Students with guns

[gabosaurus]

An incident from today reminds me why I believe it is a good idea to allow weapons on campus (except by trained security).
There was a shooting on a college campus in Houston today. Only it wasn't a crazed gunman. It was two students who got into an argument. They both took out guns and shot it out. Both were wounded, along with a couple of bystanders.

Do you really want shootouts on school campuses? Even those trained to use weapons don't know what to do in a crowded hallway or room. Or how to keep their composure in a panic.

We need to keep weapons in the hands of trained security.

[ConHog]

An incident from today reminds me why I believe it is a good idea to allow weapons on campus (except by trained security).
There was a shooting on a college campus in Houston today. Only it wasn't a crazed gunman. It was two students who got into an argument. They both took out guns and shot it out. Both were wounded, along with a couple of bystanders.

Do you really want shootouts on school campuses? Even those trained to use weapons don't know what to do in a crowded hallway or room. Or how to keep their composure in a panic.

We need to keep weapons in the hands of trained security.

Eh, honestly I think that in the case of a college , we're talking about adults, the college should be able to decide, if a state ran college, let state law decide.

If those two jack offs wouldn't have had guns no they probably wouldn't have escalated but at some point you have to let adults be adults. Even if they do often act like children.

[gabosaurus]

Con, would you feel comfortable sending your kid to a college campus where everyone was armed?

[mundame]

An incident from today reminds me why I believe it is a good idea to allow weapons on campus (except by trained security).
There was a shooting on a college campus in Houston today. Only it wasn't a crazed gunman. It was two students who got into an argument. They both took out guns and shot it out. Both were wounded, along with a couple of bystanders.

Do you really want shootouts on school campuses? Even those trained to use weapons don't know what to do in a crowded hallway or room. Or how to keep their composure in a panic.

We need to keep weapons in the hands of trained security.


Has anyone read Robert Heinlein's "Beyond These Horizons"? Light novella, except for his fascinating view of an armed country. Every man was armed who wanted to be; those who did not for reasons of health or age wore special badges and were considered invulnerable, as were women. Men who did not have a good reason but didn't arm were considered cowards, the lowest of the low, and weren't safe. It was a very, very, very polite society, that's the interesting thing. And highly ritualized, much as in the real past when men fought duels.

This is no real change for Houston, if you think about it: Texas and the West long had everyone-armed rules. They're just doing it again, that's all.

[mundame]

Of course they should both be charged, or at least the one who attacked should be charged.

That stopped dueling, when the law went after them for it.

I don't care. As long as they are not rampage shooting mass numbers of students, and as long as the attacker is charged with a crime and tried and imprisoned, what the hey.

[ConHog]

Con, would you feel comfortable sending your kid to a college campus where everyone was armed?

My kid? Yes. But he's a highly skilled weapon like his father.

:coffee:

But the reality of the situation is that I personally will not have to decide that, both my boys attend the University of Arkansas and they are a gun free zone.

[CSM]

Has anyone read Robert Heinlein's "Beyond These Horizons"? Light novella, except for his fascinating view of an armed country. Every man was armed who wanted to be; those who did not for reasons of health or age wore special badges and were considered invulnerable, as were women. Men who did not have a good reason but didn't arm were considered cowards, the lowest of the low, and weren't safe. It was a very, very, very polite society, that's the interesting thing. And highly ritualized, much as in the real past when men fought duels.

This is no real change for Houston, if you think about it: Texas and the West long had everyone-armed rules. They're just doing it again, that's all.

I have indeed read that particular work of fiction. It is an intiguing theory for sure. I am no so certain that Texas and the West ever had requirements that everyone be armed. I do not see how exaggerated rhetoric such as this is helpful in reaching a viable solution, however.

[hjmick]

An incident from today reminds me why I believe it is not a good idea to allow cops weapons...

In Las Vegas a 52-year-old lieutenant with more than 20 years on the force killed his wife and son, called 911 to confess, then set his house on fire and committed suicide.

Do you really want weapons in the hands of trained security?

[ConHog]

I have indeed read that particular work of fiction. It is an intiguing theory for sure. I am no so certain that Texas and the West ever had requirements that everyone be armed. I do not see how exaggerated rhetoric such as this is helpful in reaching a viable solution, however.

That book is complete bunk.

In point of fact in almost every western town it was ILLEGAL to carry a firearm in town. The great myth of the violent wild west is greatly exaggerated.

[mundame]

I have indeed read that particular work of fiction. It is an intiguing theory for sure. I am no so certain that Texas and the West ever had requirements that everyone be armed. I do not see how exaggerated rhetoric such as this is helpful in reaching a viable solution, however.


No, you are right. No such rules in the Old West, but fiction/Hollywood/history (not to mention that graveyard in Tombstone) does show that shoot-outs were common and many did indeed go armed, openly armed with tied-down pistol holsters. That's what this Houston event was, a shoot-out. And as usual in the old West, too, passersby were injured.

I love the book "Beyond These Horizons" -- I'm up for an all-armed society. Boy, that would put some scare into criminals. Only I think women would have to go armed, too. I think women were ALLOWED to, IIRC, but usually didn't.

[CSM]

That book is complete bunk.

In point of fact in almost every western town it was ILLEGAL to carry a firearm in town. The great myth of the violent wild west is greatly exaggerated.

The story is FICTION and I suppose as such could be considered "bunk". It did not however, state that Texas or the Old West required "everyone" to be armed.

[CSM]

No, you are right. No such rules in the Old West, but fiction/Hollywood/history (not to mention that graveyard in Tombstone) does show that shoot-outs were common and many did indeed go armed, openly armed with tied-down pistol holsters. That's what this Houston event was, a shoot-out. And as usual in the old West, too, passersby were injured.

I love the book "Beyond These Horizons" -- I'm up for an all-armed society. Boy, that would put some scare into criminals. Only I think women would have to go armed, too. I think women were ALLOWED to, IIRC, but usually didn't.

LOL! Shootouts were common between LAW ENFORCEMENT and criminals and even between criminal elements. Not so common between law abiding citizens.

I have speculated that if everyone were armed, there would be a short period of extreme violence (if not chaos) after which society would be a LOT more civil!

[hjmick]

An incident from today reminds me why I believe it is a good idea to allow weapons on campus (except by trained security).
There was a shooting on a college campus in Houston today. Only it wasn't a crazed gunman. It was two students who got into an argument. They both took out guns and shot it out. Both were wounded, along with a couple of bystanders.

Do you really want shootouts on school campuses? Even those trained to use weapons don't know what to do in a crowded hallway or room. Or how to keep their composure in a panic.

We need to keep weapons in the hands of trained security.

The shooting was the result of two dipshits fighting, the fight escalated, they shot at each other. It was a community college. Any bets as to whether or not there were any gang affiliations? This incident is really no different than if the two jackholes had been shooting at each other on a street in the Greenspoint area.

[mundame]

I checked the news and the police are certainly treating it like a rampage shooting. They have the SWAT team out in force and are searching for a second gunman.

I think I'm going to invoke my three-day rule -- we can't know what's going on for two to three days. Even the police don't usually know right away, and then they hide so much from the media and the public.

At the moment, three taken to the hospital. Impossible to know what really happened there.

I suppose this kind of shooting is going to happen every week now, maybe escalate to twice a week, then every day.

[mundame]

I have speculated that if everyone were armed, there would be a short period of extreme violence (if not chaos) after which society would be a LOT more civil!

Oh, yeah. I agree. The stupids and hotheads and criminals would go down pretty quick, and there would be a lot of revenge killings during the confusion, as in wartime, and eventually some ritualistic order would develop.

[aboutime]

Oh, yeah. I agree. The stupids and hotheads and criminals would go down pretty quick, and there would be a lot of revenge killings during the confusion, as in wartime, and eventually some ritualistic order would develop.


mundame. If what you suggested above was true. Since there are more than 100 Million guns registered in the USA today. Please explain why those stupids and hotheads and criminals haven't already gone down pretty quickly.

And that 100 Million number is only REGISTERED weapons.

So. Please explain your attempt at Liberal Logic?

[hjmick]

I checked the news and the police are certainly treating it like a rampage shooting. They have the SWAT team out in force and are searching for a second gunman.

I think I'm going to invoke my three-day rule -- we can't know what's going on for two to three days. Even the police don't usually know right away, and then they hide so much from the media and the public.

At the moment, three taken to the hospital. Impossible to know what really happened there.

I suppose this kind of shooting is going to happen every week now, maybe escalate to twice a week, then every day.

No, they're not.

Read the story:

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Texas-official-3-wounded-in-college-shooting-4214185.php

[avatar4321]

Interesting thread. Especially considering I heard an account the other day about a bunch of kids who saved their teacher's life because they were all armed and the gunman decided to not kill her. Of course, this happened around the time of the Founding when we didn't have gun laws and the people actually wanted to be able to protect themselves.