Obama Wants $1.6 Trillion in Taxes and End of Debt Ceiling in Exchange For Nothing

[red states rule]

Looks like the discussions over the fiscal cliff are going the usual way. Dems get everything they want while giving NOTHING to the other side. Of course the liberal media see this as a fair and reasonable offer - take the money now and promise to pay it back later. Much like the last two deals Dems made with Republicans
Even more unbelievable than the “offer” itself (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/us/politics/fiscal-talks-in-congress-seem-to-reach-impasse.html?hp&pagewanted=print) is the fact that the our hack media will go on painting Republicans as the unreasonable ideologues in this equation.
House Republicans said on Thursday that Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner presented the House speaker, John A. Boehner, a detailed proposal to avert the year-end fiscal crisis with $1.6 trillion in tax increases over 10 years, an immediate new round of stimulus spending, home mortgage refinancing and a permanent end to Congressional control over statutory borrowing limits.
The proposal, loaded with Democratic priorities and short on detailed spending cuts, was likely to meet strong Republican resistance. In exchange for locking in the $1.6 trillion in added revenues, President Obama embraced $400 billion in savings from Medicare and other entitlements, to be worked out next year, with no guarantees.
He did propose some upfront cuts in programs like farm price supports, but did not specify an amount or any details. And senior Republican aides familiar with the offer said those initial spending cuts might well be outnumbered by upfront spending increases, including at least $50 billion in infrastructure spending, mortgage relief, an extension of unemployment insurance and a deferral of automatic cuts to physician reimbursements under Medicare…
[T]he details show how far the president is ready to push House Republicans. The upfront tax increases in the proposal go beyond what Senate Democrats were able to pass earlier this year. Tax rates would go up for higher-income earners, as in the Senate bill, but Mr. Obama wants their dividends to be taxed as ordinary income, something the Senate did not approve. He also wants the estate tax to be levied at 45 percent on inheritances over $3.5 million, a step several Democratic senators balked at. The Senate bill made no changes to the estate tax, which currently taxes inheritances over $5 million at 35 percent.

Here’s Peter Suderman’s idea of a commensurate counter-offer:
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2163435946/Edward-Norton-Fight-Club1_normal.jpg Peter Suderman @petersuderman (https://twitter.com/petersuderman)<iframe class="twt-follow-button" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets/follow_button.html#align=right&button=grey&screen_name=petersuderman&show_count=false&show_screen_name=false&lang=en" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency=""></iframe>
Republicans hear Obama's opening bid, counter with: Eliminate the federal government, except for defense.

29 Nov 12 (https://twitter.com/petersuderman/statuses/274277755124862976)

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Two possibilities. One: Obama reeeeally wants to avoid the cliff, so he’s engineering some political cover for the other side to compromise. Ante up with a ridiculous bid, then pretend to let Republicans “win” by letting them negotiate him down to, say, “only” a trillion in new revenues. In order to believe that, though, you have to believe that O fears the cliff. Why would he? Polls show that Republicans will take most of the blame, which means not only will Obama have more leverage after January 1 (see my earlier post (http://www.debatepolicy.com/archives/2012/11/29/boehner-no-progress-on-fiscal-cliff-talks-over-last-two-weeks/) about that) but he can then blame any economic sluggishness over the next year or two or four on the GOP too. That might be the difference between a Republican Senate versus a Democratic House in 2014. Which brings us to two: He’s either indifferent about going over the cliff or now actively wants it to happen, and since he knows he can count on the press to scapegoat Republicans when it does, he’s decided to shoot for the stars with his “offer” and see how desperate Boehner is. Is the GOP sufficiently nervous about being called enemies of the middle class if a deal isn’t reached that they’ll cave on tax hikes on the rich in exchange for some smaller bundle of concessions, with this insane package the only other alternative on the Democratic side? That’s what O wants to see.
Exit question: Let it burn?
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/29/report-obamas-fiscal-cliff-offer-to-republicans-calls-for-1-6-trillion-in-new-taxes-and-end-of-debt-ceiling-in-exchange-for-nothing-basically/

[aboutime]

I now believe. As Charles Krouthamer(sp) stated. "It is time for the Republicans to just WALK AWAY."

Let Obama, and the Democrats do whatever they want. And let them answer to the Ignorant, Dumb, Stupid Americans who gave him another four years to destroy this nation.

WALK AWAY. It is all OBAMA'S now. No blaming Bush for anything. But they will.

[red states rule]

Not surprised the Obama supporters have ignored this thread and failed to show their support of Obama's plan to return economic prosperity to the nation. I guess everyone struggling should go out and max out their credit cards then call the bank and ask for an unlimited credit line and do more spending. Yea that will solve the problems facing the nation

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/lb1204cd20121203103005.jpg

[aboutime]

red states rule. I am still having a big problem trying to rectify, or understand TWO things about America today.

First. How so many of our Fellow Americans did not hesitate to prove how absolutely Uncaring, and Uninformed they are by voting for Obama again?

And Second.

How a nation with so many uncaring, selfish, nearly totally ignorant people could be fooled TWICE by someone who is even More Ignorant than they are? And they are honestly afraid to admit their stupidity...fearing they will be labeled...as Mister Obama thinks they are, as Racists?

[Robert A Whit]

Obama is still the same empty suit he was on day one.

Cspan features rooms full of experts yapping for an hour or more on how to fix the problem.

If you get a dozen economists, you get at least 3 ways to go. Nobody can make a decision. The only thing Obama knows is he wants to punish the rich.

CSPAN featured on Tuesday, Dec 4, a good program and even those experts could not all get on the same page.

I am sick of PBS since they have gone off the rails and in my view are left wing.

They will put on Krugman with no other economist to counter his statements.

Listen to Krugman and this country will go broke faster.

[KarlMarx]

No Obama will give us something for raising taxes on the rich, he won't plunge us into the abyss until next time. If Republicans give in, he will do it again.

Bravo. Now people all across the country are going to see just how far left this lunatic is. I predict that Barack Obama will be the first US President with single digit approval ratings and he deserves it.

Keep it up Mr President, there's no free lunch, you and your fellow Democrats are on borrowed time. This is going to cost you the mid-term elections and the next election, too.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Looks like the discussions over the fiscal cliff are going the usual way. Dems get everything they want while giving NOTHING to the other side. Of course the liberal media see this as a fair and reasonable offer - take the money now and promise to pay it back later. Much like the last two deals Dems made with Republicans

When begging for votes for a second term the bastard only wanted 800 billion , now after winning it doubled to 1.6 trillion. That totally corrupt bastard wouldn't know the truth or have an honorable thought if he lived to be a thousand years old. His plan is to crash us and always to weaken us by any and every means possible..-Tyr

[Kathianne]

No Obama will give us something for raising taxes on the rich, he won't plunge us into the abyss until next time. If Republicans give in, he will do it again.

Bravo. Now people all across the country are going to see just how far left this lunatic is. I predict that Barack Obama will be the first US President with single digit approval ratings and he deserves it.

Keep it up Mr President, there's no free lunch, you and your fellow Democrats are on borrowed time. This is going to cost you the mid-term elections and the next election, too.

Not unless the right finds a speaker that can explain why the bolded. The speaker of the House removed 4 tea party dissenters from several positions yesterday. No explanation, other than they don't want to 'compromise', aka giving Obama all he wants.

[Robert A Whit]

Not unless the right finds a speaker that can explain why the bolded. The speaker of the House removed 4 tea party dissenters from several positions yesterday. No explanation, other than they don't want to 'compromise', aka giving Obama all he wants.

Since learing of this. I don't know what to make of this story.

In that case, there is too much we do not know to make any rational evaluation. Maybe the Speaker simply got sick of something or the other. I truly would love to know the entire story from both sides if the story.

[avatar4321]

If Obama wants to go over the cliff. Let him have it. I hate saying that because it will cause alot of people to suffer. But people are going to be suffering either way.

The problem is Republicans will still be blamed for it all. I was reading an article earlier where it was bragging that Obama was going to let us go over the cliff just to blame the Republicans. Like this partisan bullcrap is a good thing.

Bad as a guy I know who is all happy and bragging about how Obama was able to lie about Romney and define him.

[red states rule]

red states rule. I am still having a big problem trying to rectify, or understand TWO things about America today.

First. How so many of our Fellow Americans did not hesitate to prove how absolutely Uncaring, and Uninformed they are by voting for Obama again?

And Second.

How a nation with so many uncaring, selfish, nearly totally ignorant people could be fooled TWICE by someone who is even More Ignorant than they are? And they are honestly afraid to admit their stupidity...fearing they will be labeled...as Mister Obama thinks they are, as Racists?

AT, Rush explained this and I posted this on Kats under educated voter thread. It is worth posting again as it sums up what happened in the election
RUSH: Okay, folks, I'm gonna tell you what happened. I'm gonna tell you what happened. It's all starting to make sense at me now. We all know that Obama has built up a cult-like following, and it consists of people who don't care what he stands for. It doesn't matter. There are people who are voting for him because he's the first black president, and they voted for him 'cause he was historic and then reelected him on the same basis.
There's all this polling data which shows that even some of his voters, though, disagree with what he's done. Yet they still vote for him. And I'll tell you what this proves. He builds up this cult-like following as this messianic figure. I mean, kids in these schools are singing Obama songs. And what did the Republicans do? I will remind you. I'm not gonna mention any names because they all thought the same thing. It doesn't matter.
A Republican governor who was thinking of getting in the race -- he did get into the race, for a while -- came to my humble abode to take my temperature on his candidacy. Of course, I just listen at these things. He said to me, "Rush, we cannot go after Obama personally. All we can do is go after his policies," and that became the rule. I mean, from Romney to every other Republican candidate. You know, he's a nice guy. He's just in over his head. He's a nice guy; he just doesn't know what he's doing. He's nice guy." But he's not a nice guy. We didn't tell people who he is because we were afraid of the racist charge. Well, none of this "we" business because I'm not afraid of it. But the Republicans were. They were afraid of it, and they didn't say it. No Republican made any effort whatsoever to tell people who he is ideologically or anything about his history.
He got away with it. He's the only president in this country who's never been vetted by the media. To this day, there's nothing known about this guy. Other than the cult-like figure characteristics that have been associated with him. Now, the Republicans listening say, "Well, yeah, Rush. Look at how much we're disliked and how much they would have hated us even more if we would have attacked Obama." It's not attacking! It's explaining!
We're dealing with a hard-core leftist.
It was made to order.
We ought to have been able to explain who Obama is in our sleep to people because it's exactly what and who we oppose. But no, what did we do? "He's a nice guy! He's a wonderful family man; a great, great guy! He just happens to be wrong. He's given it his best shot but, you know, his ideas didn't work." Well, what did that do? All that confirmed for the people who look at him as a cult figure is he's a great guy, which is all that matters to people that look at people as a cult figure!
"He's a cult figure. He's a great guy."
That's all they needed.
Everything else was irrelevant.
So I think that's probably one of the explanations. http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/12/04/did_obama_voters_know_what_they_voted_for