Reason why Blacks back Obama

[Robert A Whit]

Look at what they have behind bars? And Obama supports them.



By Peter WagnerWritten for Upstate Prison Response, October 7, 2001
The national rise in incarceration appears to have slowed, and in New York the prison population has already dropped 3% since the peak of about 72,000 at the turn of the millennium. Governor Pataki's "right-sizing" plan includes a 9% drop in the total prison population, and the shifting of prison resources to shorten the sentences of non-violent offenders and lengthen those of "violent" offenders. Excluded from the plan to shift resources within the criminal justice is any serious attempt to examine whether high incarceration serves any valid social purpose at all.
No credible evidence has been introduced that raising the New York State prison population from 12,579 in 1970 to 71,466 in 2000 has made a change in the rate that crime occurs. Despite having more police per capita than another other state, and despite spending $1 billion a year to operate prisons, New York faces approximately the same degree of crime it has faced since the start of crime statistics in the 1930s.
What New York has done in recent decades is incarcerate an increasing number of its Black, Latino and Indigenous citizens. Minorities account for 87.6% of the growth in New York's prison population since 1970. Within the shorter period of 1985 - 1997, the figure was 90%, higher than any other state. Whites make up 16% of New York prisons, Blacks 51% and Latinos 31%.

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/articles/upr100701.html

[fj1200]

An 11-year old story is evidence of what exactly?

[Robert A Whit]

An 11-year old story is evidence of what exactly?

I will be more than happy to study your own more current data. My post explained what it was all about.

[fj1200]

I will be more than happy to study your own more current data. My post explained what it was all about.

So blacks support BO because of a story about minority incarceration four years before he emerged on the national scene? :rolleyes:

[red states rule]

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/185927.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So blacks support BO because of a story about minority incarceration four years before he emerged on the national scene? :rolleyes:

No, they support BO because he promises free stuff forever and they as a race have zero honor , very little intelligence(poor public education) and are basicly lazy buzzards depending on the carcass to last forever. Is that blunt enough for you? Truth plays no favorites.. -Tyr

[aboutime]

Anyone willing to make take any guesses on How Long it will be before the New Obama Term instructs the U.S.Mint, and the Treasury to replace "IN GOD WE TRUST" with ALLAH AKBAR????

[fj1200]

No, they support BO because he promises free stuff forever and they as a race have zero honor , very little intelligence(poor public education) and are basicly lazy buzzards depending on the carcass to last forever. Is that blunt enough for you? Truth plays no favorites.. -Tyr

1. Your racism is coming along quite nicely I see, and
2. Your conclusion doesn't match the premise of the thread.

[aboutime]

1. Your racism is coming along quite nicely I see, and
2. Your conclusion doesn't match the premise of the thread.


fj. There ya go again. Proving how the use of the accusation about racism ends the discussion, exactly the way Liberals intend.

As for the conclusion not matching the premise of the thread.

Did you, or anyone else ask WHY White Americans back Obama?

[fj1200]

fj. There ya go again. Proving how the use of the accusation about racism ends the discussion, exactly the way Liberals intend.

As for the conclusion not matching the premise of the thread.

Did you, or anyone else ask WHY White Americans back Obama?

So are you choosing to ignore the blatant racism in his post? Please explain the relevance of white Americans supporting BO in a thread about black Americans.

[aboutime]

So are you choosing to ignore the blatant racism in his post? Please explain the relevance of white Americans supporting BO in a thread about black Americans.



fj. The One, and Only Blatant aspect of this thread so far has been Your Racist accusation.

[Robert A Whit]

1. Your racism is coming along quite nicely I see, and
2. Your conclusion doesn't match the premise of the thread.

I assume you find fault with blacks for being racist.

Do you realize that in no state is racism against the law. Were it illegal, a lot more blacks would be in prison.

[fj1200]

fj. The One, and Only Blatant aspect of this thread so far has been Your Racist accusation.

Don't be a fool in defending his supposed honor. You might also want to understand the definition of racism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism).


I assume you find fault with blacks for being racist.

Do you realize that in no state is racism against the law. Were it illegal, a lot more blacks would be in prison.

Acting on racism is against the law via discrimination and hate crimes. A little thought exercise for you; you believe blacks believe in their inherent superiority at a higher rate than whites?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

1. Your racism is coming along quite nicely I see, and
2. Your conclusion doesn't match the premise of the thread.

Truth is not racist, it is however the TRUTH..--Tyr

[fj1200]

Truth is not racist, it is however the TRUTH..--Tyr

I stated your racism was coming along nicely and you state it as truth. Where is the disconnect?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I stated your racism was coming along nicely and you state it as truth. Where is the disconnect?

Obviously, you have not the slightest concept of the absolute certainty inherent in TRUTH. TRUTH
STANDS ON ITS OWN , WITHOUT MY SUPPORT AND DESPITE YOUR OBJECTIONS. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Obviously, you have not the slightest concept of the absolute certainty inherent in TRUTH. TRUTH
STANDS ON ITS OWN , WITHOUT MY SUPPORT AND DESPITE YOUR OBJECTIONS. -Tyr

I didn't object, I accept your racism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism). :dunno:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I didn't object, I accept your racism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism). :dunno:

And I accept your compulsive need to lie to feel good about yourself. Are we square then? -Tyr

[fj1200]

And I accept your compulsive need to lie to feel good about yourself. Are we square then? -Tyr

No, we're not square. You repeatedly state that I lie and when asked to point out where I have done so, you disappear into other threads. So, again, where did I lie?

[aboutime]

No, we're not square. You repeatedly state that I lie and when asked to point out where I have done so, you disappear into other threads. So, again, where did I lie?


fj. The mere fact that you DENY lying is a LIE. Nothing else needs to be said on that subject. You cannot change the truth.

[fj1200]

fj. The mere fact that you DENY lying is a LIE. Nothing else needs to be said on that subject. You cannot change the truth.

:facepalm99: Thank you for your ignorant fall back position; no one has even told me what I lied about to start to deny?

[aboutime]

:facepalm99: Thank you for your ignorant fall back position; no one has even told me what I lied about to start to deny?


No. Thank you for understanding the ignorance you present.

[fj1200]

No. Thank you for understanding the ignorance you present.

Whatever dude. Do you also agree with post #6? I see you thanked it.

[Robert A Whit]

Acting on racism is against the law via discrimination and hate crimes. A little thought exercise for you; you believe blacks believe in their inherent superiority at a higher rate than whites?

I did not say acting on anything, I said that racism is not illegal.
I am not sure what Blacks think when they are racists.
Matter of fact, around here, I doubt it is that whites think about being superior, but they sure don't like being around some really dumb people who scream all the time at each other and commit so many crimes.

I am in a building that has 6 offices. 50 percent have had blacks act as criminals and use guns to rob for money. Not even one white crime has happened.

If I don't want to have blacks around here, why would you resent this?

[Robert A Whit]

So blacks support BO because of a story about minority incarceration four years before he emerged on the national scene? :rolleyes:

I read my post over and over and can't understand why you made that remark.

[fj1200]

I did not say acting on anything, I said that racism is not illegal.
I am not sure what Blacks think when they are racists.
Matter of fact, around here, I doubt it is that whites think about being superior, but they sure don't like being around some really dumb people who scream all the time at each other and commit so many crimes.

I am in a building that has 6 offices. 50 percent have had blacks act as criminals and use guns to rob for money. Not even one white crime has happened.

If I don't want to have blacks around here, why would you resent this?

Why put words in my mouth? I simply stated that acting on racism via discrimination is illegal. If you refuse to rent to someone or hire someone simply based on the color of their skin; that is illegal. In fact you don't even have to be a racist to get in trouble for it, there are plenty of legal arguments that have been used to prove discrimination, disparate impact for one.


I read my post over and over and can't understand why you made that remark.

How sad for you.

[Robert A Whit]

Why put words in my mouth? I simply stated that acting on racism via discrimination is illegal. If you refuse to rent to someone or hire someone simply based on the color of their skin; that is illegal. In fact you don't even have to be a racist to get in trouble for it, there are plenty of legal arguments that have been used to prove discrimination, disparate impact for one.

What words were put in your mouth and by whom?

I apparently used words you did not understand so you added your words to my comments. I explained that I had not said the words you claimed I said and you replied it was sad.

Since it was not found in the constitution, states have passed laws to punish some for things like people protecting their own property from those whom almost always turn out to be undesirable.

I have hired blacks. I have had blacks as clients. Do you realize that almost all discriminate?

I have a well to do black client (I hope he still is since I came out of the closet and urged him to vote for Romney and he got pissed off) who shows tons of resentment and who do you suppose he resents? Not blacks.

In my own commercial building, 50 percent of the tenants were robbed at gun point by blacks.

Forgive me for not resenting whites since no white has robbed this building's tenants. We had years and years of them shunning tis town. Once they decided to target this city, crime rates went up. We have murders now.

Still I gave blacks jobs. Kelty came from Ethiopia. He came to me one day saying he really needed money and would I please advance his wages for 3 appraisals I gave him as an assignment.

Being kind hearted and a sucker I suppose for a good story, I gave him the money he asked for.

Not only did he not do the appraisals, that was the final time I ever saw him. Turns out he is a scam artist with a license to appraise.

I won't bore you with the many times blacks have scammed me and taken advantage of me, so forgive me if I lost trust in almost all of them.

[fj1200]

I apparently used words you did not understand...

No, not really, but thank you for another sclerotic anecdote from the vast thread of your life.

[gabosaurus]

Arguing with tyr is like mud wrestling with a pig. Pretty soon you realize that the pig enjoys it.

[Robert A Whit]

No, not really, but thank you for another sclerotic anecdote from the vast thread of your life.

Hardened cells you claim?

But you are welcome to my explanation that included some facts trying to illustrate my point.

You know, when you become 74, you too will have a rich past from which to draw from. I hope nobody at that time tries to mock you.

I have never once used the word schlerotic but I do own a top rated dictionary.
Maybe what you tried to do was use a word in an improper context assuming nobody would look up the definition. Crap like that happens on the internet.

[Robert A Whit]

Some of you seem to have wrestled with pigs. I have not ever done that.

Since Gabby brings this up, I would love to know why she thinks pigs enjoy humans trying to grab and hold them in mud?

[fj1200]

Hardened cells you claim?

But you are welcome to my explanation that included some facts trying to illustrate my point.

You know, when you become 74, you too will have a rich past from which to draw from. I hope nobody at that time tries to mock you.

I have never once used the word schlerotic but I do own a top rated dictionary.
Maybe what you tried to do was use a word in an improper context assuming nobody would look up the definition. Crap like that happens on the internet.

I was happy with the definition.

Becoming rigid and unresponsive; losing the ability to adapt:

And what you brought up didn't really respond to the information I presented so...

[Abbey Marie]

No, not really, but thank you for another sclerotic anecdote from the vast thread of your life.

Why mock?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Arguing with tyr is like mud wrestling with a pig. Pretty soon you realize that the pig enjoys it.

I dare say if you tried it , who could tell which one was the pig or the winner? ..
I do not back way from getting dirty when its called for but unlike your liberal kind its not always my first choice.--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why mock?

He mocks another man's long life experiences because he knows he is superior because his ego tells him so.. Who needs real life validation when that "inner voice" speaks so generously, so well and so admirably about one's greatness??
Right fj1200?? ;)--Tyr

[aboutime]

Arguing with tyr is like mud wrestling with a pig. Pretty soon you realize that the pig enjoys it.



So you should stop all MUD WRESTLING Gabby.

[fj1200]

He mocks another man's long life experiences because he knows he is superior because his ego tells him so.. Who needs real life validation when that "inner voice" speaks so generously, so well and so admirably about one's greatness??
Right fj1200?? ;)--Tyr

I'm sorry, you were saying something while not giving an example where you stated that I lied?

BTW, I don't mock his life experiences I downplayed a meandering post that really didn't address the point I made.

[DragonStryk72]

Look at what they have behind bars? And Obama supports them.



By Peter WagnerWritten for Upstate Prison Response, October 7, 2001
The national rise in incarceration appears to have slowed, and in New York the prison population has already dropped 3% since the peak of about 72,000 at the turn of the millennium. Governor Pataki's "right-sizing" plan includes a 9% drop in the total prison population, and the shifting of prison resources to shorten the sentences of non-violent offenders and lengthen those of "violent" offenders. Excluded from the plan to shift resources within the criminal justice is any serious attempt to examine whether high incarceration serves any valid social purpose at all.
No credible evidence has been introduced that raising the New York State prison population from 12,579 in 1970 to 71,466 in 2000 has made a change in the rate that crime occurs. Despite having more police per capita than another other state, and despite spending $1 billion a year to operate prisons, New York faces approximately the same degree of crime it has faced since the start of crime statistics in the 1930s.
What New York has done in recent decades is incarcerate an increasing number of its Black, Latino and Indigenous citizens. Minorities account for 87.6% of the growth in New York's prison population since 1970. Within the shorter period of 1985 - 1997, the figure was 90%, higher than any other state. Whites make up 16% of New York prisons, Blacks 51% and Latinos 31%.

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/articles/upr100701.html

Um, no, they vote for a black president for the same reason that military men and women tend to vote for the candidate that's served, and more so if they've served in combat. We feel like we'll be more well represented by a person who belongs to our "group", whatever that group might be. It's why people will vote for a bad Dem or Rep candidate, as well, because whether they're crap or not, most people will vote for "their" guy. It's stupid, tribal mentality, and it's not anything new to humanity.

[Robert A Whit]

I was happy with the definition.


And what you brought up didn't really respond to the information I presented so...

Sure, so long as you were discussing biology of cells.

Look, I believe I am well versed in this topic given that as a child I as blacks was taunted and held up for ridicule.

Sort of what you are trying to do. I been there and done that.

[logroller]

Obviously, you have not the slightest concept of the absolute certainty inherent in TRUTH. TRUTH
STANDS ON ITS OWN , WITHOUT MY SUPPORT AND DESPITE YOUR OBJECTIONS. -Tyr
Truth is, You are a racist with an inclination to incite violence and genocide.

[Robert A Whit]

Um, no, they vote for a black president for the same reason that military men and women tend to vote for the candidate that's served, and more so if they've served in combat. We feel like we'll be more well represented by a person who belongs to our "group", whatever that group might be. It's why people will vote for a bad Dem or Rep candidate, as well, because whether they're crap or not, most people will vote for "their" guy. It's stupid, tribal mentality, and it's not anything new to humanity.\\

His race or color is no issue for me. And when I was in the military, I was a devoted Democrat.

I believe democrats get votes due to promises they make using other people's money.

In other words, they are common crooks. I am sure as you say some voted for Obama since he is part of their group of crooks.

[red states rule]

Um, no, they vote for a black president for the same reason that military men and women tend to vote for the candidate that's served, and more so if they've served in combat. We feel like we'll be more well represented by a person who belongs to our "group", whatever that group might be. It's why people will vote for a bad Dem or Rep candidate, as well, because whether they're crap or not, most people will vote for "their" guy. It's stupid, tribal mentality, and it's not anything new to humanity.

I recall Al Gore trying to toss out the military vote in 2000, and John Kerry (who served in Vietnam) got about 25% of the military vote. So your theory does not hold up.

[fj1200]

Sure, so long as you were discussing biology of cells.

Look, I believe I am well versed in this topic given that as a child I as blacks was taunted and held up for ridicule.

Sort of what you are trying to do. I been there and done that.

My apologies for you not accepting the definition I posted but my only comment was that while I agreed with you that racism is not illegal, discrimination is. Do you disagree with that statement?


I recall Al Gore trying to toss out the military vote in 2000, and John Kerry (who served in Vietnam) got about 25% of the military vote. So your theory does not hold up.

It doesn't require 90% voting rates for it to be valid.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Truth is, You are a racist with an inclination to incite violence and genocide.

:laugh: :laugh2: :laugh:.. What proof of that do you have ye master of blather?? I am of mixed race heritage myself(White/Native American ), I married a brown skin lady a filipina, my family has two mexicans married into it and they are cherished members, my grandson Caleb is half white -half Thai, my beautiful niece Rachel is half white-half mexican. Got anymore brilliant accusations? A pathetic accusation ,you feel desperate now because you 've assigned me to be a racist, a traitor and a desperado seeking genocide . Not clear exactly on that ,who am I wanting to be totally wiped out other than muslim terrorist scum/murderers which I freely admit?-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Um, no, they vote for a black president for the same reason that military men and women tend to vote for the candidate that's served, and more so if they've served in combat. We feel like we'll be more well represented by a person who belongs to our "group", whatever that group might be. It's why people will vote for a bad Dem or Rep candidate, as well, because whether they're crap or not, most people will vote for "their" guy. It's stupid, tribal mentality, and it's not anything new to humanity.

Our "group", exactly, as the black folk vote for a black man.

[fj1200]

Our "group", exactly, as the black folk vote for a black man.

It is of no use to merely complain about it, the trick is for conservatives to understand how to break that dynamic.

[jimnyc]

It is of no use to merely complain about it, the trick is for conservatives to understand how to break that dynamic.

I'm not really "complaining" as I expected nothing less, merely pointing out the facts/stats, and perhaps pointing out the political idiocy behind it. While one may be happy to see the same color skin in the white house, it's doing nothing at all to actually help them. And in reality, at least speaking economically, things have gotten worse for them as well since 2008, in fact worse than other groups. Voting by color is dumb no matter which side may do it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It is of no use to merely complain about it, the trick is for conservatives to understand how to break that dynamic.

Too late for that. The free stuff revolution has begun and borne fruit. A century and a half since slavery was outlawed here and they enslave themselves by selling out to the highest bidder, the dem party. Nobody sold them this time but they themselves. The carrot on the stick was just too alluring and they not up to standard to resist it! Reality is a bitch sometimes but it is what it is. They voted to be cared for children. That way they can conitnue in the way they enjoy, al the vices and almost no responsibilities! Its a match made in hell and we the true hard working Americans have to pay for it.
How do you plan on getting them to actually stand up and toss off those chains that they voluntarily put on?
Trying to buy them isnt going to work, they are already bought!-Tyr

[fj1200]

How do you plan on getting them to actually stand up and toss off those chains that they voluntarily put on?
Trying to buy them isnt going to work, they are already bought!-Tyr

I'm pretty sure your claiming superiority isn't going to work either. :rolleyes:

[aboutime]

Too late for that. The free stuff revolution has begun and borne fruit. A century and a half since slavery was outlawed here and they enslave themselves by selling out to the highest bidder, the dem party. Nobody sold them this time but they themselves. The carrot on the stick was just too alluring and they not up to standard to resist it! Reality is a bitch sometimes but it is what it is. They voted to be cared for children. That way they can conitnue in the way they enjoy, al the vices and almost no responsibilities! Its a match made in hell and we the true hard working Americans have to pay for it.
How do you plan on getting them to actually stand up and toss off those chains that they voluntarily put on?
Trying to buy them isnt going to work, they are already bought!-Tyr


Tyr. What seems to have been missed in all of this discussion about Why Blacks backed Obama is.

Without knowing, understanding, or being smart enough to recognize it. The Huge numbers of Black, or African Americans who so easily chose to vote for Obama were.....(in Historical respects, and thinking)...allowing the Democrats, and Obama to place them back into the unwritten status as American Slaves...again.

Obama and the Democrats have presented all of the necessary, required gifts, and appeasement tactics they need to maintain that HORRIBLE CONTROL over a sector of the American population who still feels....The rest of America OWES them because of the past, terrible History over Slavery.
As long as Obama, and the Democrats are able to convince Black Americans THEY NEED Government to survive. They will happily remain SLAVES.

[fj1200]

Tyr. What seems to have been missed in all of this discussion about Why Blacks backed Obama is.

... the Democrats have presented all of the necessary, required gifts, and appeasement tactics they need...

If you've got a theory let's hear it but I'd say it's pretty clear that 100% of the black population that votes Dem does NOT receive gifts.

[aboutime]

If you've got a theory let's hear it but I'd say it's pretty clear that 100% of the black population that votes Dem does NOT receive gifts.


fj. If you read my earlier statement. At no time did I say ALL, or any percentage of the Black population. But, based on the huge numbers recorded during the election. Is there any doubt that the Black Americans who voted, were predominantly for Obama?

[DragonStryk72]

\\

His race or color is no issue for me. And when I was in the military, I was a devoted Democrat.

I believe democrats get votes due to promises they make using other people's money.

In other words, they are common crooks. I am sure as you say some voted for Obama since he is part of their group of crooks.

Okay, I wasn't talking about you in specific, even if you're a black man. John Kerry was a Dem, so why is that even an argument? There are military folks in every party.

Most vote for who they think will represent them the best. This is why candidates usually win their home state almost every time, with the only exceptions being those that have done something to really piss off their people. Not "crooks" as you put it, but people who they feel would better represent them. They don't honestly believe they're putting crooks into power, and most are essentially decent folks themselves, even if misguided.

[aboutime]

Okay, I wasn't talking about you in specific, even if you're a black man. John Kerry was a Dem, so why is that even an argument? There are military folks in every party.

Most vote for who they think will represent them the best. This is why candidates usually win their home state almost every time, with the only exceptions being those that have done something to really piss off their people. Not "crooks" as you put it, but people who they feel would better represent them. They don't honestly believe they're putting crooks into power, and most are essentially decent folks themselves, even if misguided.


DragonStryk. From what all of us have seen over the last 20 or more years of elections. You are correct about people not believing they are putting crooks into power. Generally. The Electorate...namely those Americans who vote, but have no reason why, nor are they smart enough to actually make good choices for politicians. Are not educated enough to have any understanding of the differences between crooks, and other crooks who run for office.
Thus. The sad state of our Nation, from Top, to Bottom. Created by generally Decent folks who are misguided, but just simply DO NOT CARE.

[fj1200]

fj. If you read my earlier statement. At no time did I say ALL, or any percentage of the Black population. But, based on the huge numbers recorded during the election. Is there any doubt that the Black Americans who voted, were predominantly for Obama?

Oh please, everyone knows what you mean. If the black vote came out closer to 50/50 this wouldn't even be an issue.

[jimnyc]

Oh please, everyone knows what you mean. If the black vote came out closer to 50/50 this wouldn't even be an issue.

Agreed, my issue was the huge jump when a black man ran for the highest office. It was already in a largely unexplainable high for Democrat, but skyrocketed to 90+% when Obama ran 2x.

[fj1200]

Agreed, my issue was the huge jump when a black man ran for the highest office. It was already in a largely unexplainable high for Democrat, but skyrocketed to 90+% when Obama ran 2x.

The jump in '64 was huge. From 88% to 90+% in '08/'12 around isn't huge.

[jimnyc]

The jump in '64 was huge. From 88% to 90+% in '08/'12 around isn't huge.

Because both times it was Obama - I'm more talking about the jump from '04 and prior to when Obama ran, which if I recall correctly from when you posted the stats, was nearly a 15-20% jump.

[fj1200]

Because both times it was Obama - I'm more talking about the jump from '04 and prior to when Obama ran, which if I recall correctly from when you posted the stats, was nearly a 15-20% jump.

No, in '04 it was at 88% (http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks-and-the-democratic-party/) which precludes your guesstimate and it was higher in '00 anywa. The point I'm trying to make is that they are by and large not voting "for their own" they're voting Dem which you said is "largely unexplainable." It's that which needs to be analyzed and reversed not making rash explanations that will further drive the black vote away from conservatism.

[jimnyc]

No, in '04 it was at 88% (http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks-and-the-democratic-party/) which precludes your guesstimate and it was higher in '00 anywa. The point I'm trying to make is that they are by and large not voting "for their own" they're voting Dem which you said is "largely unexplainable." It's that which needs to be analyzed and reversed not making rash explanations that will further drive the black vote away from conservatism.

Even worse, while they give explanations for segregation and voting, I see it started going much higher after the 30's and into the 40's, when welfare started, then jumped again in the 60's when food stamps and money for having babies started!

[fj1200]

Even worse, while they give explanations for segregation and voting, I see it started going much higher after the 30's and into the 40's, when welfare started, then jumped again in the 60's when food stamps and money for having babies started!

IIRC it started with FDR in '32/'36, and a particular black preacher that I don't recall the name of but was talked about at length in the Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes, and even then FDR's own policies hurt black sharecroppers more than white landowners. I'm not sure how much welfare there was prior to the Great Society but to continually see the cause there is harmful to future vote getting for Republicans. It's almost better to just leave it behind IMO and focus on how conservative policies are better for everyone including blacks.

I heard a few minutes of Rush this week talking about the RNC Convention and how every speaker talked down government and talked up individual initiative while expecting that this would resonate with those who depend on government in some form. Wouldn't a better approach be to speak of how government can be made to work better by doing less while still providing a safety net for those who are on the bottom of the ladder with almost zero expectation of being able to move up? Examples of how misguided policies actually make life harder for people to get ahead are fair game in that scenario but we need to explain the benefits of whatever we are proposing; the ACA is bad because... Corporate tax rates need to be cut because... Charter schools and vouchers are better because... The possibilities are endless but it's a huge educational endeavor and is going to take several cycles and the right candidates. The right candidates are going to be the ones who don't belittle potential voters with pointless rhetoric.