because its illustrated and your heart would not be able to take it.....


they are a religious mandate..... as your quote so nicely points out.


Brukas are not cultural.

I think I'm leaning toward cultural.....as pointed out the Christian scripture also has a dress code, but over the centuries, culture has dictated if and how it should be followed.....even in the Middle East the burka is only required in those countries where the culture is most rigidly imposed.......women do not wear burkas because Allah demands it.....they wear burkas because the men in their family would beat them to death......that is culture, not religion.......

[mundame]

What makes you any better than them? Where is that level? Zero percent assimilated? Thirty percent? Caboclos that register to vote and take a canoe to the polling place? Manaus and Belem are cities with 2.5 and 1 million people respectively that are majority Caboclo. By the way, my kids are considered Tupi/Caboclo and I take your savages crack as a direct insult.



What makes me better? Well, I'm not a naked savage.......


There's got to be something to be said for that.


You or your family ARE? Darn, tailfins, I would not have supposed that, but the Internet is a weird place.

I'm thinking of you and Amazon anacondas now ------ sort of like the naked statue of Laocoon.

http://academic.shu.edu/honors/laocoon.jpg

[tailfins]

Think of me getting these anaconda boots for my wife:

http://www.lojadebotascountry.com.br/calcados-femininos/13-bota-country-feminina-em-couro-anaconda-legitimo.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cpPYm5wcWeg/TEXzBu6khjI/AAAAAAAAACI/PMAfcTpArdE/s400/Bota+Country+Feminina+em+Couro+Anaconda+Leg%C3%ADt imo+-+Alcalay.jpg

[Drummond]

I cannot link because its illustrated and your heart would not be able to take it.....

... Eh ??

Well ... thanks for a particularly inventive ... evasion ?

Unless you've got a reason to suppose that Jim (or anyone else helping to run this forum) would have a particular objection to your supplying that link, I fail to see what's stopping you.

So, go to it - if you can ... and don't mind Jafar, he's a Hamas supporter ...

[PostmodernProphet]

... Eh ??

Well ... thanks for a particularly inventive ... evasion ?

Unless you've got a reason to suppose that Jim (or anyone else helping to run this forum) would have a particular objection to your supplying that link, I fail to see what's stopping you.

So, go to it - if you can ... and don't mind Jafar, he's a Hamas supporter ...

are you really dimwitted enough not to realize it was a joke?......sorry, I forgot you're British.....you aren't really known for your ability to understand humor.......

[Voted4Reagan]

are you really dimwitted enough not to realize it was a joke?......sorry, I forgot you're British.....you aren't really known for your ability to understand humor.......

4 words for you PMP...

BENNY HILL

MONTY PYTHON




The British have a wonderful sense of humor.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Think of me getting these anaconda boots for my wife:

http://www.lojadebotascountry.com.br/calcados-femininos/13-bota-country-feminina-em-couro-anaconda-legitimo.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cpPYm5wcWeg/TEXzBu6khjI/AAAAAAAAACI/PMAfcTpArdE/s400/Bota+Country+Feminina+em+Couro+Anaconda+Leg%C3%ADt imo+-+Alcalay.jpg

That is a damn nice looking boot. What would that cost?
My wife is not afraid of snakes.;)

[jafar00]

even in the Middle East the burka is only required in those countries where the culture is most rigidly imposed.

As far as I know the Burqa is a Taliban thing which is worn only in Asia and not the Middle East although TIL there is a Jewish sect that wears them in Israel too apparently.

[Voted4Reagan]

you're doing it again Jafar. You are NOT telling the whole truth.

A simple look at Wikipedia speaks volumes.

Weather or not you call it a Niqab or a Burqa is inconsequential. It is a way for Arab/Middle eastern men to marginalize and make their women invisible and faceless.

It's a horror.

This is a Saudi woman in a Niqab... All you are doing is playing regional semantics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Young_Saudi_Arabian_woman_in_Abha.jpg/400px-Young_Saudi_Arabian_woman_in_Abha.jpg

[Robert A Whit]

Looks to me as if those women wearing any of that garb get a huge dose of carbon dioxide. Bad for their health in other words.

[aboutime]

you're doing it again Jafar. You are NOT telling the whole truth.

A simple look at Wikipedia speaks volumes.

Weather or not you call it a Niqab or a Burqa is inconsequential. It is a way for Arab/Middle eastern men to marginalize and make their women invisible and faceless.

It's a horror.

This is a Saudi woman in a Niqab... All you are doing is playing regional semantics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Young_Saudi_Arabian_woman_in_Abha.jpg/400px-Young_Saudi_Arabian_woman_in_Abha.jpg



V4R. Wonder if anyone is old enough to remember how the Saudi's treated our Female Air Force members during the 1st Gulf War, called OPERATION DESERT SHIELD, AND STORM?
Even our American women in uniform were, at first. Required to wear the same head-gear for a while.

[PostmodernProphet]

As far as I know the Burqa is a Taliban thing which is worn only in Asia and not the Middle East although TIL there is a Jewish sect that wears them in Israel too apparently.

????....a lot of the Middle East is IN Asia......

[aboutime]

????....a lot of the Middle East is IN Asia......


PostmodernProphet. Obviously. jafar was talking about the OTHER Asia.

Like drivers who put their RIGHT turn signal on, then turn LEFT.

[gabosaurus]

Weather or not you call it a Niqab or a Burqa is inconsequential. It is a way for Arab/Middle eastern men to marginalize and make their women invisible and faceless.


You should talk to tailfins. His wife is pretty much invisible and faceless. He likes it that way.

[Voted4Reagan]

Here is why Muslim men want to keep their women hidden...

http://www.pics-site.com/wp-content/uploads/Claudia-Lynx-Aishwarya-of-Hollywood-5.jpg

Claudia Lynx (Iranian/Persian)

[Voted4Reagan]

You should talk to tailfins. His wife is pretty much invisible and faceless. He likes it that way.

Are you going to contribute or just troll?

Do you have anything to add to the discussion?

If not just let the adults talk...

Thank you

[gabosaurus]

If you are going to make stupid points, I am going to make stupid replies.

[Voted4Reagan]

If you are going to make stupid points, I am going to make stupid replies.

and would you like to debate womens rights in the middle east and Asia with me?

I'll take the position that Women in the Middle East shouldn't have to wear the Niqab or Burqa.

You defend them wearing it.

In the Cage

You make the thread and Jimmy/Abbey/Kathianne and DMP will moderate. 10 questions with 24hrs to research and answer each.

Winner declared after 10 days.

Do you accept?

[jafar00]

and would you like to debate womens rights in the middle east and Asia with me?

I'll take the position that Women in the Middle East shouldn't have to wear the Niqab or Burqa.


They aren't forced to wear hijab or niqab. I don't know a single veiled woman who does so because she is forced to do so. They do it out of choice. I have two relatives who have wives who wear Niqab against their husband's wishes.

I think your opinion is based purely on the worst of the worst news stories you may have read on the blaze or something. Real life experience is something else.

[Voted4Reagan]

They aren't forced to wear hijab or niqab. I don't know a single veiled woman who does so because she is forced to do so. They do it out of choice. I have two relatives who have wives who wear Niqab against their husband's wishes.

I think your opinion is based purely on the worst of the worst news stories you may have read on the blaze or something. Real life experience is something else.

In Saudi Arabia all 100 % of women want to wear the Niqab, Not drive cars, not wear clothes of their choice..

is that what youre saying Jafar?

[PostmodernProphet]

They aren't forced to wear hijab or niqab. I don't know a single veiled woman who does so because she is forced to do so. They do it out of choice. I have two relatives who have wives who wear Niqab against their husband's wishes.

I think your opinion is based purely on the worst of the worst news stories you may have read on the blaze or something. Real life experience is something else.

interesting....

Based on the above, we cannot say for certain whether a woman who does not wear hijaab will enter Hell, but she deserves the punishment of Allaah because she has disobeyed His command to her.

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/7436

[Abbey Marie]

They aren't forced to wear hijab or niqab. I don't know a single veiled woman who does so because she is forced to do so. They do it out of choice. I have two relatives who have wives who wear Niqab against their husband's wishes.

I think your opinion is based purely on the worst of the worst news stories you may have read on the blaze or something. Real life experience is something else.

As one example, are you familiar with Stockholm Syndrome? There are many reasons people do things that may seem voluntary, but grow out of intimidation nonetheless. Could be personal intimidation, or societal. But I think you already know that.

[jafar00]

In Saudi Arabia all 100 % of women want to wear the Niqab, Not drive cars, not wear clothes of their choice..

is that what youre saying Jafar?

I don't know any Saudi women. KSA is an exception to the rule while they have Wahabi in charge.


interesting....


http://islamqa.info/en/ref/7436

One could also say that despite her ignoring Allah's command, if she is otherwise good she may be forgiven on the day of Judgement.


As one example, are you familiar with Stockholm Syndrome? There are many reasons people do things that may seem voluntary, but grow out of intimidation nonetheless. Could be personal intimidation, or societal. But I think you already know that.

It's true that some may do so out of an obligation to fit in to the society around them, but every women I have asked says they do it out of a dedication to obey God.

[aboutime]

If you are going to make stupid points, I am going to make stupid replies.


Agreed Gabby. But you aren't giving yourself enough credit here.

Most all of us out here who laughingly read your posts already consider..just about everything you say STUPID.

No big surprises in your line above.

[Voted4Reagan]

I don't know any Saudi women. KSA is an exception to the rule while they have Wahabi in charge.



One could also say that despite her ignoring Allah's command, if she is otherwise good she may be forgiven on the day of Judgement.



It's true that some may do so out of an obligation to fit in to the society around them, but every women I have asked says they do it out of a dedication to obey God.

In Iran many wear the Hijab out of FEAR.. no other reason.

your whole argument is invalid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuclPsnoTTc

[PostmodernProphet]

One could also say that despite her ignoring Allah's command, if she is otherwise good she may be forgiven on the day of Judgement.
otherwise good?.....

here's a thought......let's say we have a Palestinian suicide bomber.....a woman.....but just before she pulls the trigger an Israeli security guard makes a grab for her and her headscarf is pulled off......she hasn't had time to ask forgiveness before the bomb goes off.......will Allah forgive her for going uncovered and let her into Paradise?......

[jafar00]

In Iran many wear the Hijab out of FEAR.. no other reason.

your whole argument is invalid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuclPsnoTTc

Iran follows Shia'ism so I have no idea why that is relevant.


otherwise good?.....

here's a thought......let's say we have a Palestinian suicide bomber.....a woman.....but just before she pulls the trigger an Israeli security guard makes a grab for her and her headscarf is pulled off......she hasn't had time to ask forgiveness before the bomb goes off.......will Allah forgive her for going uncovered and let her into Paradise?......

Allah would punish her for the suicide, and for any innocent people killed by the bomb. The hijab coming off would be irrelevant since her last act on this Earth would be one of disbelief (suicide bombing).

[Voted4Reagan]

Iran follows Shia'ism so I have no idea why that is relevant.



Allah would punish her for the suicide, and for any innocent people killed by the bomb. The hijab coming off would be irrelevant since her last act on this Earth would be one of disbelief (suicide bombing).

It is ISLAM weather it is Sunni's or Shiites

Thats like a Catholic saying:

"Oh, it's a Protestant thing, I know nothing about it"

BULLSHIT... THE SIMILARITIES FAR OUTWEIGH THE DIFFERENCES.

sTOP MAKING EXCUSES AND FINDING EXCEPTIONS... YOU CERTAINLY HAVE A LOT OF THEM.

[PostmodernProphet]

Allah would punish her for the suicide, and for any innocent people killed by the bomb. The hijab coming off would be irrelevant since her last act on this Earth would be one of disbelief (suicide bombing).

ignoring Allah's command would be irrelevant?.....

[mundame]

Here is why Muslim men want to keep their women hidden...

http://www.pics-site.com/wp-content/uploads/Claudia-Lynx-Aishwarya-of-Hollywood-5.jpg

Claudia Lynx (Iranian/Persian)




Maybe, but if she wore those clothes outside her home, they'd throw a blanket over her and rush her off to the police station.

[Voted4Reagan]

Maybe, but if she wore those clothes outside her home, they'd throw a blanket over her and rush her off to the police station.

or she'd be Raped in tahrir square...

(like Ms Logan was)

[jafar00]

It is ISLAM weather it is Sunni's or Shiites

Thats like a Catholic saying:

"Oh, it's a Protestant thing, I know nothing about it"

BULLSHIT... THE SIMILARITIES FAR OUTWEIGH THE DIFFERENCES.

sTOP MAKING EXCUSES AND FINDING EXCEPTIONS... YOU CERTAINLY HAVE A LOT OF THEM.

There are huge differences between Iran's Shia'ism and Islam. Their insults against the companions of the Prophet Mohamed (saw) alone bring them outside of the fold.

We don't even pray the same.


ignoring Allah's command would be irrelevant?.....

The other transgressions have far greater weight to them. Being without hijab would be the least of her worries.

[darin]

In Iran many wear the Hijab out of FEAR.. no other reason.

your whole argument is invalid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuclPsnoTTc


Judgement mode=on: Fucking barbarians. :( If they are doing the work of their god, their god is a doofus for caring about stupid stuff.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=621688#post621688)

They aren't forced to wear hijab or niqab. I don't know a single veiled woman who does so because she is forced to do so. They do it out of choice. I have two relatives who have wives who wear Niqab against their husband's wishes.

I think your opinion is based purely on the worst of the worst news stories you may have read on the blaze or something. Real life experience is something else.




interesting....

Based on the above, we cannot say for certain whether a woman who does not wear hijaab will enter Hell, but she deserves the punishment of Allaah because she has disobeyed His command to her.



http://islamqa.info/en/ref/743 (http://islamqa.info/en/ref/7436)

Jahil will now claim the guy who said that is not really Islamic.

[PostmodernProphet]

Jahil will now claim the guy who said that is not really Islamic.

the No True Shi'itsman defense......

[Drummond]

For Jafar .. just one more example of someone 'not really Islamic' ...

The contents of the link speak for themselves - I need not comment further.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-preacher-warns-christian-women-cover-up-or-get-raped/

[aboutime]

I have decided to attempt an end to all responses with jafar, and just make it SIMPLE. "Jafar IS an Asshole!" No other, kind way to say it without lying, or being a hypocrite. PERIOD.

[Drummond]

I have decided to attempt an end to all responses with jafar, and just make it SIMPLE. "Jafar IS an Asshole!" No other, kind way to say it without lying, or being a hypocrite. PERIOD.

Fair enough, and I can't blame you !

My concern, though, is that with evident opposition to him diminishing .. and, bearing in mind, there'll be people who look in on this forum who'll not take an active part in it .. that with that lack of countering participation, he might seem convincing to some.

I think I'll follow your lead to an extent, unless something is posted that really needs to be disproved. Jafar may consider himself to be a pro-Hamas propagandist who knows he needs minimal opposition to succeed. I'm not one to confer such an 'edge' to him.

[mundame]

the No True Shi'itsman defense......


I love that fallacy. The No True Scotsman --- as I heard it a Scotsman informed another man that a True Scotsman would never eat his oatmeal with sugar and milk.

"My Uncle Angus MacDougal in Edinborough eats his oatmeal with sugar and milk," says the other man.

"Then your Uncle Angus is No True Scotsman!!" says the first man.

[aboutime]

Fair enough, and I can't blame you !

My concern, though, is that with evident opposition to him diminishing .. and, bearing in mind, there'll be people who look in on this forum who'll not take an active part in it .. that with that lack of countering participation, he might seem convincing to some.

I think I'll follow your lead to an extent, unless something is posted that really needs to be disproved. Jafar may consider himself to be a pro-Hamas propagandist who knows he needs minimal opposition to succeed. I'm not one to confer such an 'edge' to him.


Sir Drummond. I agree with you about how the opposition is, or might diminish. But we already know. If there are Americans, or Englishmen who easily believe the propaganda from a jafar, and count it as factual. There can be little question that those Americans, or Englishmen are lacking, or terribly challenged in educational experience, or even common sense, logic, and humanity.

All of that is why I so easily point to the failing Educational background of so many Americans today. Most of whom have shown their educational challenges openly...when they voted for Obama. Not once, but Twice.
And they call me IGNORANT, STUPID, and a RACIST.

[jafar00]

Judgement mode=on: Fucking barbarians. :( If they are doing the work of their god, their god is a doofus for caring about stupid stuff.

Case in point...

Would this young lady still become the instant subject of sexual fantasies if she was more modestly attired?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39587-For-Jim-Part-4

Men simply cannot be trusted it seems. Even those who do their best to control their base desires.


For Jafar .. just one more example of someone 'not really Islamic' ...

The contents of the link speak for themselves - I need not comment further.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-preacher-warns-christian-women-cover-up-or-get-raped/

Using a Zionist hate rag to back up an opinion aside, if half of what they report in the article is true, this salafi guy is on the fringe of the fringe on a fringe of a fringe nutters.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Case in point...

Would this young lady still become the instant subject of sexual fantasies if she was more modestly attired?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39587-For-Jim-Part-4

Men simply cannot be trusted it seems. Even those who do their best to control their base desires.



Using a Zionist hate rag to back up an opinion aside, if half of what they report in the article is true, this salafi guy is on the fringe of the fringe on a fringe of a fringe nutters.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

which certainly means that Islamic men should be in complete control of Islamic womens lives... because they can't be trusted.

Your logic is flawed, as is everything else about you.

[mundame]

My concern, though, is that with evident opposition to him diminishing .. and, bearing in mind, there'll be people who look in on this forum who'll not take an active part in it .. that with that lack of countering participation, he might seem convincing to some.

I think I'll follow your lead to an extent, unless something is posted that really needs to be disproved. Jafar may consider himself to be a pro-Hamas propagandist who knows he needs minimal opposition to succeed. I'm not one to confer such an 'edge' to him.


This kind of hired propagandist for whoever is our current enemy is common. I have often seen it in my long career on Internet political groups. I've seen a Russian one, earliest; a Chinese or North Korean one (couldn't tell which: he SAID he was from San Francisco, but he wasn't); many college-kid Serbs all using the same netname; an Iranian who daily posted many fake articles supposedly from the Iranian press..............but in English, all neatly formatted; and now we're getting this guy paid by whatever enemy country, probably Saudi Arabia or Pakistan since poor Afghanistan doesn't seem up to Internet propaganda.

They want dialogue and attention; they get paid by number of posts they make and the replies they get. A guy on Stratfor told me about all this. They want to make it all controversial and stir up doubt, so they can undermine our war effort, whenever war comes.

[tailfins]

This kind of hired propagandist for whoever is our current enemy is common. I have often seen it in my long career on Internet political groups. I've seen a Russian one, earliest; a Chinese or North Korean one (couldn't tell which: he SAID he was from San Francisco, but he wasn't); many college-kid Serbs all using the same netname; an Iranian who daily posted many fake articles supposedly from the Iranian press..............but in English, all neatly formatted; and now we're getting this guy paid by whatever enemy country, probably Saudi Arabia or Pakistan since poor Afghanistan doesn't seem up to Internet propaganda.

They want dialogue and attention; they get paid by number of posts they make and the replies they get. A guy on Stratfor told me about all this. They want to make it all controversial and stir up doubt, so they can undermine our war effort, whenever war comes.

I ran across a Chicom that way. I got his email and sending him emails about Tienanmen Square, calling his "leaders" communist thugs, all to an email with a .cn suffix. He warned me to stop spreading such criminal lies. I replied with a quote of the First Amendment. It was fun to watch this person wet their pants with my emails.

[Voted4Reagan]

Since Muslim men cant control themselves sexually when they see an uncovered woman, maybe it is time to lock all Muslim men away inside a house or prison and let the women dress in western clothes and run the countries they are in.

Obviously the men cant control themselves.... the women would probably do better!

[Marcus Aurelius]

Since Muslim men cant control themselves sexually when they see an uncovered woman, maybe it is time to lock all Muslim men away inside a house or prison and let the women dress in western clothes and run the countries they are in.

Obviously the men cant control themselves.... the women would probably do better!

It is obviously Allah's wish that men punish women for the fact that men cannot control themselves. Don't you know anything?

[Voted4Reagan]

It is obviously Allah's wish that men punish women for the fact that men cannot control themselves. Don't you know anything?

because in the long run it is always someone elses fault that we make mistakes... that is the logic Islam uses.

[PostmodernProphet]

Would this young lady still become the instant subject of sexual fantasies if she was more modestly attired?

what do you have against sexual fantasies?......who would Allah burn in hell, the object of a sexual fantasy or the person who acted one out?.......

[gabosaurus]

It is obviously Allah's wish that men punish women for the fact that men cannot control themselves. Don't you know anything?

Men have been punishing women for the fact that men can't control themselves since the beginning of time.
Don't you know anything?

[tailfins]

Men have been punishing women for the fact that men can't control themselves since the beginning of time.
Don't you know anything?

It wasn't Adam that took the first bite of the forbidden fruit.

[mundame]

It wasn't Adam that took the first bite of the forbidden fruit.


But the guy who pushed it on her was, obviously, male.

[tailfins]

But the guy who pushed it on her was, obviously, male.

That's a very interesting thought. Some people practice witchcraft because they want to worship a female deity, but if they are worshiping Satan, then they are still worshiping a male entity.

[jafar00]

what do you have against sexual fantasies?......who would Allah burn in hell, the object of a sexual fantasy or the person who acted one out?.......

I have no objection to healthy fantasies in the right setting, but when it objectifies and denigrates women, I have an issue with it.

Women are our life partners and more importantly our mothers and the mothers of our children and should be afforded a little more respect than "Phoar, I'd tap that".

[Abbey Marie]

Since Muslim men cant control themselves sexually when they see an uncovered woman, maybe it is time to lock all Muslim men away inside a house or prison and let the women dress in western clothes and run the countries they are in.

Obviously the men cant control themselves.... the women would probably do better!

:clap:

[mundame]

That's a very interesting thought. Some people practice witchcraft because they want to worship a female deity, but if they are worshiping Satan, then they are still worshiping a male entity.


Sure. Satan has always been male, in whatever form, Dark Angel or serpent.

However, I don't think wicca works like that.

That would be Satanism, I think. I'm not much up on all that, but I'm pretty sure wicca is not dealing with Satan, per se. More.......nature goddesses and gods.

[Voted4Reagan]

Men have been punishing women for the fact that men can't control themselves since the beginning of time.
Don't you know anything?

Cant you tell that he was using SARCASM in an analogy to show the flaw in anti-feminist Islamic teachings?

obviously not...

Marcus has stood up for women this whole thread...

Either get up to speed or just go away... the adults are having a Chat.

[Marcus Aurelius]

what do you have against sexual fantasies?......who would Allah burn in hell, the object of a sexual fantasy or the person who acted one out?.......

The woman, obviously. She should know better than to act in a way that would cause a male to lose control of himself. Don't you know anything?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I have no objection to healthy fantasies in the right setting, but when it objectifies and denigrates women, I have an issue with it.

Women are our life partners and more importantly our mothers and the mothers of our children and should be afforded a little more respect than "Phoar, I'd tap that".

Why do YOU get to give a shit about what I fantasize about in my head? None of your f-ing business.

[Drummond]

what do you have against sexual fantasies?......who would Allah burn in hell, the object of a sexual fantasy or the person who acted one out?.......

Besides, I don't doubt that Mohammed had them.

Whether they were of the same type is debatable, though. I would draw Jafar a picture, only I'm sure the response would be one of those 'fun' Fatwa thingies ... !!

[Marcus Aurelius]

Besides, I don't doubt that Mohammed had them.

Whether they were of the same type is debatable, though. I would draw Jafar a picture, only I'm sure the response would be one of those 'fun' Fatwa thingies ... !!

He had them and acted them out, especially with his 9 year old bride.

[Drummond]

I have no objection to healthy fantasies in the right setting, but when it objectifies and denigrates women, I have an issue with it.

Women are our life partners and more importantly our mothers and the mothers of our children and should be afforded a little more respect than "Phoar, I'd tap that".

Better to oppress them, then, instead ??

You'll enjoy this, Jafar -

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-stand-up-against--the-burka-1975108.html


Hard-liners come from left and right. In Italy, a fully veiled woman was fined €500 (£426) and now her husband says he will keep her indoors because he can't have other men looking at her (a fixed prison replaces a mobile one). Sarkozy is all for tough action because he believes the garment "is contrary to the dignity of women", but French legal experts have warned that any outright prohibition would violate the constitution and the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. And so it would.

Which is why even those Britons who patently detest the black shroud have tried, sometimes convolutedly, to defend religious choices made by citizens in the name of their faith. Real liberalism means accepting illiberal choices, they say. Though full of moral intent, these views lack guts and sense and are based on, at best, infrequent and limited contact with European Muslims.

What of the fact that millions of us are against the black covering? And that many supported the French school-uniform proscription? We know there is no Koranic injunction to cover the face, and we watch helplessly as organised brainwashing is leading to the blanking out of female Muslim presence and individuality from the public space. The Oxford theologian and imam Dr Taj Hargey can give you chapter and verse to prove both these points. We say that dress codes can be imposed in public-service interactions for a greater good. That whether opted for by the woman or pushed on her by others, the inherent message of the veiled woman is that femininity is treacherous – which is an evil slur.

It's about the right to choose, say the apologists. Oh yes? Then why are these campaigners not championing the rights of Muslim and non-Muslim women in the West and East not to cover up?

[jafar00]

Better to oppress them, then, instead ??

Opressing women is not the Islamic way. I'm sorry but I have never met a Muslim woman who was forced to cover up.

Why don't you defend the right of those who choose to cover up?

[PostmodernProphet]

I have no objection to healthy fantasies in the right setting, but when it objectifies and denigrates women, I have an issue with it.

Women are our life partners and more importantly our mothers and the mothers of our children and should be afforded a little more respect than "Phoar, I'd tap that".

but apparently the issue you have with it targets the woman instead of the man.....you afford them "respect" by hiding them from sight.......in western culture if someone disrespects a woman we beat the crap out of them....in the Middle East, if someone disrespects a woman, you beat the crap out of the woman......

[jafar00]

but apparently the issue you have with it targets the woman instead of the man.....you afford them "respect" by hiding them from sight.......in western culture if someone disrespects a woman we beat the crap out of them....in the Middle East, if someone disrespects a woman, you beat the crap out of the woman......

As a man married to a veiled woman who does so of her own free will, I can tell you that she is veiled so as to save her beauty for her beloved husband as much as to obey God. One of the things I love her for.

[Marcus Aurelius]

As a man married to a veiled woman who does so of her own free will, I can tell you that she is veiled so as to save her beauty for her beloved husband as much as to obey God. One of the things I love her for.

She is veiled because her man cannot control himself in public, and because she'll get the shit beaten out of her if she shows her ankles.

She is penalized because of your failure as a man.

[PostmodernProphet]

As a man married to a veiled woman who does so of her own free will, I can tell you that she is veiled so as to save her beauty for her beloved husband as much as to obey God. One of the things I love her for.
I suspect you can't even sense the coercion inherent in this statement......

[Voted4Reagan]

As a man married to a veiled woman who does so of her own free will, I can tell you that she is veiled so as to save her beauty for her beloved husband as much as to obey God. One of the things I love her for.

would you encourage her if she chose to NOT wear the items in question?

Would you support her?

[Marcus Aurelius]

would you encourage her if she chose to NOT wear the items in question?

Would you support her?

No, because he'd claim she wasn't really Muslim.

[jafar00]

would you encourage her if she chose to NOT wear the items in question?

Would you support her?

I will not engage in unrealistic hypothetical fantasies. I know my wife. She would never discard her hijab. Her faith is too strong.

.... and I would have no say in the matter. Mediterranean hot blood is all I will say to explain that :D ....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

but apparently the issue you have with it targets the woman instead of the man.....you afford them "respect" by hiding them from sight.......in western culture if someone disrespects a woman we beat the crap out of them....in the Middle East, if someone disrespects a woman, you beat the crap out of the woman......

They beat women because they are cowards. Never let the fact they will commit suicide for Allah convince you that they are brave. They are making a bargain with Allah when doing that. They do that Allah grants them eternal life and tons of sex with multiple women (72) forever!
For them its simply requires faith not courage! They are buying a product that they so desperately want.
Jafar knows this . Its a simple exchange deal not courage as their ignorant supporters claim. I laugh every time a fool supporter claims how brave the ffing dogs are! Any people that choose to deliberately target and murder women and children as their primary targets aren't brave by any reasonable, sane definition of the word!!!!
I have a standing offer to knock any man alive on his ass that has the damn guts stand and to my face tell me they are brave or heroic. Nobody has ever taken me up on it and by God I have been praying for the chance to prove that I make no boast that I will not honor! All the better if the chump is muslim too.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I will not engage in unrealistic hypothetical fantasies. I know my wife. She would never discard her hijab. Her faith is too strong.

.... and I would have no say in the matter. Mediterranean hot blood is all I will say to explain that :D ....

Unrealistic because jahil knows that true muslim wife knows better than to disobey her husband.
A few good wife beatings teaches the muslim women that important lesson, right Jafar??

[Drummond]

I will not engage in unrealistic hypothetical fantasies. I know my wife. She would never discard her hijab. Her faith is too strong.

.... and I would have no say in the matter. Mediterranean hot blood is all I will say to explain that :D ....

Taking this on its face value, you must be saying either or both of the following:-

1. Your wife wears what she does out of a sense of slavery to her religion .. and not because she considers she has a personal choice in the matter ..

2. Considering you're actually from Australia (.. yes ?) .. I'm taking it that your wife lives in Australia, too. So, she's showing a level of contempt for the society she is a part of, instead preferring to make those around her tolerate her faith-based representation rather than try to fit in. In other words, she wants OTHERS to bend to HER, and if she would 'never' discard her hijab, we have in your wife a Muslim uninterested in compromise. With you (by your own admission) and with others.

Or to put it another way, she's a Muslim.

Some of us, Jafar, want OUR way of life preserved. I wish you could understand that.

[jafar00]

Taking this on its face value, you must be saying either or both of the following:-

1. Your wife wears what she does out of a sense of slavery to her religion .. and not because she considers she has a personal choice in the matter ..

Yes, she does so because she and many other Muslims are "slaves" to God. We submit to God's will. Do you object to our right to follow our religion?


2. Considering you're actually from Australia (.. yes ?) .. I'm taking it that your wife lives in Australia, too. So, she's showing a level of contempt for the society she is a part of, instead preferring to make those around her tolerate her faith-based representation rather than try to fit in. In other words, she wants OTHERS to bend to HER, and if she would 'never' discard her hijab, we have in your wife a Muslim uninterested in compromise. With you (by your own admission) and with others.

Well, that's an eye opener. Your objection to Hijab is not that a woman chooses to cover up but that you see it as a threat to YOUR way of life? Can't a woman fit in but still dress modestly? Must a woman wear a bikini to the beach or is a "burkhini" acceptable?

I have a hard time getting my head around the concept of her bending others to her will just by wearing what she wants to wear.

It's contemptuous of you to force her to "fit in".


Or to put it another way, she's a Muslim.

Some of us, Jafar, want OUR way of life preserved. I wish you could understand that.

So live your way of life as you wish. I fail to see how a strip of cloth is a threat to that. Unless you are afraid that more women will choose to cover up giving you less opportunities to perve on them?

[Drummond]

Yes, she does so because she and many other Muslims are "slaves" to God. We submit to God's will. Do you object to our right to follow our religion?

Choice of religion, your right to choose, isn't the issue. However, you have made my real point for me. You see nothing wrong with applying the concept of slavery to religion.

This speaks of the underlying brutality of the creed, doesn't it ? And, perhaps, this helps to explain the arrogant mindset which Muslims apply to their furtherance of Islam as well .. that of forcing subservience to it. Little wonder, isn't it, Jafar, that the likes of Anjem Choudary are inspired to a form of 'evangelism' where they want the entire WORLD to SUBMIT to Sharia Law, when the very underpinning creed is one where its adherents embrace being 'enslaved' to it !!!!

Brutality. Subservience. 'Might is Right''.

How instructive, Jafar. Isn't it ?


Well, that's an eye opener. Your objection to Hijab is not that a woman chooses to cover up but that you see it as a threat to YOUR way of life? Can't a woman fit in but still dress modestly? Must a woman wear a bikini to the beach or is a "burkhini" acceptable?

See my previous reply. I was concerned with the characteristic arrogance implicit in the mode of dress, and the implied DEMAND of acceptance, and of its being an incursive intrusion into society. Islamic women wearing their Burkhas, Hijabs .. whatever .. INSISTING that those around them include this as part of the social scene, regardless of anyone else's sensibilities.


I have a hard time getting my head around the concept of her bending others to her will just by wearing what she wants to wear.

She is insisting that what she chooses results in total acceptance by all those around her ... it's HER will, HER preference, over everyone else's.

She is in effect saying, 'I demand that you accept, without complaint or adverse thought, whatever I impose upon your environment ... I will compromise for nobody, but YOU must compromise in favour of MY choice.


It's contemptuous of you to force her to "fit in".

You've got it the wrong way around.

Jafar, are you telling me that there are no Islamic societies out there where women can be arrested for dressing in too Westernised a style ? REALLY ?? Because, here's the arrogance of it. Your Hijab-wearing wife will INSIST she wears her Islamic garb, and that others accept it. You said it yourself ... she wouldn't compromise on that. However, Islamic societies WILL insist on deference to their preferred dress code, by total contrast to that.

Sheer bloody, pushy, arrogance .. the lot of it ....


So live your way of life as you wish. I fail to see how a strip of cloth is a threat to that. Unless you are afraid that more women will choose to cover up giving you less opportunities to perve on them?

There it is, right there, Jafar. A moral judgment made against me, that being PURELY OF YOUR OWN INVENTION, aimed at my perspective on women's dress .. in order to arrogantly try to get me to bend to your own worldview. And, since that invention came from YOUR mind, not MINE, what does that really say ? H'mm ?

Says it all.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Yes, she does so because she and many other Muslims are "slaves" to God. We submit to God's will. Do you object to our right to follow our religion?

So, it's God's will that you beat women who show their ankles in public?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvLrSCZC3aU


http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/morocco-pious-muslims-stone-and-beat-woman-wearing-dress-they-thought-too-revealing/question-2653691/?link=ibaf&q=muslim%20woman%20beaten%20over%20dress
Morocco: Pious Muslims stone and beat woman wearing dress they thought too revealing

[aboutime]

So, it's God's will that you beat women who show their ankles in public?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvLrSCZC3aU


Marcus. jafar sounds more like Obama every day. Replace the word religion from jafar with George W. Bush, and it becomes the perfect BLAME GAME that can't be beat.
Jafar is NOT permitted to speak negatively, or against his religion of Non-Peace that punishes women. So he must defend it or become treasonous in his words and a target for those who would kill him for speaking NON-Peace in Reverse.