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Kathianne
11-26-2012, 10:57 PM
It's already happening:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/us/politics/lesbian-republicans-long-a-rare-political-breed-raise-their-profiles.html


November 25, 2012
<nyt_headline version="1.0" type=" ">Republican and Lesbian, and Fighting for Acceptance of Both Identities</nyt_headline> <nyt_byline> By SARAH WHEATON (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/w/sarah_wheaton/index.html) </nyt_byline> <nyt_correction_top> </nyt_correction_top> In 1996, Kathryn Lehman was a soon-to-be married lawyer working for Republicans in the House of Representatives. One of her major accomplishments: helping to write the law that bans federal recognition of same-sex marriages (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/same_sex_marriage/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).


Today, Ms. Lehman, 53, no longer has a husband, and no longer identifies as straight. And she is a lobbyist for Freedom to Marry (http://www.freedomtomarry.org/), which is devoted to overturning the very law she helped write, the Defense of Marriage Act.


But Ms. Lehman is still a fervent Republican.


“I’m trying to break the stereotype that all gays and lesbians, especially lesbians, are Democrats,” she said.


Although the Republican Party (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/republican_party/index.html?inline=nyt-org) has long drawn gay men who believe in the party’s message of small government and a strong military, Republican lesbians are a rare political breed.
“Oh, we’re like unicorns,” said Erin Simpson, 51, who cites “personal liberty” as a fundamental value and teaches firearms safety in Tucson. Ms. Simpson, who came out in February, was “very disheartened” by Mitt Romney’s loss — one fueled, in part, by overwhelming gay support for President Obama (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/us/politics/gay-vote-seen-as-crucial-in-obamas-victory.html?hp).


There is no way to measure the true numbers, but gay activists say that in many cases, these “unicorns” were Republicans before they were gay — driven by conservative upbringings, economic issues and libertarian principles. They often did not acknowledge their sexual orientation, even to themselves, until middle age.


In interviews, these Republicans said they often feel like the odd women out, in their party and among other lesbians. But they are beginning to make their presence known, said Casey Pick, a program director and the first woman on the staff of the Log Cabin Republicans (http://www.logcabin.org/site/c.nsKSL7PMLpF/b.5468093/k.BE4C/Home.htm), a gay-rights group.
“There is a presence of mature, established Republican women who are being more vocal of late,” Ms. Pick said.


These women fear that they are losing the younger generations, who are coming out earlier and are even more likely to identify with the Democratic Party now that Mr. Obama has embraced gay marriage.


The election results (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/us/same-sex-marriage-gains-cheer-gay-rights-advocates.html), including victories for advocates of same-sex marriage on ballot measures in four states, offer ammunition for Ms. Lehman when she talks to Republicans on Capitol Hill.

Ms. Lehman said last week that some conservatives had already begun saying to her: “You know, it’s not really worth pursuing a federal marriage amendment. This really should be left to the states.”


“That is the more consistent conservative position,” she added.


Ms. Lehman said she felt no guilt over her role in the law banning federal recognition of same-sex marriage. Her motivation, she said, is her gratitude for those who fought for gay rights decades before she knew the cause was her own.


If it were not for them, “I would not be living the wonderful life that I am right now with Julie,” Ms. Lehman said, referring to her partner, Julie Conway, a Republican fund-raiser, with whom she lives in Alexandria, Va.


“I am uniquely suited to do this, so I really need to do it,” she said.
The phenomenon of coming out later in life is not unique to conservatives, but it is more common among women, said Lisa M. Diamond, a professor of psychology at the University of Utah who studies identity and sexual orientation.


“Women are generally socialized to not spend a lot of time thinking about their sexual desires,” Professor Diamond said.


Republican lesbians rejected suggestions that they might have come out earlier if they held more liberal views. In Professor Diamond’s research, the delay usually has more to do with family and religion than ideology.


Cathy Smith’s upbringing was “not rigidly Catholic,” but when she came out in 2010, she said, her mother told her that “she loved me, but she didn’t want me to lose my soul.”
Ms. Smith, a 53-year-old teacher in North Carolina, said that despite signs that she was attracted to women, she was “clueless” in her youth.


“I always wanted to find a husband because my mother felt that women should be married,” Ms. Smith said.


At 18, she registered as a Republican, and though she briefly reconsidered her party affiliation when she came out, Ms. Smith voted for Mr. Romney, albeit reluctantly. Echoing the more than a dozen women interviewed, Ms. Smith said liberal lesbians react more negatively to her political views than conservatives do to her sexual orientation.


“Mention that you’re Christian or mention that you’re Republican and suddenly you just get vilified,” she said. “That may be one of the reasons for the lack of visibility of gay women in the Republican Party.”


Still, she said, “What good are gay rights if your country is falling apart?”
Like many Republican women who have followed her path, Ms. Smith is “still divided in the mind about whether or not gay people should be allowed to marry,” she said, though she supports civil unions.

...

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-26-2012, 11:11 PM
It's already happening:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/us/politics/lesbian-republicans-long-a-rare-political-breed-raise-their-profiles.html

What do we win when you give up core principles and abandone our morals? So we win office for a few years but generations of Americans have to live with , suffer under the evils that we embraced , how is that better or to be a desired outcome?
A man may stand on principle backed by moral courage and truth but he can not embrace evil and appease the enemies of that truth at the same time.
One can not have the whole cake after eating a great part of it too! -Tyr

Kathianne
11-26-2012, 11:17 PM
What do we win when you give up core principles and abandone our morals? So we win office for a few years but generations of Americans have to live with , suffer under the evils that we embraced , how is that better or to be a desired outcome?
A man may stand on principle backed by moral courage and truth but he can not embrace evil and appease the enemies of that truth at the same time.
One can not have the whole cake after eating a great part of it too! -Tyr

What did 'you' give up?

fj1200
11-27-2012, 09:11 AM
It's already happening:

I would hope that would include some in my neighborhood... but I'm not hopeful.




What do we win when you give up core principles and abandone our morals?
What did 'you' give up?

ibid. or "abandon"?

tailfins
11-27-2012, 01:14 PM
I think the GOP needs to slice the demographics differently than what the left wants us to. Republicans and conservatives can gain ground by addressing and solving more urban problems without giving principles away.

Kathianne
11-27-2012, 01:30 PM
I think the GOP needs to slice the demographics differently than what the left wants us to. Republicans and conservatives can gain ground by addressing and solving more urban problems without giving principles away.

I agree. In my area there's a group of conservatives that have set up a 'skills' program that helps people with resume building, filling out forms for attending community college, has donated clothing appropriate for businesses interviews, videos mock interviews for jobs, and has local barber and beauty shops to donate 1 cut per person for interviews. They 12 computers to build and print resumes. A local office supply donates printing paper and also has resume paper, (which people get only when their resume is 'done.' At that point, they may have as many copies as they have addresses for. They are mailed out from the place.

Now the truth is, this is not an area of 'desperate straits'; though there is some need, as they've been opened that I know of, at least 3 years. How much better would this be in an impoverished area?

Did I mention that folks have to come in by 9 and they are clocked out? They have to donate the same number of hours per month as they receive, until they find a job?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-27-2012, 06:50 PM
What did 'you' give up?

I have not gave up anything but some have given up their very souls to the behemoth that strides the nation devouring all it can. They'll take your soul if you let them. One little piece at a time. They lot in a landslide in the 2010 elections and what did we see them give up after that? Nothing! They doubled down on their wicked desires.
And we got their Lord again... -Tyr

Kathianne
11-27-2012, 06:51 PM
I have not gave up anything but some have given up their very souls to the behemoth that strides the nation devouring all it can. They'll take your soul if you let them. One little piece at a time. They lot in a landslide in the 2010 elections and what did we see them give up after that? Nothing! They doubled down on their wicked desires.
And we got their Lord again... -Tyr

If it's all or nothing, the messaged will lose. Choose battles, carefully.

Robert A Whit
11-27-2012, 07:58 PM
I guess at my age, I would be of no good unless I commented on our losses of yesterday.

I see no mention of the ass kicking democrats gave us when LBJ won. I voted for LBJ and remember it very well.

He not only beat republicans, he beat them so bad he also collected the entire congress.

And that man stood tall like a giant since he not only ran his department, but he ran the congress.

He did not ask Congress, he told them.

Obama is a wimp compared to LBJ.

So we later won. I was not the winner then, but I am republican today and that is all that counts other than I did this and it changed after Johnson when Nixon won.

When Clinton won, I purchased and read a book that again lamented Democrats taking back the country. We then won again.

Bush tried to be part republican and part democrat.

Then he got hated.

See how it works?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-27-2012, 08:13 PM
If it's all or nothing, the messaged will lose. Choose battles, carefully.

^^^^^^^ Wise words indeed!

One thing is for sure we will never out promise the Dem/libs ,so going the giving "freebies" route isnt going to work. Whatever we would declare that we'd give away they'd just one up it and demonise us as liars to boot.. If we want to save the nation we must find a way to demolish and rebuild the public education system and make damn sure the liberal ideals are not incorporated into it again! I mark that the change in the education system that began in earnest in the 1960's , now after 50 years growth we arent going to solve it quickly. America's Spirit has been broken by socialist education one decade at a time. We now have younger generations thinking socialism is the way to go! Too young ,too dumb and to ignorant of the real world to reject the feel good fantasy projected in the current ideals put forth about socialism. Lazy parents, corrupt government and plans instigated from within by leftist enemies have borne fruit. We are in a hole we allowed to be dug very deep. SHOVELING DEEPER IS NOT THE WAY TO GO. We have to start sacrificing and if necessary fighting to save ourselves and our nation! Too late for ONLY tame measures IMHO .
I choose first to speak about it, to try to educate others about the dire threats. Should ever a time arrive I will make other arrangements to protect my children and grandchildrens's lives and future. --TYR

Kathianne
11-27-2012, 08:25 PM
^^^^^^^ Wise words indeed!

One thing is for sure we will never out promise the Dem/libs ,so going the giving "freebies" route isnt going to work. Whatever we would declare that we'd give away they'd just one up it and demonise us as liars to boot.. If we want to save the nation we must find a way to demolish and rebuild the public education system and make damn sure the liberal ideals are not incorporated into it again! I mark that the change in the education system that began in earnest in the 1960's , now after 50 years growth we arent going to solve it quickly. America's Spirit has been broken by socialist education one decade at a time. We now have younger generations thinking socialism is the way to go! Too young ,too dumb and to ignorant of the real world to reject the feel good fantasy projected in the current ideals put forth about socialism. Lazy parents, corrupt government and plans instigated from within by leftist enemies have borne fruit. We are in a hole we allowed to be dug very deep. SHOVELING DEEPER IS NOT THE WAY TO GO. We have to start sacrificing and if necessary fighting to save ourselves and our nation! Too late for ONLY tame measures IMHO .
I choose first to speak about it, to try to educate others about the dire threats. Should ever a time arrive I will make other arrangements to protect my children and grandchildrens's lives and future. --TYR

Is this how conservatives will win?


I choose first to speak about it, to try to educate others about the dire threats. Should ever a time arrive I will make other arrangements to protect my children and grandchildrens's lives and future. --TYR

I'm just asking. Is this the message we carry forward? An aware person might say, 'what are the dire threats? What arrangements are you referring to here? We might want to do the same if logical.

Larrymc
11-27-2012, 08:46 PM
It's already happening:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/us/politics/lesbian-republicans-long-a-rare-political-breed-raise-their-profiles.html
But we don't need anymore fighting for the immoral agenda

Kathianne
11-27-2012, 08:48 PM
But we don't need anymore fighting for the immoral agenda

Depends on your definition of immoral.

If it's that narrow, I do hope you are in minority.

Missileman
11-27-2012, 08:57 PM
Is this how conservatives will win?



I'm just asking. Is this the message we carry forward? An aware person might say, 'what are the dire threats? What arrangements are you referring to here? We might want to do the same if logical.

Conservatives will win when they put forward candidates who will focus on the Constitution instead of the Bible. Candidates who have it the other way around should enter the clergy and not politics. That's not going to be a popular sentiment for some of the folks here, but it's reality.

Larrymc
11-27-2012, 09:04 PM
^^^^^^^ Wise words indeed!

One thing is for sure we will never out promise the Dem/libs ,so going the giving "freebies" route isnt going to work. Whatever we would declare that we'd give away they'd just one up it and demonise us as liars to boot.. If we want to save the nation we must find a way to demolish and rebuild the public education system and make damn sure the liberal ideals are not incorporated into it again! I mark that the change in the education system that began in earnest in the 1960's , now after 50 years growth we arent going to solve it quickly. America's Spirit has been broken by socialist education one decade at a time. We now have younger generations thinking socialism is the way to go! Too young ,too dumb and to ignorant of the real world to reject the feel good fantasy projected in the current ideals put forth about socialism. Lazy parents, corrupt government and plans instigated from within by leftist enemies have borne fruit. We are in a hole we allowed to be dug very deep. SHOVELING DEEPER IS NOT THE WAY TO GO. We have to start sacrificing and if necessary fighting to save ourselves and our nation! Too late for ONLY tame measures IMHO .
I choose first to speak about it, to try to educate others about the dire threats. Should ever a time arrive I will make other arrangements to protect my children and grandchildrens's lives and future. --TYRTo long Christians have set on there hands and set silent convinced it was the Christian way, Letting Separation of Church and State Become something it never was, and twist our Freedom to were it almost don't even include religions and family values, The new Freedom of speech includes filthy language, Song Lyrics and Pornography, and what dose it mean now that we have reelected the most Anti-America and Anti-God President in history????

Kathianne
11-27-2012, 09:08 PM
Conservatives will win when they put forward candidates who will focus on the Constitution instead of the Bible. Candidates who have it the other way around should enter the clergy and not politics. That's not going to be a popular sentiment for some of the folks here, but it's reality.

I'm not going full tilt to your atheist agenda, but there is something to be said for the main. Truth is, Evangelicals hate, deplore, and denigrate Catholics and others they don't see in lock step with them. They brought down Romney and some of them are proud of that.

Missileman
11-27-2012, 09:22 PM
I'm not going full tilt to your atheist agenda, but there is something to be said for the main. Truth is, Evangelicals hate, deplore, and denigrate Catholics and others they don't see in lock step with them. They brought down Romney and some of them are proud of that.

I'm not suggesting they have to abandon their religion in order to get elected, just leave it out of their JOB.

Larrymc
11-27-2012, 09:31 PM
I'm not going full tilt to your atheist agenda, but there is something to be said for the main. Truth is, Evangelicals hate, deplore, and denigrate Catholics and others they don't see in lock step with them. They brought down Romney and some of them are proud of that.i don't think Christians caused Romney to lose, the truth is Obama promised everyone what they wanted, and after all he offered to others he even threw the Religious a bone when leaving God totally out didn't go as well as he thought, its sad that we have a population that is consumed with there on agenda over the good of the Country, every other President has had some principles about what they would stand for but i haven't seen a level that Obama wont stoop to for a vote

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-27-2012, 09:37 PM
To long Christians have set on there hands and set silent convinced it was the Christian way, Letting Separation of Church and State Become something it never was, and twist our Freedom to were it almost don't even include religions and family values, The new Freedom of speech includes filthy language, Song Lyrics and Pornography, and what dose it mean now that we have reelected the most Anti-America and Anti-God President in history????

Was a time when we had freedom of speech and people were loathe to use it for filth and perversion. These days its used for that and also encouraged /celebrated for that as well. Our nation and Constitution depended upon a moral society to function and advance. The leftists and America's enemies knew that truth and have sought desperately to destroy that moral society. We have freedom --OF-- religion not freedom -- FROM--- religion. This much applauded and implemented agenda to spread the ideal of freedom -FROM-- religion is pure bullshat from top to bottom. The Founders spoke of God, swore oaths to the Christian God and prayed to God. They did this as elected government officials and in government buildings. They asked for God's blessings in National endeavors and in times of war. They never rejected God, they did however believe that government had no right to establish ahy one religion over the others. For they knew should it be allowed to do so the other religions would soon be rigidly persecuted..


Freedom of, not freedom from... :salute: --Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-27-2012, 09:49 PM
Is this how conservatives will win?



I'm just asking. Is this the message we carry forward? An aware person might say, 'what are the dire threats? What arrangements are you referring to here? We might want to do the same if logical.

My friend, simply put my preparedness to be adequately prepared to fight and willing to do what is necessary is what I referenced. Others may feel thats not right or thats not necessary. I've always found that the major reason most people die in dangerous times and situations is that they are unprepared. Such preparedness must be material and mental.. Mental toughness and knowledge of what is a real threat. Complete with the spirit not to hesitate to do the hard tasks. When the "fit hits the shan " those prepared to fight will stand best chance of survival and less chance of ever being a slave. I can assure you I will never be a damn slave. One can not enslave a man thats very willing and dedicated to dying rather than becoming one. No boast of heroism here by me , just acknowledging that Id fight and die to defend my family (its future), my friends and my nation. At my age thats no great sacrifice but is simply holding my principles dear and unconquerable.-Tyr

Robert A Whit
11-27-2012, 10:15 PM
Depends on your definition of immoral.

If it's that narrow, I do hope you are in minority.

Narrow?

If you mean the new guy, in what fashion was he narrow?

BTW, how do you define immoral?

Robert A Whit
11-27-2012, 10:31 PM
I'm not going full tilt to your atheist agenda, but there is something to be said for the main. Truth is, Evangelicals hate, deplore, and denigrate Catholics and others they don't see in lock step with them. They brought down Romney and some of them are proud of that.

I would love to see proof that it was the Evangelicals fault that Romney did not win.

Given that Obama lost 9 million on his side, who were those that ran away from Obama?

Where I live, I admit to not having gone to any of their churches.

I might also add that the man who feeds the lion assuming to save himself pleases the lion who sets down to eat such people.

Translated. Woe is to any person who allowed Obama to win due to spite against Mitt Romney. They will pay dearly and it will be from the Democrats side rather than from republicans.