He should NEVER have run

[Robert A Whit]

Romney should NEVER have been in the race. IF, only IF, this is true.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mitt-romney-no-desire-president-tagg-says-191236665--election.html (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mitt-romney-no-desire-president-tagg-says-191236665--election.html)

<O:p</O:p
Mitt Romney didn't want to be president, anyway.<O:p></O:p>
That's what Tagg Romney, Mitt's oldest son, told the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2012/president/2012/12/23/the-story-behind-mitt-romney-loss-the-presidential-campaign-president-obama/2QWkUB9pJgVIi1mAcIhQjL/story-1.html) for its big post-mortem on his father's failed presidential bid published on Sunday.<O:p></O:p>
“He wanted to be president less than anyone I’ve met in my life," Tagg Romney told the paper. "He had no desire to ... run. If he could have found someone else to take his place ... he would have been ecstatic to step aside.<O:p></O:p>
"He is a very private person who loves his family deeply and wants to be with them," Tagg continued. "He has deep faith in God and he loves his country, but he doesn’t love the attention.”<O:p></O:p>
Romney's reluctance to become commander in chief has been hinted at by his sons before. Before their father sought the 2012 GOP nomination, several said they tried to convince him not to run.<O:p></O:p>
"I tried to convince him not to," Matt Romney told Conan O'Brien in June (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-sons-tried-convince-him-not-run-025225217.html). "I think there were a few of us that tried that. I just felt for us as a family, this isn't the best thing. But ... for the country, we think it's the right thing."<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>

[mundame]

I think the Mormon Church made him run, same as they got his father to run.

They've been wanting a president since their founder, Joseph Smith, who was seriously running for president when he was assassinated by a mob in an Illinois jail because of his obsessive pederasty with young girls, whom he did once or more and then called "spiritual wives," but leaving them living where they were. The community got quite tired of this and decided to put him down.

The Romney family was one of the original families sent outside the then-boundaries of the USA during the 1920s to preserve polygamy at the command of the Mormon Church. And then they run two Romneys for president? Uh-huh. It's to get polygamy re-legalized, and I'm having nothing to do with all that.

[aboutime]

Does anyone really care whether Romney wanted to run or not?

Fact is. The election ended the night of November 6th. Obama was re-elected.

Why does anyone need to know whether the loser. In this case...Romney. Wanted to win or not?

Does that change anything?

Are there any changes that might take place...AFTER THE FACT, knowing WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, HOW, or WHY????

We are SIX DAYS from becoming the SLAVES to a government that is about to TAX Every American to a Higher Rate, than at any other time in our History....and somebody is worried about a man who has no impact on JANUARY 1ST?????

[mundame]

I think it demonstrates clearly what I've assumed from the beginning, that the Mormon Church controlled Romney entirely. He ran because they told him to, just as they also told his father to run.

He's a grown man, if he didn't want to run, why did he, you know? There had to be a reason. That reason would be his controlling church. They wanted a man in the White House. We're just as well off he didn't get there! I don't like Obama either, but I sure didn't want a Mormon there plotting how to get polygamy legalized again finally.

[aboutime]

I think it demonstrates clearly what I've assumed from the beginning, that the Mormon Church controlled Romney entirely. He ran because they told him to, just as they also told his father to run.

He's a grown man, if he didn't want to run, why did he, you know? There had to be a reason. That reason would be his controlling church. They wanted a man in the White House. We're just as well off he didn't get there! I don't like Obama either, but I sure didn't want a Mormon there plotting how to get polygamy legalized again finally.


Too bad your hatred preceded you here. Does it strike you as unusual in any way? How ONLY YOU are concerned with whether the man you hate, with his church, as a Mormon....means nothing to anybody else?

[Robert A Whit]

I think the Mormon Church made him run, same as they got his father to run.

They've been wanting a president since their founder, Joseph Smith, who was seriously running for president when he was assassinated by a mob in an Illinois jail because of his obsessive pederasty with young girls, whom he did once or more and then called "spiritual wives," but leaving them living where they were. The community got quite tired of this and decided to put him down.

The Romney family was one of the original families sent outside the then-boundaries of the USA during the 1920s to preserve polygamy at the command of the Mormon Church. And then they run two Romneys for president? Uh-huh. It's to get polygamy re-legalized, and I'm having nothing to do with all that.

If the LDS church made him run, that would be historical. But the Church does not tell anybody to run for office.

I don't believe that the Catholic church got Kennedy to run. I don't believe that the church attended by Obama got him to run.

I reject your blast against Joseph Smith. As a long standing member, at no time have I been informed that the church forces any person to run for any office. Seems we Mormons ought to know were it true. As to Joseph and his wives, it is no more than what Arabs do today. It was considered a better way for marriage age women than to be all alone.

I am shocked you justify murder. Can you please correct your remarks to show you do not approve the murder of Joseph Smith?

The tiny sect that calls themselves Mormons are not the main stream group of which both Romney and his father were part of. Romney did not go to Mexico to establish polygamy.

I have been to church many many times and at no time have I heard anybody trying to get polygamy to be the law. How do you explain this? I also have to tell you that I have NEVER been to any Mormon meeting that was about political issues.
Thanks

[Robert A Whit]

I think it demonstrates clearly what I've assumed from the beginning, that the Mormon Church controlled Romney entirely. He ran because they told him to, just as they also told his father to run.

He's a grown man, if he didn't want to run, why did he, you know? There had to be a reason. That reason would be his controlling church. They wanted a man in the White House. We're just as well off he didn't get there! I don't like Obama either, but I sure didn't want a Mormon there plotting how to get polygamy legalized again finally.

See, you assumed again. That habit gets you into hot water. Romney's father was into it. Mitt's wife says she urged him to run.

Why don't you actually attend some meetings. I know you will never hear any member preaching they want polygamy.

The sect we see as a Cult does. I think you got us confused with the sect out in the sticks.

[Robert A Whit]

Does anyone really care whether Romney wanted to run or not?

Fact is. The election ended the night of November 6th. Obama was re-elected.

Why does anyone need to know whether the loser. In this case...Romney. Wanted to win or not?

Does that change anything?

Are there any changes that might take place...AFTER THE FACT, knowing WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, HOW, or WHY????

We are SIX DAYS from becoming the SLAVES to a government that is about to TAX Every American to a Higher Rate, than at any other time in our History....and somebody is worried about a man who has no impact on JANUARY 1ST?????

As I said, IF .... IF .... that story is true, Romney should NEVER have run for that office. And claims the Church made him to is are entirely wrong.

While some see the Mormon Church as republican, the church appeals to many democrats.

Both my parents, devoted Mormons would support Reid who is a Mormon but not support Romney who also is one. They refused to support Romney's father.

The church is a big tent. It takes no stands on political office. Bear in mind, it has far too many Democrat members for it to take stands or support some person over some other person.

[mundame]

If the LDS church made him run, that would be historical. But the Church does not tell anybody to run for office.

I don't believe that the Catholic church got Kennedy to run. I don't believe that the church attended by Obama got him to run.

I reject your blast against Joseph Smith. As a long standing member, at no time have I been informed that the church forces any person to run for any office. Seems we Mormons ought to know were it true. As to Joseph and his wives, it is no more than what Arabs do today. It was considered a better way for marriage age women than to be all alone.

I am shocked you justify murder. Can you please correct your remarks to show you do not approve the murder of Joseph Smith?

The tiny sect that calls themselves Mormons are not the main stream group of which both Romney and his father were part of. Romney did not go to Mexico to establish polygamy.

I have been to church many many times and at no time have I heard anybody trying to get polygamy to be the law. How do you explain this? I also have to tell you that I have NEVER been to any Mormon meeting that was about political issues.
Thanks


Certainly the Romneys went to Mexico to keep polygamy going! It's well known and Romney himself has spoken about it. Colorado Creek and Bountiful, Canada are the two other sites they established for the same purpose, and both are polygamist right now. I bet you know this perfectly well.

I don't mind at all that Smith was killed by a mob: his pederasty was a terrible thing, similar to that fundamentalist Mormon creep who raped so many young girls recently, and is in jail for it. Smith was a con man who was one of many New England utopianists who started communes and utopian communities during the 1830s; his was the only one that succeeded. These sorts of groups ALWAYS involve weird sex, like the David Koresh group not long ago. The history of Joseph Smith's carryings on is widely available in all libraries, but I notice that Mormons themselves always deny it and in fact have carefully kept themselves away from it -- not faith-protective, I guess. No, reading about REAL Mormon history is definitely not faith-protective. If you want to believe in this stuff, you cannot learn the truth, and you carefully don't.

Fundamentalist Mormons are ALL polygamists because polygamy is absolutely central to Mormon scriptures. They view themselves as the "real" Mormons because of that; and they are right. The rest of you would be polygamists too except that federal troops moved into Salt Lake City in 1892 and put a stop to it, finally, after some six decades. The cruelty to women and very young girls this bad coercion and male supremacy involved and still involves makes it totally unacceptable to me and so I would never vote for a Mormon for president. I believe the Mormon Church wants a president so they can re-establish this evil custom and treat women like 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart was treated.

[Robert A Whit]

Certainly the Romneys went to Mexico to keep polygamy going! It's well known and Romney himself has spoken about it. Colorado Creek and Bountiful, Canada are the two other sites they established for the same purpose, and both are polygamist right now. I bet you know this perfectly well.

I don't mind at all that Smith was killed by a mob: his pederasty was a terrible thing, similar to that fundamentalist Mormon creep who raped so many young girls recently, and is in jail for it. Smith was a con man who was one of many New England utopianists who started communes and utopian communities during the 1830s; his was the only one that succeeded. These sorts of groups ALWAYS involve weird sex, like the David Koresh group not long ago. The history of Joseph Smith's carryings on is widely available in all libraries, but I notice that Mormons themselves always deny it and in fact have carefully kept themselves away from it -- not faith-protective, I guess. No, reading about REAL Mormon history is definitely not faith-protective. If you want to believe in this stuff, you cannot learn the truth, and you carefully don't.

Fundamentalist Mormons are ALL polygamists because polygamy is absolutely central to Mormon scriptures. They view themselves as the "real" Mormons because of that; and they are right. The rest of you would be polygamists too except that federal troops moved into Salt Lake City in 1892 and put a stop to it, finally, after some six decades. The cruelty to women and very young girls this bad coercion and male supremacy involved and still involves makes it totally unacceptable to me and so I would never vote for a Mormon for president. I believe the Mormon Church wants a president so they can re-establish this evil custom and treat women like 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart was treated.

Romney could not KEEP polygamy going since it is not legal.

Well, I see I am dealing with some serious prejudice.

I have never entertained polygamy and recall the shock I felt when confronted by one male who disavowed my mainstream LDS church to say he believed we are wrong and his LDS is correct. And he believed in polygamy.

Now, if women want to be married that way, I don't object. I object to force used against humans for all purposes. Why would you object to any form of human freedom? This freedom does not extend to harming other humans. It's a two way street.

I am amazed you approve murder. I really hoped you did not.

If antybody raped peple either recently or long ago, jail is for that reason, to deprive them of freedom. Bear in mind prison takes away the most precious thing, freedom.

Joseph Smith was at no time some con man. The mob that killed him should have been punished. A law was passed by the Feds that for the first time outlawed polygamy. No troops had to be called since Mormons wanted Utah to be a state and we have a rule in our church, we always obey the laws of the land. Those you speak of are a fringe group who claim to be the true church. The fact they don't agree with the majority of Mormons must tell you something about my church, namely you are wrong.

You teach against the splinter groups, not my group.

I remind you that Joseph Smith perished well before the Civil War and there is no purpose for you to keep attacking him. Especially when you don't know the facts about the man.

When he married more than one woman, she had to be willing. She had to agree.

And such marriages were entirely legal. If you read the Bible, you can find many instances of the same thing.

I was baptized early in the 1950s and have never known any Mormon in my church that married more than one woman. I feel somewhat like you feel about the splinter groups that to this day use the name of my church but we don't believe what they do. Romney never believed in polygamy. You blame millions of people for acts of a couple thousand kooks.

I spoke in another post that I was stunned to see one guy working for my Uncle who believed in polygamy. I had never met any Mormon that believes in polygamy. I thought he was just joking until confirmed by some other guy in the crew I was in.

Smarts parents are Mormons. The man who kidnaped Elizsabeth is in prison. And rightfully so. This dumb idea the women in Smit's live were forced is play propaganda. Not a word of that is true. They were willing.

[tailfins]

Certainly the Romneys went to Mexico to keep polygamy going! It's well known and Romney himself has spoken about it. Colorado Creek and Bountiful, Canada are the two other sites they established for the same purpose, and both are polygamist right now. I bet you know this perfectly well.

I don't mind at all that Smith was killed by a mob: his pederasty was a terrible thing, similar to that fundamentalist Mormon creep who raped so many young girls recently, and is in jail for it. Smith was a con man who was one of many New England utopianists who started communes and utopian communities during the 1830s; his was the only one that succeeded. These sorts of groups ALWAYS involve weird sex, like the David Koresh group not long ago. The history of Joseph Smith's carryings on is widely available in all libraries, but I notice that Mormons themselves always deny it and in fact have carefully kept themselves away from it -- not faith-protective, I guess. No, reading about REAL Mormon history is definitely not faith-protective. If you want to believe in this stuff, you cannot learn the truth, and you carefully don't.

Fundamentalist Mormons are ALL polygamists because polygamy is absolutely central to Mormon scriptures. They view themselves as the "real" Mormons because of that; and they are right. The rest of you would be polygamists too except that federal troops moved into Salt Lake City in 1892 and put a stop to it, finally, after some six decades. The cruelty to women and very young girls this bad coercion and male supremacy involved and still involves makes it totally unacceptable to me and so I would never vote for a Mormon for president. I believe the Mormon Church wants a president so they can re-establish this evil custom and treat women like 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart was treated.


David Koresh was a mutation of the Seventh Day Adventists. The bottom line is this: You can't truly function in society by seriously disparaging someone's religion. I've been immersed in anti-Catholicism, like you have been immersed in anti-Mormonism or others anti-Islam. The bottom line is that the First Amendment protects them all. All these people were raised with a certain religion and they believe in it. At the end of the day, you either decide disparaging each others religions is acceptable which means if you dish it out, you had better be prepared to take it as well or you decide that its not and agree to stay off the topic. Being one-sided about it is being unreasonable.

[mundame]

David Koresh was a mutation of the Seventh Day Adventists. The bottom line is this: You can't truly function in society by seriously disparaging someone's religion. I've been immersed in anti-Catholicism, like you have been immersed in anti-Mormonism or others anti-Islam. The bottom line is that the First Amendment protects them all. All these people were raised with a certain religion and they believe in it. At the end of the day, you either decide disparaging each others religions is acceptable which means if you dish it out, you had better be prepared to take it as well or you decide that its not and agree to stay off the topic. Being one-sided about it is being unreasonable.


I can't agree. A lot of religions that surface in this sad world are evil. There is no use saying that Islam is a kind religion of peace!! Most of us here know it is a vicious, war-mongering religion and was that from the beginning. Mormonism took a lot from Islam, including the pederasty; Smith simply plagarized the Koran in his Book of Mormon that he pretended came from the Angel Moroni burying gold plates for pages of it, that he somehow lost and never could show anyone. Ho, boy. And people BELIEVE this stuff??? The violence that led Brigham Young to say explicitly that he meant to take over the entire western side of what is now the U.S. The cruel polygamy that married all girls 12 and up immediately to older men with seven or more wives and got rid of the excess males however they could, and however they can now.

There are many evil religions: the African animist religions that believe in witchcraft and torture and burn excess or AIDS orphan children for supposedly being "witches." Jehovah's Witnesses, who want to stop all holidays and many other things normal to our culture. Hari Krishna's, who lure and abduct confused young people into a chanting and begging lifestyle where that is all they do. Black Muslims with their strange robes and headdresses on the women and violent beliefs about killing whites.

Many early European heresies were violent and weird and cruel and deeply into wild sexual orgies. Anabaptists were one such, and the Little Brothers in northern Italy used religion to roam around killing everyone in the nobility and raping all the women and stealing everything. And what about Scientologists now? Something is very wrong with those people.

There is no use saying all religions are just fine and dandy! David Koresh MAY have originally been Seventh Day Aventist, but he was the usual charismatic cult leader who wanted to do sexual initiation of every young girl child in the group, and their parents allowed it! There are too many religions with weird beliefs and strange sexual stuff and a lot of coercion --- the fact that Mormons draft anybody they can find a name for into the Mormons after they are dead and can't defend themselves is AWFUL. And their showing up at the door all these years? That's so wrong. Scared me pretty bad one time, living out in the country, doorbell rang and I went there expecting the postman or someone buying chickens and it was two guys in black suits, startled me a lot! I slammed the door on them as soon as I figured out they were Mormons. That kind of behavior, coming around to people's houses to harangue them into some weird nutso religion, that is so wrong! It's impertinence; it's an imposition.

I guess you are right that we have to be reasonably tolerant, but I think before 9/11/2001 we were unreasonably tolerant. We didn't properly recognize the genuine evil that DOES exist in far too many religions and sects. They aren't all good, and it's crucial not to be tolerant to genuinely bad practices. Honor killings, polygamy, circumcisms male and female, female coercion, having to wear restrictive clothing or be killed or beaten, cutting off hands -- these are evil practices.

Let's don't be tolerant of evil.

[mundame]

I am amazed you approve murder. I really hoped you did not.



Okay. I think the law should be the normal process now.

I have no sympathy for Joseph Smith, however. If he didn't want the outraged people of Illinois to shoot him, he shouldn't have screwed so many dozens of their young maids and daughters.

More power to them, I say.

[Robert A Whit]

I can't agree. A lot of religions that surface in this sad world are evil. There is no use saying that Islam is a kind religion of peace!! Most of us here know it is a vicious, war-mongering religion and was that from the beginning. Mormonism took a lot from Islam, including the pederasty; Smith simply plagarized the Koran in his Book of Mormon that he pretended came from the Angel Moroni burying gold plates for pages of it, that he somehow lost and never could show anyone. Ho, boy. And people BELIEVE this stuff??? The violence that led Brigham Young to say explicitly that he meant to take over the entire western side of what is now the U.S. The cruel polygamy that married all girls 12 and up immediately to older men with seven or more wives and got rid of the excess males however they could, and however they can now.

There are many evil religions: the African animist religions that believe in witchcraft and torture and burn excess or AIDS orphan children for supposedly being "witches." Jehovah's Witnesses, who want to stop all holidays and many other things normal to our culture. Hari Krishna's, who lure and abduct confused young people into a chanting and begging lifestyle where that is all they do. Black Muslims with their strange robes and headdresses on the women and violent beliefs about killing whites.

Many early European heresies were violent and weird and cruel and deeply into wild sexual orgies. Anabaptists were one such, and the Little Brothers in northern Italy used religion to roam around killing everyone in the nobility and raping all the women and stealing everything. And what about Scientologists now? Something is very wrong with those people.

There is no use saying all religions are just fine and dandy! David Koresh MAY have originally been Seventh Day Aventist, but he was the usual charismatic cult leader who wanted to do sexual initiation of every young girl child in the group, and their parents allowed it! There are too many religions with weird beliefs and strange sexual stuff and a lot of coercion --- the fact that Mormons draft anybody they can find a name for into the Mormons after they are dead and can't defend themselves is AWFUL. And their showing up at the door all these years? That's so wrong. Scared me pretty bad one time, living out in the country, doorbell rang and I went there expecting the postman or someone buying chickens and it was two guys in black suits, startled me a lot! I slammed the door on them as soon as I figured out they were Mormons. That kind of behavior, coming around to people's houses to harangue them into some weird nutso religion, that is so wrong! It's impertinence; it's an imposition.

I guess you are right that we have to be reasonably tolerant, but I think before 9/11/2001 we were unreasonably tolerant. We didn't properly recognize the genuine evil that DOES exist in far too many religions and sects. They aren't all good, and it's crucial not to be tolerant to genuinely bad practices. Honor killings, polygamy, circumcisms male and female, female coercion, having to wear restrictive clothing or be killed or beaten, cutting off hands -- these are evil practices.

Let's don't be tolerant of evil.

You sound to me like you are one of those evangelists that gets run down all the time. Do you attend the church of that man that haunts funerals and speaks ill of homosexuals all the time?

For the record, Joseph Smith waz not evil. And I would love to see you prove he had heard of the Koran.

Why don't you want to learn how he actually was raised and what his religious background actually was?

[Robert A Whit]

Okay. I think the law should be the normal process now.

I have no sympathy for Joseph Smith, however. If he didn't want the outraged people of Illinois to shoot him, he shouldn't have screwed so many dozens of their young maids and daughters.

More power to them, I say.

Joseph Smith did no such thing.

[mundame]

You sound to me like you are one of those evangelists that gets run down all the time. Do you attend the church of that man that haunts funerals and speaks ill of homosexuals all the time?

For the record, Joseph Smith waz not evil. And I would love to see you prove he had heard of the Koran.

Why don't you want to learn how he actually was raised and what his religious background actually was?


I know a lot about Joseph Smith, who was a much-arrested con man who specialized in "buried treasure" cons, hence the "gold plates" that somehow had to be dug up, from the "Angel Moroni." He was well known to the court system in New England. You will never know anything about the real history of Mormonism if you just read Mormon propaganda, Robert. The actual history is readily available in many secular books, but I suppose you aren't allowed to read those. I studied New England Utopian societies of the early 1800s for awhile. Smith's new religion was a typical one, like the Oneidas and Amana and Shakers and so on, but his succeeded and the rest eventually died out. They were all about sex and control by a cult leader, as these sorts of groups always are, though the Shakers went an original way: they BANNED sex entirely, which certainly didn't help their survival.

It is well known Smith plagarized the Koran when he wrote the Book of Mormon --- he had to get it from somewhere! And it was hardly from an angel with gold plates. That's why the blood debt stuff and the polygamy and so on -- it came from the Koran.

Smith most certainly was evil -- his pederasty problem led to the whole group leaving Missouri for Illinois and he just got worse and worse and developed the idea that they should all be polygamists. He only told his "twelve disciples" about that early on and when he was killed by outraged citizens in Illinois after he really went wild with his pedophilia, his much-tried widow and some supporters tried to take over the group and put a stop to the polygamy thing. But Brigham Young, who was campaigning for Smith for president in New England, killed horses getting back to Illinois as fast as he could to take over and keep polygamy going. He loved it; he ended up with 30 to 70 "wives," a famous harem, when he got everyone to Utah. And of course there was the Mountain Meadow Massacre; they saved all the girl children from the murdered wagon train, of course, for polygamy. Somehow I think that was the worse part of it, killed their parents, forced the girls into polygamy. Brigham Young was as bad or worse than Joseph Smith, wildly sexually perverted and violent.

I have seen before that Mormons know essentially nothing of their actual history. You are taught nonsense and told never to look into it yourselves, I suppose. But the founding of the religion is too recent: all the records still exist and the history is easy. People couldn't believe this nonsense if they knew the history, so you carefully avoid reading the readily available histories.

I have no objection to regular non-polygamist Mormons, as long as they don't show up on my porch preaching at me!! Which is just wrong. I wouldn't do it to them, after all. Or abduct me into Mormonism after I die!! What a terrible thing to do. How can anyone think that is right? People go along all their lives as faithful Catholics or Jews or Protestants, and after they die these Mormons kidnap them and make them into Mormons? It sounds silly, but it's ------ it's a lot of gall. It's just MEAN. I hear they did it to Anne Frank! Darn.

Mormons are fine in their place, no doubt, but that place is not the White House. Too dangerous. It took federal troops to break them of that stuff in the 1890s; if they get enough political power, they are likely to start polygamy and who knows what all right back up again.

[tailfins]

I know a lot about Joseph Smith, who was a much-arrested con man who specialized in "buried treasure" cons, hence the "gold plates" that somehow had to be dug up, from the "Angel Moroni." He was well known to the court system in New England. You will never know anything about the real history of Mormonism if you just read Mormon propaganda, Robert. The actual history is readily available in many secular books, but I suppose you aren't allowed to read those. I studied New England Utopian societies of the early 1800s for awhile. Smith's new religion was a typical one, like the Oneidas and Amana and Shakers and so on, but his succeeded and the rest eventually died out. They were all about sex and control by a cult leader, as these sorts of groups always are, though the Shakers went an original way: they BANNED sex entirely, which certainly didn't help their survival.

It is well known Smith plagarized the Koran when he wrote the Book of Mormon --- he had to get it from somewhere! And it was hardly from an angel with gold plates. That's why the blood debt stuff and the polygamy and so on -- it came from the Koran.

Smith most certainly was evil -- his pederasty problem led to the whole group leaving Missouri for Illinois and he just got worse and worse and developed the idea that they should all be polygamists. He only told his "twelve disciples" about that early on and when he was killed by outraged citizens in Illinois after he really went wild with his pedophilia, his much-tried widow and some supporters tried to take over the group and put a stop to the polygamy thing. But Brigham Young, who was campaigning for Smith for president in New England, killed horses getting back to Illinois as fast as he could to take over and keep polygamy going. He loved it; he ended up with 30 to 70 "wives," a famous harem, when he got everyone to Utah. And of course there was the Mountain Meadow Massacre; they saved all the girl children from the murdered wagon train, of course, for polygamy. Somehow I think that was the worse part of it, killed their parents, forced the girls into polygamy. Brigham Young was as bad or worse than Joseph Smith, wildly sexually perverted and violent.

I have seen before that Mormons know essentially nothing of their actual history. You are taught nonsense and told never to look into it yourselves, I suppose. But the founding of the religion is too recent: all the records still exist and the history is easy. People couldn't believe this nonsense if they knew the history, so you carefully avoid reading the readily available histories.

I have no objection to regular non-polygamist Mormons, as long as they don't show up on my porch preaching at me!! Which is just wrong. I wouldn't do it to them, after all. Or abduct me into Mormonism after I die!! What a terrible thing to do. How can anyone think that is right? People go along all their lives as faithful Catholics or Jews or Protestants, and after they die these Mormons kidnap them and make them into Mormons? It sounds silly, but it's ------ it's a lot of gall. It's just MEAN. I hear they did it to Anne Frank! Darn.

Mormons are fine in their place, no doubt, but that place is not the White House. Too dangerous. It took federal troops to break them of that stuff in the 1890s; if they get enough political power, they are likely to start polygamy and who knows what all right back up again.


Whether they be Islamist, Mormon, Catholic, Buddhist, Athiest or any group that doesn't exclusively accept Jesus as their savior answers to the same boss: Lucifer. Scripture instructs us to be IN THE WORLD, but not of the world. That means we are commanded to treat them with a certain level of courtesy. The one group I cannot tolerate is occultists: They actively call demons into their presence.

While the Seventh Day Adventists seem to teach a saving doctrine, I worry about them because something about them is sheep-like. It's amazing how easily they are taken advantage of.

[Kathianne]

Praise the Lord! Thank you for the theologians you put here, right at DP! Hallelujah!

[tailfins]

Praise the Lord! Thank you for the theologians you put here, right at DP! Hallelujah!


I'm not a theologian; I just play one on DP (not TV).

[Kathianne]

I'm not a theologian; I just play one on DP (not TV).

Not well, but carry on.

[Robert A Whit]

I know a lot about Joseph Smith, who was a much-arrested con man who specialized in "buried treasure" cons, hence the "gold plates" that somehow had to be dug up, from the "Angel Moroni." He was well known to the court system in New England. You will never know anything about the real history of Mormonism if you just read Mormon propaganda, Robert. The actual history is readily available in many secular books, but I suppose you aren't allowed to read those. I studied New England Utopian societies of the early 1800s for awhile. Smith's new religion was a typical one, like the Oneidas and Amana and Shakers and so on, but his succeeded and the rest eventually died out. They were all about sex and control by a cult leader, as these sorts of groups always are, though the Shakers went an original way: they BANNED sex entirely, which certainly didn't help their survival.

It is well known Smith plagarized the Koran when he wrote the Book of Mormon --- he had to get it from somewhere! And it was hardly from an angel with gold plates. That's why the blood debt stuff and the polygamy and so on -- it came from the Koran.

Smith most certainly was evil -- his pederasty problem led to the whole group leaving Missouri for Illinois and he just got worse and worse and developed the idea that they should all be polygamists. He only told his "twelve disciples" about that early on and when he was killed by outraged citizens in Illinois after he really went wild with his pedophilia, his much-tried widow and some supporters tried to take over the group and put a stop to the polygamy thing. But Brigham Young, who was campaigning for Smith for president in New England, killed horses getting back to Illinois as fast as he could to take over and keep polygamy going. He loved it; he ended up with 30 to 70 "wives," a famous harem, when he got everyone to Utah. And of course there was the Mountain Meadow Massacre; they saved all the girl children from the murdered wagon train, of course, for polygamy. Somehow I think that was the worse part of it, killed their parents, forced the girls into polygamy. Brigham Young was as bad or worse than Joseph Smith, wildly sexually perverted and violent.

I have seen before that Mormons know essentially nothing of their actual history. You are taught nonsense and told never to look into it yourselves, I suppose. But the founding of the religion is too recent: all the records still exist and the history is easy. People couldn't believe this nonsense if they knew the history, so you carefully avoid reading the readily available histories.

I have no objection to regular non-polygamist Mormons, as long as they don't show up on my porch preaching at me!! Which is just wrong. I wouldn't do it to them, after all. Or abduct me into Mormonism after I die!! What a terrible thing to do. How can anyone think that is right? People go along all their lives as faithful Catholics or Jews or Protestants, and after they die these Mormons kidnap them and make them into Mormons? It sounds silly, but it's ------ it's a lot of gall. It's just MEAN. I hear they did it to Anne Frank! Darn.

Mormons are fine in their place, no doubt, but that place is not the White House. Too dangerous. It took federal troops to break them of that stuff in the 1890s; if they get enough political power, they are likely to start polygamy and who knows what all right back up again.

We are indeed supposed to study our history. We are supposed to investigate other churches.
My church does not have polygamy. I know the church once did. That is ancient history. Nobody can bring Joseph Smith nor Young to visit you. They both died long ago.

I go by what my church teaches today. Sorry. It is hard to recall when I read so much hate ooze out. Onto my computer screen of all places. It is easy to trash my religion for you but did you feel joy? Do you think you grew a few inches in my eyes?

I know you have not attended my church. Your bigotry proves it to me.

I must put this to rest. My church believes to join it, one must fully investigate. Look at any religon.

As to Smith knowing of the Koran, nonsense. His background as I recall was methodist. I plan to check on that.

You put far too much on polygamy. Back in those days, it was common for girls to marry a lot earlier.

It is most unfortunate you have calcium coating your heart. A hard heart is not easy to start beating again.

[Robert A Whit]

Mundame,

One value of history is he that commands history runs teh show.
And your books give you false history and thus you believe you run the show as to religions.

Supposedly Romney would run off and marry dozens of women but for the law. Romney's wife nor he were raised to marry over one person.

The thrust of your argument is that because Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had more than one wife, we Mormons of today just can't wait to marry many women.

My god.

Such nonsense. It is a non argument. It is like preaching that presidents of the USA believe today in owning slaves merely because G. Washington, Jefferson and about 10 other presidents once owned slaves.

It makes no sense to blast my church of today since it proved it follows the law of this country.

Andrew Jackson murdered indian tribes and deported many of them to the Oklahoma territory yet you don't blast presidents as you blast my church.

My flag, the flag of the USA flew over slavery and included it in the constitution.

Where is your bigotry against the USA for sins of the past?

[taft2012]

I think it demonstrates clearly what I've assumed from the beginning, that the Mormon Church controlled Romney entirely. He ran because they told him to, just as they also told his father to run.

He's a grown man, if he didn't want to run, why did he, you know? There had to be a reason. That reason would be his controlling church. They wanted a man in the White House. We're just as well off he didn't get there! I don't like Obama either, but I sure didn't want a Mormon there plotting how to get polygamy legalized again finally.

I think you're presuming a lot here. For starters, you're presuming Romney's son isn't just making a flailing attempt at a face-saving comment.

Neither did the Mormon church elect the senior Romney to the governorship of Michigan, nor the junior Romney to the governorship of Massachusetts. Nor did the church give Romney the GOP nomination.

If we're looking for culprits it would be the status-quo GOP insiders and their colleagues in the mainstream media, who have consistently done their damnedest to make sure another Reagan never again rises to prominence.

Since 1984, I haven't voted for the ultimate GOP nominee in the primaries, not once. Didn't vote for HW Bush in 1988 or 1992, didn't vote for Dole in 1996, didn't vote for GW Bush in 2000, didn't vote for McCain in 2008, and didn't vote for Romney in 2012. I'm not a raving lunatic, I'm a mainstream GOP conservative. I see deep problems, but Mormonism ain't one of 'em.

[mundame]

I think you're presuming a lot here. For starters, you're presuming Romney's son isn't just making a flailing attempt at a face-saving comment.

Neither did the Mormon church elect the senior Romney to the governorship of Michigan, nor the junior Romney to the governorship of Massachusetts. Nor did the church give Romney the GOP nomination.

If we're looking for culprits it would be the status-quo GOP insiders and their colleagues in the mainstream media, who have consistently done their damnedest to make sure another Reagan never again rises to prominence.

Since 1984, I haven't voted for the ultimate GOP nominee in the primaries, not once. Didn't vote for HW Bush in 1988 or 1992, didn't vote for Dole in 1996, didn't vote for GW Bush in 2000, didn't vote for McCain in 2008, and didn't vote for Romney in 2012. I'm not a raving lunatic, I'm a mainstream GOP conservative. I see deep problems, but Mormonism ain't one of 'em.


Okay, good post, IMO. You lost confidence in the system a lot before I did! I was a voting Republican sheeple till 2006 when the Iraq craziness and all the rest of it disheartened me. I changed my registration to Independent (the GOP still calls wanting money, though). And the elections in 2008 and 2012? Omigod. That was just LOW. I gave up on populist democracy They want me to vote, let 'em pick plausible candidates. I suppose everyone suffers by comparison with Ronald Reagan, but Palin? Darn! Obama? A Mormon? Darn. Time to try another political system, that's clear. Democracy wore out, at least this universal suffrage kind.

You make two claims about the comments by the many Romney sons. One, that it may be sheer face-saving. Maybe, but who does that? I've never heard a losing candidate say, "Oh, well, the grapes were sour anyway." They are claiming SOMEBODY, and they never name the somebody, caused Romney to run, overpersuaded him, whatever. And he didn't want to, hated it. (And I must say, I thought that from the beginning -- that guy didn't like the crowds he faced every day! You could see it in his face and his body language.)

Well, who could that be, assuming they aren't just making it up? There are only two candidates, right? The Republican professionals, or the Mormon Church. You think it was the Republican pros, saying, "You owe us, Romney, we helped you when you ran before and now we need a sacrificial lamb for a losing election, and YOU'RE IT." It's possible. It's perfectly possible, but the Romney boys are not saying that.

I think it was the Mormon hierarchy, because they do that: they've been doing it since Joseph Smith, who ran for president quite seriously, but got assassinated for his sins. Brigham Young was certainly "president" or dictator of his Utah flock and is known to have intended the Republic of Utah or Deseret to extend over entire western part of the continent. He died before he could make that happen. And then there was George Romney, who was knocked deliberately out of the race by the pros so he wouldn't stink it up with the religious issue, much like Herman Cain was knocked out of the race before Christmas so he wouldn't stink it up with all the illegal/illicit sex adventures he was into. And yeah, I think the Mormon Church, long-sighted like all churches, does manage governorships and support to get their guys in really implausible places: a Mormon Republican as governor of Massachusetts? It's crazy, but I suppose they thought it was the best positioning for a run for the White House. But he lost. But that's okay --- because every time they run someone for prez, that normalizes it a little more. Eventually they'll get someone in, and then we'll see some interesting changes......

Not good ones, I would bet.

The boys aren't saying who the somebody is who made Romney run. There are only two possibilities. It was either the Republican pros who needed a sacrificial lamb so their A-team would be saved for 2016, or it was the Mormon hierarchy, plotting a takeover of the American political system.

Or it's all phony. If Romney really didn't want to run, he shudda said no.

[Robert A Whit]

I think you're presuming a lot here. For starters, you're presuming Romney's son isn't just making a flailing attempt at a face-saving comment.

Neither did the Mormon church elect the senior Romney to the governorship of Michigan, nor the junior Romney to the governorship of Massachusetts. Nor did the church give Romney the GOP nomination.

If we're looking for culprits it would be the status-quo GOP insiders and their colleagues in the mainstream media, who have consistently done their damnedest to make sure another Reagan never again rises to prominence.

Since 1984, I haven't voted for the ultimate GOP nominee in the primaries, not once. Didn't vote for HW Bush in 1988 or 1992, didn't vote for Dole in 1996, didn't vote for GW Bush in 2000, didn't vote for McCain in 2008, and didn't vote for Romney in 2012. I'm not a raving lunatic, I'm a mainstream GOP conservative. I see deep problems, but Mormonism ain't one of 'em.


You and Mundame, to name two, elected Obama. Congratulations. Now you two deal with him.

[tailfins]

So things are trending towards a Mormon theocracy? Or is it Sharia Law? Or since Joseph Smith based Mormonism on the Koran, will Islam and Mormonism one day merge? I need a playbook to keep up with all these players. I say just accomplish as much as you can for your own life and don't let all these things that might happen drive you crazy.

[mundame]

Good advice, tailfins. ;)

[mundame]

You and Mundame, to name two, elected Obama. Congratulations. Now you two deal with him.


Nope. Nobody elects ANYONE by not voting for them. That's just silly. The only people who elected Obama are the ones who voted for him. Nobody else.

We didn't vote for Obama. Two billion Chinese didn't vote for Obama, either: are you claiming THEY elected Obama, somehow?? Sheeeeeeeeesh.

It is possible to be outside the political system, and I am, until these fools clean it up and present us with somebody plausible as a candidate, which God knows nobody has been for two elections. Leaving the political system in disgust is not the same as electing Obama, for Heaven's sake. VOTING is what elects people, but not voting never elected anyone, anywhere.

[tailfins]

Nope. Nobody elects ANYONE by not voting for them. That's just silly. The only people who elected Obama are the ones who voted for him. Nobody else.

We didn't vote for Obama. Two billion Chinese didn't vote for Obama, either: are you claiming THEY elected Obama, somehow?? Sheeeeeeeeesh.

It is possible to be outside the political system, and I am, until these fools clean it up and present us with somebody plausible as a candidate, which God knows nobody has been for two elections. Leaving the political system in disgust is not the same as electing Obama, for Heaven's sake. VOTING is what elects people, but not voting never elected anyone, anywhere.

Santa Claus was on the ballot in your state, you could have voted that way as a protest. I'm actually going to defend you here: You showed up and voted. You implicitly voted for "none of the above" for President. It's a shame you can't explicitly vote for "none of the above".

[mundame]

Santa Claus was on the ballot in your state, you could have voted that way as a protest. I'm actually going to defend you here: You showed up and voted. You implicitly voted for "none of the above" for President. It's a shame you can't explicitly vote for "none of the above".


Santa Claus? Darn. :rolleyes:

Okay. Good post.

[tailfins]

Santa Claus? Darn. :rolleyes:

Okay. Good post.

Here are the details:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/rosenwald-md/post/you-can-vote-for-santa-claus-in-md/2012/10/15/d15b0366-16d3-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html