Helping son with homework

[jimnyc]

How do you help your child with homework if you don't understand the homework? He's doing algebra homework with division, coefficients and other crap. I'm sure I did good with this in HS myself, but can't barely remember now. I wanted him to show me in the text book where he is learning what his homework is, which is just a sheet of problems, but he says his teacher very rarely teaches out of the text book. He says she teaches on the board and they need to take notes and such.

I have no problem kind of teaching myself over again, so that I can help him, but I can't seem to find a way to do so. He sees his teacher after school every Tuesday for extra help, but that doesn't help me on days like today.

It drives me bananas when I can't help my own son with his homework problems.

[Kathianne]

How do you help your child with homework if you don't understand the homework? He's doing algebra homework with division, coefficients and other crap. I'm sure I did good with this in HS myself, but can't barely remember now. I wanted him to show me in the text book where he is learning what his homework is, which is just a sheet of problems, but he says his teacher very rarely teaches out of the text book. He says she teaches on the board and they need to take notes and such.

I have no problem kind of teaching myself over again, so that I can help him, but I can't seem to find a way to do so. He sees his teacher after school every Tuesday for extra help, but that doesn't help me on days like today.

It drives me bananas when I can't help my own son with his homework problems.

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra

You'll find it and remember. ;)

[gabosaurus]

Find a smart kid to tutor your kid. It helps both of them.
I have my daughter tutored in math by a very smart high school kid who needs money for college.
And don't feel bad. I was a math minor in college and I have trouble remembering a lot of that stuff. :cool:

[jimnyc]

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra

You'll find it and remember. ;)

Bookmarked!!

Is this more for me, him, or both?

I have him doing a 45 minute refresher with math every Tuesday after school, then the same for Chinese on Thursdays. My Aunt, who lives just a few miles away, was a HS teacher and a special ed teacher for nearly 30yrs. I'm going to see if I can get him some extra tutoring from her too.

This is a kid who should be getting straight A's. But he doesn't pay much attention, has horrible organizational skills, would rather be playing games and breezes through things just to get done instead of doing things and learning. I want to teach him many better ways, but I feel so lost at times, like I need to go back to school on some things just so that I can help him!

[jimnyc]

Find a smart kid to tutor your kid. It helps both of them.
I have my daughter tutored in math by a very smart high school kid who needs money for college.
And don't feel bad. I was a math minor in college and I have trouble remembering a lot of that stuff. :cool:

Honestly, I just took you off of my ignore list. I do know you are into the school thing and kids learning the proper way. I'll address more later....

[Kathianne]

Bookmarked!!

Is this more for me, him, or both?

I have him doing a 45 minute refresher with math every Tuesday after school, then the same for Chinese on Thursdays. My Aunt, who lives just a few miles away, was a HS teacher and a special ed teacher for nearly 30yrs. I'm going to see if I can get him some extra tutoring from her too.

This is a kid who should be getting straight A's. But he doesn't pay much attention, has horrible organizational skills, would rather be playing games and breezes through things just to get done instead of doing things and learning. I want to teach him many better ways, but I feel so lost at times, like I need to go back to school on some things just so that I can help him!

That Khan link may help him more. FYI, most good math teachers have basically tossed aside the texts, they are full of fuzzy math. That's been going on for nearly 10-15 years now. If you see his text, take a look. Horrible in that there are few examples and often do not illustrate what is supposed to be the 'lesson.'

[jimnyc]

That Khan link may help him more. FYI, most good math teachers have basically tossed aside the texts, they are full of fuzzy math. That's been going on for nearly 10-15 years now. If you see his text, take a look. Horrible in that there are few examples and often do not illustrate what is supposed to be the 'lesson.'

I don't mind much so long as the kid learns - but what happens when a parent wants to intervene? I'm sure if I studied a bit I could help him out more, but I'm afraid of showing him in a different manner than he is learning.

[Kathianne]

I don't mind much so long as the kid learns - but what happens when a parent wants to intervene? I'm sure if I studied a bit I could help him out more, but I'm afraid of showing him in a different manner than he is learning.

It's problematic alright, starts in first grade.

Khan is great for MS or HS math in particular. Find the right content under 'algebra' that's the link I sent you. Then watch the short lecture/board work. Try problems, when mastered, go onto the next lesson. With what you described as the problem, might take a few 'lessons' to get where he is at, but that's all good review.

I was horrible at math, I've learned a lot from doing Khan. The 'boy' might like this for working on his own, never know! LOL! Good review for anyone.

[Thunderknuckles]

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra

You'll find it and remember. ;)
Thanks for that link Kat!
I'm pretty good with math but I like to refresh my memory as it helps me devise techniques for helping my son with his math. He's only 8 right now but I should be able to help him all the way through Calculus. After that, he's on his own :p

[jimnyc]

It's problematic alright, starts in first grade.

Khan is great for MS or HS math in particular. Find the right content under 'algebra' that's the link I sent you. Then watch the short lecture/board work. Try problems, when mastered, go onto the next lesson. With what you described as the problem, might take a few 'lessons' to get where he is at, but that's all good review.

I was horrible at math, I've learned a lot from doing Khan. The 'boy' might like this for working on his own, never know! LOL! Good review for anyone.

I already quickly sat with Jordan and showed him the site. I told him going forward that when he is working on something, I'd like to know the subject description, this way either one of use can use that site for a refresher of sorts.

[Kathianne]

I already quickly sat with Jordan and showed him the site. I told him going forward that when he is working on something, I'd like to know the subject description, this way either one of use can use that site for a refresher of sorts.

I wish this site had been around when my kids were in school. You could 'watch' and do problems together, race to see who can get the furthest, fastest!

Whatever novels my kids were reading, from the time they started school, I'd get a copy at the bookstore or library. We'd read together or sometimes separately, but question and comment on what we were reading. For years now, they call me and tell me what they are reading, asking me if I want to borrow. LOL!

[jimnyc]

I wish this site had been around when my kids were in school. You could 'watch' and do problems together, race to see who can get the furthest, fastest!

Whatever novels my kids were reading, from the time they started school, I'd get a copy at the bookstore or library. We'd read together or sometimes separately, but question and comment on what we were reading. For years now, they call me and tell me what they are reading, asking me if I want to borrow. LOL!

The ironic thing is, back in JHS and HS, I probably was quickest at completing my homework and in class quizzes and such. I just had a knack for numbers. But I must be getting old. Now I look at some of the problems and it looks like Greek to me and I find myself scratching my head. For example, here was question number 1...

5x + 7 = 4

Now in my head I can see that in order for 7 to be added to something to be 4, that something needs to be negative. Then I just plug in numbers to x until it adds up. As it is, 5 x -.06 would equal -3. -3 + 7 equals 4. But HOW to get there - he needs to LEARN and UNDERSTAND. Then he starts the line again, places a -7 under the 7 above and a -7 underneath the 4 and adds/subtracts them. I'm like WTF? I had no idea what he was doing, but he was doing it right and got the right answer.

And yes, what I just wrote probably made NO sense at all, and now you know what my brain feels like right now!! :laugh:

[Thunderknuckles]

Jim here are the steps:
Subtract 7 from each side of the equation and you have the following:

5x = -3

Next divide both sides by 5 and you arrive at x = -0.6

[jimnyc]

Jim here are the steps:
Subtract 7 from each side of the equation and you have the following:

5x = -3

Next divide both sides by 5 and you arrive at x = -0.6

If the original was 5x + 7 = 4

How did you know to subtract 7, instead of subtracting the 4? And then how did you know to divide both by 5, and not the -3? I know you're right, but want to understand how to get there.

[Robert A Whit]

How do you help your child with homework if you don't understand the homework? He's doing algebra homework with division, coefficients and other crap. I'm sure I did good with this in HS myself, but can't barely remember now. I wanted him to show me in the text book where he is learning what his homework is, which is just a sheet of problems, but he says his teacher very rarely teaches out of the text book. He says she teaches on the board and they need to take notes and such.

I have no problem kind of teaching myself over again, so that I can help him, but I can't seem to find a way to do so. He sees his teacher after school every Tuesday for extra help, but that doesn't help me on days like today.

It drives me bananas when I can't help my own son with his homework problems.

Jim, at your public library, I hope, you can get video productions that can be used to teach and brush up on your algebra. I told you also about Khan academy and that you and your son should get close to that site and use it. It will come up easily using the search engine.

Algebra is a rather simple tool. If a person sees it as a mystery, no doubt they will struggle.

If they see it for the help it gives them, they will welcome Algebra with warm arms.

Khan can help your son. I have no doubt.

[Thunderknuckles]

The object is to simplify the problem by isolating "X" to one side of the problem and everything else to the other side of the problem.
Remember that you can add/subtract/multiply/divide anything to a problem as long as you do it to BOTH SIDES of the equation.

Once again we have: 5x + 7 = 4

The first step is to get the 7 on the other side of the equation. To do that I have to subtract 7 from the left to make it effectively zero but alo must do the exact same thing to the other side. Literally the new problem looks like this:
5x + 0 = 4 - 7
Which simplifies to 5x = -3

Now to get the 5 on the other side of the problem, I have to divide by 5 on the left and the right. The new problem literally looks like this:
(5x/5) = (-3/5)
The fives cancel each other out on the left side and we are left with x = -3/5

Now, we could have started by manipulating the the 4 or 5x first however both ways are more involved than the one I showed.

[Robert A Whit]

If the original was 5x + 7 = 4

How did you know to subtract 7, instead of subtracting the 4? And then how did you know to divide both by 5, and not the -3? I know you're right, but want to understand how to get there.

jim

He is trying to tell you to balance the equation.

If you recall from your algebra, that to the left of the = sign must agree with the right side past the = sign.

What you see on the left might be lumped into say A. A has to equal A. A = A.

He removed the 7 from both sides. You have to do to the left what you do to the right. He took away 7 from 4 on the right leaving the result as negative 3. All it amounts to is doing to one side something but also doing the same thing to the other side. Side of the equal sign.

When he divided one side by 5, he had to also do it to the other side.

[Kathianne]

Yep, transposition. I've got quadratic formula down now too! LOL! My HS teacher would be shocked. Go Khan! I struggled with math from 4th grade on. Probably know more now thanks to subbing and Khan, then ever before.

[Robert A Whit]

Well, clearly I won't be blamed for bringing up the Khan Academy. Must be because of the good it does or sumpin. (scratching my head)

I told Jim about this when he asked about homework before. And before that, I went round and round over the Khan academy. At least it got noticed.

[Kathianne]

Well, clearly I won't be blamed for bringing up the Khan Academy. Must be because of the good it does or sumpin. (scratching my head)

I told Jim about this when he asked about homework before. And before that, I went round and round over the Khan academy. At least it got noticed.

The fact that you seem incapable of reading what others actually post, is not our problem. Do you realize how condescending you sounded to Jim above? Thunder did a great job of posting, then explaining, but you just had to jump in. :rolleyes:

[tailfins]

Bookmarked!!

Is this more for me, him, or both?

I have him doing a 45 minute refresher with math every Tuesday after school, then the same for Chinese on Thursdays. My Aunt, who lives just a few miles away, was a HS teacher and a special ed teacher for nearly 30yrs. I'm going to see if I can get him some extra tutoring from her too.

This is a kid who should be getting straight A's. But he doesn't pay much attention, has horrible organizational skills, would rather be playing games and breezes through things just to get done instead of doing things and learning. I want to teach him many better ways, but I feel so lost at times, like I need to go back to school on some things just so that I can help him!

That will help him write his resume necessary for the only available jobs in a few years.

[jimnyc]

The object is to simplify the problem by isolating "X" to one side of the problem and everything else to the other side of the problem.
Remember that you can add/subtract/multiply/divide anything to a problem as long as you do it to BOTH SIDES of the equation.

Once again we have: 5x + 7 = 4

The first step is to get the 7 on the other side of the equation. To do that I have to subtract 7 from the left to make it effectively zero but alo must do the exact same thing to the other side. Literally the new problem looks like this:
5x + 0 = 4 - 7
Which simplifies to 5x = -3

Now to get the 5 on the other side of the problem, I have to divide by 5 on the left and the right. The new problem literally looks like this:
(5x/5) = (-3/5)
The fives cancel each other out on the left side and we are left with x = -3/5

Now, we could have started by manipulating the the 4 or 5x first however both ways are more involved than the one I showed.

Excellent explanation, thank you! Of course he'll be doing something different tomorrow, but I might as well start learning the basics again. Even though it's been about 30+ years since I was at my sons level, I would have liked to think I had retained at least the basics.

[jimnyc]

That will help him write his resume necessary for the only available jobs in a few years.

It was definitely a shocker when he chose that. I'm not sure if it was an impulse choice based on appearance or if he truly wants to learn. He struggles with it a little, but he is learning. He speaks a hell of a lot more Chinese than I do, which is limited to the take-out menu. :)

I just hope he starts to excel, as once chosen, apparently they must stay with it for 2 years. He's not even halfway through the 1st year.

[Robert A Whit]

The fact that you seem incapable of reading what others actually post, is not our problem. Do you realize how condescending you sounded to Jim above? Thunder did a great job of posting, then explaining, but you just had to jump in. :rolleyes:

So many untrue comments. No, the fact that I went through a full discussion and defense of Khan Academy weeks back may not be clear to you, but I sure recall it. No, I was not one bit condescending to Jim. Jim is not like you are. Jim is not petty to me. Jim does not respond the way you do. Believe it or not, i had not read Thunders posts till I had done some of the math other than one blippet over the terms of the equation as asked by Jim.

To congratulate Thunder, he did a wonderful job explaiing it.Though I read his full explanation AFTER I had posted, given I did not start at the beginning, I sort of wondered only then why the question was asked again of the guy. I have no problems with Algebra and perhaps to me it was very clear but not to Jim. But Jim is smart. He will get it.

Didn't you also have to jump in?

[Kathianne]

So many untrue comments. No, the fact that I went through a full discussion and defense of Khan Academy weeks back may not be clear to you, but I sure recall it. No, I was not one bit condescending to Jim. Jim is not like you are. Jim is not petty to me. Jim does not respond the way you do. Believe it or not, i had not read Thunders posts till I had done some of the math other than one blippet over the terms of the equation as asked by Jim.

To congratulate Thunder, he did a wonderful job explaiing it.Though I read his full explanation AFTER I had posted, given I did not start at the beginning, I sort of wondered only then why the question was asked again of the guy. I have no problems with Algebra and perhaps to me it was very clear but not to Jim. But Jim is smart. He will get it.

Didn't you also have to jump in?

Not untrue, not at all:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37888-Be-better-educated-lay-off-teachers&highlight=khan+academy

Now your join date? Within the year, no?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?33684-More-Higher-Ed-Outlets-Should-Follow-MIT&p=510924#post510924

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?32766-A-Real-Change-Coming&highlight=working+math

[Trigg]

https://www.khanacademy.org/

This is a great web sight for math and a variety of other things

[SassyLady]

Bookmarked!!

Is this more for me, him, or both?

I have him doing a 45 minute refresher with math every Tuesday after school, then the same for Chinese on Thursdays. My Aunt, who lives just a few miles away, was a HS teacher and a special ed teacher for nearly 30yrs. I'm going to see if I can get him some extra tutoring from her too.

This is a kid who should be getting straight A's. But he doesn't pay much attention, has horrible organizational skills, would rather be playing games and breezes through things just to get done instead of doing things and learning. I want to teach him many better ways, but I feel so lost at times, like I need to go back to school on some things just so that I can help him!

Hey Jim.....my granddaughter is taking Mandarin Chinese ... second year (also has two years of Latin) and no one in the family can help with that homework. Grandson is taking Russian .... never felt stupid until I had kids and grandkids.

[SassyLady]

I don't mind much so long as the kid learns - but what happens when a parent wants to intervene? I'm sure if I studied a bit I could help him out more, but I'm afraid of showing him in a different manner than he is learning.

This is something we are struggling with .... my grandson is a math whiz ... two grades above his age level. However, he cannot SHOW how he gets his answers. His mind makes these leaps from the question to the answer. Does it in his head and when he tries to do it the way the teacher does it he can't make it work. So, when he takes a test he does great ... but homework and showing his work....fail.

[SassyLady]

The ironic thing is, back in JHS and HS, I probably was quickest at completing my homework and in class quizzes and such. I just had a knack for numbers. But I must be getting old. Now I look at some of the problems and it looks like Greek to me and I find myself scratching my head. For example, here was question number 1...

5x + 7 = 4

Now in my head I can see that in order for 7 to be added to something to be 4, that something needs to be negative. Then I just plug in numbers to x until it adds up. As it is, 5 x -.06 would equal -3. -3 + 7 equals 4. But HOW to get there - he needs to LEARN and UNDERSTAND. Then he starts the line again, places a -7 under the 7 above and a -7 underneath the 4 and adds/subtracts them. I'm like WTF? I had no idea what he was doing, but he was doing it right and got the right answer.

And yes, what I just wrote probably made NO sense at all, and now you know what my brain feels like right now!! :laugh:

Makes perfect sense to me ... that is what I said above about grandson. My daughter was the same way ... you should see her do the Sudoku puzzles! She can see number sequences that baffle others.

[Kathianne]

If the original was 5x + 7 = 4

How did you know to subtract 7, instead of subtracting the 4? And then how did you know to divide both by 5, and not the -3? I know you're right, but want to understand how to get there.

Going through this for 2nd time, with more detached view. Great question, Jim.

That is exactly what a student would ask. I already know that the best response will follow, as I said, 2nd look hours later.

We know that the answer is to isolate the x. Once that is the 'known goal' the rest follows.

I certainly didn't have this down in middle school or early high school. Should have.

[SassyLady]

When I see math equations I see a puzzle and I love puzzles. I have accounting degree so math and numbers are my strengths .... nothing feels better than making things balance.

Jim, the next step is what to do when you have and x and a y in the equation. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

Me? I see things like sin or cosine and freak! I know the decimal for pi, but wtf is the big deal about it? LOL!

I'm getting better. Sort of.

[Thunderknuckles]

When I see math equations I see a puzzle and I love puzzles. I have accounting degree so math and numbers are my strengths .... nothing feels better than making things balance.

Jim, the next step is what to do when you have and x and a y in the equation. :laugh:
In the context of Algebra?
If so, then come see me Jim, there is a well known trick to doing that without ever having to do any "math".

[Kathianne]

In the context of Algebra?
If so, then come see me Jim, there is a well known trick to doing that without ever having to do any "math".

I'll leave jim with my original link and all you nerds to your numbers. ;)

[SassyLady]

In the context of Algebra?
If so, then come see me Jim, there is a well known trick to doing that without ever having to do any "math".

Yeah, Jim ... go see TK ... he's a better tutor than me!!! If it doesn't concern money, I lose interest. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

Yeah, Jim ... go see TK ... he's a better tutor than me!!! If it doesn't concern money, I lose interest. :laugh:

Will you please balance my checkbook? ;)

[SassyLady]

Will you please balance my checkbook? ;)

Yes ... I'm an expert .... can't rest until I find every penny!!! Used to have a client that would write a check and round up when she recorded it in the register. If she wrote a check for $4.01 she would round up to $5. If she wrote a check for $10.99 she would round up to $20. She always round up because she said that way she knew she would not be overdrawn. Drove me nuts every month balancing it.

What is really funny is a girlfriend I had bought a pair of shoes ... say for $100. Didn't like them so she took them back. They gave her cash back so she deleted the entry from her checkbook. What a mess that caused. :rolleyes:

[tailfins]

Will you please balance my checkbook? ;)

You still write checks?!?!?! I haven't written a check in 15 years.

[cadet]

I wish my math still had numbers in it... Any math questions, fire away!
ah, the curse of being in an engineering school.

[Robert A Whit]

This is something we are struggling with .... my grandson is a math whiz ... two grades above his age level. However, he cannot SHOW how he gets his answers. His mind makes these leaps from the question to the answer. Does it in his head and when he tries to do it the way the teacher does it he can't make it work. So, when he takes a test he does great ... but homework and showing his work....fail.

He may grow out of that problem and retain the solving of problems but get better putting it down on paper.

[jimnyc]

Thanks to one and all with the great suggestions and tips, and even a little homework of my own here! I feel like I'm in study hall trying to do a crash study prior to a test! But yeah, this will help me going forward, especially the Khan site.

[gabosaurus]

The studying of languages is a great asset to getting hired. Especially if you work in business.
My sister knows Spanish, German and French. She works in international films.

Going back to the topic of homework, I believe my parents had the right approach. They tied our grades to our privileges. Better grades and behavior means more privileges.
My sister and I did not phones in our rooms. Nor did we have our own TV sets. We had our music and games, but we couldn't do anything until we finished our homework.

Jim, I would establish contact with your son's instructors at school. Have them let you know if your kid isn't keeping up. Some teachers post homework assignments online.

My sister and I never made a grade less than a B in any class. We knew the consequences if we did.

[jimnyc]

The studying of languages is a great asset to getting hired. Especially if you work in business.
My sister knows Spanish, German and French. She works in international films.

Going back to the topic of homework, I believe my parents had the right approach. They tied our grades to our privileges. Better grades and behavior means more privileges.
My sister and I did not phones in our rooms. Nor did we have our own TV sets. We had our music and games, but we couldn't do anything until we finished our homework.

Jim, I would establish contact with your son's instructors at school. Have them let you know if your kid isn't keeping up. Some teachers post homework assignments online.

My sister and I never made a grade less than a B in any class. We knew the consequences if we did.

I'm in direct contact with his Math and Chinese teachers, as well as his guidance counselor. I also have his HW emailed to us every day so that I can keep up on it. Some teachers do this by default on their website, others don't. I think they should all have to, it's good for parents to know what the assignments are so that we can be more involved.

And the same as you, I was cool with A's and B's, but anything lower and there were consequences. My son thinks it's bad having the computer taken away for a day or 2, my Dad used to punish us for a month or 2, or an entire marking period!!

[gabosaurus]

My sister and I were very social in high school. Grounding us for a weekend was the worst punishment imaginable.

But I think you are on the right course. Most teachers are very willing to work with parents. They want kids to succeed.

[jimnyc]

Yay, my Aunt just got here and she'll be tutoring my son going forward. She's really the woman's Aunt, the woman being the wife. Anyway, I couldn't trust anyone more, and she was a teacher like forever and has been tutoring students and such for many, many years. And the best part, one of her specialties is 7th-12th grade math! Even she said, a parent's responsibility is to parent, and love, not teach kids schoolwork. Even though she's a teacher, she had someone else tutor her kids to have that balance.

[ConHog]

How do you help your child with homework if you don't understand the homework? He's doing algebra homework with division, coefficients and other crap. I'm sure I did good with this in HS myself, but can't barely remember now. I wanted him to show me in the text book where he is learning what his homework is, which is just a sheet of problems, but he says his teacher very rarely teaches out of the text book. He says she teaches on the board and they need to take notes and such.

I have no problem kind of teaching myself over again, so that I can help him, but I can't seem to find a way to do so. He sees his teacher after school every Tuesday for extra help, but that doesn't help me on days like today.

It drives me bananas when I can't help my own son with his homework problems.

Jim, go to a book bookstore and invest $20 in a quality ACT prep book. They do a VERY good job of explaining math.