Reagan vs. Obama: The record

[red states rule]

Over the last 4 years, the liberal media have compared Obama to Pres Lincoln, FDR, and Teddy Roosevelt. As Obama's base in the liberal media media continue to tell us about the marvelous Obama "recovery" we are in it is only a matter of time before they try and compare Obama to Pres Reagan (the best President in my lifetime)

Here is an excellent article comparing Pres Reagan and Obama and of course get ready for the libs here to try a rewrite history to try and diminish those eight years of record peacetime economic growth






Today, the present economy is weak. Until these last few months when the economy actually declined, we had been growing at 2 percent a year, the same low rate of growth France has maintained for the past 20 years. Even before the present negative numbers the economy was not growing fast enough to create enough jobs for young Americans beginning their lives.


The American economy has been technically in “recovery” since July 2009. It has now been 31 months since the bottom of the recession. It doesn’t feel like much of a “recovery” for the 12.2 million Americans unable to find work or the 2.6 million Americans who have stopped looking for work.


Since the bottom of the recession the GDP has increased an average of only 2.0 percent quarterly and only 3.8 million jobs have been restored.


Fourteen and a half million Americans are today out of work because the federal government followed the policies of Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid rather than Ronald Reagan. But if this recovery had been as robust as the one Reagan oversaw beginning in November, 1982—if it had grown an average of 4 percent a year rather than only 2 percent a year there would be millions more Americans at work today.


Reagan cut income tax rates across the board for all Americans. He expanded 401(k) accounts and IRAs so Americans could save for their retirement. He indexed the federal income tax code so the government would no longer “profit” from inflation that it created. He reduced federal spending from what Jimmy Carter had planned. The federal government stopped printing so much money, and inflation — which had run at 13.6 percent in 1980 and 10.4 percent in 1981 — fell to 4.3 percent by 1984. He worked to de-regulate airlines, railroads, and bus travel, saving American consumers billions.


Less regulation, reducing the growth of government spending, lower tax rates and a stable currency led to a recovery that created 3 million jobs in the first year. In his first year of “recovery” Obama’s policies created a net loss of 201,000 jobs. In the second year of recovery Reagan’s policies created another 4.1 million jobs, Obama only 1.4 million. In years three Reagan created 9.7 million jobs and Obama 3 million.


It has now been three years and seven months since the recovery began in July 2009 and Obama’s policies have created 3.86 million jobs. In the same time – from November 1982 to November, 1985—with the American population having fully 77 million fewer people than at present, the Reagan economic policies created 9.6 million jobs. The economy grew 8.9 percent in that time under Obama and 18.5 percent with Reagan.


Obama faced a recession when he was elected. What did he do? He immediately had the federal government spend $1 trillion in stimulus spending. He raised 20 taxes in Obamacare. He piled new regulations on energy, and stopped new jobs by shutting down possible drilling in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico. He added a new entitlement spending program—Obamacare—without reforming any existing programs.

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/02/06/norquist-reagan-vs-obama-the-record/

[April15]

Over the last 4 years, the liberal media have compared Obama to Pres Lincoln, FDR, and Teddy Roosevelt. As Obama's base in the liberal media media continue to tell us about the marvelous Obama "recovery" we are in it is only a matter of time before they try and compare Obama to Pres Reagan (the best President in my lifetime)

Here is an excellent article comparing Pres Reagan and Obama and of course get ready for the libs here to try a rewrite history to try and diminish those eight years of record peacetime economic growth

The Ray Goon was quite possibly the worst president to ever sit in the oval office. You can paint me a lib if you wish but the truth is as follows.
Mission Accomplished: The Reagan Occupation and the Destruction of the American Middle
Class

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3310

DAVID MICHAEL GREEN FOR BUZZFLASH

Eighty years ago, something occurred in America that was never supposed to happen. An
aristocrat came to the presidency and engineered a policy revolution that created a broad and
prosperous middle class where it had not existed as such before.

To do this, Franklin Roosevelt and his party had to rewrite the existing rules of wealth
redistribution in the United States such that the traditionally fantastically wealthy overclass
(which had grown even fatter as the industrialism of the prior century concentrated wealth yet
further) would become merely tremendously wealthy from that point forward, in order to leave
enough for others to live a decent life.

Needless to say, this rankled the country club set, but, remarkably, they more or less made peace
with this development during the early decades of the post-war era, and largely cooperated with
the new economic order. So did their political representatives. The Eisenhower administration
was the first chance after twenty years of the New Deal to dismantle the newly created American
welfare state, and Ike not only refused to take that opportunity, but famously labeled those in his
party who wanted to as “stupid."

If Eisenhower, in his gray suit, black-and-white photos and de rigueur businessman’s hat from
the era seems quaint today, so does his political restraint. By the 1980s that was ancient history,
and remains so to this day, including through (and via) two Democratic presidencies now.

If Americans understood the real ambitions of Ronald Reagan and his puppeteers, and if they
knew the degree to which the supposed patriotism of those folks extended beyond falsity and into
the far darker waters of being an irritating irrelevance put on purely for show, then they would
not only stop seeing Reagan as some sort of national hero, but would also understand that he
instead launched a process far more equivalent to an invasion and occupation of this country.
...

(rest at link)

David Michael Green is a professor of political science at Hofstra University in New York. He is
delighted to receive readers' reactions to his articles (dmg@regressiveantidote.net), but regrets
that time constraints do not always allow him to respond. More of his work can be found at his
website, www.regressiveantidote.net (http://www.regressiveantidote.net).

[aboutime]

April15. Guess you saw your shadow on Feb 2nd.

[Kathianne]

April 15th seems to have posted a rant, not a discussion piece.

Yeah, one could take it apart, issue by issue, but why bother?

[glockmail]

...wealth redistribution.... Oh, you're a liberal all right. :slap:

[aboutime]

April 15th seems to have posted a rant, not a discussion piece.

Yeah, one could take it apart, issue by issue, but why bother?


Kathianne. No need to take anything apart that April15 brings here. It's just another attempt from a Bully, who throws stones, buried in Mudballs...then runs home to Mommy crying that NOBODY LIKES HIM.

[Robert A Whit]

Over the last 4 years, the liberal media have compared Obama to Pres Lincoln, FDR, and Teddy Roosevelt. As Obama's base in the liberal media media continue to tell us about the marvelous Obama "recovery" we are in it is only a matter of time before they try and compare Obama to Pres Reagan (the best President in my lifetime)

Here is an excellent article comparing Pres Reagan and Obama and of course get ready for the libs here to try a rewrite history to try and diminish those eight years of record peacetime economic growth

I am proud to mention that I have been at the Ronald Magnus Reagan library two times. I have to drive for close to 8 hours to get there. And 8 hours back. I am proud that I have stood next to the tomb of Ronald Magnus Reagan.

I call him our best ever president.

He had nuclear staring him down.

He won.

He had a terrible economy trying to ruin his day.

He won.

He had to deliver freedom to millions.

He won.

I dare any of us to speak of any president that did more.

When FDR was president, we had a frozen economy. Every dime brought in by government went to war. And how many died in FDRs war?

FDR got millions killed.

Ronald Magnus Reagan never did.

He won.

[Robert A Whit]

Clearly, big oil profited due to FDR's war.
Let's not forget those tycoons like Henry Kaiser who built the Hoover dam and hundreds or maybe thousands of ships for the FDR war.

Who can forget the tycoon making airplanes, ships and of course those bombs.

Cripes, maybe Reagan should have helped the rich.

Why not?

FDR did.

[gabosaurus]

Reagan became president for much the same reason that Obama did: He followed one of the 20th Century's most inept administrations and rode the backlash into office.
Reagan began his term of office as an idiot and ended as a cabbage.

[red states rule]

April 15th seems to have posted a rant, not a discussion piece.

Yeah, one could take it apart, issue by issue, but why bother?

That would require some effort on his part. I lived during the Carter and Reagan years and the failure of Carter was clear in the election of 1980. The success of Reagan was clear when America re-elected him with a 49 state blowout win over Walter Mondale

Given the division of the nation I doubt if I will ever see that happen again in my lifetime

[red states rule]

Reagan became president for much the same reason that Obama did: He followed one of the 20th Century's most inept administrations and rode the backlash into office.
Reagan began his term of office as an idiot and ended as a cabbage.

Given the fact you were either in your mom's womb or in diapers during the Reagan years - you are basing your opinions on the usual liberal sources and not doing any research on your own

Here is a portion on a long article on the Reagan years (with facts from the IRS and OMB)





snip

HOW DID REAGAN'S POLICIES AFFECT ECONOMIC GROWTH?
Despite the steep recession in 1982--brought on by tight money policies that were instituted to squeeze out the historic inflation level of the late 1970s--by 1983, the Reagan policies of reducing taxes, spending, regulation, and inflation were in place. The result was unprecedented economic growth:



This economic boom lasted 92 months without a recession, from November 1982 to July 1990, the longest period of sustained growth during peacetime and the second-longest period of sustained growth in U.S. history. The growth in the economy lasted more than twice as long as the average period of expansions since World War II.10
(http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122270)
The American economy grew by about one-third in real inflation-adjusted terms. This was the equivalent of adding the entire economy of East and West Germany or two-thirds of Japan's economy to the U.S. economy.11 (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122274)
From 1950 to 1973, real economic growth in the U.S. economy averaged 3.6 percent per year. From 1973 to 1982, it averaged only 1.6 percent. The Reagan economic boom restored the more usual growth rate as the economy averaged 3.5 percent in real growth from the beginning of 1983 to the end of 1990.12 (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122278)

HOW DID REAGAN'S POLICIES AFFECT THE FEDERAL TAX BURDEN?

Perhaps the greatest myth concerning the 1980s is that Ronald Reagan slashed taxes so dramatically for the rich that they no longer have paid their fair share. The flaw in this myth is that it mixes tax rates with taxes actually paid and ignores the real trend of taxation:



In 1991, after the Reagan rate cuts were well in place, the top 1 percent of taxpayers in income paid 25 percent of all income taxes; the top 5 percent paid 43 percent; and the bottom 50 percent paid only 5 percent.13 (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122284) To suggest that this distribution is unfair because it is too easy on upper-income groups is nothing less than absurd.
The proportion of total income taxes paid by the top 1 percent rose sharply under President Reagan, from 18 percent in 1981 to 28 percent in 1988.14
(http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122288)
Average effective income tax rates were cut even more for lower-income groups than for higher-income groups. While the average effective tax rate for the top 1 percent fell by 30 percent between 1980 and 1992, and by 35 percent for the top 20 percent of income earners, it fell by 44 percent for the second-highest quintile, 46 percent for the middle quintile, 64 percent for the second-lowest quintile, and 263 percent for the bottom quintile.15
(http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122292)
These reductions for the lowest-income groups were so large because President Reagan doubled the personal exemption, increased the standard deduction, and tripled the earned income tax credit (EITC), which provides net cash for single-parent families with children at the lowest income levels.




These changes eliminated income tax liability altogether for over 4 million lower-income families.16 (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122296)


Critics often add in the Social Security payroll tax and argue that the total federal tax burden shifted more to lower-income groups and away from upper-income groups; but President Reagan's changes were in the income tax, not in the Social Security payroll tax. The payroll tax was imposed by proponents of big government over the past 50 years, and it is they, not Ronald Reagan, who should be held accountable for its distributional effects.

Nevertheless, even if one counts the Social Security payroll tax, the share of total federal taxes increased between 1980 and 1989 for the following groups:



For the top 1 percent of taxpayers, from 12.9 percent in 1980 to 15.4 percent in 1989;
For the top 5 percent of taxpayers, from 27.3 percent in 1980 to 30.4 percent in 1989; and
For the top 20 percent of taxpayers, from 56.1 percent in 1980 to 58.6 percent in 1989.

On the other hand, the share of total federal taxes, if one includes the Social Security payroll tax, declined for four groups:


For the second-highest 20 percent of taxpayers, from 22.2 percent in 1980 to 20.8 percent in 1989;
For the middle 20 percent of taxpayers, from 13.2 percent in 1980 to 12.5 percent in 1989;
For the second-lowest 20 percent of taxpayers, from 6.9 percent in 1980 to 6.4 percent in 1989; and
For the lowest 20 percent of taxpayers, from 1.6 percent in 1980 to 1.5 percent in 1989.17 (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122308)

CONCLUSION

No matter how advocates of big government try to rewrite history, Ronald Reagan's record of fiscal responsibility continues to stand as the most successful economic policy of the 20th century. His tax reforms triggered an economic expansion that continues to this day. His investments in national security ended the Cold War and made possible the subsequent defense spending reductions that are largely responsible for the current federal surpluses. His efforts to restrain the expansion of federal government helped to limit the growth of domestic spending.

If Reagan's critics had been willing to work with him to limit domestic spending even further and to control the growth of entitlements, the budget would have been balanced five to ten years sooner and without the massive tax increase imposed in 1993. Today, Members of Congress from across the political spectrum should stand on the evidence and defend the Reagan record.

To the extent that President Bush's proposals mirror those of Ronald Reagan, his plan should be a welcome strategy to lower the tax burden on Americans and to make the system more responsible. If the advocates of big government in Congress cooperate with President Bush rather than merely continuing to fund obsolete, wasteful, and redundant programs, there is no limit to the prosperity that Americans can generate.

Peter Sperry is the Grover M. Hermann Fellow in Federal Budgetary Affairs in the Thomas A. Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.


http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record

[red states rule]

April, as I read your post I thought of this story told by Reagan



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK3Eo9cScEQ

[Voted4Reagan]

“Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the democrats believe every day is April 15.”http://thinkexist.com/i/sq/as5.gif Ronald Reagan quotes (http://thinkexist.com/quotes/ronald_reagan/) (American (http://thinkexist.com/nationality/american_authors/) 40th US President (http://thinkexist.com/occupation/famous_presidents/) (1981- 89), 1911 (http://thinkexist.com/birthday/february_6/)-2004 (http://thinkexist.com/birthday/june_5/))

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

April, as I read your post I thought of this story told by Reagan



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK3Eo9cScEQ

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to red states rule again.

It was so funny because it is so true ....-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Reagan began his term of office as an idiot and ended as a cabbage.

I'm willing to bet he was 50x smarter than you'll ever be. Do you actively support making fun of those struck with diseases and such? Do you teach the kids you meet with to bully their stricken friends with crap like that, or only for politicians?

[jimnyc]

I would love to see a side by side on what they accomplished, how much debt they created and how the economy fared. Obama himself spent more than ALL presidents, not just Reagan.

[bingster]

I'm sure all conservatives have heard this joke before, but it's my favorite Reagan joke. Unfortunately, I can't find a transcript of him actually telling it, but this is still funny:

The Pony In the Dung Heap
When Life Buries You, Dig
Journal Entry, June 2002:

Over lunch today I asked Ed Meese about one of Reagan’s favorite jokes. “The pony joke?” Meese replied. “Sure I remember it. If I heard him tell it once, I heard him tell it a thousand times.”


The joke concerns twin boys of five or six. Worried that the boys had developed extreme personalities — one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist — their parents took them to a psychiatrist.
First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. ”What’s the matter?” the psychiatrist asked, baffled. “Don’t you want to play with any of the toys?” “Yes,” the little boy bawled, “but if I did I’d only break them.”


Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his out look, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. ”What do you think you’re doing?” the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. “With all this manure,” the little boy replied, beaming, “there must be a pony in here somewhere!”


“Reagan told the joke so often,” Meese said, chuckling, “that it got to be kind of a joke with the rest of us. Whenever something would go wrong, somebody on the staff would be sure to say, “There must be a pony in here somewhere.’”

[Robert A Whit]

Reagan became president for much the same reason that Obama did: He followed one of the 20th Century's most inept administrations and rode the backlash into office.
Reagan began his term of office as an idiot and ended as a cabbage.

You were still crapping your diapers when the man was our greatest president. Bar none.

Obama fits that last sentence of yours. No insult intended to cabbages.

[glockmail]

I'm willing to bet he was 50x smarter than you'll ever be. Do you actively support making fun of those struck with diseases and such? Do you teach the kids you meet with to bully their stricken friends with crap like that, or only for politicians?Only for Republicans. The bitch is a hater.

[Voted4Reagan]

Save it guys... Good old "Pee and Flee" or "Fart and Dart" (Gabosaurus) has already abandoned the thread...

that was her trying to troll a comment to see what reaction she could get..

a bit pathetic.


But thats Gabby.... Pathetic

[aboutime]

I would love to see a side by side on what they accomplished, how much debt they created and how the economy fared. Obama himself spent more than ALL presidents, not just Reagan.

jimnyc: I no longer give a good crap about any liberal, Democrat or otherwise who still feels a need to tell us how much they hated Reagan.
Whenever I hear, or read how anyone puts him down, or expressed their undying hatred for him. I just remember how stupidity, and hatred...tied with Ignorance go hand in hand with being a Liberal, Democrat who has been led to always believe what they hear, and never bother investigating on their own.

They live by lies, and will die by lies. That's all they know.

[Voted4Reagan]

jimnyc: I no longer give a good crap about any liberal, Democrat or otherwise who still feels a need to tell us how much they hated Reagan.
Whenever I hear, or read how anyone puts him down, or expressed their undying hatred for him. I just remember how stupidity, and hatred...tied with Ignorance go hand in hand with being a Liberal, Democrat who has been led to always believe what they hear, and never bother investigating on their own.
They live by lies, and will die by lies. That's all they know.

My old friend.... Is Gabby sounding more and More like LENSY every day?

[aboutime]

My old friend.... Is Gabby sounding more and More like LENSY every day?


Ya know? Now that you mention it. I thought it looked familiar. But...what are the odds of having TWO????

[Voted4Reagan]

Ya know? Now that you mention it. I thought it looked familiar. But...what are the odds of having TWO????

Gabby could be a Sock Puppet for the Evil One......

[Kathianne]

Not the pony joke, but pretty good:


http://youtu.be/QK3Eo9cScEQ

[Kathianne]

I'm sure all conservatives have heard this joke before, but it's my favorite Reagan joke. Unfortunately, I can't find a transcript of him actually telling it, but this is still funny:

The Pony In the Dung Heap
When Life Buries You, Dig
Journal Entry, June 2002:

Over lunch today I asked Ed Meese about one of Reagan’s favorite jokes. “The pony joke?” Meese replied. “Sure I remember it. If I heard him tell it once, I heard him tell it a thousand times.”


The joke concerns twin boys of five or six. Worried that the boys had developed extreme personalities — one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist — their parents took them to a psychiatrist.
First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. ”What’s the matter?” the psychiatrist asked, baffled. “Don’t you want to play with any of the toys?” “Yes,” the little boy bawled, “but if I did I’d only break them.”


Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his out look, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. ”What do you think you’re doing?” the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. “With all this manure,” the little boy replied, beaming, “there must be a pony in here somewhere!”


“Reagan told the joke so often,” Meese said, chuckling, “that it got to be kind of a joke with the rest of us. Whenever something would go wrong, somebody on the staff would be sure to say, “There must be a pony in here somewhere.’”

We don't agree on many things, but this was funny! Yes, I've heard it before, but it's still funny!

[gabosaurus]

I'm willing to bet he was 50x smarter than you'll ever be. Do you actively support making fun of those struck with diseases and such? Do you teach the kids you meet with to bully their stricken friends with crap like that, or only for politicians?

Certainly not. The Pope said he is resigning because he no longer had the mental capacities to hold his office. Reagan should have done the same.
Reagan was a Teflon Don. He had the same folksy charm as Jimmy Carter. Unfortunately, Reagan was almost as stupid as Jimmy Carter.
Reagan implemented the disastrous "trickle down economics" theory that benefited the rich, raised taxes and launched military conflicts for his own fun and profit. Not to mention the "arms for hostages" deal he negotiated in order to win the 1980 election.

Reagan's "greatness" is not a legacy. It's a myth.

[Kathianne]

Certainly not. The Pope said he is resigning because he no longer had the mental capacities to hold his office. Reagan should have done the same.
Reagan was a Teflon Don. He had the same folksy charm as Jimmy Carter. Unfortunately, Reagan was almost as stupid as Jimmy Carter.
Reagan implemented the disastrous "trickle down economics" theory that benefited the rich, raised taxes and launched military conflicts for his own fun and profit. Not to mention the "arms for hostages" deal he negotiated in order to win the 1980 election.

Reagan's "greatness" is not a legacy. It's a myth.

I don't hold Reagan as a standard, there were too many things he did wrong, IMHO. Some of them with long term repercussions. The false charge of Iranian hostages is not amongst them. Nor is the economics of the time. Carter was lucky that Reagan followed him or he might still be regarded as the worst President. Luckily Reagan followed him and Obama comes up worse.

[aboutime]

Certainly not. The Pope said he is resigning because he no longer had the mental capacities to hold his office. Reagan should have done the same.
Reagan was a Teflon Don. He had the same folksy charm as Jimmy Carter. Unfortunately, Reagan was almost as stupid as Jimmy Carter.
Reagan implemented the disastrous "trickle down economics" theory that benefited the rich, raised taxes and launched military conflicts for his own fun and profit. Not to mention the "arms for hostages" deal he negotiated in order to win the 1980 election.

Reagan's "greatness" is not a legacy. It's a myth.



Gabby's selfishness, and stupidity is her legacy. And that is NOT a myth.

[Voted4Reagan]

Gabby..... will you be making the same jokes about your Parents or Husband or Child if they should become afflicted with Alzheimer's?

No...you wouldn't...

But you will make a joke about someone with the disease simply because they philosophically don't agree with you?

What type of person did your parents raise?

I'll tell you..... A Hypocrite.... and a bully...

Only a bully would make fun of someone with Alzheimer's ... and you certainly qualify...

you really are pathetic.... I really do pity you.... and your family... they have to put up with your crap a lot more...

[Voted4Reagan]

Certainly not. The Pope said he is resigning because he no longer had the mental capacities to hold his office. Reagan should have done the same.
Reagan was a Teflon Don. He had the same folksy charm as Jimmy Carter. Unfortunately, Reagan was almost as stupid as Jimmy Carter.
Reagan implemented the disastrous "trickle down economics" theory that benefited the rich, raised taxes and launched military conflicts for his own fun and profit. Not to mention the "arms for hostages" deal he negotiated in order to win the 1980 election.

Reagan's "greatness" is not a legacy. It's a myth.

JOHN F. KENNEDY Introduced it back in the 1960's

Learn you History once again..... you're starting to look really Stupid


Here is JFK Proposing tax cuts in 1963....


http://youtu.be/v4S5nM8BjwM

Listen to him and LEARN


From the Harvard Business school News Letter...

(See below)

The proverb, “a rising tide lifts all boats,” which John F. Kennedy used in a 1963 speech, is sometimes invoked to get across a similar idea — namely, that economic growth will help everyone, regardless of whether he has a 100-foot yacht or a dinghy.


Oh..... Please provide us with a verifiable source for you claim of an Arms for Hostages deal in the time leading up to the 1980 election...

SOURCE PLEASE gabby

[Voted4Reagan]

Reagan began his term of office as an idiot and ended as a cabbage.

So... Tell us what the meaning of that above highlighted statement is Gabby....

I'll tell you... It was you making fun of a man who had an illness simply because you didnt like him....and using that illness as the basis of a cruel and unwarranted attack..

special place in hell for those that dont have mercy on the sick and the downtrodden...

You are truly pathetic...

[Kathianne]

JOHN F. KENNEDY Introduced it back in the 1960's

Learn you History once again..... you're starting to look really Stupid


Here is JFK Proposing tax cuts in 1963....


http://youtu.be/v4S5nM8BjwM

Listen to him and LEARN


From the Harvard Business school News Letter...

(See below)

The proverb, “a rising tide lifts all boats,” which John F. Kennedy used in a 1963 speech, is sometimes invoked to get across a similar idea — namely, that economic growth will help everyone, regardless of whether he has a 100-foot yacht or a dinghy.


Oh..... Please provide us with a verifiable source for you claim of an Arms for Hostages deal in the time leading up to the 1980 election...

SOURCE PLEASE gabby

Ironic that you brought up Kennedy in response to Gabby, if ever a President was medically unfit for office, JFK was the poster child. Reagan certainly had issues at the end, thought it was questionable how debilitating they were up to the end, even today. With Kennedy, when the records became clear, not so much.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2002/12/dallek.htm


...The lifelong health problems of John F. Kennedy constitute one of the best-kept secrets of recent U.S. history—no surprise, because if the extent of those problems had been revealed while he was alive, his presidential ambitions would likely have been dashed. Kennedy, like so many of his predecessors, was more intent on winning the presidency than on revealing himself to the public. On one level this secrecy can be taken as another stain on his oft-criticized character, a deception maintained at the potential expense of the citizens he was elected to lead. Yet there is another way of viewing the silence regarding his health—as the quiet stoicism of a man struggling to endure extraordinary pain and distress and performing his presidential (and pre-presidential) duties largely undeterred by his physical suffering. Does this not also speak to his character, but in a more complex way?

Not only the extent of Kennedy's medical problems but the lengths to which he and his family went to conceal them were significant. According to Bill Walton, a Kennedy family friend, JFK was followed everywhere during the 1960 presidential campaign by an aide with a special bag containing the "medical support" that was needed all the time. When the bag was misplaced during a trip to Connecticut, Kennedy telephoned Governor Abe Ribicoff and said, "There's a medical bag floating around and it can't get in anybody's hands ... You have to find that bag." If the wrong people got hold of it, he said, "it would be murder." (The bag was recovered.)

In 1983 the Kennedy biographer Herbert Parmet observed that "dealing with the Kennedy medical history is in some ways like trying to uncover aspects of vital national-security operations." In 1995, when executors of Joseph P. Kennedy's estate made additional family papers available in the JFK Library, reports to Joe about Jack's medical condition remained closed. Before, during, and since his presidency, the Kennedys have guarded JFK's medical records from public view, apparently worrying that even posthumous revelations about his health would hurt his reputation for honest dealings with the public.

...

[gabosaurus]

V4R, you obviously fail to grasp my points. Reagan should have never ran for reelection in 1984.
And far worse things have been said about Obama.

[red states rule]

V4R, you obviously fail to grasp my points. Reagan should have never ran for reelection in 1984.
And far worse things have been said about Obama.

Given the fact you are a loyal liberal and the results of that election - I can understand why you would have not wanted Pres Reagan to run for re-election

and in case you forgot the results of that election here is the final Electoral map Gabby

http://politicalmaps.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/electoral-1984-s.jpg

[Voted4Reagan]

V4R, you obviously fail to grasp my points. Reagan should have never ran for reelection in 1984.
And far worse things have been said about Obama.

no...you fail to grasp the point...

You called a man with Alzheimers a CABBAGE....

JFK had Krohns Disease, degenerative discs in his back and a Myriad of health issues...

FDR had Polio and a host of other problems related to it...

The fact remains you think it's funny to make fun of a person with Alzheimers and call him names...

you are pathetic...

[Voted4Reagan]

Given the fact you are a loyal liberal and the results of that election - I can understand why you would have not wanted Pres Reagan to run for re-election

and in case you forgot the results of that election here is the final Electoral map Gabby

http://politicalmaps.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/electoral-1984-s.jpg

The last election where America voted for the good of the Country

and not the party they were registered with....

Look at NY and CALIFORNIA..... beautiful....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

no...you fail to grasp the point...

You called a man with Alzheimers a CABBAGE....

JFK had Krohns Disease, degenerative discs in his back and a Myriad of health issues...

FDR had Polio and a host of other problems related to it...

The fact remains you think it's funny to make fun of a person with Alzheimers and call him names...

you are pathetic...

See how the leftists/liberals/dems get a pass for such behavior that would get any Republican/conservative blasted all to hell and back?? Gabby displays her true character when doing that IMHO. She will defend muslims and their murdering ways but insult a great American for his having a disease that strikes many Americans in old age. Truly pathetic and vastly revealing too. Tis what I love about tese dem/lib types, they routinely crap in their own cereal and then happily eat it too!-- :beer:---Tyr
p.s. Truth like this is why she put me on ignore as did Jafar too.

[gabosaurus]

V4R, my point is... Reagan knew he had a myriad of health problems. So why did he run for reelection?
Obviously he was pressured to run again, knowing he would win easily.
It is tough when you play politics with a man's health and well being.

[Voted4Reagan]

V4R, my point is... Reagan knew he had a myriad of health problems. So why did he run for reelection?
Obviously he was pressured to run again, knowing he would win easily.
It is tough when you play politics with a man's health and well being.

Excuse me??? I have NEVER seen you call out JFK or FDR or Woodrow Wilson for their health issues... but because it was RONALD REAGAN a FORMER DEMOCRAT and a CONSERVATIVE you feel it justified in your weak mind to call him a CABBAGE know that it alluded to only one thing... His ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE.

I have Never in my life seen it fit to make fun of someone who has such an insidious illness... somewhere in that weak twisted mind of yours you seem to find Alzheimers to be funny and worthy of making jokes about based strictly on your party affiliation...

you are the type of intolerant, non-compromising, narcissistic, and self righteous type of person that has stalled this country from moving forward..

And you will make a joke about a dying man and call him names because you feel it fits your political agenda and you can attempt and fail to lessen the legacy of a great man...

You have failed in both your humor and your attempt to belittle him and exposed yourself as a person worthy of the contempt you bring down upon yourself...

If anyone in your family ever gets Alzheimers please let us know.... I want to be able to remind you of this and listen to you call them a cabbage....

but you wont.... for it is only good in your eyes if the person dying from it is someone you disagree with...

What a small, narrow minded and Lonely person you must be...

Pathetic describes you best.... and you are to be pitied for your lack of human compassion.

Thats as eloquently as I can say this without getting into an expletive laced diatribe.......but you dont have the skills to comprehend what I am saying....

I do pity you.. it is indeed a sad life you lead.

[glockmail]

FDR died in office due to his health problems. Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd, same deal. They were libs though so Gabs, the bitch, gives them a pass.

[Voted4Reagan]

FDR died in office due to his health problems. Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd, same deal. They were libs though so Gabs, the bitch, gives them a pass.

Glock.. Do not lower yourself to Gabby's level... She seeks name calling as a form of negative attention for the attention and things she almost surely lacks in her real life.

Pity her... but dont call her names as it brings you down to her level ... maintain the moral high ground.

In the last few days she has called out the pope for being an enabler of pedophilia and called Ronald Reagan a cabbage based on his having Alzheimer's.

Take pity on those that have neither the compassion or mental acuity to act like a human being....

They indeed live a lonely and pitiful existence...

[aboutime]

V4R, my point is... Reagan knew he had a myriad of health problems. So why did he run for reelection?
Obviously he was pressured to run again, knowing he would win easily.
It is tough when you play politics with a man's health and well being.


Gabby. As if you had any idea what you were talking about above. Guess you never learned, or heard about FDR fooling the entire nation from the start of his terms...as a Polio victim who COULD NOT WALK.'

Did you happen to notice? If you are as smart as you claim to be. How FDR kept that SECRET until the day he died in office.

But the only president...which we all know...you hated much like yourself. Is the one target you Liberally, and Stupidly feel comfortable picking on. EVEN REAGAN would have called you DUMB.

[Robert A Whit]

Certainly not. The Pope said he is resigning because he no longer had the mental capacities to hold his office. Reagan should have done the same.
Reagan was a Teflon Don. He had the same folksy charm as Jimmy Carter. Unfortunately, Reagan was almost as stupid as Jimmy Carter.
Reagan implemented the disastrous "trickle down economics" theory that benefited the rich, raised taxes and launched military conflicts for his own fun and profit. Not to mention the "arms for hostages" deal he negotiated in order to win the 1980 election.

Reagan's "greatness" is not a legacy. It's a myth.

You did not know Ronald Reagan. I want to debunk each lie you told. Save to end this way.

Woman, you crapped your diapers when he was president. And you still don't know shit.

Reagan did not ever speak of trickle down economics. But I note how often Obama does.

You can't spot it with all that baby poo all over your eyes. But the stimulus? Went to the rich. He told us it would trickle down.

Much like it once trickled down your legs when you was a squawling baby.

I realize to master Democrat 101, you must claim he took away the glory of Carter somehow but show me even one claim by Jimmy Carter saying Reagan did as you claim.

If Carter made that claim, he flat lied.

[Robert A Whit]

V4R, my point is... Reagan knew he had a myriad of health problems. So why did he run for reelection?
Obviously he was pressured to run again, knowing he would win easily.
It is tough when you play politics with a man's health and well being.

People,

NOW you can see how poor educaton is in California.

I can't handle reading such lies.

Reagan's doctors were asked if he showed signs of poor health. No they said.

What about Alzheimers said Doctors were asked about.

Nope, no probme there either. At least one of Reagan's doctors debunked Gabby's claims.

But some love passing out lies and she is an expert in that task.

She does not understand what drove Reagan. His enormous desire to solve problems, to end nuclear weapons, to do all he could to benefit the entire nation.

No, she did not know Reagan as a lot of us did. She has no qualities of Reagan. I tend to blame where she lives.

[aboutime]

People,

NOW you can see how poor educaton is in California.

I can't handle reading such lies.

Reagan's doctors were asked if he showed signs of poor health. No they said.

What about Alzheimers said Doctors were asked about.

Nope, no probme there either. At least one of Reagan's doctors debunked Gabby's claims.

But some love passing out lies and she is an expert in that task.

She does not understand what drove Reagan. His enormous desire to solve problems, to end nuclear weapons, to do all he could to benefit the entire nation.

No, she did not know Reagan as a lot of us did. She has no qualities of Reagan. I tend to blame where she lives.


Robert. Let gabby go. She is the one, most reliable source of proof that "IGNORANCE...really is BLISS!"

[glockmail]

Glock.. Do not lower yourself to Gabby's level... She seeks name calling as a form of negative attention for the attention and things she almost surely lacks in her real life.

Pity her... but dont call her names as it brings you down to her level ... maintain the moral high ground.

In the last few days she has called out the pope for being an enabler of pedophilia and called Ronald Reagan a cabbage based on his having Alzheimer's.

Take pity on those that have neither the compassion or mental acuity to act like a human being....

They indeed live a lonely and pitiful existence...
"Bitch" isn't a name; it's an accurate description.

[Voted4Reagan]

hit and run has left the thread

[red states rule]

One major difference between Pres Reagan and Obama


http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk021613dAPR20130215084527.jpg

[glockmail]

hit and run has left the thread
More like hit and sit.

[Voted4Reagan]

More like hit and sit.

The term HIT and RUN should be replaced in her avatar by...

1. "Old FART and DART"

or

2. "Old PEE and FLEE"

either one applies to how she marks her trolls territory.....

she truly is pathetic..... pity her glockmail.... hers is a lonely lot in life indeed...

[April15]

I voted for Mondale. I really would have preferred Carter but we got Mondale. The Ray Goon had such an actors presents and a line of crap that Americans wanted to hear that America took the Easy way out. The Ray Goon won and the country has been going downhill ever since. I seem to get under the skin of some here and that is not my intent. My intent is to educate.

[aboutime]

I voted for Mondale. I really would have preferred Carter but we got Mondale. The Ray Goon had such an actors presents and a line of crap that Americans wanted to hear that America took the Easy way out. The Ray Goon won and the country has been going downhill ever since. I seem to get under the skin of some here and that is not my intent. My intent is to educate.


Funny stuff. You really should take your own advice first, and educate yourself. Laughing at you is...much more fun.

[red states rule]

I voted for Mondale. I really would have preferred Carter but we got Mondale. The Ray Goon had such an actors presents and a line of crap that Americans wanted to hear that America took the Easy way out. The Ray Goon won and the country has been going downhill ever since. I seem to get under the skin of some here and that is not my intent. My intent is to educate.

So once again, a liberal on the losing end of an election is right and the huge majority that voted for Reagan are wrong

I will not waste time arguing with you April. Like Gabby and Bing you have closed off your mind to all different points of view and treat those different views with contempt

Meanwhile your state sinks further into recession, as libs jack up taxes, drive people and businesses out of the state, and counties file bankruptcy. Yet you cling to your tax and spend ideology despite what is going on around you

Your intent is not to educate. It is to indoctrinate

[Robert A Whit]

The term HIT and RUN should be replaced in her avatar by...

1. "Old FART and DART"

or

2. "Old PEE and FLEE"

either one applies to how she marks her trolls territory.....

she truly is pathetic..... pity her glockmail.... hers is a lonely lot in life indeed...


You guys better watch out. Old AT landed on me hard saying he has his grand kids setting at his computer watching for cuss words.

He proceeded to whine at me and I put a stop to his whining.

I don't care what you say. I think adults can say what they want. Thank the founders for the 1st amendment. And the rest as well.

[red states rule]

It is funny reading the posts of libs like April who live in CA where Obamanomics have been in pace for decades

CA has the highest taxes in the nation. They welcome illegals into their state with open arms. The government micromanages the private sector with endless regulations

Yet the state has a multibillion dollar deficit, 5 counties have filed for bankruptcy, wealthy individuals and companies are fleeing the state; gas is over $5/gal; fraud and corruption is rampet in the local and state government; and yet libs from that state stick to their tax and spend liberal agenda and say this is they way the nation should go

What is wrong with this picture folks?

[Robert A Whit]

I voted for Mondale. I really would have preferred Carter but we got Mondale. The Ray Goon had such an actors presents and a line of crap that Americans wanted to hear that America took the Easy way out. The Ray Goon won and the country has been going downhill ever since. I seem to get under the skin of some here and that is not my intent. My intent is to educate.


I voted for Carter since at that time, I was still a dumb democrat. I happen to believe though that Mondale came earlier since I recall voting for him. Maybe I am in error.

Nope, Mondale was on the Carter ticket as VP and they won. When Reagan ran and won, by a royal ass kicking, Mondale was the top of the ticket. Ferraro was the wanna be VP. Reagan also beat the tar out of those two.

April 15 appears to have a penchant for voting for losers.

Reagan was a trained economist. Reagan also served this nation as an officer. While not in combat, in those days it was the Feds that picked out te jobs and Reagan did as told.

Reagan also headed a union though today democrats won't mention that. He also served 8 years as a governor. It was this training and skill that prepared him to be president. By all accounts, he was super good. And in my book, the best ever president.

I know, some of you think some of the founders were better. I rate him on a many scale formula. What made FDR great?

Well, if you are a socislist, you like his socialist formula. I don't happen to be one. And Reagan also was not one.

My scale takes into account some of these factors.

Was president dealing with any crisis?
How severe were the crisis?
Did he play any role assisting to free humans?
A few of them or many of them?
Did a domestic policy fall apart or get stronger?
Was there any problem with the countries economy?

Anyway, say you use this on Washington.
He was not president when he had the crisis but still we have to credit him for an 8 year war. France came to help him thus England was booted out.
I would say the crisis was pretty serious.
He worked to free about 2 million humans.
For the times, he freed many.
Domestically not much to report.
When he was president, things were mostly agrarian.

But Reagan
Worst of all kinds of crisis. Facing nuclear destruction. Most posters I believe other than we older posters can't empathize with us that worried we might be gone in a puff of smoke and nuclear blasts.
Reagan had a number of crisis around the world and he should be credited for freeing millions of humans.
Domestically, Reagan was brilliant. And he put this country on a course for true economic freedom and lots of glory.

And unlike FDR, he did not get his ass dragged into a major war.

[Robert A Whit]

It is funny reading the posts of libs like April who live in CA where Obamanomics have been in pace for decades

CA has the highest taxes in the nation. They welcome illegals into their state with open arms. The government micromanages the private sector with endless regulations

Yet the state has a multibillion dollar deficit, 5 counties have filed for bankruptcy, wealthy individuals and companies are fleeing the state; gas is over $5/gal; fraud and corruption is rampet in the local and state government; and yet libs from that state stick to their tax and spend liberal agenda and say this is they way the nation should go

What is wrong with this picture folks?

I never heard that any CA counties filed for bankruptcy. We had some cities that did. I plan to check that out. Glad you brought it up. We have so many regulations I feel like I live in the former East Germany. Governor Brown brags the deficit is coming down but you know how he lies.

Our local news claims that Gov. Perry came to take away companies and got none. I think they need to give it more time and then report. I want companies to stay. We have mild winters. Wonderful springs and falls. And the rest of the time we have very moderate weather. In the valley areas, you sure can get hot. I live fairly close to the coast.

Brown talked the people into voting for higher taxes but only sales taxes on most of us but a surcharge ineome tax on the rich. Needless to say, the democrats run this state so screwing the rich was a slam dunk.

[red states rule]

I voted for Carter since at that time, I was still a dumb democrat. I happen to believe though that Mondale came earlier since I recall voting for him. Maybe I am in error.

Nope, Mondale was on the Carter ticket as VP and they won. When Reagan ran and won, by a royal ass kicking, Mondale was the top of the ticket. Ferraro was the wanna be VP. Reagan also beat the tar out of those two.

April 15 appears to have a penchant for voting for losers.

Reagan was a trained economist. Reagan also served this nation as an officer. While not in combat, in those days it was the Feds that picked out te jobs and Reagan did as told.

Reagan also headed a union though today democrats won't mention that. He also served 8 years as a governor. It was this training and skill that prepared him to be president. By all accounts, he was super good. And in my book, the best ever president.

I know, some of you think some of the founders were better. I rate him on a many scale formula. What made FDR great?

Well, if you are a socislist, you like his socialist formula. I don't happen to be one. And Reagan also was not one.

My scale takes into account some of these factors.

Was president dealing with any crisis?
How severe were the crisis?
Did he play any role assisting to free humans?
A few of them or many of them?
Did a domestic policy fall apart or get stronger?
Was there any problem with the countries economy?

Anyway, say you use this on Washington.
He was not president when he had the crisis but still we have to credit him for an 8 year war. France came to help him thus England was booted out.
I would say the crisis was pretty serious.
He worked to free about 2 million humans.
For the times, he freed many.
Domestically not much to report.
When he was president, things were mostly agrarian.

But Reagan
Worst of all kinds of crisis. Facing nuclear destruction. Most posters I believe other than we older posters can't empathize with us that worried we might be gone in a puff of smoke and nuclear blasts.
Reagan had a number of crisis around the world and he should be credited for freeing millions of humans.
Domestically, Reagan was brilliant. And he put this country on a course for true economic freedom and lots of glory.

And unlike FDR, he did not get his ass dragged into a major war.

So when you stopped voting based on emotion and started voting on facts - you left the Democrat party

Good for you

[red states rule]

I never heard that any CA counties filed for bankruptcy. We had some cities that did. I plan to check that out. Glad you brought it up. We have so many regulations I feel like I live in the former East Germany. Governor Brown brags the deficit is coming down but you know how he lies.

Our local news claims that Gov. Perry came to take away companies and got none. I think they need to give it more time and then report. I want companies to stay. We have mild winters. Wonderful springs and falls. And the rest of the time we have very moderate weather. In the valley areas, you sure can get hot. I live fairly close to the coast.

Brown talked the people into voting for higher taxes but only sales taxes on most of us but a surcharge ineome tax on the rich. Needless to say, the democrats run this state so screwing the rich was a slam dunk.

Here is one link to the CA counties that have filed for bankruptcy

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/us/san-bernardino-council-votes-to-file-bankruptcy.html?_r=0


Here is one link to the hundreds of companies that fled CA in 2011 and took jobs and tax revenue with them

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/moved-342887-companies-texas.html


I feel sorry for you Robert. Perhaps FL or TX would be a better place for you to enjoy your retirement

[Voted4Reagan]

So when you stopped voting based on emotion and started voting on facts - you left the Democrat party

Good for you

I am willing to bet that it was Reagan's famous quote that changed Roberts mind...

"I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left me."

[glockmail]

....I seem to get under the skin of some here and that is not my intent. My intent is to educate.
:lol:

[jimnyc]

V4R, my point is... Reagan knew he had a myriad of health problems. So why did he run for reelection?
Obviously he was pressured to run again, knowing he would win easily.
It is tough when you play politics with a man's health and well being.

I hope you have fond things to say about the current Pope then, for stepping aside due to failing health.

[jimnyc]

I voted for Mondale. I really would have preferred Carter but we got Mondale. The Ray Goon had such an actors presents and a line of crap that Americans wanted to hear that America took the Easy way out. The Ray Goon won and the country has been going downhill ever since. I seem to get under the skin of some here and that is not my intent. My intent is to educate.

To educate, you should discuss verifiable facts as opposed to rhetoric. No matter how you slice it, Reagan was much better than Obama in every single category - 'cept for which one could make welfare absolutely skyrocket once in office.

[Voted4Reagan]

The Ray Goon was quite possibly the worst president to ever sit in the oval office. You can paint me a lib if you wish but the truth is as follows.
Mission Accomplished: The Reagan Occupation and the Destruction of the American Middle
Class

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3310

DAVID MICHAEL GREEN FOR BUZZFLASH

Eighty years ago, something occurred in America that was never supposed to happen. An
aristocrat came to the presidency and engineered a policy revolution that created a broad and
prosperous middle class where it had not existed as such before.

To do this, Franklin Roosevelt and his party had to rewrite the existing rules of wealth
redistribution in the United States such that the traditionally fantastically wealthy overclass
(which had grown even fatter as the industrialism of the prior century concentrated wealth yet
further) would become merely tremendously wealthy from that point forward, in order to leave
enough for others to live a decent life.

Needless to say, this rankled the country club set, but, remarkably, they more or less made peace
with this development during the early decades of the post-war era, and largely cooperated with
the new economic order. So did their political representatives. The Eisenhower administration
was the first chance after twenty years of the New Deal to dismantle the newly created American
welfare state, and Ike not only refused to take that opportunity, but famously labeled those in his
party who wanted to as “stupid."

If Eisenhower, in his gray suit, black-and-white photos and de rigueur businessman’s hat from
the era seems quaint today, so does his political restraint. By the 1980s that was ancient history,
and remains so to this day, including through (and via) two Democratic presidencies now.

If Americans understood the real ambitions of Ronald Reagan and his puppeteers, and if they
knew the degree to which the supposed patriotism of those folks extended beyond falsity and into
the far darker waters of being an irritating irrelevance put on purely for show, then they would
not only stop seeing Reagan as some sort of national hero, but would also understand that he
instead launched a process far more equivalent to an invasion and occupation of this country.
...

(rest at link)

David Michael Green is a professor of political science at Hofstra University in New York. He is
delighted to receive readers' reactions to his articles (dmg@regressiveantidote.net), but regrets
that time constraints do not always allow him to respond. More of his work can be found at his
website, www.regressiveantidote.net (http://www.regressiveantidote.net).

Left wing blogs..... You try to bring down Reagan with left wing blogs....

laughable....

[Robert A Whit]

I am willing to bet that it was Reagan's famous quote that changed Roberts mind...

"I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left me."

I have explained my reasons for change. But to be blunt, I was born during FDRs era and he was wrong then. He was warned that things would go bad. He was wrong, they got it right.

I was kind of brainwashed by parents and family. None of them were republicans. I wasted 42 years of my life doing the wrong thing.

Democrats were never right. Nor can they be.

I saw a post I want to deal with here.

Red states provided two links. I read his link 1 and plan to read the other link.

His link speaks not of a county in CA, but a city.

We had Vallejo, CA go bankrupt. Stockton, CA go bankrupt and his link to San Bernadino, a shit hole in the desert also bankrupted.

[Robert A Whit]

Here is one link to the CA counties that have filed for bankruptcy

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/us/san-bernardino-council-votes-to-file-bankruptcy.html?_r=0


Here is one link to the hundreds of companies that fled CA in 2011 and took jobs and tax revenue with them

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/moved-342887-companies-texas.html


I feel sorry for you Robert. Perhaps FL or TX would be a better place for you to enjoy your retirement

Link 1 is a city. As I said, so far, I have not heard of any or the counties filing for bankruptcy protection. San Jose Ca is still teetering and that city is maybe 1,000,000 population by now.

If that sucker goes, it will be a large splash. Where they are, they also get the boost of being silicon valley.

Your company move figures are interesting.

I can't get CA weather in TX or FL. But their taxes sure are much lower.

I have a daughter nearby and the other in Hawaii keeps asking me to live where she lives.

[Kathianne]

Link 1 is a city. As I said, so far, I have not heard of any or the counties filing for bankruptcy protection. San Jose Ca is still teetering and that city is maybe 1,000,000 population by now.

If that sucker goes, it will be a large splash. Where they are, they also get the boost of being silicon valley.

Your company move figures are interesting.

I can't get CA weather in TX or FL. But their taxes sure are much lower.

I have a daughter nearby and the other in Hawaii keeps asking me to live where she lives.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/municipal-cities-counties-bankruptcies-and-defaults.html


...List of Bankruptcy Filings Since January 2010

All Municipal Bankruptcy Filings: 31

City and Locality Bankruptcy Filings (7):
-- City of San Bernardino, Calif.
-- Town of Mammoth Lakes, Calf. (Dismissed)
-- City of Stockton, Calif.
-- Jefferson County, Ala.
-- City of Harrisburg, Pa. (Dismissed)
-- City of Central Falls, R.I.
-- Boise County, Idaho (Dismissed)

...

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/municipal-cities-counties-bankruptcies-and-defaults.html

No California counties are on Kathiannes list.

Vallejo perhaps is out of bankruptcy but we all can check that out.

I love that small town called Mammoth Lakes. I forgot till she brought it up but I note the case was dismissed.

If ever you are on the Eastern side of the Sierra mountains, visit Mammoth Lakes.

The town has plenty of places to stay, good restaurants for good food and a lot to see. By the ski run, you can board a bus that takes you over to some camp grounds. Devil's Post pile is down that way. The San Joaquin River starts there.

I believe that Mammoth Lakes is about 8,000 ft elevation.

One can understand as remote as it is, why prices of fuels matter. If fuel cost what it cost under Bush, no doubt the city would not have tried to go bankrupt.

Hey, look this site over. Awesome scenery.

http://www.ci.mammoth-lakes.ca.us/

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnwa7Cfvu8qR1ZD1-ghwTLZtxy72fzGsw4P9EluvBlu9nkz8XGQg

[Kathianne]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/vallejo-bankruptcy_n_1693863.html


07/22/12 08:23 PM ET

VALLEJO, Calif. -- Cobblestones show through the decrepit pavement in Sheila Dodson's downtown neighborhood, prostitutes ply the sidewalks in broad daylight and many of the century-old Victorians stand empty. Yet this is where Dodson wants to raise her family.


"Just because the coffers are poor doesn't mean there's not opportunity," she said while walking with her toddler daughter along the broken streets.


Vallejo has emerged from bankruptcy with a newfound commitment to community involvement that is exemplified by upbeat residents like Dodson and a local government now focused on innovation. But the financial fixes envisioned when the city filed in 2008 haven't all materialized, and Vallejo continues to operate in the red.


With two other California cities recently filing for bankruptcy, a third about to and others in trouble, Vallejo offers an example of what good – and bad – can come from a Chapter 9 filing.
"Bankruptcy brings a brutal recognition of the new normal," Vallejo Councilwoman Stephanie Gomes said. "It's Darwinism. The cities that are going to stay solvent are the ones that can evolve."


Municipal bankruptcies are extremely rare and occur for different reasons. Nationwide, there may be only one or two in a year. But with the economy still struggling, bankruptcies are becoming more prevalent.

...

[Robert A Whit]

Vallejo is an old sea faring city gone bad. When Mare Island Navy Base functioned, at least jobs were there.

I will try to round up some history and other facts.

A lot of Vallejo is so disgusting that people simply won't live there.

[logroller]

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/municipal-cities-counties-bankruptcies-and-defaults.html

It is worth mentioning that one of the major reasons for municipalities having budget shortfalls is the decreasing revenues from property taxes following the housing market collapse. While the market was booming, more houses combined with increasing assessed valuation led to huge revenue increases. Investment in the municipalities flourished and the demand for utilities and public services along with it. Then the market crashes, people foreclose on their properties, that's a instant loss there, and those who stayed request their property to be reassessed at current market value, further decreasing revenue. Add to that, many of the utility contracts were in force, but no longer necessary or solvent. (hence the huge number of redevelopment agencies which under, far more than municipalities)
That California has so many of these troubled munis is not surprising; California has a law (Prop 13, an Amendment) which caps the property tax at 1% of assessed value and prohibits the increase of property tax more than 2%/year based on a 1975 base year (unless reassessed by sale or major improvement). Prop 8 (same year, 1978) would further modify the amendment to allow for reducing of the property value when prices went down, only with no limits of downward movement (although still subject to 2% per annum from base-year). Needless to say, its an accounting nightmare. It was all part of the anti-tax movement in the late 70's. I think its a good law, less tax and all, and was designed to prevent older homeowners from being forced to move out of their homes due to increased property taxes. But it has its downfalls if you're a small municipality that doesn't have a revenue stream apart from residential/service property.

[red states rule]

Another characteristic of Pres Reagan that libs hated was his uncanny ability to turn the lefts arguments against them

Here is a classic moment during the Reagan - Mondull debate when the liberal media tried to use age as a campaign issue

Pay attention Gabby as you were either not born yet or still in diapers at the time




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJhCjMfRndk

[glockmail]

The Gipper was a master. :coffee:

[jimnyc]

Another characteristic of Pres Reagan that libs hated was his uncanny ability to turn the lefts arguments against them

Here is a classic moment during the Reagan - Mondull debate when the liberal media tried to use age as a campaign issue

Pay attention Gabby as you were either not born yet or still in diapers at the time

Not bad at all for an old "cabbage".

And how did the old cabbage seem on his way out of office? Does this sound like a guy losing his marbles and incapable of leading?


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UKVsq2daR8Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jimnyc]

1987

Not bad for someone who shouldn't have run for office in 1984

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ei1HnWwzmNk" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YtYdjbpBk6A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jimnyc]

^^ Some should ask those that were in attendance back then if they wished Reagan had never ran for office again, if they thought he was a cabbage and wasn't fit for office.

[Voted4Reagan]

^^ Some should ask those that were in attendance back then if they wished Reagan had never ran for office again, if they thought he was a cabbage and wasn't fit for office.

I think Gabby has pulled a WINDSONG and fled to the safety of Liberal-ville, USA

[red states rule]

34 years ago libs thought government was the answer to everything and Reagan replied "There you go again"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9y5-Vo61w

[Robert A Whit]

It is worth mentioning that one of the major reasons for municipalities having budget shortfalls is the decreasing revenues from property taxes following the housing market collapse. While the market was booming, more houses combined with increasing assessed valuation led to huge revenue increases. Investment in the municipalities flourished and the demand for utilities and public services along with it. Then the market crashes, people foreclose on their properties, that's a instant loss there, and those who stayed request their property to be reassessed at current market value, further decreasing revenue. Add to that, many of the utility contracts were in force, but no longer necessary or solvent. (hence the huge number of redevelopment agencies which under, far more than municipalities)
That California has so many of these troubled munis is not surprising; California has a law (Prop 13, an Amendment) which caps the property tax at 1% of assessed value and prohibits the increase of property tax more than 2%/year based on a 1975 base year (unless reassessed by sale or major improvement). Prop 8 (same year, 1978) would further modify the amendment to allow for reducing of the property value when prices went down, only with no limits of downward movement (although still subject to 2% per annum from base-year). Needless to say, its an accounting nightmare. It was all part of the anti-tax movement in the late 70's. I think its a good law, less tax and all, and was designed to prevent older homeowners from being forced to move out of their homes due to increased property taxes. But it has its downfalls if you're a small municipality that doesn't have a revenue stream apart from residential/service property.

Proposition 13 was not an anti tax change to the law, it was a save the public law. The taxes on property accrue to the county. Taxes on property were so staggering that people had to sell a home simply because they had not enough income to pay property taxes. As long as you had a job or stayed married, you may have kept up with the sharp increases in taxes year by year. We had to put a stop to assessors jacking up taxes at what seemed to me to be for the fun of it.

At the time, I noticed a flaw in the law, but I also did not want a divorced woman, with a lower paying job than her ex had, with kids to raise, no child support coming in, to be forced to sell her home simply because she could not keep pace with the property taxes. When government forces you out of your home, something is wrong with that government.

The 2 percent rise of taxes was deemed enough to cover inflation and some added to cover other rises in costs, such as new facilities that had not been there before. We also can increase our taxes by a large enough vote in favor. Also, this law forced counties to actually pay down their debts. Cities levy taxes a lot of ways. They collect sales tax. Not all of it, but they get a piece of that. They have all sorts of city fees. If one wants to play a game on a public field, they charge an use fee.

I plan to check how much of the county property taxes end up going to the city. I believe in CA that it was Sacramento that took those taxes and used them to pay state costs.

I think my research will show that business taxes mostly support the city. Be back when I have more facts.

[red states rule]

It is worth mentioning that one of the major reasons for municipalities having budget shortfalls is the decreasing revenues from property taxes following the housing market collapse. While the market was booming, more houses combined with increasing assessed valuation led to huge revenue increases. Investment in the municipalities flourished and the demand for utilities and public services along with it. Then the market crashes, people foreclose on their properties, that's a instant loss there, and those who stayed request their property to be reassessed at current market value, further decreasing revenue. Add to that, many of the utility contracts were in force, but no longer necessary or solvent. (hence the huge number of redevelopment agencies which under, far more than municipalities)
That California has so many of these troubled munis is not surprising; California has a law (Prop 13, an Amendment) which caps the property tax at 1% of assessed value and prohibits the increase of property tax more than 2%/year based on a 1975 base year (unless reassessed by sale or major improvement). Prop 8 (same year, 1978) would further modify the amendment to allow for reducing of the property value when prices went down, only with no limits of downward movement (although still subject to 2% per annum from base-year). Needless to say, its an accounting nightmare. It was all part of the anti-tax movement in the late 70's. I think its a good law, less tax and all, and was designed to prevent older homeowners from being forced to move out of their homes due to increased property taxes. But it has its downfalls if you're a small municipality that doesn't have a revenue stream apart from residential/service property.

A bigger reason is the spendthrift libs and the insane promises they made to the union bosses





The real culprit is foolish decision making. Stockton, for instance, refused to take advantage of an exemption in prevailing wage laws—something that could have saved it money but would have angered the powerful unions.

The housing bubble hit the hardest in cities inland from the growth-controlled major metropolitan areas. When the prices went up in Los Angeles and San Francisco, developers moved inland, where it was easier to get the permits necessary to respond to the demands of the marketplace.

But even coastal cities are struggling. Los Angeles is not a victim of the foreclosure crisis. Pension costs in San Jose—where the housing market has rebounded thanks to a healthy tech-based economy—rose 350 percent in 10 years and now consume 20 percent of the general-fund budget. That city passed pension reform on the November ballot to stop the fiscal bleeding.

In the Prop Zero blog Joe Mathews debunks San Bernardino’s allegations that the state is to blame for its fiscal problems: “Local elected officials who complain about a lack of state money have things backwards. The state of California is relatively spare in its spending, compared to national averages. California’s local officials are, by contrast, big spenders, at or near the national lead in compensation for local workers, especially law enforcement.” Mathews misses a big point—California state government spends its money poorly, but he is right about local government wastrels, who busted the bank on public-safety pay and benefit packages and now are looking to cast blame anywhere they can.

Bankruptcy is not a great option but at least it gives cities a chance to get their house in order and start fresh. Unfortunately, Vallejo and Stockton refused to tackle existing pension debt in their bankruptcy plans. Orange County emerged from bankruptcy in the 1990s in better shape than ever, but as writer Chris Reed explained in Calwatchdog, subsequent boards of supervisors then began spending like crazy on public-sector compensation.

Bankruptcy cannot stop future officials from wasting the taxpayer dollar. But when there’s no money, there’s nothing left to do. In Scranton, Pa., a judge issued an injunction to stop the mayor’s plan to begin paying all city employees minimum wage. But there’s no money left to pay any more than that, he said. The city will gladly pay more as soon as it has the cash to pay it.

Only when the money runs out will cities find the necessary solutions. That’s perhaps the saddest commentary on the situation in California cities these days.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/07/20/california-goes-bankrupt

[Robert A Whit]

Ca at one point took property taxes away from the cities. I reviewed the current budget of my city and discovered that an intergovernmental transfer called property taxes currently is received by the city. It is largest single source of revenue.

I will use actual numbers on my paper
Property taxes $49,908,000

Other large sources are
Business license $7,908,000
Hotel / motel taxes $4,248,000
Franchise fees $8,120,000
Charges for service $4,800,000
Fines $2,288,000
Investment earnings $526,000
Paramedic taxes $1,159
Other Revenues $1,378,000

Anyway, one reason I posted this is to hope some of you may visit your city site and look up what your city does to pay it's bills.

Oh, per the budget, fire and police are the largest expenses

A note on my city.

In 2011, they got a study and are using it to save money. Though some is implemented, by FY 16 I believe it is scheduled to be concluded.

My city has long kept a fund to handle something large that was not expected.

My city is ranked as one of the finest cities in America as to quality of life and how it manages finances.

We have a bit more than 50 percent Asians.
Close to that figure in Caucasians. We have few minorities.

When out shopping, in some stores, it feels as if I am in Asia.

[Robert A Whit]

Not bad at all for an old "cabbage".

And how did the old cabbage seem on his way out of office? Does this sound like a guy losing his marbles and incapable of leading?


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UKVsq2daR8Q" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>


None of them tried to use this smarmy claim against Reagan until 6 full years after he left office and he spoke to the public about his problems with Alzheimer's. By that time his doctor clearly told him his problem. Even the day of that speech in 1994, wich we ought to review has him speaking clearly. When I FIRST got wind of how Democrats felt, it was AFTER the investigation of Clinton commenced. Suddenly democrats always wanted to run down Reagan.

[Kathianne]

Not bad at all for an old "cabbage".

And how did the old cabbage seem on his way out of office? Does this sound like a guy losing his marbles and incapable of leading?


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UKVsq2daR8Q" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

I've often said that while Reagan did great things for the country and the world, there were aspects of his terms that I had serious problems with. Foremost was the changes made regarding census collecting and collating. Today, as a result, we know more 'details' and less big picture than we need. It was a sea change, that will not be reversed.

However, this speech, like many of his spoke to a future that would happen. His remarks on the 'boat people' of Indo-China being one that many that have become anti-Immigrant should pay heed to.

So too his comments on civic education in America. He was right, nearly a 1/4 century ago that children in US were not being educated to pick up the mantle. They still aren't, in fact it's worse than ever. "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."--Thomas Jefferson

[Robert A Whit]

I've often said that while Reagan did great things for the country and the world, there were aspects of his terms that I had serious problems with. Foremost was the changes made regarding census collecting and collating. Today, as a result, we know more 'details' and less big picture than we need. It was a sea change, that will not be reversed.

However, this speech, like many of his spoke to a future that would happen. His remarks on the 'boat people' of Indo-China being one that many that have become anti-Immigrant should pay heed to.

So too his comments on civic education in America. He was right, nearly a 1/4 century ago that children in US were not being educated to pick up the mantle. They still aren't, in fact it's worse than ever. "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."--Thomas Jefferson

Since Reagan administrated and did not legislate, we need to know much more about that census issue. I don't rate presidents by a single law anyhow.

I am trying to put my finger on the direction of your argument. Not clear to me if you praised him or bashed him.

I can't recall boat people being a problem when he was president.

[Kathianne]

Since Reagan administrated and did not legislate, we need to know much more about that census issue. I don't rate presidents by a single law anyhow.

I am trying to put my finger on the direction of your argument. Not clear to me if you praised him or bashed him.

I can't recall boat people being a problem when he was president.

1. You didn't watch the video, or you would immediately understand my reference to the boat people.

2. I don't expect you to understand my problem with what he did with census, even if you bothered to look up the reference.

[Robert A Whit]

1. You didn't watch the video, or you would immediately understand my reference to the boat people.

2. I don't expect you to understand my problem with what he did with census, even if you bothered to look up the reference.

If Say Jim was not looking at each video, and he asked you what I did, is that how you would have talked to him?

What you just told me added nothing to your case.

[Kathianne]

If Say Jim was not looking at each video, and he asked you what I did, is that how you would have talked to him?

What you just told me added nothing to your case.

Huh?

[Robert A Whit]

Huh?

You could have told me what I needed to know and left off the lecture is what I am saying.

[Kathianne]

You could have told me what I needed to know and left off the lecture is what I am saying.

Again, huh? What you've questioned makes no sense.

[Robert A Whit]

Again, huh? What you've questioned makes no sense.

No, if so, your statements that I questioned make no sense.

Back up and try this all over please.

Never mind on the boat people since I now know.




http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Robert A Whit http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=618520#post618520)
Since Reagan administrated and did not legislate, we need to know much more about that census issue. I don't rate presidents by a single law anyhow.

I am trying to put my finger on the direction of your argument. Not clear to me if you praised him or bashed him.

I can't recall boat people being a problem when he was president.

[red states rule]

and here is the speech that had libs pissing their pants when Pres Reagan called the Soviet Union the evil empire

He was right and he brought down the Soviet Union without firing a shot



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do0x-Egc6oA

[Voted4Reagan]

I voted for Mondale. I really would have preferred Carter but we got Mondale. The Ray Goon had such an actors presents and a line of crap that Americans wanted to hear that America took the Easy way out. The Ray Goon won and the country has been going downhill ever since. I seem to get under the skin of some here and that is not my intent. My intent is to educate.

Ahhh...there's the rub....

You voted for MONDALE... The man on the receiving end of the biggest electoral ass-whooping in history.

Now we see why you have a case of bleeding Butthurt.http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/11/110013/2304795-good_good_let_the_butthurt_flow_through_you_1_supe r.jpg