General Wants Gay Ban Lifted

[actsnoblemartin]

no, apparently you dont actually read the thread where i said 35% of gays in america, are not wearing protection.


Is this a personal observation?

[OCA]

Not to mention, a substantial amount dont wear protection.



Wow, must not be able to see the 35 in this quote.

I assume you know the 35 then from personal experience.

[LiberalNation]

35% of gays in america, are not wearing protection.
and don't forget the even higher precent of straights who don't.

[5stringJeff]

and don't forget the even higher precent of straights who don't.

Engaging in gay/anal sex is much more likely to get one infected with HIV than vaginal sex.

[LiberalNation]

and I never said it wasn't.........

[actsnoblemartin]

you basing that on facts or your imagination?

look at one of my old threads, and go on the cdc webpage, gay men account for 53% percent of all new hiv cases


and don't forget the even higher precent of straights who don't.

[Pale Rider]

and i made mistakes .
i certainly rebelled unfortunately i had to do it in the real world, so i paid real world prices for my rebellion.
theres a lot she says and does i certainly dont agree with , but then again going back years i did the same on the c.b winding folk up localy and internationaly , i put her antics down as that ,winding folk up. she lays the bait ......................

I don't. This girl is "REALLY" that messed up. And if she thinks she can song and dance her way through ROTC and double that pay back active duty time without anybody figuring out she's a lesbo, she's flat out crazy. I spent eight years in the Air Force. I know how the military works, and they DON'T play games. She does. She's in for a very rude awakening.

[LiberalNation]

And if she thinks she can song and dance her way through ROTC and double that pay back active duty time without anybody figuring out she's a lesbo, she's flat out crazy
Nah I don't think so. It's not anyody that's the problem, just a few homophobes. Rude awakening, maybe, but then getting kicked out earlier prolly will be just fine with me if so. You don't hafta pay back the college anyway.

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree with you 100%

she is living in a fantasy land of elitism.

she better take the train back to reality, before reality knocks her out



I don't. This girl is "REALLY" that messed up. And if she thinks she can song and dance her way through ROTC and double that pay back active duty time without anybody figuring out she's a lesbo, she's flat out crazy. I spent eight years in the Air Force. I know how the military works, and they DON'T play games. She does. She's in for a very rude awakening.

[actsnoblemartin]

Another militant liberal response. is liberalnation gay?

anyone who disagress with a liberal is a racist, uncletom, homophobe, or any other bullshit slur they can come up with.

liberalnation is dishonest as the day is long

Everyone who doesnt agree with homosexuality is a homophoboe

Nah I don't think so. It's not anyody that's the problem, just a few homophobes. Rude awakening, maybe, but then getting kicked out earlier prolly will be just fine with me if so. You don't hafta pay back the college anyway.

[Pale Rider]

Another militant liberal response. is liberalnation gay?

No, LN is not "happy." She is however a flaming lesbo.

[Pale Rider]

Nah I don't think so. It's not anyody that's the problem, just a few homophobes. Rude awakening, maybe, but then getting kicked out earlier prolly will be just fine with me if so. You don't hafta pay back the college anyway.

Your happy go lucky, cavalier attitude is going to grind to a screaching halt. I just wish I could be there to witness it. I hear laughing is real good for a person.

[LiberalNation]

LN is very happy, and not flaming anything.

[actsnoblemartin]

you mean she is a carpet muncher? :laugh2:

oh no, im gonna be charged with a hate crime

:lol:

no jokes allowed, according to liberalism

I think lesbians, a high percentage of them excuse me, are just man hating elitist piggies.


No, LN is not "happy." She is however a flaming lesbo.

[LiberalNation]

As opposed to the woman hatin idjit. LOL

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont hate women, I just disagree with certain things that some of them do, same for men.

But nice try militant liberal.

you cant actually debate anything, so youre only tactic is cheap shots


As opposed to the woman hatin idjit. LOL

[LiberalNation]

You, actually have a debate, LMFAO.

[Pale Rider]

you mean she is a carpet muncher? :laugh2:

Thaaaaat's right... another one in need of mental help.

[Pale Rider]

LN is very happy, and not flaming anything.

So you're a happy, flaming, lesbo.

[actsnoblemartin]

exactly, i wouldnt be surprised if being gay was a mental illness.


Thaaaaat's right... another one in need of mental help.

[Pale Rider]

exactly, i wouldnt be surprised if being gay was a mental illness.

You don't call men wanting to have sex with men, and women wanting to have sex with women, SICK IN THE HEAD?!

If that isn't... I don't know what is.

[actsnoblemartin]

it should be.


You don't call men wanting to have sex with men, and women wanting to have sex with women, SICK IN THE HEAD?!

If that isn't... I don't know what is.

[Pale Rider]

it should be.

It is... Homosexuality Is A Mental Illness. (http://members.tripod.com/british-nation/illness.htm)

[actsnoblemartin]

thanks for the url, its an excellent resource.. and its true


It is... Homosexuality Is A Mental Illness. (http://members.tripod.com/british-nation/illness.htm)

[Pale Rider]

thanks for the url, its an excellent resource.. and its true

Every bit of it's factual, and the homo apologists and enablers hate it. They'll deny the source is credible every time, just like clock work.

Everybody knows what's on that page is true though. You can deny it all day long... but it just makes you look stupid.

[actsnoblemartin]

that is a liberal tactic, attack the source, smear smear smear


Every bit of it's factual, and the homo apologists and enablers hate it. They'll deny the source is credible every time, just like clock work.

Everybody knows what's on that page is true though. You can deny it all day long... but it just makes you look stupid.

[LiberalNation]

Blah blah blah, liberals, blah blah blah. You all sure love talkin to yourselfs. Hey Pale try debating on a board where everyone doesn't think just a like. P&CA is pretty good.

[actsnoblemartin]

why dont you debate him instead of cheap shot and personal attack.

what the matter cant fight your own battles.

buck buck, chicken


Blah blah blah, liberals, blah blah blah. You all sure love talkin to yourselfs. Hey Pale try debating on a board where everyone doesn't think just a like. P&CA is pretty good.

[LiberalNation]

All of Pales perticipation in this thread has been a personal attack. Debate is immposible, tho I hafta hand it to him. He's smarter than you even considering all wrong opinions.

[actsnoblemartin]

you consider anything that doesnt agree with you a personal attack


All of Pales perticipation in this thread has been a personal attack. Debate is immposible, tho I hafta hand it to him. He's smarter than you even considering all wrong opinions.

[Pale Rider]

Blah blah blah, liberals, blah blah blah. You all sure love talkin to yourselfs. Hey Pale try debating on a board where everyone doesn't think just a like. P&CA is pretty good.

Are you kidding? You don't think there's enough people here that disagree with me already? Take this thread as an example. The longest thread on the board. You think it full of people AGREEING with each other? Ummm... NO!

And what's wrong with you? Cat got your tongue, or should I say... "pussy?" :lmao:

[Pale Rider]

All of Pales perticipation in this thread has been a personal attack.

That's a outright lie LN.

[LiberalNation]

You already know my views, anything more is a waste of time. You can't reason with people like your dear self.

[actsnoblemartin]

hahahaha


Are you kidding? You don't think there's enough people here that disagree with me already? Take this thread as an example. The longest thread on the board. You think it full of people AGREEING with each other? Ummm... NO!

And what's wrong with you? Cat got your tongue, or should I say... "pussy?" :lmao:

[Pale Rider]

You already know my views, anything more is a waste of time. You can't reason with people like your dear self.

Yeah well, I'm not the one bucking nature and morality... you are.

[actsnoblemartin]

well, you haven tried to convince me of anything, and pale convinced me he was right

I think your just intolerant of people who disagree with you

a.k.a. an elitist liberal


You already know my views, anything more is a waste of time. You can't reason with people like your dear self.

[LiberalNation]

That's a outright lie LN.
Let me repharse all pales perticipiation in this thread since I've been on it has been nothing but personal attacks and stupid catch phrases with no basis in reality.

[actsnoblemartin]

I want examples and explain to me why you think you cant debate him.

I have nothing against you personally, although you may not believe that.. I cant help your perceptions...


Let me repharse all pales perticipiation in this thread since I've been on it has been nothing but personal attacks and stupid catch phrases with no basis in reality.

[LiberalNation]

Yeah well, I'm not the one bucking nature and morality... you are.
Nature, a lot of stuff happens in nature. Even homosexuality is a product of nature. As for morality, worthless social constructs that differ through out time and place. Your views will soon be the one in the minority.

[actsnoblemartin]

I admit there is debate whether homosexuality is nature or nuture.

But who cares, whether an opinion is minority or majority, right or wrong isnt determine by how many people believe it

althought right and wrong is very subjective i admit


Nature, a lot of stuff happens in nature. Even homosexuality is a product of nature. As for morality, worthless social constructs that differ through out time and place. Your views will soon be the one in the minority.

[LiberalNation]

Yes it is, right and wrong is nothing more than what the majority believes is right or wrong.

[actsnoblemartin]

if a minority does the right thing, does that mean they are wrong because the majority does the wrong thing?


Yes it is, right and wrong is nothing more than what the majority believes is right or wrong.

[Pale Rider]

Let me repharse all pales perticipiation in this thread since I've been on it has been nothing but personal attacks and stupid catch phrases with no basis in reality.

Well, let's go over it... pertaining to you, all I said was you were in for a big surprize when and if you do anything with the military... "truth." I said you were a lesbian, and in need of mental help... "truth." What part of that was a personal attack?

[Pale Rider]

Nature, a lot of stuff happens in nature. Even homosexuality is a product of nature.
Homosexuality is a mistake of nature, just like someone with six fingers. It isn't right, and should be fixed.


As for morality, worthless social constructs that differ through out time and place. Your views will soon be the one in the minority.
I have confidence it won't be. It's been five thousand years already, and it's still not accepted. Normal people, which are the vast majority by immense numbers, are disgusted and repulsed by it, and always will be. What surprises me is how easily you can lie to yourself, and believe it. Your mind truly is twisted.

[actsnoblemartin]

It is against nature.

you cant procreate with two homosexuals and without procreation, there are no homosexuals, let alone straights

so suck on that lesbian (joke)

:lol:

Homosexuality is a mistake of nature, just like someone with six fingers. It isn't right, and should be fixed.


I have confidence it won't be. It's been five thousand years already, and it's still not accepted. Normal people, which are the vast majority by immense numbers, are disgusted and repulsed by it, and always will be. What surprises me is how easily you can lie to yourself, and believe it. Your mind truly is twisted.

[LiberalNation]

I have confidence it won't be. It's been five thousand years already, and it's still not accepted. Normal people, which are the vast majority by immense numbers, are disgusted and repulsed by it, and always will be. What surprises me is how easily you can lie to yourself, and believe it. Your mind truly is twisted.

You forget rome, greece, India, it is only since the rise of christianity and Islam it's become a big deal I'm thinking.

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree homosexuality has existed, but that does not mean it has been widely accepted.

existing and acceptance are two different things


You forget rome, greece, India, it is only since the rise of christianity and Islam it's become a big deal I'm thinking.

[LiberalNation]

Well, let's go over it... pertaining to you, all I said was you were in for a big surprize when and if you do anything with the military... "truth." I said you were a lesbian, and in need of mental help... "truth." What part of that was a personal attack?
Truth, lol, you don't even know me let alone the truth about me.

[actsnoblemartin]

how can we, if you dont tell us about yourself, and what made you gay, in your opinion


Truth, lol, you don't even know me let alone the truth about me.

[Missileman]

Yeah well, I'm not the one bucking nature and morality... you are.

Seriously...you really need to just shut the fuck up about morality, in particular sexual morality. You have NONE, so dogging others about your percieved lack of it on their part is just about the most ridiculous thing going.

[actsnoblemartin]

what does his personal morality have to do with anything let alone this thread?

this about homosexuality and whether it is moral or not




Seriously...you really need to just shut the fuck up about morality, in particular sexual morality. You have NONE, so dogging others about your percieved lack of it on their part is just about the most ridiculous thing going.

[Missileman]

what does his personal morality have to do with anything let alone this thread?

this about homosexuality and whether it is moral or not

Is one type of sexual immorality worse than another?

[actsnoblemartin]

I would be very arrogant if i said that wasnt extremely debateable however...

I do not believe that the one type of sexual immorality is worse then another because fornication is a sin, so therefore fornication is just as big a sin as homosexuality according to god.


Is one type of sexual immorality worse than another?

[Pale Rider]

Truth, lol, you don't even know me let alone the truth about me.

I know of you what you've said here, and that's quite enough to tell you don't know right from wrong.

[Pale Rider]

Seriously...you really need to just shut the fuck up about morality, in particular sexual morality. You have NONE, so dogging others about your percieved lack of it on their part is just about the most ridiculous thing going.

Yeah I know johnnymisslehead... the truth upsets you as much as it does the homos. All I can think is you either are one or want to be one. Either way, you have to live with the truth that you're as sick as they are. Not my problem you lie to yourself as well. It's your's. Deal with it or shut the fuck up sicko.

[Missileman]

Yeah I know johnnymisslehead... the truth upsets you as much as it does the homos. All I can think is you are either are one or want to be one. Either way, you have to live with the truth that you're as sick as they are. Not my problem you lie to yourself as well. It's your's. Deal with it or shut the fuck up sicko.

The truth that you IMAGINE I'm upset about is you're a hypocrite who holds one standard for himself and a totally different standard for everyone else.

[actsnoblemartin]

#1 what you just said is a personal attack. Because... we are discussing based on the topic whether gays should be allowed to sir openly, or at all, and to some extent is being gay ok?

#2 even if he was a horrible person, that does not make what he says or believes any less valid because... a smoker can tell you dont smoke its bad, he would be telling the truth... also, we are all sinners, so no one should talk because we are not perfect?




The truth that you IMAGINE I'm upset about is you're a hypocrite who holds one standard for himself and a totally different standard for everyone else.

[Pale Rider]

The truth that you IMAGINE I'm upset about is you're a hypocrite who holds one standard for himself and a totally different standard for everyone else.

There are no "standards" here. Just right from wrong, natural and unnatural, moral and immoral, of which you have no more clue than the homos do. You need to be told, and then you still live in denial that homosexuality is a perverted, vile, disgusting mental illness.

Nothing hypocritical about that on my part. Hammer that all you want. It's a hollow line of crap.

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree with you 100%, they cant argue why homosexuality is right, so they personally attack you


There are no "standards" here. Just right from wrong, natural and unnatural, moral and immoral, of which you have no more clue than the homos do. You need to be told, and then you still live in denial that homosexuality is a perverted, vile, disgusting mental illness. Nothing hypocritical about that on my part. Hammer that all you want. It's a hollow line of crap.

[Pale Rider]

I agree with you 100%, they cant argue why homosexuality is right, so they personally attack you

Every time...

[actsnoblemartin]

you are one of the very best posters here.

:clap:


Every time...

[Missileman]

#1 what you just said is a personal attack. Because... we are discussing based on the topic whether gays should be allowed to sir openly, or at all, and to some extent is being gay ok?

#2 even if he was a horrible person, that does not make what he says or believes any less valid because... a smoker can tell you dont smoke its bad, he would be telling the truth... also, we are all sinners, so no one should talk because we are not perfect?

So my pointing out that PR is sexually immoral is a personal attack, yet his pointing out LNs sexual immorality isn't? Interesting. I guess we can consider you another member of the double standard club.

[Missileman]

There are no "standards" here. Just right from wrong, natural and unnatural, moral and immoral, of which you have no more clue than the homos do. You need to be told, and then you still live in denial that homosexuality is a perverted, vile, disgusting mental illness.

Nothing hypocritical about that on my part. Hammer that all you want. It's a hollow line of crap.

What's hollow is the sound of the morality drum you keep beating. It's okay for you to be sexually immoral, but not okay for others. You need to acquaint yourself with a dictionary and the definition of the word hypocrite. While you're at it, look up standard.

[actsnoblemartin]

what evidence do you have that pr is sexually immoral?, and i resent your double standard comment, i am listening to you and discussing this with you.

I think its unfair to single out someone's sexuality on the board, whether its gay or heterosexual and i dont like liberalnation for her ideas. I disagree with her being gay, but i dont think it should be used as a weapon, its a fine line.


So my pointing out that PR is sexually immoral is a personal attack, yet his pointing out LNs sexual immorality isn't? Interesting. I guess we can consider you another member of the double standard club.

[actsnoblemartin]

im still waiting for my answer

[Missileman]

what evidence do you have that pr is sexually immoral?, and i resent your double standard comment, i am listening to you and discussing this with you.

I think its unfair to single out someone's sexuality on the board, whether its gay or heterosexual and i dont like liberalnation for her ideas. I disagree with her being gay, but i dont think it should be used as a weapon, its a fine line.

PR posted that he took a trip to a brothel where he bought the services of prositutes for himself and his son. Further, he posted he was looking forward to the grand opening of another brothel so he could do it again.

[Pale Rider]

PR posted that he took a trip to a brothel where he bought the services of prositutes for himself and his son. Further, he posted he was looking forward to the grand opening of another brothel so he could do it again.

What's immoral about that? A man having sex with a woman. Please tell me what's immoral about that. It's not only legal, everybody pays one way or the other. So if you're going to try and argue that paying for it is immoral, you're full of shit, and a hypocrite. If you've ever wined and dined a woman, you've paid for it yourself. Just under different circumstances, but the same exact thing.

[LiberalNation]

Sex outside of marriage is immoral according to traditional moral, so is prostitution. In fact i think the moralist through out the ages have hyped on it quite a bit more than homosexuality.

[Pale Rider]

Sex outside of marriage is immoral according to traditional moral, so is prostitution. In fact i think the moralist through out the ages have hyped on it quite a bit more than homosexuality.

No, they haven't. Even the Bible is full of "concubines." But that's not the issue. The issue, before you or missledick derail it, is homosexuality, which is and always will be immoral, in the Bible and by nature.

[LiberalNation]

You think sex outa marraige ain't immoral by the bible. LMFAO

and he thinks he hold the keys to heaven. :laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

sex before marriage is called fornication and is a sin.

Going to a brothel is going to a house of ill repute, it is legalized prostitution which is worse then paying for dinner with a woman and then having sex with her.

According to god sin is sin...


Fornicating = homosexuality


PR posted that he took a trip to a brothel where he bought the services of prositutes for himself and his son. Further, he posted he was looking forward to the grand opening of another brothel so he could do it again.

[Pale Rider]

You think sex outa marraige ain't immoral by the bible. LMFAO

and he thinks he hold the keys to heaven. :laugh2:

Sex outside of marriage is sex outside of marriage. If it's between a man and a woman, it's not even a fraction as bad as being a homo. God calls homosexuality an abomination, and says that those who practice it will pay for it with their BLOOD. YOU, as a lesbian, are sure to burn in hell for eternity.

Laugh about that fag girl.

[LiberalNation]

God calls homosexuality an abomination, and says that those who practice it will pay for it with their BLOOD. YOU, as a lesbian, are sure to burn in hell for eternity.
You wouldn't know god if he appeared before you. Think I'll take my chances with the rest of humanity. We are all sinners.

[Missileman]

You Christians need to get the word out that doin hookers is okey-dokey. It would bring conversion to Islam to a screaming halt...probably even sway a few atheists.

[Pale Rider]

You wouldn't know god if he appeared before you. Think I'll take my chances with the rest of humanity. We are all sinners.

I not only know God, but I also have a gaurdian angel that watches over me. I have been reborn in the name of Jesus Christ, and my way into heaven is assured.

You should just stop lying to yourself. That would be a big step for you.

[Pale Rider]

You Christians need to get the word out that doin hookers is okey-dokey. It would bring conversion to Islam to a screaming halt...probably even sway a few atheists.

See the difference between you and I Mm, is I don't lie. I'll admit my sins. That's why I am in God's favor. He knows I'm truthful, and I repent my sins. You, are a totally different case. You will lie and have us believe that somehow you are perfect, and that butt pokin' homos are... how do you put it... "okey dokey." So you're not only a liar, but your vain as well. God will not let you in heaven. God hates liars, and that seems to be all you can do.

[Missileman]

See the difference between you and I Mm, is I don't lie. I'll admit my sins. That's why I am in God's favor. He knows I'm truthful, and I repent my sins. You, are a totally different case. You will lie and have us believe that somehow you are perfect, and that butt pokin' homos are... how do you put it... "okey dokey." So you're not only a liar, but your vain as well. God will not let you in heaven. God hates liars, and that seems to be all you can do.

I'm disappointed in the rest of the so-called Christians on the board letting you spew this shit unchallenged. Who knows, maybe they agree with you. Darin...Jeff...-Cp....Avatar...you guys all think doin hookers is moral?

[5stringJeff]

I'm disappointed in the rest of the so-called Christians on the board letting you spew this shit unchallenged. Who knows, maybe they agree with you. Darin...Jeff...-Cp....Avatar...you guys all think doin hookers is moral?

I haven't read every post in this thread because it's SO long, so I might have missed something. Did someone claim that hiring a prostitute is moral?

[Pale Rider]

I haven't read every post in this thread because it's SO long, so I might have missed something. Did someone claim that hiring a prostitute is moral?

Missleman says paying for sex is immoral. I claim we all pay for it one way or the other. Either long term through diners, dates, favors and gifts, or all at once up front. What's the difference? You're paying just the same. And here in Nevada the all at once method is legal, so you're not even breaking any laws. I also pointed out that the Bible makes mention of concubines, so what's the point? Is it immoral? Make your own judgement. All I pointed out to Mm was that I don't lie to him, myself, or anybody else. I repent my sins to the Lord, and he forgives me. But Mm will turn around right back around and tell you that two men butt fucking each other is OK, and that one does not need to repent of that sin or ask the Lord's forgiveness. He's a hypocrite and a liar, and therein lies the difference between him and I.

[LiberalNation]

I haven't read every post in this thread because it's SO long, so I might have missed something. Did someone claim that hiring a prostitute is moral?

.......


What's immoral about that? A man having sex with a woman. Please tell me what's immoral about that. It's not only legal, everybody pays one way or the other. So if you're going to try and argue that paying for it is immoral, you're full of shit, and a hypocrite. If you've ever wined and dined a woman, you've paid for it yourself. Just under different circumstances, but the same exact thing.


No, they haven't. Even the Bible is full of "concubines." But that's not the issue. The issue, before you or missledick derail it, is homosexuality, which is and always will be immoral, in the Bible and by nature.

[actsnoblemartin]

i dont think men should pay for dates, women can work, they should pay their fair share, if men werent pressered into paying for everything, dating would be equal, and wouldnt be allowd to use men for free dinners or gifts.

as far as my understanding goes, god doesnt care if you pay upfront or over time, he doesnt like fornicating, but i could be wrong

but does god does say homosexuality is an abomination.

For anyone to say pale cant speaks his views on sexulity because you dont like him, or his views on other moral issues is ridiculous.

this is a debate board, more views are better then less




Missleman says paying for sex is immoral. I claim we all pay for it one way or the other. Either long term through diners, dates, favors and gifts, or all at once up front. What's the difference? You're paying just the same. And here in Nevada the all at once method is legal, so you're not even breaking any laws. I also pointed out that the Bible makes mention of concubines, so what's the point? Is it immoral? Make your own judgement. All I pointed out to Mm was that I don't lie to him, myself, or anybody else. I repent my sins to the Lord, and he forgives me. But Mm will turn around right back around and tell you that two men butt fucking each other is OK, and that one does not need to repent of that sin or ask the Lord's forgiveness. He's a hypocrite and a liar, and therein lies the difference between him and I.

[Missileman]

For anyone to say pale cant speaks his views on sexulity because you dont like him, or his views on other moral issues is ridiculous.


PR's proven lack of understanding of sexual morality should render any opinion he might have on the matter questionable at best. I personally find his blatant hypocrisy on the subject grounds to summarily dismiss anything he says about it.

[Pale Rider]

PR's proven lack of understanding of sexual morality should render any opinion he might have on the matter questionable at best. I personally find his blatant hypocrisy on the subject grounds to summarily dismiss anything he says about it.

I've addressed your ever present line of character assassination and lies. It's put you in your place firmly enough that you can't respond with anything but more crap. If anyone has lost credit here, it's you. The disseminator of defamation and dishonesty.

Get a clue Mm. You've been beat up and sent home in this thread from start to finish, and it continues. You have no argument. You have no game. You have nothing but lies, false accusations and personal insults. You're done bone head. Your last attempt at derailment just washed you up.

[actsnoblemartin]

as ive said, were all hypocrites... otherwise we would be hypocrites.

I believe fornication is fornication is fornication.

sexual morality is a dicey propasition, because your not going to get a conses on what is right and wrong.. especially with humans.

[Missileman]

I've addressed your ever present line of character assassination and lies. It's put you in your place firmly enough that you can't respond with anything but more crap. If anyone has lost credit here, it's you. The disseminator of defamation and dishonesty.

Get a clue Mm. You've been beat up and sent home in this thread from start to finish, and it continues. You have no argument. You have no game. You have nothing but lies, false accusations and personal insults. You're done bone head. Your last attempt at derailment just washed you up.

:lmao:

You are one highly delusional hypocrite. It's always the same story with you. It's not your fault you're immoral, it's the fault of the person who points it out.

Before you can claim defamation and dishonesty and insult, you damned well better be able to prove that anything I've said in here is a lie. Unfortunately for you, the only thing I've done is repeat your own words.

I'd say that is sufficient reason to call YOU a LIAR. Lying is apparently another activity your warped morality tells you is okay.

[Pale Rider]

:lmao:

You are one highly delusional hypocrite. It's always the same story with you. It's not your fault you're immoral, it's the fault of the person who points it out.

Before you can claim defamation and dishonesty and insult, you damned well better be able to prove that anything I've said in here is a lie. Unfortunately for you, the only thing I've done is repeat your own words.

I'd say that is sufficient reason to call YOU a LIAR. Lying is apparently another activity your warped morality tells you is okay.

Well... "like I said," I've already addressed your attempts at character assassination, and I've put to rest your lies. Now it's evident you have nothing left to say about the topic of the thread OR me that's worth spit. Oh believe me Mm, I do realise getting back on topic is NOT what you want to do, because your lame, old arguments don't hold water. Never did, never will. I'm sure you don't want to be embarrassed all over again.

So until you can freshen up your diatribe with something new... something worth reading... I'm done with you. My time is better spent sitting on the toilet than here reading this garbage you call a post.

[Missileman]

Well... "like I said," I've already addressed your attempts at character assassination, and I've put to rest your lies. Now it's evident you have nothing left to say about the topic of the thread OR me that's worth spit. Oh believe me Mm, I do realise getting back on topic is NOT what you want to do, because your lame, old arguments don't hold water. Never did, never will. I'm sure you don't want to be embarrassed all over again.

So until you can freshen up your diatribe with something new... something worth reading... I'm done with you. My time is better spent sitting on the toilet than here reading this garbage you call a post.

I have no doubt you wish you'd never said anything about your trip to the ranch, but the cat's out of the bag. I'm telling YOU that whenever you start in with your holier than thou bullshit, I'm gonna yank that cat's tail. Get used to it.

Trying to put YOUR lies and YOUR embarassment on me isn't fooling anyone. It's so patently obvious it's pathetic. Frankly, I don't blame you for running away.

[Pale Rider]

I have no doubt you wish you'd never said anything about your trip to the ranch, but the cat's out of the bag. I'm telling YOU that whenever you start in with your holier than thou bullshit, I'm gonna yank that cat's tail. Get used to it.

Trying to put YOUR lies and YOUR embarassment on me isn't fooling anyone. It's so patently obvious it's pathetic. Frankly, I don't blame you for running away.

You're just pathetic Mm. I thought you had more in you than that. Guess you don't. You're just another lame liberal that hates to lose an argument.

Oh... and guess what... I've been to a brothel... anybody care? HA HA HA HA HA.... right... already been hashed over, and you're the only one who thinks it's an item... moron.... :lmao:

[5stringJeff]

Missleman says paying for sex is immoral. I claim we all pay for it one way or the other. Either long term through diners, dates, favors and gifts, or all at once up front. What's the difference? You're paying just the same. And here in Nevada the all at once method is legal, so you're not even breaking any laws. I also pointed out that the Bible makes mention of concubines, so what's the point? Is it immoral? Make your own judgement. All I pointed out to Mm was that I don't lie to him, myself, or anybody else. I repent my sins to the Lord, and he forgives me. But Mm will turn around right back around and tell you that two men butt fucking each other is OK, and that one does not need to repent of that sin or ask the Lord's forgiveness. He's a hypocrite and a liar, and therein lies the difference between him and I.

There's a huge difference between courting a woman and paying a prostitute fo sex. Regardless, the Bible says that sex outside of marriage is sinful, period, whether it's hetero or homo, and regardless of payment, relationship, etc.

[Pale Rider]

There's a huge difference between courting a woman and paying a prostitute fo sex. Regardless, the Bible says that sex outside of marriage is sinful, period, whether it's hetero or homo, and regardless of payment, relationship, etc.

Well, I disagree. I believe you're paying for it whether it's for a few hours, a date, a month long fling or a life time. You're paying for it, and that's exactly what most men have on their mind, is getting into a girls panties, and they also realise that MONEY is the quickest way to do it. One way is honest, the other is deceitful. I don't believe there's a commandment in the Bible that says man should never visit a brothel either. But do go to a Bible search site and search the word "concubine." Looks like there was plenty of them, and they were accepted. Yes there is mention in the Bible that you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, but that puts practically the whole world in sin, because you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't.

So I disagree with your opinion.

[Missileman]

You're just another lame liberal that hates to lose an argument.

You wouldn't know a liberal if it weighed 400 lbs and crawled outta your ass.

[Pale Rider]

You wouldn't know a liberal if it weighed 400 lbs and crawled outta your ass.

So you weight 400 pounds and crawled otta someones ass? That explains a lot.

[Missileman]

So you weight 400 pounds and crawled otta someones ass? That explains a lot.

Couldn't have been me, I don't weigh 400 lbs. It must have been some other 400 lb man in your ass. Did you let him in there voluntarily or did you fight it? This probably explains your hostility towards homosexuals.

[Pale Rider]

Couldn't have been me, I don't weigh 400 lbs. It must have been some other 400 lb man in your ass. Did you let him in there voluntarily or did you fight it? This probably explains your hostility towards homosexuals.

You know what this all about Mm? Well I do. You worked overtime at derailing this thread because you've had your ass handed to you in legitimate debate. You ran out of gas about 20 pages ago, so you've resorted to your little liberal game of shuck and jive garbage posting and general talking trash.

Get back on topic or go into the Steel Cage and call names ya stupid sons a bitch.

[Missileman]

You know what this all about Mm? Well I do. You worked overtime at derailing this thread because you've had your ass handed to you in legitimate debate. You ran out of gas about 20 pages ago, so you've resorted to your little liberal game of shuck and jive garbage posting and general talking trash.

Get back on topic or go into the Steel Cage and call names ya stupid sons a bitch.

You couldn't be more wrong. The topic was about whether gays should serve in the military. You're the one that dragged morality into the argument when YOU are the last fucking person on the planet who should say shit about someone's morality. You don't want to have a real debate about whether a homosexual can serve well and honorably...it's a debate you can't win.

I've accomplished what I wanted here. I've gotten YOU to drag your ignorant hypocrisy out into the light of day for all to see. Make arguments about effects on morale, discipline, etc. but STFU about morality. You have no credibility in that department.

[Pale Rider]

You couldn't be more wrong. The topic was about whether gays should serve in the military. You're the one that dragged morality into the argument when YOU are the last fucking person on the planet who should say shit about someone's morality. You don't want to have a real debate about whether a homosexual can serve well and honorably...it's a debate you can't win.

I've accomplished what I wanted here. I've gotten YOU to drag your ignorant hypocrisy out into the light of day for all to see. Make arguments about effects on morale, discipline, etc. but STFU about morality. You have no credibility in that department.

You are the biggest idiot on the board, and a liberal idiot to boot. I can only imagine the hell you put people around you throughout your day with your lies and hypocrisy. You really pushing the limits here of being a liar. You remind me of the old man that sat around and discussed penis size with a bunch of little boys. You also remind me of ole mattskramer, who thought it was A OK for Papa to fuck little daughter. That's how sick your thought pattern is, and that's how bad you can twist the truth.

No matter how loud you blow your little horn and try and sound legit Mm... I win. I'll always win. I've got more class in my little toe than you'll ever be able to muster in your insignificant life time.

You're just a pathetic little loser with no life, and it's pretty obvious you have very low self esteem. A signature trait of a homo. You may not be one, but you have very feminine characteristics.

Now I'm going to give you the last word, just like the little bitch you are, you need it.

[Missileman]

You are the biggest idiot on the board, and a liberal idiot to boot. I can only imagine the hell you put people around you throughout your day with your lies and hypocrisy. You really pushing the limits here of being a liar. You remind me of the old man that sat around and discussed penis size with a bunch of little boys. You also remind me of ole mattskramer, who thought it was A OK for Papa to fuck little daughter. That's how sick your thought pattern is, and that's how bad you can twist the truth.

No matter how loud you blow your little horn and try and sound legit Mm... I win. I'll always win. I've got more class in my little toe than you'll ever be able to muster in your insignificant life time.

You're just a pathetic little loser with no life, and it's pretty obvious you have very low self esteem. A signature trait of a homo. You may not be one, but you have very feminine characteristics.

Now I'm going to give you the last word, just like the little bitch you are, you need it.

Are you drunk? That's one of the most incoherent, off topic, non-sequitur responses I've ever seen.

If you're not drunk, you're absolutely batshit looney-toons

[LiberalNation]

A loony toon with delusions of grandeur sounds about right to me.

[5stringJeff]

Well, I disagree. I believe you're paying for it whether it's for a few hours, a date, a month long fling or a life time. You're paying for it, and that's exactly what most men have on their mind, is getting into a girls panties, and they also realise that MONEY is the quickest way to do it. One way is honest, the other is deceitful. I don't believe there's a commandment in the Bible that says man should never visit a brothel either. But do go to a Bible search site and search the word "concubine." Looks like there was plenty of them, and they were accepted. Yes there is mention in the Bible that you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, but that puts practically the whole world in sin, because you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't.

So I disagree with your opinion.

Given the topic of the thread, perhaps we could discuss it elsewhere.

[glockmail]

You are the biggest idiot on the board, and a liberal idiot to boot. I can only imagine the hell you put people around you throughout your day with your lies and hypocrisy. You really pushing the limits here of being a liar. You remind me of the old man that sat around and discussed penis size with a bunch of little boys. You also remind me of ole mattskramer, who thought it was A OK for Papa to fuck little daughter. That's how sick your thought pattern is, and that's how bad you can twist the truth.

No matter how loud you blow your little horn and try and sound legit Mm... I win. I'll always win. I've got more class in my little toe than you'll ever be able to muster in your insignificant life time.

You're just a pathetic little loser with no life, and it's pretty obvious you have very low self esteem. A signature trait of a homo. You may not be one, but you have very feminine characteristics.

Now I'm going to give you the last word, just like the little bitch you are, you need it.:laugh2: I've been dealing with this bitch about this subject for two or three years and you summed it up nicely.

[actsnoblemartin]

Correct, except the bible says homosexuality and homosexual sex is an abomination.

Regardless, the Bible says that sex outside of marriage is sinful, period, whether it's hetero or homo, and regardless of payment, relationship, etc.[/QUOTE]

[Pale Rider]

Given the topic of the thread, perhaps we could discuss it elsewhere.

It may make for an interesting debate Jeff. I'd be willing to take it into the one on one section.

[Pale Rider]

:laugh2: I've been dealing with this bitch about this subject for two or three years and you summed it up nicely.

I'll tell ya glock... this Mm... THING... is something to behold. There's not really a person on the board that wants to respond to ANYTHING he says let alone debate him. They all know how fucking big of a GOOF the moron is. I shouldn't either. He just starts with his crap and lies and drags you down to his level. That's the only place he can exist, because he sure the hell can't debate. He's too far out in lala looney liberal land. Prime example, his little lesbo gash licker twin "knows what he's saying." That ought to tell the SANE people of the board something.

Stay away from him. He's a complete idiot.

[Missileman]

I'll tell ya glock... this Mm... THING... is something to behold. There's not really a person on the board that wants to respond to ANYTHING he says let alone debate him. They all know how fucking big of a GOOF the moron is. I shouldn't either. He just starts with his crap and lies and drags you down to his level. That's the only place he can exist, because he sure the hell can't debate. He's too far out in lala looney liberal land. Prime example, his little lesbo gash licker twin "knows what he's saying." That ought to tell the SANE people of the board something.

Stay away from him. He's a complete idiot.

You're the one who's been lying in this thread asshole. You're the one who couldn't come up with a valid reason why a homosexual couldn't serve well and honorably in the military so you started in with the morality bullshit. You're just smarting from having your lack of morality shoved up your ass. I'll wager you're not man enough to back up the claim you just made and point to a lie I've posted in this thread. I'll further wager you'll come up with some bullshit lame excuse when you can't find one.

[glockmail]

I'll tell ya glock... this Mm... THING... is something to behold. There's not really a person on the board that wants to respond to ANYTHING he says let alone debate him. They all know how fucking big of a GOOF the moron is. I shouldn't either. He just starts with his crap and lies and drags you down to his level. That's the only place he can exist, because he sure the hell can't debate. He's too far out in lala looney liberal land. Prime example, his little lesbo gash licker twin "knows what he's saying." That ought to tell the SANE people of the board something.

Stay away from him. He's a complete idiot.
He's had me on ignore ever since I beat him up by tallying his insults.

[Pale Rider]

He's had me on ignore ever since I beat him up by tallying his insults.

Lucky you.

I don't like to use the ignore function myself, but that's what I'm going to do to him. Unless he says something intelligent and on topic, which is like one post in every hundred, I'm not responding to him anymore. He's too far whacked out for me, and a total waste of time and effort. He's a freakin' nut case that lies, calls names, and generally derails threads and engages in character assassinations over legitimate debate.

Be glad he had you ignore glock. I see most other people here ignore him as well. Most know he's just a looney left crack pot.

[Missileman]

Lucky you.

I don't like to use the ignore function myself, but that's what I'm going to do to him. Unless he says something intelligent and on topic, which is like one post in every hundred, I'm not responding to him anymore. He's too far whacked out for me, and a total waste of time and effort. He's a freakin' nut case that lies, calls names, and generally derails threads and engages in character assassinations over legitimate debate.

Be glad he had you ignore glock. I see most other people here ignore him as well. Most know he's just a looney left crack pot.

You mistake the silence of your normal supporters in here as fear of me when in fact it is your own indefensible position that has them quiet. Again, if you have any balls at all, you'll back up your claims that I've lied with something other than your empty accusation.

[glockmail]

Lucky you.

I don't like to use the ignore function myself, but that's what I'm going to do to him. Unless he says something intelligent and on topic, which is like one post in every hundred, I'm not responding to him anymore. He's too far whacked out for me, and a total waste of time and effort. He's a freakin' nut case that lies, calls names, and generally derails threads and engages in character assassinations over legitimate debate.

Be glad he had you ignore glock. I see most other people here ignore him as well. Most know he's just a looney left crack pot.

I don't ignore anyone, except for lib nation after she welched on Jimmy. What a useless POS she is.

I consider MM's ignore of me to be his acknowledgment of being soundly defeated. :lol:

[Pale Rider]

I don't ignore anyone, except for lib nation after she welched on Jimmy. What a useless POS she is.

I consider MM's ignore of me to be his acknowledgment of being soundly defeated. :lol:

Well, he follows me around like a little lost puppy. Probably because I've been stupid enough to respond to his crap. But, that's over. He'll have to take a step up and say something intelligent now before I'll ever give him the time of day again. That is IF he's capable of that, which I highly doubt.

[Missileman]

Well, he follows me around like a little lost puppy. Probably because I've been stupid enough to respond to his crap. But, that's over. He'll have to take a step up and say something intelligent now before I'll ever give him the time of day again. That is IF he's capable of that, which I highly doubt.

I'll drop it as soon as YOU man up and point to the lies I've told in this thread. Otherwise...:poke:

[glockmail]

Well, he follows me around like a little lost puppy. Probably because I've been stupid enough to respond to his crap. But, that's over. He'll have to take a step up and say something intelligent now before I'll ever give him the time of day again. That is IF he's capable of that, which I highly doubt.
Don't hold your breath man. :lol:

[Pale Rider]

Don't hold your breath man. :lol:

See what I mean. What a troll.

[Missileman]

See what I mean. What a troll.

YOU lie and that makes me a troll?

[Pale Rider]

I have a question for the 'homos should be allowed in the military' crowd... "HOW could homosexuals be fully integrated into all male or all female units?"

[LiberalNation]

They are now. You really think their are no active homosexuals in the military.

[AFbombloader]

They are now. You really think their are no active homosexuals in the military.

Take it from one of the only people here that is in the military. If they are "active" and it can be proven, they will be removed. Being homosexual is not a reason to be removed from service, it is the "acts" that go along with it that will lead to a discharge.

Answer the post.

Pale Rider - I have a question for the 'homos should be allowed in the military' crowd... "HOW could homosexuals be fully integrated into all male or all female units?"

I can tell you that unit morale and cohesivness will suffer.

AF:salute:

[Pale Rider]

They are now. You really think their are no active homosexuals in the military.

But, they're all in hiding and lying about being a homo. That isn't exactly integrated. That's more like breaking the law, because they'll get kicked out if they admit it.

So you have no solution?

[Pale Rider]

Take it from one of the only people here that is in the military. If they are "active" and it can be proven, they will be removed. Being homosexual is not a reason to be removed from service, it is the "acts" that go along with it that will lead to a discharge.

Answer the post.

Pale Rider - I have a question for the 'homos should be allowed in the military' crowd... "HOW could homosexuals be fully integrated into all male or all female units?"

I can tell you that unit morale and cohesivness will suffer.

AF:salute:

I spent eight years in the Air Force myself AFb. I know all about it. I also know that there is no way you can put a couple flaming faggots in with all straight men, and then expect them to all get naked and shower together. There would be big trouble with that. It would never work. People would get hurt, namely the homos. And to just expand on that a little, to put a homo in with all naked men, you might as well put me, a straight man, in with all naked women. Same thing.

I don't see any possible way to successfully integrate homos into a military unit. You can't even put them all in together. There'd be a nightly slam butt, suck fest going on there too. Nope. There's no way it can be done.

[Microcosmos]

I'd quote it here, and it'd be just the same. Except replace Negro for Gay in every sentence.

I think it'd be just fine if gays were allowed to identify themselves as gay in the military. *Hello*. I said "identify" themselves as gay, not "be allowed in", because WE'RE ALREADY IN the friggin military, and we're COVERING YOUR CUTE ASSES WITH MACHINE GUN AND SNIPER FIRE! Among many other things. Yes, I did 8 weeks basic with nothing but a bunch of naked guys all around me, and shockingly no suck/fuckfest happened. We were too busy being worn out from PT, and too busy respecting each other as human beings. As an aside, have any of you been to Woodstock or any of its sequels? The segregated male/female bathrooms become pointless when there are that many people, and *gasp* men and women who didn't know each other very well SHOWERED TOGETHER without incident! Orgies don't just spontaneously happen, if that's what we're all afraid of. Will gay male soldiers have sex with other gay male soldiers? YES. But not on the battlefield, any more than straight male and female soldiers get it on when they're being shot at.

I can't wait for the lift on the gay ban. I'm definitely going to vote for a Commander in Chief who recognizes the value of letting our soldiers be who they are.

[Lee~*]

well...with an enlightened attitude like that, I have no doubt you would feel that way. I think that you would find that military commanders, by and large, care a lot more about how well a person does his job when he's on duty than who he sleeps with off duty.

Since when does who you sleep with have anything to do with how you do your job? When is the last time you filled out a job app that asked you who you sleep with?? Personally, as long as you do your job, whatever that job may be, I couldn't care less what or who you do when you aren't working. I always thought that that was part of the rights and freedoms of being an American. I admit to being totally baffled by this trend towards people minding other peoples business for them, and I'm appalled at the government getting involved in minding my business too! To each their own!!! Lee~*

[glockmail]

Since when does who you sleep with have anything to do with how you do your job? When is the last time you filled out a job app that asked you who you sleep with?? Personally, as long as you do your job, whatever that job may be, I couldn't care less what or who you do when you aren't working. I always thought that that was part of the rights and freedoms of being an American. I admit to being totally baffled by this trend towards people minding other peoples business for them, and I'm appalled at the government getting involved in minding my business too! To each their own!!! Lee~*
The homosexual lifestyle is not consistent with the military one.

[AFbombloader]

Microcosmos, if you went through 8 weeks of BMT then you are not in the AF, it is 6 1/2, of the USMC because it is 13?? Were you Navy? I thought theirs was 9, but I could be wrong. I agree with the last post, it just does not fit the lifestyle. And just because you were able to keep it in your pants for that time doesn't mean everybody will. And if you don't think "straight" people are doing it in a deployed location, you are totally wrong. i know of a few people who were sent home from a deployment early for "family" reasons. Just a nice way of putting that the girl was pregnant. and I also know a few guys who got into a lot of trouble for the act. It does happen. Hell, we even had a tent full of girls get busted for running a prostitution racket in Saudi Arabia back in 2003. They busted the whole tent!

AF:salute:

[Mr. P]

Microcosmos, if you went through 8 weeks of BMT then you are not in the AF, it is 6 1/2, of the USMC because it is 13?? Were you Navy? I thought theirs was 9, but I could be wrong. I agree with the last post, it just does not fit the lifestyle. And just because you were able to keep it in your pants for that time doesn't mean everybody will. And if you don't think "straight" people are doing it in a deployed location, you are totally wrong. i know of a few people who were sent home from a deployment early for "family" reasons. Just a nice way of putting that the girl was pregnant. and I also know a few guys who got into a lot of trouble for the act. It does happen. Hell, we even had a tent full of girls get busted for running a prostitution racket in Saudi Arabia back in 2003. They busted the whole tent!

AF:salute:

Now that is just stupid! The AF aren't very bright folks are they? :poke:

I mean these women were double serving, what more could you ask? Geeezzzzzz

[Microcosmos]

:salute: Army, Reserve. Honorably discharged after 4 years because I chose not to continue. I was 88L, Watercraft Engineer. My recruiter said "Oh you'll love it! The army really needs that MOS right about now!" It was soooo boring. And our unit (of tugboats--yes, the army has tugboats) had only one mission in those 4 years: to tow a crane from Louisiana to Maryland. :rolleyes: If I had still been in the unit back when 9/11 happened then I may have seen some action, but 4 years of showing up one weekend a month to do NADA (I mean we could have done PT, or combat training, but c'mon an engine can only be scrubbed clean so many times) with 2 weeks a year of trips to Fells Point to hang out in bars--not my idea of the military lifestyle. I regret not sticking it out for 3 reasons. 1, my unit accepted my gayness, it was never a problem. Did I wear it on my sleeve? No. Did ladi-dadi everybody know? I dunno, probably not. But some folks definitely knew, & they weren't about to kick me out for it. 2, retirement. A paycheck for the rest of your life? Who can argue with that. And 3, like I said before, if I was still in the unit after 9/11 I would have been involved in transporting troops (the extent of our involvement in anything, according to our CO. Yes, I asked her specifically about this before deciding to leave.). Not thrilling, but at least it would have been some involvement in world events. As to your and glockmail's comments about the "homosexual" vs. "military" lifestyles, a soldier is a soldier. And whether you like it or not, WE ARE ALREADY IN THE MILITARY. All that policy does is ruin people's careers and deny them the same benefits that everybody else feels entitled to, as far as housing etc. As you mentioned, straight soldiers let their pants drop occasionally. So do the gay ones. I mentioned that same thing. If they are caught fraternizing, they get in trouble. Most soldiers, gay and straight, have no problems keeping their pants on when they are on duty, however.

Cheers,

Sean

P.S. AF you are "deployed". Not "delpoyed". & though I debate you, I admire your service & appreciate it.

[AFbombloader]

Now that is just stupid! The AF aren't very bright folks are they? :poke:

I mean these women were double serving, what more could you ask? Geeezzzzzz

For what it is worth, they were AF Reserve troops, not active troops. And they did have quite the racket, until they started taking checks and trying to cash them! You can't take second party checks to the finance officer and try to cash them.

AF:salute:

[AFbombloader]

:salute: Army, Reserve. Honorably discharged after 4 years because I chose not to continue. I was 88L, Watercraft Engineer. My recruiter said "Oh you'll love it! The army really needs that MOS right about now!" It was soooo boring. And our unit (of tugboats--yes, the army has tugboats) had only one mission in those 4 years: to tow a crane from Louisiana to Maryland. :rolleyes: If I had still been in the unit back when 9/11 happened then I may have seen some action, but 4 years of showing up one weekend a month to do NADA (I mean we could have done PT, or combat training, but c'mon an engine can only be scrubbed clean so many times) with 2 weeks a year of trips to Fells Point to hang out in bars--not my idea of the military lifestyle. I regret not sticking it out for 3 reasons. 1, my unit accepted my gayness, it was never a problem. Did I wear it on my sleeve? No. Did ladi-dadi everybody know? I dunno, probably not. But some folks definitely knew, & they weren't about to kick me out for it. 2, retirement. A paycheck for the rest of your life? Who can argue with that. And 3, like I said before, if I was still in the unit after 9/11 I would have been involved in transporting troops (the extent of our involvement in anything, according to our CO. Yes, I asked her specifically about this before deciding to leave.). Not thrilling, but at least it would have been some involvement in world events. As to your and glockmail's comments about the "homosexual" vs. "military" lifestyles, a soldier is a soldier. And whether you like it or not, WE ARE ALREADY IN THE MILITARY. All that policy does is ruin people's careers and deny them the same benefits that everybody else feels entitled to, as far as housing etc. As you mentioned, straight soldiers let their pants drop occasionally. So do the gay ones. I mentioned that same thing. If they are caught fraternizing, they get in trouble. Most soldiers, gay and straight, have no problems keeping their pants on when they are on duty, however.

Cheers,

Sean

P.S. AF you are "deployed". Not "delpoyed". & though I debate you, I admire your service & appreciate it.

You and I agree on a lot of things in regards to this subject. I do know they are in the service. The point is that "open" activity will cause issues in the units. Be honest, you know it would. Maybe not everybody, but a lot would have a big problem rooming with, showering with, sleeping in a tent with an openly gay man. It is just the sad truth. Is that wrong? To many, no it isn't. But to many it is. I don't know. I have served with people who I was sure were gay, both men and women. And they were great workers. Bt they did not do anything outward to show it if they were.
Where were you stationed? I coached soccer in Virginia and one of the boy's father was on an army Tug Boat also. That was the first I had heard of it. Thank you for your service too. There are a lot of us here and we are a pretty close knit group from across the service spectrum.

AF:salute:

[Microcosmos]

I was with the 949th transportation unit at Curtis Creek, near Baltimore. And yes, I acknowledge that there will be tension for a lot of folks. But like I said before, there was a lot of resistance to allowing anyone who wasn't lily-colored a place of equal position in the military, but things have changed for the better. Sure there are still racists, but their views are now officially not supported by the military, & anyone who today says people with different skin tones & backgrounds can't serve together is looked at sideways.

[red states rule]

I was with the 949th transportation unit at Curtis Creek, near Baltimore. And yes, I acknowledge that there will be tension for a lot of folks. But like I said before, there was a lot of resistance to allowing anyone who wasn't lily-colored a place of equal position in the military, but things have changed for the better. Sure there are still racists, but their views are now officially not supported by the military, & anyone who today says people with different skin tones & backgrounds can't serve together is looked at sideways.

Thank you for your service

The military has its rules, and you know them going in. The US military is not the place for libs to set up a lab for social experimenting

[5stringJeff]

This thread is gay.

[LiberalNation]

You're gay.

[actsnoblemartin]

This thread is gay.


You're gay.

we're all gay, :laugh2:

lets get some ice cream

[actsnoblemartin]

Seriously, I have no problem with our gay members on the board, but let me ask you something, if gays can serve openly, shouldnt we just let men and women shower and live in the same units wouldnt it be the same thing? :laugh2:

Im not trying to be mean, or critical, im just asking a question.

[Microcosmos]

Maybe that's next. I don't see a problem with it. Like I said before, been there, done that. Not a big deal. As for the military being a place for social "experimentation", maybe not. But it is a segment of society, and all able and willing members of society should have the right to serve without having to go incognito.

[DragonStryk72]

I honestly don't have a problem with gays serving in the military but this doesn't make sense...a policy is still a policy. How can someone in the navy be openly gay? :dunno:

(I know the majority of sailors are gay but didn't know they could do it openly. :2up:)

lol, alright, as a straight ex-sailor, that was funny.

Seriously though, it's time the ban was lifted. the whole ban is under the assumption that somehow it would catch like the flu, or that only gays would do inappropriate stuff (My boat was nicknamed 'The Love Boat' for the number of women on my ship that someone had conception dates that occured while we were underway).

[DragonStryk72]

I'm with you on that Gunny. I don't want a faggot in my fighting hole.

you know what, when I'm getting shot at, I have alot better damned things to worry about than who my partner in the fox hole is or is not sleeping with.... like *getting shot at*! At that point, the entire argument is moot, as the world becomes divided into two very distinct, but important, groups: People shooting at me, and the people who are helping me shoot the people who are shooting at me.

[DragonStryk72]

Seriously, I have no problem with our gay members on the board, but let me ask you something, if gays can serve openly, shouldnt we just let men and women shower and live in the same units wouldnt it be the same thing? :laugh2:

Im not trying to be mean, or critical, im just asking a question.

right now, no, but I do think that down the line, we're going to need to get past ALL of our sex issues, and learn some improved self-control.

[glockmail]

you know what, when I'm getting shot at, I have alot better damned things to worry about than who my partner in the fox hole is or is not sleeping with.... like *getting shot at*! At that point, the entire argument is moot, as the world becomes divided into two very distinct, but important, groups: People shooting at me, and the people who are helping me shoot the people who are shooting at me. The amount of time, on average, that a soldier spends actively getting shot at is miniscule with respect to the amount of time preparing for such an event. If he is not adequately prepared, then he is much less likely to survive such an event. I trust the leaders of the US Military to make decisions on how such preparations should be made,and with whom, based on centuries of tradition and leadership, over some guy posting on the internet.

[LiberalNation]

The military doesn't make such rules, congress does.

[Microcosmos]

The amount of time, on average, that a soldier spends actively getting shot at is miniscule with respect to the amount of time preparing for such an event. If he is not adequately prepared, then he is much less likely to survive such an event. I trust the leaders of the US Military to make decisions on how such preparations should be made,and with whom, based on centuries of tradition and leadership, over some guy posting on the internet.

I take it that means that when open gay relationships are finally officially supported by the military, we'll have your full support too!

[DragonStryk72]

You and I agree on a lot of things in regards to this subject. I do know they are in the service. The point is that "open" activity will cause issues in the units. Be honest, you know it would. Maybe not everybody, but a lot would have a big problem rooming with, showering with, sleeping in a tent with an openly gay man. It is just the sad truth. Is that wrong? To many, no it isn't. But to many it is. I don't know. I have served with people who I was sure were gay, both men and women. And they were great workers. Bt they did not do anything outward to show it if they were.
AF:salute:


Thank you for your service

The military has its rules, and you know them going in. The US military is not the place for libs to set up a lab for social experimenting

The same was said of blacks, and of women when they first entered the military. White soldiers would refuse bunking with blacks, and women got hazed in fairly interesting manner. the freedom of speech also allows the freedom to be a butthole. this does not mean that the military should lose troops over it. I don't care what their background, their orientation, or their outside life, as long as they have an honest desire to help protect this country, and the ability to carry out their job, then they deserve as much honor and respect as anyone else.

Now, as for me, I was Active Duty Navy, MM3 (Machnist's Mate, 3rd Class Petty Officer) on the LHD-5 USS Bataan (referred to as a gator freighter.), stationed out of Norfolk, VA (Still live here in Virginia, down in Va Beach.). I got out in 2000, just before everything lit up, much for the same reason, I did next to nothing, unless we went underway, at which point I got to spend 120+ hours a week in a 97 degree Aft Shaft Bearing (called The Pit), all this for basically doing turns about the North Atlantic. The only thing I really did of worth was Hurricane relief in Puerto Rico.

[DragonStryk72]

The amount of time, on average, that a soldier spends actively getting shot at is miniscule with respect to the amount of time preparing for such an event. If he is not adequately prepared, then he is much less likely to survive such an event. I trust the leaders of the US Military to make decisions on how such preparations should be made,and with whom, based on centuries of tradition and leadership, over some guy posting on the internet.

I assure you Glock, gays have been in the military for many centuries as well. They will continue to be there as well, because there is no law of discrimination that has ever managed to stand in this country.

And a leader of the US military did say that it should be allowed, a retired General, and you can trust that there are others as well who are going to come around to this point as well.

[glockmail]

I assure you Glock, gays have been in the military for many centuries as well. They will continue to be there as well, because there is no law of discrimination that has ever managed to stand in this country.

.... .

They don't let cripples in either.

[actsnoblemartin]

what about a crippled gay

:scared:


They don't let cripples in either.

[AFbombloader]

What about an overweight, crippled gay?

[actsnoblemartin]

what about an elderly, overweight, crippled gay?

:laugh2:


What about an overweight, crippled gay?

[Microcosmos]

:lol: Willing and able people, willing and able. But, given enough time, I bet we could find a few elderly, overweight, crippled gay women with asbestos poisoning who are doing their best to serve the military!

[actsnoblemartin]

:clap:

:laugh2:

that is classic


:lol: Willing and able people, willing and able. But, given enough time, I bet we could find a few elderly, overweight, crippled gay women with asbestos poisoning who are doing their best to serve the military!

[AFbombloader]

:lol: Willing and able people, willing and able. But, given enough time, I bet we could find a few elderly, overweight, crippled gay women with asbestos poisoning who are doing their best to serve the military!

What color is the sky in your world?

[glockmail]

What color is the sky in your world? Lavender?

[AFbombloader]

Lavender?

Not yours Glock! Micro's!

AF:salute:

[glockmail]

Not yours Glock! Micro's!

AF:salute:
:finger3: ;)

[truthmatters]

General Wants Gay Ban Lifted



Military.com | January 03, 2007

In an op-ed published in Tuesday's New York Times, John M. Shalikashvili, retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says Congress should give "serious reconsideration" to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the ban on openly lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel. Shalikashvili, who supported the ban on open service in 1993, writes that "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces," and goes on to say that "Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."

"'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is out of step with both the American public and those within our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, executive director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN). "The counsel of military leaders increasingly supports repeal of the law. Congress must, as General Shalikashvili urges, consider the overwhelming evidence of the past fourteen years. If they do, the clear answer is that we must lift the ban."

Shalikashvili, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs from 1993 to 1997, joins other senior retired military officers who have called for repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." In May 2006, Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (Ret.), the first female three-star officer in Army history, called the law "a hollow policy that serves no useful purpose." Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman, former superintendent of West Point, recently told The New York Times that "It is clear that national attitudes toward this issue have evolved considerably in the last decade. This has been led by a new generation of service members who take a more relaxed and tolerant view toward homosexuality." Retired Admiral John Hutson, who currently serves as Dean of Franklin Pierce Law School, also recently wrote that "It would be a great tragedy if we didn't take advantage of (the) chance to correct a flawed policy."

In 2003, two retired generals and an admiral 'came out' in the New York Times, and in November 2006 fourteen senior retired military officers urged the First Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the ban. They wrote that the law "undermines the military's ability to fulfill its primary mission of providing national security by discouraging the enlistment of gay persons qualified to serve their country and by expelling from the military those who have served with honor."

In today's op-ed, General Shalikashvili writes that "Last year I held a number of meetings with gay soldiers and marines, including some with combat experience in Iraq, and an openly gay senior sailor who was serving effectively as a member of a nuclear submarine crew. These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers."

A December 18th Zogby poll also found that 73% of military personnel polled were comfortable with lesbians and gays.

"General Shalikashvili's statement is the first by a Joint Chiefs Chairman to call for repeal, and as such is enormously significant," said Osburn. "The Pentagon has dismissed more than 11,000 men and women under this law. It is clear that enforcement of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is arbitrary. We continue to lose critical personnel who happen to be gay. As General Shalikashvili points out, continuing to keep this law on the books is detrimental to our national security."

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,121509,00.html?ESRC=airforce.nl


Gays have always served.

[actsnoblemartin]

the issue has been, to my knowledge, openly or not

Correct if im wrong on that instance. :coffee:


Gays have always served.

[Microcosmos]

What color is the sky in your world?

There's a big, beautiful rainbow, every day (and yes, the lavender sunsets are pretty amazing)! ;)

[Microcosmos]

the issue has been, to my knowledge, openly or not

Correct if im wrong on that instance. :coffee:

You're pretty much right on point. And serving openly means being able to live a normal life, not live in fear of losing your career or having to hide the fact that your "friend" and maybe even your "roommate" is actually your partner for life, for better or for worse. And it also means having things that others take for granted, like widow and widower pension benefits, among other pretty normal and non-threatening things. It does not mean violating any of the rules that all soldiers must adhere to to deserve the honor of being called a soldier.

[Pale Rider]

Gays have always served.

They lie to get in, but if found out, they're immediately kicked out, and that's the way it should be.

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree, and the current policy says gays can serve, they just cant ask anyone if theyre gay or tell anyone theyre gay.

its not a gay bar, its the military


They lie to get in, but if found out, they're immediately kicked out, and that's the way it should be.

[Pale Rider]

I agree, and the current policy says gays can serve, they just cant ask anyone if theyre gay or tell anyone theyre gay.
I don't mean to be contrary brother, because I know at the core of the issue, we're on the same page, but no, the military says they can't serve. Specifically, what dont ask, don't tell means, if a queer wants to be in the military, he/she has to SNEAK in, and lie about their sexual preferences. If they come ever come out and admit they're homo, out they go, period.


its not a gay bar, its the military
............. :lol: ............... :clap: ............ :salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

oh, i did not know that. im sorry brother pale.

Thank you for correcting me, i dont think they should be allowed to serve either.


I don't mean to be contrary brother, because I know at the core of the issue, we're on the same page, but no, the military says they can't serve. Specifically, what dont ask, don't tell means, if a queer wants to be in the military, he/she has to SNEAK in, and lie about their sexual preferences. If they come ever come out and admit they're homo, out they go, period.


............. :lol: ............... :clap: ............ :salute:

[Microcosmos]

I'm done with this thread.

[Pale Rider]

I'm done with this thread.

Understandable... nobody likes to try and defend the indefensible.

[actsnoblemartin]

common pale, he just wants to tackle other threads, cut the man a break :cheers2:


Understandable... nobody likes to try and defend the indefensible.

[Pale Rider]

common pale, he just wants to tackle other threads, cut the man a break :cheers2:

Yeah right... :laugh:

[glockmail]

You're pretty much right on point. And serving openly means being able to live a normal life, not live in fear of losing your career or having to hide the fact that your "friend" and maybe even your "roommate" is actually your partner for life, for better or for worse. And it also means having things that others take for granted, like widow and widower pension benefits, among other pretty normal and non-threatening things. It does not mean violating any of the rules that all soldiers must adhere to to deserve the honor of being called a soldier. Choose a more appropriate career, and give your "partner" power of attorney. Case closed.

[actsnoblemartin]

ok :dance: :cheers2:


Yeah right... :laugh:

[Pale Rider]

ok :dance: :cheers2:

Seriously... I thought you were joking.

On the other hand, I was serious, about the fact that defending faggots in the military is a losing proposition, and that's why he gave up.

[actsnoblemartin]

agreed.


Choose a more appropriate career, and give your "partner" power of attorney. Case closed.

[actsnoblemartin]

I thought you were being hard on him at first, no pun intended :laugh2:. But you were just being you :)

Sorry mate

:dance:


Seriously... I thought you were joking.

On the other hand, I was serious, about the fact that defending faggots in the military is a losing proposition, and that's why he gave up.

[Pale Rider]

I thought you were being hard on him at first, no pun intended :laugh2:. But you were just being you :)

Sorry mate

:dance:

Hey.... think you're a funny guy aye.... :laugh:

[actsnoblemartin]

maybe :laugh2:
Hey.... think you're a funny guy aye.... :laugh:

[Pale Rider]

maybe :laugh2:

In any case, one thing is reassuring, and that's that I know you're not a fag. You know the difference between right and wrong.

[LuvRPgrl]

I don't mean to be contrary brother, because I know at the core of the issue, we're on the same page, but no, the military says they can't serve. Specifically, what dont ask, don't tell means, if a queer wants to be in the military, he/she has to SNEAK in, and lie about their sexual preferences. If they come ever come out and admit they're homo, out they go, period.


............. :lol: ............... :clap: ............ :salute:

I dont mean to be contrary either, but I agree with ANM. He states the policy is...not the rules

Its like, illegal for mexicans to come across the border without doc's, and thats what the law says, but the US POLICY at the moment ignores that.

[Pale Rider]

I dont mean to be contrary either, but I agree with ANM. He states the policy is...not the rules

Its like, illegal for mexicans to come across the border without doc's, and thats what the law says, but the US POLICY at the moment ignores that.

Well, the military isn't ignoring homos. If they lie their way in and then out themselves, they're gone. I spent eight years active duty and saw it happen, so I'm telling you the facts as they've been witnessed. If you have any doubts, find yourself a recruiting station, walk in and tell them you want to join, and then say, "oh by the way, I'm a homo." You will be shown the door.

[Pale Rider]

Given the state of our military, and what is being expected of the troops we have on hand.... I'm almost wondering to myself if I've been wrong on this issue.

Someone would still have to explain to me how it could be made to work...

[Noir]

America; the land of the free they say.
but you better not be gay -God forbid- those who oppose open gay people in the armed forces baffle me, they are standing up in defense (and offense) of your nation and the rights that you hold, but dare they mention there sexual preference...oh the shame :rolleyes:

[Pale Rider]

America; the land of the free they say.
but you better not be gay -God forbid- those who oppose open gay people in the armed forces baffle me, they are standing up in defense (and offense) of your nation and the rights that you hold, but dare they mention there sexual preference...oh the shame :rolleyes:

There are logistical problems with having queers in the military, i.e., where and how to house them while in basic training. You can't have them in with men, and you can't have them in with each other. The only logical way appears to be the homo men in with the girls one at a time, and homo girls in with the men one at a time. But then there's no guarantee that would work either.

So I challenge anyone to figure this out....

[retiredman]

There are logistical problems with having queers in the military, i.e., where and how to house them while in basic training. You can't have them in with men, and you can't have them in with each other. The only logical way appears to be the homo men in with the girls one at a time, and homo girls in with the men one at a time. But then there's no guarantee that would work either.

So I challenge anyone to figure this out....

gays have been joining the military for a long time, and most folks figured out fairly quickly who they were. In my years of service, I knew of scores of sailors who were gay and the crew was pretty much equally aware. I saw two problems situations in 25 years...

[Pale Rider]

gays have been joining the military for a long time, and most folks figured out fairly quickly who they were. In my years of service, I knew of scores of sailors who were gay and the crew was pretty much equally aware. I saw two problems situations in 25 years...

Well... aside from the fact that I find it hard to believe most of what you say, you totally ignored my question...

[retiredman]

Well... aside from the fact that I find it hard to believe most of what you say, you totally ignored my question...


if you don't believe what I say, then for crissakes, leave me the fuck alone. Don't feel compelled to answer me if you think I am a compulsive liar.

Like I said...your question supposes a problem that does not exist.

[Pale Rider]

if you don't believe what I say, then for crissakes, leave me the fuck alone. Don't feel compelled to answer me if you think I am a compulsive liar.

Like I said...your question supposes a problem that does not exist.

So why the fuck are you answering me if you think I'm a liar dumb fuck?

You have this double standard thingy down pat don't you. It's all about you isn't it? You can do however you like, but goddamn anybody treat YOU the way you treat THEM!

Get off your cloud man... get with it or step the fuck out.

My question is for a scenario that presently does not exist, which is, the military "openly" allowing homos to join. What possible solution could there be to processing them through basic training?

If you can answer that, answer it. If you can't, shut the fuck up.

[retiredman]

So why the fuck are you answering me if you think I'm a liar dumb fuck?

You have this double standard thingy down pat don't you. It's all about you isn't it? You can do however you like, but goddamn anybody treat YOU the way you treat THEM!

Get off your cloud man... get with it or step the fuck out.

My question is for a scenario that presently does not exist, which is, the military "openly" allowing homos to join. What possible solution could there be to processing them through basic training?

If you can answer that, answer it. If you can't, shut the fuck up.

As I said earlier, I do not think that the process needs to change one iota. You merely continue to punish violations of the UCMJ just like always.

and if you think you can make me shut the fuck up, why don't you ask you daddy if you can borrow his motorcycle, skip school, drive on out to Maine, and MAKE me shut the fuck up, you whiny little pussy.

[Pale Rider]

As I said earlier, I do not think that the process needs to change one iota. You merely continue to punish violations of the UCMJ just like always.

and if you think you can make me shut the fuck up, why don't you ask you daddy if you can borrow his motorcycle, skip school, drive on out to Maine, and MAKE me shut the fuck up, you whiny little pussy.

HA AH HAHA HA HA HAHA.... OK... you're a tough guy.... HA AH HA HA HA HA HA.... in your fucking dreams sitting there with your smoother than a baby's butt, sissie little hands you are.... AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA.... cut the tough guy talk mfm.... you're a blubber assed little dough boy, and to kick your ass would equate to me kicking my neighbors cat. I don't beat up little bubble ass jelly belly softies.... there's no challenge....AHA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Now... you dense fuck... in all your superior intellect, you're either intentionally playing stupid again, or, you actually really are that stupid. Let's try this again... what... for the THIRD TIME NOW... and see if you GET IT.... let's say.... that the military were to OPENLY ALLOW HOMOS TO JOIN, tell me, just how would the military handle the logistics of putting them through BASIC TRAINING?

[retiredman]

Now... you dense fuck... in all your superior intellect, you're either intentionally playing stupid again, or, you actually really are that stupid. Let's try this again... what... for the THIRD TIME NOW... and see if you GET IT.... let's say.... that the military were to OPENLY ALLOW HOMOS TO JOIN, tell me, just how would the military handle the logistics of putting them through BASIC TRAINING?


I fully understand your question and I answered your question, pale. Nothing needs to be done. period. The UCMJ needs to be adhered to.

Did you go through basic training? Have you always been this irrationally homophobic, or maybe you secretly wish that gay men would be attracted to you?

[Pale Rider]

I fully understand your question and I answered your question, pale. Nothing needs to be done. period. The UCMJ needs to be adhered to.
Can't do that mfm. Can't do that. You could not let openly homo men walk into a shower with 50 other naked men. You might as well let straight men get naked and shower up with naked women, and we both know what would happen there. It won't work. It's a problem with no solution, unless you're a genius and can come up with something the rest of us can't.


Did you go through basic training? Have you always been this irrationally homophobic, or maybe you secretly wish that gay men would be attracted to you?
I wish I could go downtown and predict what I was going to be dealt at the Black Jack table as well as I can predict you liberals love to call anyone questioning faggots a homophobe. So utterly predictable... and pathetic.

Yeah... I spent eight years in the Air Force.... I guess I did go through basic... :uhoh:

[retiredman]

Can't do that mfm. Can't do that. You could not let openly homo men walk into a shower with 50 other naked men. You might as well let straight men get naked and shower up with naked women, and we both know what would happen there. It won't work. It's a problem with no solution, unless you're a genius and can come up with something the rest of us can't.


I wish I could go downtown and predict what I was going to be dealt at the Black Jack table as well as I can predict you liberals love to call anyone questioning faggots a homophobe. So utterly predictable... and pathetic.

Yeah... I spent eight years in the Air Force.... I guess I did go through basic... :uhoh:

if you have been in a group shower with other men, the chances are excellent that you were standing there naked with gay men. What does the fact that they are open about it have to do? Do you think they would come over to you as the hot water cascaded off your mane of grecian formula darkened hair and want to caress you? Do you think that, as they stood there in the shower that they would become so aroused that they would get an erection? What do you think would happen? What DID happen? We were well aware of who the gay sailors were... most of them, in any case... and the UCMJ still would apply. Homosexual beliefs are not against the UCMJ, sodomy is. Punish violations of the UCMJ. The fact that YOU might have a problem with that should make you glad that you went through that country club sometimes referred to as air force basic training already so that you wouldn't have to deal with it. Most young men I know would not have a problem with it. Both of my totally hetero sons would laugh at your unfounded fears.

[Pale Rider]

if you have been in a group shower with other men, the chances are excellent that you were standing there naked with gay men. What does the fact that they are open about it have to do? Do you think they would come over to you as the hot water cascaded off your mane of grecian formula darkened hair and want to caress you? Do you think that, as they stood there in the shower that they would become so aroused that they would get an erection? What do you think would happen? What DID happen? We were well aware of who the gay sailors were... most of them, in any case... and the UCMJ still would apply. Homosexual beliefs are not against the UCMJ, sodomy is. Punish violations of the UCMJ. The fact that YOU might have a problem with that should make you glad that you went through that country club sometimes referred to as air force basic training already so that you wouldn't have to deal with it. Most young men I know would not have a problem with it. Both of my totally hetero sons would laugh at your unfounded fears.

Well you and your sons cavalier attitude towards fags staring down your meat isn't shared with every other man on earth. However, I do realize you being liberal, you'd probably take it as a compliment and wag it around. I on the other hand would be offended and knock them out. That's where the trouble lies. Men who are real men, not partially bi like you and your liberal brethren, find homosexuality in it's entirety to be offensive, perverted and disgusting. We want nothing to do with it. We don't want to be around it. We don't want it PUSHED at us without a CHOICE! Someone would get hurt. Namely the first little homo in the shower who DID get a hard on staring at all the other men. You over looking the very real possibility that would happen not only would put fags in danger and make the straight men uncomfortable, but is an outright flawed and unmindful suggestion.

Try saying something real.... try being original.

[retiredman]

Well you and your sons cavalier attitude towards fags staring down your meat isn't shared with every other man on earth. However, I do realize you being liberal, you'd probably take it as a compliment and wag it around. I on the other hand would be offended and knock them out. That's where the trouble lies. Men who are real men, not partially bi like you and your liberal brethren, find homosexuality in it's entirety to be offensive, perverted and disgusting. We want nothing to do with it. We don't want to be around it. We don't want it PUSHED at us without a CHOICE! Someone would get hurt. Namely the first little homo in the shower who DID get a hard on staring at all the other men. You over looking the very real possibility that would happen not only would put fags in danger and make the straight men uncomfortable, but is an outright flawed and unmindful suggestion.

Try saying something real.... try being original.


andyou think that calling me "bi" is saying something "real"? Knock off the insults. I did.

Like I said, do you honestly think that, had you ever been in a group shower situation, that you were always there with only heterosexual men? That is delusional. So....did anybody ever sprout wood in the shower? No...of course not.... and if some guy's sexual preference WERE known, don't you think he'd be scared shitless to even think of being aroused in that sort of situation just because of troglodytes like you?

And just like sodomy is against the UCMJ, so is assault. gay guys keep their hands to themselves, homophobic guys like you keep their baseball bats to themselves. YOu deal with it. Navy ships now have women in the crews... when I was in, many folks were certain that such a transition could not be made without lots of heartburn. They did it. And living quarters are extraordinarily cramped onboard navy combatants. If you can incorporate men and women together in fighting units, you can incorporate gays and straights into fighting units. same isues.

[glockmail]

if you have been in a group shower with other men, the chances are excellent that you were standing there naked with gay men. What does the fact that they are open about it have to do? Do you think they would come over to you as the hot water cascaded off your mane of grecian formula darkened hair and want to caress you? Do you think that, as they stood there in the shower that they would become so aroused that they would get an erection? ....
It looks like you've got experience with that. So tell us what happened next: "In the Navy". :lol:

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[Noir]

God lord there are allot of personal insults on this site but no matter.

Is your only gripe that they are open? Inwhich case you wouldn't mind showering with a gay person aslong as you didn't know they were gay, so why does knowing their sexuality create such a problem? As for where they would sleep...why not let them sleep with everyone else? Just because they're gay doesn't mean they're gonna rape every other guy in the building so why can't they sleep with everyone else of the same sexuality?

[glockmail]

Personally my gripe is that by being homosexulas they have demonstrated their inability to make decisions wisely.

[Pale Rider]

First you insult me and every other man and woman that's ever served in the Air Force by calling it a country club, and go on to say you and your sons would laugh at me, then you have the audacity say...


andyou think that calling me "bi" is saying something "real"? Knock off the insults. I did.
Sometimes man... you're just too much to hardly put up with, and then you follow with a the post below just chocked full of insults...


Like I said, do you honestly think that, had you ever been in a group shower situation, that you were always there with only heterosexual men? That is delusional. So....did anybody ever sprout wood in the shower? No...of course not.... and if some guy's sexual preference WERE known, don't you think he'd be scared shitless to even think of being aroused in that sort of situation just because of troglodytes like you?

And just like sodomy is against the UCMJ, so is assault. gay guys keep their hands to themselves, homophobic guys like you keep their baseball bats to themselves. YOu deal with it. Navy ships now have women in the crews... when I was in, many folks were certain that such a transition could not be made without lots of heartburn. They did it. And living quarters are extraordinarily cramped onboard navy combatants. If you can incorporate men and women together in fighting units, you can incorporate gays and straights into fighting units. same isues.

Now... until you can control your own smart assed pie hole, DO NOT expect me to stop... got that skip? I hope so. You've got a pretty think skull.

Now, homosexuality is against the UCMJ jerk off, PERIOD. Sodomy is just what faggots love to do. But if a queer walks into his commanders office and say's, "I'm a homo sir," he's going be kicked out of the military in a matter of hours, the act of sodomy be damned. It's got nothing to do with it. And cramped quarters hasn't got anything to do with it either. People have their fucking clothes on don't they? Of course they do. That matter at hand is putting FAGGOTS naked in showers with STRAIGHTS! That WILL NOT WORK. So one or two sneaks through now and then, and they're good at hiding it, so the fuck what? Change that to each new group in basic, no matter what branch of service, has five or six homo boys in with the men, first time on of them is caught sucking the others ones dong, or they're playing in the shower at full mast, there's going to be massive trouble. You put me in a shower full of naked women and the same is going to be true. So what you're saying is just hog wash. You can NOT have homos in with straights en mass. It just won't work, not to mention the military would NEVER ALLOW IT! You may as well have straight men shower with straight women... hell just put EVERYBODY in together. Won't work.

Obviously you haven't thought this through at all. You're just spouting liberal crap, and it's no good.

And if you REALLY want me to stop the insults, you'll have to check your lip service at the door as well. Works both ways junior.

[glockmail]

I suspect that MFM aka HFM has been balls-on-chin so many times that he likes queers. :lol:

[Pale Rider]

I suspect that MFM aka HFM has been balls-on-chin so many times that he likes queers. :lol:

Well... he did state that him AND his sons laugh at straight people.

[retiredman]

First you insult me and every other man and woman that's ever served in the Air Force by calling it a country club, and go on to say you and your sons would laugh at me, then you have the audacity say...


Sometimes man... you're just too much to hardly put up with, and then you follow with a the post below just chocked full of insults...



Now... until you can control your own smart assed pie hole, DO NOT expect me to stop... got that skip? I hope so. You've got a pretty think skull.

Now, homosexuality is against the UCMJ jerk off, PERIOD. Sodomy is just what faggots love to do. But if a queer walks into his commanders office and say's, "I'm a homo sir," he's going be kicked out of the military in a matter of hours, the act of sodomy be damned. It's got nothing to do with it. And cramped quarters hasn't got anything to do with it either. People have their fucking clothes on don't they? Of course they do. That matter at hand is putting FAGGOTS naked in showers with STRAIGHTS! That WILL NOT WORK. So one or two sneaks through now and then, and they're good at hiding it, so the fuck what? Change that to each new group in basic, no matter what branch of service, has five or six homo boys in with the men, first time on of them is caught sucking the others ones dong, or they're playing in the shower at full mast, there's going to be massive trouble. You put me in a shower full of naked women and the same is going to be true. So what you're saying is just hog wash. You can NOT have homos in with straights en mass. It just won't work, not to mention the military would NEVER ALLOW IT! You may as well have straight men shower with straight women... hell just put EVERYBODY in together. Won't work.

Obviously you haven't thought this through at all. You're just spouting liberal crap, and it's no good.

And if you REALLY want me to stop the insults, you'll have to check your lip service at the door as well. Works both ways junior.


please, kind sir, quote me the UCMJ article that mentions homosexuality. I'll wait.

and like I said, if you have ever been in a group shower (which they really have very few of anymore once out on active duty), then, no doubt, you have been naked in front of naked gay men. Have you EVER seen a gay man sprout a woodie in the shower? Ever?

[Pale Rider]

please, kind sir, quote me the UCMJ article that mentions homosexuality. I'll wait.
Find it yourself. We both know that if a homo sneaks into the military, and is later discovered to be homosexual, he is immediately discharged. That is the law, and we both know it. Please stop trying to be cute just to prolong a debate.


and like I said, if you have ever been in a group shower (which they really have very few of anymore once out on active duty), then, no doubt, you have been naked in front of naked gay men. Have you EVER seen a gay man sprout a woodie in the shower? Ever?
You can't make that claim any more than I can say you had a hot suck off with a dozen fags last night. You don't know... I don't know. Please stick to what you can prove and know as fact.

Fact... the military can not and will never allow en mass, homos enter the military, and then put them in a situation where they are naked with thirty or forty other straight men. The only reason it intermittently happens now is because the queers SNEAK in, lying about their illness.

But to get back to the same old question I've asked THREE TIMES NOW... and am still waiting for a plausible answer, how is it logistically that the military could induct large amounts of homos? How would their basic training be handled? Now answer THAT!

And I'll wait... :popcorn:

[AFbombloader]

please, kind sir, quote me the UCMJ article that mentions homosexuality. I'll wait.

and like I said, if you have ever been in a group shower (which they really have very few of anymore once out on active duty), then, no doubt, you have been naked in front of naked gay men. Have you EVER seen a gay man sprout a woodie in the shower? Ever?

While you will not fond the word "homosexuality" in the UCMJ, you will find where it says the acts are illegal. Are you going to play semantics??? I know you know what this says. Keep reading and you will find the US code that applies.

Here is what they violate and could be charged with.

Article 83 -Fraudulent enlistment, appointment, or separation

(1) procures his own enlistment or appointment in the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his qualifications for that enlistment or appointment and receives pay or allowances thereunder; or

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Article 120, Rape, sexual assault, and other sexual misconduct

Indecent act

(a) That the accused engaged in certain conduct; and

(b) That the conduct was indecent conduct.

Article 125,Sodomy

“(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.

(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by punished as a court-martial may direct.”



You can also refer to this. http://web.mit.edu/committees/rotc/code.html

US Code Title 10, Subtitle G, Section 654:

Policy Concerning Homosexuality in the Armed Forces

(13) The prohibition against homosexual conduct is a

longstanding element of military law that continues to be

necessary in the unique circumstances of military service.

(14) The armed forces must maintain personnel policies that

exclude persons whose presence in the armed forces would create

an unacceptable risk to the armed forces' high standards of

morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the

essence of military capability.

(15) The presence in the armed forces of persons who

demonstrate a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts

would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of

morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the

essence of military capability.

(b) Policy. - A member of the armed forces shall be separated

from the armed forces under regulations prescribed by the Secretary

of Defense if one or more of the following findings is made and

approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such

regulations:

(1) That the member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, or

solicited another to engage in a homosexual act or acts unless

there are further findings, made and approved in accordance with

procedures set forth in such regulations, that the member has

demonstrated that -


(A) such conduct is a departure from the member's usual and

customary behavior;

(B) such conduct, under all the circumstances, is unlikely to

recur;

(C) such conduct was not accomplished by use of force,

coercion, or intimidation;

(D) under the particular circumstances of the case, the

member's continued presence in the armed forces is consistent

with the interests of the armed forces in proper discipline,

good order, and morale; and

(E) the member does not have a propensity or intent to engage

in homosexual acts.

(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual

or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further

finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set

forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that

he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in,

has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual

acts.



Have a nice day!

AF:salute:

[retiredman]

no semantics at all... homosexuality is not mentioned in the UCMJ and Pale Rider had said it was. He was wrong and I was right. That was my point. If gay servicemen do not engage in conduct that is against the UCMJ, there is no problem if we changed policy and allowed openly gay citizens to join the armed forces.

[Pale Rider]

no semantics at all... homosexuality is not mentioned in the UCMJ and Pale Rider had said it was. He was wrong and I was right. That was my point. If gay servicemen do not engage in conduct that is against the UCMJ, there is no problem if we changed policy and allowed openly gay citizens to join the armed forces.

Show me where I said it... I'll wait... :popcorn:

And after you exhaust yourself trying, maybe then you'll stop playing games and answer the question I've asked you three times already.

[retiredman]

Show me where I said it... I'll wait... :popcorn:

And after you exhaust yourself trying, maybe then you'll stop playing games and answer the question I've asked you three times already.


from your post 1441 above:

Now, homosexuality is against the UCMJ jerk off, PERIOD

any other questions?

[Pale Rider]

from your post 1441 above:

Now, homosexuality is against the UCMJ jerk off, PERIOD

any other questions?

I was hoping you'd do that, now I get to play your word parsing game.... "yeah, but I didn't say it said *homosexuality* IN the UCMJ." I just said it was *against* the UCMJ.... :laugh:

More of your own medicine.... how do you like it? Yeah I know.... looks real STUPID, but I'm only doing it for illustration purposes.

[retiredman]

I was hoping you'd do that, now I get to play your word parsing game.... "yeah, but I didn't say it said *homosexuality* IN the UCMJ." I just said it was *against* the UCMJ.... :laugh:

More of your own medicine.... how do you like it? Yeah I know.... looks real STUPID, but I'm only doing it for illustration purposes.


homosexuality is NOT against the UCMJ.. only sexual behavior associated with homosexuality much like oral sex is against the UCMJ. They obviously didn't teach you much about the UCMJ when you were in the Air Force country club, did they?

[Pale Rider]

homosexuality is NOT against the UCMJ.. only sexual behavior associated with homosexuality much like oral sex is against the UCMJ. They obviously didn't teach you much about the UCMJ when you were in the Air Force country club, did they?

Even when your own dumb ass games are thrown right back in your face, you persist. Just goes to show what brand of an idiot you really are mfm, and explains why many here won't give you the time of day squid boy. Ain't my fault the Navy is full of homos... no wonder you liked it so much.

[retiredman]

Even when your own dumb ass games are thrown right back in your face, you persist. Just goes to show what brand of an idiot you really are mfm, and explains why many here won't give you the time of day squid boy. Ain't my fault the Navy is full of homos... no wonder you liked it so much.and yet, you can't escape the fact that there is NOTHING in the UCMJ that bars someone who openly expresses their homosexuality from serving in the armed forces. Casting inaccurate aspersions on MY sexuality only shows how desperate you really are. punk.:poke:

[AFbombloader]

and yet, you can't escape the fact that there is NOTHING in the UCMJ that bars someone who openly expresses their homosexuality from serving in the armed forces. Casting inaccurate aspersions on MY sexuality only shows how desperate you really are. punk.:poke:

Nothing except the fraudlent enlistment thing, which is against the UCMJ. And homosexuality is illegal in the military per US Code Title 10, Subtitle G, Section 654, which I showed you in my last post. What more do you need to admit it is illegal per both the US Code and the UCMJ? Do you want an article that specifically says "Homosexuality is illegal"? There is always Article 134, which covers anything not specifically mentioned, like homosexuality.

And I take offence to your reference that the AF is a country club. It doesn't add to your minimal credibility to say things like that. You were in the Navy, like you have one clue about the AF.

AF:salute:

[retiredman]

Nothing except the fraudlent enlistment thing, which is against the UCMJ. And homosexuality is illegal in the military per US Code Title 10, Subtitle G, Section 654, which I showed you in my last post. What more do you need to admit it is illegal per both the US Code and the UCMJ? Do you want an article that specifically says "Homosexuality is illegal"? There is always Article 134, which covers anything not specifically mentioned, like homosexuality.

And I take offence to your reference that the AF is a country club. It doesn't add to your minimal credibility to say things like that. You were in the Navy, like you have one clue about the AF.


you come in late to a conversation... and you miss the premise.

The QUESTION from Pole Rider, was IF we allowed openly gay people to enlist, how would that work? Clearly, for that question to make any sense, the statutory prohibitions against homosexuals in the military would be eliminated. I suggested that the way it would work would be to enforce the UCMJ.... whether it be Article 125 OR Article 128. service members who committed sodomy would be tossed, and service members who assaulted other service members (because, supposedly, they were gay) would also be tossed.

And I did enough joint tours with zoomies to know what a sweet gig you guys had! Take your faux "offense" and put it where the sun don't shine. ;)

[AFbombloader]

you come in late to a conversation... and you miss the premise.

The QUESTION from Pole Rider, was IF we allowed openly gay people to enlist, how would that work? Clearly, for that question to make any sense, the statutory prohibitions against homosexuals in the military would be eliminated. I suggested that the way it would work would be to enforce the UCMJ.... whether it be Article 125 OR Article 128. service members who committed sodomy would be tossed, and service members who assaulted other service members (because, supposedly, they were gay) would also be tossed.

Just because I didn't post a reply earlier does not mean I wasn't reading, I didn't come to this late. I agree with Pale so I didn't feel you needed to hear it again. Maybe you did. Right now all homosexuals in the military are guilty of violating article 83, can you admit that?

[LiberalNation]

Except it's not that cut and dry, a lot of people aren't sure of their exact sexuality at say 18 when they join.

Me, I may end up with a girl or a guy when I finally find someone to spend my life with. I don't have anything seriously against guys especially if he had some redeemable quality like money.

[retiredman]

Just because I didn't post a reply earlier does not mean I wasn't reading, I didn't come to this late. I agree with Pale so I didn't feel you needed to hear it again. Maybe you did. Right now all homosexuals in the military are guilty of violating article 83, can you admit that?

only if they engage in sodomy, marry someone of the same sex, or announce that they are homosexual.

I served with plenty of gays in my careeer... a couple of them are fairly close friends.... they did not "come out" until either they retired or their enlistment was up or they had resigned their commission. They were not, therefore, guilty of violating article 83.

[AFbombloader]

Except it's not that cut and dry, a lot of people aren't sure of their exact sexuality at say 18 when they join.

Me, I may end up with a girl or a guy when I finally find someone to spend my life with. I don't have anything seriously against guys especially if he had some redeemable quality like money.

LN, so according to your point, homosexuality is a choice????? I thought it was the way you were born???

MFM, they are guilty of violating article 83 if they are in any branch of the military and they are homosexual, they enlisted fraudulently. Recruiters cannot ask, but it is illegal to be in the forces if you are a homosexual.

AF:salute:

[LiberalNation]

Do I think it's a choice what body type you find attractive, nope. Who you sleep with, sure, you can deny yourself if you want.

If it was a choice between hot sex with some chick and a financially stable guy I "liked" and who'd take care of me, I would choose the latter.

[Missileman]

MFM, they are guilty of violating article 83 if they are in any branch of the military and they are homosexual, they enlisted fraudulently. Recruiters cannot ask, but it is illegal to be in the forces if you are a homosexual.

AF:salute:

Doesn't this:


(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual

or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further

finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set

forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that

he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in,

has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual

acts.

in fact say that a person has to act on their homosexuality before it's a dischargeable matter?

[AFbombloader]

Doesn't this:



in fact say that a person has to act on their homosexuality before it's a dischargeable matter?

Actually, read the last line. It says "or intends to engage in homosexual acts" so no they do not have to act on it.

That was from the US Code not the UCMJ.

AF:salute:

[retiredman]

LN, so according to your point, homosexuality is a choice????? I thought it was the way you were born???

MFM, they are guilty of violating article 83 if they are in any branch of the military and they are homosexual, they enlisted fraudulently. Recruiters cannot ask, but it is illegal to be in the forces if you are a homosexual.

AF:salute:


it is illegate to be in the forces if you perform sodomy or marry your own gender or announce that you are homosexual. Merely being a homosexual is not against the UCMJ OR the US Code.

[Pale Rider]

and yet, you can't escape the fact that there is NOTHING in the UCMJ that bars someone who openly expresses their homosexuality from serving in the armed forces. Casting inaccurate aspersions on MY sexuality only shows how desperate you really are. punk.:poke:

Well... yeah there is. You just like to play games... like a little child. You're getting real well known for it around here lately... runt.

[Pale Rider]

you come in late to a conversation... and you miss the premise.

The QUESTION from Pole Rider, was IF we allowed openly gay people to enlist, how would that work? Clearly, for that question to make any sense, the statutory prohibitions against homosexuals in the military would be eliminated. I suggested that the way it would work would be to enforce the UCMJ.... whether it be Article 125 OR Article 128. service members who committed sodomy would be tossed, and service members who assaulted other service members (because, supposedly, they were gay) would also be tossed.

And I did enough joint tours with zoomies to know what a sweet gig you guys had! Take your faux "offense" and put it where the sun don't shine. ;)

My question included the premise that homosexuality would no longer get you tossed out of the military, and the specific question was, how would homosexuals be handled as far as what to do with them in basic training? Now did that sink into your thick skull pin head? You can't put them in with straight men, en mass. You can't put them in with straight girls, en mass, and they shouldn't be all together either. So what do you do with them swabby?

[Pale Rider]

Do I think it's a choice what body type you find attractive, nope. Who you sleep with, sure, you can deny yourself if you want.

If it was a choice between hot sex with some chick and a financially stable guy I "liked" and who'd take care of me, I would choose the latter.

Hmmm... I think maybe you do like guys. You'd take a hot guy with cash and real meat over a hot chick with cash and a strap on.

Yeah you've just been kidding yourself, and you weren't born that way. You're just playing around with a preversion.

[AFbombloader]

it is illegate to be in the forces if you perform sodomy or marry your own gender or announce that you are homosexual. Merely being a homosexual is not against the UCMJ OR the US Code.

I didn't write the US Code, but is sure is plain as black and white. Let me copy is again so you don't have to look very far. I will even change the color, if you are having trouble comprehending it.

US Code Title 10, Subtitle G, Section 654:

Policy Concerning Homosexuality in the Armed Forces

(13) The prohibition against homosexual conduct is a longstanding element of military law that continues to be necessary in the unique circumstances of military service.

(14) The armed forces must maintain personnel policies that exclude persons whose presence in the armed forces would create an unacceptable risk to the armed forces' high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability.

(15) The presence in the armed forces of persons who demonstrate a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability.

(b) Policy. - A member of the armed forces shall be separated from the armed forces under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense if one or more of the following findings is made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulations:

(1) That the member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, or solicited another to engage in a homosexual act or acts unless there are further findings, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulations, that the member has demonstrated that -


(A) such conduct is a departure from the member's usual and customary behavior;

(B) such conduct, under all the circumstances, is unlikely to recur;

(C) such conduct was not accomplished by use of force, coercion, or intimidation;

(D) under the particular circumstances of the case, the member's continued presence in the armed forces is consistent with the interests of the armed forces in proper discipline, good order, and morale; and

(E) the member does not have a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts.

(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts.

Fairly plain how it is against the US Code.

AF:salute:

[Pale Rider]

I didn't write the US Code, but is sure is plain as black and white. Let me copy is again so you don't have to look very far. I will even change the color, if you are having trouble comprehending it.

US Code Title 10, Subtitle G, Section 654:

Policy Concerning Homosexuality in the Armed Forces

(13) The prohibition against homosexual conduct is a longstanding element of military law that continues to be necessary in the unique circumstances of military service.

(14) The armed forces must maintain personnel policies that exclude persons whose presence in the armed forces would create an unacceptable risk to the armed forces' high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability.

(15) The presence in the armed forces of persons who demonstrate a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability.

(b) Policy. - A member of the armed forces shall be separated from the armed forces under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense if one or more of the following findings is made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulations:

(1) That the member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, or solicited another to engage in a homosexual act or acts unless there are further findings, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulations, that the member has demonstrated that -


(A) such conduct is a departure from the member's usual and customary behavior;

(B) such conduct, under all the circumstances, is unlikely to recur;

(C) such conduct was not accomplished by use of force, coercion, or intimidation;

(D) under the particular circumstances of the case, the member's continued presence in the armed forces is consistent with the interests of the armed forces in proper discipline, good order, and morale; and

(E) the member does not have a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts.

(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts.

Fairly plain how it is against the US Code.

AF:salute:

AFb... it won't matter if you mold it into the bottom of a cast iron frying pan and smacked him in the face with it so it was imprinted in his forehead. This little homofrommaine will play games, twist, spin, deny and outright lie his shit caked brown eye off before he'll admit to anything he doesn't want to. He's a pathetic man living a colossally distorted and awry life. I know, you know, the rest of the world knows along with the man in the moon, and even he does, but he'll NEVER admit it. Never. That would mean he's wrong, and he's utterly incapable of admitting that.

[Missileman]

Actually, read the last line. It says "or intends to engage in homosexual acts" so no they do not have to act on it.

That was from the US Code not the UCMJ.

AF:salute:

And if the person, although a homosexual, intends to abstain from homosexual acts while in the military?

[Missileman]

(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts.
Fairly plain how it is against the US Code.

AF:salute:

Fairly plain that it's all about engaging in the act.

[Pale Rider]

Fairly plain that it's all about engaging in the act.

Fairly plain just "having the propensity for" is what it's about as well.

Why do you people argue such obviously wrong points? Is it just for the sake of an argument?

[Missileman]

Fairly plain just "having the propensity for" is what it's about as well.

Why do you people argue such obviously wrong points? Is it just for the sake of an argument?

It doesn't say "propensity FOR" . It says "propensity TO ENGAGE IN".

[retiredman]

men and women who enter the priesthood and sisterhood of the Catholic Church agree to live celibate lives.

I do not see how a gay man or woman, who intends to live a celibate life while on active duty is precluded by any law from joining the military.

[Pale Rider]

It doesn't say "propensity FOR" . It says "propensity TO ENGAGE IN".

What the fuck is the difference? Jesus Christ you two... what a couple of absolute fucking MORONS! You two play this little, "it depends on what the meaning of IS is," game.... it's fucking STUPID! You two are fucking stupid. My God.... :talk2hand:

No mystery why people don't like to respond to either of you two idiots... playing your dumb ass little parsing games. And you're even too damn dumb to realise that people can see right through it and think you're a couple of ding bats.... yeah, be real proud of yourselves.... pppphht.

[retiredman]

What the fuck is the difference? Jesus Christ you two... what a couple of absolute fucking MORONS! You two play this little, "it depends on what the meaning of IS is," game.... it's fucking STUPID! You two are fucking stupid. My God.... :talk2hand:

No mystery why people don't like to respond to either of you two idiots... playing your dumb ass little parsing games. And you're even too damn dumb to realise that people can see right through it and think you're a couple of ding bats.... yeah, be real proud of yourselves.... pppphht.


fuck you very much:coffee:

post 1473...address it or shut the fuck up.

[Pale Rider]

fuck you very much:coffee:

post 1473...address it or shut the fuck up.

Fuck off an die you turd suckin' homo.

And you're no more a preacher than the greasy pervert down at the massage parlor you scummy suck ass pig. You're a filthy liar and a scab of a human being.

No wonder you're hiding out up there in back woods Maine. You probably got your ass kicked out in public acting like the horses butt you are everywhere else. :laugh:

Yes it's my guess you don't have any "old" friends, because anyone that's been around you over a week has already figured out what kind of a lying piece of shit you are, and they avoid you like the plague.

Now go cut your dick off... because we don't need anymore copies of you walking around than there already are.

[retiredman]

Fuck off an die you turd suckin' homo.

And you're no more a preacher than the greasy pervert down at the massage parlor you scummy suck ass pig. You're a filthy liar and a scab of a human being.

No wonder you're hiding out up there in back woods Maine. You probably got your ass kicked out in public acting like the horses butt you are everywhere else. :laugh:

nice touch.

I guess when you are getting your greasy ass kicked in a debate, the only thing left for you is totally off subject personal attacks...

that really doesnt surprise me.:laugh2:

would you like me to PM you the text of my sermon today? It might do you some good!

[Pale Rider]

nice touch.

I guess when you are getting your greasy ass kicked in a debate, the only thing left for you is totally off subject personal attacks...

that really doesnt surprise me

would you like me to PM you the text of my sermon today? It might do you some good!

You're sermon... don't make me laugh... you're a pathological liar. You are NOT a preacher.

And I slept in the White House last night... :laugh:

Now go cut your dick off... because we don't need anymore copies of you walking around than there already are.

[Missileman]

What the fuck is the difference? Jesus Christ you two... what a couple of absolute fucking MORONS! You two play this little, "it depends on what the meaning of IS is," game.... it's fucking STUPID! You two are fucking stupid. My God.... :talk2hand:

No mystery why people don't like to respond to either of you two idiots... playing your dumb ass little parsing games. And you're even too damn dumb to realise that people can see right through it and think you're a couple of ding bats.... yeah, be real proud of yourselves.... pppphht.

Read the fucking paragraph you ignorant asshole!

It clearly states that someone who outs themselves is subject to discharge UNLESS they demonstrate that they DO NOT have a propensity to ENGAGE in homosexual activity.

Are you so fucking stupid you lack the ability to comprehend the word UNLESS? If merely being a homosexual was grounds for discharge, there would be no need for the UNLESS. I'll bet that's way over your head though.

And hey PR...all that fucking whining about how people personally attack you and you only do it in retaliation was bullshit...you instigate it more than any other poster on this board.

[Pale Rider]

Read the fucking paragraph you ignorant asshole!

It clearly states that someone who outs themselves is subject to discharge UNLESS they demonstrate that they DO NOT have a propensity to ENGAGE in homosexual activity.

Are you so fucking stupid you lack the ability to comprehend the word UNLESS? If merely being a homosexual was grounds for discharge, there would be no need for the UNLESS. I'll bet that's way over your head though.

And hey PR...all that fucking whining about how people personally attack you and you only do it in retaliation was bullshit...you instigate it more than any other poster on this board.

Yeah blah, blah, blah... Mm.... blah fucking blah... shove it you idiot.

You've no more point worth looking at than some drunken bum laying in the gutter. You're a fucking piece of shit butt boy mfm spin off. You both couldn't tell the truth if it meant your fucking life.

Go fuck yourself.

[Missileman]

Yeah blah, blah, blah... Mm.... blah fucking blah... shove it you idiot.

You've no more point worth looking at than some drunken bum laying in the gutter. You're a fucking piece of shit butt boy mfm spin off. You both couldn't tell the truth if it meant your fucking life.

Go fuck yourself.

Typical non-argument from the board troglodyte. C'mon Puss boy! Explain why there's an UNLESS clause in that paragraph. Quit being an estrogen-packed pussy, hiding behind insults and "blah,blahs" and post a meannigful explanation of why that UNLESS should be totally disregarded.

I'll wager that you're hoping if you kick up enough fuss that the thread will get closed down to save you from further beating. You have an opportunity to disprove that though.

[Pale Rider]

Typical non-argument from the board troglodyte. C'mon Puss boy! Explain why there's an UNLESS clause in that paragraph. Quit being an estrogen-packed pussy, hiding behind insults and "blah,blahs" and post a meannigful explanation of why that UNLESS should be totally disregarded.

I'll wager that you're hoping if you kick up enough fuss that the thread will get closed down to save you from further beating. You have an opportunity to disprove that though.

I've been here with you before Mm... I know what you're doing. You want to spin, twist, contort, redefine and outright lie, all without ever admitting you're wrong. That's your M.O.. I know what the law is, and I don't need to engage in some four hundred page exercise of futility with a moron like you. I'll let others reading the thread make their own decisions whether or not homosexuality is against military rules. It's already been proven it is.

Now if you need to make yourself feel better by spinning, twisting, contorting and lying about something, you'll have to find someone else to do it with, but my guess is there won't be anyone here that will. They all know the truth, and arguing with an idiot like you that's as dense as a san fran fog just isn't worth it.

You're a loser Mm... you've lost in this thread in spades already. The only one that doesn't know it is you.

[Missileman]

I've been here with you before Mm... I know what you're doing. You want to spin, twist, contort, redefine and outright lie, all without ever admitting you're wrong. That's your M.O.. I know what the law is, and I don't need to engage in some four hundred page exercise of futility with a moron like you. I'll let others reading the thread make their own decisions whether or not homosexuality is against military rules. It's already been proven it is.

Now if you need to make yourself feel better by spinning, twisting, contorting and lying about something, you'll have to find someone else to do it with, but my guess is there won't be anyone here that will. They all know the truth, and arguing with an idiot like you that's as dense as a san fran fog just isn't worth it.

You're a loser Mm... you've lost in this thread in spades already. The only one that doesn't know it is you.

Your claim of victory is as hollow as your skull numbnuts! Just because the truth, which is written in perfectly clear English BTW, doesn't fit your your perception of reality, it doesn't make it a lie or inaccurate.

Still waiting for you to demonstrate the meaninglessness of UNLESS.

[retiredman]

You're sermon... don't make me laugh... you're a pathological liar. You are NOT a preacher.

And I slept in the White House last night... :laugh:

Now go cut your dick off... because we don't need anymore copies of you walking around than there already are.

like I said... when you are getting your ass kicked, the only thing left for you is personal attacks.

[Noir]

Personally my gripe is that by being homosexulas they have demonstrated their inability to make decisions wisely.

And what has this got to do with them being in the army?
Sure some guy may decided to have a glass of Ice tea every morning, i find Ice tea horrid, and would therefore say he has made a poor choice, but if its what he likes its what he likes. The dessission doesn't affect his ability in the army, whether its Ice tea or sexual preferance

[Pale Rider]

Your claim of victory is as hollow as your skull numbnuts! Just because the truth, which is written in perfectly clear English BTW, doesn't fit your your perception of reality, it doesn't make it a lie or inaccurate.

Still waiting for you to demonstrate the meaninglessness of UNLESS.


like I said... when you are getting your ass kicked, the only thing left for you is personal attacks.

You two faggot enablers together don't have the gray matter God gave a brick.

Neither of you have proved anything more than how fucking stupid you are. You lose, get over it.

[Pale Rider]

And what has this got to do with them being in the army?
Sure some guy may decided to have a glass of Ice tea every morning, i find Ice tea horrid, and would therefore say he has made a poor choice, but if its what he likes its what he likes. The dessission doesn't affect his ability in the army, whether its Ice tea or sexual preferance

Well here comes another pervert like matskrammer that wants to compare two men butt fucking with a cup of tea. You need to stop and take a look at how moronic of an argument that is. Do you want to continue it and be labeled an idiot here right from the start? I realize men butt fucking is hard to defend, that's why you people come up with such idiotic arguments, but you'll have to do better than comparing it to a cup of tea.

[retiredman]

You two faggot enablers together don't have the gray matter God gave a brick.

Neither of you have proved anything more than how fucking stupid you are. You lose, get over it.


I have proven that if a gay man choses to remain celibate during his enlistment, nothing in law prevents him from serving and serving admirably...

and you are too bullheaded to admit it.

[Noir]

Well here comes another pervert like matskrammer that wants to compare two men butt fucking with a cup of tea. You need to stop and take a look at how moronic of an argument that is. Do you want to continue it and be labeled an idiot here right from the start? I realize men butt fucking is hard to defend, that's why you people come up with such idiotic arguments, but you'll have to do better than comparing it to a cup of tea.

Well sorry for trying to make a very simple point, you seem to have attacked the idea of Ice tea rather than the point i was trying to illustrate, so let me ask the same question except this time without giving you Ice tea as a 'get out of jail free card'


You need to stop and take a look at how moronic of an argument that is.
OK, i think that someone should be able to be openly gay and serve there country...wow, how stupid am i?


Do you want to continue it and be labeled an idiot here right from the start?
I really do care whether you label me an idiot or not, people in glass houses...


I realize men butt fucking is hard to defend, that's why you people come up with such idiotic arguments, but you'll have to do better than comparing it to a cup of tea.

Well i think you better go look back at the topic, i am not trying to defend 'men butt fucking' that is for another debate. This debate is whether or not you should be able to be openly gay and in the army.

I find your argument rather empty to be honest, who decides 'how bad' a dessision has to be before you could join the army? I could understand if they had made choices that could effect their judgment and therefore put their men at risk...i.e if they where hooked on drugs, but how on earth would being homosexual do this?
If anything the only person who would be at risk is the brave man or woman; for being openly gay in what is an anti-gay institution.

By the way, open extending this 'bad choice' theory, what would you have gay people doing? Surly they could never be in any positions of power as they may make other 'bad choices'. Yet they seem to work and play just as well as the rest of us.

Edit- Lawl; i'm 'infamous' for taking every person for who they are regardless of sexuality, age, race ect. I'm a bad bad man :)

[Missileman]

You two faggot enablers together don't have the gray matter God gave a brick.

Neither of you have proved anything more than how fucking stupid you are. You lose, get over it.

Get back to me when you learn English...seriously, how has your illiterate ass been employed all these years? More importantly, what 2nd grader do you have chained to your keyboard?

[Pale Rider]

I have proven that if a gay man choses to remain celibate during his enlistment, nothing in law prevents him from serving and serving admirably...

and you are too bullheaded to admit it.

If a faggot lies about being a homo when he enlists, and keeps his mouth shut about it while he's serving, he remains in the military. However, if he opens his mouth and starts spouting off about how he's a flaming homo, he will be booted out in a heart beat. We all know these facts to be true.

You're the one that was playing your little word game. I think it gave you wood when your butt buddy Mm stood behind you. He must have been giving you a reach around.

[Pale Rider]

Well sorry for trying to make a very simple point, you seem to have attacked the idea of Ice tea rather than the point i was trying to illustrate, so let me ask the same question except this time without giving you Ice tea as a 'get out of jail free card'


OK, i think that someone should be able to be openly gay and serve there country...wow, how stupid am i?

Well i think you better go look back at the topic, i am not trying to defend 'men butt fucking' that is for another debate. This debate is whether or not you should be able to be openly gay and in the army.

I find your argument rather empty to be honest, who decides 'how bad' a dessision has to be before you could join the army? I could understand if they had made choices that could effect their judgment and therefore put their men at risk...i.e if they where hooked on drugs, but how on earth would being homosexual do this?
If anything the only person who would be at risk is the brave man or woman; for being openly gay in what is an anti-gay institution.

By the way, open extending this 'bad choice' theory, what would you have gay people doing? Surly they could never be in any positions of power as they may make other 'bad choices'. Yet they seem to work and play just as well as the rest of us.

Edit- Lawl; i'm 'infamous' for taking every person for who they are regardless of sexuality, age, race ect. I'm a bad bad man :)

Well obviously the military has decided it's unacceptable to be a queer and serve. You have to lie about it. End of story.

This is the problem... what do you do with a whole group of faggots that want to join the military. "IF" they were allowed, how in the hell would you get them through basic training? Answer that...

[retiredman]

Well obviously the military has decided it's unacceptable to be a queer and serve. You have to lie about it. End of story.

This is the problem... what do you do with a whole group of faggots that want to join the military. "IF" they were allowed, how in the hell would you get them through basic training? Answer that...

the military DID make that decision, and the topic of this thread is the fact that senior leadership in the military is rethinking that position.

And like I said, and you continue to ignore...if gay men chose to be celibate during their enlistment, there would be no problem...if they did not, the UCMJ could handle the infractions....if knuckledragging, mouthbreathing morons had a problem with gays in the military and made the mistake of assaulting them, the UCMJ could handle those infractions as well.

[Noir]

This is the problem... what do you do with a whole group of faggots that want to join the military. "IF" they were allowed, how in the hell would you get them through basic training? Answer that...
You see the problem seems to change every now and then, but as this seems to be the 'current' problem, i'll answer it, as i did several posts ago...



Is your only gripe that they are open? In which case you wouldn't mind showering with a gay person aslong as you didn't know they were gay, so why does knowing their sexuality create such a problem? As for where they would sleep...why not let them sleep with everyone else? Just because they're gay doesn't mean they're gonna rape every other guy in the building so why can't they sleep with everyone else of the same sexuality?

That solves the basic training 'problem', and guess what, that 'problem' doesn't exist, cus i'm sure there are plenty of people in the army that are gay...and the army doesn't mind, the army only minds if you are open about it, so again it comes down to why does it matter if you know or not?

[Pale Rider]

the military DID make that decision, and the topic of this thread is the fact that senior leadership in the military is rethinking that position.

And like I said, and you continue to ignore...if gay men chose to be celibate during their enlistment, there would be no problem...if they did not, the UCMJ could handle the infractions....if knuckledragging, mouthbreathing morons had a problem with gays in the military and made the mistake of assaulting them, the UCMJ could handle those infractions as well.

You insult heterosexuals, as usual, I'm sure they threaten you as the sissie you are as well, but go on to completely ignore the core question in my post.

Go back, read it, and answer it. You can't, is what I suspect.

[Pale Rider]

You see the problem seems to change every now and then, but as this seems to be the 'current' problem, i'll answer it, as i did several posts ago...

That solves the basic training 'problem', and guess what, that 'problem' doesn't exist, cus i'm sure there are plenty of people in the army that are gay...and the army doesn't mind, the army only minds if you are open about it, so again it comes down to why does it matter if you know or not?

You know... the board has enough tap dancers already, so if that's all you're going to do... skip it. Otherwise, answer my question in a concrete fashion with something tangible, instead of, "oh, nothings wrong, it doesn't matter, aaahh, duh..."

[retiredman]

You insult heterosexuals, as usual, I'm sure they threaten you as the sissie you are as well, but go on to completely ignore the core question in my post.

Go back, read it, and answer it. You can't, is what I suspect.

I already answered it. period. learn how to fucking read, moron.

[Hagbard Celine]

I'm curious, does the general want the gay ban lifted so that he can wear his short shorts around the base without fear of retribution?

[Pale Rider]

I'm curious, does the general want the gay ban lifted so that he can wear his short shorts around the base without fear of retribution?

I don't know... he lives with you doesn't he.... ask him.

[Pale Rider]

I already answered it. period. learn how to fucking read, moron.

No... you didn't... son. You can't. Come back when you can.