Egypt's contentious Islamic constitution becomes law of the land..

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/egypts-leader-signs-contentious-constitution-law-091517463.html

The presidency announced on Wednesday that Mursi had formally approved the constitution, which was drafted by his Islamist allies, the previous evening, shortly after results showed that Egyptians had backed it in a referendum.
Keen to be seen as tough but fair, Mursi said it was time for all political forces to put aside their differences and start working together to bring economic stability.
"I will make all efforts, together with you, to push forward the economy which faces huge challenges and has great opportunities to grow," Mursi said in his first address to the nation since the adoption of the constitution.
The text won about 64 percent in a two-stage referendum, paving the way for a new parliamentary vote in about two months.
The main opposition group, which has until now boycotted all rounds of national unity talks led by Mursi's office, said it had not changed its position.
"The ongoing talks are farcical and theatrical," Hussein Abdel Ghani, an opposition spokesman, told reporters. He called on Egyptians to demonstrate against the new constitution on January 25, the second anniversary of Egypt's revolution.
He added that the opposition would stick to its policy of peaceful protest against Mursi's government, which he said sought to use religion as a tool to create an oppressive state.
ANOTHER ISLAMIST VICTORY
The referendum result marked yet another electoral victory for the Islamists since veteran autocrat Hosni Mubarak was toppled in 2011, following parliamentary elections last year and the presidential vote that brought Mursi to power this year.
The charter states that the principles of sharia, Islamic law, are the main source of legislation and that Islamic authorities will be consulted on sharia - a source of concern to the Christian minority and others.

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Told you people this would happen!--Tyr

[aboutime]

I see all of this as "THE CALM, BEFORE THE STORM" so-to-speak.

Anyone who thinks, or believes this will be the cure-all. Probably goes by the last name of Obama.

If Obama even hears the word ISLAMIST...he falls to his knee's, or bows down to the nearest World Puppet.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I see all of this as "THE CALM, BEFORE THE STORM" so-to-speak.

Anyone who thinks, or believes this will be the cure-all. Probably goes by the last name of Obama.

If Obama even hears the word ISLAMIST...he falls to his knee's, or bows down to the nearest World Puppet.

Egypt is now officially a theocracy just as I predicted that it would be , complete with Sharia law supplanting any previously established rights or laws. Only one religion and only one type of theocracy the liberals root for and its Islam. Notice how fanaticly adamant they are against any hint of a christian trheocracy here yet they root for the Islamists.--Tyr

[mundame]

Egypt is now officially a theocracy just as I predicted that it would be , complete with Sharia law supplanting any previously established rights or laws. Only one religion and only one type of theocracy the liberals root for and its Islam. Notice how fanaticly adamant they are against any hint of a christian trheocracy here yet they root for the Islamists.--Tyr


Well, Tyr, if you predicted that you did better than me!! I'm still embarrassed that I thought when the Army took over briefly after the Muslim Brotherhood guy got elected, that they and we who pay them won and the Muslims lost.

But soon this strange reversal happened --- and this Morsi guy got rid of the Army guys and put in his own.

Given that Iran has been a theocracy since 1979 and Turkey is going down after a really long secular history since WWI, and all the rest like Hamas and so on --- looks to me as though Islam is having a huge revival that bodes ill for the West.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, Tyr, if you predicted that you did better than me!! I'm still embarrassed that I thought when the Army took over briefly after the Muslim Brotherhood guy got elected, that they and we who pay them won and the Muslims lost.

But soon this strange reversal happened --- and this Morsi guy got rid of the Army guys and put in his own.

Given that Iran has been a theocracy since 1979 and Turkey is going down after a really long secular history since WWI, and all the rest like Hamas and so on --- looks to me as though Islam is having a huge revival that bodes ill for the West.

Which is exactly what I predicted early on when I declared that there was nothing of democracy about this so-called Arab spring. I stated right off that it was a muslim expansion movement! Yet we had several here believing the obama/media lies about it.-Tyr

[mundame]

Which is exactly what I predicted early on when I declared that there was nothing of democracy about this so-called Arab spring. I stated right off that it was a muslim expansion movement! Yet we had several here believing the obama/media lies about it.-Tyr

I THINK it started off as a democracy movement. I've been reading. Okay, that didn't last but a couple weeks, admittedly.

My understanding of the situation, for what it's worth, is that Hosni Mubarek, at 80, was grooming his son to take over after him, transforming the leadership into a hereditary monarchy like in Jordan or Syria or North Korea. Of course, NOBODY liked that.

The middle and upper-middle class started demonstrating in that square, for democracy. And the Muslim Brotherhood sat back and did NOTHING. But within a short time, a few weeks, it all degenerated into the rioting and revolution and raping and stone and bomb throwing we saw. And that was NOT the middle class. Because the Muslim fundamentalists had the numbers. They have I think it was 69% of the vote for this new president, hard core Islamists! Well, with numbers like that, there it is.

I tell you, Tyr, what happens big is never what we expect, and not even CLOSE. It's always something completely out of left field. Who would have thought the Arab world would go so headlong into fundamentalism like they are? Well, you, okay, but it sure surprised me. I don't have a good feeling about where the world is headed right now.....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I THINK it started off as a democracy movement. I've been reading. Okay, that didn't last but a couple weeks, admittedly.

My understanding of the situation, for what it's worth, is that Hosni Mubarek, at 80, was grooming his son to take over after him, transforming the leadership into a hereditary monarchy like in Jordan or Syria or North Korea. Of course, NOBODY liked that.

The middle and upper-middle class started demonstrating in that square, for democracy. And the Muslim Brotherhood sat back and did NOTHING. But within a short time, a few weeks, it all degenerated into the rioting and revolution and raping and stone and bomb throwing we saw. And that was NOT the middle class. Because the Muslim fundamentalists had the numbers. They have I think it was 69% of the vote for this new president, hard core Islamists! Well, with numbers like that, there it is.

I tell you, Tyr, what happens big is never what we expect, and not even CLOSE. It's always something completely out of left field. Who would have thought the Arab world would go so headlong into fundamentalism like they are? Well, you, okay, but it sure surprised me. I don't have a good feeling about where the world is headed right now.....

That's because its quite likely that you can feel how the world has been turned against us and how we have been weakened by obama . Our weakening has been by design not by error or ineptitude on obama's part..
Just as the Islamic expansion movement was falsely labelled and promoted to be a pro-democracy movement by obama and his media ally. -Tyr

[mundame]

Our weakening has been by design not by error or ineptitude on obama's part..
Just as the Islamic expansion movement was falsely labelled and promoted to be a pro-democracy movement by obama and his media ally. -Tyr


Yeah, weakening America does seem to be a big leftwing goal. Doesn't make sense to me that they'd want that since they live here too, but there it is.


You make a good point that the Arab Spring revolutions WERE labeled as "peaceful demonstrations" and pro-democracy well after it was obvious that they weren't any of that. They were revolutions and fundamentalist takeovers.

Okay, so why? I'm thinking it's like Benghazi: a continual effort to fool Americans into believing Obama was wildly successful in his foreign policy, when in fact, it lies broken like glass at our feet. First it was to win the election, and now it will be to preserve O's "legacy." But it's all fake --- we're losing a lot of the prestige and power we used to have.

[jafar00]

Which is exactly what I predicted early on when I declared that there was nothing of democracy about this so-called Arab spring. I stated right off that it was a muslim expansion movement! Yet we had several here believing the obama/media lies about it.-Tyr

Democracy is when people are allowed to vote for who they want and what they want with the majority winning. You have no reason to whine just because they voted for someone you don't like.

Morsi is right. What Egypt really needs right now is stability and unity especially since their economy is about as far down the gurgler as you can get. Instead of protesting and throwing stones at each other, the opposition could better serve their agendas by working on improving the country and preparing for the next election.

If everything turns out badly with Morsi, the people can vote someone else in at the next election. Just like they do in your country right Tyr?

[CSM]

Democracy is when people are allowed to vote for who they want and what they want with the majority winning. You have no reason to whine just because they voted for someone you don't like.

Morsi is right. What Egypt really needs right now is stability and unity especially since their economy is about as far down the gurgler as you can get. Instead of protesting and throwing stones at each other, the opposition could better serve their agendas by working on improving the country and preparing for the next election.

If everything turns out badly with Morsi, the people can vote someone else in at the next election. Just like they do in your country right Tyr?

Ideally, you are correcy. Unfortunately, it seldom works that way. Most of the time, the people elect some person into office who is really a despot in sheeps clothing. The despot then proceeds to use all available muscle to subjugate the people who elected them. Sure, they hold elections; rigged and then publicized that the tyrant received 100% of the vote. It appears that, in the Middle East at least, the people are merely trading one tyrant for another. Eventually, once the tyrant becomes weak enough, another civil war will start, the tyrant will become defeated and a new strongman will take over. Somebody will ALWAAYS fill the power vacuum. It will continue this way until either a strong man so suppresses a population that civil war is no longer possible or the people accidently elect a person who really does have the best interest of the country at heart. The latter is highly unlikely.

I would point out that the United States is somewhat unique in that, once the Revolutionary War was over, the country was NOT torn by civil war and the winner took over. The people of this nation came together and formed a nation based on the principle of a demcratic republic. The people were also smart enouranigh (informed voters ... imagine that!) to elect s person to power who had the best interest of the country and its people at heart. They continued to do that for many many decades. Sadly, it changed; the people have become lazy. They no longer are informed voters. The people now are willing to suspend their belief for promises of bread and circuses. It will not be long bfore the voters of this country elect a strongman to power who will ultimately subjugate the people and form the tyrannical government like that of most countries in the Middle East. There will continue to be elections, the prisons will become full of political/religious criminals and the rest of the people will not dare to say or do anything.

[fj1200]

Is it possible to sell a whole country short?


The government is now in talks with business figures, trade unions and other groups to persuade them of the need for tax increases to resolve the crisis. Mursi has committed to such austerity measures to receive a $4.8 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund.

[fj1200]

Democracy is when people are allowed to vote for who they want and what they want with the majority winning. You have no reason to whine just because they voted for someone you don't like.

Morsi is right. What Egypt really needs right now is stability and unity especially since their economy is about as far down the gurgler as you can get. Instead of protesting and throwing stones at each other, the opposition could better serve their agendas by working on improving the country and preparing for the next election.

If everything turns out badly with Morsi, the people can vote someone else in at the next election. Just like they do in your country right Tyr?

This will probably be another example of the long tradition of Muslim democracy of one-vote-one-time; You can't just elect a new Constitution. Besides, as my post above indicates, Morsi is not taking positions that will further stability or growth unless you can fill us in on which of his policies will further the development of Egypt and not just its current "leaders."

[mundame]

The people now are willing to suspend their belief for promises of bread and circuses. It will not be long bfore the voters of this country elect a strongman to power who will ultimately subjugate the people and form the tyrannical government like that of most countries in the Middle East. There will continue to be elections, the prisons will become full of political/religious criminals and the rest of the people will not dare to say or do anything.


Yeah, that's what I think, too. It is what always happens in every country, forever, and we are so overdue! We fended off dictatorship for a long time, a record time maybe; I'd have to look up how long the Roman Republic lasted, but we are into our third century, a good run. Rome collapsed into dictatorship, and so will we. So does every country, eventually.

And maybe that would be better, if the strongman is enlightened, than democracy that depends on felons, homeless, drug abusers, food stamp takers all voting like we have now.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yeah, weakening America does seem to be a big leftwing goal. Doesn't make sense to me that they'd want that since they live here too, but there it is.


You make a good point that the Arab Spring revolutions WERE labeled as "peaceful demonstrations" and pro-democracy well after it was obvious that they weren't any of that. They were revolutions and fundamentalist takeovers.

Okay, so why? I'm thinking it's like Benghazi: a continual effort to fool Americans into believing Obama was wildly successful in his foreign policy, when in fact, it lies broken like glass at our feet. First it was to win the election, and now it will be to preserve O's "legacy." But it's all fake --- we're losing a lot of the prestige and power we used to have.

Sure part of it was to praise obama and give him credit for the movement there and highlight the greatness of that movement. All being lies intended to deceive in order to bring the American population into the let's support this movement , this new "Arab Spring" movement. It was pure government propaganda and as usual bellowed forth by the all to willing sold out press. Of course the ruse had to be kept up until after obama's re-election! Now we see more of how it truly was because keeping the ruse up is not nearly as important as it previously was. Same as was the lie spewed forth before the election that obama didnt want to take our guns! See how quick he jumped at a chance to start his anti-gun campaign . Started even before his swearing in but after his win!
There is no justice when deceit and treason are both praised as heroic deeds! The is no true security when deceit and treason are praised as heroic deeds! There will be no return to wealth and prosperity as a nation as long as this deliberate destroyer is in office! In fact , as long as he is in charge we will be lucky to not meet utter destruction as a nation! Here is what so many are missing, he is a muslim- in -hiding.. If not familiar with that term and what it means research it and you'll see that it explains obama's actions as President. It also explains his actions against Israel and its interests and his bowing to and giving support to Israel's enemies. Remember that to Islam , Israel is the "little Satan" while America is the big Satan!-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Democracy is when people are allowed to vote for who they want and what they want with the majority winning. You have no reason to whine just because they voted for someone you don't like.

Morsi is right. What Egypt really needs right now is stability and unity especially since their economy is about as far down the gurgler as you can get. Instead of protesting and throwing stones at each other, the opposition could better serve their agendas by working on improving the country and preparing for the next election.

If everything turns out badly with Morsi, the people can vote someone else in at the next election. Just like they do in your country right Tyr?

Nothing democratic about a religious takeover of a nation !! Nothing democratic about a Theocracy! Certainly NOTHING democratic about a Islamic theocracy as we see Iran having ! Egypt just became the same.
See if you can get the libs here to explain to you why a theocracy is so terrible. They are masters at condemning the ideal of a CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY ever coming to life here in America!
Perhaps you fail to understand that a pure democracy is "mob rule" !! We as a nation are not a pure democracy.
We are a Representative Republic based upon democratic principles with a Constitution and Bill of Rights to insure the security, prosperity and freedoms of the citizens! What Egypt got was a theocracy and no theocracy is democratic in design or function. What Egypt got was Sharia law just as I predicted and there is nothing about Sharia law that is pro-democracy.. -Tyr

[mundame]

Here is what so many are missing, he is a muslim- in -hiding.. If not familiar with that term and what it means research it and you'll see that it explains obama's actions as President. It also explains his actions against Israel and its interests and his bowing to and giving support to Israel's enemies. Remember that to Islam , Isreal is the "little Satan" while America is the big Satan!-Tyr


Agreed.

He was born Muslim; he was raised Muslim in Indonesia; he went to a "church" that openly hates America and supported Louis Farrakhan's Black Muslims, an odd thing for a supposedly Christian church to do.......

Hey, these are clues. It's a mistake to simply ignore clues as obvious as that! I like your points about his strange bowing to Saudis and opposing Israel. It does fit with his possibly being a Muslim -- good catch.

[Drummond]

Democracy is when people are allowed to vote for who they want and what they want with the majority winning. You have no reason to whine just because they voted for someone you don't like.

Morsi is right. What Egypt really needs right now is stability and unity especially since their economy is about as far down the gurgler as you can get. Instead of protesting and throwing stones at each other, the opposition could better serve their agendas by working on improving the country and preparing for the next election.

If everything turns out badly with Morsi, the people can vote someone else in at the next election. Just like they do in your country right Tyr?

You know what Morsi's behaviour reminds me of ?

.. well ....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/opinion/03iht-edkershaw.1.9700744.html?_r=0


... Today, too, skillful politicians have proved adept at using democratic structures to erect forms of authoritarian rule. President Vladimir Putin has gradually moved Russia, a country increasingly flexing its muscles internationally again, in that direction. Venezuela, under President Hugo Chávez, has also showed distinct authoritarian tendencies, though these have been at least partly blocked through his defeat in the December referendum to change its constitution.

In Zimbabwe, President Robert Mugabe has turned democracy into personal rule, ruining his country in the process. In Pakistan, democracy largely provides a facade for military rule, even if President Pervez Musharraf has now put aside his uniform. Most worryingly, perhaps, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has used populist support in a pluralist system to push Iran into a hazardous foreign policy, though he does remain formally subordinate to the "supreme leader," Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Such 'nice' people ...

Morsi wants edicts of his to be unassailable. History is replete with examples of the subversion of democratic process by power-mad dictators.

In this case, Morsi wants Islam to do what Islam, via the Muslim Brotherhood, does best .. to be a system that rules with an iron fist ..

.. beheadings and Sharia atrocities notwithstanding ...

[aboutime]

You know what Morsi's behaviour reminds me of ?

.. well ....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/opinion/03iht-edkershaw.1.9700744.html?_r=0



Such 'nice' people ...

Morsi wants edicts of his to be unassailable. History is replete with examples of the subversion of democratic process by power-mad dictators.

In this case, Morsi wants Islam to do what Islam, via the Muslim Brotherhood, does best .. to be a system that rules with an iron fist ..

.. beheadings and Sharia atrocities notwithstanding ...



Drummond. jafar is wrong again. He is convinced we have a DEMOCRACY here in the USA. When the facts are. We have a Democratic Republic.
Jafar should learn, or should know. A Pure Democracy is far worse than Socialism, and even Communism.
Pure Democracy is MOB RULE. There are no Minority, or Majority rules.
That is what Egypt has adopted.
When they want to change leaders...in the Democracy jafar see's. The one way to change is to either Rebel, or Assassinate the leader. MOB RULES. Period.

[jimnyc]

What Egypt got was Sharia law just as I predicted and there is nothing about Sharia law that is pro-democracy.. -Tyr

I remember telling Abso a long, long while back, when this first happened, that the Brotherhood would dig their claws in. He said the people would never allow for it. I further told him that they would institute Sharia Law, and he said that would never happen.

I just hope that we don't see another country that is going to take away rights from the people, from women, and perform various levels of abuse based on petty "crimes" as per Sharia. It would be nice to see REAL freedom and let the people run the country, not having leaders making changes to make themselves impenetrable.

[mundame]

I remember telling Abso a long, long while back, when this first happened, that the Brotherhood would dig their claws in. He said the people would never allow for it. I further told him that they would institute Sharia Law, and he said that would never happen.

I just hope that we don't see another country that is going to take away rights from the people, from women, and perform various levels of abuse based on petty "crimes" as per Sharia. It would be nice to see REAL freedom and let the people run the country, not having leaders making changes to make themselves impenetrable.

Well, you were right! [Sigh] I too thought surely we had paid so much to support Egypt all these years, that their military would stay bought, but not so.... or at least, they are powerless. And that they were after "freedom," as if. Okay, live and learn, Egypt went down the tubes like Iran!

This is not going well.

[jimnyc]

Well, you were right! [Sigh] I too thought surely we had paid so much to support Egypt all these years, that their military would stay bought, but not so.... or at least, they are powerless. And that they were after "freedom," as if. Okay, live and learn, Egypt went down the tubes like Iran!

This is not going well.

It's hard to have a democracy when a leader is making decrees to make himself above the law. It's easy to see what follows when they start doing that. And we'll have to wait and see whether he truly will be running things, or anyone else. Look at Iran, does anyone really believe that the idiot ahmidenejad is running things? They give the people the democracy but in reality it's ran by a bunch of religious nutters.

[Gaffer]

I said years ago, when the first uprising started in Egypt, that this was coming, the brotherhood would take control and soon there would be an egyptian version of the taliban. As with Jim, abso said I was nuts, it would never happen. Jim and I were right. Libya is going the same way and so is syria. The brotherhoods caliphate is being formed. Other countries will either comply with them or suffer the same revolutions. The rise of the new muslim empire is taking place.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I remember telling Abso a long, long while back, when this first happened, that the Brotherhood would dig their claws in. He said the people would never allow for it. I further told him that they would institute Sharia Law, and he said that would never happen.

I just hope that we don't see another country that is going to take away rights from the people, from women, and perform various levels of abuse based on petty "crimes" as per Sharia. It would be nice to see REAL freedom and let the people run the country, not having leaders making changes to make themselves impenetrable.

I remember we both stated exactly what would happen and we both hit it dead on correct. I also remember several stating we were wrong too. I knew that time would show how correct we were!--Tyr

[mundame]

I said years ago, when the first uprising started in Egypt, that this was coming, the brotherhood would take control and soon there would be an egyptian version of the taliban. As with Jim, abso said I was nuts, it would never happen. Jim and I were right. Libya is going the same way and so is syria. The brotherhoods caliphate is being formed. Other countries will either comply with them or suffer the same revolutions. The rise of the new muslim empire is taking place.


Yes. Remarkable how widespread it is!

Something I am concerned about is that it may not be restricted to Muslims. India is going up right now, this week --- serious rioting about that rape case. Now, normally such a local crime would not cause huge riots, but in this world climate of revolution when we even had the Occupy people in our cities --- any place can go up in rebellion and revolution. I believe China is trying to keep a careful lid on the contagion there, too.

[jafar00]

.... because it's not like Egypt's law wasn't derived from Sharia before..... I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about.

[jimnyc]

.... because it's not like Egypt's law wasn't derived from Sharia before..... I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about.

You're one of the only ones then. The majority of the free world is looking at Egypt right now as a major clusterfuck, where one man (or a group) are trying to make a power play as a dictator or theocracy. This is pretty much why the people had the uprising to begin with. I think it's worthy of a little fuss, watching yet another country go down the crapper.

[jimnyc]

This is better stated about why it's a fuss, based on the original uprising and the current opponents.


The new charter, which the secularist opposition says betrays Egypt’s 2011 revolution by dangerously mixing religion and politics, has polarised the Arab world’s most populous nation and prompted occasionally violent protest on the streets.

That's why I think it's an issue to bring in hardline Islamists and try to force Sharia law on the country.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2253525/Egypt-fears-run-banks-imposes-limit-people-withdraw.html

[aboutime]

.... because it's not like Egypt's law wasn't derived from Sharia before..... I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about.


jafar. You have a knack for proving to the rest of us. How you don't understand, just about everything unless you are permitted to control the opinions, and idea's of others.

So. When you say "I honestly don't understand". That is more factual, and an UNDERSTATEMENT, than you will ever know. And most of us already knew it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

.... because it's not like Egypt's law wasn't derived from Sharia before..... I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about.

You do not understand because you see Sharia law as a great thing. The Arab Spring was sold here as a democracy movement(which was a lie) and gullible Americans bought the propaganda! Not me but millions did and obama told them that it was a democracy movement. Now its proven to be exactly what I said right off, a muslim expansion movement and one that would bring Sharia law and a theocracy to Egypt. Im not disappointed because I knew the truth from the start but tens of millions of Americans are because they were the gullible little dumbass twits that I called them !
The entire ME overthrow movement that spread across the ME WAS A MUSLIM ADVANCEMENT AND UNIFICATION MOVEMENT JUST LIKE I STATED IT WAS FROM THE START!
Now millions are starting to see that truth and the shock has them confused and some are pissed off.
So blatantly lied to by obama and the press!
I get a laugh at their ignorance and gullibility and I laugh wholeheartedly now at those that told me I was wrong! -Tyr

[jafar00]

I know all of you immediately oppose anything I post, but just ask any Egyptian on the street about the oncoming Shariah Law in Egypt and you will get the same response. "What? Weren't we also Muslims before?".

I was married according to Sharia. I had to promise to treat my wife well according to the examples of the Prophet Mohammed (saw) and other vows based firmly in Islamic teachings. The marriage documents were signed in the Mosque with a Sheikh. If they want to make Egypt more compliant with Sharia, I hardly think they can do more than has already been done.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I know all of you immediately oppose anything I post, but just ask any Egyptian on the street about the oncoming Shariah Law in Egypt and you will get the same response. "What? Weren't we also Muslims before?".

I was married according to Sharia. I had to promise to treat my wife well according to the examples of the Prophet Mohammed (saw) and other vows based firmly in Islamic teachings. The marriage documents were signed in the Mosque with a Sheikh. If they want to make Egypt more compliant with Sharia, I hardly think they can do more than has already been done.

I only oppose that which I know to be wrong. I've made no effort to be at odds with you on everything. I do strongly oppose your support of any terrorist organization and always will on that . -Tyr

[aboutime]

I only oppose that which I know to be wrong. I've made no effort to be at odds with you on everything. I do strongly oppose your support of any terrorist organization and always will on that . -Tyr


Tyr. Now we know jafar's problem. He thinks all of us here in the USA have Egyptians walking around on our streets, begging to be asked questions.

Last time I met a Real Egyptian was back in 1994, when we stopped in Suez, awaiting the Pilot to come aboard before our trip South.

jafar has refused to denounce his support of Hamas, and the Muslim Brotherhood that is now primed, and ready to destroy Egypt.

Excuses, and more excuses just don't seem to cut it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr. Now we know jafar's problem. He thinks all of us here in the USA have Egyptians walking around on our streets, begging to be asked questions.

Last time I met a Real Egyptian was back in 1994, when we stopped in Suez, awaiting the Pilot to come aboard before our trip South.

jafar has refused to denounce his support of Hamas, and the Muslim Brotherhood that is now primed, and ready to destroy Egypt.

Excuses, and more excuses just don't seem to cut it.

What he said was why are you people shocked that Egypt went for Sharia law instead of true democracy and justice for its people? And he is correct in that Islamists will always choose, Allah, the Koran , Mohammad and Sharia above anything else!!!!! A point that I've made often when confronted with muslim appeasers telling me that American muslims are different AND ARE SO PEACEFUL!!
My stock answer to that was, not if they are true muslims!! Jafar just agreed with my answer although he didn't intend to. His reply was in essence a muslim is a muslim first and always! A concept the appeasers and deluded fooooooooooooooooooooools never seem to get. I've made it so often and in many different ways.
You can feed a snake everyday for years but first time you trust it too much you will likely get bitten!
A true muslim is taught to deceive the infidels in order to always gain advantage for Allah's greater glory! -Tyr

[Marcus Aurelius]

I know all of you immediately oppose anything I post, but just ask any Egyptian on the street about the oncoming Shariah Law in Egypt and you will get the same response. "What? Weren't we also Muslims before?".

I was married according to Sharia. I had to promise to treat my wife well according to the examples of the Prophet Mohammed (saw) and other vows based firmly in Islamic teachings. The marriage documents were signed in the Mosque with a Sheikh. If they want to make Egypt more compliant with Sharia, I hardly think they can do more than has already been done.

You had to promise to have sex with her when she was 9 years old, like Mohammad did to one of his wives???

[jafar00]

Tyr. Now we know jafar's problem. He thinks all of us here in the USA have Egyptians walking around on our streets, begging to be asked questions.

Last time I met a Real Egyptian was back in 1994, when we stopped in Suez, awaiting the Pilot to come aboard before our trip South.

jafar has refused to denounce his support of Hamas, and the Muslim Brotherhood that is now primed, and ready to destroy Egypt.

Excuses, and more excuses just don't seem to cut it.

Since you never meet Egyptians, you have no idea what they are thinking. I married an Egyptian and I'm in contact with Egyptians on a daily basis.


What he said was why are you people shocked that Egypt went for Sharia law instead of true democracy and justice for its people? And he is correct in that Islamists will always choose, Allah, the Koran , Mohammad and Sharia above anything else!!!!! A point that I've made often when confronted with muslim appeasers telling me that American muslims are different AND ARE SO PEACEFUL!!
My stock answer to that was, not if they are true muslims!! Jafar just agreed with my answer although he didn't intend to. His reply was in essence a muslim is a muslim first and always! A concept the appeasers and deluded fooooooooooooooooooooools never seem to get. I've made it so often and in many different ways.

American Muslims are true Muslims and I would never claim anything to the contrary. They are also under constant threat of attack because of people like you who campaign against Muslims every day.


You can feed a snake everyday for years but first time you trust it too much you will likely get bitten!
A true muslim is taught to deceive the infidels in order to always gain advantage for Allah's greater glory! -Tyr

Lying is forbidden in Islam. It appears that is not the case with your religion.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Since you never meet Egyptians, you have no idea what they are thinking. I married an Egyptian and I'm in contact with Egyptians on a daily basis.



American Muslims are true Muslims and I would never claim anything to the contrary. They are also under constant threat of attack because of people like you who campaign against Muslims every day.



Lying is forbidden in Islam. It appears that is not the case with your religion.

Really!!! No lying you say.
How about this Jafar, and do not say it is not about lying .--Tyr

http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm



<tbody>
http://www.al-islam.org/images/back.gif (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/title.htm)
<center>Chapter 1</center>

http://www.al-islam.org/images/next.gif (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/2.htm)


</tbody>
<center>What is Taqiyah?</center>
http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/taqiyyah_files/image002.jpg


He who disbelieves in Allah after his belief in Him, (is the liar) except he who is compelled while his heart remains steadfast with the faith (has nothing worry). But who opens his breast for infidelity; on these is wrath of Allah, and for them is a great torment. [1] (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm#r1)

This verse of the Qur’an refers to the incident when 'Ammar bin Yasir (May Allah be pleased with both) had to utter some words against Islam to save himself from the Quraishite infidels.

It clearly allows hiding one 's true faith when one is in danger of one's life. This rule is called taqiyah.

Question 1: What is the meaning of "Taqiyah"?

Answer: Its literal meaning is to safeguard; to defend; to fear; piety (because it saves one from the displeasure of Allah).

Al‑Munjid says:

http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/taqiyyah_files/image004.jpg

This gist of above is that the word taqiyahmeans to be on guard, to fear, to be pious.

The dictionary as‑Surah says, (Taqiyah, tuqat = piety)

http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/taqiyyah_files/image006.jpg

Question 2: What is its significance in Islamic termi*nology?
Answer: In Islamic terminology it means "to save life, honour. or property (either one's own or of other be*lievers) by hiding one's belief or religion". [2] (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm#r2)

Question 3: Is it something peculiar to the Shi'ism, be*cause I have heard many people accusing the Shi'as because oftaq'iyah?
Answer: Every society, religion and group practices it and has practiced it at one time or the other. You will find so many examples of taqiyahin the Old and the New Testaments, and even in the lives of the Holy Prophet of Islam, his Companions and many Sunni scholars.

Question 4: But is this practice allowed in Islam?

Answer. Yes. Allah has allowed it in the Qur’an; and reason too shows the wisdom of this permission.
Shah `Abdul `Aziz Dehlawi writes: "It should be known thattaqiyah is, in fact, allowed by shari`ah, by authority of theQur’anic verses, "except when ;you have to guard against them" ; and "except he who is compelled while his heart remains steadfast with the faith.” [3] (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm#r3)

Famous Sunni scholar, `Allamah Wahidu 'z‑zaman Khan of
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we see how lying is not permitted ... How it is forbidden!!!!--Tyr

[Kathianne]

Since you never meet Egyptians, you have no idea what they are thinking. I married an Egyptian and I'm in contact with Egyptians on a daily basis.



American Muslims are true Muslims and I would never claim anything to the contrary. They are also under constant threat of attack because of people like you who campaign against Muslims every day.



Lying is forbidden in Islam. It appears that is not the case with your religion.

Actually I've known quite a few Egyptians from school. I also correspond with 6 frequently via email. It seems the 'will of the Egyptians' isn't being met, but those 'in control' have control. It wasn't nearly as tenuous as our media sounded a few scant weeks ago.

[jafar00]

Really!!! No lying you say.
How about this Jafar, and do not say it is not about lying .--Tyr

http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm



<tbody>
http://www.al-islam.org/images/back.gif (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/title.htm)
<center>Chapter 1</center>

http://www.al-islam.org/images/next.gif (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/2.htm)


</tbody>
<center>What is Taqiyah?</center>
http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/taqiyyah_files/image002.jpg


He who disbelieves in Allah after his belief in Him, (is the liar) except he who is compelled while his heart remains steadfast with the faith (has nothing worry). But who opens his breast for infidelity; on these is wrath of Allah, and for them is a great torment. [1] (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm#r1)

This verse of the Qur’an refers to the incident when 'Ammar bin Yasir (May Allah be pleased with both) had to utter some words against Islam to save himself from the Quraishite infidels.

It clearly allows hiding one 's true faith when one is in danger of one's life. This rule is called taqiyah.

Question 1: What is the meaning of "Taqiyah"?

Answer: Its literal meaning is to safeguard; to defend; to fear; piety (because it saves one from the displeasure of Allah).

Al‑Munjid says:

http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/taqiyyah_files/image004.jpg

This gist of above is that the word taqiyahmeans to be on guard, to fear, to be pious.

The dictionary as‑Surah says, (Taqiyah, tuqat = piety)

http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/taqiyyah_files/image006.jpg

Question 2: What is its significance in Islamic termi*nology?
Answer: In Islamic terminology it means "to save life, honour. or property (either one's own or of other be*lievers) by hiding one's belief or religion". [2] (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm#r2)

Question 3: Is it something peculiar to the Shi'ism, be*cause I have heard many people accusing the Shi'as because oftaq'iyah?
Answer: Every society, religion and group practices it and has practiced it at one time or the other. You will find so many examples of taqiyahin the Old and the New Testaments, and even in the lives of the Holy Prophet of Islam, his Companions and many Sunni scholars.

Question 4: But is this practice allowed in Islam?

Answer. Yes. Allah has allowed it in the Qur’an; and reason too shows the wisdom of this permission.
Shah `Abdul `Aziz Dehlawi writes: "It should be known thattaqiyah is, in fact, allowed by shari`ah, by authority of theQur’anic verses, "except when ;you have to guard against them" ; and "except he who is compelled while his heart remains steadfast with the faith.” [3] (http://www.al-islam.org/taqiyah/1.htm#r3)

Famous Sunni scholar, `Allamah Wahidu 'z‑zaman Khan of
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we see how lying is not permitted ... How it is forbidden!!!!--Tyr

Yes, I know what Shia'ism teaches. This is not in Islam.


261. Chapter: On the clarification of what lying is permitted

Know that lying, even if it is basically forbidden, is permitted in certain cases with certain preconditions which I explained in the Kitab al-Adhkar. In brief, words are a means to ends. If any goal which is praiseworthy can be obtained without lying, then it is forbidden to lie in it. If it can only be obtained by lying, then it is permitted to lie. If the goal is permissible, then the lie is permissible, and if the goal is mandatory, then lying is mandatory. If a Muslim is hiding from a wrongdoer who wants to kill him or take his property which he has hidden and a man is asked about him, it is mandatory to lie to conceal him. The same is true if he has a deposit and a wrongdoer wants to take it: he must lie to conceal it. It is more circumspect for him to use allusion and to employ expressions which are not lies in themselves although they give a false impression. If he actually lies, it is not forbidden in such a case.
Scholars find the permission to lie in this case in the hadith of Umm Kulthum who heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, "The one who puts things right between people and produces (or says) good is not a liar." [Agreed upon]
Muslim's variant adds, "Umm Kulthum said, "I did not hear him make an allowance regarding anything that people say except in three cases: in war, putting things right between people, and what a man says to his wife and a wife says to her husband.


So "White" lies are ok. for example...

1) In War


One of the teachers killed in the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School was killed after reportedly hiding some children and then lying to the gunman that they were elsewhere in the school.
Investigators told the family of Victoria Soto that she was killed while shielding her pupils.
Anne Amato from the Connecticut Post explains what is believed to have happened.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20746497

In that case, a lot of good came from lying to the gunman didn't it?

2) Putting things right between people: You are mediating between two feuding parties, and you tell one that the other said something nice about them in order to defuse the situation.

3) what a man says to his wife and a wife says to her husband:

Wife: Does my butt look big in this?
Husband: Wow that dress looks great on you!

Do you understand now?

Lying to deceive in order for personal gain or lies that lead to evil are not in any way permitted.