OK, take a look at where the workers went to

[Robert A Whit]

This my friends is the modern factory. Take a good look up and down the aisles at all the humans. Oops, those are the robots I spoke of before that do the job of many humans and don't get tired, go to the toilet or the lunch room. They don't get sick, take family leave and so on.

Enjoy watching a lot of work get done and of course few hu mans work there. American factories are in the modern age.


http://youtu.be/VpkzIBEEg-g

[Kathianne]

This my friends is the modern factory. Take a good look up and down the aisles at all the humans. Oops, those are the robots I spoke of before that do the job of many humans and don't get tired, go to the toilet or the lunch room. They don't get sick, take family leave and so on.

Enjoy watching a lot of work get done and of course few hu mans work there. American factories are in the modern age.


http://youtu.be/VpkzIBEEg-g

Should it be outlawed? Was the mass assembly line? Should it have been? That one lacks the imagination to see what may lie ahead or entertain the possibilities of such, lies the way of destruction. Call them Luddites.

[Robert A Whit]

Should it be outlawed? Was the mass assembly line? Should it have been? That one lacks the imagination to see what may lie ahead or entertain the possibilities of such, lies the way of destruction. Call them Luddites.

Question? How did my type style get changed to italic on the post you replied with?

Should what get outlawed? Robots you mean? Machines have long done the work of humans. No, we should invent more, embrace them, have humans using their brains and not brawn.

I suspect that the inventor of that automobile has plenty of imagination.

A very early machine was the sharp stick. Used as a tool to plant seeds, it was wonderful.

When I owned a machine shop, I wish I had then the time I have now since even then I marveled at the very first screw. The screw is behind the precision of many machines.

[Kathianne]

Question? How did my type style get changed to italic on the post you replied with? there's Robert, with the really important question, right up front. Answer: I don't know nor care.


Should what get outlawed? Robots you mean? Machines have long done the work of humans. No, we should invent more, embrace them, have humans using their brains and not brawn.

I suspect that the inventor of that automobile has plenty of imagination.

A very early machine was the sharp stick. Used as a tool to plant seeds, it was wonderful.

When I owned a machine shop, I wish I had then the time I have now since even then I marveled at the very first screw. The screw is behind the precision of many machines.

Robert, you are the Luddite, unless you are attempting to be the tech guru. Either way, you lose.

[Robert A Whit]

[QUOTE=Robert A Whit;619468]Question? How did my type style get changed to italic on the post you replied with? [/quote[ there's Robert, with the really important question, right up front. Answer: I don't know nor care.

Robert, you are the Luddite, unless you are attempting to be the tech guru. Either way, you lose.

Ending all speculation as to who the sexist actually is. I ask you, plead with you, please end being so snotty. It does you no good and if you think it does me good, it does not.

[Robert A Whit]

For the record, I have no clue at all why Kathianne decided to call me a luddite. I am if anything in favor of even more use of machines rather than less of them.

Seems she lurched into the gear that caused her to claim i am anti machine.

What Tesla Motors has accomplished is excellent in my view.

[Voted4Reagan]

Liberals will try and Unionize the Robots into the UAW as the RWA

Robotic Workers of America... And they'll be expected to vote Liberal

[KarlMarx]

I'm afraid that is where it is headed and not just in manufacturing, but, entertainment as well.

I have a theory that, eventually, CGI technology will get to the point where you won't be able to distinguish between a CGI image and the real thing. Hollywood will get the idea that instead of paying multi-million dollar actors, they could produce CGI actors for a fraction of the cost (plus they would never age!). Then watch out... Max Headroom will be the next big star

[Voted4Reagan]

Max was pretty cool.....

but dont look for it too soon....

But it may happen

[tailfins]

If you paint robots black they will quit working.

[Voted4Reagan]

If you paint robots black they will quit working.

that was uncalled for

[tailfins]

that was uncalled for

I was making fun of the stereotype, not the race. Think carefully.

[hjmick]

To answer the, obviously, most important question in the thread thus far...

Your post was changed to italics automatically as a result of the quote function.

[Kathianne]

To answer the, obviously, most important question in the thread thus far...

Your post was changed to italics automatically as a result of the quote function.

Ssshhhh

[gabosaurus]

If you paint robots black they will quit working.

If we import Brazilian robots, will they demand banana breaks and siestas at 2 p.m. every day?

[Robert A Whit]

To answer the, obviously, most important question in the thread thus far...

Your post was changed to italics automatically as a result of the quote function.

Thank you very much. Apparently Kathianne did not know that. Surely she would have explained it to me as you just did.

[Robert A Whit]

If you paint robots black they will quit working.

Since I have seen all the replies to your comment, not much to add. Tesla Motors uses Red Robots, and seem to work well.

[Supposn]

This my friends is the modern factory. Take a good look up and down the aisles at all the humans. Oops, those are the robots I spoke of before that do the job of many humans and don't get tired, go to the toilet or the lunch room. They don't get sick, take family leave and so on.

Enjoy watching a lot of work get done and of course few hu mans work there. American factories are in the modern age.


http://youtu.be/VpkzIBEEg-g

Robert, regardless of how few workers are in a factory, I prefer they be located within our borders.</SPAN></SPAN>

The production line robot must be updated, maintained, and monitored. The produced items were designed and proto-types were created prior to full scale mass production. The factory building must be maintained. Some of these robots are super vulnerable to dust.</SPAN>
</SPAN>
The jobs supporting those factories and their automated production lines are often well paying jobs. Regardless of what the jobs pay, the production supporting enterprises and labor are often sourced from the same nation that performing the actual production.</SPAN>
</SPAN>
Anyone who contends that the national sources of production are inconsequential because it has become more automated is foolishly disregarding what to our decline of manufacturing has cost us.</SPAN></SPAN>

Refer to:</SPAN></SPAN>
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39068-Reduce-the-trade-deficit-increase-GDP-amp-median-wage</SPAN></SPAN> (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39068-Reduce-the-trade-deficit-increase-GDP-amp-median-wage)</SPAN>

or to</SPAN></SPAN>
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation’s-GDPs</SPAN></SPAN> (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation's-GDPs)</SPAN>

or Google: “wikipedia, import certificates “. </SPAN></SPAN>

Respectfully, Supposn</SPAN></SPAN>

[Robert A Whit]

If you paint robots black they will quit working.

When I worked at the building, known then as GM where we made the mid range buick, olds and pontiac and Chevy and GM trucks, you could count on being paid on Friday and on Monday something like half the negroes would not show up. I guess they spent their paychecks on booze and women and needed to take a day or two off. I swore then that I would not purchase cars made on Monday or Tuesday.

I have to admit that though I spent only 3 months working for GM in that factory, I found out that management really wanted to produce great cars. Tesla by taking over a state of the art factory really has it made. I believe of all electric cars, they produce the best.

[Robert A Whit]

Robert, regardless of how few workers are in a factory, I prefer they be located within our borders.

The production line robot must be updated, maintained, and monitored. The produced items were designed and proto-types were created prior to full scale mass production. The factory building must be maintained. Some of these robots are super vulnerable to dust.

The jobs supporting those factories and their automated production lines are often well paying jobs. Regardless of what the jobs pay, the production supporting enterprises and labor are often sourced from the same nation that performing the actual production.

Anyone who contends that the national sources of production are inconsequential because it has become more automated is foolishly disregarding what to our decline of manufacturing has cost us.

Refer to:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39068-Reduce-the-trade-deficit-increase-GDP-amp-median-wage

or to
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation’s-GDPs (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation's-GDPs)

or Google: “wikipedia, import certificates “.

Respectfully, Supposn

The Tesla plant is not far from my office. I suppose in 7 -8 minutes, i can be parked in that familiar parking lot. I once worked at that plant.

I can't imagine dust is that much a problem there. This factory is at least 600 miles north of Mexico. I plan to check to find out if I can tour the plant. If they will allow tours, I will try to tell the forum what I found out. Having worked in that building, I think I can see the improvements easily. Around this part of CA, clean rooms are common. Even when I worked there in 1964, I never noticed a dust problem. I believe that GDP can be raised by humans or robots. I believe your points are well crafted and thus agreed with by this poster. I am not sure if Tesla imports much that is in those cars.

[gabosaurus]

I would rather have work completed by robots or machines then sending it outside our borders to be done. Any work sent outside our borders and then brought back in should be charged an import tax.

[fj1200]

Refer to:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39068-Reduce-the-trade-deficit-increase-GDP-amp-median-wage

or to
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation’s-GDPs (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation's-GDPs)

or Google: “wikipedia, import certificates “.

Respectfully, Supposn

Still peddling refuted posits I see.

[fj1200]

I believe your points are well crafted and thus agreed with by this poster.

I thought you were a free trading small government type. :dunno:


I would rather have work completed by robots or machines then sending it outside our borders to be done. Any work sent outside our borders and then brought back in should be charged an import tax.

I prefer free trade and the gains of comparative advantage but that's just me. Now if only we could get Congress to repeal the various laws and regulations that actually inhibit our global competitiveness rather than hoping just one more new program and government regulation will solve our problems. :rolleyes:

[Supposn]

I would rather have work completed by robots or machines then sending it outside our borders to be done. Any work sent outside our borders and then brought back in should be charged an import tax.

Gabosau, I’m a proponent of import Certificates, (ICs).</SPAN>

All of the ENTIRE direct expenses due this trade policy proposal are immediately funded by exporters of USA goods who will choose to invest the cash and are motivated by their prospective profits from their additional investment. Inevitably all of this proposal’s expenses will be borne by USA’s final purchasers of imported goods.</SPAN>

The proposal is market driven, denying any single entity or groups, (including even the federal government) from acquiring any discretion of policy with regard to this trade proposal. Federal assessing the value of goods at USA ports of entry or exits expressed in U.S. dollars is a technical rather than a policy determination.</SPAN>

The trade policy would not (as tariffs do) produce any net tax revenue for our federal budget. It acts as an indirect but extremely effective subsidy of USA exports. This (rather than additional tax revenue would produce more and higher paying USA jobs thus (I’m of the opinion) it’s of superior economic benefit to our nation.</SPAN>

Refer to:</SPAN>
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39068-Reduce-the-trade-deficit-increase-GDP-amp-median-wage</SPAN> (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39068-Reduce-the-trade-deficit-increase-GDP-amp-median-wage)
or to</SPAN>
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation’s-GDPs</SPAN> (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation's-GDPs)

or Google: “wikipedia, import certificates “. </SPAN>

Respectfully, Supposn</SPAN>

[fj1200]

Refer to:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39068-Reduce-the-trade-deficit-increase-GDP-amp-median-wage
or to
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation’s-GDPs (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39311-Trade-deficits-are-ALWAYS-detrimental-to-their-nation's-GDPs)

or Google: “wikipedia, import certificates “.

Respectfully, Supposn


Still peddling refuted posits I see.

I think a couple of those threads up there have a few open questions and issues looking for your attention.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Robert A Whit http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=647301#post647301)
I believe your points are well crafted and thus agreed with by this poster.



I thought you were a free trading small government type. :dunno:


I thought you were a free trading small government type.

I am. What point he made do you accuse of being not free trading and big government?

[fj1200]

I am. What point he made do you accuse of being not free trading and big government?

Back to the basics? Free trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade):

Free trade is a policy by which a government does not discriminate against imports or interfere with exports by applying tariffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs) (to imports) or subsidies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidies) (to exports) or quotas. According to the law of comparative advantage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage), the policy permits trading partners mutual gains from trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gains_from_trade) of goods and services.

Import certificates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_Certificates):

Import Certificates are a proposed mechanism to implement balanced trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_trade), and eliminate a country's trade deficit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_deficit).

It sure appears that the government is discriminating against imports by mandating that they be equal in value to exports. A trading regime that, admittedly uses a market based device, does not make the regime itself free market. BTW, if I'm not mistaken even you disagreed with him in his two aforementioned threads.

[jafar00]

$50k for one of those? It's almost worth taking out a car loan for one if it means not buying petrol again. :)

[Robert A Whit]

Back to the basics? Free trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade):


Import certificates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_Certificates):


It sure appears that the government is discriminating against imports by mandating that they be equal in value to exports. A trading regime that, admittedly uses a market based device, does not make the regime itself free market. BTW, if I'm not mistaken even you disagreed with him in his two aforementioned threads.

My comment was about his remarks and not his links. I do not see what IC would do other than make a few rich. But HIS actual written points were well crafted and I do agree.

Where he and I don't agree is IC and his tampering with the market forces.

[Supposn]

Back to the basics? Free trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade):


Import certificates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_Certificates):


It sure appears that the government is discriminating against imports by mandating that they be equal in value to exports. A trading regime that, admittedly uses a market based device, does not make the regime itself free market. BTW, if I'm not mistaken even you disagreed with him in his two aforementioned threads.

FJ1200, I am shocked that you consider a nation’s adoption of an Import Certificate policy as citizens attempt to enact a policy that’s in their nation’s best interests. What an illogical goal for national policy.</SPAN>

The comparative advantages of a nation often converge but on some issues may diverge from the comparative advantage of its enterprises.</SPAN>
I’m a populist and I do not owe allegiance to corporations which by their definition owe their allegiance to whoever are the shareholders of the common stock. My allegiance is to my nation and corporations’ share holders are a minority of my nation’s population.</SPAN>

It’s ironic that what you consider as corporations’ practices to their comparative advantage are neither to their comparative advantage or disadvantage. It is what they must do to not put themselves at a COMPETITIVE disadvantage. They must avail themselves of goods at the least price to retain their competitive position with all other USA enterprises our domestic market. If this results in USA’s trade deficit that is not of direct or of full cost to our enterprises.</SPAN>

Due to the trade deficit our nation has lesser jobs and to some extent that causes USA’s lesser jobs at lesser wage scales than otherwise. Although pure free global trade of goods is not and cannot be of competitive advantage to USA’s enterprises within our domestic markets, it is certainly net detrimental to our nation’s economy.

Our nation does not benefit from fewer jobs at wages with lesser purchasing power or increased rates of unemployment or increased poverty all due to our trade deficit of goods.</SPAN>

Respectfully, Supposn</SPAN></SPAN>

[fj1200]

My comment was about his remarks and not his links. I do not see what IC would do other than make a few rich. But HIS actual written points were well crafted and I do agree.

Where he and I don't agree is IC and his tampering with the market forces.

OK. :tips hat:

[fj1200]

FJ1200, I am shocked that you consider a nation’s adoption of an Import Certificate policy as citizens attempt to enact a policy that’s in their nation’s best interests. What an illogical goal for national policy.

The comparative advantages of a nation often converge but on some issues may diverge from the comparative advantage of its enterprises.
I’m a populist and I do not owe allegiance to corporations which by their definition owe their allegiance to whoever are the shareholders of the common stock. My allegiance is to my nation and corporations’ share holders are a minority of my nation’s population.

It’s ironic that what you consider as corporations’ practices to their comparative advantage are neither to their comparative advantage or disadvantage. It is what they must do to not put themselves at a COMPETITIVE disadvantage. They must avail themselves of goods at the least price to retain their competitive position with all other USA enterprises our domestic market. If this results in USA’s trade deficit that is not of direct or of full cost to our enterprises.

Due to the trade deficit our nation has lesser jobs and to some extent that causes USA’s lesser jobs at lesser wage scales than otherwise. Although pure free global trade of goods is not and cannot be of competitive advantage to USA’s enterprises within our domestic markets, it is certainly net detrimental to our nation’s economy.

Our nation does not benefit from fewer jobs at wages with lesser purchasing power or increased rates of unemployment or increased poverty all due to our trade deficit of goods.

Respectfully, Supposn

I have a conundrum here; shall I point out every false premise and unsupported statement that you've made in the hopes that you will consider my points or shall I not because you will revert to restating excerpts? Considering that we've gone over everything in your other threads and you've not followed up I'm leaning towards the latter. Nevertheless I think I've identified the key paragraph (see bold), where you restate your previously refuted posit, upon which all of your other claims hang.

Should other nations have considered such an approach for all those years where the US ran a trade surplus? And honestly, most of your statements make so little sense that it would be tough to break them down.

[Supposn]

My comment was about his, [Supposn's] remarks and not his links. I do not see what IC would do other than make a few rich. But HIS actual written points were well crafted and I do agree.

Where he and I don't agree is IC and his tampering with the market forces.

ICs behave as an indirect but effective subsidy of USA exported goods. </SPAN></SPAN>

Robert A. Whit, transferable Import Certificates, (ICs) are issued by the U.S. Treasury only to exporters of USA goods that choose, (not required) to have their goods assessed and pay the federal assessment fees.
</SPAN></SPAN>
The assessment fees only cover the direct federal expenditures due to the IC policy. It’s reasonable to expect that the open market value of transferable IC’s would be worth more than their price to exporters of USA goods.
From left-wingers’ viewpoints (who have no confidence in open competitive markets forces), this appears to be an unjustified boon for exporters of USA goods.</SPAN></SPAN>

Since there is no competitive advantage between exporters of USA goods, exporters who chose not to pass their lesser net costs as price deduction to their foreign purchasers of USA goods would be putting themselves at a competitive disadvantage.
Furthermore we cannot expect foreign purchasers of USA goods to all be completely unsophisticated. Within a competitive global market we can expect foreign purchasers of USA goods to pressure for price reductions of those goods.</SPAN></SPAN>

The lesser net transaction expenses of USA exported goods are not a boon to their exporters but they’re an indirect but very effective subsidy of USA’s exported goods.</SPAN></SPAN>

Respectfully, Supposn</SPAN></SPAN>