well Folks...They Caved....

[Jbird]

NBC news just reported that there will infact be raised taxes on the wealthy with no mention of cutting anything from the budget. Well we shall see if our so called cliff has been elieviated.

[aboutime]

jbird. Did anyone honestly believe it would be any other way?

Politicians are Politicians. They had no intention of doing anything else. Not with the THREATS of upcoming Elections in the wind again.

It's just another case of the Democrats demanding Republican Compromise...as long as the Democrats are not held to the same form of compromise as in..."Our way, or the Highway!"

[Robert A Whit]

John got on TV and said there is no progress. I am watching the replay on CSPAN

[Jbird]

John got on TV and said there is no progress. I am watching the replay on CSPAN It was a leak..But it seems that's gonna be the outcome.

[Robert A Whit]

It was a leak..But it seems that's gonna be the outcome.

I prefer that it gets announced.

Democrats make the excuse that they already cut spending. Then have to show me the law Obama signed doing that.

[Jbird]

I prefer that it gets announced.

Democrats make the excuse that they already cut spending. Then have to show me the law Obama signed doing that. LOL ....I think we're scewed either way honestly.

[gabosaurus]

In case you missed it, there was this national election. People voted for increasing taxes on the upper class. Either that, or taxes goes up for everybody.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-boehner-fiscal-cliff-taxes-20121129,0,4107018.story

[aboutime]

In case you missed it, there was this national election. People voted for increasing taxes on the upper class. Either that, or taxes goes up for everybody.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-boehner-fiscal-cliff-taxes-20121129,0,4107018.story



SO....PAY UP GABBY! If you insist you are smarter than the rest of us. Show us how a smartass obeys your own statement about how YOU voted to increase taxes. And, at least have the courage to admit you know. TAXES are going up for EVERYBODY.

[tailfins]

As I said in previous posts: I hope it's non-conservative Republicans that make the difference and that it's a close vote.

[Kathianne]

It was a leak..But it seems that's gonna be the outcome.

I think the conservatives should jump on the leak and explain what they believe will happen to the debt, the economy, employment. They should try to be concerned, not mean-spirited, they should emphasize that this was what Obama promised, it's what is happening, he owns it. The Democrats too!

[gabosaurus]

As I said in previous posts: I hope it's non-conservative Republicans that make the difference and that it's a close vote.

Since when are there non-conservative Republicans?

[tailfins]

Since when are there non-conservative Republicans?

http://conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/2011/house.html

Pick out the members whose last names are in CAPITALS that have a score under 70%.

[aboutime]

http://conservative.org/ratingsarchive/uscongress/2011/house.html

Pick out the members whose last names are in CAPITALS that have a score under 70%.


tailfins. Perhaps you should remind gabby about what "RINO'S" are.

[Robert A Whit]

In case you missed it, there was this national election. People voted for increasing taxes on the upper class. Either that, or taxes goes up for everybody.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-boehner-fiscal-cliff-taxes-20121129,0,4107018.story


How do you figure that the public wants to only screw over one class of voters?

I believe this. Had the rich caused Congress to do all this spending, then tax them. But if you tax them, don't merely go to the Clinton taxes, tax the hell out of them and rape them. Rape their kids too.

But I don't believe it is the richs fault. The congress, damn them did not do it either. The only reason the Democrats won't produce any budget from his first year to today is so they won't get blamed. And no, Obama is not transparent.

[Robert A Whit]

I think the conservatives should jump on the leak and explain what they believe will happen to the debt, the economy, employment. They should try to be concerned, not mean-spirited, they should emphasize that this was what Obama promised, it's what is happening, he owns it. The Democrats too!

I have been trying to understand the purpose.

Want to know my belief?

I am not clear that if taxes go up that any recession will happen over that.

I do not believe that cutting deficits or cutting national debt means the economy will improve.

This is about saving Government.

We need them to understand in DC that to save the government from future riots in the streets, with politicans hung in effigy and so forth, perhaps citizens with guns approaching the centers of goverment over this issue (see Greece) spending has to be cut.

Raising taxes will not cut spending.

And too few already support government. It means that we can whine all we want but we don't pay our fair share. The rich pay much more than their fair share.

That is the message.

People are very confused as to how government actually works and how taxes really work.

If they felt pain, they would more than likely want to know a lot more.

[Missileman]

It's all smoke and mirrors anyways. If through loopholes a wealthy person pays a 15% rate instead of 35%, do you honestly believe he's going to pay more than 15% if the rate goes up to 39%?

[Trigg]

In case you missed it, there was this national election. People voted for increasing taxes on the upper class. Either that, or taxes goes up for everybody.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-boehner-fiscal-cliff-taxes-20121129,0,4107018.story

Just out of curiosity what do you do in your house when you want to reduce your debt?

Sure you or your husband might put in some extra hours to bring in more pay, but it that all?????

Like most people you would stay in, cook at home instead of going to dinner, rent a movie instead of going to a theatre.

In the end the thing that is going to make the biggest dent in your debt is NOT SPENDING AS MUCH MONEY.

That....sadly.....is what the gov. just doesn't get. Raising taxes is a small part of reducing our deficit. It will hurt to pay down our debt and our politicians aren't willing or able to make the sacrifices needed.

[Kathianne]

Just out of curiosity what do you do in your house when you want to reduce your debt?

Sure you or your husband might put in some extra hours to bring in more pay, but it that all?????

Like most people you would stay in, cook at home instead of going to dinner, rent a movie instead of going to a theatre.

In the end the thing that is going to make the biggest dent in your debt is NOT SPENDING AS MUCH MONEY.

That....sadly.....is what the gov. just doesn't get. Raising taxes is a small part of reducing our deficit. It will hurt to pay down our debt and our politicians aren't willing or able to make the sacrifices needed.

Families may decide they need to increase 'income' and perhaps the stay at home mom, starts working. Or if she was working and was dad, one or both get a second job. (taxes is how government pulls in income).

But when both parents are working two or more jobs, what then? They need to cut expenses. They may need to declare bankruptcy, or sell their home, (if they own).

Truth to tell, the government is NOT in these straits, yet. They need to just cut spending. That's where the ball is in the Obama court. Are they willing to? So far, only with Pentagon, which they loathe.

[Trigg]

Families may decide they need to increase 'income' and perhaps the stay at home mom, starts working. Or if she was working and was dad, one or both get a second job. (taxes is how government pulls in income).

But when both parents are working two or more jobs, what then? They need to cut expenses. They may need to declare bankruptcy, or sell their home, (if they own).

Truth to tell, the government is NOT in these straits, yet. They need to just cut spending. That's where the ball is in the Obama court. Are they willing to? So far, only with Pentagon, which they loathe.

Exactly, so far bambam is just playing politics. He knows that taxing the rich isn't going to make a dent in the debt, but it sells well with the uneducated masses.

[Kathianne]

Exactly, so far bambam is just playing politics. He knows that taxing the rich isn't going to make a dent in the debt, but it sells well with the uneducated masses.

The real problem is when it doesn't work. That's why conservatives need to get out front.

[Larrymc]

NBC news just reported that there will infact be raised taxes on the wealthy with no mention of cutting anything from the budget. Well we shall see if our so called cliff has been elieviated.haven't seen it yet, but if so makes me sick, and if Romney had anything to do with it, i might have a reason to like him a little less

[Trigg]

haven't seen it yet, but if so makes me sick, and if Romney had anything to do with it, i might have a reason to like him a little less

why would Romney have anything to do with this?

[aboutime]

why would Romney have anything to do with this?



Trigg. We are learning the hard way. Hatred isn't confined only to those we disagree with.

[Larrymc]

why would Romney have anything to do with this?well him and Obama had lunch today, i had a felling that it might have something to do with getting the GOP to cave??

[aboutime]

well him and Obama had lunch today, i had a felling that it might have something to do with getting the GOP to cave??


Larrymc. Lot's of people have had lunch today. Were all of them responsible for getting the GOP to cave too?

[DragonStryk72]

In case you missed it, there was this national election. People voted for increasing taxes on the upper class. Either that, or taxes goes up for everybody.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-boehner-fiscal-cliff-taxes-20121129,0,4107018.story

And where are the budget cuts they ALSO voted for?

[avatar4321]

Since when are there non-conservative Republicans?

Since the beginning of the Conservative movement.

[avatar4321]

well him and Obama had lunch today, i had a felling that it might have something to do with getting the GOP to cave??

Romney has no control over Congress. He never has and it's unlikely that he ever will at this point.

[avatar4321]

Trigg. We are learning the hard way. Hatred isn't confined only to those we disagree with.

Then let's mess with the lesson and start using love when hate is expressed.

[avatar4321]

Exactly, so far bambam is just playing politics. He knows that taxing the rich isn't going to make a dent in the debt, but it sells well with the uneducated masses.

It's going to make things worse. Obama is always advocating policies that will make things worse. He knows this will make things worse as he has said as much in the past.

So why does he want things to get worse for the country?

[revelarts]

I think the conservatives should jump on the leak and explain what they believe will happen to the debt, the economy, employment. They should try to be concerned, not mean-spirited, they should emphasize that this was what Obama promised, it's what is happening, he owns it. The Democrats too!

The real problem is when it doesn't work. That's why conservatives need to get out front.

the republicans have been saying they are for less taxes and small gov't for 30 yrs..
cutting taxes for the rich only is not what I signed on for. 30 years of broken promises on this front leaves me cold to ANYTHING the republican congress people have to say.

they don't mean it. it's political games. I'm not buying any more PEP TALKS. VOTE for smaller gov't and taxes, don't compromise AGAIN and tell me it's the democrats fault.


It's all smoke and mirrors anyways. If through loopholes a wealthy person pays a 15% rate instead of 35%, do you honestly believe he's going to pay more than 15% if the rate goes up to 39%?

The rich didn't get there by letting the gov't take all their money.
they'll take there $$ elsewhere to protect it if they have to.

[gabosaurus]

Republicans have held the budget hostage for the last two years while trying to whittle away "fat" that doesn't exist. Additional revenue will be gained where it can be best acquired.
Next thing that needs to happen is to close the glaring tax loopholes, especially in large American companies who use offshore loopholes to avoid paying taxes.


And where are the budget cuts they ALSO voted for?

We will discuss the defense budget at a later time.

[tailfins]

Republicans have held the budget hostage for the last two years while trying to whittle away "fat" that doesn't exist. Additional revenue will be gained where it can be best acquired.
Next thing that needs to happen is to close the glaring tax loopholes, especially in large American companies who use offshore loopholes to avoid paying taxes.



We will discuss the defense budget at a later time.


When what you're proposing is implemented, it has the effect of freezing out small players because only large corporations can afford the army of lawyers necessary to stay in business. Look what is happening to small banks. Heavy taxes and heavy regulation has an anti-competitive result.

[DragonStryk72]

We will discuss the defense budget at a later time.

You brought it up, so yes, we will talk about it, and talk about it now. Don't you dare bring things up only to go "Oh, well I don't wanna talk about that, cause it makes my side look bad". If you don't want to talk about these things, stop bringing them up.

[DragonStryk72]

Republicans have held the budget hostage for the last two years while trying to whittle away "fat" that doesn't exist. Additional revenue will be gained where it can be best acquired.
Next thing that needs to happen is to close the glaring tax loopholes, especially in large American companies who use offshore loopholes to avoid paying taxes.

Wait, wait, wait.... you're saying there is NO government waste? Nothing, not one thing that can be cut? Then Obama was openly lying to everyone when he said there would be cuts, and is still lying to us?

So basically, Obama has no standard he is actually held to, and is allowed to rampantly lie to get what he wants. However, it's the Republicans who are the villains in this? "Held it hostage"? What about the two years before that where they couldn't pass a budget with a Dem president, Dem controlled Senate, and Dem Controlled House? How many more cop outs for your side?

[Robert A Whit]

Republicans have held the budget hostage for the last two years while trying to whittle away "fat" that doesn't exist. Additional revenue will be gained where it can be best acquired.
Next thing that needs to happen is to close the glaring tax loopholes, especially in large American companies who use offshore loopholes to avoid paying taxes.



We will discuss the defense budget at a later time.

You can measure the enthusiasim for the rich paying MORE taxes by the number of deductions their well paid accountants locate.

[Kathianne]

Now could the conservative leadership take a bad hand and make it worse? Sure enough! http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/29/is-john-boehner-dumb-enough-to-take-400
Is Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-Ohio) really so dumb - or unprincipled - that he will buy into a plan that raises $1.2 trillion in tax revenue starting next year in exchange for $400 billion in entitlement cuts between 2023 and 2033? That's what Politico is reporting: No principles, no story to tell. Just more of the same.

[Missileman]

Republicans have held the budget hostage for the last two years while trying to whittle away "fat" that doesn't exist. Additional revenue will be gained where it can be best acquired.
Next thing that needs to happen is to close the glaring tax loopholes, especially in large American companies who use offshore loopholes to avoid paying taxes.



We will discuss the defense budget at a later time.

What budget would that be? The Dem led Senate hasn't proposed one in over 3 years. If you're talking about Obama's proposal, it's not really fair to blame its non-passage on the Republicans when not a single Dem voted for it either.

[Kathianne]

Like the Twilight Zone: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323751104578149683529641150.html

[quote] * Updated November 29, 2012, 8:07 p.m. ET This Unserious White House The president makes the GOP a fiscal-cliff offer he knows they will refuse. * By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL

...

It was something out of Wonderland and Oz combined. According to sources on Capitol Hill, the White House wants Republicans to pony up $960 billion in immediate tax increases, which will come from hiking the top marginal rates and increasing capital gains and dividends taxes. That is just for starters. The administration also wants the GOP to surrender an additional $600 billion in revenue via later tax reforms. The president's team specified no amounts or details on spending cuts. Rather, the White House wants more spending: at least $50 billion in new stimulus, an extension of unemployment insurance, a one-year deferral of the sequester, new money to refinance underwater mortgages, a Medicare-doctor fix . . . and a partridge in a pear tree.

Oh, the White House also wants Congress to give Mr. Obama the authority to increase the debt limit, whenever he wants, as much as he wants. What do Republicans get in return? Next year, the White House will agree to talk to the GOP about cutting as much as $400 billion from entitlement programs.

Maybe.

If Democrats get around to it. Which they won't—because they'll have everything they've wanted. How to put this tax-and-more-spending offer in perspective? It is far in excess of what the Democrats asked for in last year's debt-limit standoff—when the political configuration in Washington was exactly the same. It is far more than the president's own Democratic Senate has ever been able to pass, even with a filibuster-proof majority. It is far more than the president himself campaigned on this year. But the president's offer is very much in keeping with his history of insisting that every negotiation consist of the other side giving him everything he wants. That approach has given him the reputation as the modern president least able to forge a consensus.

...

[Larrymc]

Larrymc. Lot's of people have had lunch today. Were all of them responsible for getting the GOP to cave too?how many of them ran for President, how many of them could make Obama appear to reach across the isle, i didn't say he did i said if he did

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Like the Twilight Zone: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323751104578149683529641150.html

[quote] * Updated November 29, 2012, 8:07 p.m. ET This Unserious White House The president makes the GOP a fiscal-cliff offer he knows they will refuse. * By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL

...

It was something out of Wonderland and Oz combined. According to sources on Capitol Hill, the White House wants Republicans to pony up $960 billion in immediate tax increases, which will come from hiking the top marginal rates and increasing capital gains and dividends taxes. That is just for starters. The administration also wants the GOP to surrender an additional $600 billion in revenue via later tax reforms. The president's team specified no amounts or details on spending cuts. Rather, the White House wants more spending: at least $50 billion in new stimulus, an extension of unemployment insurance, a one-year deferral of the sequester, new money to refinance underwater mortgages, a Medicare-doctor fix . . . and a partridge in a pear tree.

Oh, the White House also wants Congress to give Mr. Obama the authority to increase the debt limit, whenever he wants, as much as he wants. What do Republicans get in return? Next year, the White House will agree to talk to the GOP about cutting as much as $400 billion from entitlement programs.

Maybe.

If Democrats get around to it. Which they won't—because they'll have everything they've wanted. How to put this tax-and-more-spending offer in perspective? It is far in excess of what the Democrats asked for in last year's debt-limit standoff—when the political configuration in Washington was exactly the same. It is far more than the president's own Democratic Senate has ever been able to pass, even with a filibuster-proof majority. It is far more than the president himself campaigned on this year. But the president's offer is very much in keeping with his history of insisting that every negotiation consist of the other side giving him everything he wants. That approach has given him the reputation as the modern president least able to forge a consensus.

...

Actually what they want is for the Republicans to stand firm and reject what they offer. They want to be able to blame what is coming totally on the Republicans and making such a public offer, getting a very public rejection suits them. However by asking for so very much should the opposition cave they get that benefit plus that of having the opposition to appear weak and having to submit to the wrath of its base ! The way they see it, its a win /win for them! Of course they can only get by with such bullshat because they have the soldout media covering and lying for them. Americans have forgotten how important for the health, security and survival of our Republic is the Free and Independent Press. Our nation has no Free Press, what exists today is a mouth organ for the sold out dem party.. A TOTAL PROPAGANDA MACHINE.. -Tyr

[fj1200]

NBC news just reported that there will infact be raised taxes on the wealthy with no mention of cutting anything from the budget. Well we shall see if our so called cliff has been elieviated.

The default, no-vote, position right now is a tax increase. The Dems should embrace it.

[fj1200]

Republicans have held the budget hostage for the last two years while trying to whittle away "fat" that doesn't exist. Additional revenue will be gained where it can be best acquired.

Tax rates do not determine tax revenues.


Next thing that needs to happen is to close the glaring tax loopholes, especially in large American companies who use offshore loopholes to avoid paying taxes.

So we should make American businesses at an even greater disadvantage globally? That would be par for the course; not smart.

[Voted4Reagan]

Since when are there non-conservative Republicans?

Rudy Giuliani, Michael Bloomberg, John Lindsey...All Liberal Republicans that were pro choice and Pro Gay Rights. All 3 of them mayor of NYC

you really are politically unaware...arent you?

or are you just an idiot?

[Larrymc]

The default, no-vote, position right now is a tax increase. The Dems should embrace it.im thinking they traded one disaster for another, the rich will protect there money by pulling it out of the economy

[Larrymc]

Rudy Giuliani, Michael Bloomberg, John Lindsey...All Liberal Republicans that were pro choice and Pro Gay Rights. All 3 of them mayor of NYC

you really are politically unaware...arent you?

or are you just an idiot?there are Democrats that claim to be against Abortion and Gay rights, you can find a handful of confused people in any party, so whats your point

[fj1200]

im thinking they traded one disaster for another, the rich will protect there money by pulling it out of the economy

Of course they'll do what they can but I don't think this particular round will result in a mass exodus to Galt's Gulch.

[Larrymc]

Of course they'll do what they can but I don't think this particular round will result in a mass exodus to Galt's Gulch.what the Dems refuse to see is the rich pay for more than most already, though they pay a less percentage than others, they pay hundreds of thousands and some even millions in taxes, and they supply millions of tax payers with jobs, so when you consider there personal tax and the tax there company's generate, then the Rups stance on not taxing them more makes sense, because common sense tell you they will protect there money, so what will it do to our economy???

[fj1200]

what the Dems refuse to see is the rich pay for more...

Not true, they just don't care.

[Larrymc]

Not true, they just don't care.OK ya got me there