Could Schizophrenia be demon possession?

[tailfins]

People hearing voices and seeing things could have a dark spiritual root, couldn't it? When's the last time you heard of someone hearing voices telling them to go volunteer at the Salvation Army?

[fj1200]

That would explain Jesus' ability to cure those with seeming mental illnesses in the bible. It was discussed at some point in my Sunday School class.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

People hearing voices and seeing things could have a dark spiritual root, couldn't it? When's the last time you heard of someone hearing voices telling them to go volunteer at the Salvation Army?

I had an ex-sister in law that I am absolutely sure was demon possessed! In fact , so sure that I believe I'd stake my life on it if forced to choose between yes or no. Story far too long to tell but in my entire life only this one person do I say this about. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That would explain Jesus' ability to cure those with seeming mental illnesses in the bible. It was discussed at some point in my Sunday School class.

Bible clearly states that Jesus cast out demons.



Mark 3:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+3%3A11&version=ESV)

And whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.”







Acts 16:16-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+16%3A16-18&version=ESV)

As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling. She followed Paul and us, crying out, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation.” And this she kept doing for many days. Paul, having become greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour.



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Luke 4:33-36 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+4%3A33-36&version=ESV)

And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.” But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent and come out of him!” And when the demon had thrown him down in their midst, he came out of him, having done him no harm. And they were all amazed and said to one another, “What is this word? For with authority and power he commands the unclean spirits, and they come out!”

[revelarts]

Seems it can be either or both.

In some cases it's a powerful mental/emotional defense system.

either way it's a terrible problem.

[fj1200]

Bible clearly states that Jesus cast out demons.

Did I state otherwise? --> "seeming mental illnesses"

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Did I state otherwise? --> "seeming mental illnesses"

Did I cast aspersions that you did state otherwise??

My acknowledgement was in agreement and I linked some examples too. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Did I cast aspersions that you did state otherwise??

My acknowledgement was in agreement and I linked some examples too. -Tyr

OK. Your post seemed superfluous. :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

OK. Your post seemed superfluous. :)

Really? Do you often suggest those agreeing with you and adding more information to support your position as "being unnecessary" or excessive?
If so care to explain why ?
As it goes against common sense and in some cases civility to do that IMHO?
EVEN MORE SO BEING THAT I ADDED LINKED SOURCES IN MY PRESENTATION WHILE YOU SPOKE ONLY OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
The suggestion that my contribution was not needed or excessive seems a bit out there to me. :D--Tyr

[fj1200]

Really? Do you often suggest those agreeing with you and adding more information to support your position as "being unnecessary" or excessive?
If so care to explain why ?
As it goes against common sense and in some cases civility to do that IMHO?
EVEN MORE SO BEING THAT I ADDED LINKED SOURCES IN MY PRESENTATION WHILE YOU SPOKE ONLY OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
The suggestion that my contribution was not needed or excessive seems a bit out there to me. :D--Tyr

At no point did your post suggest agreement with mine. If you had not quoted my post then I would have had no reason to think that you might have had some disagreement and adding information that I did not dispute, nor feel it necessary to add, was indeed superfluous.

But whatever, glad we're in agreement.

[darin]

The Bible isn't clear about most things; what we have in large part is at-the-time understanding of what they observed. Don't get caught up, perhaps, on the words chosen by those translating - or even the author; instead focus on what the author was trying to say.</SPAN>

Regarding Schizophrenia and Demon possession. Schizophrenic people do not always 'hear voices' per se; nor see visions like most folk understand visions. Often they suffer - or actually enjoy - alternate realities where they have importance. I know- very closely - one who decided he remembers being the REAL owner of LA Fitness gym; who has 'spirit children' who are building a house for him (A nearby hotel construction prompted this fantasy). Early on he displayed a little violence; threatening to shoot somebody because the person he wanted to shoot raped a girl, when the person was 5 or 6 years old. He claimed people - his parents - had been trying to kill him since birth; because he could speak as a newborn. He claimed body-doubles came and lived with him in place of his brothers through the years - and the photos of he and his kids growing up PROVED it because the kids looked a little different every year. </SPAN></SPAN>

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

At no point did your post suggest agreement with mine. If you had not quoted my post then I would have had no reason to think that you might have had some disagreement and adding information that I did not dispute, nor feel it necessary to add, was indeed superfluous.

But whatever, glad we're in agreement.

Well golly, being in agreement with you is an ordeal one must be careful about entertaining.
Glad we sorted little foray that out..;) At no point eh? Well please point out where it disagreed then because it surely was not neutral! Linked source totally agreed with your statement IMHO.

By the way, have you considered that when people reply to you they are allowed to express their own view in a manner they see fit and are allowed to present that view to other readers here as well ? Allowed to combine that within one post instead of two..
Maybe that will help in your understanding of other's posts here, that they speak to others as well as the quoted person. I hope that helps and was not too superfluous.. ;)--Tyr

[tailfins]

I was impressed how John Nash adapted to his schizophrenia in the movie "A Beautiful Mind".

[fj1200]

Well golly...

... I hope that helps and was not too superfluous.. ;)--Tyr

Adding information that is not in dispute is by definition superfluous.

[avatar4321]

I've considered this before. I would consider this a likely. But I don't know for sure.

Side question: Does anyone think we have more mentally ill people now than we have in the past? It sure seems that way. I don't have any data for that though.

[Robert A Whit]

So bear with me. I read the question. Was my mother filled by demons?

First consider this. Mom was a very constant member of the Mormon Church and she spent a great deal of time helping other people.

It was early in the Korean war. (speaking of hearing voices)
Uncle Gene had just gone back to Japan after being in combat in the pacific in WW2.

We had no way to know he was one of the first troops to be sent to Korea.

After Mom died in 1980, finally the internet came out and over time I was able to research Gene's records. I found the combat report the day of his death.

Ok, this is what happened.

Mom woke up with a start. She woke up Dad. She in horror told Dad that gene had just contacted her and told her he just died in Korea and in the vision she saw Gene lying face down in a rice paddy and shot to death.

She talked to him.

We had no way to verify. A couple weeks later, Grandma was notified he was killed. Gene's wife called her to tell her.

The day he died?

The day Mom said he did.

Army records proves he died in a rice paddy.

I took the trouble to research Taejon in Korea and also checked up on the time he died.

I took full account of the time zone in Korea vs the time sone where Mom lived.

Everything matched.

So, was Mother hearding a demons voice?

If a Demon could talk to her, why not her own brother?

BTW, Mom had this happen with other family members several other times.

[tailfins]

So, was Mother hearding a demons voice?

If a Demon could talk to her, why not her own brother?

BTW, Mom had this happen with other family members several other times.

Assuming her brother was deceased, it could be a demon IMPERSONATING her brother.

[avatar4321]

I've also been pondering whether mental health issues become worse as a society becomes more wicked. I think it would be difficult to determine cause/effect in that case.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Adding information that is not in dispute is by definition superfluous.

My , my how wrong. I added new information. Since when is new information or information citing other sources , other direct examples superfluous?
If somebody said old muscle cars and I added , Roadrunner, Corvette , etc and additionally posted links to such would that be superfluous? Sure looks to me like it would by the stand that you are taking on it now..-;)

[Robert A Whit]

Assuming her brother was deceased, it could be a demon IMPERSONATING her brother.

I told you he was shot to death. And I also told you that all the FACTS from Army records lined up perfectly. No demons in this case.

[NT'sGirl]

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america/index.shtml

Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.1 (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america/index.shtml#KesslerPrevalence) When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people.2 (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america/index.shtml#CensusBureauTable2) Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness



http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Mental_Illness&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=53155


One in four adults—approximately 57.7 million Americans—
experience a mental health disorder in a given year. One in 17 lives
with a serious mental illness such as schizophrenia, major
depression or bipolar disorderand about one in 10 children live
with a serious mental or emotional disorder.


http://www.samhsa.gov/data/nsduh/2k10MH_Findings/2k10MHResults.htm#1.2




http://www.samhsa.gov/data/nsduh/2k10MH_Findings/gifs/Fig2-8.gif

[fj1200]

My , my how wrong. I added new information. Since when is new information or information citing other sources , other direct examples superfluous?
If somebody said old muscle cars and I added , Roadrunner, Corvette , etc and additionally posted links to such would that be superfluous? Sure looks to me like it would by the stand that you are taking on it now..-;)

'Clearly' it would be if I were not denying their existence.

[NT'sGirl]

So bear with me. I read the question. Was my mother filled by demons?

So, was Mother hearing a demons voice?

If a Demon could talk to her, why not her own brother?

BTW, Mom had this happen with other family members several other times.


I clearly remember when I felt my "gramma" from Jersey, who was 102 that year, come to my kitchen (in Shemeya AK) I could feel her standing next to me like she were really there and she said to me "I just wanted to say I love you one more time" and then was gone

That night my Uncle called to tell me Gram had passed away and I said I know....

Does that make me Demon filled?

I don't think so.... I think Good and Bad have the ablity to move in our world

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Robert A Whit http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=613221#post613221)
So bear with me. I read the question. Was my mother filled by demons?

So, was Mother hearing a demons voice?

If a Demon could talk to her, why not her own brother?

BTW, Mom had this happen with other family members several other times.


NT's girl came to my rescue:I clearly remember when I felt my "gramma" from Jersey, who was 102 that year, come to my kitchen (in Shemeya AK) I could feel her standing next to me like she were really there and she said to me "I just wanted to say I love you one more time" and then was gone

That night my Uncle called to tell me Gram had passed away and I said I know....

Does that make me Demon filled? I don't think so.... I think Good and Bad have the ablity to move in our world

While I have never experienced what you and Mother did, I have heard of other cases.

Some of us are color blind. (Not me though) others are very sensitive to animals. And so forth.

Some are born with scitzophrenia and I believe they see things not there.

But some of us seem to be wired properly to have some sort of contact with a person as you did that just died.

I know Mother did not suffer any mental disorder. When her sister died in the 1920s, she was a little girl. The family was not engaged in religion. Her sister got pneumonia. And was in the nearby hospital. Mother related to the family that as a child, she woke up suddenly in the early hours. And sitting on her bed was the sister in the Hospital who was maybe 2 years older. She spoke to her sister assuming she got out of the hospital. But the sister explained to her she had just died. This alarmed Mother and she told her parents. The parents told her she had a nightmare.

They went to the hospital a few hours later and they had no telephone at their home.

When Grandma and Grandpa arrived at the hospital for their visit, the doctor told them the child had died early that same morning. Grandma sure took Mom serious after that experience.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I clearly remember when I felt my "gramma" from Jersey, who was 102 that year, come to my kitchen (in Shemeya AK) I could feel her standing next to me like she were really there and she said to me "I just wanted to say I love you one more time" and then was gone

That night my Uncle called to tell me Gram had passed away and I said I know....

Does that make me Demon filled?

I don't think so.... I think Good and Bad have the ablity to move in our world

You are correct. Good and bad spirits have the ability to move in our world.

[Kathianne]

I've also been pondering whether mental health issues become worse as a society becomes more wicked. I think it would be difficult to determine cause/effect in that case.

I'm thinking that those that used to be hospitalized are now walking around us now. This was one way to 'unmask mental illness' and close hospitals, saving states millions of dollars. So now we've got folks that 'choose' not to take their meds being homeless and acting crazy. Most just walk by them, but sometimes something snaps and the ignored suddenly becomes violent.

Then there are those 'cared for by families' like the CT shooter. Sometimes that doesn't work out so well.

[Trinity]

I'm thinking that those that used to be hospitalized are now walking around us now. This was one way to 'unmask mental illness' and close hospitals, saving states millions of dollars. So now we've got folks that 'choose' not to take their meds being homeless and acting crazy. Most just walk by them, but sometimes something snaps and the ignored suddenly becomes violent.

Then there are those 'cared for by families' like the CT shooter. Sometimes that doesn't work out so well.

And they have replaced the hospitals, with jails. :coffee: