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revelarts
11-26-2012, 12:49 PM
Like NAFTA and GAT here comes the TPP, with more "giant sucking sounds"


The Trans-Pacific Partnership is the most secretive and “least transparent” trade negotiations in history.


...Luckily for the populations and societies that will be affected by the agreement, there are public research organizations and alternative media outlets campaigning against it – and they’ve even released several leaks of draft agreement chapters. From these leaks, which are not covered by mainstream corporate-controlled news outlets, we are able to get a better understanding of what the Trans-Pacific Partnership actually encompasses.

For example, public interest groups have been warning that the TPP could result in millions of lost jobs. As a letter from Congress to United States Trade Representative Ron Kirk stated, the TPP “will create binding policies on future Congresses in numerous areas,” including “those related to labor, patent and copyright, land use, food, agriculture and product standards, natural resources, the environment, professional licensing, state-owned enterprises and government procurement policies, as well as financial, healthcare, energy, telecommunications and other service sector regulations.”
In other words, as promised, the TPP goes far beyond “trade.”
Dubbed by many as “NAFTA on steroids” and a “corporate coup,” only two of the TPP’s 26 chapters actually have anything to do with trade. Most of it grants far-reaching new rights and privileges to corporations, specifically related to intellectual property rights (copyright and patent laws), as well as constraints on government regulations.
The leaked documents revealed that the Obama administration “intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations,” as Obama and Kirk have emerged as strong advocates “for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.”
In other words, the already ineffective and mostly toothless environmental, financial, and labor regulations that exist are unacceptable to the Obama administration and the 600 corporations aligned with the TPP who are giving him his orders.
The agreement stipulates that foreign corporations operating in the United States would no longer be subject to domestic U.S. laws regarding protections for the environment, finance or labor rights, and could appeal to an “international tribunal” which would be given the power to overrule American law and impose sanctions on the U.S. for violating the new “rights” of corporations.
The “international tribunal” that would dictate the laws of the countries would be staffed by corporate lawyers acting as “judges,” thus ensuring that cases taken before them have a “fair and balanced” hearing – fairly balanced in favor of corporate rights above anything else.
A public interest coalition known as Citizens Trade Campaign published a draft of the TPP chapter on “investment” revealing information about the “international tribunal” which would allow corporations to directly sue governments that have barriers to “potential profits.”
Arthur Stamoulis, the executive director of Citizens Trade Campaign, explained that the draft texts “clearly contain proposals designed to give transnational corporations special rights that go far beyond those possessed by domestic businesses and American citizens… A proposal that could have such broad effects on environmental, consumer safety and other public interest regulations deserves public scrutiny and debate. It shouldn’t be crafted behind closed doors.”
Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch, a public interest organization, undertook an analysis of the leaked document on investment and explained that the international corporate tribunal would allow corporations to overturn national laws and regulations or demand enormous sums in compensation, with the tribunal “empowered to order payment of unlimited government Treasury funds to foreign investors over TPP claims.”
Even under NAFTA, over $350 million has been paid by NAFTA-aligned governments to corporations for “barriers” to investment “rights,” including toxic waste dumps, logging rules, as well as bans on various toxic chemicals.
Because let’s be clear: for corporations, such regulations and concerns over health, safety and environmental issues are perceived solely as “barriers” to investment and profit. Thus their “government” would sue the foreign government on behalf of the corporation, on the premise that such regulations led to potential lost profits, for which the corporation should be compensated.
The TPP allows the corporations to directly sue the government in question. All of the TPP member countries, except for Australia, have agreed to adhere to the jurisdiction of this international tribunal, an unelected, anti-democratic and corporate-staffed kangaroo-court with legal authority over at least ten nations and their populations.
Further, TPP countries have not agreed on a set of obligations for corporations to meet in relation to health, labor or environmental standards, and thus a door is opened for corporations to obtain even more rights and privileges to plunder and exploit. Where corporate rights are extended, human and democratic rights are dismantled.
One of the most important areas in which the TPP has a profound effect is in relation to intellectual property rights, or copyright and patent laws. Corporations have been strong advocates of expanding intellectual property rights, namely, their intellectual property rights.
Pharmaceutical corporations are major proponents of these rights and are likely to be among the major beneficiaries of the intellectual property chapter of the TPP. The pharmaceutical industry ensured that strong patent rules were included in the 1995 World Trade Organization agreement, but ultimately felt that those rules did not go far enough.
Dean Baker, writing in the Guardian, explained that stronger patent rules establish “a government-granted monopoly, often as long as 14 years, that prohibits generic competitors from entering a market based on another company’s test results that show a drug to be safe and effective.” Baker noted that such laws are actually “the opposite of free trade” since they “involve increased government intervention in the market” and “restrict competition and lead to higher prices for consumers.”
Essentially, what this means is that in poor countries where more people need access to life-saving drugs, and at cheaper cost, it would be impossible for companies or governments to manufacture and sell cheaper generic brands of successful drugs held by multinational corporate patents. Such an agreement would hand over a monopoly of price-controls to these corporations, allowing them to set the prices as they deem fit, thus making the drugs incredibly expensive and often inaccessible to the people who need them most.
As U.S. Congressman Henry Waxman correctly noted, “In many parts of the world, access to generic drugs means the difference between life and death.”
The TPP is expected to increase such corporate patent rights more than any other agreement in history. Generic drug manufacturers in countries like Vietnam and Malaysia would suffer. So would sales of larger generics manufacturers in the U.S., Canada, and Australia, which supply low-cost drugs to much of the world.
While the United States has given up the right to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical corporations (hence the exorbitant price for drugs purchased in the U.S.), countries like New Zealand and even Canada to a lesser extent negotiate drug prices in order to keep the costs down for consumers. The TPP will grant new negotiating privileges to corporations, allowing them to appeal decisions by governments to challenge the high cost of drugs or to go with cheap alternatives. Referring to these changes, the U.S. manager of Doctors Without Borders’ Access to Medicines Campaign stated, “Bush was better than Obama on this.”
But that’s not all the TPP threatens: Internet freedom is also a major target.
The Council of Canadians (http://www.canadians.org/) and OpenMedia (http://openmedia.ca/), major campaigners for Internet freedom, have warned that the TPP would “criminalize some everyday uses of the Internet,” including music downloads as well as the combining of different media works.
OpenMedia warned that the TPP would “force service providers to collect and hand over your private data without privacy safeguards, and give media conglomerates more power to send you fines in the mail, remove online content – including entire websites – and even terminate your access to the Internet.”
Also advanced under the TPP chapter on intellectual property rights, new laws would have to be put in place by governments to regulate Internet usage. OpenMedia further warned that, from the leaked documents on intellectual property rights, “there can be heavy fines for average citizens online,” adding: “you could be fined for clicking on a link, people could be knocked off the Internet and web sites could be locked off.”
The TPP, warned OpenMedia founder Steve Anderson, “will limit innovation and free expression.” Under the TPP, there is no distinction between commercial and non-commercial copyright infringement. Thus, users who download music for personal use would face the same penalties as those who sell pirated music for profit.
Information that is created or shared on social networking sites could have Internet users fined, have their computers seized, their Internet usage terminated, or even get them a jail sentence. The TPP imposes a “three strikes” system for copyright infringement, where three violations would result in the termination of a household’s Internet access....

Because public opinion is strongly – and increasingly – against “free trade agreements,” secrecy is required in order to prevent the public from even knowing about, let alone actively opposing, agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And this, as U.S. Trade Representative Kirk explained, is a very “practical” reason for all the secrecy.
<center># # # #</center> Andrew Gavin Marshall is an independent researcher and writer based in Montreal, Canada, writing on a number of social, political, economic, and historical issues. He is also Project Manager of The People’s Book Project (http://www.thepeoplesbookproject.com/). He also hosts a weekly podcast show, “Empire, Power, and People,” here at BoilingFrogsPost.com. (http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/)





http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2012/11/23/why-so-secretive-the-trans-pacific-partnership-as-global-corporate-coup/Romney was onboard with it too BTW

fj1200
11-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Free trade good.

revelarts
11-26-2012, 02:32 PM
“The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.” – Patrick Henry


https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

What is the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP)?
The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is a secretive, multi-national trade agreement that threatens to extend restrictive intellectual property (IP) laws across the globe and rewrite international rules on its enforcement. The main problems are two-fold:
(1) IP chapter: Leaked draft texts of the agreement show that the IP chapter would have extensive negative ramifications for users’ freedom of speech, right to privacy and due process, and hinder peoples' abilities to innovate.
(2) Lack of transparency: The entire process has shut out multi-stakeholder participation and is shrouded in secrecy.
The nine nations currently negotiating the TPP are the US, Australia, Peru, Malaysia, Vietnam, New Zealand, Chile, Singapore, and Brunei Darussalam. However, Canada and Mexico have also been invited to join the negotiations and it is very likely they will join. The TPP contains a chapter on intellectual property covering copyright, trademarks, patents and perhaps, geographical indications (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indication). Since the draft text of the agreement has never been offically released to the public, we know from leaked documents, such as the February 2011 draft US TPP IP Rights Chapter [PDF] (http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/tpp-10feb2011-us-text-ipr-chapter.pdf), that US negotiators are pushing for the adoption of copyright measures far more restrictive than currently required by international treaties, including the controversial Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (https://www.eff.org/issues/acta) (ACTA)......




http://www.dfat.gov.au/fta/tpp/
Australian gov't spin doctors at work...

About the TPP negotiations
The Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) is a viable pathway for realising the vision of a free trade area of the Asia-Pacific. This agreement will build on the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement (P4) between Brunei Darussalam, Chile, New Zealand and Singapore, which entered into force in 2006.
The TPP includes the P4 Parties as well as Australia, Canada, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, the USA and Vietnam.
The Australian Government will pursue a TPP outcome that eliminates or at least substantially reduces barriers to trade and investment. The TPP is more than a traditional trade agreement; it will also deal with behind-the-border impediments to trade and investment.
It is intended that the TPP be a living agreement that remains relevant to emerging issues and allows for membership expansion. While expanded membership of the TPP is desirable, those seeking membership would need to demonstrate commitment to early and comprehensive liberalisation so as to maintain the momentum that has been generated by existing TPP parties.
Australia's decision to participate in the TPP in 2008 followed an extensive public consultation process. Overall, there was widespread interest in and support for Australia's participation in the TPP. Input received through the consultation process is being used to inform the Government's priorities and objectives for Australia's ongoing work on the TPP.
Key interests and benefits

The TPP has the potential to form a building block for Asia-Pacific regional economic integration. It is in Australia’s interests to be involved in order to shape the direction of the initiative.
Regional rules of origin will provide new opportunities for Australian exporters to tap into global supply chains.
The TPP could provide additional market access for goods and services into the markets of existing FTA and future TPP partners.
Inclusion of Investment and Financial Services chapters in the TPP could provide improved opportunities for Australian financial services providers by mitigating barriers, such as foreign restrictions on capital and investment flows.
The TPP provides a framework for engaging with Peru, a country with which we do not have an existing bilateral trade arrangement. In particular there is potential for better access for dairy products and mining services to Peru.




Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/27/pacific-free-trade-deal

The Pacific free trade deal that's anything but free
The draft TPP deal may grant new patent privileges and restrict net freedom, but it's secret – unless you're a multinational CEO


....In reality, the deal has almost nothing to do with trade: actual trade barriers between these countries are already very low. The TPP is an effort to use the holy grail of free trade to impose conditions and override domestic laws in a way that would be almost impossible if the proposed measures had to go through the normal legislative process. The expectation is that by lining up powerful corporate interests, the governments will be able to ram this new "free trade" pact through legislatures on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

As with all these multilateral agreements, the intention is to spread its reach through time. That means that anything the original parties to the TPP accept is likely to be imposed later on other countries in the region, and quite likely, on the rest of the world.
At this point, it's not really possible to discuss the merits of the TPP since the governments are keeping the proposed text a secret from the public. Only the negotiators themselves and a select group of corporate partners have access to the actual document. The top executives at General Electric, Goldman Sachs, and Pfizer probably all have drafts of the relevant sections of the TPP. However, the members of the relevant congressional committees have not yet been told what is being negotiated....

revelarts
01-22-2017, 08:29 PM
Bump

revelarts
01-22-2017, 08:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K0k361pQoQ

revelarts
01-22-2017, 08:30 PM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/22/65/79/226579044e7176a4f33aedf707f5d4c4.jpg

revelarts
01-22-2017, 08:33 PM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/1c/12/a2/1c12a21bc2db4ea80af23ba556469c48.jpg

revelarts
01-22-2017, 08:37 PM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/bb/4e/03/bb4e03135cfe7eb2b6903ae73061baa6.jpg

pete311
01-22-2017, 08:41 PM
No response from the Trump humpers, because they got nothing

revelarts
01-22-2017, 08:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4-mlGRPmkU

BoogyMan
01-22-2017, 08:48 PM
No response from the Trump humpers, because they got nothing

I am not a big Trump fan but egads, child, read something before posting ignorant crap like this. Trump is by rhetoric against the TPP. (https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_the_Trans-Pacific_Partnership_trade_deal)

Black Diamond
01-22-2017, 08:51 PM
I am not a big Trump fan but egads, child, read something before posting ignorant crap like this. Trump is by rhetoric against the TPP. (https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_the_Trans-Pacific_Partnership_trade_deal)
No you're arguing with him. You're clearly a Trump humper.

revelarts
01-22-2017, 08:57 PM
No response from the Trump humpers, because they got nothing

Acutually Trump is Against The TTP... at least so far.

Hillary and Obama Are For It

FJ mentioned that Elizabeth Warren was/is against it Bernie was/is Against it as well.
Sen turned Cabinet member Jeff Sessoms has also been a VERY outspoken opponent of the TTP.
for the reasons outlined above... it's an ANTI sovereignty Agreement.... for starters and it's a give away to multinational corps on patent law and Big pharma interest

I'm not Anti "free Trade" but we can't pretend that we HAVE TO ACCEPT any and every bill that promises "FREE TRADE" in some form or fashion.
And bow to high pressure sale tactic "China's Going to get in there and own it ALL... you BETTER SIGN!"
BS. we don't have to sign or keep Jack.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7e/2e/49/7e2e49c33b9136d4209d948d2075d4a3.jpg

revelarts
01-22-2017, 09:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOLAWV0HTW0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOLAWV0HTW0



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIZyZung8G4

Gunny
01-23-2017, 12:31 AM
No you're arguing with him. You're clearly a Trump humper.

I'm actually laughing at the whole thread. Cut n paste with two participants. It looked like Rev was on a solo run for awhile.:laugh:

Black Diamond
01-23-2017, 12:40 AM
I'm actually laughing at the whole thread. Cut n paste with two participants. It looked like Rev was on a solo run for awhile.:laugh:
It is better to see rev in a better mood. :)

revelarts
01-23-2017, 01:02 AM
It is better to see rev in a better mood. :)


well with a Trump Victory I am trying to see the glass as 1/10th full instead of 9/10ths empty on some issues.

SaveSave

Black Diamond
01-23-2017, 01:08 AM
well with a Trump Victory I am trying to see the glass as 1/10th full instead of 9/10ths empty on some issues.

SaveSave

Fair enough. Lol

revelarts
01-23-2017, 02:16 AM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4f/4b/18/4f4b18e7cfcdea42c8b4f800665fe37e.jpg

Gunny
01-23-2017, 06:42 AM
It is better to see rev in a better mood. :)

I like Rev. He cops an attitude with me. He can't argue and just take it in stride. I guess people don't watch others patterns like I do. I'll screw with any and everyone. Especially those who misuse grammar. Rev needs to lighten up. I'll forget what he said in one thread by the time I click on the next.

I just find it hilarious when someone starts having a debate with himself. :laugh: If I post a thread that bombs I just let it go. I don't bump it.:laugh:

fj1200
01-23-2017, 10:00 AM
Bump

What enforcement mechanism do you recommend when a country violates its entrance into a free trade agreement with another country?

revelarts
01-23-2017, 10:04 AM
What enforcement mechanism do you recommend when a country violates its entrance into a free trade agreement with another country?

'violates it's entrance' I'm not sure what you mean.

fj1200
01-23-2017, 10:07 AM
'violates it's entrance' I'm not sure what you mean.

Sorry. Countries sign a trade agreement and then violate said agreement in some manner; what enforcement mechanism should there be?

revelarts
01-23-2017, 10:07 AM
Gunny, A lot of this thread is just FYI not so much a debate. Different ways of same the same thing so anyone can get something from this thread.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7P0RGZQxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7P0RGZQxQ)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7P0RGZQxQ

pete311
01-23-2017, 10:08 AM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4f/4b/18/4f4b18e7cfcdea42c8b4f800665fe37e.jpg


If it's an internet image, it must be true!

revelarts
01-23-2017, 10:35 AM
Sorry. Countries sign a trade agreement and then violate said agreement in some manner; what enforcement mechanism should there be?

1st of All it's shouldn't be a "court" run by corporate lawyers.

2nd it seems to me the there should be strict limits put on what constitutes a violation.
Better yet written so that if it's NOT explicitly set out in the agreement as a violation then it cannot be conscrewed as a violation.

then some limits on the "enforcement" should be set inside the agreement to PROTECT the local, State, and national economies. It's Clear that the ISDS courts are threatening countries with fines that threaten to bankrupt gov't's and nations if they don't get their way. There's NO agreement that should put a gov'ts whole economy at risk just for the wonderful privilege of "free trade". Isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of what the agreements are meant to do?

If there are disputes between Nation and Nation then the nation in violation might loses rights or provisions in the agreement. If there's a dispute between a nation/state/city gov't and a corporation then the corp is subject to the National laws and courts. period end of story.

Bottom line national/state/local law trumps Corporate profits.
the only thing that Nations should not be able to do is suddenly and without cause seize all the products and equipment of corporate or extra-national private entities. Unless they've actually killed or seriously harmed large groups of people and haven't followed local laws for addressing that.

Nations and states should have right of imminant domain over the land. But have to compensate Corps for any buildings or equipment.

that my POV ...for starters

Ok So FJ, Do you think the ISDS "courts" should not be interfered with and be expanded to cover the U.S.?
please don't dodge the question FJ? I gave you a Very strait forward reply.

fj1200
01-23-2017, 10:49 AM
1st of All it's shouldn't be a "court" run by corporate lawyers.

2nd it seems to me the there should be strict limits put on what constitutes a violation.
Better yet written so that if it's NOT explicitly set out in the agreement as a violation then it cannot be conscrewed as a violation.

then some limits on the "enforcement" should be set inside the agreement to PROTECT the local, State, and national economies. It's Clear that the ISDS courts are threatening countries with fines that threaten to bankrupt gov't's and nations if they don't get their way. There's NO agreement that should put a gov'ts whole economy at risk just for the wonderful privilege of "free trade". Isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of what the agreements are meant to do?

If there are disputes between Nation and Nation then the nation in violation might loses rights or provisions in the agreement. If there's a dispute between a nation/state/city gov't and a corporation then the corp is subject to the National laws and courts. period end of story.

Bottom line national/state/local law trumps Corporate profits.
the only thing that Nations should not be able to do is suddenly and without cause seize all the products and equipment of corporate or extra-national private entities. Unless they've actually killed or seriously harmed large groups of people and haven't followed local laws for addressing that.

Nations and states should have right of imminant domain over the land. But have to compensate Corps for any buildings or equipment.

that my POV ...for starters

Ok So FJ, Do you think the ISDS "courts" should not be interfered with and be expanded to cover the U.S.?
please don't dodge the question FJ? I gave you a Very strait forward reply.

I will grant you that it may not be perfect, shouldn't be run by lawyers, shouldn't bankrupt any countries etc. These types of things need to be in the agreement when it is written for all countries involved. You keep stating that it's for the corporations, etc. but I'm not sure there is enough information out there that you can make that determination. But maybe it should be nation based, I won't disagree but at any point a country that may be harmed should have the ability to drop out if they are no longer wanting to abide by the agreement or think they are being unfairly harmed.

Yes. I think we should be covered by an enforcement mechanism if we sign a free trade agreement just as we are covered by WTO.

revelarts
01-23-2017, 11:02 AM
If it's an internet image, it must be true!

Well Ok seems to me you don't just assume it's wrong because it's on the internet.
get some facts that show that it is wrong in part or in whole.

Heck YOUR on the internet Pete... so you must be wrong. :poke:

revelarts
01-23-2017, 11:04 AM
I will grant you that it may not be perfect, shouldn't be run by lawyers, shouldn't bankrupt any countries etc. These types of things need to be in the agreement when it is written for all countries involved. You keep stating that it's for the corporations, etc. but I'm not sure there is enough information out there that you can make that determination. But maybe it should be nation based, I won't disagree but at any point a country that may be harmed should have the ability to drop out if they are no longer wanting to abide by the agreement or think they are being unfairly harmed.

Yes. I think we should be covered by an enforcement mechanism if we sign a free trade agreement just as we are covered by WTO.
We know enough there's like 5000 plus pages of it out.
Sessom put the stack of papers that make it up behind him in one photo op.

Gunny
01-23-2017, 11:31 AM
Gunny, A lot of this thread is just FYI not so much a debate. Different ways of same the same thing so anyone can get something from this thread.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7P0RGZQxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7P0RGZQxQ)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7P0RGZQxQ

FYI from YOUR or someone else's POV. If I want to read, we got a B Daltons down the road. Look at the name of the board: DEBATE Policy. I come on here to interact, not read nor be preached at. Pasting an OpEd is not interacting. It's taking someone else's POV and using it rather than using your own words, It's mindless.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
01-23-2017, 11:46 AM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/22/65/79/226579044e7176a4f33aedf707f5d4c4.jpg

You misspelled- globalists--, amigo..
It does not start with Cor nor end with an -- Ions...
COMPANIES/CORPORATIONS ARE NOT HUMAN BUT THE PUPPET MASTERS ARE = GLOBALISTS..--Tyr

revelarts
01-23-2017, 12:13 PM
FYI from YOUR or someone else's POV. If I want to read, we got a B Daltons down the road. Look at the name of the board: DEBATE Policy. I come on here to interact, not read nor be preached at. Pasting an OpEd is not interacting. It's taking someone else's POV and using it rather than using your own words, It's mindless.

so yeah, i guess i shouldn't take you seriously here. because you're just poking fun.
you don't mean that you can't... i mean... don't read.

CSM
01-23-2017, 12:28 PM
well, Trump signed the Executive Order today to withdraw the US from the TPP....something he promised to do....Is NAFTA next?

revelarts
01-23-2017, 12:40 PM
You misspelled- globalists--, amigo..
It does not start with Cor nor end with an -- Ions...
COMPANIES/CORPORATIONS ARE NOT HUMAN BUT THE PUPPET MASTERS ARE = GLOBALISTS..--Tyr

sometimes they are the same thing

NightTrain
01-23-2017, 12:50 PM
Making good on a campaign promise, President Trump on Monday signed an executive order withdrawing the United States from the controversial Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal.

Just like he said he would.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/23/trump-signs-executive-order-withdrawing-us-from-tpp-trade-deal.html

Black Diamond
01-23-2017, 12:55 PM
well, Trump signed the Executive Order today to withdraw the US from the TPP....something he promised to do....Is NAFTA next?
I think he will renegotiate nafta.

Gunny
01-23-2017, 01:07 PM
so yeah, i guess i shouldn't take you seriously here. because you're just poking fun.
you don't mean that you can't... i mean... don't read.


Got news for you, bubba, I CAN'T read anymore. Why do you think my typing is so bad now? I am one of the most articulate people you know. Sh*t happens.

And I ain't reading a wall of words that's just a cut n paste. My dog can cut n paste. TRUE journalism 101 .. Any point you are trying to make is lost in your verbosity. People see a wall of words of fine print and say f*ck this.

BoogyMan
01-23-2017, 01:28 PM
If it's an internet image, it must be true!

Is that where you got the idea that Trump was going to do nothing about TPP?

revelarts
01-23-2017, 01:28 PM
Got news for you, bubba, I CAN'T read anymore. Why do you think my typing is so bad now? I am one of the most articulate people you know. Sh*t happens.

And I ain't reading a wall of words that's just a cut n paste. My dog can cut n paste. TRUE journalism 101 .. Any point you are trying to make is lost in your verbosity. People see a wall of words of fine print and say f*ck this.

That's why i post Pictures with One liners as well.

And I've never been sure why you assume everyone is just like you and NEVER read a long post.
I've read others long post and links to long articles from time to time. I know 1 or 2 others have read some long post as well.

If you want to skip them Fine, but please stop trying to tell me how to post.
Got news for you, It ain't gonna happen bubba

revelarts
01-23-2017, 01:44 PM
FYI from YOUR or someone else's POV. If I want to read, we got a B Daltons down the road. ....

whens the last time you been there Gunny?:poke:

fj1200
01-23-2017, 01:50 PM
We know enough there's like 5000 plus pages of it out.
Sessom put the stack of papers that make it up behind him in one photo op.

I wouldn't expect an agreement of such a nature to be of very few pages. I imagine there have been a few revisions as well.

Gunny
01-23-2017, 02:01 PM
That's why i post Pictures with One liners as well.

And I've never been sure why you assume everyone is just like you and NEVER read a long post.
I've read others long post and links to long articles from time to time. I know 1 or 2 others have read some long post as well.

If you want to skip them Fine, but please stop trying to tell me how to post.
Got news for you, It ain't gonna happen bubba

Newsflash: I assume nothing. I analyze what is there. And no one on this board is like me. I figured THAT out a decade ago.

Neither is an excuse for poor journalism. I had a scholarship to the University of Miami in journalsim and couldn't stand the BS of the MSM so joined the Corps instead. Speak your own words. Oh, and I don't look at pics nor follow links.

The last time I was at B Dalton I could see out of my right eye and could focus for more thn 20 seconds.

fj1200
01-23-2017, 02:37 PM
Just look at all those countries that we're afraid of.



<tbody>
Original
signatories


12
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/23px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Brunei.svg/23px-Flag_of_Brunei.svg.png Brunei (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunei)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cf/Flag_of_Canada.svg/23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png Canada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Flag_of_Chile.svg/23px-Flag_of_Chile.svg.png Chile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9e/Flag_of_Japan.svg/23px-Flag_of_Japan.svg.png Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Flag_of_Malaysia.svg/23px-Flag_of_Malaysia.svg.png Malaysia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Flag_of_Mexico.svg/23px-Flag_of_Mexico.svg.png Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg/23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png New Zealand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Flag_of_Peru.svg/23px-Flag_of_Peru.svg.png Peru (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peru)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Flag_of_Singapore.svg/23px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png Singapore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) (withdrawn)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership#cite_note-5)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Flag_of_Vietnam.svg/23px-Flag_of_Vietnam.svg.png Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam)



</tbody>

:(

revelarts
01-23-2017, 03:02 PM
Just look at all those countries that we're afraid of.


:(

I'm not worried about them i'm more concerned about AT&T, General Electric, Apple, Dow Chemical, Nike, Walmart and the American Petroleum Institute and the others Corps that basically Wrote the TPP.

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Kathianne
01-23-2017, 04:21 PM
That's why i post Pictures with One liners as well.

And I've never been sure why you assume everyone is just like you and NEVER read a long post.
I've read others long post and links to long articles from time to time. I know 1 or 2 others have read some long post as well.

If you want to skip them Fine, but please stop trying to tell me how to post.
Got news for you, It ain't gonna happen bubba

Yeah, I'm not picking on Gunny, but I do read long posts-sometimes. I really am not keen on multiple sources within one post, but it's my preference-not telling anyone else to do so.

We're all different in what we enjoy and why we choose to come on here.

I like opinion, I like it better when someone provides a link that illustrates what their point is. Again, it's a preference.

Gunny
01-23-2017, 05:05 PM
Yeah, I'm not picking on Gunny, but I do read long posts-sometimes. I really am not keen on multiple sources within one post, but it's my preference-not telling anyone else to do so.

We're all different in what we enjoy and why we choose to come on here.

I like opinion, I like it better when someone provides a link that illustrates what their point is. Again, it's a preference.

Can pick on me all you want. If you have to uses someone else's words AS YOUR OPINION rather than to just support it, you aren't thinking for yourself.

Kathianne
01-23-2017, 05:13 PM
Can pick on me all you want. If you have to uses someone else's words AS YOUR OPINION rather than to just support it, you aren't thinking for yourself.

I disagree. I often post things from one place or another, rarely without my own take on such. Basically if I'm reading something that I find enjoyable or even disagree with, I figure others might too. Sometimes they do, sometimes not. Doesn't matter to me.

What I don't enjoy, but don't have a problem with others that do, are posts that are basically rants. The only point being they are 'facts' and those that disagree are just naive fools.

So far I've not been persuaded. ;)

Gunny
01-23-2017, 05:30 PM
I disagree. I often post things from one place or another, rarely without my own take on such. Basically if I'm reading something that I find enjoyable or even disagree with, I figure others might too. Sometimes they do, sometimes not. Doesn't matter to me.

What I don't enjoy, but don't have a problem with others that do, are posts that are basically rants. The only point being they are 'facts' and those that disagree are just naive fools.

So far I've not been persuaded. ;)

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Curt n paste is mindless droning. I can understand doing it to be informative. From a literary POV, posting novels loses the reader. 9th grade level journalism. I don't come on here to have a discussion with some idiot MSM's POV which is designed to lead people to a conclusion they want you to come to.

Make your point then support it with a paragraph or 2 or 3. THAT is actual journalism. I read none of this crap. They totally suck at English. Had to be in honors to get into journalism when I was in school. The MSM has nothing to say worth hearing. Goebbels would be proud of their spin machine.

And like I said, if I want to read, bookstore around the corner.

Kathianne
01-23-2017, 05:44 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree then. Curt n paste is mindless droning. I can understand doing it to be informative. From a literary POV, posting novels loses the reader. 9th grade level journalism. I don't come on here to have a discussion with some idiot MSM's POV which is designed to lead people to a conclusion they want you to come to.

Make your point then support it with a paragraph or 2 or 3. THAT is actual journalism. I read none of this crap. They totally suck at English. Had to be in honors to get into journalism when I was in school. The MSM has nothing to say worth hearing. Goebbels would be proud of their spin machine.

And like I said, if I want to read, bookstore around the corner.

I've never seen journalism on this site from a poster, never.

I've seen discussions, but never journalism.

fj1200
01-24-2017, 10:47 AM
I'm not worried about them i'm more concerned about AT&T, General Electric, Apple, Dow Chemical, Nike, Walmart and the American Petroleum Institute and the others Corps that basically Wrote the TPP.

SaveSave


I'm not worried about any of them. Free trade is good.