Repeat of 1986: Citizenship to Come First, Border Security Later [Archive] - Debate Policy

red states rule

01-29-2013, 04:00 AM

Look like amnesty for the undocumented Democrats is going to happen; the border will be an expressway to all the handouts Dems are offering and R's may have signed their own death warrant. I know R's are bellowing the border must be secured - but how many times have we heard that?
A bipartisan group of Republicans and Democrats have just wrapped up a press conference revealing what they are calling the "principles" of an immigration reform plan. The plan will serve as an outline for lawmakers to use when drafting legislation, which is expected to be introduced as early as April 2013. The key to the legislation and the bipartisan nature of the plan is the promise of border security and enforcement in return for a pathway to citizenship. This is the same scenario we saw in 1986 when President Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to three million people and called it a "one time event" under the false promise (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672) the southern border with Mexico would be secured. Today, it was revealed the very same promise is being made with little responsibility to actually follow through. If legislation based on the plan were to be passed, illegal immigrants would be granted citizenship immediately, before the border was deemed secure. "The ability to stay here in America to work and not be harassed will come immediately," New York Senator Chuck Schumer said. "Immediately when the bill passes, people living in the shadows will be brought out [and granted citizenship]."
When Florida Senator Marco Rubio was asked whether border enforcement will come parallel with or before citizenship, he dodged the question.
Arizona Senator John McCain stressed the need to work with states, local government and law enforcement to help with enforcement that isn't guaranteed. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/01/28/repeat-of-1986-citizenship-to-come-first-border-security-later-n1499759

CSM

01-29-2013, 08:03 AM

Charlie Brown; Lucy..... humorous in the comics .... not so funny in real life.

Voted4Reagan

01-29-2013, 08:38 AM

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html)

Albert Einstein (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html)

Thunderknuckles

01-29-2013, 11:04 AM

You know the Republicans will get blasted if they hold this up over border security. My questions is are any of the Republicans shouting that this is the same scam Democrats pulled in the 80's over the air waves? If they are, does anyone care?

This debate was supposed to be over in 86. It was supposed to be THE comprehensive solution then. Since we didn't get border security, it wasn't. We experienced an influx of illegal immigration across the country that we didn't bother stopping. Anyone notice it was about this time that schools started suffering over an increased load of "ESL" students that they couldn't afford and test scores started to drop on average. State economies began to feel the weight of an under educated, low wadge, working class whose living needed to be subsidized.

So, here we are again. Ready to do the same stupid thing all over again.

ConHog

01-29-2013, 11:13 AM

You know the Republicans will get blasted if they hold this up over border security. My questions is are any of the Republicans shouting that this is the same scam Democrats pulled in the 80's over the air waves? If they are, does anyone care?

This debate was supposed to be over in 86. It was supposed to be THE comprehensive solution then. Since we didn't get border security, it wasn't. We experienced an influx of illegal immigration across the country that we didn't bother stopping. Anyone notice it was about this time that schools started suffering over an increased load of "ESL" students that they couldn't afford and test scores started to drop on average. State economies began to feel the weight of an under educated, low wadge, working class whose living needed to be subsidized.

So, here we are again. Ready to do the same stupid thing all over again.

I'm all for amnesty for the ones already here. Damn, we aint gonna get rid of me anyway. But god damn close the border first. There has to be a limit.

Nukeman

01-29-2013, 11:16 AM

I'm all for amnesty for the ones already here. Damn, we aint gonna get rid of me anyway. But god damn close the border first. There has to be a limit.

Thhis has ALREADY been attempted.. It didn't work than and it WILL NOT work now due to the pourus border!!! Te flow has to be stopped before any meaningful actions can be taken!!!!!!

Little-Acorn

01-29-2013, 11:23 AM

You know the Republicans will get blasted if they hold this up over border security.

And this is different from how they are normally treated, how......??

fj1200

01-29-2013, 11:27 AM

You know the Republicans will get blasted if they hold this up over border security.

They'll get blasted by touting the wrong solution... who am I kidding they'll get blasted either way but they should still make the correct argument. I think they need to start talking about managing the country for actual citizens. By continually allowing in undercutting competitors for the jobs that we have they are consigning the poor and unemployed to more of the same. If there are jobs that will still be unfilled then they can offer a plan of temporary worker visas that allow in foreign workers while still tracking their whereabouts and approved employers.

Little-Acorn

01-29-2013, 11:28 AM

I'm all for amnesty for the ones already here.

So the people who broke our laws and came in illegally, get the good results? While the people who obeyed our laws, applied for permission and visas through the proper channels, and are still waiting and waiting as they have been told to, get the shaft?

I have a problem with this.

Sounds to me like the only requirement for this new class of immigrant residents, and eventually citizens, is that they be willing and able to violate American laws. While the ones we decide to exclude, are the ones who cooperate, obey the law, and "do it right".

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

ConHog

01-29-2013, 11:59 AM

So the people who broke our laws and came in illegally, get the good results? While the people who obeyed our laws, applied for permission and visas through the proper channels, and are still waiting and waiting as they have been told to, get the shaft?

I have a problem with this.

Sounds to me like the only requirement for this new class of immigrant residents, and eventually citizens, is that they be willing and able to violate American laws. While the ones we decide to exclude, are the ones who cooperate, obey the law, and "do it right".

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Let me be clear that the ONLY reason I am okay with amnesty for those already here is that I feel it would cost more to actually try to chase them down than any value we would get from doing so.

That being said , I don't believe amnesty should be an option as long as the borders are open. We're basically just saying "come on over"

Let me also add that I think that if amnesty is made available I think registering with the INS should be mandatory and that long jail sentences should be handed out to those who don't.

And of course anyone who is an obvious detriment to society should be ineligible for amnesty.

If you're a hard working person who has lived here for ten years and you are doing your best to be a good citizen, I'm okay with you staying here.

We have a lot of illegals where I live, some good , some bad. The bad ones should be removed. The good ones, I'd rather have them here than some of the "good old boys" who were born here.

Trigg

01-29-2013, 12:08 PM

This has been done before, didn't work then and it won't work now. We will simply be offering amnesty as a solution to the problem in another 30 years. There is no reason to deport or "find" 11 million people. If they have no jobs or ways of making money THEY WILL LEAVE ON THEIR OWN. Substantial fines for businesses caught not using e-verify, should be the first step.

Little-Acorn

01-29-2013, 12:17 PM

Let me be clear that the ONLY reason I am okay with amnesty for those already here is that I feel it would cost more to actually try to chase them down than any value we would get from doing so.

Liberals use that exact reason, to oppose supporting the U.S. military.

So you're in good company.

We have a "Depatment of Justice". And it's called that (and not called the "Department of Saving Money") for a reason.

Your stance is invalid. And is nothing but a surrender.

Again, you're in good company.

tailfins

01-29-2013, 12:19 PM

Any plan that includes a path to citizenship is scheme to import socialist voters. Hugo Chavez, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, Daniel Ortega, Evo Morales, Christina Kirchner and Dilma Roussef would be happy to supply as many as needed.

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 12:36 PM

Reminds me of an article I read yesterday from Illinois - about how illegal immigrants now have rights like everyone else to get drivers licenses. WTF? Rights for illegal? LOL They shouldn't get jack shit until they are legal. No other criminal gets coddled and laws changed an such to avoid prosecution, and neither should illegals.

ConHog

01-29-2013, 01:01 PM

Reminds me of an article I read yesterday from Illinois - about how illegal immigrants now have rights like everyone else to get drivers licenses. WTF? Rights for illegal? LOL They shouldn't get jack shit until they are legal. No other criminal gets coddled and laws changed an such to avoid prosecution, and neither should illegals.

I support allowing them to get DL. The difference is I also support the Real ID Act, which Obama and company have been putting off for years. Under the Real ID Act a DL would NOT in and of itself be proof of citizenship, it would allow police and such to run an ID and find out though.

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 01:06 PM

I support allowing them to get DL.

Not surprising. I don't think illegals should get any rights or privileges afforded to the law abiding Americans.

ConHog

01-29-2013, 01:18 PM

Not surprising. I don't think illegals should get any rights or privileges afforded to the law abiding Americans.

Much the same as criminals are going to get guns no matter what you do, illegals are going to drive, no matter what you do.

May as well get them licensed and insured.

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 01:20 PM

Much the same as criminals are going to get guns no matter what you do, illegals are going to drive, no matter what you do.

May as well get them licensed and insured.

I think we should prosecute criminals. We don't make allowances and give help to gun criminals to be within the law, we shouldn't do it for those sneaking here illegally.

tailfins

01-29-2013, 01:22 PM

Not surprising. I don't think illegals should get any rights or privileges afforded to the law abiding Americans.

Very clever wording there. Illegals deserve at least some rights afforded to non-law abiding Americans. Or are you in favor of giving wood shampoos?

Trigg

01-29-2013, 01:26 PM

With unemployment still up close to 8% and unemployment for blacks at 14% this is the wrong time to add 11 million more people, all competing for positions.

Not to mention the SLOW semi recovery we are having. I would assume that all these new citizens would then be able to go on welfare and get food stamps when they are unable to find employment.

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 01:32 PM

Very clever wording there. Illegals deserve at least some rights afforded to non-law abiding Americans. Or are you in favor of giving wood shampoos?

The ONLY thing criminals deserve - is prosecution.

ConHog

01-29-2013, 01:40 PM

I think we should prosecute criminals. We don't make allowances and give help to gun criminals to be within the law, we shouldn't do it for those sneaking here illegally.

Just to clear something up, being here illegally is a CIVIL offense, not a CRIMINAL offense. They are not CRIMINALS simply for being here without documentation.

If you'd rather play the game of pretend like if we don't license them they won't partake of the privelege of driving that's on you. Myself , I'd rather have them licensed and insured.

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 01:46 PM

Just to clear something up, being here illegally is a CIVIL offense, not a CRIMINAL offense. They are not CRIMINALS simply for being here without documentation.

If you'd rather play the game of pretend like if we don't license them they won't partake of the privelege of driving that's on you. Myself , I'd rather have them licensed and insured.

I don't think illegal immigration is a game at all. But I also don't think we should just shrug our shoulders and give in to criminals when things seem overwhelming.

Oh, and it IS a federal crime - http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325

ConHog

01-29-2013, 01:50 PM

I don't think illegal immigration is a game at all. But I also don't think we should just shrug our shoulders and give in to criminals when things seem overwhelming.

Oh, and it IS a federal crime - http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325

It's a CIVIL violation of the federal penal code

That's why the punishment is deportation rather than jail time, unless of course crimes have been committed.

Now if you prefer to make it a criminal offense that includes jail time, I agree. But obviously we can't even attempt to jail 20 million people. Let's get the borders shut, get those who are here properly papered or removed from the country if need be, then start prosecuting being here without documentation as a CRIMINAL offense.

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 01:59 PM

It's a CIVIL violation of the federal penal code

That's why the punishment is deportation rather than jail time, unless of course crimes have been committed.

Now if you prefer to make it a criminal offense that includes jail time, I agree. But obviously we can't even attempt to jail 20 million people. Let's get the borders shut, get those who are here properly papered or removed from the country if need be, then start prosecuting being here without documentation as a CRIMINAL offense.

The law is the law. Or are you suggesting that since it's civil that therefore it should be less respected, or ignored? What other laws that may be in such huge numbers are there, that you think we should also ignore or change to fix the issue? And while I feel at the very least these people should be sent back, to come back legally, I certainly don't believe we should be extending rights or privileges to them. "Sure, here, have a drivers license to get to the job you work without paying taxes".

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 02:05 PM

How many other people committing "civil violations" get handcuffs and a cell, until deportation?

ConHog

01-29-2013, 02:06 PM

The law is the law. Or are you suggesting that since it's civil that therefore it should be less respected, or ignored?

I didn't say ignored, I said changed.

What other laws that may be in such huge numbers are there, that you think we should also ignore or change to fix the issue?

Marijuana posession
Prostitution
gambling laws

just to name a few

And while I feel at the very least these people should be sent back, to come back legally, I certainly don't believe we should be extending rights or privileges to them. "Sure, here, have a drivers license to get to the job you work without paying taxes".

Suggesting that DL be handed out is not suggesting that they should be allowed to avoid taxes Jim.

Do you realize that the VAST majority of illegals in fact work at jobs that collect income tax? Here in Arkansas Tysons gets caught up a lot because what happens is they collect the information , they don't verify it and it turns out that person used a social security number that wasn't theirs so they paid taxes out of their income all year long, but of course couldn't file at the end of the year.

There are some who work at cash jobs. Just like there are some Americans who do so, they should be prosecuted for the criminal offense, as should their employers.

Little-Acorn

01-29-2013, 02:16 PM

Reminds me of an article I read yesterday from Illinois - about how illegal immigrants now have rights like everyone else

They have the right to remain silent.

They have the right to an attorney.

If they cannot afford an attorney, they have the right to have one appointed by the court......

jimnyc

01-29-2013, 02:17 PM

They have the right to remain silent.

They have the right to an attorney.

If they cannot afford an attorney, they have the right to have one appointed by the court......

'Cept that, unfortunately, it rarely reaches that point anymore. :(

red states rule

01-30-2013, 03:20 AM

Reminds me of an article I read yesterday from Illinois - about how illegal immigrants now have rights like everyone else to get drivers licenses. WTF? Rights for illegal? LOL They shouldn't get jack shit until they are legal. No other criminal gets coddled and laws changed an such to avoid prosecution, and neither should illegals.

Jim, the REAL reason Dems demanded illegals be allowed to obtain drivers license is so they can vote. I do give Dems credit they are like Stalin and always seem to have a 30 years plan. First Dems came up with Motor Voter where you and I could sign up to vote when we renewed or obtained our first drives license. Then came the demand for illegals. So when the illegal go to the DMV to get their license they are registered to vote. Now I know one poster here bellowed that illegals do not vote in our elections, but can anyone show me where any state checks to verify illegals are NOT being registered when they get their drivers license? The bottom line is, this is a massive voter registration effort on the part of Dems to create a base larger then then the black vote. And Dems will keep the illegals in the permanent underclass like have a majority of blacks so they can keep the handouts coming in exchange for their support on Election Day

red states rule

01-30-2013, 03:21 AM

They have the right to remain silent.

They have the right to an attorney.

If they cannot afford an attorney, they have the right to have one appointed by the court......

and they have the right to breath and a one way trip back to their native country

red states rule

01-30-2013, 03:41 AM

and as usual the liberal media is showing its unwavering support for Obama's amnesty plan and how they will "report" on anyone who opposes it [QUOTE]
<iframe width="500" height="290" title="MRC TV video player" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/119702" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

CSM

01-30-2013, 08:14 AM

Hmmm...giving illegals a driver's license because they will drive anyway is akin to saying give criminals guns because they are going to get them anyway. Hey, at least the guns would be registered, right?

Trigg

01-30-2013, 01:09 PM

Let me be clear that the ONLY reason I am okay with amnesty for those already here is that I feel it would cost more to actually try to chase them down than any value we would get from doing so.

That being said , I don't believe amnesty should be an option as long as the borders are open. We're basically just saying "come on over"

Let me also add that I think that if amnesty is made available I think registering with the INS should be mandatory and that long jail sentences should be handed out to those who don't.

And of course anyone who is an obvious detriment to society should be ineligible for amnesty.

If you're a hard working person who has lived here for ten years and you are doing your best to be a good citizen, I'm okay with you staying here.

We have a lot of illegals where I live, some good , some bad. The bad ones should be removed. The good ones, I'd rather have them here than some of the "good old boys" who were born here.

you need to pick a side because in another thread "citizenship" you say that there shouldn't even be borders.

tailfins

01-30-2013, 01:11 PM

and they have the right to breath and a one way trip back to their native country

So you support wood shampoo? If you don't know what it is, you can look it up.

red states rule

01-30-2013, 06:56 PM

So you support wood shampoo? If you don't know what it is, you can look it up.

Where did I call for acts of violence on illegals? All I am saying they are entitled to a trip back to their native country. I understand Dems see the illegals as a bigger voting block then the black vote but Dems seem to have difficulty understanding what the word "illegal" means

ConHog

01-30-2013, 08:21 PM

you need to pick a side because in another thread "citizenship" you say that there shouldn't even be borders.

I didnt say no borders. I said free travel through checkpoints

Kathianne

01-30-2013, 08:44 PM

I didnt say no borders. I said free travel through checkpoints

So you are saying that today, those with visas from Mexico to US are not allowed in? Or are you saying that an announcement will end the illegal crossings?

What exactly are you encouraging?

red states rule

01-31-2013, 02:49 AM

So you are saying that today, those with visas from Mexico to US are not allowed in? Or are you saying that an announcement will end the illegal crossings?

What exactly are you encouraging?

With that kind of "logic" Taco Bell would quickly become the nations phone company

bingster

01-31-2013, 07:59 PM

So the people who broke our laws and came in illegally, get the good results? While the people who obeyed our laws, applied for permission and visas through the proper channels, and are still waiting and waiting as they have been told to, get the shaft?

I have a problem with this.

Sounds to me like the only requirement for this new class of immigrant residents, and eventually citizens, is that they be willing and able to violate American laws. While the ones we decide to exclude, are the ones who cooperate, obey the law, and "do it right".

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally

taft2012

01-31-2013, 09:14 PM

Look like amnesty for the undocumented Democrats is going to happen; the border will be an expressway to all the handouts Dems are offering and R's may have signed their own death warrant. I know R's are bellowing the border must be secured - but how many times have we heard that?

It's kind of like gun control. This country now only wants to pass laws that will impact those who actually obey laws.

Immigration laws are laws that no one will obey, so instead of enforcing them, repeal them.

bingster

01-31-2013, 10:47 PM

With unemployment still up close to 8% and unemployment for blacks at 14% this is the wrong time to add 11 million more people, all competing for positions.

Not to mention the SLOW semi recovery we are having. I would assume that all these new citizens would then be able to go on welfare and get food stamps when they are unable to find employment.

The problem with that is that THEY ARE ALREADY HERE. Most of them are paying payroll taxes and social security. Make the rest of them citizens and you'll get more payroll taxes and social security.

bingster

01-31-2013, 10:50 PM

I think we should prosecute criminals. We don't make allowances and give help to gun criminals to be within the law, we shouldn't do it for those sneaking here illegally.

So you're with the self-deportation crowd. I think Conhog's take is more sensible.

You do help the criminals get guns by thwarting efforts to get universal background checks. You are the criminals best buddies and terrorist love you too.

red states rule

02-01-2013, 03:09 AM

So you're with the self-deportation crowd. I think Conhog's take is more sensible.

You do help the criminals get guns by thwarting efforts to get universal background checks. You are the criminals best buddies and terrorist love you too.

It is amazing that so many people fail to understand what the word "illegal" means. But as long as they can be "undocumented Democrats" many are willing to overlook that minor detail

red states rule

02-01-2013, 03:45 AM

Chuck U Schumer has spoken and made my case for me

We want the border to be secure. It’s more secure than it was several years ago, but it has a ways to go. And different sectors need different types of security. It’s a lot different having security in the Tucson sector than off the stretch in Texas, which is bounded by the Rio Grande,” Schumer said on Thursday.

“But we’re not using border security as an excuse or block to the path of citizenship. We just want to make sure — and this is very important both substantively and politically — that there is a secure border, and we’re going to work for that. But it’s not — and Dick [Durbin] and I and Bob [Menendez], as well as our three Republican friends, want to make sure the border’s secure but not to use it as a barrier to prevent the 11 million from eventually gaining a path to citizenship.”

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/31/chuck-schumer-i-refuse-to-let-border-security-become-a-barrier-to-citizenship-for-illegals/

CSM

02-01-2013, 08:11 AM

So you're with the self-deportation crowd. I think Conhog's take is more sensible.

You do help the criminals get guns by thwarting efforts to get universal background checks. You are the criminals best buddies and terrorist love you too.

That's some stretch of logic for sure. I guess women help rapists because they are not covered head to toe. How about making those who commit crimes RESPONSIBLE for the crime? Is it any wonder why the country is so divided when this is the type of discourse we hear constantly?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

02-01-2013, 11:10 AM

The problem with that is that THEY ARE ALREADY HERE. Most of them are paying payroll taxes and social security. Make the rest of them citizens and you'll get more payroll taxes and social security.

Your presentation that they already committed the Crime and now should not be punished should maybe be applied to all crimes just to be fair. So with that in mind, we would have this, the rapist having not been caught in a number of years can now be excused for his minor transgressions and brag about it while scouting for future victims..
How's that for applying your lunacy ? Now just substitute the word rapist with , bank robber, car thief, child molester , murderer , etc..
Your view is actually laughable IMHO.
GRANTED THAT IT'S THE LIBERAL/LEFTIST BULLSHAT VIEW BUT STILL IT'S LAUGHABLE TO ANYBODY NOT STUPID AND/OR BRAINWASHED.

WE EITHER HAVE LAWS OR WE DO NOT, THE RULE OF LAW CAN NOT BE DISMISSED ,SELECTIVELY IGNORED AT THE WHIMS OF THE IGNORANT PUBLIC. THAT IS WHAT YOU SUGGEST.. -TYR

gabosaurus

02-01-2013, 11:22 AM

I support allowing them to get DL. The difference is I also support the Real ID Act, which Obama and company have been putting off for years. Under the Real ID Act a DL would NOT in and of itself be proof of citizenship, it would allow police and such to run an ID and find out though.

The "Real ID" thing is part of illegals registering with the government. It would be part of the background checks required.
As I have said before, illegals only cross the boarder to get jobs. If no one hired them, illegals wouldn't bother.
It's like having an ant problem. You have to find the source of the food. You can temporarily get rid of the ants, but without eliminating the food source, the ants will always return.
Trouble is, companies that hire illegals know how to work the legal system. Their workers do not.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

02-01-2013, 11:26 AM

The "Real ID" thing is part of illegals registering with the government. It would be part of the background checks required.
As I have said before, illegals only cross the boarder to get jobs. If no one hired them, illegals wouldn't bother.
It's like having an ant problem. You have to find the source of the food. You can temporarily get rid of the ants, but without eliminating the food source, the ants will always return.
Trouble is, companies that hire illegals know how to work the legal system. Their workers do not.

HA, their workers bring over family that then work the government dole system. Costing the taxpayers billions, you ignore that because, well, --- you just aren't too bright IMHO.-TYR

bingster

02-01-2013, 11:41 AM

That's some stretch of logic for sure. I guess women help rapists because they are not covered head to toe. How about making those who commit crimes RESPONSIBLE for the crime? Is it any wonder why the country is so divided when this is the type of discourse we hear constantly?

Like so many issues we've discussed, people fail to look at reality. There are 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country and there is no way in hell we're going to deport them all. Obama has already deported almost as many in his first term as George W. deported in two terms. I've seen figures of 8 and 11 billion dollars spent on the border last year and the immigration rate is almost at net zero. Let's make a little more headway on the border, and provide the immigrants a path to citizenship. You can keep denying reality, but it won't move us forward.

bingster

02-01-2013, 11:44 AM

Your presentation that they already committed the Crime and now should not be punished should maybe be applied to all crimes just to be fair. So with that in mind, we would have this, the rapist having not been caught in a number of years can now be excused for his minor transgressions and brag about it while scouting for future victims..
How's that for applying your lunacy ? Now just substitute the word rapist with , bank robber, car thief, child molester , murderer , etc..
Your view is actually laughable IMHO.
GRANTED THAT IT'S THE LIBERAL/LEFTIST BULLSHAT VIEW BUT STILL IT'S LAUGHABLE TO ANYBODY NOT STUPID AND/OR BRAINWASHED.

WE EITHER HAVE LAWS OR WE DO NOT, THE RULE OF LAW CAN NOT BE DISMISSED ,SELECTIVELY IGNORED AT THE WHIMS OF THE IGNORANT PUBLIC. THAT IS WHAT YOU SUGGEST.. -TYR

They'll pay a fine and back taxes. What do you want to do, spank them? As for liberal, this has never been a liberal issue until now. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million. George W was twice as popular with Hispanics than Romney was because of George's attention to this matter and John McCain has been working on this for years.

 "I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally," Ronald Reagan.

red states rule

02-06-2013, 02:33 AM

The "Real ID" thing is part of illegals registering with the government. It would be part of the background checks required.
As I have said before, illegals only cross the boarder to get jobs. If no one hired them, illegals wouldn't bother.
It's like having an ant problem. You have to find the source of the food. You can temporarily get rid of the ants, but without eliminating the food source, the ants will always return.
Trouble is, companies that hire illegals know how to work the legal system. Their workers do not.

They also come here for all the handout libs are willing to give them in exchange for their vote

BTW Gabby what is the deficit for your beloved state of CA?

Antonovich: LA County Cost for Illegal Aliens is $1.6 Billion Per Year

Bet you did not see this in the mainstream media:

““With the $550 million for public safety and nearly $500 million for healthcare, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers exceeds $1.6 billion dollars a year,” said Antonovich. “These costs do not include the hundreds of millions of dollars for education.”

To put that in perspective, Guv Brown just cut education, statewide, by $700 million—less than half the cost of illegal aliens in LA County.

In total, statewide, the real cost of illegal aliens is approximately $21 billion—at all levels of government—and that equals the current cash deficit of the State!
Nor does it take into consideration the costs of honest Californians not working, going on unemployment and welfare.
Since the mainstream media won’t tell you about the costs of illegal aliens, the California Political News and Views will.

WELFARE COSTS FOR CHILDREN OF ILLEGAL ALIENS EXCEEDS $646 MILLION

LOS ANGELES COUNTY – Year-end closing 2011 figures from the Department of Public Social Services reported that over $646 million in welfare and food stamp benefits were issued to illegal alien parents for their native-born children, announced Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich.

The $646.2 million consisted of $258 million in CalWORKs (welfare) and $388 million in Food Stamps) — a $21 million increase over the previous year.

“With the $550 million for public safety and nearly $500 million for healthcare, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers exceeds $1.6 billion dollars a year,” said Antonovich. “These costs do not include the hundreds of millions of dollars for education.”

http://capoliticalnews.com/2012/03/06/antonovich-la-county-cost-for-illegal-aliens-is-1-6-billion-per-year/

red states rule

02-06-2013, 03:27 AM

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg020513dAPR20130205084530.jpg

bingster

02-06-2013, 06:30 PM

Your presentation that they already committed the Crime and now should not be punished should maybe be applied to all crimes just to be fair. So with that in mind, we would have this, the rapist having not been caught in a number of years can now be excused for his minor transgressions and brag about it while scouting for future victims..
How's that for applying your lunacy ? Now just substitute the word rapist with , bank robber, car thief, child molester , murderer , etc..
Your view is actually laughable IMHO.
GRANTED THAT IT'S THE LIBERAL/LEFTIST BULLSHAT VIEW BUT STILL IT'S LAUGHABLE TO ANYBODY NOT STUPID AND/OR BRAINWASHED.

WE EITHER HAVE LAWS OR WE DO NOT, THE RULE OF LAW CAN NOT BE DISMISSED ,SELECTIVELY IGNORED AT THE WHIMS OF THE IGNORANT PUBLIC. THAT IS WHAT YOU SUGGEST.. -TYR

I appreciate and respect everyone's principles on this issue, but it's not rape, bank robbery, car theft, etc.... I'll bet if you were born in Mexico and went through what some of these immigrants went through, you'd be here illegally also. They just want to live and support their families.

The basic difference between you and I is what is practical. Tea Partiers in their historical ignorance have compared Obama to Hitler. Can you imagine what a Stalinistic leader it would require to boot out 11 million Mexicans out of our country? Try to imagine that for a minute. Add to that the probability that the estimate may be low, some have said the numbers are closer to 20 million. Not since the trail of tears has this country done anything so ugly as would be the expulsion of 11 to 20 million people back across the boarder.

You can argue principles until you're blue in the face, but the only practical solution is to get more money out of them and get them into the system.

bingster

02-06-2013, 06:34 PM

They also come here for all the handout libs are willing to give them in exchange for their vote

BTW Gabby what is the deficit for your beloved state of CA?

This is just another article that doesn't take into account payroll taxes and social security taxes paid by undocumented workers. That's like measuring how much your job costs you every year without counting your take home pay.

cadet

02-06-2013, 06:36 PM

I appreciate and respect everyone's principles on this issue, but it's not rape, bank robbery, car theft, etc.... I'll bet if you were born in Mexico and went through what some of these immigrants went through, you'd be here illegally also. They just want to live and support their families.

The basic difference between you and I is what is practical. Tea Partiers in their historical ignorance have compared Obama to Hitler. Can you imagine what a Stalinistic leader it would require to boot out 11 million Mexicans out of our country? Try to imagine that for a minute. Add to that the probability that the estimate may be low, some have said the numbers are closer to 20 million. Not since the trail of tears has this country done anything so ugly as would be the expulsion of 11 to 20 million people back across the boarder.

You can argue principles until you're blue in the face, but the only practical solution is to get more money out of them and get them into the system.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/01/04/hospitals-stuck-with-illegal-immigrant-uninsured-permanent-patients-at-massive-cost/

An unpleasant new report claims that many hospitals in major metro areas are struggling with the growing problem of “permanent patients.”
What’s a “permanent patient”? According to the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/03/nyregion/nowhere-to-go-patients-linger-in-hospitals-at-a-high-cost.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss) they are mostly illegal immigrants or people who lack insurance or their own housing that the hospital cannot turn away.
The Times defines a “permanent patient”:

…[someone who has] been languishing for months or even years in…hospitals, despite being well enough to be sent home or to nursing centers for less-expensive care, because they are illegal immigrants or lack sufficient insurance or appropriate housing.
Of course, having dozens of patients hanging around that long means these hospitals are absorbing the bill for millions of dollars in unreimbursed expenses annually.
Unsurprisingly, the majority of these “permanent patients” are illegal immigrants because, as mentioned in the above, they have no housing or family in the area.

..........................

She says that there were about 300 patients in such a predicament throughout the New York City area alone, most in public hospitals or higher-priced skilled public nursing homes, though a few were in private hospitals, according to the Times.
“Many of those individuals no longer need that care, but because they have no resources and many have no family here, we, unfortunately, are caring for them in a much more expensive setting than necessary based on their clinical need,” said Brown.
The report goes on to cite an example where one patient from Queens, NY, has been at the Coler-Goldwater Specialty Hospital and Nursing Facility (http://www.nyc.gov/html/hhc/coler-goldwater/) for 13 years because the hospital has no place to send him.
The patient, who is in his mid-60s, has been there since an arterial disease cost him part of one leg below the knee and left him in a wheelchair, according to the report.
Or another example:

Five years ago, Yu Kang Fu, 58, who lived in Flushing, Queens, and was a cook at a Chinese restaurant in New Jersey, was dropped off by his boss at New York Downtown Hospital, a private institution in Manhattan, complaining of a severe headache (http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/symptoms/headache/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier). Mr. Yu was admitted to the intensive-care unit with a stroke.
Mr. Yu remained in the hospital for over four years until he was transferred last spring to the Atlantis Rehabilitation and Residential Health Care Facility, a private center in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, after the federal government certified him as a “permanent resident under color of law,” essentially acknowledging that he could not be returned to China and qualifying him for medical benefits.
“This gentleman cost us millions of dollars,” said Jeffrey Menkes, the president of New York Downtown. “We try to provide physical, occupational therapy, but this is an acute-care hospital. This patient shouldn’t be here.”
The fact of the matter is that hospitals in metro areas that host a large illegal immigrant population are unable to turn away patients who have neither insurance nor proof that they are in the United States legally– two things necessary for discharge purposes and reimbursements, said Chui Man Lai, assistant vice president of patient services at a New York state hospital.
“These patients often arrive in the emergency room acutely ill and unaccompanied, and we have to treat them until they can be discharged safely,” Ms. Lai said. “The hospital is required, by law and its mission, to care for these patients.”

bingster

02-06-2013, 06:48 PM

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/01/04/hospitals-stuck-with-illegal-immigrant-uninsured-permanent-patients-at-massive-cost/

Same as I said before, what about sales taxes, payroll taxes, social security taxes, etc...

Are you making a case for true universal health care? Many of the people talked about in your article are just uninsured. This was the case made for Obamacare.

Kathianne

02-06-2013, 06:48 PM

I appreciate and respect everyone's principles on this issue, but it's not rape, bank robbery, car theft, etc.... I'll bet if you were born in Mexico and went through what some of these immigrants went through, you'd be here illegally also. They just want to live and support their families.

The basic difference between you and I is what is practical. Tea Partiers in their historical ignorance have compared Obama to Hitler. Can you imagine what a Stalinistic leader it would require to boot out 11 million Mexicans out of our country? Try to imagine that for a minute. Add to that the probability that the estimate may be low, some have said the numbers are closer to 20 million. Not since the trail of tears has this country done anything so ugly as would be the expulsion of 11 to 20 million people back across the boarder.

You can argue principles until you're blue in the face, but the only practical solution is to get more money out of them and get them into the system.

I don't 'know' who is considered tea partiers today. I do know that 4 years ago, when I was on a founding state committee in IL, the Board of 10, was made up of 4 Dems, 5 Republicans, and 1 Libertarian. Funny thing, the Dems and Reps were to a man and woman, in agreement with all but abortion and federal financial participation in school funding. The Libertarian agreed with the Republicans with all but the wars. Yeah, he disagreed with the Democrats on the war, too!

cadet

02-06-2013, 06:51 PM

Same as I said before, what about sales taxes, payroll taxes, social security taxes, etc...

Are you making a case for true universal health care? Many of the people talked about in your article are just uninsured. This was the case made for Obamacare.

My case was that legal immigration is good for us, illegal is where the problems come from. And it screws us over.
If they want to apply for citizenship, all power to them. But what you and most liberals don't realize is that they already CAN. They choose not to due to the tax that would be forced upon them if they did.
Kick out the ones that are hurting us. Let them try coming over legally so they can actually pay for their crap instead of mooching off of my taxes.

cadet

02-06-2013, 06:55 PM

... Not since the trail of tears has this country done anything so ugly as would be the expulsion of 11 to 20 million people back across the boarder.

You can argue principles until you're blue in the face, but the only practical solution is to get more money out of them and get them into the system.

The trail of tears involved a lot of walking, massive amounts of death, and my great great grandma. Don't you dare compare the two.

Shipping them back in cars and planes is a hell of a lot different then making them walk themselves. And no where near as evil.

Kathianne

02-06-2013, 07:29 PM

Seriously, forget the hyperbole. We're not going to identify and 'repatriate' over 11 million people. Not happening.

bingster

02-06-2013, 09:38 PM

The trail of tears involved a lot of walking, massive amounts of death, and my great great grandma. Don't you dare compare the two.

Shipping them back in cars and planes is a hell of a lot different then making them walk themselves. And no where near as evil.

It was extreme, and I'm sorry. I'm a decendant of the Blue Jacket family of the Shawnee tribe. Yes, they would go in cars, and few would probably die, but this whole concept of mass exodus of millions is ridiculous.

bingster

02-06-2013, 09:44 PM

I don't 'know' who is considered tea partiers today. I do know that 4 years ago, when I was on a founding state committee in IL, the Board of 10, was made up of 4 Dems, 5 Republicans, and 1 Libertarian. Funny thing, the Dems and Reps were to a man and woman, in agreement with all but abortion and federal financial participation in school funding. The Libertarian agreed with the Republicans with all but the wars. Yeah, he disagreed with the Democrats on the war, too!

I couldn't list them, but I've heard about 80 of them are still in the house. Pretty much every time a Republican says something absolutely asinine, chances are, he/she is a tea partier. Michelle Bachman tried to crown herself leader at one point, but I think they thought she was even too ridiculous for them.

According to one leader of one of their groups they are purely economic and have no social or foreign policy views. Economically, though, they are the ones who would stop the vote on the fiscal cliff or debt limit no matter what you cut. They are the most outwardly anti-government of any group since the hippie.

Kathianne

02-06-2013, 10:00 PM

I couldn't list them, but I've heard about 80 of them are still in the house. Pretty much every time a Republican says something absolutely asinine, chances are, he/she is a tea partier. Michelle Bachman tried to crown herself leader at one point, but I think they thought she was even too ridiculous for them.

According to one leader of one of their groups they are purely economic and have no social or foreign policy views. Economically, though, they are the ones who would stop the vote on the fiscal cliff or debt limit no matter what you cut. They are the most outwardly anti-government of any group since the hippie.

Oh, so you are talking about representatives that were purportedly elected by tea partiers. Got it now. You've not a clue to the vernacular your are tossing about.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

02-06-2013, 11:03 PM

I couldn't list them, but I've heard about 80 of them are still in the house. Pretty much every time a Republican says something absolutely asinine, chances are, he/she is a tea partier. Michelle Bachman tried to crown herself leader at one point, but I think they thought she was even too ridiculous for them.

According to one leader of one of their groups they are purely economic and have no social or foreign policy views. Economically, though, they are the ones who would stop the vote on the fiscal cliff or debt limit no matter what you cut. They are the most outwardly anti-government of any group since the hippie.

^^^^^^^ Totally clueless.... :bsflag:. -Tyr

red states rule

02-07-2013, 03:01 AM

This is just another article that doesn't take into account payroll taxes and social security taxes paid by undocumented workers. That's like measuring how much your job costs you every year without counting your take home pay.

and you ignore the fact that most of the illegals are unskilled entry level workers who pay very little in taxes - and many probably get a "refund" on taxes they did not pay (EIC) which is why states like CA are damn near bankrupt. But that facts is irrelevant as all you care about is increasing the number of Dem voters

red states rule

02-07-2013, 04:38 AM

Anyone surprised by this? I'm not

Yesterday during a House Judiciary Committee hearing on Capitol Hill, National Immigration and Customs Enforcement Council 118 of the American Federation of Government Employees President Chris Crane testified that immigration reform isn't about reform at all, but instead is about politics.

"Death or serious injury to ICE officers and agents appears more acceptable to ICE, DHS, and Administration leadership, than the public complaints that would be lodged by special interest groups representing illegal aliens," Crane said.

Crane detailed the massive problems within the agency with enforcement, how illegal aliens lie to work the system, how illegal aliens will lie in order to be granted amnesty and explained how morale within the agency is at an all time low.

"The results from the most recent morale survey for Federal agents were released in December 2012. ICE Dropped in the rankings to 279 out of 291 Federal agencies surveyed leaving only 12 agencies that ranked lower in employee morale and job satisfaction than ICE," Crane said. "While ICE employees are frequently demonized by special interest groups and media outlets, it should be known that many ICE employees are themselves the sons and daughters of immigrants of grandsons and granddaughters of immigrants; or are married to immigrants, or are the proud parents of adopted babies born outside the U.S. For many of our officers, English was not their first language, or they grew up in a bilingual household.....ICE agents are not monsters as some would portray them."

Crane also explained the erosion of the rule of law thanks to special interest groups representing and advocating on behalf of illegal immigrants while agents are often punished for simply enforcing the law. Crane even went so far as to suggest law enforcement has been turned into a joke.

"For the last four years it has been a roller coaster for ICE officers with regard to who they can or cannot arrest, and which federal laws they will be permitted to enforce," Crane said. "Most Americans would be surprised to know that immigration agents are regularly prohibited from enforcing the two most fundamental sections of the Unites States immigration law. According to ICE policy, in most cases immigration agents can no longer arrest persons solely for entering the United States illegally. Additionally, in most cases immigration agents cannot arrest persons solely because they have entered the United State s with a visa and then overstayed that visa and failed to return to their country."

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/02/06/ice-leader-agents-prohibited-from-enforcing-two-most-fundamental-sections-of-us-immigration-law-n1506288

bingster

02-07-2013, 05:29 PM

and you ignore the fact that most of the illegals are unskilled entry level workers who pay very little in taxes - and many probably get a "refund" on taxes they did not pay (EIC) which is why states like CA are damn near bankrupt. But that facts is irrelevant as all you care about is increasing the number of Dem voters

I'm just saying that articles like the one I was referencing only shows one side of the equation to make a point. I'd like to see one that lists numbers from both sides of the balance sheet. Also, I doubt that these folks can even get a tax refund. Remember, their social security numbers are fake.

cadet

02-07-2013, 06:04 PM

I'm just saying that articles like the one I was referencing only shows one side of the equation to make a point. I'd like to see one that lists numbers from both sides of the balance sheet. Also, I doubt that these folks can even get a tax refund. Remember, their social security numbers are fake.

Just remember that illegals already CAN apply for citizenship. Or better yet, COME LEGALLY. But why bother when you get all this free shit? It's a CHOICE. Tax free everything/mooch off taxpayers/free healthcare vs. actually paying taxes.

Making them legal does not help them, they don't want it. Ship em back with a slap on the wrist so they know that you can't screw America over without some consequences.

red states rule

02-08-2013, 03:08 AM

I'm just saying that articles like the one I was referencing only shows one side of the equation to make a point. I'd like to see one that lists numbers from both sides of the balance sheet. Also, I doubt that these folks can even get a tax refund. Remember, their social security numbers are fake.

Bing you do not have to have a PhD to figure out illegals are - and will continue - to bleed this nation dry. They pay very little in taxes and yet take a huge amount in handouts

Here is an article from 2010 so the costs are much higher now

The report states that an amnesty program wouldn’t appreciably increase tax revenue and would cost massive amounts in Social Security (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/politics/social-security.htm) and public assistance expenses. An amnesty “would therefore be an accentuation of the already enormous fiscal burden,” the report concludes.

The single largest cost to the government of illegal immigration, according to the report, is an estimated $52 billion spent on schooling the children of illegals. “Nearly all those costs are absorbed by state and local governments,’ the report states.

Moreover, the study’s breakdown of costs on a state-by-state basis shows that in states with the largest number of illegals, the costs of illegal immigration are often greater than current, crippling budget deficits. In Texas, for example, the additional cost of immigration, $16.4 billion, is equal to the state’s current budget deficit; in California the additional cost of illegal immigration, $21.8 billion, is $8 billion more than the state’s current budget deficit of $13.8 billion; and in New York, the $6.8 billion deficit is roughly two-thirds the $9.5 billion yearly cost of its illegal population, according to Jack Martin, the researcher who completed the study.

“The most important finding of the study is the enormous cost to state and local governments due to lack of enforcement of our immigration laws,” Martin wrote.

The report found that the federal government paid $28.6 billion in illegal related costs, and state and local governments paid $84.2 billion on an estimated 13 million undocumented residents. In his speech, Obama estimated that there are 11 million.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/#ixzz2KLtDk7Lo

bingster

02-08-2013, 05:39 PM

Bing you do not have to have a PhD to figure out illegals are - and will continue - to bleed this nation dry. They pay very little in taxes and yet take a huge amount in handouts

Here is an article from 2010 so the costs are much higher now

Another conservative think tank study that ignores taxes paid.

California receives 2.7 billion/year in assorted taxes
And Social Security received $12 Billion in 2007.
If they were documented the amounts would be much higher.
4487
Also, I wonder if the $28.6 Billion in "illegal related costs" was actually border enforcement. Are you expecting them to pay that too?

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2011/05/taxes-paid-by-undocumented-workers.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/02/AR2010090202673.html

jimnyc

02-08-2013, 05:42 PM

Toss them all out on their butts, or have them do work detail for a long time, like criminals, to payoff for their misdeeds.

bingster

02-08-2013, 07:36 PM

Bing you do not have to have a PhD to figure out illegals are - and will continue - to bleed this nation dry. They pay very little in taxes and yet take a huge amount in handouts

Here is an article from 2010 so the costs are much higher now

I've mentioned this before, but I'm sure you refuse to believe it. If you think the immigrants are going to bleed this country dry, why is it that our poorest states have the lowest level of immigrants? How come it's always the red states that pay the least amount of federal income taxes? How come most of the debtor states are red states? Believing your formula, California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas should all be debtor states or at least among the lowest states in paying income taxes, but they're not. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia are. I don't want to stereotype, but there is a huge number of poor whites in the southern states that conservatives imagine don't exist so they can bash 'dem dam illegals!!! Well, y'aller full of it.

red states rule

02-09-2013, 06:26 AM

I've mentioned this before, but I'm sure you refuse to believe it. If you think the immigrants are going to bleed this country dry, why is it that our poorest states have the lowest level of immigrants? How come it's always the red states that pay the least amount of federal income taxes? How come most of the debtor states are red states? Believing your formula, California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas should all be debtor states or at least among the lowest states in paying income taxes, but they're not. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia are. I don't want to stereotype, but there is a huge number of poor whites in the southern states that conservatives imagine don't exist so they can bash 'dem dam illegals!!! Well, y'aller full of it.

BIng, our prisons are full of illegals. The welfare rolls are loaded with illegals sucking money from the US taxpayers. Those that do work are entry level low paid workers. The dollar amount they pay in taxes are small compared to any benefits they collect

Besides these are welfare checks intended for US CITIZENS

As with unions, your ONLY concern is getting illegals amnesty so you get more campaign donations and more votes for Dems. You really do not a damn about the impact on the US taxpayer and the economy. I am sure those unemployed US citizens are delighted with Dems adding 10 million or more people looking for work in the Obama economy.

With liberals like you Bing the end justify the means

fj1200

02-09-2013, 06:38 AM

I've mentioned this before... How come it's always the red states that pay the least amount of federal income taxes?

Why?

red states rule

02-09-2013, 06:44 AM

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/SalsJewel/MakingIllegalIllegal.jpg

bingster

02-09-2013, 06:25 PM

Why?

I believe at least 2/3 if not more of Romney's "47%" are Republicans. I think it's an unfair stereotype to assume only liberals live off of the public teat. The same ones who say this also say we're "over-educated". Isn't that a hoot? How can we be "dumb asses" and over-educated and broke all at the same time?

I believe some posters are honestly concerned about what harm "amnesty" could cause to our economy. That's why I continue to point out the aspects that are missing from the debate. Some, however, just take every opportunity to spew hate and anger at anyone who is different than they are.

red states rule

02-09-2013, 06:28 PM

I believe at least 2/3 if not more of Romney's "47%" are Republicans. I think it's an unfair stereotype to assume only liberals live off of the public teat. The same ones who say this also say we're "over-educated". Isn't that a hoot? How can we be "dumb asses" and over-educated and broke all at the same time?

I believe some posters are honestly concerned about what harm "amnesty" could cause to our economy. That's why I continue to point out the aspects that are missing from the debate. Some, however, just take every opportunity to spew hate and anger at anyone who is different than they are.

Considering Obama got 4 million fewer votes then he did in 2008 and more the 5 million R's stayed home - it is clear both candidates did not excite the voters. Obama did win simply because all he did was promise free stuff to people while setting out policies that punished achievement

Obama has gone from hope and change to class warfare since he has f'ed up everything he could not talk about hsi record

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

02-09-2013, 06:42 PM

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/SalsJewel/MakingIllegalIllegal.jpg

That cuts to the chase.. would be even funnier were not the consequences of the dumbass liberals often so tragic for the American victims..-Tyr

fj1200

02-09-2013, 09:46 PM

I believe at least 2/3 if not more of Romney's "47%" are Republicans. I think it's an unfair stereotype to assume only liberals live off of the public teat. The same ones who say this also say we're "over-educated". Isn't that a hoot? How can we be "dumb asses" and over-educated and broke all at the same time?

I believe some posters are honestly concerned about what harm "amnesty" could cause to our economy. That's why I continue to point out the aspects that are missing from the debate. Some, however, just take every opportunity to spew hate and anger at anyone who is different than they are.

You're still not answering the question. If you don't know why you can't make extensions based on it.

red states rule

02-10-2013, 07:38 AM

Undocumented Dems on the warpath

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3zoJG3DrlPo/SwmT3ML0w7I/AAAAAAAABKg/wEqQLxXy5Pc/s400/reall-illegals-0938.jpg

bingster

02-10-2013, 02:47 PM

Considering Obama got 4 million fewer votes then he did in 2008 and more the 5 million R's stayed home - it is clear both candidates did not excite the voters. Obama did win simply because all he did was promise free stuff to people while setting out policies that punished achievement

Obama has gone from hope and change to class warfare since he has f'ed up everything he could not talk about hsi record

Many of those Democrats who "stayed home" went home when they saw the 7 hour long lines caused by your Republican friends who wanted to steal the election. None of that crap happened 4 years ago. Your guys stayed home because you didn't have a candidate.

bingster

02-10-2013, 02:48 PM

Undocumented Dems on the warpath

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3zoJG3DrlPo/SwmT3ML0w7I/AAAAAAAABKg/wEqQLxXy5Pc/s400/reall-illegals-0938.jpg

Wow, they sure know how to keep a grudge. Hey, we robbed you of that land fair and square!!!

bingster

02-10-2013, 02:50 PM

You're still not answering the question. If you don't know why you can't make extensions based on it.

I do know why. Trailer trash is just a populous as illegals. Hate to be blunt, but you forced my hand.

fj1200

02-10-2013, 05:04 PM

I do know why. Trailer trash is just a populous as illegals. Hate to be blunt, but you forced my hand.

With all due respect, no you don't. There are ignorant red voters and there are ignorant blue voters. It has nothing to do with illegals.

red states rule

02-11-2013, 03:04 AM

I do know why. Trailer trash is just a populous as illegals. Hate to be blunt, but you forced my hand.

Is your name by any chance Virgil?

Once again you show your true feelings toward those your elected leaders claim to care so much about. Of course if they do not blindly support them as you do - they are not worthy of your time or respect