MrColionNoir: How to Stop MASS SHOOTINGS

[jimnyc]

I will let the video speak for itself...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hR3t7j2tUec" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ConHog]

I will let the video speak for itself...

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hR3t7j2tUec" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

What an Uncle Tom.


Seriously though, he's almost right.

Surely though we can figure out WHY these kids feel the way they do and save their lives to. I mean for God sakes we're talking about putting a man on Mars but we can't figure out a way to keep kids from feeling that this kind of shit is their best option in life?

[Robert A Whit]

Ask yourself what is the oldest mass killer?

Seems to me that above a particular age, this shit stops.

Does anybody have figures on the oldest ever mass killer?

I get sick and tired of wanting to buy a gun only to be told I must again and again over and over submit to the god darned FBI checks. If they checked me half a dozen times, isn't that enouogh?

By the way, if you get your home appraised, that appraiser passed an FBI background check. I know. I once appraised homes and made a hell of a lot of money doing it.

Your real estate agent? In CA, I know for a fact that we also got such checks by the state law enforcement agencies.

Real Estate broker is the only job I have had where it took two unrelated other brokers to agree to vouch for you or the state would not give you the brokers license. I have held my license since 1971.

[ConHog]

Ask yourself what is the oldest mass killer?

Seems to me that above a particular age, this shit stops.

Does anybody have figures on the oldest ever mass killer?

I get sick and tired of wanting to buy a gun only to be told I must again and again over and over submit to the god darned FBI checks. If they checked me half a dozen times, isn't that enouogh?

By the way, if you get your home appraised, that appraiser passed an FBI background check. I know. I once appraised homes and made a hell of a lot of money doing it.

Your real estate agent? In CA, I know for a fact that we also got such checks by the state law enforcement agencies.

Real Estate broker is the only job I have had where it took two unrelated other brokers to agree to vouch for you or the state would not give you the brokers license. I have held my license since 1971.

Here in Arkansas we require even our school lunch ladies to undergo a yearly background check.


Seems like you're advocating just trusting people. No thanks

[Marcus Aurelius]

I will let the video speak for itself...

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hR3t7j2tUec" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[gabosaurus]

I don't see why anyone would object to a background check. What do you have to hide?
There is nothing wrong with a background check and a 48-hour waiting period. Think of how many shootings are impulsive.
You can still buy your weapon.

[ConHog]

I don't see why anyone would object to a background check. What do you have to hide?
There is nothing wrong with a background check and a 48-hour waiting period. Think of how many shootings are impulsive.
You can still buy your weapon.

I'm not sure how I feel about a 48 hour waiting period. I would need conclusive proof that people are rushing down to their local gun store to buy a weapon to commit a crime. So far I have not seen such proof.

[mundame]

I'm not sure how I feel about a 48 hour waiting period. I would need conclusive proof that people are rushing down to their local gun store to buy a weapon to commit a crime. So far I have not seen such proof.


I know for sure one guy did --- Cincinnati about 1975. Medical doctor, a young psychiatrist who was just as crazy as a hoot owl. He married a beautiful social worker in that department and at the wedding he was so drunk he couldn't walk down the aisle --- his parents got on either side of him and carried him.

I'm not even sure that was legal.....they of course should have cancelled it right there on site.

He disappeared for some months after awhile, with all their savings, and showed up again and said he wanted to "try again," and was allowed back into the psychiatry department (!!!!!!!!!) and the marriage. Big mistake No. 2 and 3.

He got mad at something, rushed out and bought a gun, took it home, and shot her dead as she walked in the door. He got three years. Only three years. A lot of people were pretty mad about that.

[mundame]

Ask yourself what is the oldest mass killer?


Seems to me that above a particular age, this shit stops.

Does anybody have figures on the oldest ever mass killer?



I thought that was an interesting question, so I looked it up. Unfortunately, there is still some rampage shooting from older men:

[Wikipedia] The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting was a shooting at that nation's memorial to The Holocaust (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/United_States_Holocaust_Memorial_Museum) in Washington, D.C. (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Washington,_D.C.) on June 10, 2009, at 12:50 p.m.[5] (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/12-hour_clock) Security guard Stephen Tyrone Johns, 39, was shot, and later died from his injuries. Suspect James Wenneker von Brunn (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/James_Wenneker_von_Brunn), 88, was charged in federal court on June 11, 2009, with first-degree murder (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/First-degree_murder) and firearms violations.[6] (http://www.debatepolicy.com/l%20cite_note-CriminalCharges-6)

http://njjewishnews.com/nu/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/holocaust-shooting_47436909.jpg

So shooter van Brunn tried to shoot up the Holocaust Museum in the capitol in 2009 and he was 88. He only killed one person but that was simply due to good defense; he intended to kill whomever was in there, apparently.



This guy below was 62, the felon who shot four New York state firefighters and caused seven houses to burn down.

(CNN) -- A sniper who ambushed volunteer firefighters (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-firefighters-shooting/index.html) in upstate New York on Monday, killing two and seriously wounding two others, left a note saying he hoped to burn down his neighborhood and kill as many people as possible, police said Tuesday.
A charred body, believed to be his sister's, was found in the burned house she shared with him Tuesday, police said.
William Spengler, 62, used a Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle, the same kind of weapon used in the assault on Sandy Hook Elementary School, Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.
"He was equipped to go to war," Chief Pickering said.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/121224101116-firefighter-ambush-suspect-story-top.jpg


These are the oldest rampage shooters I can think of, but others may think of some others. I know workplace shooters are often at least middle-aged men who get angry, sometimes when they are fired.

[Kathianne]

...

Seriously though, he's almost right.

Surely though we can figure out WHY these kids feel the way they do and save their lives to. I mean for God sakes we're talking about putting a man on Mars but we can't figure out a way to keep kids from feeling that this kind of shit is their best option in life?

These 'kids' are psychopaths or in need of psychiatric hospitals which are no longer available for most, and nearly impossible to commit if the 'patient is unwilling.' Taking them out when in killer mode, smart.

The school shooter, not worth mentioning anymore at Sandy Hook, was in schools until it appears they were trying to force him into 'self-contained bd,' then he was homeschooled. Little schools can do with these types of problems, the mother tried, failed.

[ConHog]

These 'kids' are psychopaths or in need of psychiatric hospitals which are no longer available for most, and nearly impossible to commit if the 'patient is unwilling.' Taking them out when in killer mode, smart.

The school shooter, not worth mentioning anymore at Sandy Hook, was in schools until it appears they were trying to force him into 'self-contained bd,' then he was homeschooled. Little schools can do with these types of problems, the mother tried, failed.

I don't know how I feel about that to be honest. Are these kids just broken with no hope of repair? They are just broken and one day will snap, or did some stimuli cause them to be that way, something that we can remove from the equation?

Now mind you, that isn't saying that when we identify these kids they shouldn't be locked up, they should be. But this isn't the middle ages where we just lock crazy people up and forget they exist. if there is a reason for this , I want to know what it is, and if we can prevent it.

Here is another point to consider, IF these kids have mental diseases is the correct response to treat them like monsters? Can they help what they have done? It's like when my little girl spanks the dog for not listening to her, I tell her "hon spanking her and yelling at her isn't the way you get her to listen, she's just a dog" now as a dog , sometimes she has to be locked up in her own cage, just as these guys should be, but if they truly have a mental deficiency they don't deserve our scorn.

[Kathianne]

I don't know how I feel about that to be honest. Are these kids just broken with no hope of repair? They are just broken and one day will snap, or did some stimuli cause them to be that way, something that we can remove from the equation?

Now mind you, that isn't saying that when we identify these kids they shouldn't be locked up, they should be. But this isn't the middle ages where we just lock crazy people up and forget they exist. if there is a reason for this , I want to know what it is, and if we can prevent it.

Here is another point to consider, IF these kids have mental diseases is the correct response to treat them like monsters? Can they help what they have done? It's like when my little girl spanks the dog for not listening to her, I tell her "hon spanking her and yelling at her isn't the way you get her to listen, she's just a dog" now as a dog , sometimes she has to be locked up in her own cage, just as these guys should be, but if they truly have a mental deficiency they don't deserve our scorn.

If identified should be locked up, one way or another. If not, at time of 'acting out' take down by the folks at the scene. Gets back to the 10% of your staff that 'was willing' to carry and my response to that.

[ConHog]

If identified should be locked up, one way or another. If not, at time of 'acting out' take down by the folks at the scene. Gets back to the 10% of your staff that 'was willing' to carry and my response to that.

We don't disagree there or not. Mental illness or not if someone with a gun can end the situation, good.

We do disagree on teachers carrying though, well sort of. I'd be okay with if those teachers were properly trained and deputized. I would also want each of them equipped with instant communications with the local police.

Actually, I feel this is a more appropriate solution for where you are, then where I am. At our schools, we don't near the students you undoubtedly have and thus I feel one police person full time on each campus (2 at the high school) and 2 more roving patrols is more than enough guns in contrast to the odds of something happening.

And THAT is why I think it should be completely left up to each state. I have no problem if Texas wants to arm every teacher with 2 pistols, an Uzi, a shotgun and park a tank out front. I don't live there.

Why should they care what Arkansas does.

[Kathianne]

We don't disagree there or not. Mental illness or not if someone with a gun can end the situation, good.

We do disagree on teachers carrying though, well sort of. I'd be okay with if those teachers were properly trained and deputized. I would also want each of them equipped with instant communications with the local police.

Actually, I feel this is a more appropriate solution for where you are, then where I am. At our schools, we don't near the students you undoubtedly have and thus I feel one police person full time on each campus (2 at the high school) and 2 more roving patrols is more than enough guns in contrast to the odds of something happening.

And THAT is why I think it should be completely left up to each state. I have no problem if Texas wants to arm every teacher with 2 pistols, an Uzi, a shotgun and park a tank out front. I don't live there.

Why should they care what Arkansas does.

At no time would any staff person be allowed a gun, without administrative approval and proof of competency of said weapon. Some might be competent, but not judged by administration to be approved to carry for one reason or another-no reason should be necessary to deny. Thus an administration that chooses to forbid, would be able to. The clincher though, no published decisions. Thus a possible perp would NOT be able to know which schools are armed by more than a resource officer or two and which are not. Totally off the record, other than for district.

10% or more of staff actually seems too high to me, unless very tiny school. I don't know how many entrances your high school has, assume during school hours, one or two? At the same time, like Sandy Hook, a locked door doesn't mean entrance is impossible. He was denied entrance, made his own.

[ConHog]

At no time would any staff person be allowed a gun, without administrative approval and proof of competency of said weapon. Some might be competent, but not judged by administration to be approved to carry for one reason or another-no reason should be necessary to deny. Thus an administration that chooses to forbid, would be able to. The clincher though, no published decisions. Thus a possible perp would NOT be able to know which schools are armed by more than a resource officer or two and which are not. Totally off the record, other than for district.

10% or more of staff actually seems too high to me, unless very tiny school. I don't know how many entrances your high school has, assume during school hours, one or two? At the same time, like Sandy Hook, a locked door doesn't mean entrance is impossible. He was denied entrance, made his own.

I agree with you about unpublished records. But I'm not sure if that is possible. Especially in a state like Arkansas where the state Freedom of Information Act makes nearly any state information easily accessible. Hell one person on another forum found out which National Guard Unit I was assigned to through a FOIA request. That's scary.

Right now our elementary and our middle schools have one entrance during school hours because they are completely fenced in, we are working on doing the same with our high school.

I suppose that actually there is more than one entrance but a person would have to scale a 12' chain link fence to access those entrances and even then the doors are all locked during hours.

Of course a really determined person could just stand outside the fence and shoot students, but NOTHING is fullproof.

[Kathianne]

I agree with you about unpublished records. But I'm not sure if that is possible. Especially in a state like Arkansas where the state Freedom of Information Act makes nearly any state information easily accessible. Hell one person on another forum found out which National Guard Unit I was assigned to through a FOIA request. That's scary.

Right now our elementary and our middle schools have one entrance during school hours because they are completely fenced in, we are working on doing the same with our high school.

I suppose that actually there is more than one entrance but a person would have to scale a 12' chain link fence to access those entrances and even then the doors are all locked during hours.

Of course a really determined person could just stand outside the fence and shoot students, but NOTHING is fullproof.

If the government feels they can mess with 2nd amendment, then they can mess with keeping certain information private. Double edged, that sword.

[ConHog]

If the government feels they can mess with 2nd amendment, then they can mess with keeping certain information private. Double edged, that sword.

I don't know how double edged it is. 2nd Amendment > FOIA

or at least I would think so.

but yes of course the FOIA could be rewritten

[Kathianne]

I don't know how double edged it is. 2nd Amendment > FOIA

or at least I would think so.

but yes of course the FOIA could be rewritten

Or not. Just like the 2nd amendment.

[ConHog]

Or not. Just like the 2nd amendment.

Personally I think they both should be rewritten.

[Kathianne]

Personally I think they both should be rewritten.

Of course.

[ConHog]

Of course.

excellent retort, way to continue the conversation.

[Kathianne]

excellent retort, way to continue the conversation.

You added something of substance? Such as your ideas of rewrites? No.

[ConHog]

You added something of substance? Such as your ideas of rewrites? No.

that would be more appropriate for the cotus forum. I'll do just that, just for you.