Need help with son re: homework and grades

[jimnyc]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

[Voted4Reagan]

Contact the Teachers... have them fax over a copy every day what his homework entails and compare to what he hands you.

no video games till all is done

[tailfins]

I would make it a daily thing. It means you will need to inspect his homework. Verified homework will need to be a prerequisite for recreation on any given day. Weekend fun should stay "on hold" until Friday's homework is verified. You are not saying "no", just setting a precondition. Like the previous poster referred to, you may need a checklist from the school/teacher.

[Robert A Whit]

He may be bored Jim.

I can't say for sure, but he might be repeating stuff he should have learned before. And probably paid little attention to the last go round.

At his age, you might knuckle down and sit with him to keep him on the ball.

Kids will work harder if they can see what good it will do for them. Also, he may have a pal that gets top grades who might buddy up with him to get him on the right path.

Also, ask the school for help. Behavior is learned. And he has to unlearn bad habits. As to taking stuff away from him, given how lax you have been it may get him angry. I suggest you counsel with the school experts. Surely they will help you.

[jimnyc]

Contact the Teachers... have them fax over a copy every day what his homework entails and compare to what he hands you.

no video games till all is done

That was my initial thought, I need to know what his homework is every single day so that I can follow up with it. In the classes where he is not excelling, I would like to find out about how he can get extra help to get him caught up. Until he can show his grades have improved, he is down to extremely limited time of electronics. At the end of the 2nd marking period, we can revisit things if the grades reflect the fact that he has improved.

If I can somehow get him to actually TRY for one hour every day, really put his mind into doing the homework, and actually learning it, I would be happy. Right now it is obvious that he rushes through so much to get back to fun and games. He's a smart kid who skates through everything just enough to get by.

[jimnyc]

I would make it a daily thing. It means you will need to inspect his homework. Verified homework will need to be a prerequisite for recreation on any given day. Weekend fun should stay "on hold" until Friday's homework is verified. You are not saying "no", just setting a precondition. Like the previous poster referred to, you may need a checklist from the school/teacher.

I'm think this: right now his homework takes priority right after school and nothing else can be done until its done. He skips homework and rushes through what he does do to get to play time. I'm thinking of making 7:30 or 8pm homework time. It all gets done and all gets inspected by myself or the wifey. When satisfied it's done, it's shower time, maybe a few minutes of TV or his kindle for reading. But nothing after the homework to make him want to rush.

[Kathianne]

Don't 'blanket ban' what he likes, that removes the effectiveness. A one day 'ban' for lying? Yes, blanket ban for missing an assignment? No.

I agree with the previous two commentators after yours; Know his assignments and check his assignments, likely easy from school website. Unlike myself, you can probably figure out 7th grade math, even algebra or geometry. Check for novel readings, if not keeping up, suggest you read independently then discuss. I think you've more time than his mom? Check each teachers website for grades, missing assignments? Must be finished, with your checking before any other online stuff.

If he continues to act irresponsibly, many males at this age do; require he goes to teacher(s) for sign off on assignment notebook, for each class. Then you return for the same, each evening. You are saying that he completed all assignments they said were due. Few middle schoolers need this. Those few, most only for a few weeks, as the idea of having their teacher signing off on what they write in assignment notebook is quite not cool.

[Kathianne]

I'm think this: right now his homework takes priority right after school and nothing else can be done until its done. He skips homework and rushes through what he does do to get to play time. I'm thinking of making 7:30 or 8pm homework time. It all gets done and all gets inspected by myself or the wifey. When satisfied it's done, it's shower time, maybe a few minutes of TV or his kindle for reading. But nothing after the homework to make him want to rush.

7:30-8 is too late. The middle schooler is tired and if something challenges him, which I'm assuming you'd want, he's not fresh. The current plan is better, with a few adjustments.

[tailfins]

He may be bored Jim.

I can't say for sure, but he might be repeating stuff he should have learned before. And probably paid little attention to the last go round.

At his age, you might knuckle down and sit with him to keep him on the ball.

Kids will work harder if they can see what good it will do for them. Also, he may have a pal that gets top grades who might buddy up with him to get him on the right path.

Also, ask the school for help. Behavior is learned. And he has to unlearn bad habits. As to taking stuff away from him, given how lax you have been it may get him angry. I suggest you counsel with the school experts. Surely they will help you.

The telltale sign of that would be high test scores mixed with sloppy homework and minor behavior problems like staring out the window or goofing around during class time.

[jimnyc]

He may be bored Jim.

I can't say for sure, but he might be repeating stuff he should have learned before. And probably paid little attention to the last go round.

At his age, you might knuckle down and sit with him to keep him on the ball.

Kids will work harder if they can see what good it will do for them. Also, he may have a pal that gets top grades who might buddy up with him to get him on the right path.

Also, ask the school for help. Behavior is learned. And he has to unlearn bad habits. As to taking stuff away from him, given how lax you have been it may get him angry. I suggest you counsel with the school experts. Surely they will help you.

I want to meet with his teachers perhaps and find out about what extra help I can get him in the classes he isn't doing well in, see if maybe they can help get him up to part and acceptable grades. It's simply a matter of somehow getting him to TRY and actually apply himself, and giving his schooling a higher priority.

He doesn't have a ton of friends yet, at least not a lot he may hang out with after school. Hell, his friend Liam, all they do when they get together is play video games anyway. It's all about the digital crap these days and the kids no longer want to do much. I'm trying to get him to go after some activities, at school or outside, things that will get him out of the house and also maybe make some friends.

When I was younger, my parents issue was getting me IN the house as we were always out doing something with friends. These days we want our gets OUT so that they'll be more active.

I'm just afraid that I'm not doing enough, both in helping him excel, and helping him with better habits. He's only 12, he needs a figure that is going to not only tell him to do it, but also help him get there.

[jimnyc]

Don't 'blanket ban' what he likes, that removes the effectiveness. A one day 'ban' for lying? Yes, blanket ban for missing an assignment? No.

I agree with the previous two commentators after yours; Know his assignments and check his assignments, likely easy from school website. Unlike myself, you can probably figure out 7th grade math, even algebra or geometry. Check for novel readings, if not keeping up, suggest you read independently then discuss. I think you've more time than his mom? Check each teachers website for grades, missing assignments? Must be finished, with your checking before any other online stuff.

If he continues to act irresponsibly, many males at this age do; require he goes to teacher(s) for sign off on assignment notebook, for each class. Then you return for the same, each evening. You are saying that he completed all assignments they said were due. Few middle schoolers need this. Those few, most only for a few weeks, as the idea of having their teacher signing off on what they write in assignment notebook is quite not cool.

All good recommendations, Thanks, Kath!!

The one thing he is great at is reading. The kid reads about a book a week, and then has logs he has to fill out and what not. The wife got him into that and he sees it as fun.

For the rest, myself, the wife and teachers need to be on the same page, and make sure he is doing what is expected.

[Kathianne]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

Jim, this is in addition to my previous post. If this is 'new' this year, get a handle on it, now. Precursor to high school, seriously. So many kids that were labeled 'gifted' in grades 2-4, suddenly become problematic in middle school.

Read my previous post and if he's not in some sport on non-tech clubs, encourage he do so. For non-athletic kids, cross country is great! Even if they are 'slow', they are competing against themselves, not someone else. It's the improvement that counts.

[jimnyc]

7:30-8 is too late. The middle schooler is tired and if something challenges him, which I'm assuming you'd want, he's not fresh. The current plan is better, with a few adjustments.

What adjustments is the question. Have him still do homework first, but know what it is ahead of time, and set aside time afterwards to go over it with him? Certainly makes sense. This should leave only evenings free, and we can map out a plan about game time, reading, showering and the other stuff.


The telltale sign of that would be high test scores mixed with sloppy homework and minor behavior problems like staring out the window or goofing around during class time.

He does do better on tests than his homework and organization skills show. But the overall average still brings him down. He passes by doing this, but doesn't "learn" as much as he should. And I want to instill good habits and organization in him and make him learn that "just getting by" is the wrong way to go about things.

[jimnyc]

Jim, this is in addition to my previous post. If this is 'new' this year, get a handle on it, now. Precursor to high school, seriously. So many kids that were labeled 'gifted' in grades 2-4, suddenly become problematic in middle school.

Read my previous post and if he's not in some sport on non-tech clubs, encourage he do so. For non-athletic kids, cross country is great! Even if they are 'slow', they are competing against themselves, not someone else. It's the improvement that counts.

This is the first year we are seeing the homework issues and lack of organization skills. Coincidentally, the first year he has chosen not to get involved in various activities. He's chosen the electronic world over the real world.

I'd love to get him into a computer club if they have one. He loves computers and shows initiative in that to want to learn more. Maybe a reading club too. He just doesn't like sports too much for whatever reason. He was in karate for a few years at the Y but grew tired of it. Also baseball for 3 years but no longer cares for that either.

[Robert A Whit]

That was my initial thought, I need to know what his homework is every single day so that I can follow up with it. In the classes where he is not excelling, I would like to find out about how he can get extra help to get him caught up. Until he can show his grades have improved, he is down to extremely limited time of electronics. At the end of the 2nd marking period, we can revisit things if the grades reflect the fact that he has improved.

If I can somehow get him to actually TRY for one hour every day, really put his mind into doing the homework, and actually learning it, I would be happy. Right now it is obvious that he rushes through so much to get back to fun and games. He's a smart kid who skates through everything just enough to get by.

Since he loves to fart with his computer (Who am I to talk, lol) get the Khan Academy site and have him start using it.

I thinki and hope that his problem is he is bored.

[Kathianne]

I want to meet with his teachers perhaps and find out about what extra help I can get him in the classes he isn't doing well in, see if maybe they can help get him up to part and acceptable grades. It's simply a matter of somehow getting him to TRY and actually apply himself, and giving his schooling a higher priority.

He doesn't have a ton of friends yet, at least not a lot he may hang out with after school. Hell, his friend Liam, all they do when they get together is play video games anyway. It's all about the digital crap these days and the kids no longer want to do much. I'm trying to get him to go after some activities, at school or outside, things that will get him out of the house and also maybe make some friends.

When I was younger, my parents issue was getting me IN the house as we were always out doing something with friends. These days we want our gets OUT so that they'll be more active.

I'm just afraid that I'm not doing enough, both in helping him excel, and helping him with better habits. He's only 12, he needs a figure that is going to not only tell him to do it, but also help him get there.

Indeed, it's too easy and common for the kids to go into their 'own world' of fantasy or virtual friends. Not good. At the same time, banning them is also not likely to meet with success. However, you can make the child busy through most hours. That's the most one can do, when caught up in the problem.

[DragonStryk72]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

Well, in my instance, I was much into video games as well. Don't do what my dad did and make it adversarial. It just doesn't work, just like it didn't work for me. Basically, this was the routine: Electronics taken away til grades go up. Grades go up just enough. Electronics returned, things go back to normal, fighting ensues.

I would advise using positive reinforcement. He's a gamer, and video games operate on constant positive reinforcement. Seriously, that's video games in their most basic form, is to constantly be like "way to go!", and give you something shiny for it. OOH, wait, I have a video link on this, hold up a sec:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MuDLw1zIc94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Use gaming, don't fight it. Set up an achievement system, and unlocks for those achievements. As well, you could show him colleges such as Full Sail University, an accredited college for gaming pursuits, but of course, if you want to make your way in video games today, you have to study up, like with anything.

Also, there are games, both electronic and tabletop, that are both educational and fun. I mean, think about it, did you ever really want to do homework, or were you just trying to get through it so you could do other stuff and not get hassled, Jim? Your son is no different, and it doesn't take video games for kids to feel that way. We've felt that way since the invention of homework.

[Kathianne]

Well, in my instance, I was much into video games as well. Don't do what my dad did and make it adversarial. It just doesn't work, just like it didn't work for me. Basically, this was the routine: Electronics taken away til grades go up. Grades go up just enough. Electronics returned, things go back to normal, fighting ensues.

I would advise using positive reinforcement. He's a gamer, and video games operate on constant positive reinforcement. Seriously, that's video games in their most basic form, is to constantly be like "way to go!", and give you something shiny for it. OOH, wait, I have a video link on this, hold up a sec:

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MuDLw1zIc94" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Use gaming, don't fight it. Set up an achievement system, and unlocks for those achievements. As well, you could show him colleges such as Full Sail University, an accredited college for gaming pursuits, but of course, if you want to make your way in video games today, you have to study up, like with anything.

Also, there are games, both electronic and tabletop, that are both educational and fun. I mean, think about it, did you ever really want to do homework, or were you just trying to get through it so you could do other stuff and not get hassled, Jim? Your son is no different, and it doesn't take video games for kids to feel that way. We've felt that way since the invention of homework.

Yep, should be a day-to-day reward and punishment. Too long, loses it's effectiveness. Besides, the goal is more responsible behavior. That's a long term goal, with daily milestones.

[DragonStryk72]

Yep, should be a day-to-day reward and punishment. Too long, loses it's effectiveness. Besides, the goal is more responsible behavior. That's a long term goal, with daily milestones.

I like having a long-term goal that I'm aiming for, but with various short-term accomplishments. It keeps me focused on the end goal by reinforcing it along the way.

[Marcus Aurelius]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

sounds a lot like my son prior to his Asperger's diagnosis in 4th grade. His old school in NJ paid for the medical evaluation, and once we had an official diagnosis, his new school system here with me in PA (started here in 5th grade) worked with me to set up an IEP and it's been a God-send. He's made the Honor Roll ever since, and his social skills are continually improving.

If you'd like to discuss, PM me.

[Robert A Whit]

I like having a long-term goal that I'm aiming for, but with various short-term accomplishments. It keeps me focused on the end goal by reinforcing it along the way.

That is a very very good tactic.

All of us can improve our lives by setting long term goals and doing what you stated. I suggest monthly rewards for accomplishment.

To reach the top the salesman force in an office, I set my goal that was realistic yet took a lot of work. And if I did not meet the goal, no reward. When I reached the goal, something to satisfy myself would be what I got. Surprising results. Often the thing i would reward myself with was not very expensive. Also, this can include something for the loved ones. A reward that way won't seem selfish. If they know why they got the reward, they may help you stay on course.

Maybe Jim can try some variation of this idea for his son. He is creative enough to figure out something that might help him.

[Missileman]

My son is more interested in his electronics than anything else. He plays a lot of video games, but at least they aren't of the violence variety. Nonetheless, he is "addicted". Homework takes priority, but he rushes through everything in order to get to what he WANTS to do.

He got his progress report today for the second marking period and it's not too good. Mostly missing homework and not being organized.

He's a VERY smart kid and can do all of these things if he simply applied himself and took the time with his schoolwork/homework.

I am partly guilty too, as I allow him to get away with too many things, as I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes. Should I bar all of his electronics until his grades go up? Change up his routines? Right now, it's homework and such first when he gets home from school, and then he can have game time. But it's hard for me to tell if he is breezing through the things or not. Sometimes he says he has no homework, but how do I know if he is just saying that?

He's in 7th grade, and I want to get a handle on this before it snowballs into a bigger problem. He's not THAT bad, but bad enough to where I know he can do SO much better if he took his time and was organized. But part of me is afraid that if I take too much away from him or come down too harsh, that he'll be resentful instead of doing better in school. I don't think I have a choice at this point as his grades are more important than him being upset for a little while. Then when his grades improve we can find a middle ground of sorts.

But now I feel partly responsible for not pushing him harder and allowing him to have excess time for the things that are pulling him away from schoolwork.

You need to make what he WANTS to do a privilege that is earned by doing well on the reports. I would take those privileges away until there's improvement. Make it perfectly clear that whether he gets game time is entirely up to him. If he chooses to slack off, there will be consequences and that is a valuable lesson.

[jimnyc]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

Jim its your honor and your duty as the dad to be a bad guy when appropriate. I look back on the lessons my dad taught me with good spankings and admire him for the love he had for all his 11 children. I was mean as a snake and tough as nails ! He was never unfair and never gave me a spanking that I didn't ever so richly deserve. As far as studying he made such a big deal out of our getting good grades that we all pushed like hell to do so except me and my older brother Jessie. It was such a piece of cake we both were always a few years ahead in our school work. He was advanced 2 grades and they wanted to advance me 2 grades but decided not because of the fighting my older brother had went through when he was advanced. It was so very easy and we were so very lazy but for others it took dedication--I admire them much more.. like my older sister Judy that worked at it so very hard and succeeded
As long as you push your son to do better because you love him its the right path IMHO. Certainly so when he knows why you do it!! A father's love is unconquerable.. --Tyr

[Kathianne]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

I'd listen to what he's telling the counselor at school, at least for withdrawal of privileges. The careful thing is not too go overboard in anger and say, "You're off electronics for the rest of the week!" Unless it's Friday, good luck with that. However saying, "You didn't do your homework at agreed upon time," or "You didn't write down all of your assignments, so we had to hunt for them," Or "You rushed through these assignments and we know you can do better, finish up and you can read until 9, but no phone, no computer, no Ipad."

Action, reason and consequence all come in quick time frame.

Now if his allowance is a bigger deal, good plan.

[jimnyc]

I cut out the fighting and moved here if anyone wants to continue: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?38347-Moved-from-thread-re-homework-grades

[Kathianne]

Jim, I thank you for removing the problem posts, including my own. Just came across this, while reading all of Jacoby's 'letters to his son.' You certainly aren't the first, (i.e., everyone just about), to go through a trial with their beloved child. If you go to the link, you'll see this is the first, after 8 years of relatively 'no problems.' I've already noticed he stopped the yearly letters in 2009, probably due to son's reasonable request:

http://www.jeffjacoby.com/5262/where-did-our-sweet-boy-go


My beloved Caleb,


I used to think I had this fatherhood thing down pat. For your first five or six years, you were such a charming and lovable kid -- friendly, bright, cheerful, affectionate -- that I imagined Mama and I must be doing everything right. I figured we were natural born parents, the way other people are natural born pianists or natural born first basemen.


But then -- quite to my surprise -- the sweet and lively Caleb we were so pleased to take all the credit for was abducted by aliens and replaced with a sulky, sarcastic grouch we didn't recognize. Over the course of the past year, Mama and I have repeatedly found ourselves wondering: Who are you, and what have you done with our son?


OK, maybe that's putting it a little strongly. You're still a terrific child, and most of the time it's a joy to be your father. I'm delighted by your interests and enthusiasms, from your voracious reading to your strength as a swimmer. It's great that you're still innocent enough to enjoy a "Winnie the Pooh" movie, yet sophisticated enough to play chess and make up crossword puzzles.

I savor the moments we spend learning together. I like the fact that you still ask for a story almost every time we go for a walk.


Most wonderful of all this past year has been watching you get the hang of your new role as a big brother. When we adopted Micah a year ago, there was no way to know how you would react to the presence of a sibling. I can't tell you how happy it makes us to see what a devoted, generous brother you've become. I love how willingly you play with Micah and how readily you make him laugh -- and judging from his eagerness to be with you, he obviously loves it too.


But as splendid as you so often are, Caleb, you can also be quite awful. At times your manner is shockingly disrespectful. You mimic Mama and make faces when I scold you. You respond to criticism by laughing or rolling your eyes, or you mutter "Whatever" with all the disdain at your command. You get surly or angry and snap at us rudely -- you've even written poison-pencil notes and left them for us to find ("I hate you. You're a bad mother.") If I didn't know you had just turned 8, I'd think you were going on 14. Behavior like this I wasn't expecting till you hit adolescence. If this is the way you act in second grade, what are you going to be like in high school?


I wish I knew what was causing this acting out. Is it a subconscious reaction to the arrival of your brother? The bad influence of certain kids in school? An unavoidable symptom of belonging to the species homo sapiens? All three, I suppose. Especially the last. As one experienced mother -- mine -- likes to say, children don't have to be taught how to hit, bite, lie, sneak, or talk back. They have to be taught not to.


And that, I am realizing much more vividly than I used to, is easier said than done.


When I was your age, discipline consisted mostly of spanking and the threat of being spanked, and on the whole I'd say that my siblings and I turned out all right. But I've discovered that I really don't like hitting as a form of punishment -- lashing out in anger makes me feel like a bully, and it doesn't feel good to bully someone I love. I don't want you to grow up in fear, behaving well only because you're afraid of getting hurt if you don't. Nor do I want you to learn from my example that the way to express anger is to hurt someone else.


But Mama and I do want you to learn that bad behavior leads to bad consequences -- just as we often use incentives and rewards to teach you that good behavior leads to good consequences. So we cast about for more effective forms of discipline. When you insult a teacher or a babysitter, we make you write a letter of apology. When you act crudely at mealtime, we send you away from the table. For other offenses you've had to write punishment sentences, or lost the use of a toy, or been sent to bed 30 minutes early. Once, appalled to learn that you had punched and hurt a girl in your class, we invoked the "nuclear option" -- one week of not being allowed to read for pleasure. It felt sacrilegious to use reading in that way, but you haven't hit anyone since.


When I was 8, it was obvious to me that discipline fell hardest on the one being disciplined. Now that I'm the father of an 8-year-old, I know better. It's tough to be punished, but it's much tougher to punish wisely -- strongly enough to correct, gently enough to do no harm. You don't understand what I mean? Believe me, Caleb, one day you will.


All my love,
Papa

[jimnyc]

That was like reading a letter I wrote myself, only intelligently! :laugh:

[Kathianne]

That was like reading a letter I wrote myself, only intelligently! :laugh:

Indeed. Works for moms too, even when 'no longer going through the angst!' Trust me, do your best. That's all anyone can do. You'll all figure it out. When I can, I'll offer my 'teacherly advice,' lord knows I made many mistakes as a parent.

Good news is, with all of the mistakes, the kids are fine! LOL! All in loving relationships, gainfully employed, with the diplomas. LOL! Actually, if they were 18, I wouldn't be so hepped on the diplomas, though for them they needed.

Times have changed, even from 2004, when my youngest graduated hs.

[Robert A Whit]

Well Jim, though I did not provoke a fight, it sure came to me. But I too thank you for moving the fight to some other thread.

I think by now you got enough ideas to fill your Xmas stocking with good will.

Hope things work out for you and your son.

Note to all.

Do not pick a fight with me and you will NEVER be in one.

[tailfins]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.


The more stoic you are when laying down the law the better. There's no need to turn up the temperature. When my wife hands down a punishment she gets more of a fight than when I hand out a similar punishment. I'm more monotone and emotionless about it.

[jimnyc]

Well Jim, though I did not provoke a fight, it sure came to me. But I too thank you for moving the fight to some other thread.

I think by now you got enough ideas to fill your Xmas stocking with good will.

Hope things work out for you and your son.

Note to all.

Do not pick a fight with me and you will NEVER be in one.

Robert, this thread was cleaned up and the talk of fights moved. If you want to discuss that, please take it to that new thread.

[Kathianne]

The more stoic you are when laying down the law the better. There's no need to turn up the temperature. When my wife hands down a punishment she gets more of a fight than when I hand out a similar punishment. I'm more monotone and emotionless about it.

I think you are probably correct, especially with boys. State what they did, what the punishment is, be done. They get that.

[Kathianne]

Thank you guys/gals for all the great tips and advice. Sometimes I think we really know what it is we need to do, but it somehow becomes clearer when you hear it from others.

My wife has already made a weekly calendar spelling out what he "should" be doing and what is expected of him daily. His allowance to do what he wants will be based on how successful he's been in staying within the calendar. It's funny in a way, because he tells his counselor at school that he NEEDS someone to take the games away from him, to set limitations - but then when we, the parents, try to do that he loses his little mind like we are psychopathic parents! LOL I don't know why I feel so guilty at times about what is known in most part as "parenting". And I LOVE my Dad for the punishment and lessons I've learned the hard way. But now it's my turn and I have trouble being the bad guy, even though I know it's the right way and path.

There's something to what you posted here. Me? I'm not keen on corporal punishment, though I learned to administer to my youngest, via a pediatric psychiatrist. We 'started with restraint hold,' moved down to paddling.

Being me, I'd listen to 'the expert' rather than folks I knew and trusted on most things. That kid was out of control, from 2-12. Lots of reasons, none of which excuse the craziness of the behavior. I was lucky with the shrink, without it the kid likely would have been incarcerated by now. His behaviors were extreme.

Still I'd never advocate for corporal punishment, certainly not for above 4th grade.

Just keep in mind that kids will 'fight' any punishment, heck any rules; but that doesn't mean they don't want them, they know they need them. I've yet to see a 'thank you' to parents that gave kids unlimited freedom to mess up. Have seen countless of parents that 'knocked them sideways,' (I doubt that was absolute recall or at the very least, common). More still for 'parents that made the rules and consequences clear.'

So many criticize their parents for inconsistency and failure to care what they did, no matter how little they applied themselves or how bad their behaviors.

I guess the best idea is to keep in mind the last, when it 'bothers' you to be 'the bad guy.'

[jimnyc]

Not a bad start at change today. He stayed after school for 35 minutes with his teacher for extra help with Chinese. I am having him do this as well with Math and English too, at least till he's back on track. Chinese he really needs the help with. The other 2 are both listed as 70-79 range so far, and I know he can improve. His other classes are all between 80-100.

Once he came home it was straight to his desk to hit the books. He had a math sheet, an English sheet, 16 flash cards to be made - and reading which he does later. I stayed around in case he needed help and had to check off on all of his homework to make sure it's satisfactory. Every day will be like this, with time at school, and extra time beyond his HW at home to study as well. With his efforts will come his "free time" which will have been earned. I'm hoping he'll be happy with his improvement and encouragement - and then this process will get easier.

[Kathianne]

Not a bad start at change today. He stayed after school for 35 minutes with his teacher for extra help with Chinese. I am having him do this as well with Math and English too, at least till he's back on track. Chinese he really needs the help with. The other 2 are both listed as 70-79 range so far, and I know he can improve. His other classes are all between 80-100.

Once he came home it was straight to his desk to hit the books. He had a math sheet, an English sheet, 16 flash cards to be made - and reading which he does later. I stayed around in case he needed help and had to check off on all of his homework to make sure it's satisfactory. Every day will be like this, with time at school, and extra time beyond his HW at home to study as well. With his efforts will come his "free time" which will have been earned. I'm hoping he'll be happy with his improvement and encouragement - and then this process will get easier.

Great start! Now of course tomorrow starts winter break! LOL! Sigh for you. If you can, have him bring home books for break. Help him review a few past chapters in Chinese-perhaps giving you lessons. Same with math and English, but find the novel-tell him you want to 'catch up' to where he is. Then discuss. He'll appreciate that and really listen to his comments. Compliment whenever possible. Throw in a few 'not so honest as to incriminate', but honest stories of how he's 'ahead of where you were at his age. How proud of him you are.

Far more comes from compliments than criticisms. However, truly deserved criticisms are appreciated, especially when coupled with, "How advanced you really are, why mess up?"

The bolded above is very important, odds are he doesn't need you, that you care to be ready to drop whatever to be there? Priceless for him.

One word, give him a chance to decompress on coming home, maybe 15 minutes for a snack and some BS with you or mom. Then hit the books. The life of Middle schooler is not an easy one.

[jimnyc]

Great start! Now of course tomorrow starts winter break! LOL! Sigh for you. If you can, have him bring home books for break. Help him review a few past chapters in Chinese-perhaps giving you lessons. Same with math and English, but find the novel-tell him you want to 'catch up' to where he is. Then discuss. He'll appreciate that and really listen to his comments. Compliment whenever possible. Throw in a few 'not so honest as to incriminate', but honest stories of how he's 'ahead of where you were at his age. How proud of him you are.

Far more comes from compliments than criticisms. However, truly deserved criticisms are appreciated, especially when coupled with, "How advanced you really are, why mess up?"

The bolded above is very important, odds are he doesn't need you, that you care to be ready to drop whatever to be there? Priceless for him.

One word, give him a chance to decompress on coming home, maybe 15 minutes for a snack and some BS with you or mom. Then hit the books. The life of Middle schooler is not an easy one.

Bringing home the books is a good idea. I think he'll have HW time throughout, only it will be utilized for studying his troubling classes, and we will help of course. This should be easier as the days will be longer and he'll still have free time. I'm more than willing to help him every step of the way. I don't want to be intrusive, but at the same time give him the feeling that it's not so bad and that he's not alone.

[Kathianne]

Bringing home the books is a good idea. I think he'll have HW time throughout, only it will be utilized for studying his troubling classes, and we will help of course. This should be easier as the days will be longer and he'll still have free time. I'm more than willing to help him every step of the way. I don't want to be intrusive, but at the same time give him the feeling that it's not so bad and that he's not alone.

An idea, don't know how well it will work. Tell him you expect at least an hour to an hour and a half of study time each day, except for Christmas and New Years. Can he write out what he needs most work on? Tell him all things need to be reviewed, as if he were in high school, he'd likely be returning to 'mid-terms.' Concentrate on weak areas, but review all.

This is going to suck, but middle schoolers really are trying to be independent, while being shockingly self-aware of how much they need guidance and they want that from their parents. Sooo, if you or your wife or both can say, "Honey, this, this and this mom will review with." "This, this and this, I will." Better yet, allow him to teach each of you what he's learned. Picking up a bit of Chinese or reviewing "Pride and Prejudice" will not be a hardship and may bring you closer.

Don't forget to make time shortly after for a snowball fight or making cookies. Both the school work and what you follow up with will build the memories that he'll cherish. This could be his 'Christmas of awakening.'

[jimnyc]

All excellent ideas, Kath. It means a lot to me. There are times I feel so totally lost on the issue. This is my first and only, and likely last, so I'm hoping to steer him right!

[PostmodernProphet]

I am a horrible disciplinarian and feel guilty about taking things away that he likes.

you don't need help......you've already identified the problem.....

[aboutime]

I'm think this: right now his homework takes priority right after school and nothing else can be done until its done. He skips homework and rushes through what he does do to get to play time. I'm thinking of making 7:30 or 8pm homework time. It all gets done and all gets inspected by myself or the wifey. When satisfied it's done, it's shower time, maybe a few minutes of TV or his kindle for reading. But nothing after the homework to make him want to rush.


jimnyc. Personally. Since I was away, or overseas while our two son's grew up, and became teenagers. My wife had the bulk of the parenting as Both Father, and Mother.

Of course. Our son's grew up PRIOR to all of the electronic devices of today. But she made certain, during the school year. They did their homework when they got home, and before dinner since the school day's were long, and they were tired if they waited too long.
As for your son and his video games.
That decision should be yours, NOT HIS. As his Dad. You make the decisions for him. Not the other way around.
If you want to be just friends with your son. That is not the same as being a Father.
Respect for you comes from his need to look to you to make the choices he isn't prepared to always make.
Kids of all ages prefer the easy way out. And that doesn't include doing homework.

Obviously. I would suggest you be in contact with his teachers. Maybe there is something holding him down, and they should be able to help you with that.

I remember how my father demanded...when I had so many problems with Math...like the TIMES TABLES. He made me WRITE....longhand...all of them from 1 times 1 thru 12 times 12...and all of that was before being able to watch any tv...and that was the late 50's, and early 60's.
I know it was long ago. But I can still remember those YELLOW LEGAL PADS with all of my writing on them. And I did learn.

Be more of a GOOD DAD, and don't worry about being his friend. That is only a threat to you if you both Don't Love Each Other.

[Kathianne]

Not just for Jim. I've taught middle school for 11 years. High school only part-time for two years, but subbing mainly for 3.

I'm ready to move onto high school if I can find a position, mostly due to subject matter interest, yes, I like the age. High school students for teachers are for the most part, 'content orientated.' They want what you can teach or they don't. They aren't in the main looking for 'mom' or 'dad', they are pretty autonomous, at least from 10th grade. Oh, there are always a few, but they are few.

Middle school? Yes, one needs to know their subject area, which is why it's 'secondary education.' However, for the main, it's teaching the student how to learn and cope with what's coming. When I teach Constitution at middle school, it's about responsibility and independence. At the high school level it becomes civics and philosophy.

While I do like high school students, I really do. I love middle school students! Unlike their parents, we don't have the issues of 'pulling away,' while still being, 'needy.' No, middle school students for the most part see their teachers as 'getting them,' in a way they think their parents fail to, at least to a degree. They see 'us' as willing to let them take responsibility, but nailing them when the are irresponsible. It's much easier as a teacher, we've a grade book. ;)

However, we've also go rubrics and 'corrections.' If your kid is a behavior issue, they will not catch all the breaks a kid with manners and ability to say, "I screwed up," will get. Believe it or not, the kids get this, the parents should also and encourage good manners and the owning up to responsibility. They go a long way. Most importantly, once mastered, the child is well on their way to being high school ready.

In short, I love middle school students. I like the content taught. I like high school students, I appreciate their independence. I find the teaching more exciting. In middle school the teaching is secondary to the child. In high school, the content is the primary issue, the students in the main are in the main psychologically ready.

[Kathianne]

jimnyc. Personally. Since I was away, or overseas while our two son's grew up, and became teenagers. My wife had the bulk of the parenting as Both Father, and Mother.

Of course. Our son's grew up PRIOR to all of the electronic devices of today. But she made certain, during the school year. They did their homework when they got home, and before dinner since the school day's were long, and they were tired if they waited too long.
As for your son and his video games.
That decision should be yours, NOT HIS. As his Dad. You make the decisions for him. Not the other way around.
If you want to be just friends with your son. That is not the same as being a Father.
Respect for you comes from his need to look to you to make the choices he isn't prepared to always make.
Kids of all ages prefer the easy way out. And that doesn't include doing homework.

Obviously. I would suggest you be in contact with his teachers. Maybe there is something holding him down, and they should be able to help you with that.

I remember how my father demanded...when I had so many problems with Math...like the TIMES TABLES. He made me WRITE....longhand...all of them from 1 times 1 thru 12 times 12...and all of that was before being able to watch any tv...and that was the late 50's, and early 60's.
I know it was long ago. But I can still remember those YELLOW LEGAL PADS with all of my writing on them. And I did learn.

Be more of a GOOD DAD, and don't worry about being his friend. That is only a threat to you if you both Don't Love Each Other.

I'm math phobic, have been since 4th grade. With that said, if there was one thing to say to 'young parents,' make sure your children have down rote: multiplication tables, addition and subtraction tables. Chemical tables (http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-memorize-the-periodic-table), basic grammar rules (http://www.whitesmoke.com/grammar-rules). Some suggestions: 'I used with my kids', in an audio tape form: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/rap-facts-multiplication/id200597387

[Robert A Whit]

Robert, this thread was cleaned up and the talk of fights moved. If you want to discuss that, please take it to that new thread.

Thank you Jim. I assure you that I know that. And if I wanted to engage in fights, I would take it elsewhere.

[Kathianne]

What adjustments is the question. Have him still do homework first, but know what it is ahead of time, and set aside time afterwards to go over it with him? Certainly makes sense. This should leave only evenings free, and we can map out a plan about game time, reading, showering and the other stuff.



He does do better on tests than his homework and organization skills show. But the overall average still brings him down. He passes by doing this, but doesn't "learn" as much as he should. And I want to instill good habits and organization in him and make him learn that "just getting by" is the wrong way to go about things.

this was me in high school. I truly regret what I could have learned. Yes, for the most part I've 'caught up' on my own, but how much further I could have been?

To the top, seems to me that when he gets home, be it 3:30 or 6:30, he needs decompressing. All kids do. 15 minutes if 3:30; Dinner and 15 if 6:30. Then homework until finished, for most kids that should be within eyes of parents, meaning kitchen or dining room table.

Supplies should be close at hand: poster boards in various colors, markers, pens, pencils, colored pencils, glue stick, calculator, dictionary, thesaurus, graph paper; etc. Parents should know the website of children's homework, whether or not the texts are online, most are.

[Robert A Whit]

Robert, this thread was cleaned up and the talk of fights moved. If you want to discuss that, please take it to that new thread.

Jim, what you just said got me to thinking of something of use to you.

Try that on your son. Think what just took place. And how you handled it. Try it with the kid.

[Robert A Whit]

Not a bad start at change today. He stayed after school for 35 minutes with his teacher for extra help with Chinese. I am having him do this as well with Math and English too, at least till he's back on track. Chinese he really needs the help with. The other 2 are both listed as 70-79 range so far, and I know he can improve. His other classes are all between 80-100.

Once he came home it was straight to his desk to hit the books. He had a math sheet, an English sheet, 16 flash cards to be made - and reading which he does later. I stayed around in case he needed help and had to check off on all of his homework to make sure it's satisfactory. Every day will be like this, with time at school, and extra time beyond his HW at home to study as well. With his efforts will come his "free time" which will have been earned. I'm hoping he'll be happy with his improvement and encouragement - and then this process will get easier.

Why does he want to learn chinese? Gosh, I need help too. LOL No, actually I once started to learn to read chinese and that did not last long.

Did you show him the Khan Academy site? I showed it to my grandson and he really likes it.

[jimnyc]

Jim, what you just said got me to thinking of something of use to you.

Try that on your son. Think what just took place. And how you handled it. Try it with the kid.

I do, I try to treat him like a gentleman all the time, like a friend. Problem is, sometimes I forget when I need to turn that off and go from being friend to being Dad. I do think the lad takes advantage of Dad being a pushover!


Why does he want to learn chinese? Gosh, I need help too. LOL No, actually I once started to learn to read chinese and that did not last long.

Did you show him the Khan Academy site? I showed it to my grandson and he really likes it.

I don't know, I would have pushed for Spanish or Italian, but for whatever reason this is what he chooses. I'll have to monitor the rest of the year and see if this is something he can grasp, or should we think about a different language next year. I believe it's too late to do anything this year. When I was in 9th grade I started in French. I hated it and was getting bad grades. I switched to Spanish and got straight A's with a B or 2 mixed in. Chinese is very difficult to understand, or so I'm told.

[Kathianne]

I do, I try to treat him like a gentleman all the time, like a friend. Problem is, sometimes I forget when I need to turn that off and go from being friend to being Dad. I do think the lad takes advantage of Dad being a pushover!



I don't know, I would have pushed for Spanish or Italian, but for whatever reason this is what he chooses. I'll have to monitor the rest of the year and see if this is something he can grasp, or should we think about a different language next year. I believe it's too late to do anything this year. When I was in 9th grade I started in French. I hated it and was getting bad grades. I switched to Spanish and got straight A's with a B or 2 mixed in. Chinese is very difficult to understand, or so I'm told.

Parents are not friends, they are parents. Funny thing, usually this is an issue with mothers and daughters. Men tend to get nearly from the get go, they can't be 'friends' with their children, until age 25 for the most part. They are the role model and the enforcer.

[jimnyc]

Parents are not friends, they are parents. Funny thing, usually this is an issue with mothers and daughters. Men tend to get nearly from the get go, they can't be 'friends' with their children, until age 25 for the most part. They are the role model and the enforcer.

Yeah, I admit I'm a wuss about things. Now don't get me wrong, he likes karate, and wrestling, and hammering the heavy bag I have. I try my best to teach him the "manly" things and what is right and wrong... But discipline and direction, I know, are very important. And I need to get over my guilt and feelings and just do what I know is best for him. That's what sucks, ya take the easy way out on them and give them leniency, and sometimes that's actually hurting. I'm learning though. :beer:

[Kathianne]

Yeah, I admit I'm a wuss about things. Now don't get me wrong, he likes karate, and wrestling, and hammering the heavy bag I have. I try my best to teach him the "manly" things and what is right and wrong... But discipline and direction, I know, are very important. And I need to get over my guilt and feelings and just do what I know is best for him. That's what sucks, ya take the easy way out on them and give them leniency, and sometimes that's actually hurting. I'm learning though. :beer:

I think this is much more common with onlies. Too with a stay at home dad for the most part. Remember why you stayed at home, gird the loins. LOL! You are his role model. He's looking to you and your time to 'grow' is short now. He's going to eclipse.

Not being negative, just realistic.

[Kathianne]

Yeah, I admit I'm a wuss about things. Now don't get me wrong, he likes karate, and wrestling, and hammering the heavy bag I have. I try my best to teach him the "manly" things and what is right and wrong... But discipline and direction, I know, are very important. And I need to get over my guilt and feelings and just do what I know is best for him. That's what sucks, ya take the easy way out on them and give them leniency, and sometimes that's actually hurting. I'm learning though. :beer:

Wow, after addressing this one way, my teacher self. Got to say there is a second, more important note to take. While not 'friends' in the sense of his real friends, he is always going to look toward you for right and wrong, which seriously includes karate and wrestling. It also includes how you act towards his mom and women in general.

In that past week or so, you've shared your feelings, vulnerabilities, regarding your mom. Does your son understand those feelings? It's not weakness, but an innate respect for what was given to you. That doesn't preclude her problems, but weighing the pros and cons? Help the boy gain perspective.

Moms can be too demanding or too easy, but that doesn't mean they don't care. Same with dad.

[Robert A Whit]

I don't know, I would have pushed for Spanish or Italian, but for whatever reason this is what he chooses. I'll have to monitor the rest of the year and see if this is something he can grasp, or should we think about a different language next year. I believe it's too late to do anything this year. When I was in 9th grade I started in French. I hated it and was getting bad grades. I switched to Spanish and got straight A's with a B or 2 mixed in. Chinese is very difficult to understand, or so I'm told.

Did you show him the Khan Academy site. It is free and it might help him with his homework.

My grandson loves it.

You will really need to explore the site. Maybe he will want to do it.

http://www.khanacademy.org/