Wonder What That "Financial Cliff" Is All About?

[Kathianne]

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2012/11/tax-foundation-.html

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/121111newdirectionRGB20121111054827.jpg

[Kathianne]

From the OP, I was thinking of some serious issues:


...The fiscal cliff is the culmination of a decade of “temporary” tax and budget bills that have postponed resolution of key policy differences. Should the tax code be used to heavily promote income distribution or aim instead to raise revenue in the least distortive manner possible? How large should federal spending be? Should PPACA be modified or repealed? Should there be a federal estate tax and if so, at what level? Should the payroll tax be reduced and if so, how should we fund Social Security and Medicare? What should Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid look like as the population ages?...

[gabosaurus]

A very intriguing and somewhat startling explanation. Let's hope our legislators can put aside partisan bickering and find a solution.

[Nukeman]

A very intriguing and somewhat startling explanation. Let's hope our legislators can put aside partisan bickering and find a solution.

I wouldn't count on it!!!

[mundame]

A very intriguing and somewhat startling explanation. Let's hope our legislators can put aside partisan bickering and find a solution.


It didn't seem startling or intriguing to me --- did we read the same article? It just said that the whole point of the Fiscal Cliff is to postpone resolution of .........well, everything. All of the issues.

And that the gov. is sure to postpone it all again.

"...past practice suggests Washington will once again duct tape together another short-term extension and put off the hard choices..."

So why worry? Come on, we all know that's what will happen. They will postpone it all till the end of March, and then it will somehow disappear into oblivion, trussed up and body-bagged in red tape.


And I so very don't care.......

[Kathianne]

If the president is unwilling, unable to work with the House, sequestration will occur. That would be step 1 in 'world of hurt.' If somehow they 'kick the can' with no resolution, credit rating will again be downgraded, (this is the IL, NJ, CA model), increasing the costs of borrowing which will be increasing because of 'kicking the can.' That would be another Step 1 towards 'world of hurt.' See, it's sort of like those books we liked in jr. high, "Write your own adventure novel..."

[red states rule]

It didn't seem startling or intriguing to me --- did we read the same article? It just said that the whole point of the Fiscal Cliff is to postpone resolution of .........well, everything. All of the issues.

And that the gov. is sure to postpone it all again.

"...past practice suggests Washington will once again duct tape together another short-term extension and put off the hard choices..."

So why worry? Come on, we all know that's what will happen. They will postpone it all till the end of March, and then it will somehow disappear into oblivion, trussed up and body-bagged in red tape.


And I so very don't care.......

I suspect you will care when your government check bounces

[mundame]

If the president is unwilling, unable to work with the House, sequestration will occur. That would be step 1 in 'world of hurt.' If somehow they 'kick the can' with no resolution, credit rating will again be downgraded, (this is the IL, NJ, CA model), increasing the costs of borrowing which will be increasing because of 'kicking the can.' That would be another Step 1 towards 'world of hurt.' See, it's sort of like those books we liked in jr. high, "Write your own adventure novel..."


Might be sort of fun, though.....................................

Come on, I know a bunch of you want to see the country fall off the fiscal cliff. It would be fun!

I'm so bored. Let's do it.

Hey, it canNOT be worse than what is going on in Greece, after all.

Try the experiment! Use the fiscal cliff to pay down that huge, gargantuan, obscene Obama deficit. I'm for it.

[red states rule]

Might be sort of fun, though.....................................

Come on, I know a bunch of you want to see the country fall off the fiscal cliff. It would be fun!

I'm so bored. Let's do it.

Hey, it canNOT be worse than what is going on in Greece, after all.

Try the experiment! Use the fiscal cliff to pay down that huge, gargantuan, obscene Obama deficit. I'm for it.
We ARE GREECE. Our debt is over 100% of our GDP. Obama borrows FOUR BILLION DOLLARS per day - 7 days a week - to cover the annual deficit. There are not enough people and companies to tax to cover that amount. Obama could tax the top 2% at 100% and the money generated might cover the current rate of government spending for about a 2 weeks. You saw how the left and liberal media went nuts over the idea of cutting Sesame Street. How will they react when someone talks about cutting back on Social Security and Medicare?

[Kathianne]

We ARE GREECE. Our debt is over 100% of our GDP. Obama borrows FOUR BILLION DOLLARS per day - 7 days a week - to cover the annual deficit. There are not enough people and companies to tax to cover that amount. Obama could tax the top 2% at 100% and the money generated might cover the current rate of government spending for about a 2 weeks. You saw how the left and liberal media went nuts over the idea of cutting Sesame Street. How will they react when someone talks about cutting back on Social Security and Medicare?

And we have a problem Greece didn't face, the world altogether cannot bail out our level of debt.

As for Mundame's suggestion to play a game, with something she doesn't care about, it's already been done:

http://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2012/06/truly-realistic-look-sequestration

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/let-sequestration-happen/

http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/2012/09/23-sequestration-defense-singer

Pick your bias. None of them actually 'know' what the ramifications would be.

[red states rule]

And we have a problem Greece didn't face, the world altogether cannot bail out our level of debt.

As for Mundame's suggestion to play a game, with something she doesn't care about, it's already been done:

http://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2012/06/truly-realistic-look-sequestration

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/let-sequestration-happen/

http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/2012/09/23-sequestration-defense-singer

Pick your bias. None of them actually 'know' what the ramifications would be.
I do not who is worse Kat. Those who think they are entitled to other peoples money and live off the government. Or bimbos like Mundame who are "do not care" and sit back on their ass and do not vote out of bigotry. We are in deep trouble and the Obama financial House \of cards is about to fall on top of all of us. Everyone knows the entitlements are killing us, but those on the government handout list think they will be dead and gone when the Day of Reckoning comes so they ignore what needs to be done

[Kathianne]

More for her 'games.'

http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/insiders-congress-will-punt-sequestration-for-a-few-months-20121002

[mundame]

Whoa, so the libertarian and conservative think tanks are with me on this, let's try falling over the fiscal cliff, it might work out after all?

Hey, great minds think alike.....ouch. I sprained my arm patting myself on the back.


Yes, time to actually carry thru. The sequestration deal did have a point: to force the government to deal with the deficit. Unless we run over the fiscal cliff, the Obama government will do nothing ever but ADD to the deficit: you all know that.


So let's deal with it. In Europe, they are forcing Greece and Spain to deal with it despite 50% unemployment or worse among some demographic groups. If we could clean this awful deficit up on better terms, it might be worth a slowdown.

[mundame]

Wishful thinking, though.

They'll just kick the can down the street: that's what government does.

[Kathianne]

Whoa, so the libertarian and conservative think tanks are with me on this, let's try falling over the fiscal cliff, it might work out after all?

Hey, great minds think alike.....ouch. I sprained my arm patting myself on the back.


Yes, time to actually carry thru. The sequestration deal did have a point: to force the government to deal with the deficit. Unless we run over the fiscal cliff, the Obama government will do nothing ever but ADD to the deficit: you all know that.


So let's deal with it. In Europe, they are forcing Greece and Spain to deal with it despite 50% unemployment or worse among some demographic groups. If we could clean this awful deficit up on better terms, it might be worth a slowdown.

Since you seem to be so influential, go for it.

[Kathianne]

Wishful thinking, though.

They'll just kick the can down the street: that's what government does.

But you don't care, right?

[mundame]

Since you seem to be so influential, go for it.


Snark is not useful posting.

[mundame]

But you don't care, right?

Not useful posting.

[red states rule]

Not useful posting.
You did post how you did not care Lamedame. It is people like you that gave us 4 more years of Obama. Thanks alot

[Kathianne]

It didn't seem startling or intriguing to me --- did we read the same article? It just said that the whole point of the Fiscal Cliff is to postpone resolution of .........well, everything. All of the issues.

And that the gov. is sure to postpone it all again.

"...past practice suggests Washington will once again duct tape together another short-term extension and put off the hard choices..."

So why worry? Come on, we all know that's what will happen. They will postpone it all till the end of March, and then it will somehow disappear into oblivion, trussed up and body-bagged in red tape.


And I so very don't care.......


Not useful posting.

Make up your mind.

[red states rule]

Snark is not useful posting.
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/121107stocksRGB20121107110810.jpg

[Kathianne]

Snark is not useful posting.

However, useful to point out over inflated egos once in awhile. Obama could use some snark against him.

[red states rule]

Make up your mind.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kathianne again.

[tailfins]

Might be sort of fun, though.....................................

Come on, I know a bunch of you want to see the country fall off the fiscal cliff. It would be fun!

I'm so bored. Let's do it.

Hey, it canNOT be worse than what is going on in Greece, after all.

Try the experiment! Use the fiscal cliff to pay down that huge, gargantuan, obscene Obama deficit. I'm for it.

Before dismissing becoming like Greece, you should spend some time there. Getting to know what life is like under a bad government: it's worth learning how it affects the lives of ordinary people. The suffering is substantial. You shouldn't make light of it.

[red states rule]

Before dismissing becoming like Greece, you should spend some time there. Getting to know what life is like under a bad government: it's worth learning how it affects the lives of ordinary people. The suffering is substantial. You shouldn't make light of it.

We have had a Greece like government for the last 4 years. Like Abbey posted you do not have to take your annual vacation in Greece - you are now living in Greece.

[mundame]

Make up your mind.

I have made up my mind: I am very sure I am not your mother, so there is no need for you to feel you have to compete with me constantly.

Here's the deal: "When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew
up, I put away childish things."

It's time to move to the next level, Kathianne.

[red states rule]

I have made up my mind: I am very sure I am not your mother, so there is no need for you to feel you have to compete with me constantly.

Here's the deal: "When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew
up, I put away childish things."

It's time to move to the next level, Kathianne.

When did you grow up? You pout like a child, and have the normal tantrums when people call you on your lame logic and bigotry

[Kathianne]

I have made up my mind: I am very sure I am not your mother, so there is no need for you to feel you have to compete with me constantly.

Here's the deal: "When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew
up, I put away childish things."

It's time to move to the next level, Kathianne.

Fail.

[mundame]

Before dismissing becoming like Greece, you should spend some time there. Getting to know what life is like under a bad government: it's worth learning how it affects the lives of ordinary people. The suffering is substantial. You shouldn't make light of it.


Reread my post, if you would: I said anything that happens here canNOT be as bad as is going on in Greece.

I agree with you that it's a disaster there, and the state may well disintegrate.

I don't think we are in anything close to as parlous a situation as Greece is in. I could be wrong, of course.......

[red states rule]

I could be wrong, of course.......

Yes you are

[Kathianne]

Reread my post, if you would: I said anything that happens here canNOT be as bad as is going on in Greece.

I agree with you that it's a disaster there, and the state may well disintegrate.

I don't think we are in anything close to as parlous a situation as Greece is in. I could be wrong, of course.......

I don't need to reread your post or rethink your point. We are years down this road already and as I wrote earlier, unlike Greece, no one is going to be able to bail US out when the rolling boulder picks up steam:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704198004575310962247772540.html




OPINION (http://online.wsj.com/public/search?article-doc-type=%7BCommentary+%28U.S.%29%7D&HEADER_TEXT=commentary+%28u.s.)
June 18, 2010

<!-- ID: SB10001424052748704198004575310962247772540 --> <!-- TYPE: Commentary (U.S.) --> <!-- DISPLAY-NAME: Opinion --> <!-- PUBLICATION: The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition --> <!-- DATE: 2010-06-18 00:01 --> <!-- COPYRIGHT: Dow Jones & Company, Inc. --> <!-- ORIGINAL-ID: --> <!-- article start --> <!-- CODE=DJII-COMPANY SYMBOL=lehbro CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=mntdbt CODE=DJII-REGION SYMBOL=usa CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=e1201 CODE=DJII-REGION SYMBOL=greece CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=nedc CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=e12 CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=ecat CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=m12 CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=mcat CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=mgvdbt CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=ncat CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=nfact CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=nfce CODE=DJII-SUBJECT SYMBOL=nfcpex CODE=DJII-REGION SYMBOL=balkz CODE=DJII-REGION SYMBOL=eecz CODE=DJII-REGION SYMBOL=eurz CODE=DJII-REGION SYMBOL=medz CODE=DJII-REGION SYMBOL=namz CODE=SUBJECT SYMBOL=OPIN CODE=STATISTIC SYMBOL=PRMN --> U.S. Debt and the Greece AnalogyDon't be fooled by today's low interest rates. The government could very quickly discover the limits of its borrowing capacity.
By ALAN GREENSPAN (http://online.wsj.com/search/term.html?KEYWORDS=ALAN+GREENSPAN&bylinesearch=true)An urgency to rein in budget deficits seems to be gaining some traction among American lawmakers. If so, it is none too soon. Perceptions of a large U.S. borrowing capacity are misleading.
Despite the surge in federal debt to the public during the past 18 months—to $8.6 trillion from $5.5 trillion—inflation and long-term interest rates, the typical symptoms of fiscal excess, have remained remarkably subdued. This is regrettable, because it is fostering a sense of complacency that can have dire consequences.

...Beneath the calm, there are market signals that do not bode well for the future. For generations there had been a large buffer between the borrowing capacity of the U.S. government and the level of its debt to the public. But in the aftermath of the Lehman Brothers collapse, that gap began to narrow rapidly. Federal debt to the public rose to 59% of GDP by mid-June 2010 from 38% in September 2008. How much borrowing leeway at current interest rates remains for U.S. Treasury financing is highly uncertain.

The U.S. government can create dollars at will to meet any obligation, and it will doubtless continue to do so. (That would be QE1, 2, 3) U.S. Treasurys are thus free of credit risk. But they are not free of interest rate risk. If Treasury net debt issuance were to double overnight, for example, newly issued Treasury securities would continue free of credit risk, but the Treasury would have to pay much higher interest rates to market its newly issued securities....

[mundame]

I don't need to reread your post or rethink your point.


No indeed, I hope you won't! I was actually talking to tailfins, as my quoting his post suggests.

[Kathianne]

No indeed, I hope you won't! I was actually talking to tailfins, as my quoting his post suggests.

A reminder, no one is precluded from answering a post, whether or not directed at you. No, we are free to jump in wherever our interests take us. :thumb:

[tailfins]

We have had a Greece like government for the last 4 years. Like Abbey posted you do not have to take your annual vacation in Greece - you are now living in Greece.

If you can't afford Greece, you can visit Caracas if you have the nerve. Don't forget to buy your Bolivares Fuertes on the black market.

[red states rule]

Whoa, so the libertarian and conservative think tanks are with me on this, let's try falling over the fiscal cliff, it might work out after all?

Hey, great minds think alike.....ouch. I sprained my arm patting myself on the back.


Yes, time to actually carry thru. The sequestration deal did have a point: to force the government to deal with the deficit. Unless we run over the fiscal cliff, the Obama government will do nothing ever but ADD to the deficit: you all know that.


So let's deal with it. In Europe, they are forcing Greece and Spain to deal with it despite 50% unemployment or worse among some demographic groups. If we could clean this awful deficit up on better terms, it might be worth a slowdown.

The point is they are not going to deal with it. Thanks to people like you, Obama and Reid are still in power and thus Obama will continue to borrow FOUR BILLION DOLLARS per day - 7 days a week - to cover the annual deficit. There are not enough people and companies to tax to cover that amount. Obama could tax the top 2% at 100% and the money generated might cover the current rate of government spending for about a 2 weeks. You saw how the left and liberal media went nuts over the idea of cutting Sesame Street. How will they react when someone talks about cutting back on Social Security and Medicare? So thanks again Mundame I do hope you are happy now

[mundame]

If you can't afford Greece, you can visit Caracas if you have the nerve. Don't forget to buy your Bolivares Fuertes on the black market.


Good God, that really would take nerve. ;)

[red states rule]

If you can't afford Greece, you can visit Caracas if you have the nerve. Don't forget to buy your Bolivares Fuertes on the black market.
I was planning on a cruise to the Caribbean later next year, but my GF and I both said we better hold onto the money. The way the layoffs are piling up, I think we made the right call