PM: The 11 Most Important Guns

[Kathianne]

Those that know of such things, discuss:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/the-11-most-important-guns-in-history?click=pp#slide-1

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Those that know of such things, discuss:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/the-11-most-important-guns-in-history?click=pp#slide-1

A subject sure to cause controversy. Trying to fit about forty or fifty strong contenders into 11 slots.
Narrow it down to rifles or even battle rifles and still controversy for sure.
As far as battle rifles go I say the M14 IS MY ALL AROUND TOPS.
SPRINGFIELD '03 and M1 Garand(m1-carbine too), BRIT ENFIELD M16, AND AK-47 ALL IN TOP TEN .
Not to forget the Winchester repeating rifle that brought on the newer weapons.. --Tyr

[Kathianne]

A subject sure to cause controversy. Trying to fit about forty or fifty strong contenders into 11 slots.
Narrow it down to rifles or even battle rifles and still controversy for sure.
As far as battle rifles go I say the M14 IS MY ALL AROUND TOPS.
SPRINGFIELD '03 and M1 Garand(m1-carbine too), BRIT ENFIELD M16, AND AK-47 ALL IN TOP TEN .
Not to forget the Winchester repeating rifle that brought on the newer weapons.. --Tyr

I may be wrong, but doubt this will be a controversial thread. I was more looking for some that might find better or different weapons to be top 10, though they went for 11.

For myself, not a gun aficionado, I've always been in awe of what the American Civil War produced, that should have given a 'heads up' to all involved in WWI, but failed to do so. Gatling Gun and razor wire come immediately to mind.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I may be wrong, but doubt this will be a controversial thread. I was more looking for some that might find better or different weapons to be top 10, though they went for 11.

For myself, not a gun aficionado, I've always been in awe of what the American Civil War produced, that should have given a 'heads up' to all involved in WWI, but failed to do so. Gatling Gun and razor wire come immediately to mind.

In that case the Browning 30 caliber machinegun comes to mind and the WW2 hand grenade.
Currently amazing is the stats of the newest 50 caliber sniper rifle. Also the 1911 45CAL AUTO, specificly created to serve our army that was fighting in the Philippines , they need a caliber large enough and with enough rounds to stop the drugged up warriors -Moro's that often even when hit with several 38 caliber revolver rounds still came on even after being hit many times and stabbed ,hacked to death the officers that were shooting them! At one time we had almost two thirds of our army there fighting. A-10 WARTHOG WAS ANOTHER AMAZING AND ALMOST INDESTRUCTABLE WEAPON SYSTEM.- TANK KILLER TOO--Tyr

[logroller]

I was a little disappointed the Winchester repeating rifle wasn't included too tyr. Way better than the space gun coming in last. It seems to me the title should have been battlefield firearms, not just guns. Although it wasnt worth a damn in battle, the Queen Anne pistol integrated some revolutionary technology such as a flintlock trigger group on one plate and a rifled barrel. But you had to remove the barrel to load it, so it wasnt good for much more than one shot-- which was fine for self-defense, and very popular as such, but in the battlefield it would be a one-shot club. Although the colt navy revolver was included in the list, and it was similarly slow to reload in battle and was often used as a club- and due to its open top frame design, such abuse often bent the frame. But in battle, I suppose as long as it could fire it would still get the job done. Its important to remember that war was still mostly hand to hand, bayonets and such; of course firearms increased the use of volley fire, but there was still a lot cavalry and infantry beating the crap out if each other, tons of friendly fire-- a real blood bath. Interestingly, forces would often cease fighting to remove the dead/ wounded and would issue a three volley gun salute (similar to, but not a twenty-one gun) as a signal for forces to return to fighting.

[Voted4Reagan]

American Guns:

Kentucky Long Rifle, Winchester Repeating Rifle, M-1 Garand, Thompson Sub-Machine Gun, Browning Automatic Rifle, Colt 1911-A, M-16, Colt Peacemaker

European Guns:

Maxim Machine Gun, Brown Bess Musket, SMLE Enfield Rifle, AK-47, MG-42 Machine Gun, k-98 Mauser, Uzi, Baretta 9mm, Glock 9mm


Tyr... The m-14 was and still is a great weapon but the FULL AUTO feature in the design was horrible and made it almost impossible to handle

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I was a little disappointed the Winchester repeating rifle wasn't included too tyr. Way better than the space gun coming in last. It seems to me the title should have been battlefield firearms, not just guns. Although it wasnt worth a damn in battle, the Queen Anne pistol integrated some revolutionary technology such as a flintlock trigger group on one plate and a rifled barrel. But you had to remove the barrel to load it, so it wasnt good for much more than one shot-- which was fine for self-defense, and very popular as such, but in the battlefield it would be a one-shot club. Although the colt navy revolver was included in the list, and it was similarly slow to reload in battle and was often used as a club- and due to its open top frame design, such abuse often bent the frame. But in battle, I suppose as long as it could fire it would still get the job done. Its important to remember that war was still mostly hand to hand, bayonets and such; of course firearms increased the use of volley fire, but there was still a lot cavalry and infantry beating the crap out if each other, tons of friendly fire-- a real blood bath. Interestingly, forces would often cease fighting to remove the dead/ wounded and would issue a three volley gun salute (similar to, but not a twenty-one gun) as a signal for forces to return to fighting.

That Winchester repeating rifle was the start of truly great weapons in my opinion. Of course it brought forth the ideal of accurate and repeated fire from each individual soldier. After that the advances in weapons started jumping by leaps and bounds. Now we have amazing weapons that are about maxed out in ability to improve upon.
I had a beautiful old 45/70 caliber rifle around 1973 having bought it for a mere song and a dance. Got into a money jam on a gambling debt and had to sell it to pay off my friend that I owed. I put my money on the wrong guy in a fight at the bar(our local watering hole). One of the few times I backed the wrong guy in a fight. Damn , I miss that rifle. Also sold my 1897 12 gauge pump shotgun in 1976, needed the money to help a friend out that was in very hard times, not that I was doing much better at that point. Guy I sold it to promised to keep it and sell it back to me at a decent profit in the future should I come to buy it. I went back 6 weeks later after a very good nights work on the pool table to buy it back.
The bum had sold it about a month earlier at double the price he paid for it! I tell ya such sad tales I have by the barrell full. Enough to make a grown man weep.;) Guns, I love 'em..-Tyr

[Robert A Whit]

Those that know of such things, discuss:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/the-11-most-important-guns-in-history?click=pp#slide-1

I have owned the M-1 Garand 30.06 semi automatic rifle. It was the rifle I trained with during Basic then AIT. I then was issued the M-14, essentially the same weapon with some improvements and 7.62 cal nato round. I enjoyed firing it.

I fired the .30 and .50 cal machine guns. Various models. That .50 will really rock your socks off if you have not fired one. They are massive hitters.

The .45 Cal pistol shown is also one I used and qualified with.

Army weapons I fired that are not shown are
M-60 machine gun firing 7.62 nato rounds. A fun machine gun.
BAR 30.06 machine gun. Pulls you forward as you shoot it. Well, tries to.
Flame thrower as used in WW2 and Korea. Stiff trigger and man is it hot behind it for the shooter.
3.5 Rocket launcher. Used on tanks. That I fired one day in Germany. Takes two to fire it. I loads & the shooter sights and fires it.
I forget the number of the weapon but we called it the grease gun and it is automatic and uses the same .45 cal ammo used by the .45 cal pistol. I think it compares to the UZI in use. Not very accurate but man does that slug hit with authority.

We had to shoot at targets up to 500 yards with the M-1 and they moved up for a few seconds and then went back down. They were painted to make them hard to see. The BAR I shot at 300 yards and 500 yards and the targets were fixed with bulls eyes.

I don't believe I am qualified to rank such weapons.

[Robert A Whit]

I may be wrong, but doubt this will be a controversial thread. I was more looking for some that might find better or different weapons to be top 10, though they went for 11.

For myself, not a gun aficionado, I've always been in awe of what the American Civil War produced, that should have given a 'heads up' to all involved in WWI, but failed to do so. Gatling Gun and razor wire come immediately to mind.

I agree with Tyr about the M-14. I would have bought that over the M-1 I purchased but I got the Garand for less money and it was in top shape. I sold it to a guy from New Jesey that I stay in contact with. He served as an officer in Vietnam. I sold it never having fired it.

I also sold a .45/70 Winchester. Breech loaded. I fired that rifle.
I sold my Winchester model 94. And other rifles.

[Robert A Whit]

American Guns:

Kentucky Long Rifle, Winchester Repeating Rifle, M-1 Garand, Thompson Sub-Machine Gun, Browning Automatic Rifle, Colt 1911-A, M-16, Colt Peacemaker

European Guns:

Maxim Machine Gun, Brown Bess Musket, SMLE Enfield Rifle, AK-47, MG-42 Machine Gun, k-98 Mauser, Uzi, Baretta 9mm, Glock 9mm


Tyr... The m-14 was and still is a great weapon but the FULL AUTO feature in the design was horrible and made it almost impossible to handle

I fired the M-14 on full automatic and it did jump around a lot.

When I was in Germany, I was issued a brand new M-14 but I was told that it was semi automatic but the Armory Sgt could change it to be full automatic. I never shot it.

I was fortunate to have a job that got me out of all that bad stuff. No KP, no Guard Duty, etc. Matter of fact, I seldom went out into the cold winter field exercises. I only went on 2. One I slept in duce and a half trucks to try to get warm and the next time I was in a barracks on site.

A couple weeks back I showed some of my photos I took in Germany to a guy who served at the same base only he was there some years later. I think the base I spent about a month at in the field was at Hohenfelds. Maybe some of you also went there.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Those that know of such things, discuss:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/the-11-most-important-guns-in-history?click=pp#slide-1

On that list, my top three are the Colt 1911, the M1 Garand, and the Uzi.

I've fired the Colt 1911 and the M1, but have not had the opportunity to fire the Uzi.

The Colt 1911 is not only the best designed handgun in history, it is a sleek & attractive piece of functional art. Almost nothing has changed on this weapon since the first ones were manufactured... why tamper with near perfection?

The M1 Garand was a design masterpiece as well. Using the gas pressure generated when firing to expel the spent cartridge and chamber a new round was genius. The effective range of over 400 yards was, at the time, outstanding, and it was used extensively during WWII and Korea.

The Uzi. What can you really say? It is possibly the toughest automatic weapon of it's time. Improvments and variants have been numerous, but it has always been one tough little weapon. You can bury it in sand, dunk it in water, bang the hell out of it, and it still fires. Check out this blonde doing full-auto at a range. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSbc1bv5ReE&feature=endscreen&NR=1 I'm not sure which is hotter, the Uzi or the blonde ;)

[darin]

I tend to agree with the list; looks about right - except for #11. Mostly because that's not a grenade launcher; that, I believe, shoots a rifle projectile.


I think the base I spent about a month at in the field was at Hohenfelds. Maybe some of you also went there.

I am a veteran of Hohenfels! :) Spent a few cycles there training, 92-95

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A truly great rifle --

http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2203&cid=8



http://www.debatepolicy.com/Webcontent/images/2010-2/201022517922-leeenfield4rifle_ms.jpg
Lee-Enfield No. 4 RifleThe Lee-Enfield No. 4 Rifle served the British Army during World War II and beyond.By NRA Staff


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In 1939, the British soldier was still armed with the same rifle his father, or perhaps even his grandfather, carried. The Short, Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) delivered sterling service from the mud of Flanders to the farthest reaches of the Empire. With Hitler’s war machine on the move, the British needed an accurate, mass-production rifle. Thanks to inter-war development, an improved and simplified design was waiting in the wings, and the No. 4 Mark I rifle was adopted on November 15, 1939.
The No. 4 Mk I, chambered in the same .303 British cartridge as the SMLE, retained the better features of the SMLE (in 1926 the SMLE was renamed the No. 1 rifle), but changes were made to the receiver, bolt, stock, sights, barrel, nose cap and bayonet. While being similar in appearance and features, very few parts were completely interchangeable between the No. 4 and No. 1. The No. 4’s receiver was strengthened and squared off; requiring less milling and simplifying manufacture. A simple one-piece charger bridge to accept five-round stripper clips was fitted into grooves on the top of the receiver, as opposed to the No. 1’s rounded bridge. The SMLE’s complex-to-manufacture nose cap was discarded in favor of a milled, and later stamped, front reinforcing band and a simplified sight guard. The No. 4 also had a heavier free-floating barrel, which protruded from the fore-end and eliminated the need for precision full-length bedding.
No. 4s had four types of aperture backsights. The Mk I micrometer backsight was made of milled steel with a battle sight set for 300 yards, which when flipped up was adjustable for elevation out to 1,300 yards. The Mk II had a simple, stamped, two-setting aperture sight. The Mks III and IV were also made from stampings, but, like the Mk I, had provisions for sighting from 300 to 1,300 yards.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had mine for 16 years. Sold it along with a TANKER/PARATROOPER model SKS carbine early last year to pay some medical bills.
I've regretted selling every gun that I've ever sold while having never regretted buying any gun that I ever bought. Guns, I simpy love 'em.. My wife and older brother have asked me , why do you sell your guns for money but never any of your books from your huge book collection? My answer is, the guns are easier to replace, the books are harder to find and more valuable to me as I only collect hardback , first editions and as many as I can get that are signed by the author. Still each time I am tempted to go with the books because I love guns so much I just cant do it. I plan on that library being my son's someday. I want the influence reading those books can and will nurture. -Tyr

[Robert A Whit]

I tend to agree with the list; looks about right - except for #11. Mostly because that's not a grenade launcher; that, I believe, shoots a rifle projectile.



I am a veteran of Hohenfels! :) Spent a few cycles there training, 92-95

I was then based at Schweinfurt and was in the 3rd ID. This was 62-3. I left Germany at the end of January 64. I went to Hohenfels 1 time. That is where I fired the rocket launcher a few times.

It was not my job to fire them but some General showed up and wanted a demonstration. I was handy so the CO sent me since I worked for him and the 1st Sgt.
;)

I did not see much of the place since I was busy all day long in the office.

[Robert A Whit]

My only beef with the 1911 pistol is accuracy. Up close, you should hit a man fairly easily but at 100 yards? The bullets went all over the place.

A good demonstration is firing a .30 cal machine gun in the dark with tracers. You can lock the gun down and fire it. The pattern is a definite pattern but the bullets take various paths. If you did this, in training, you know what I am talking about.

[Marcus Aurelius]

My only beef with the 1911 pistol is accuracy. Up close, you should hit a man fairly easily but at 100 yards? The bullets went all over the place.

A good demonstration is firing a .30 cal machine gun in the dark with tracers. You can lock the gun down and fire it. The pattern is a definite pattern but the bullets take various paths. If you did this, in training, you know what I am talking about.

Why on earth would you try to use a Colt 1911 at 100 yards?

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/defining-handgun-accuracy


And IHMSA (silhouette) shooters often get their specialty long-range single-shot guns to produce one to 2-inch groups at 100 yards, naturally with handloaded ammo.

The Colt 1911 was not designed for 100 yard shooting. It was designed for short range defense, and it excels at that. To expect accuracy at 100 yards distance to be as good as you seem to, is a little bit much.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

My only beef with the 1911 pistol is accuracy. Up close, you should hit a man fairly easily but at 100 yards? The bullets went all over the place.

A good demonstration is firing a .30 cal machine gun in the dark with tracers. You can lock the gun down and fire it. The pattern is a definite pattern but the bullets take various paths. If you did this, in training, you know what I am talking about.

My friend maybe it was your shooting that was all over the place, no disrespect intended. I've shot my 1911 model 45 caliber Kimber at 20, 30, 40 and 50 yards and it shot quite good. Short barrelled automatic pistols are not designed for long range shooting. Much longer barrelled target pistols are. --Tyr

[Robert A Whit]

Why on earth would you try to use a Colt 1911 at 100 yards?


I would not.


The Colt 1911 was not designed for 100 yard shooting. It was designed for short range defense, and it excels at that. To expect accuracy at 100 yards distance to be as good as you seem to, is a little bit much.

Well, if you want to shoot a man, why wait till he gets that close? Matter of fact, why not use the Greasegun since it uses the same ammo?

I once owned a nice Ruger .357 magnum and that is what I am talking about.

I dunno, but when I shot the 1911 in the Army, even at short ranges it was not my idea of optimum.

Chalk it up to personal preferences is all.

[CSM]

Military weapons: I love the M1911 .45; carried one through most of my Army career. I like the M14 as well (which, as has been stated, is more of an upgraded M1), M16 was ok. M60 machine gun and .50 cal are awesome and still favorites of mine. M79 grenade launcher was a hoot to fire but not one of my favorites in a firefight. For really big jobs, I like the 155 mm cannon, either SP or towed!

Civilian firearms: Model 94 Winchester (.32 cal is what I own; handed down from my dad) is pretty good as a deer rifle where I live. I have fired the Enfield and it's fairly accurate too. 12 gauge pump is almost standard around here as well. I do not care for the 9mm handguns though they seem to be popular. I really like the .308 bolt action (Winchester as well); VERY accurate at long range. The .357 revolver is a pretty good all around handgun. Of course, anything in .22 cal is fun and inexpensive to shoot. Finally, I love my air guns; inexpensive to shoot, great for teaching the grandkids about firearms, extremely accurate within their range and even useful in keeping the squirrel extremists/terrorists from invading my attic.

[Voted4Reagan]

Military weapons: I love the M1911 .45; carried one through most of my Army career. I like the M14 as well (which, as has been stated, is more of an upgraded M1), M16 was ok. M60 machine gun and .50 cal are awesome and still favorites of mine. M79 grenade launcher was a hoot to fire but not one of my favorites in a firefight. For really big jobs, I like the 155 mm cannon, either SP or towed!

Civilian firearms: Model 94 Winchester (.32 cal is what I own; handed down from my dad) is pretty good as a deer rifle where I live. I have fired the Enfield and it's fairly accurate too. 12 gauge pump is almost standard around here as well. I do not care for the 9mm handguns though they seem to be popular. I really like the .308 bolt action (Winchester as well); VERY accurate at long range. The .357 revolver is a pretty good all around handgun. Of course, anything in .22 cal is fun and inexpensive to shoot. Finally, I love my air guns; inexpensive to shoot, great for teaching the grandkids about firearms, extremely accurate within their range and even useful in keeping the squirrel extremists/terrorists from invading my attic.

All small stuff.... if you really want to strike fear into your enemy... only one rifle will do...

The MK-VII/.50 Cal Naval Rifle

Play Music Video first.....lol


http://youtu.be/16yWFdSdOyM


http://youtu.be/vj-15O-BTDw

[Larrymc]

Those that know of such things, discuss:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/the-11-most-important-guns-in-history?click=pp#slide-1Pistals and hunting guns or sufficient for protection, while i think automatics shouldn't be completely ban, you should have special requirements such as military training, and even then have more strict control on who has them and were they or.

[CSM]

All small stuff.... if you really want to strike fear into your enemy... only one rifle will do...

The MK-VII/.50 Cal Naval Rifle

Play Music Video first.....lol


http://youtu.be/16yWFdSdOyM


http://youtu.be/vj-15O-BTDw

LOL. It is a bit difficult to store a battleship in your back yard though.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

All small stuff.... if you really want to strike fear into your enemy... only one rifle will do...

The MK-VII/.50 Cal Naval Rifle

Play Music Video first.....lol


http://youtu.be/16yWFdSdOyM


http://youtu.be/vj-15O-BTDw

Freaking -A- video!!!-- :beer:--Tyr

[CSM]

Pistals and hunting guns or sufficient for protection, while i think automatics shouldn't be completely ban, you should have special requirements such as military training, and even then have more strict control on who has them and were they or.

Actually, there is a process where a private citizen can own automatic weapons. The process and requirements are VERY strict but it is doable. As for training, unles you are strictly collecting firearms for their intrinsic beauty/value, most gun enthusiasts have little use for automatic weapon. They are fun to shoot but when you realize they can consume HUNDREDS of rounds in minutes and then consider the COST of that ammunition, they are not very practical. It does take training to develop skill in the use of machineguns and most private citizens either can't be bothered or can't afford it. Heck, even criminals do not want or need automatic weapons (for the most part). So unless you really are planning on starting a revolution or civil war, automatic weapons are not necessary or desireable. By the way, "assault weapons" as defined by the anti - gun crowd are not necessarily automatic weapons/machineguns. I can tell you that a bayonet lug on a barrel has very little to do with ballistics or performance.

[Larrymc]

LOL. It is a bit difficult to store a battleship in your back yard though.Only need one of them needed in the neighbor hood, got to love the Governnator

[CSM]

Only need one of them needed in the neighbor hood, got to love the Governnator

True enough. There are a few problems with that particular weapon system however like obtaining and storing the ammo; finding a crew proficient in its use and of course, finding big enough child safety locks for the thing.

[Dilloduck]

It could be argued that the 91/30 Mosin Nagant (and sniper version) stopped Hitler.

[CSM]

It could be argued that the 91/30 Mosin Nagant (and sniper version) stopped Hitler.
That and the PPSh41.

[fj1200]

It could be argued that the 91/30 Mosin Nagant (and sniper version) stopped Hitler.


That and the PPSh41.

Isn't the argument that the guns on the list led to the development of what you mention?