The quiet liberal plans for entitlement reform

[red states rule]

What a shocker - the Dems plan to save entitlements is tax increases. So if your budget is thin now wait until the Dems get done "fixing" entitlements. After all Dems NEVER consider living with a budget - they have not passed one for over 4 years.

Here are the highlights of the Democratic entitlement reform menu:
Social Security: 'Chained CPI'
Savings: $112 billion
The idea is to change the way the government figures out how much more seniors should get in Social Security benefits each year to account for changes in their cost of living.

Social Security: Lift cap on taxable earnings
Revenues: $500 billion or more
Even if the Democrats accept chained CPI, they’re going to want some goodies in return. One big one: Let the highest earners pay more Social Security payroll taxes.
Right now, employers and workers only pay those payroll taxes (http://1.usa.gov/ThOC2q) on the first $113,700 of income.
Lift the cap so 90 percent of all Americans’ earnings are taxed — it’s only about 83 percent now — and a Social Security deal could raise about $550 billion in revenues over the next 10 years, according to estimates by Third Way, which has endorsed the approach. It would also wipe out Social Security’s deficit through 2020.
The Center for American Progress suggests getting rid of the earnings limit only for employers, but not for employees, so workers wouldn’t see a direct tax increase.
Either way, of course, this idea wouldn’t be a concession to Republicans at all — in fact, it would be a wildly tough sell. Any way it’s designed, it would look like a tax increase.
Social Security: Change the benefit formula
Savings: Would close half of Social Security shortfall
Another big item on the liberals’ agenda would be to change the way Social Security is distributed — giving more to low-income seniors and less to high-income seniors.
Both CAP and Third Way have proposed the option, which they say would strengthen Social Security’s role as a safety net for vulnerable seniors while giving the higher-income ones more incentive to save for their own retirement. It also acknowledges that the seniors who live the longest tend to be the people with high incomes and education levels, according to Van de Water.
The precise amount of savings is unclear — CAP says there’s “no exact estimate” for how much money it would bring in. But a version of the idea was included in the Simpson-Bowles deficit plan (http://dyn.politico.com/bit.ly/fhpoo3), and the commission estimated it would have a powerful effect — getting rid of about half of Social Security’s shortfall within 75 years.

Medicare: Expanded means testing
Savings: $20 billion
Obama has said he won’t consider Medicare changes that would shift costs to seniors, but an expansion of the program’s means testing is the one benefit cut Democrats have hinted they might accept (http://politi.co/WfWdNI) — because it would hit wealthier seniors and spare the rest.

Medicare: Faster payment reforms
Savings: $10 billion
Republicans often complain that Democrats don’t want to make any real changes to bring more money into Medicare — they just want to keep cutting payments to providers. But there’s no real controversy over Obamacare’s incentives to provide more efficient medical care, and that’s where some on the left think there’s potential for common ground — by just beefing up those experiments.

Medicare: Drug rebates
Savings: $135 billion
One of Obama’s biggest Medicare savings ideas would come straight out of the pockets of drug companies — which means he’d face a fight, but probably not from Democrats.
Right now, pharmaceutical companies have to pay a rebate when the government buys prescription drugs for people on Medicaid but not for low-income seniors who qualify for both Medicare and Medicaid. The proposal, which Obama included in his deficit plan, would make the drug manufacturers give the same rebates for these “dual eligibles,” adding up to huge savings for Medicare.
. http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=7CFB03B4-F881-468D-9F44-130AF9DFCA30

[fj1200]

Well, they do have a great track record in addressing symptoms and not causes.

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv012913dAPR20130129024711.jpg

[bingster]

What a shocker - the Dems plan to save entitlements is tax increases. So if your budget is thin now wait until the Dems get done "fixing" entitlements. After all Dems NEVER consider living with a budget - they have not passed one for over 4 years.

A hell of a lot better than voucherizing Medicare. None of the above will hurt seniors anywhere near as much as a voucher.

[fj1200]

A hell of a lot better than voucherizing Medicare. None of the above will hurt seniors anywhere near as much as a voucher.

Are you in denial that Medicare is unsustainable?


As of the most recent Trustees' report in April, the net present value of the unfunded liability of Medicare was $42.8 trillion. The comparable balance sheet liability for Social Security is $20.5 trillion.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578127374039087636.html

Any plan to address that? But no, let's not hurt seniors at the expense of everyone else.

[red states rule]

A hell of a lot better than voucherizing Medicare. None of the above will hurt seniors anywhere near as much as a voucher.

Eh, sorry to break the news to you
Surprise! HHS pilot program to send 2 million poor seniors from Medicare into … “voucher” programs

posted at 11:01 am on September 8, 2012 by Ed Morrissey


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I know that every campaign promise Barack Obama makes has an expiration date … but this is ridiculous. The confetti is barely off the floor at the Time Warner Cable Arena in Charlotte, North Carolina after Obama’s acceptance speech (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dnc-2012-obamas-speech-to-the-democratic-national-convention-full-transcript/2012/09/06/ed78167c-f87b-11e1-a073-78d05495927c_print.html), and already we find out that he’s flip-flopped. Remember this part of the speech, in which he attacks the Paul Ryan plan to apply free-market reform and cost controls to Medicare? http://hotair.com/archives/2012/09/08/surprise-hhs-pilot-program-to-send-2-million-poor-seniors-from-medicare-into-voucher-programs/ and remember what Obama "promised" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCTuFplVQc&feature=player_embedded

[logroller]

Are you in denial that Medicare is unsustainable?


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578127374039087636.html

Any plan to address that? But no, let's not hurt seniors at the expense of everyone else.

I'm not buying any of this hoodoo financial math stuff ....they'll dying in the streets! :lol:

[red states rule]

I'm not buying any of this hoodoo financial math stuff ....they'll dying in the streets! :lol:

Perhaps that will happen when an Obama supporter goes to the bank to cash their government check and it comes up NSF

[logroller]

Perhaps that will happen when an Obama supporter goes to the bank to cash their government check and it comes up NSF
They use ebt cards now. I'd of went with, that'll happen when we are crushed by foreign invaders thanks to defense cutbacks and gun prohibition.

[red states rule]

They use ebt cards now. I'd of went with, that'll happen when we are crushed by foreign invaders thanks to defense cutbacks and gun prohibition.

So the EBT card comes up NSF. I am sure Bush will get blamed anyway

We are broke and libs want to jack up the spending anyway.

LR the defense Dept is full of prok just as every department of government is. But Obama and Dems refuse to consider real CUTS

Hell Ried has yet to pass a budget in over 4 years

How the hell can you cut spending when you do know what the hell you are spending the money on? Which is the objective of Obama in the first place

[logroller]

So the EBT card comes up NSF. I am sure Bush will get blamed anyway

We are broke and libs want to jack up the spending anyway.

LR the defense Dept is full of prok just as every department of government is. But Obama and Dems refuse to consider real CUTS

Hell Ried has yet to pass a budget in over 4 years

How the hell can you cut spending when you do know what the hell you are spending the money on? Which is the objective of Obama in the first place
When you run on a platform of forward with the hope and change you've wrought for four years and win, why change course?
The people don't give a shit anymore; harping on dems, libs and Obama isn't changing that. Time to try a different tactic; else it'll just runs its course...straight into the crapper.

[bingster]

Eh, sorry to break the news to you and remember what Obama "promised" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCTuFplVQc&feature=player_embedded

I'll believe it when I see it on a site more reputable than "hot air". There's nothing on the HHS website and all links look like Drudge type sites.

[bingster]

Eh, sorry to break the news to you and remember what Obama "promised" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCTuFplVQc&feature=player_embedded

This is misleading. The vouchers are going to the states for the states to pay for the insurance for the seniors. The seniors will still be insured.

The voucher plan dems get pissed about is sending the vouchers to the seniors and expecting them to go find insurance. If the state can find the insurance, the seniors will remain covered. Also, this is a test. If it doesn't work, it will be stopped.

This is different, but the article is very misleading. This is not Ryan's original plan.

[bingster]

Are you in denial that Medicare is unsustainable?


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578127374039087636.html

Any plan to address that? But no, let's not hurt seniors at the expense of everyone else.

I don't know what to say about that because it's not getting any coverage. From what I've read so far, the huge deficits have nothing to do with the costs of Medicare or Social Security. The deficit has to do with administrations taking out of those entitlement funds to pay for other things i.e. tax cuts, military,etc... From what I've read, Social Security has been running on a surplus until 2011.

That's why Al Gore got laughed at when he suggested we put the funds in "lock boxes".

[Marcus Aurelius]

A hell of a lot better than voucherizing Medicare. None of the above will hurt seniors anywhere near as much as a voucher.

Why am I not overly surprised you think the idea of vouchers for seniors healthcare would have been mandatory and affected all seniors, as opposed to the reality which was that it would have been voluntary and traditional Medicare would have still been offered for those that wanted it?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I'll believe it when I see it on a site more reputable than "hot air". There's nothing on the HHS website and all links look like Drudge type sites.

dumb ass...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/healthcare/obama-more-flexible-on-medicare-than-rhetoric-suggests-20120908

But back in Washington, his Health and Human Services Department is launching a pilot program that would shift up to 2 million (http://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-and-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination-Office/FinancialModelstoSupportStatesEffortsinCareCoordin ation.html) of the poorest and most-vulnerable seniors out of the federal Medicare program and into private health insurance plans overseen by the states.

The administration has accepted applications from 18 states to participate in the program, which would give states money to purchase managed-care plans for people who are either disabled or poor enough to qualify for both Medicare and Medicaid. HHS approved the first state plan (https://www.cms.gov/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-and-Medicaid-Coordination/Medicare-Medicaid-Coordination-Office/Downloads/MassMOU.pdf), one for Massachusetts (http://www.nationaljournal.com/healthcare/obama-more-flexible-on-medicare-than-rhetoric-suggests-20120908#), last month.
vouchers.

[Robert A Whit]

A hell of a lot better than voucherizing Medicare. None of the above will hurt seniors anywhere near as much as a voucher.

I dunno about that. What does the voucher say?

Suppose the voucher saves a hundred million. And your system saves a hundred million too.

Explain why your system is better?

[fj1200]

I don't know what to say about that because it's not getting any coverage. From what I've read so far, the huge deficits have nothing to do with the costs of Medicare or Social Security. The deficit has to do with administrations taking out of those entitlement funds to pay for other things i.e. tax cuts, military,etc... From what I've read, Social Security has been running on a surplus until 2011.

That's why Al Gore got laughed at when he suggested we put the funds in "lock boxes".

You don't know what to say because "it's not getting any coverage." That is an astounding statement. Are you not able to discern for yourself that something is amiss when the government has made promises that far outstrip the funding for those promises? You might notice that this thread is about entitlement reform, not the current deficits. But as far as that goes we should have been in surplus for many more years before dipping in to the trust fund. So the lack of revenue, made worse by the pointless payroll tax cut, has gutted even further the stability of SS.

Al Gore should have gotten laughed at because I'm sure that he was quite content spending those surpluses as a Senator.

[gabosaurus]

Perhaps the federal government needs to cut the retirement benefits to everyone. Including the military. We should all suffer together.

[bingster]

You don't know what to say because "it's not getting any coverage." That is an astounding statement. Are you not able to discern for yourself that something is amiss when the government has made promises that far outstrip the funding for those promises? You might notice that this thread is about entitlement reform, not the current deficits. But as far as that goes we should have been in surplus for many more years before dipping in to the trust fund. So the lack of revenue, made worse by the pointless payroll tax cut, has gutted even further the stability of SS.

Al Gore should have gotten laughed at because I'm sure that he was quite content spending those surpluses as a Senator.

I don't see what is so astounding about limiting my opinions to what I know about. I wish a lot of other people would be so responsible with their rantings.

It definitely looks like "something" is amiss, but if it's true that the government has been stealing from seniors to pay someone else, I don't think the correct solution would be to further steal from the seniors. That's what conservatives keep advocating: strip more funding from Medicare and Social Security but leave the military alone and don't raise taxes.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't see what is so astounding about limiting my opinions to what I know about. I wish a lot of other people would be so responsible with their rantings.

It definitely looks like "something" is amiss, but if it's true that the government has been stealing from seniors to pay someone else, I don't think the correct solution would be to further steal from the seniors. That's what conservatives keep advocating: strip more funding from Medicare and Social Security but leave the military alone and don't raise taxes.

Here let me help educate you.

Conservative says, strive to learn because its really bad to go through life not knowing , that you don't know--what you don't know!

Liberal says, listen to me, because I damn sure know , what I don't know, that I don't know!!

--- So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men — Voltaire

[bingster]

Here let me help educate you.

Conservative says, strive to learn because its really bad to go through life not knowing , that you don't know--what you don't know!

Liberal says, listen to me, because I damn sure know , what I don't know, that I don't know!!

---So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men — Voltaire

Actually, I don't hear the conservatives promote learning at all. George W used to love to bash the "intellectual elite". Being the only guy in his family with a Texas accent, some believe that accent was contrived to seam "plain spoken". Reagan made an art out of "plain spoken" and who can deny the Sarah Palen "socker mom" wasn't a slap against the intelligensia? Well, the label is beginning to stick, so listen to Bobby Jindal "We need to stop being the stupid party!"

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Actually, I don't hear the conservatives promote learning at all. George W used to love to bash the "intellectual elite". Being the only guy in his family with a Texas accent, some believe that accent was contrived to seam "plain spoken". Reagan made an art out of "plain spoken" and who can deny the Sarah Palen "socker mom" wasn't a slap against the intelligensia? Well, the label is beginning to stick, so listen to Bobby Jindal "We need to stop being the stupid party!"

Ok, I see that the jist of it flew right over your head. I tried.. and did so generously too..-Tyr

[fj1200]

I don't see what is so astounding about limiting my opinions to what I know about. I wish a lot of other people would be so responsible with their rantings.

Perhaps it was your phraseology, my apologies. And I agree.


It definitely looks like "something" is amiss, but if it's true that the government has been stealing from seniors to pay someone else, I don't think the correct solution would be to further steal from the seniors. That's what conservatives keep advocating: strip more funding from Medicare and Social Security but leave the military alone and don't raise taxes.

As I've been trying to explain taxes are a distraction. You also need to understand the unfunded liabilities that we are facing as far as "stealing" from anyone; unsustainable entitlement is unsustainable.

[fj1200]

Actually, I don't hear the conservatives promote learning at all. George W used to love to bash the "intellectual elite". Being the only guy in his family with a Texas accent, some believe that accent was contrived to seam "plain spoken". Reagan made an art out of "plain spoken" and who can deny the Sarah Palen "socker mom" wasn't a slap against the intelligensia? Well, the label is beginning to stick, so listen to Bobby Jindal "We need to stop being the stupid party!"

Don't be ridiculous. Opposition to the "elite" is the false position that the "elite" can govern effectively.

[red states rule]

I'll believe it when I see it on a site more reputable than "hot air". There's nothing on the HHS website and all links look like Drudge type sites.

I know being a loyal Obama foot soldier the truth is hard for you to accept. Here is another source - but I am sure you will not believe it and attack the messenger




snip
Meghan McCarthy of National Journal obtained internal White House emails (http://www.nationaljournal.com/healthcare/mixed-obama-message-on-medicare--20120910) documenting that two key Obama health-care advisers—David Cutler of Harvard and Jonathan Gruber of MIT—proposed that Obama privatize the Medicare program as part of the negotiations surrounding the Bowles-Simpson deficit commission in 2010, in ways that were well to the right of what Mitt Romney has proposed.


“How about this…removing the special status of [traditional] Medicare,” Cutler wrote, according to McCarthy. Obama’s fiscal commission should support “moving the Medicare population into the [Obamacare] exchanges…that would be the same as the voucher” proposed by Rep. Paul Ryan and former Clinton budget Chief Alice Rivlin, in what became known as the Rivlin-Ryan plan (http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/03/14/the-moving-liberal-goalposts-on-medicare-reform/).


Cutler proposed going around Congress to impose Medicare privatization


What’s even more remarkable about Cutler’s suggestion, according to McCarthy, is that Cutler proposed enacting this reform by going around Congress. Cutler proposed using Obamacare’s new Medicare rationing board, the Independent Payment Advisory Board, to impose such a reform upon seniors without Congressional amendment.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/09/13/top-obama-advisers-proposed-voucherizing-medicare-way-back-in-2010/