Proof Muhammad was a liar

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad_the_Liar

Multiple examples from hadiths, showing Muhammad admitted lying was ok when it suited him.


By Allah, and Allah willing, if I take an oath and later find something else better than that. then I do what is better and expiate my oath.'


"Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."

[jimnyc]

I don't need to know if he was a liar or not. Once I found out he was fond of getting it on with children, I knew right there and then that he was not my cup of tea and certainly not to be revered or held up on a pedestal.

[gabosaurus]

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/249429_o.gif

[Drummond]

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/249429_o.gif

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????

[jimnyc]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????

Don't bother, that's all I'll say. You'll thank me someday.

[Drummond]

Don't bother, that's all I'll say. You'll thank me someday.

Hah ! I just did, Jim ...

[Drummond]

Lying, from what I've seen, is rife in Islam ... for a creed that cares about 'honour' (supposedly), they're prepared to do a lot of it when it suits them.

I've just found this link. Partially quoted ... the entire piece is highly instructive, for those not already aware of such truths ..

http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islamic-Principle-Lying-for-Allah.htm


Lying and cheating in the Arab world is not really a moral matter but a method of safeguarding honor and status, avoiding shame, and at all times exploiting possibilities, for those with the wits for it, deftly and expeditiously to convert shame into honor on their own account and vice versa for their opponents. If honor so demands, lies and cheating may become absolute imperatives.” [David Pryce-Jones, “The Closed Circle” An interpretation of the Arabs, p4]“No dishonor attaches to such primary transactions as selling short weight, deceiving anyone about quality, quantity or kind of goods, cheating at gambling, and bearing false witness. The doer of these things is merely quicker off the mark than the next fellow; owing him nothing, he is not to be blamed for taking what he can.” [David Pryce-Jones, “The Closed Circle”, p38]The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.” It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a “religion of peace”. A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart. Like many Islamic practices, taqiyya was formed within the context of the culture of Arab tribalism, expansionary warfare, Bedouin raiding and inter-tribal conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse, confound and divide 'the enemy’.A favoured tactic was ‘deceptive triangulation’; used to persuade the enemy that preparations for a raid were not aimed at them but at another tribe altogether. The fate in store for the deceived enemy target was an unexpected plunderous raid, enslavement of the women and death to the post-pubescent males.The core foundation of hyper-masculine Arab culture is bound up in perceptions of "honour and shame" ...


The Islamic 'defence' script -

Islamic spokesmen repeat the same predictable duplicitous clichés concerning Islam in Europe, as do their counterparts in Australia and America. They appear to follow a well prepared script as they repeat "Islam is tolerant and peace loving”. In instances where they find themselves presented with, and cornered by, undeniable evidence that murderous radicals are indeed guilty as charged the spokesman will then fall back on the old chestnut that the culprits are only a “small minority” and not “true Muslims” anyway. Islamic spokeswomen use taqiyya when making the somewhat Orwellian claim that wearing the hijab, niqab, burqa etc. is “liberating” and “empowering”, and that, for reasons known only to them, these symbols of submissive exclusion offer them more freedom than Western women, thereby implying that women in Muslim countries are somehow 'freer' than women in the West. This ruse is designed to preclude further examination into the well documented inferior status of females in Islamic societies. Being put on the spot, and having to admit their true obedient and subservient status, would be embarrassing and therefore shame inducing so resorting to denial and exaggerative taqiyya is their only option.There’s a common and oft repeated lie that “Islam” means peace”, it doesn’t, it translates as “submission” (to Allah).Islamic falsehoods are echoed uncritically by Western politicians and other apologist dupes, for example "A small group of fundamentalists have hijacked a great and noble religion”. This timely, skilful, misleading and diversionary theme of the 'hijacking' of Islam was introduced into public, political and media discourse by an Islamic 'spokesman' in the United States shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks and has become an “accepted fact” repeated, ad nauseum, ever since.The "Islam has been hijacked” myth is now a clichéd media and political reference which serves to deflect attention from the empirical proof of a fourteen hundred year continuity of the doctrinal, political and religious nature of Islamic jihad.A related theme that “a small minority of Muslims are engaged in terrorism” is utterly irrelevant as terrorism is always perpetrated by 'small minorities' or more accurately small groups or cells. Surveys consistently reveal that between 10-15% of all Muslims sympathise with the aims and methodology of this radical strain of Islam which has been “hijacked”. This means, that within an estimated world population of 1.2 billion Muslims, there are 120-180 million people prepared to fund, facilitate and in general, give moral and financial assistance to the jihadists….. “a small minority”?....you decide!The indisputable truth is that there has been no “hijacking” of Islam. Islamic extremists can, and do, find ample inspiration, justification and encouragement for their violent ideology in the Quran and Hadith.

[aboutime]

At least now we know where, and how Gabby and jafar learned to Lie so well.

Just watch the reactions to come.

[Great warrior]

There are many hard evidences that Mohammad PBUH can't be a liar:


1- He spent more than 40 years among his people & had never lied not even once, they called him "the truthful, the honest"
The disbelievers refused Islam because they preferred to follow their ancient fathers in worshipping statues than worshipping One God.
Abu Jahl, a polytheist pagan leader, told the Prophet that they didn't deny him, but they denied what he came to them with.



2- Revelation happened to him suddenly, before the divine revelation, he had never talked about creeds, legislations, laws, or mentioned anything about Paradise, the Hell, the Hereafter, the resurrection, the Angels, Satan, etc…
"52 And thus We have revealed to you an inspiration of Our command. You did not know what is the Book or [what is] faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path -" Surat As-Shura


3- If he had been a liar, he wouldn't have been able to continue inviting people to Islam in Mecca more than 10 years, challenging the strong disbelievers while he was poor & weak, his supporters were few followers of the poor, the slaves, & the blinds who had been tortured & persecuted by the Chiefs of the disbelievers.


Chiefs of disbelievers tried to seduce him with money, women, & authority, but he refused, he said, 'O my uncle! By God if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left on condition that I abandon this course, until God has made me victorious, or I perish therein, I would not abandon it'.


They also threatened him & tried to assassinate him.


They boycotted Muslims 3 years until Muslims ate the leaves of trees & bones.


If Mohammad PBUH was a liar, it would be impossible for him to go on.


4- God doesn't support liars, but abandons them & exposes their lies.
" 6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous:but the way of the ungodly shall perish. " Psalm 1
" 17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the Lord upholdeth the righteous. " Psalm 37


& in The Holy Quran God says, "24 Or do they say, "He has invented about Allah a lie"? But if Allah willed, He could seal over your heart. And Allah eliminates falsehood and establishes the truth by His words. Indeed, He is Knowing of that within the breasts. " Surat As-Shura
Also God says, "44 And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings,
45 We would have seized him by the right hand;
46 Then We would have cut from him the aorta" Surat Al-Haqqah


But God supported Mohammad PBUH, look at his biography, God gave him a manifest victory, & a strong help.


For example, when Arabs, Jews, and hypocrites were allies against him in the battle of Al-Ahzab, God sent against them a wind which defeated them.


When Denmark published the abusive caricatures, their economy fell down, and thousands of Danish converted to Islam.


When France forbade Muslim women from wearing Hijab, thousands of French embraced Islam.


America spent billions & cooperated with its allies to destroy Islam & Muslims, using all its might & army, also branded them as terrorists using media, but it failed.


Read the history and see what happened to all Prophet's enemies, they all perished.


Whereas, Mohammad's followers are increasing day by day


And his name is still praised, more than 1400 years it is connected to God name in Adhan, in every land worldwide, the Pronouncers of Adhan announce from minarets 5 times a day, "I testify that there is no god but Allah ; I testify that Muhammad Is the Messenger of Allah"


If Mohammad is a liar, God will not allow this to happen.


God also supports him by science & facts, science agrees with every single data in The Holy Quran, & so do old historic events, ancient texts, future expectations, doctors, psychologists, astronomers, geographers, meteorologists, chemists, nutritionists, economists, etc…


5- Jesus gave us a standard to distinguish between true prophets & false prophets, "16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. " Matthew 7


What fruit does Islam give?


Islam didn't lead to "dark ages", or to two world wars, nor did it destroy countries as Britain destroyed India or enslave others as France enslaved Africa, or persecute them as Spain did in "The Inquisition", No.


but it brought people out from darkness into light and from slavery into freedom and from acting as animals into acting as human beings.


Before Islam Arabs were very weak & ignorant, they worshipped stones, and followed what their fathers did, blindly, strong people persecuted weak people & men persecuted women. When Islam came it delivered people from weakness, ignorance, and slavery.


The first verse in The Holy Quran was "Read! In the Name of your Lord"


Then Islam gave humanity everything it needs to get its full human rights, complete humanity, & real happiness.


Islam guided us to the shortest path to happiness which is the straight path.


After that Muslims conquered countries east & west to deliver people from worshipping each other to worship God


Moreover, Islamic civilization contributed too much to science, literature, art, architecture and other fields.


In conclusion, if you pretend to be a doctor, how long will it take to be disclosed?!
Lie can't last forever; in the end truth will prevail.


When Ibrahim (child of Mohammad) died, sun eclipsed, so people said, "The sun eclipsed on account of the death of Ibrahim"
But what did the Prophet PBUH answer them?!


Ziyad b. 'Ilaqa reported: I heard Mughira b. Shu'ba saying that the sun eclipsed during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the day when Ibrahim died. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Verily the sun and the moon are the two signs among the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse on account of the death of anyone or on account of the birth of anyone. So when you see them, supplicate Allah, and observe prayer till it is over.
Book of Muslim


Is that an answer from a liar or a Prophet?
He was able to make use of this event, wasn't he?


But he didn't have to, because he is a Messenger of God, God gave him a testimony "166 But Allah bears witness to that which He has revealed to you. He has sent it down with His knowledge, and the angels bear witness [as well]. And sufficient is Allah as Witness." Al-Nisa'
& gave him the Holy Quran which is a manifest miracle.


God sent him as a "mercy" for us, if we believe we will benefit ourselves, but if we disbelieve, that will not hurt the Prophet "184 Then if they deny you, [O Muhammad] - so were messengers denied before you, who brought clear proofs and written ordinances and the enlightening Scripture." Al Imran.

[jimnyc]

Chiefs of disbelievers tried to seduce him with money, women, & authority, but he refused,



Of course he did, he had a child already!

[abso]

:clap:

[jimnyc]

:clap:

Most wouldn't applaud pedophilia, but to each their own. Then again, Muhammad did admit it, so I give him "credit" for owning up to being with a child.

[abso]

There are many hard evidences that Mohammad PBUH can't be a liar:


1- He spent more than 40 years among his people & had never lied not even once, they called him "the truthful, the honest"
The disbelievers refused Islam because they preferred to follow their ancient fathers in worshipping statues than worshipping One God.
Abu Jahl, a polytheist pagan leader, told the Prophet that they didn't deny him, but they denied what he came to them with.



2- Revelation happened to him suddenly, before the divine revelation, he had never talked about creeds, legislations, laws, or mentioned anything about Paradise, the Hell, the Hereafter, the resurrection, the Angels, Satan, etc…
"52 And thus We have revealed to you an inspiration of Our command. You did not know what is the Book or [what is] faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path -" Surat As-Shura


3- If he had been a liar, he wouldn't have been able to continue inviting people to Islam in Mecca more than 10 years, challenging the strong disbelievers while he was poor & weak, his supporters were few followers of the poor, the slaves, & the blinds who had been tortured & persecuted by the Chiefs of the disbelievers.


Chiefs of disbelievers tried to seduce him with money, women, & authority, but he refused, he said, 'O my uncle! By God if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left on condition that I abandon this course, until God has made me victorious, or I perish therein, I would not abandon it'.


They also threatened him & tried to assassinate him.


They boycotted Muslims 3 years until Muslims ate the leaves of trees & bones.


If Mohammad PBUH was a liar, it would be impossible for him to go on.


4- God doesn't support liars, but abandons them & exposes their lies.
" 6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous:but the way of the ungodly shall perish. " Psalm 1
" 17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the Lord upholdeth the righteous. " Psalm 37


& in The Holy Quran God says, "24 Or do they say, "He has invented about Allah a lie"? But if Allah willed, He could seal over your heart. And Allah eliminates falsehood and establishes the truth by His words. Indeed, He is Knowing of that within the breasts. " Surat As-Shura
Also God says, "44 And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings,
45 We would have seized him by the right hand;
46 Then We would have cut from him the aorta" Surat Al-Haqqah


But God supported Mohammad PBUH, look at his biography, God gave him a manifest victory, & a strong help.


For example, when Arabs, Jews, and hypocrites were allies against him in the battle of Al-Ahzab, God sent against them a wind which defeated them.


When Denmark published the abusive caricatures, their economy fell down, and thousands of Danish converted to Islam.


When France forbade Muslim women from wearing Hijab, thousands of French embraced Islam.


America spent billions & cooperated with its allies to destroy Islam & Muslims, using all its might & army, also branded them as terrorists using media, but it failed.


Read the history and see what happened to all Prophet's enemies, they all perished.


Whereas, Mohammad's followers are increasing day by day


And his name is still praised, more than 1400 years it is connected to God name in Adhan, in every land worldwide, the Pronouncers of Adhan announce from minarets 5 times a day, "I testify that there is no god but Allah ; I testify that Muhammad Is the Messenger of Allah"


If Mohammad is a liar, God will not allow this to happen.


God also supports him by science & facts, science agrees with every single data in The Holy Quran, & so do old historic events, ancient texts, future expectations, doctors, psychologists, astronomers, geographers, meteorologists, chemists, nutritionists, economists, etc…


5- Jesus gave us a standard to distinguish between true prophets & false prophets, "16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. " Matthew 7


What fruit does Islam give?


Islam didn't lead to "dark ages", or to two world wars, nor did it destroy countries as Britain destroyed India or enslave others as France enslaved Africa, or persecute them as Spain did in "The Inquisition", No.


but it brought people out from darkness into light and from slavery into freedom and from acting as animals into acting as human beings.


Before Islam Arabs were very weak & ignorant, they worshipped stones, and followed what their fathers did, blindly, strong people persecuted weak people & men persecuted women. When Islam came it delivered people from weakness, ignorance, and slavery.


The first verse in The Holy Quran was "Read! In the Name of your Lord"


Then Islam gave humanity everything it needs to get its full human rights, complete humanity, & real happiness.


Islam guided us to the shortest path to happiness which is the straight path.


After that Muslims conquered countries east & west to deliver people from worshipping each other to worship God


Moreover, Islamic civilization contributed too much to science, literature, art, architecture and other fields.


In conclusion, if you pretend to be a doctor, how long will it take to be disclosed?!
Lie can't last forever; in the end truth will prevail.


When Ibrahim (child of Mohammad) died, sun eclipsed, so people said, "The sun eclipsed on account of the death of Ibrahim"
But what did the Prophet PBUH answer them?!


Ziyad b. 'Ilaqa reported: I heard Mughira b. Shu'ba saying that the sun eclipsed during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the day when Ibrahim died. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Verily the sun and the moon are the two signs among the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse on account of the death of anyone or on account of the birth of anyone. So when you see them, supplicate Allah, and observe prayer till it is over.
Book of Muslim


Is that an answer from a liar or a Prophet?
He was able to make use of this event, wasn't he?


But he didn't have to, because he is a Messenger of God, God gave him a testimony "166 But Allah bears witness to that which He has revealed to you. He has sent it down with His knowledge, and the angels bear witness [as well]. And sufficient is Allah as Witness." Al-Nisa'
& gave him the Holy Quran which is a manifest miracle.


God sent him as a "mercy" for us, if we believe we will benefit ourselves, but if we disbelieve, that will not hurt the Prophet "184 Then if they deny you, [O Muhammad] - so were messengers denied before you, who brought clear proofs and written ordinances and the enlightening Scripture." Al Imran.



In this forum no one will ever be interested in reading anything good about Islam, if they want to know about Islam they can go to the nearest Islamic center and learn all about the true Islam, not the demonized version of Islam that they all wish to see, so just stop what you are doing, it's a waste of your time, there is no room for discussion around here, no one is able to think and debate, they only see Islam and Muslims as the sole reason of the world problems and evil, in this forum you should only read what they say about us while you are drinking a cup of coffee and laugh as loud as you can. :D

[abso]

Most wouldn't applaud pedophilia, but to each their own. Then again, Muhammad did admit it, so I give him "credit" for owning up to being with a child.

:clap:

[jimnyc]

In this forum no one will ever be interested in reading anything good about Islam, if they want to know about Islam they can go to the nearest Islamic center and learn all about the true Islam, not the demonized version of Islam that they all wish to see, so just stop what you are doing, it's a waste of your time, there is no room for discussion around here, no one is able to think and debate, they only see Islam and Muslims as the sole reason of the world problems and evil, in this forum you should only read what they say about us while you are drinking a cup of coffee and laugh as loud as you can. :D

Sure, and that's why you return all the time. That's why you stated you supported terror attacks on US troops. You're a radical and a propagandist, and now you'll try your same crap on a fellow Egyptian. Egypt, the place where 80+ percent of all women claim to have been abused, and 50+ percent of men admit to it. Sorry if I don't listen to "men" from such a place.

[jimnyc]

:clap:

Do you still beat the women in your life, abso?

[jimnyc]

What kind of reprehensible and sick individual takes up a 6yr old and has sex with her when she is just 9 years old?

[abso]

Sure, and that's why you return all the time. That's why you stated you supported terror attacks on US troops. You're a radical and a propagandist, and now you'll try your same crap on a fellow Egyptian. Egypt, the place where 80+ percent of all women claim to have been abused, and 50+ percent of men admit to it. Sorry if I don't listen to "men" from such a place.

1- I support any country in fighting an occupation, and attacks on US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan are not terror attacks, they are legal attacks in a fight for freedom, and yes i do support them.

2- you can call me radical and propagandist but you have known me for enough time to know that you are just fooling yourself by saying that.

3- you are acting like a 3 years old boy who can't stop holding his toy even in his sleep, you just keep repeating those statistics cause you like them too much.

4- you know very well that i would never beat a woman.

5- Please Grow UP.

[jimnyc]

You live in an area with the worst abuse of women in the world, and NEVER denounce it. You OUTRIGHT stated that you supported TERROR ATTACKS on US troops, so don't backpeddle now. If you are less than a "man" and can't stand behind what you write yourself, then don't write it.

[aboutime]

1- I support any country in fighting an occupation, and attacks on US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan are not terror attacks, they are legal attacks in a fight for freedom, and yes i do support them.

2- you can call me radical and propagandist but you have known me for enough time to know that you are just fooling yourself by saying that.

3- you are acting like a 3 years old boy who can't stop holding his toy even in his sleep, you just keep repeating those statistics cause you like them too much.

4- you know very well that i would never beat a woman.

5- Please Grow UP.


abso. You and jafar come from the same cloth. Both filled with hatred, ignorance, stupidity, and hypocrites.

Would you like to tell us some of your Honorable attributes?

So far. You are proving to have None.

[jimnyc]

In this forum no one will ever be interested in reading anything good about Islam, if they want to know about Islam they can go to the nearest Islamic center and learn all about the true Islam, not the demonized version of Islam that they all wish to see, so just stop what you are doing, it's a waste of your time, there is no room for discussion around here, no one is able to think and debate, they only see Islam and Muslims as the sole reason of the world problems and evil, in this forum you should only read what they say about us while you are drinking a cup of coffee and laugh as loud as you can. :D


5- Please Grow UP.

If I buy the Islamic book that teaches the proper way to beat a woman, and believe in a prophet who was a pedophile, would you hold me in higher regard then?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002539765/a_gift_for_the_muslim_couple_book_islamic_sharia_l aw_197x300_xlarge.jpeg

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/23/book-tells-muslim-men-how-to-beat-and-control-their-wives

[aboutime]

If I buy the Islamic book that teaches the proper way to beat a woman, and believe in a prophet who was a pedophile, would you hold me in higher regard then?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002539765/a_gift_for_the_muslim_couple_book_islamic_sharia_l aw_197x300_xlarge.jpeg

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/23/book-tells-muslim-men-how-to-beat-and-control-their-wives


Careful jimnyc. Suggesting, or referring to Honest, Truthful facts will just make abso, and jafar dig deeper into their cesspool of lies where facts are distorted through brainwashing.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

1- I support any country in fighting an occupation, and attacks on US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan are not terror attacks, they are legal attacks in a fight for freedom, and yes i do support them.

2- you can call me radical and propagandist but you have known me for enough time to know that you are just fooling yourself by saying that.

3- you are acting like a 3 years old boy who can't stop holding his toy even in his sleep, you just keep repeating those statistics cause you like them too much.

4- you know very well that i would never beat a woman.

5- Please Grow UP.

That pure bull, they are terrorist attacks that are carried out to support a religion== Islam. I do not know if you would beat a woman but your religion supports , condones and teaches to do exactly that. If you are a true muslim you must support that because according to your holy book and Muhammad IT IS TAUGHT AS THE CORRECT THING TO DO.. --Tyr

[aboutime]

That pure bull, they are terrorist attacks that are carried out to support a religion== Islam. I do not know if you would beat a woman but your religion supports , condones and teaches to do exactly that. If you are a true muslim you must support that because according to your holy book and Muhammad IT IS TAUGHT AS THE CORRECT THING TO DO.. --Tyr


See what I mean Tyr. Even when you provide honest, documented facts. jafar and abso MUST DENY everything because it exposes them as the Liars we all know them to be. Every time they come here with more excuses...I call lies.

[jimnyc]

abso's EXACT words:

no i dont support the terrorists in killing americans, i only support them if they attack american troops, not civilians

[logroller]

You live in an area with the worst abuse of women in the world, and NEVER denounce it. You OUTRIGHT stated that you supported TERROR ATTACKS on US troops, so don't backpeddle now. If you are less than a "man" and can't stand behind what you write yourself, then don't write it.
an attack on uniformed militia doesn't qualify as terrorism. A terror attack is an attack on noncombatants.

[jimnyc]

an attack on uniformed militia doesn't qualify as terrorism. A terror attack is an attack on noncombatants.

So if a member of Al Qaeda straps on a suicide vest, runs into an area where there is 10 American troops, pulls the cord and kills everyone, that's not a terrorist attack?

[aboutime]

So if a member of Al Qaeda straps on a suicide vest, runs into an area where there is 10 American troops, pulls the cord and kills everyone, that's not a terrorist attack?



jimnyc. Remember. The Obama administration, and Holder insist the attacks at Fort Hood were Workplace attacks, and not related to Terrorists. Even though the Shooter, in Uniform yelled "ALLAH ACKBAR".

Obama is just like jafar. Both defend Terror, in all of it's forms in order to prevent Offending, or Insulting FRIENDS.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So if a member of Al Qaeda straps on a suicide vest, runs into an area where there is 10 American troops, pulls the cord and kills everyone, that's not a terrorist attack?

Careful Jim or you will get 'ole Log to reveal who he truly supports! He can only be so clever and then the truth will come out about him defending the muslims. That is what so many of his posts and attacks against me have been about. He hates my posting so much TRUTH about Islam. -Tyr

[jimnyc]

I look at it this way, when a member of a terrorist group, not wearing a uniform or an official insignia (as per Geneva), and making attacks against pretty much anyone qualifies as a terrorist attack to me. If the prior post by Log is true, then I guess Al Qaeda and the Taliban and other known terror groups are committing regular actions as a military against our troops. Personally, I see if differently. These terrorists, and whoever they kill to make a statement, or political statement, and are members of a known terror group and no recognized military, are committing terror attacks.

Additionally, I guess that means that the attacks on the USS Cole in the 90's and the bomb in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 soldiers in 1996, which by our government are listed as terror attacks, weren't in fact terror attacks.

[aboutime]

I look at it this way, when a member of a terrorist group, not wearing a uniform or an official insignia (as per Geneva), and making attacks against pretty much anyone qualifies as a terrorist attack to me. If the prior post by Log is true, then I guess Al Qaeda and the Taliban and other known terror groups are committing regular actions as a military against our troops. Personally, I see if differently. These terrorists, and whoever they kill to make a statement, or political statement, and are members of a known terror group and no recognized military, are committing terror attacks.

Additionally, I guess that means that the attacks on the USS Cole in the 90's and the bomb in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 soldiers in 1996, which by our government are listed as terror attacks, weren't in fact terror attacks.


jimnyc: Many will still deny it today, more than 12 years after the Cole attack that killed 17 sailors. But...everyone In the Navy, and those of us who served In the Navy knew.....ANY ATTACK on a U.S Navy ship is....AN ACT OF WAR!

All Navy ships now have their own ZIP Code, and they are considered the Territory of the USA.

If any nation attacks a U.S. Base, or Ship like the Cole. It was, and should have been declared an Act of War by Clinton.

4071
The U.S.S. Cole

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I look at it this way, when a member of a terrorist group, not wearing a uniform or an official insignia (as per Geneva), and making attacks against pretty much anyone qualifies as a terrorist attack to me. If the prior post by Log is true, then I guess Al Qaeda and the Taliban and other known terror groups are committing regular actions as a military against our troops. Personally, I see if differently. These terrorists, and whoever they kill to make a statement, or political statement, and are members of a known terror group and no recognized military, are committing terror attacks.

Additionally, I guess that means that the attacks on the USS Cole in the 90's and the bomb in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 soldiers in 1996, which by our government are listed as terror attacks, weren't in fact terror attacks.

Jim, you are correct, Log is wrong. He apparently thinks that terrorists are "freedom fighters" by pretending that they are merely fighting for territory or the nation. We all know that they fight for Jihad, for religion , for Islam! And that they murder innocent women and children for Allah! Along with the fact that they were no uniform but log STILL considers them soldiers(AKA FREEDOM FIGHTERS)! Such is the mentality of a cowardly lying muslim appeasor IMHO! Apparently that is why he also called those terrorist training camps in our nation , militia's, with his view that they are "freedom fighters"! I believe that more than just the deceit and fraud of abso and jafar has been exsposed here this week. Log ALSO is certainly NOT what he has been pretending to be IMHO.
"freedom fighters" my ass, log can shove it !-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

jimnyc: Many will still deny it today, more than 12 years after the Cole attack that killed 17 sailors. But...everyone In the Navy, and those of us who served In the Navy knew.....ANY ATTACK on a U.S Navy ship is....AN ACT OF WAR!

All Navy ships now have their own ZIP Code, and they are considered the Territory of the USA.

If any nation attacks a U.S. Base, or Ship like the Cole. It was, and should have been declared an Act of War by Clinton.

4071
The U.S.S. Cole

Aboutime, the fraud Log says those were "freedom fighters"> Same as the scum that attacked our troops in Iraq and A-stan! You see according to logpeasor if you attack U.S. military you are not terrorist, doesnt matter if you do not wear uniforms or that you do so as a religious Jihad. See , Log understands his brothers the muslim murdering scum. We are just not enlightened like his brilliant appeasing ass is .-;)-Tyr

[jimnyc]

jimnyc: Many will still deny it today, more than 12 years after the Cole attack that killed 17 sailors. But...everyone In the Navy, and those of us who served In the Navy knew.....ANY ATTACK on a U.S Navy ship is....AN ACT OF WAR!

All Navy ships now have their own ZIP Code, and they are considered the Territory of the USA.

If any nation attacks a U.S. Base, or Ship like the Cole. It was, and should have been declared an Act of War by Clinton.

4071
The U.S.S. Cole

But was it "an act of war" or was it a terror attack? I've believed, as has our state department, that the USS Cole bombing and the bombing in SA were terrorist attacks. Understood that it should be all out war against the perpetrators at that point, but are the perpetrators terrorists, or armies, militias, freedom fighters? I still say they were terrorist attacks.


Jim, you are correct, Log is wrong. He apparently thinks that terrorists are "freedom fighters" by pretending that they are merely fighting for territory or the nation. We all know that they fight for Jihad, for religion , for Islam! And that they murder innocent women and children for Allah! Along with the fact that they were no uniform but log STILL considers them soldiers(AKA FREEDOM FIGHTERS)! Such is the mentality of a cowardly lying muslim appeasor IMHO! Apparently that is why he also called those terrorist training camps in our nation , militia's, with his view that they are "freedom fighters"! I believe that more than just the deceit and fraud of abso and jafar has been exsposed here this week. Log ALSO is certainly NOT what he has been pretending to be IMHO.
"freedom fighters" my ass, log can shove it !-Tyr

Al Qaeda came to Iraq solely looking to kill American troops. They couldn't have cared less about freedom of the Iraqi people. Their goal was to kill Americans. Hell, I highly doubt it was about freedom as they committed attacks against Iraqi's too! I just don't think we can call them less than they are, terrorists, just because their particular target at the moment was in uniform.

[aboutime]

But was it "an act of war" or was it a terror attack? I've believed, as has our state department, that the USS Cole bombing and the bombing in SA were terrorist attacks. Understood that it should be all out war against the perpetrators at that point, but are the perpetrators terrorists, or armies, militias, freedom fighters? I still say they were terrorist attacks.



Al Qaeda came to Iraq solely looking to kill American troops. They couldn't have cared less about freedom of the Iraqi people. Their goal was to kill Americans. Hell, I highly doubt it was about freedom as they committed attacks against Iraqi's too! I just don't think we can call them less than they are, terrorists, just because their particular target at the moment was in uniform.


jimnyc: I believe Clinton declared it a Terrorist attack. Then promised that those who carried it out, would be brought to justice. Which is where the Obama admin got the idea to try those Terrorists in New York City....before so much noise prevented it.

Members of the Navy all knew. Any attack on a U.S. Navy ship IS AN ACT OF WAR.
But the WUSS-IN-CHIEF didn't dare say such a thing since he had a Democrat majority in Congress.

[Marcus Aurelius]

So, I guess I scared jafar away with this one, huh.

[jimnyc]

So, I guess I scared jafar away with this one, huh.

Not likely. But I have noticed in my experience, members sometimes take time off and return in the hopes that certain things will be forgotten. I know I would take a little vacation if I was outed as a terrorist supporter.

[aboutime]

So, I guess I scared jafar away with this one, huh.


Marcus. No. I believe jafar is waiting for Sunset, wherever he is. That is probably when his Holy day ends, and he can begin to Plot all of the Next Week of Lies he has planned in defense of Terrorists.

[jafar00]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad_the_Liar

Multiple examples from hadiths, showing Muhammad admitted lying was ok when it suited him.

So? Mohamed (saw) had Ka'b killed because he incited the Quraysh against Mohamed and the Muslims. In a way, Ka'b was like Osama bin Laden, and you had him killed.


Lying, from what I've seen, is rife in Islam ... for a creed that cares about 'honour' (supposedly), they're prepared to do a lot of it when it suits them.

I've just found this link. Partially quoted ... the entire piece is highly instructive, for those not already aware of such truths ..

http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islamic-Principle-Lying-for-Allah.htm

Taqiyya is from Shia'ism, not Islam. We have already debated this one at length in an earlier thread. Do we really need to do it again?


That pure bull, they are terrorist attacks that are carried out to support a religion== Islam. I do not know if you would beat a woman but your religion supports , condones and teaches to do exactly that. If you are a true muslim you must support that because according to your holy book and Muhammad IT IS TAUGHT AS THE CORRECT THING TO DO.. --Tyr

Terrorism is political, not religious. Islam doesn't in any way support terrorism anyway. I know your lies are designed to deceive others against the Muslims, but I'm sure you can leave that up to MOSSAD. They are the experts at it.


jimnyc: Many will still deny it today, more than 12 years after the Cole attack that killed 17 sailors. But...everyone In the Navy, and those of us who served In the Navy knew.....ANY ATTACK on a U.S Navy ship is....AN ACT OF WAR!

All Navy ships now have their own ZIP Code, and they are considered the Territory of the USA.

If any nation attacks a U.S. Base, or Ship like the Cole. It was, and should have been declared an Act of War by Clinton.

4071
The U.S.S. Cole

So why wasn't war declared when the USS Liberty was attacked?

[jimnyc]

So why wasn't war declared when the USS Liberty was attacked?

Did the muslim filth who bombed the Cole apologize and claim it to have been mistaken for a legitimate enemy of war? Didn't think so.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=594699#post594699)

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_...ammad_the_Liar (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad_the_Liar)

Multiple examples from hadiths, showing Muhammad admitted lying was ok when it suited him.


So? Mohamed (saw) had Ka'b killed because he incited the Quraysh against Mohamed and the Muslims. In a way, Ka'b was like Osama bin Laden, and you had him killed.

You completely ignored what I said about Mohammad lying when it suited him. Why did you do that? Are you afraid to admit that Mohammad lied when he felt like it?

[jafar00]

You completely ignored what I said about Mohammad lying when it suited him. Why did you do that? Are you afraid to admit that Mohammad lied when he felt like it?

There is no evidence from any scripture that Mohamed (saw) ever lied. There is more evidence to the contrary.

[Gaffer]

So? Mohamed (saw) had Ka'b killed because he incited the Quraysh against Mohamed and the Muslims. In a way, Ka'b was like Osama bin Laden, and you had him killed.



Taqiyya is from Shia'ism, not Islam. We have already debated this one at length in an earlier thread. Do we really need to do it again?



Terrorism is political, not religious. Islam doesn't in any way support terrorism anyway. I know your lies are designed to deceive others against the Muslims, but I'm sure you can leave that up to MOSSAD. They are the experts at it.



So why wasn't war declared when the USS Liberty was attacked?

Because clinton was in office.

[Marcus Aurelius]

There is no evidence from any scripture that Mohamed (saw) ever lied. There is more evidence to the contrary.


Again, you are ignoring what I actually said...



Multiple examples from hadiths, showing Muhammad admitted lying was ok when it suited him.

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml



http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

From the Hadith:
Bukhari (52:269) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Bukhari (49:857) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/049-sbt.php#003.049.857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Bukhari (84:64-65) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/084-sbt.php#009.084.064) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."

Muslim (32:6303) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/032-smt.php#032.6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."

Bukhari (50:369) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/059-sbt.php#005.059.369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.


And yes, even Mohammad himself lied...
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/mhd_amin.htm


Narrated Zahdam:
We were in the company of Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari and there were friendly relations between us and this tribe of Jarm. Abu Musa was presented with a dish containing chicken. Among the people there was sitting a red-faced man who did not come near the food. Abu Musa said (to him), "Come on (and eat), for I have seen Allah's Apostle eating of it (i.e. chicken)." He said, "I have seen it eating something (dirty) and since then I have disliked it, and have taken an oath that I shall not eat it." Abu Musa said, "Come on, I will tell you (or narrate to you). Once I went to Allah’s Apostle with a group of Al-Ash'ariyin, and met him while he was angry, distributing some camels of Rakat. We asked for mounts but he took an oath that he would not give us any mounts, and added, ‘I have nothing to mount you on.’ In the meantime some camels of booty were brought to Allah's Apostle and he asked twice, ‘Where are Al-Ash'ariyin?" So he gave us five white camels with big humps. We stayed for a short while (after we had covered a little distance), and then I said to my companions, ‘Allah's Apostle has forgotten his oath. By Allah, if we do not remind Allah's Apostle of his oath, we will never be successful.’ So we returned to the Prophet and said, ‘O Allah's Apostle! We asked you for mounts, but you took an oath that you would not give us any mounts; we think that you have forgotten your oath.’ He said, ‘It is Allah Who has given you mounts. By Allah, and Allah willing, if I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 67, Number 427 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/067.sbt.html#007.067.427))




Your Qua'ran... your holy book... says Mohammad allowed lies if it suited him. Of course, you will either ignore this again, or lie yourself.

[jimnyc]

Your Qua'ran... your holy book... says Mohammad allowed lies if it suited him. Of course, you will either ignore this again, or lie yourself.

Even when it's right there in the Quran, I've seen MANY muslims come up with excuse after excuse after excuse. It'll be a bad translation, we don't understand, that's not what he meant, it was different time...

But remember - the Quran IS the word of God - not man, but God. So therefore, any denying of what is written is denying God's word. LOL Yeah, right.

So let's tally the score thus far: Muhammad drank, he was a liar & he then "played" with the kiddies.

[Drummond]

So? Mohamed (saw) had Ka'b killed because he incited the Quraysh against Mohamed and the Muslims. In a way, Ka'b was like Osama bin Laden, and you had him killed.

Taqiyya is from Shia'ism, not Islam. We have already debated this one at length in an earlier thread. Do we really need to do it again?

Terrorism is political, not religious. Islam doesn't in any way support terrorism anyway. I know your lies are designed to deceive others against the Muslims, but I'm sure you can leave that up to MOSSAD. They are the experts at it.

So why wasn't war declared when the USS Liberty was attacked?

Jafar, this is really tiresome .. and so easily countered ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam


Shia Islam (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): شيعة‎, Shīʿah) is the second largest denomination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches) of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam). Adherents of Shia Islam are called Shi'ites or Shias. "Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shīʻatu ʻAlī (شيعة علي), meaning "followers", "faction", or "party" of Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin Ali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali), whom the Shia believe to be Muhammad's successor. Like other branches of Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Quran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran) and the message of the Islamic prophet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_in_Islam) Muhammad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad). In contrast to other types, the Shia believe that only God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Islam) has the right to choose a representative to safeguard Islam, the Quran and sharia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia). Thus the Shias look to Ali, Muhammad's son-in-law, whom they consider divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam). The Shia extend this belief to Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahl_al-Bayt) ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, known as imams, who have special spiritual and political authority over the community.

SHIA ISLAM IS THE SECOND LARGEST DENOMINATION OF ISLAM !!

Now tell me that this Wikipedia entry is entirely false !

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=595039#post595039)



Taqiyya is from Shia'ism, not Islam.



Jafar, this is really tiresome .. and so easily countered ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam



SHIA ISLAM IS THE SECOND LARGEST DENOMINATION OF ISLAM !!

Now tell me that this Wikipedia entry is entirely false !

Jafar saying Shia is not part of Islam, is like me saying Catholicism is not part of Christianity.

By declaring Shia is not part of Islam, Jafar outs himself as a complete fake.

[aboutime]

Jafar saying Shia is not part of Islam, is like me saying Catholicism is not part of Christianity.

By declaring Shia is not part of Islam, Jafar outs himself as a complete fake.


Marcus. I have been repeating the warnings to all here, about how to BEWARE of FALSE PROPHETS, like jafar.
4074

[jimnyc]

Jafar, this is really tiresome .. and so easily countered ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam



SHIA ISLAM IS THE SECOND LARGEST DENOMINATION OF ISLAM !!

Now tell me that this Wikipedia entry is entirely false !

Yep, he has previously denied that 75 million people in Iran are Muslims. That's what happens when you disagree religiously, you are cast aside.

[Kathianne]

I'd like to see a Muslim country against Sharia. Jafar?

[jimnyc]

I'd like to see a Muslim country against Sharia. Jafar?

I'd also like to see if Shia's claim that Sunni Muslims are not Muslim. I know people from both sides, and although they disagree about who followed Muhammad and other things, none of them consider the other to not be Islamic.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

an attack on uniformed militia doesn't qualify as terrorism. A terror attack is an attack on noncombatants.

WRONG and your true colors are showing. Finally summoned up the nads to spit it out did ya??-Tyr

[aboutime]

WRONG and your true colors are showing. Finally summoned up the nads to spit it out did ya??-Tyr


Logroller should explain how that attack on those soldiers, and civilians at FORT HOOD could be identified????

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Logroller should explain how that attack on those soldiers, and civilians at FORT HOOD could be identified????

Sure, it was an attack upon American soldiers so logroller already declared it not a terrorist ATTACK said it can not be, his words not mine! Only attacks upon non-combatants according to the enlightened appeasor.. Just pay no attention to the Major muslim yelling Allah Akbar and being in touch with a known muslim terrorist leader while he was gunning down unarmed soldiers. .
Dont you just wish we could be as enlightened as logroller??

HOW ABOUT IT LOGROLLER?? WAS IT A TERRORIST ATTACK OR JUST "WORKPLACE VIOLENCE" AS YOUR BOY OBAMA AN HIS ADMINISTRATION DECLARED IT TO BE!!??-Tyr

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Great warrior http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=594810#post594810)



Chiefs of disbelievers tried to seduce him with money, women, & authority, but he refused,




Of course he did, he had a child already!

was that the child he was having sex with, or a different child?