Bloomberg demands national anti-gun legislation after CT mass shooting

[Little-Acorn]

The usual nonsense (again) from the usual big-government fanatic.

-----------------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ny-mayor-bloomberg-slams-obama-guns-immediate-action-214800682--politics.html

NYC Mayor Bloomberg slams Obama on guns: ‘We need immediate action’

by Beth Fouhy | The Ticket – 2 hrs 45 mins ago.. .

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg had tough words for President Barack Obama on Friday after Obama's emotional call for "meaningful action" in the wake of a mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Bloomberg, a longtime gun control advocate, released a statement through Mayors Against Illegal Guns, an advocacy group he co-founded with Boston Mayor Thomas Menino.

"President Obama rightly sent his heartfelt condolences to the families in Newtown. But the country needs him to send a bill to Congress to fix this problem," Bloomberg said.

[Little-Acorn]

Sigh.

Why do these naive big-govt fanatics always believe that passing a law will solve these problems?

Mr. Bloomberg, THERE WAS ALREADY A LAW against shooting 20 kindergartners in a classroom. That was already illegal, OK?

THE LAW DIDN'T STOP THIS GUY.

Why do you think passing another law, will?

Gawd, we have to point this out time and again to these idiots. And then the next time it happens, they start right in again, announcing we have to pass another law to fix it.

Sigh....

[aboutime]

This is all so, so.....PREDICTABLE. It happens every time there is a shooting, anywhere in the nation that gets national attention...and it gives POLITICIANS THE ANTI-GUN SOAPBOX...made of BULLSHIT.

[April15]

yes it is kinda dumb considering that in China a guy used a knife in a similar attack scenario.

China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64759000/gif/_64759542_china_henan_1212.gif
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910#story_continues_1) Related Stories

Man held over China school attack (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10862175)
China concern over school attacks (http://www.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8653827.stm)


A man with a knife has wounded 22 children - at least two of them seriously - and an adult at a primary school in central China.
The attack happened at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province.
Police arrested a 36-year-old local man at the scene.
Security at China's schools has been increased in recent years following a spate of similar knife attacks in which nearly 20 children have been killed.
The BBC's John Sudworth in Shanghai says many of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men, prompting a debate about the effects of China's recent, rapid social change and the inability of an antiquated hospital system to cope with rising levels of mental illness.

[Drummond]

This is all so, so.....PREDICTABLE. It happens every time there is a shooting, anywhere in the nation that gets national attention...and it gives POLITICIANS THE ANTI-GUN SOAPBOX...made of BULLSHIT.

Same here, in the UK ... sort of ...

Even if the social environment is different, the SAME nature of problem persists. The UK has some of the toughest gun ownership laws on the planet - NO 'right to bear arms' is written into our system, here - but, we still see the same phenomenon regardless.

If that doesn't prove that prohibitive gun laws definitely aren't the solution, I don't know what does. See ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248302/Sandy-Hook-elementary-shooting-Will-latest-massacre-finally-prompt-tightening-gun-laws-like-Dunblane.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490


Today's shooting that left dozens dead at an elementary school in Connecticut brings back chilling memories of Britain's worst school massace, Dunblane.

Sixteen children and their teacher, Gwen Mayor, were killed on March 13, 1996 when misfit loner Thomas Hamilton burst into Dunblane Primary School gym and opened fire.

The former Scout leader fired at random in the school's gym before turning the gun on himself.

The world looked on in horror as details of the bloody massacre in Scotland unfolded.

Andy Murray, the British tennis player, was a pupil at the Dunblane school at the time of the shootings.

He has described hiding under the table in his classroom during the attack. It prompted outrage from around the world, including from the Queen and then Prime Minister John Major, who called it a 'sick and evil act'.

'I find it difficult to express the feelings I know will be felt throughout Dunblane,' said the Scottish Secretary, Michael Forsyth, who represented Dunblane.

'This is a close-knit community where everyone knows everyone else and the impact of this horrible tragedy will be felt in every household.'

The year after the massacre Tony Blair introduced the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 which banned the remaining handguns in England, Scotland and Wales, and left only some historic and sporting handguns legal.

Like in the UK, today's shooting in Connecticut is likely to reignite the debate surrounding the purchase of firearms in the U.S.

So, Blair made his intended ban law (an extremely draconian one, by American standards .. and CAN your legislators hope to go as far ?). But, did that fix the problem ? Did it stop further gun outrages ?

... well ... fast forward to 2010, and ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7798513/Cumbria-shootings-gunman-Derrick-Bird-kills-12-then-shoots-himself.html


Derrick Bird, a taxi driver, drove down the west coast in a three and a half-hour rampage blasting passers-by at random.

Some reports suggested he had beckoned victims over to his car before shooting them at point blank range, while other witnesses described seeing Bird driving down the road pointing his gun out of the window.

Armed with two weapons - a .22 rifle and a shotgun - Bird drove down the coast from Whitehaven where the first attacks took place, leaving a trail of carnage in his wake.

Residents of the county were warned to stay indoors as police followed the deadly route, discovering more bodies as they went. At one point Bird abandoned his Citroen Picasso for another car which he then crashed near woods in the picturesque Lake District town of Boot. The body of Bird, a 52 year-old divorced father-of-two, together with his guns were found nearby.

Throughout the afternoon witnesses came forward with harrowing tales of the trail of destruction left by Bird.

In addition to two people in Whitehaven - one of whom as named locally as Darren Rewcastle -, other victims are believed to included Garry Purdham, a farmer working in a field alongside a road where the killer passed, a woman out shopping and a man in Egrement crossing a bridge. Reports suggest a door-to-door salesman, a cyclist, a pub landlord were also hit.

Witnesses described how some victims were shot multiple times as they tried to flee. A number of the dead were said to have been shot in the head at point blank range.

Police said they were struggling to cope with the scale of the crime.

Detective Constable Stuart Hyde said officers are examining 30 crime scenes.

Blair's law was on the statute books for over a decade. It did NOT stop Bird from slaughtering people. The problem cannot be solved with stringent gun restrictions ... the weapons are not the problem. It's the people using them.

[mundame]

Yes, Drummond, and there was that guy in Scotland in 1996 who killed so many kindergarteners, 24 IIRC.

No, it's not the laws; obviously we've got plenty of laws -- Britain just frankly disarms everyone (except criminals, who get lots of guns smuggled in from Serbia, I read) and makes laws even against defending oneself with a stick, but that hasn't really worked out well.

Here we have laws against selling guns to crazy people, but has that EVER stopped anyone at all? All crazy people get guns readily if they want to do a school shooting; underage boys and felons, too. I mean, great idea, don't sell guns to crazies, but Cho in 2007 at Virginia Tech was as crazy as they come and he got guns readily because no one reported him as crazy. And the same with the acute schizophrenic who shot the congresswoman in Arizona -- so crazy he couldn't even speak plain, but no one labeled him as such, so he bought guns and used them in a mass shooting.

Security: schools are sad fortresses now, like our airports --- none of it (not airport TSA gropers nor school security like the school in Connecticut had or metal detectors) have ever stopped any of these attacks by crazies. I mean, they aren't THAT crazy: they can easily get around it all.

There is nothing we can do about this. There are fashions in crime and in psychosis -- crazies really did think they were Napoleon in the 19th century, but they don't do that now. Now they do school shootings. We just have to wait till it burns itself out and changes to something else.

[aboutime]

This kind of reaction from the BloomingIdiot Bloomburg reminded me of the RAHM EMANUELL advice he gave to Obama. As in....


"Never let a good CRISIS go to waste!"

That is exactly what BloomingIdiot is doing, in Fine Obama Traditional Stupidity.

[jafar00]

yes it is kinda dumb considering that in China a guy used a knife in a similar attack scenario.


The difference is that if the guy had a gun instead of a knife, there would be 22 dead children instead of 22 wounded children.

[aboutime]

The difference is that if the guy had a gun instead of a knife, there would be 22 dead children instead of 22 wounded children.


Typical DEFENSIVE MODE from jafar. Seemingly excusing the differences to appease his own sickness. Guns or knives make no difference. SICK PEOPLE with no respect for others. Who have no personal responsibility, or remorse. KILL or WOUND, or BEHEAD other human beings. And YOU jafar. Defend that kind of action. But haven't got the courage to admit..you support Hamas for doing the very same thing that murderer did in CT yesterday.
Prove me wrong!

[taft2012]

The difference is that if the guy had a gun instead of a knife, there would be 22 dead children instead of 22 wounded children.

No, this is a recurring problem in China. In 2010 the toll from these school-based knife attacks was 20 killed with more than 90 wounded.

The problem? When government is in total charge of the health care system the very first thing they cut back on is mental health treatment. Mental health treatment is virtually non-existent in China. You can expect Obamacare to do the same here in the USA.

Things should get really fun when our loonies are taken off their meds.

By then, though, we'll be blaming knives. Blaming anything other than Obamacare.

[Drummond]

The difference is that if the guy had a gun instead of a knife, there would be 22 dead children instead of 22 wounded children.

... this, from someone content to support a terrorist organisation ???

OK, Jafar, why not bring your knowledge of those you support to bear, and imagine for us the outcome of a successful rocket strike courtesy of Hamas ?

But then, Aboutime makes the case altogether better than I'm doing ...

[taft2012]

Meanwhile, as far as my boss here in NYC is concerned, he should expend more energy pressuring the District Attorneys to prosecute illegal gun possession charges here. We're taking illegal handguns off of the streets everyday, and unless there's a body attached to the gun, nothing happens.

Instead of asking for more gun control, Bloomberg should use the control he already has.

[aboutime]

Meanwhile, as far as my boss here in NYC is concerned, he should expend more energy pressuring the District Attorneys to prosecute illegal gun possession charges here. We're taking illegal handguns off of the streets everyday, and unless there's a body attached to the gun, nothing happens.

Instead of asking for more gun control, Bloomberg should use the control he already has.


taft. Isn't the Penalty for having a 16 Ounce Coke higher in New York City, than for carrying a hidden Weapon??

In other words. In the BLOOMINGIDIOT world of Bloomburg. Your punishment for drinking TOO MUCH SUGAR is worse than Biting a Bullet.

[Robert A Whit]

Sigh.

Why do these naive big-govt fanatics always believe that passing a law will solve these problems?

Mr. Bloomberg, THERE WAS ALREADY A LAW against shooting 20 kindergartners in a classroom. That was already illegal, OK?

THE LAW DIDN'T STOP THIS GUY.

Why do you think passing another law, will?

Gawd, we have to point this out time and again to these idiots. And then the next time it happens, they start right in again, announcing we have to pass another law to fix it.

Sigh....

Well said. But he refuses to learn simple truths.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well said. But he refuses to learn simple truths.

What the scum is doing is using this senseless tragedy to advance his anti-gun agenda, a globalist agenda by the way. Which is fascist thinking. Also liberal thinking.. Make all citizens dependent on government for everything. Government then has absolute power-- the goal!! They are Nazi's IMHO.. -Tyr

[logroller]

No, this is a recurring problem in China. In 2010 the toll from these school-based knife attacks was 20 killed with more than 90 wounded.

The problem? When government is in total charge of the health care system the very first thing they cut back on is mental health treatment. Mental health treatment is virtually non-existent in China. You can expect Obamacare to do the same here in the USA.

Things should get really fun when our loonies are taken off their meds.

By then, though, we'll be blaming knives. Blaming anything other than Obamacare.
Ronald Reagan cut mental health funding more than Obama has. But who's to blame isn't a solution.

[Kathianne]

Ronald Reagan cut mental health funding more than Obama has. But who's to blame isn't a solution.

One will find that the cuts in mental health spending, i.e., mental health facilities, that housed those considered 'mentally ill,' coincides with the increased spending for 'best education for each student' and IEP's.

The 60's, 70's, and 80's were all about 'addressing needs,' not medicating without consent, and not warehousing the mentally ill. They had their 'rights.' Problem is that those over 18 often are so mentally ill, that their judgment is impaired. But at least the 'nightmare' state sanatoriums were closed. Great savings on mental health, but private costs would skyrocket, along with education costs.

It transformed education costs, leading to truly unsustainable costs. Some was good, much was really, really wrong.

The 'reform movement' not only effected the 'insane' adults, but also those with mental retardation and other afflictions. They usually ended up either with family or in 'sheltered living' arrangements. Indeed for many of these, that was not just a step up, but a rocket out of hell.

There was a history of people abusing their rich relatives by having them declared 'insane' and throwing them in institutions and taking their wealth. Can't help but agree that making that much more difficult was a good thing.

However, to protect those, the laws were written that made it near impossible for family to get a dangerous member committed for more than a week to 10 days, without the mentally ill person's agreement. Funny thing, most mentally ill don't know it or would rather claim that the meds were making them act crazy.

Without commitment, the mentally ill quit the meds that had been forced upon them. They descended into their personal world; some violent, most not. Nearly all incapable of making choices that would lead to active participation in society.

The fault wasn't Reagan's, it was well-meaning reformists. That he as governor took measures to save money for CA wrong? No, IL did the same as did all states, eventually.

Go into any city tonight and look upon those sleeping in the streets. They are truly God's lost sheep. They can't care of fend for themselves, though the later may be argued that they will kill if their 'stuff' is moved or taken. As a society we abandoned them years ago.

[Kathianne]

Here's a bit of which I'm speaking about:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/12/curiously-during-period-before.html


December 15, 2012 "Curiously, during the period before deinstitutionalization, the mentally ill seem to have been less likely to be arrested for serious crimes than the general population." (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/12/curiously-during-period-before.html) "Studies in New York and Connecticut from the 1920s through the 1940s showed a much lower arrest rate for the mentally ill. In an era when involuntary commitment was relatively easy, those who were considered a danger to themselves or others would be hospitalized at the first signs of serious mental illness. The connection between insanity and crime was apparent, and the society took a precautionary approach. Mentally ill persons who were not hospitalized were those not considered a danger to others. This changed as deinstitutionalization took effect."

I'm winding down now, tired. Perhaps I'll address more tomorrow. I had a sister that was institutionalized for Down's syndrome in the 40's and a MIL that went bonkers in the late 80's and 90's, contributing to divorce.

[mundame]

I think it's important that we re-establish mental institutions.

However, two things: 1) the danger is that they would be used to put violent criminals there instead of jail, the argument being that anyone who does such things MUST be crazy. Well, sure they're crazy, but I think if they are criminal, they belong in jail.

2) It won't do ANYthing against the mass shooting we are seeing so much now. Think back to the biggies --- was a single shooter known to the society to be mentally ill, had any of them been involved with police, shown any signs except privately to family, perhaps, that they were crazy and dangerous? They weren't THAT crazy --- they hid it all! The Columbine killers hid their murderous plans for a full year from absolutely everyone with total success: Dylan Klebold even went to his prom and was accepted into a college.

Even the real schizos like Cho or the guy in Arizona or the Muslim who shot up Fort Hood --- they never got called on any of their craziness. People accepted and trusted, accepted and trusted. So more mental hospitals won't work to stop the mass killings going on more and more now.

I think after they've done their violence, if they are alive, they belong in prison for life (or better, just execute them quickly), but all the same, we need mental institutions for the seriously impaired homeless and other people who degrade our society. They shouldn't be out on the streets, screaming obscenities and barefoot in winter.

[Kathianne]

I think it's important that we re-establish mental institutions.

However, two things: 1) the danger is that they would be used to put violent criminals there instead of jail, the argument being that anyone who does such things MUST be crazy. Well, sure they're crazy, but I think if they are criminal, they belong in jail.

2) It won't do ANYthing against the mass shooting we are seeing so much now. Think back to the biggies --- was a single shooter known to the society to be mentally ill, had any of them been involved with police, shown any signs except privately to family, perhaps, that they were crazy and dangerous? They weren't THAT crazy --- they hid it all! The Columbine killers hid their murderous plans for a full year from absolutely everyone with total success: Dylan Klebold even went to his prom and was accepted into a college.

Even the real schizos like Cho or the guy in Arizona or the Muslim who shot up Fort Hood --- they never got called on any of their craziness. People accepted and trusted, accepted and trusted. So more mental hospitals won't work to stop the mass killings going on more and more now.

I think after they've done their violence, if they are alive, they belong in prison for life (or better, just execute them quickly), but all the same, we need mental institutions for the seriously impaired homeless and other people who degrade our society. They shouldn't be out on the streets, screaming obscenities and barefoot in winter.

Actually, institutionalizing or forcing meds may well stop or at least reduce these shootings. This shooter was recognized by nearly all with descriptions as 'off', 'not social', 'brilliant, even genius', reports that the mother pulled him out of school at 17, because she didn't like 'the school's plan' for her son. Certainly sounds like an IEP fight gone awry between mother and school. Considering this was the year before his hitting majority, school was most likely trying to document something. For it to come to the choice between school 'winning' something with IEP and mother removing him to homeschool, it would be interesting to know. Likely though we won't-privacy of records.

[mundame]

One will find that the cuts in mental health spending, i.e., mental health facilities, that housed those considered 'mentally ill,' coincides with the increased spending for 'best education for each student' and IEP's.

The 60's, 70's, and 80's were all about 'addressing needs,' not medicating without consent, and not warehousing the mentally ill. They had their 'rights.' Problem is that those over 18 often are so mentally ill, that their judgment is impaired. But at least the 'nightmare' state sanatoriums were closed. Great savings on mental health, but private costs would skyrocket, along with education costs.

It transformed education costs, leading to truly unsustainable costs. Some was good, much was really, really wrong.

Very interesting points. It is true that people were stuck in asylums and they threw away the key. But putting really crazy children with severe screaming autism into mainstream classrooms!! It's just so wrong.



There was a history of people abusing their rich relatives by having them declared 'insane' and throwing them in institutions and taking their wealth. Can't help but agree that making that much more difficult was a good thing.


That was way back in the 19th century, and it was always directed against women so the bad husband could get rid of her and marry again --- and what husband even now has NOT called his wife "clinically insane" during divorce from her? As far as I can see, every husband who wants a divorce decides his ex was insane so that was a good excuse to get rid of her. Hopefully putting her in a state mental institution is now a thing of the past, but you make a good point that this sort of thing is a danger.



laws were written that made it near impossible for family to get a dangerous member committed for more than a week to 10 days, without the mentally ill person's agreement.

Yes, and look at all the deaths and harm that causes. The psychologist treating the Batman killer KNEW he had fantasies about "killing lots of people" --- this came out in the news just before the latest shooting. She did talk to police about it and they did offer her........................................72 hours commitment of this guy for evaluation. So she's supposed to totally betray her client after he told her about his fantasies? And then they just let him right out again? She decided NOT to commit him for the 72 hours, and I don't blame her.

But it didn't work out well, as we know, when he acted out his fantasies at a Batman premier and killed a lot of people.

This would be a psychologist who is going to have to find a different career option. But I for one don't blame her.

[mundame]

Actually, institutionalizing or forcing meds may well stop or at least reduce these shootings. This shooter was recognized by nearly all with descriptions as 'off', 'not social', 'brilliant, even genius', reports that the mother pulled him out of school at 17, because she didn't like 'the school's plan' for her son. Certainly sounds like an IEP fight gone awry between mother and school. Considering this was the year before his hitting majority, school was most likely trying to document something. For it to come to the choice between school 'winning' something with IEP and mother removing him to homeschool, it would be interesting to know. Likely though we won't-privacy of records.


Yeah.........good points.

They can't and shouldn't institutionalize people for being "off" or the other symptoms of Aspergers, which some article are now claiming he had, not that Asperger guys are typically violent.

However, I like your point that the school may have been pushing for much more intervention and Mom was normalizing, nothing wrong with MY kid! And pulled him out.

I hope we do find out --- such a major crime event might supersede the usual privacy rules, with luck. It took months for stuff to come out about that unlucky psychologist in the Colorado case, but it's gradually coming out now.

[taft2012]

Ronald Reagan cut mental health funding more than Obama has. But who's to blame isn't a solution.,

emmmm, the federal government was in charge of health care when Reagan was president, like it is going to be under Obamacare.

[Abbey Marie]

You gotta love how the same people are simultaneously throwing their hands up saying drugs are uncontrollable and should be legalized, but guns are controllable and should be made illegal. Meanwhile, ownership of only one of those two items is specifically protected by our Constitution.

[mundame]

,

emmmm, the federal government was in charge of health care when Reagan was president, like it is going to be under Obamacare.


The institution closed were state mental institutions, and they still have some of those for the worst cases, right? I don't see how the feds are in charge of mental illness issues?

[Kathianne]

You gotta love how the same people are simultaneously throwing their hands up saying drugs are uncontrollable and should be legalized, but guns are controllable and should be made illegal. Meanwhile, ownership of only one of those two items is specifically protected by our Constitution.

I'd be pretty shocked to see gun legislation tightened because of mass killings. Drugs that are abused by the 'sane', aren't the same as meds for psychotics.

[mundame]

You gotta love how the same people are simultaneously throwing their hands up saying drugs are uncontrollable and should be legalized, but guns are controllable and should be made illegal. Meanwhile, ownership of only one of those two items is specifically protected by our Constitution.


Good heavens. This is a highly creative point, IMO.

Yeah, could we please not get into ANOTHER giant futile Prohibition of stuff people want and are determined to get no matter what?

How about people just being allowed to pursue happiness as they wish and only limiting them after someone actually does a crime that harms someone else.



Radical idea, I know, let people do what they want if it doesn't harm others. Personally, I think people who commit crimes should be "limited" real, real conclusively and that would solve the crime problem, but that's just me.

[aboutime]

I'd be pretty shocked to see gun legislation tightened because of mass killings. Drugs that are abused by the 'sane', aren't the same as meds for psychotics.


Kathianne. Kind of makes one wonder. If everyone is so demanding that gun legislation should be tightened...because another excuse made it a CRISIS they are taking advantage of due to CT.

Isn't it odd how those two states that made Marijuana legal have no intention of making DUI of MJ as serious a problem? But the insurance companies are about to make Billions over DEAD people on the road...who smoke NOTHING???

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. Kind of makes one wonder. If everyone is so demanding that gun legislation should be tightened...because another excuse made it a CRISIS they are taking advantage of due to CT.

Isn't it odd how those two states that made Marijuana legal have no intention of making DUI of MJ as serious a problem? But the insurance companies are about to make Billions over DEAD people on the road...who smoke NOTHING???

I'm unsure about the idea of everyone demanding gun legislation being tightened. I didn't think you were. I'm not, so are many others. Some perhaps want tightening, nearly all liberals. With that said, could be the majority, but certainly not all.

As for the insurance companies, they nearly always beat the odds. That's why actuaries make so much money!

[aboutime]

I'm unsure about the idea of everyone demanding gun legislation being tightened. I didn't think you were. I'm not, so are many others. Some perhaps want tightening, nearly all liberals. With that said, could be the majority, but certainly not all.

As for the insurance companies, they nearly always beat the odds. That's why actuaries make so much money!


I know that won't happen. But just turning on the tv this morning. Almost every station was either talking about CT, or the Talking Heads were sticking to MORE CONTROL OF GUNS.

Just an example of the extremes so many seem to so willfully LEAP UPON...for their next 15 minutes of fame, taking advantage, like Obama was told by RAHM...To...Never let a CRISIS go to waste.

[taft2012]

,

emmmm, the federal government was in charge of health care when Reagan was president, like it is going to be under Obamacare.

emmmm, the federal government was in NOT charge of health care

left out kind of important word there.

[Missileman]

Kathianne. Kind of makes one wonder. If everyone is so demanding that gun legislation should be tightened...because another excuse made it a CRISIS they are taking advantage of due to CT.

Isn't it odd how those two states that made Marijuana legal have no intention of making DUI of MJ as serious a problem? But the insurance companies are about to make Billions over DEAD people on the road...who smoke NOTHING???

Dead people COST insurance companies money.

They are going to have to develop a fast reliable method to field test for THC though...impaired is impaired whether alcohol or weed.

[pete311]

Sentiment could be changing.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-gun-control-20121217,0,2421497.story

Pro gun folk will just have to deal with it. No more assault weapons. Oh cry me a river.

[pete311]

Sigh.

THE LAW DIDN'T STOP THIS GUY.


No but new laws could help minimize the damage. If he didn't have the assault rifle he'd likely have killed less kids.

[pete311]

You gotta love how the same people are simultaneously throwing their hands up saying drugs are uncontrollable and should be legalized, but guns are controllable and should be made illegal. Meanwhile, ownership of only one of those two items is specifically protected by our Constitution.

You can't grow guns in your basement. Two completely different situations.

[pete311]

I think it's important that we re-establish mental institutions.


agreed

http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/17/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-when-parents-are-afraid-of-their-children/?iid=tl-main-mostpop2

[Missileman]

Sentiment could be changing.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-gun-control-20121217,0,2421497.story

Pro gun folk will just have to deal with it. No more assault weapons. Oh cry me a river.

As I said, the same amount of death in that confined classroom could have been dealt out in the same amount of time with a double-barrel 12ga and a bag of shells...the style of the weapon doesn't matter.

[Missileman]

No but new laws could help minimize the damage. If he didn't have the assault rifle he'd likely have killed less kids.

You know exactly shit about weapons.

[pete311]

You know exactly shit about weapons.

I know a hand gun is less dangerous than an assault rifle which is less dangerous than an RPG, which is less dangerous than a nuclear missile. Where have I gone wrong there?

[aboutime]

In all of this phony, politically correct excitement about banning certain weapons because of what took place last Friday.

What everyone. And I do mean EVERYONE so easily forgets. Or refuses to acknowledge as the FACTS is.

If someone. Anyone, man, woman, teen, child, resident, citizen, illegal, or legal decides they are angry at the world for any reason, and they find A WEAPON of any kind, licensed, unlicensed, legal, or illegal to kill one, or more people with....THEY WILL, and HAVE DONE IT.

And, because all of us now know what happened last Friday. NO AMOUNT OF law changing, protection, different tactics, armed people, or unarmed people...standing on corners, behind signs, on top of buildings....WILL STOP THE CRAZY PERSON(S).

If that was effective. We would not be talking about this now. And that IS THE REALITY.

[pete311]

If someone. Anyone, man, woman, teen, child, resident, citizen, illegal, or legal decides they are angry at the world for any reason, and they find A WEAPON of any kind, licensed, unlicensed, legal, or illegal to kill one, or more people with....THEY WILL, and HAVE DONE IT.
.

I don't disagree, but then why don't we allow civilians buy nuclear weapons? Because they are dangerous and unnecessary. Assault rifles are dangerous and unnecessary. Low clip hand guns are reasonable for defense. Hunting rifles are reasonable for hunting. Assault rifles are not reasonable for hunting or defense. They are for offensive military operations.

[Missileman]

I know a hand gun is less dangerous than an assault rifle which is less dangerous than an RPG, which is less dangerous than a nuclear missile. Where have I gone wrong there?

A handgun is not less dangerous than a rifle. As a matter of fact, due to the ease at which it can be concealed, a handgun is MORE dangerous than a rifle.

[pete311]

A handgun is not less dangerous than a rifle. As a matter of fact, due to the ease at which it can be concealed, a handgun is MORE dangerous than a rifle.

Marines didn't go into Bin Laden's compound with a 9mm in each hand.

[Missileman]

Marines didn't go into Bin Laden's compound with a 9mm in each hand.

So what?

[pete311]

So what?

If hand guns are more dangerous, why wouldn't they have?

[Missileman]

If hand guns are more dangerous, why wouldn't they have?

There is a difference between dangerous and effective. They could have gone in with a nuke, right?

[pete311]

There is a difference between dangerous and effective. They could have gone in with a nuke, right?

The assault rifle is both more dangerous and more effective. Take two rooms full of kids. One guy goes in one room with a stock 9mm, one goes in the other room with an assault rifle. Who kills the most and the quickest?

[Missileman]

The assault rifle is both more dangerous and more effective. Take two rooms full of kids. One guy goes in one room with a stock 9mm, one goes in the other room with an assault rifle. Who kills the most and the quickest?

Both with stock magazines...it's a tie.

[mundame]

I don't disagree, but then why don't we allow civilians buy nuclear weapons? Because they are dangerous and unnecessary. Assault rifles are dangerous and unnecessary. Low clip hand guns are reasonable for defense. Hunting rifles are reasonable for hunting. Assault rifles are not reasonable for hunting or defense. They are for offensive military operations.


I love this line of thinking. Why can't people have private nukes? Why can't people who live near airports have shoulder-fired heat-seeking rockets? Why have we outlawed full-automatic tommy guns? Oh, it's so sad "hobbyists" can't have full-automatic submachine guns!!

All these weapons, plus assault rifles, are for the soldiers in our brain stems -- the evolved warriors that are fine with killing everyone in sight, women, toddlers, babies, men, boys, everyone ----------

But preferably only the ones on the enemy side.

When we bring the nuke, the heat-seeking rockets, the cannon, the mortars, the poison gas, the tommy guns and assault rifles home to our own communities and let them be easily picked up and used by any psycho who decides he's mad at his mother this morning, that "hobby" can become a problem.

[mundame]

Both with stock magazines...it's a tie.



Well, Lanza had two 9 mms and an assault rifle, and his choice was the assault rifle from first to last.

Hey, he's the real expert, after all.




On edit -- the WSJ said the Batman shooter did his killing with that same assault rifle, too. The guys who really know how say --- Bushmaster!

[Missileman]

Well, Lanza had two 9 mms and an assault rifle, and his choice was the assault rifle from first to last.

Hey, he's the real expert, after all.




On edit -- the WSJ said the Batman shooter did his killing with that same assault rifle, too. The guys who really know how say --- Bushmaster!

Another idiot trying to blame the gun. The shape of the stock, which is all that makes an "assault" rifle different from a sport version, has no bearing on its lethality. They both fire identical rounds at identical speed.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The assault rifle is both more dangerous and more effective. Take two rooms full of kids. One guy goes in one room with a stock 9mm, one goes in the other room with an assault rifle. Who kills the most and the quickest?
A crazy man could have went into that room with a hammer and killed all those kids. The tool used is not the important thing ! Yet to serve an agenda its being made to be. School security and mental health issues in this nation are two far more important issues IMHO.-TYR

[pete311]

A crazy man could have went into that room with a hammer and killed all those kids. The tool used is not the important thing ! Yet to serve an agenda its being made to be. School security and mental health issues in this nation are two far more important issues IMHO.-TYR

A teacher has a chance against a hammer. She does not have a chance against an assault rifle.

[Kathianne]

A teacher has a chance against a hammer. She does not have a chance against an assault rifle.

We don't make laws based upon the exceptions and yes, school assaults are the exception. More are killed by accidents and drive by's than by assaults to commit suicide by own hand or by police.

[Missileman]

A teacher has a chance against a hammer. She does not have a chance against an assault rifle.

She wouldn't have a chance against a single shot shotgun, a muzzle-loader, a 30-30 winchester, a 410 pump, an axe, a hatchet, a poison dart, a stun-gun/rock combo...the argument that the scale was tipped against her because it was an assault rifle is a pile of ignorant bullshit.

[mundame]

The Clackamus Mall shooter a few days ago stole an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle and shot up the Mall with it --- that's an assault rifle, isn't it? It jammed; bad brand, maybe; he should have stolen a Bushmaster AR-15. That's what all the really effective psychos are using.


Okay, I've got it.

Of course madmen are forever going to try to kill lots of people and the higher the body count, the happier they are. So a government properly tries to keep high-body count weaponry like nuclear bombs and shoulder-fired rockets and machine guns out of the community, reserving them for use by soldiers against government-labeled enemies.

We have lately found that assault rifles are the weapons of choice for all psycho killers who are trying for a high body count before they commit suicide. There are getting to be more and more of these attacks with some sort of competition going on for how many they can kill, so the killers can be famous.

Therefore assault rifles are no longer reasonable to have out in the community because they are being used too often in mass killings by madmen. So they should be outlawed.


　

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Another idiot trying to blame the gun. The shape of the stock, which is all that makes an "assault" rifle different from a sport version, has no bearing on its lethality. They both fire identical rounds at identical speed.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SO VERY CORRECT...
THESE PEOPLE JUST DO NOT GET IT! The term assault weapon is bullshat . I can promise every one of them that a man using a pistol , shotgun, knife , crossbow or even a baseball bat is using an Assault Weapon when using that specific item to harm them! Just let it be their particular asses on the receiving end of that assault and see how quick they change their minds on the meaning of that term IMHO.
THE POLITICAL AGENDA NOW TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER THE INNOCENT LIVES LOST IN THIS TRAGEDY.
THANK THAT INSANITY ON THE SOCIALIST MEDIA, THE SOCIALIST OBAMA AND THE LIBERAL ANTI-GUN MORONS FOR THAT SAD AND DECEITFUL TRAVESTY.-TYR

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm

NO OVER REACTION TO THIS WAS MADE..They did not ban dynamite.-TYR

<center style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 204);">The Bath School Disaster
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/schoola.jpg</center>With all due respect and sympathy to the victims and their families of the Columbine (http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=columbine+and+school+and+shooting), McDonald's (http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=mcdonald's+and+shooting+and+ysidro), and Virginia Tech (http://abcnews.go.com/US/VATech/) shootings, the Oklahoma bombing (http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=oklahoma+and+bombing), and other mass murders (http://www.nando.net/newsroom/nt/602MSSMUR.html), they were not the worst mass murders of children in the US.
On May 18, 1927, 45 people, mostly children, were killed and 58 were injured when disgruntled and demented school board member Andrew Kehoe dynamited the new school building in Bath, Michigan out of revenge over his foreclosed farm due in part to the taxes required to pay for the new school.
Contents of this page:
Dedication (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Dedication)
Details (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Details)
Contemporary Accounts (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Contemporary)
Pictures (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Pictures)
Personal Observations (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Personal)
Poems (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Poems)
Other Links (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Links)
References (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#References)
Feedback (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#Feedback)
Page History (check here for updates) (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm#History)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why isnt the media speaking of this mass murder? Answer --no gun was used (dynamite was), get a clue people..-Tyr

[aboutime]

Look at how sick this thread has become.

Children, and their teachers, with a few others DIED on FRIDAY.

The nation as a whole seems to be mourning, and rightly so.

So. What is happening here?

Look at the endless selfishness being displayed. Comparing the Horror of Friday with the past, and throwing it in each other's face for some SICK ASS, STUPID, IGNORANT REASONS????

And we all wonder why our Nation is going down the SHITTER?

[pete311]

a muzzle-loader, a 30-30 winchester, a 410 pump, an axe, a hatchet, a poison dart, a stun-gun/rock combo...the argument that the scale was tipped against her because it was an assault rifle is a pile of ignorant bullshit.

yeah cuz someone can cause mass murder with a muzzle loader, poison dart...

Tyr, dynamite has plenty other uses. Guns are tools of murder. That is their only purpose.

[pete311]

And we all wonder why our Nation is going down the SHITTER?

we live in a caveman culture

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why isnt this known better by more people? Answer is, it doesn't help the anti-gun agenda

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/15/Man-With-Concealed-Carry-Gun-May-Have-Prevented-Oregon-Shooter-From-Inflicting-More-Carnage

A former security guard with a concealed carry permit may have prevented Jacob Tyler Roberts, the 22-year-old who killed two people and critically wounded another when he opened fire at an Oregon shopping mall last Wednesday, from inflicting even more carnage.Nick Meli claims after Roberts, saw his gun, Roberts killed himself.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," Meli said. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
Meli told (http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/183609901.html) Portland, Oregon's NewsChannel 8 that as he was about to fire, he saw someone move in the background and never pulled the trigger because "I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them."
While at the mall with a friend and her baby, Meli "positioned himself behind a pillar" and took out his gun after hearing three gunshots.

[aboutime]

we live in a caveman culture


Even cavemen had more respect for fellow cavemen. We now live in the Selfish, Instant Gratification, Me, and I culture based on no rules, no education, no personal responsibility and HANDS OUT for freebies, paid for by Responsible, Honorable, Dedicated people who are losing everything to LIARS, CHEATERS, and IDIOTS.

[Missileman]

yeah cuz someone can cause mass murder with a muzzle loader, poison dart...

YOU were the one who turned into "what the teacher could stand a chance against". The killing of A teacher isn't mass murder and not what you switched the argument to.


Tyr, dynamite has plenty other uses. Guns are tools of murder. That is their only purpose.

BULLSHIT! But just so we're clear, police carry guns so they can commit murder? There's no such thing as using a gun to put food on the table?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

yeah cuz someone can cause mass murder with a muzzle loader, poison dart...

Tyr, dynamite has plenty other uses. Guns are tools of murder. That is their only purpose.

Not true, guns have been used for self-defense and for national defense. They are used by police everyday !
'Ole Jed kept his family fed with a gun. I did too as a teenager living on a farm in the mid 60's.. Now my guns defend my home, I hate to have to depend on a cop for that myself. HOW ABOUT MY HAMMER? I could go to Walmart right now if so inclined and killed a great many people with just that hammer, it makes no bang bang sound and somebody seeing a MAN APPROACH WITH ONE WOULD TAKE NO FRIGHT AND WOULD MAKE NO DEFENSIVE MOVES. I dare say I estimate I could kill a dozen or more people easily and rather rapidly. Just an example. I plan on killing nobody except an intruder that is dumb enough to enter my home. Then its feet first for that sucker I promise you that.. After the intruder is dead we an discusS other possible measures I could have taken--after the bastard is D E A D.. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

YOU were the one who turned into "what the teacher could stand a chance against". The killing of A teacher isn't mass murder and not what you switched the argument to.



BULLSHIT! But just so we're clear, police carry guns so they can commit murder? There's no such thing as using a gun to put food on the table?

^^^^^^ Correct, cops use guns to great effect..

My guns have put easily over a ton of food on my table. No so much now because I only bow hunt.
But I'm quite good with that Assault weapon too. Have Assaulted a few tasty animals with it and the arrow brought 'em down fairly quickly and cleanly. Never went with my Assault hammer because a carpenter has no time to frolic about in the woods!-;)--Tyr

[pete311]

ok I'm not going to spend any more energy on this. it's like discussing religion. what I'm interested in knowing is where you guys draw the line on what weapons should or shouldn't be legal. I suppose you both agree that land mines, RPGs, and chemical missiles are not appropriate for civilian use. at what weapon, do you say, that is ok to be illegal, that makes sense. tell me what weapon and why. I am genuinely interested. thank you

[logroller]

ok I'm not going to spend any more energy on this. it's like discussing religion. what I'm interested in knowing is where you guys draw the line on what weapons should or shouldn't be legal. I suppose you both agree that land mines, RPGs, and chemical missiles are not appropriate for civilian use. at what weapon, do you say, that is ok to be illegal, that makes sense. tell me what weapon and why. I am genuinely interested. thank you
There's really no clear line. Some things should be allowable by permit only. I'd say explosives should be by permit only. Full auto is acceptable to me for permit use only as well.

[Gaffer]

ok I'm not going to spend any more energy on this. it's like discussing religion. what I'm interested in knowing is where you guys draw the line on what weapons should or shouldn't be legal. I suppose you both agree that land mines, RPGs, and chemical missiles are not appropriate for civilian use. at what weapon, do you say, that is ok to be illegal, that makes sense. tell me what weapon and why. I am genuinely interested. thank you

For home defense I only need a pistol. Preferable a high caliber capable of stopping even a doped up fool. For hunting a shotgun or good rifle will do the trick. For standing up to the govt when it becomes tyrannical I would need an assault rifle. Along with any other weapons I could acquire. RPG's, hand grenades, mortars. And if you think it couldn't happen here your a major fool.


Explosives need to be properly stored and can't be kept in the standard household. Even the military stores explosives away from living quarters. So there are limits to what the average citizen should have. But banning weapons will just make it harder to get them. But they can be got.

[pete311]

And if you think it couldn't happen here your a major fool.


The minute it does I'm on a plane to Vietnam and living on the beach.

[logroller]

The minute it does I'm on a plane to Vietnam and living on the beach.
Because the oppressive govts of the world allow for travel freedoms.:laugh:

[SassyLady]

The minute it does I'm on a plane to Vietnam and living on the beach.

Wow ... that sounds like a true, blue patriot. Thanks for letting us know your true colors, pete.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The minute it does I'm on a plane to Vietnam and living on the beach.

I hope that was a careless ,flippant remark with no substance to it because I didn't picture you as the run away kind pete311..-Tyr

[Gaffer]

The minute it does I'm on a plane to Vietnam and living on the beach.

Ever been to Vietnam? It is the place for a good commie to run too. Maybe John Kerry, who served in Vietnam, will bring his yacht and join you. He will be on the list of those to be removed from govt.

You get use to the smell after a while.

[pete311]

Because the oppressive govts of the world allow for travel freedoms.:laugh:

if you think the US could become a DPRK or even Syria, then you are the fool. I'm not blind to the fact we could become a Greece, but get a grip.

[pete311]

Ever been to Vietnam?

Yeah I spent a month there three years ago. It's freakin wonderful if you got a bit of cash. $10/n beachside bungalow, eating noodle soups and getting massage.

[Gaffer]

Yeah I spent a month there three years ago. It's freakin wonderful if you got a bit of cash. $10/n beachside bungalow, eating noodle soups and getting massage.

It's not so wonderful if your Vietnamese living on noodle soup and hand outs from the govt. Did you try the rice and fish heads? Did you walk in the rice paddies? Did you take a hike through the jungles of the central highlands? Interesting things in those jungles. Shrines and temples overgrown with plants and flowers you only see in National Geographic. Lots of variety of bugs and critters. No massage tables or boom boom girls though.

The people are very nice. They have learned through torture, beheadings and murder how to survive in a communist society. I'm sure you found them quaint.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's not so wonderful if your Vietnamese living on noodle soup and hand outs from the govt. Did you try the rice and fish heads? Did you walk in the rice paddies? Did you take a hike through the jungles of the central highlands? Interesting things in those jungles. Shrines and temples overgrown with plants and flowers you only see in National Geographic. Lots of variety of bugs and critters. No massage tables or boom boom girls though.

The people are very nice. They have learned through torture, beheadings and murder how to survive in a communist society. I'm sure you found them quaint.

Vietnam is a communist hellhole and only nice where foreign tourists come to enjoy the girls. One of my good friends spent time there fighting and even spent some time there after the war ended. He pretty much described it exactly as you just did Gaffer. The people live in poverty and are barely fed. There is no communist paradise except in communist propaganda books, films and tall tales created to fooooool very fooooolish and highly gullible people. -Tyr

[Gaffer]

Vietnam is a communist hellhole and only nice where foreign tourists come to enjoy the girls. One of my good friends spent time there fighting and even spent some time there after the war ended. He pretty much described it exactly as you just did Gaffer. The people live in poverty and are barely fed. There is no communist paradise except in communist propaganda books, films and tall tales created to fooooool very fooooolish and highly gullible people. -Tyr

The only ones living well in Vietnam are the communist elites. And they are a cruel evil bunch. They rank right up there with muslims. I've seen the methods they used to control the population.

[pete311]

The only ones living well in Vietnam are the communist elites. And they are a cruel evil bunch. They rank right up there with muslims. I've seen the methods they used to control the population.

haha look, i'm not at all claiming vietnam is superior to the US. I'm not that dumb. I'm just saying if shit went down here, I could live pretty damn well over there.

[aboutime]

Ever been to Vietnam? It is the place for a good commie to run too. Maybe John Kerry, who served in Vietnam, will bring his yacht and join you. He will be on the list of those to be removed from govt.

You get use to the smell after a while.


Gaffer. You never really get used to the smell. As for visiting there. Never touched the beach, but can vouch for the beauty...from a Distance at something called "YANKEE STATION".

[Gaffer]

Gaffer. You never really get used to the smell. As for visiting there. Never touched the beach, but can vouch for the beauty...from a Distance at something called "YANKEE STATION".

Yeah the smell is always there, but eventually it kinda becomes like background noise.

I did get to the beach at Chu Lai. Swam in the South China Sea, twice. Then there were the trips to the little islands we made on the marine amtracks and one beach landing in a landing craft. Felt like one of those old movies except there was no one firing at us. The island was empty of people when we landed. That was considered a break from the fighting, and for us it really was a break.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Food Nazi Doomberg CLEARLY HAS NO RESPECT FOR OUR CONSTITUTION!!

WHAT HE NEEDS IS A GOOD WELL PLACED KICK IN THE SEAT OF HIS PANTS EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK AND TWICE ON SUNDAYS IMHO.

How about he put his money were his mouth is and disarm ALL of his body guards?? You know the bastard has many armed body guards.
No way he'd say because he is "special" and deserves the best protection money can buy which puts the light squarely on this hypocrical elitist and his nazi minded bullshit. --Tyr

[aboutime]

The IDIOT of NEW YORK, reminds me of the "OUTBACK" Blooming Onion...4168...turned Idiot.

[KarlMarx]

The usual nonsense (again) from the usual big-government fanatic.

-----------------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ny-mayor-bloomberg-slams-obama-guns-immediate-action-214800682--politics.html

NYC Mayor Bloomberg slams Obama on guns: ‘We need immediate action’

by Beth Fouhy | The Ticket – 2 hrs 45 mins ago.. .

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg had tough words for President Barack Obama on Friday after Obama's emotional call for "meaningful action" in the wake of a mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Bloomberg, a longtime gun control advocate, released a statement through Mayors Against Illegal Guns, an advocacy group he co-founded with Boston Mayor Thomas Menino.

"President Obama rightly sent his heartfelt condolences to the families in Newtown. But the country needs him to send a bill to Congress to fix this problem," Bloomberg said.

This is the same cretin who, in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, signed off on having the New York Marathon while thousands of his fellow New Yorkers were living in homeless shelters.

Great to see Mayor Bloomberg shoot his mouth off rather than do what he was elected to do, run New York City...

[aboutime]

This is the same cretin who, in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, signed off on having the New York Marathon while thousands of his fellow New Yorkers were living in homeless shelters.

Great to see Mayor Bloomberg shoot his mouth off rather than do what he was elected to do, run New York City...


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