war on "terror" weapons

[revelarts]

Directed energy weapons? microwave weapons? personal targeting? Satellite kinetic weapons, robots... secret weapons...
with our money.
As along as we trust the gov't it's all ok of course.


What Is Woodward’s ‘Secret Weapon’ in Iraq?

By Sharon Weinberger (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/author/sharon-weinberger/)
September 9, 2008 |
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.com%2Fdangerroom%2F2008 %2F09%2Fwhats-the-milit%2F&ei=qt-XUMbsE6zU0gG4q4GQAg&usg=AFQjCNGte1vg0zSDor0cspPYf-kGmmMndA&cad=rja


Everyone’s buzzing about the "sophisticated and lethal special operations program" that Bob Woodward alluded to in his recent 60 Minutes interview (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/60minutes/printable4415771.shtml). An important question is: what in the heck was Woodward talking about? Secret death rays? The Voice of God weapon (http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/12/the-voice-of-go.html)? It’s enough to make me break from my current coffee shop lounging existence (http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/farewell-to-arm.html) to chime in with some thoughts on the subject. First, let’s review what Woodward said in the interview:

"This is very sensitive and very top secret, but there are secret operational capabilities that have been developed by the military to locate, target and kill leaders of al-Qaida in Iraq, insurgent leaders, renegade militia leaders. That is one of the true breakthroughs," Woodward told Pelley.
"But what are we talking about here? It’s some kind of surveillance? Some kind of targeted way of taking out just the people that you’re looking for?" Pelley asked.
"I’d love to go through the details, but I’m not going to," Woodward replied…. "If you were an al-Qaida leader … and you knew about what they were able to do, you’d get your ass outta town."

I’m going to make a wager about what I think Woodward is talking about, and I’ll be curious to see what Danger Room readers have to say. I believe he is talking about the much ballyhooed (in defense geek circles) "Tagging, Tracking and Locating" program; here’s (http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/files/Richardson_Continuous.pdf) a briefing on it from Special Operations Command. These are newfangled technologies designed to track people from long distances, without the targeted people realizing they are being tracked. That can theoretically include thermal signatures, or some sort of "taggant" placed on a person. Think Will Smith in Enemy of the State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_%28film%29). Well, not so many cameras, maybe.
Why do I think this is the technology Woodward is referring to? Well, first, because it pretty much fits the bill, in terms of the type of capability he appears to be talking about. It has involvement from a number of players, including the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency and Special Operations Command. Also, the Defense Science Board has talked about this capability in similar terms, saying "the global war on terrorism cannot be won without a ‘Manhattan Project’-like TTL [tagging, tracking, and locating] program."
Do I, however, think that there really has been some great big breakthrough, that, in Woodward’s words, is the equivalent of the "advent of the tank and the airplane?" Or, in the case of the Manhattan Project comparison, the atomic bomb? I don’t know what Woodward has been presented with, or what he knows of these capabilities, but I’m not convinced it’s as dramatic a technological breakthrough as he seems to suggest. That said, I suppose it could be, but it looks like we’ll have to wait to see more details.



interesting old news

[jimnyc]

I remember one that was talked about but forget the name. Some sort of bomb that takes out all the electronics. I'd like to see someone drop a few hundred of them in Iran and Afghanistan. Well, Afghanistan may be a waste as so much of that craphole is rock. Another one was a monstrous bomb that would basically explode just prior to hitting the ground and suck the air/life out of a huge area, and then of course a short tad later it would envelope the place in ruins. The "MOAB" was new to me in the past decade, gotta give high grades to that sucker! The CBU97 is another monster, like 1000lbs, listen to the description of this beauty:


The CBU-97 is a 1,000 pound cluster bomb that is used by the U.S. Air Force. The weapon is non-guided and freefalls from military aircraft. Each bomb contains 40 "skeets." These are sensor fused projectiles shaped like hockey pucks. Each skeet uses infrared lasers and sensors to scan an area of about 1,500 feet for targets such as tanks, bunkers and armored personnel carriers. Once a target is detected, the skeet attaches to it and explodes into molten hot copper. If no target is detected, the skeets self-destruct 50 feet above the ground.

And now, brace yourself, the coolest weapon on Earth!! The MX-Peacemaker, which I would really like to see in action! I can't tell if this thing is a weapon or a new shuttle for NASA!! :laugh2: :salute:


The Peacekeeper missile is America's newest intercontinental ballistic missile. With the end of the Cold War, the US has begun to revise its strategic policy, and has agreed to eliminate the multiple re-entry vehicle Peacekeeper ICBMs by the year 2003 as part of the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty II. The Peacekeeper (designated LGM-118A) is a four-stage intercontinental ballistic missile capable of carrying up to ten independently-targetable reentry vehicles with greater accuracy than any other ballistic missile. Its design combines advanced technology in fuels, guidance, nozzle design, and motor construction with protection against the hostile nuclear environment associated with land-based systems. The Peacekeeper is much larger than Minuteman, over 70 feet long and weighing 198,000 pounds. It is a four stage missile like the Minuteman III, with the first three stages being solid propellant and the fourth stage bu hypergolicly fueled with hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide. Although capable of carrying eleven Mark 21 RVs, treaty limits mandated deploying the Peacekeeper with only ten RVs. The entire missile is encased in a canister in the silo to protect it against damage and to permit "cold launch". The Minuteman II and III ignite their first stage engines while in the LF, but the Peacekeeper is ejected by pressurized gas some fifty feet into the air before first stage ignition.

The Peacekeeper is a three-stage rocket ICBM system consisting of three major sections: the boost system, the post-boost vehicle system and the re-entry system.

The boost system consists of three rocket stages that launch the missile into space. These rocket stages are mounted atop one another and fire successively. Three of the four stages exhausted their solid propellants through a single adjustable nozzle which guided the missile along its flight path. Motorcases made of kevlar epoxy material held the solid propellants. The fourth stage post-boost vehicle employed a liquid bi- propellant rocket propulsion system to provide velocity and attitude correction for missile guidance. The post-boost vehicle also employed a self-contained inertial navigation system that allowed the missile to operate independent of ground reference or commands during flight.

The 28-foot first-stage solid-fuel rocket motor weighed approximately 108,000 pounds and is capable of boosting the missile to about 75,000 feet. The 18-foot long second-stage motor propelled the missile to an altitude of about 190,000 feet and weighed 60,000 pounds. The rocket motor in the eight-foot third stage weighed 17,000 pounds and supplied the thrust to boost the missile to about 700,000 feet. The 2,300 pound post-boost fourth stage vehicle was designed to maneuver the missile into position for the multiple reentry vehicles to deploy in their respective ballistic trajectories.

Following the burnout and separation of the boost system's third rocket stage, the post-boost vehicle system, in space, maneuvers the missile as its re-entry vehicles are deployed in sequence.

The post-boost vehicle system is made up of a maneuvering rocket, and a guidance and control system. The vehicle rides atop the boost system, weighs about 3,000 pounds (1,363 kilograms) and is 4 feet (1.21 meters) long.

The top section of the Peacekeeper is the re-entry system. It consists of the deployment module, up to 10 cone-shaped re-entry vehicles and a protective shroud. The shroud protects the re-entry vehicles during ascent. It is topped with a nose cap, containing a rocket motor to separate it from the deployment module.

The deployment module provides structural support for the re-entry vehicles and carries the electronics needed to activate and deploy them. The vehicles are covered with material to protect them during re-entry through the atmosphere to their targets and are mechanically attached to the deployment module. The attachments are unlatched by gas pressure from an explosive cartridge broken by small, exploding bolts, which free the re-entry vehicles, allowing them to separate from the deployment module with minimum disturbance. Each deployed re-entry vehicle follows a ballistic path to its target.

The Peacekeeper was the first U.S. ICBM to use cold launch technology. The missile was placed inside a canister and loaded into the launch facility. When launched, high-pressure steam ejected the canister from the launch silo to an altitude of 150 to 300 feet, and once the missile has cleared the silo, the first stage ignited and sent the missile on its course. This technique allowed SAC to launch the Peacekeeper from Minuteman silos despite the fact that the Peacekeeper was three times larger than the Minuteman III.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/icbm/lgm-118.htm

[jimnyc]

Oh, and for the record, let me state this unequivocally: The USA will be the strongest military in the world, and is the strongest - because we have the bravest and most highly trained men and women in combat :salute:

[aboutime]

Oh, and for the record, let me state this unequivocally: The USA will be the strongest military in the world, and is the strongest - because we have the bravest and most highly trained men and women in combat :salute:



jimnyc: Totally agree with you there. And, since tomorrow is Election...or DESelection day. We will hopefully get rid of the most dangerous TERROR weapon. Barrack H. Obama.

[jafar00]

The CBU97 is another monster, like 1000lbs, listen to the description of this beauty

The use of cluster munitions is a violation of international law. Unexploded bomblets can blow children up for years after the war (invasion) is over. Nobody in their right mind could accept the use of such a weapon anywhere near where civilians may be.

[aboutime]

The use of cluster munitions is a violation of international law. Unexploded bomblets can blow children up for years after the war (invasion) is over. Nobody in their right mind could accept the use of such a weapon anywhere near where civilians may be.



JAFAR. Terrorists are not identified as Civlians. Military members have what they call ROE's, or Rules of Engagement. And those cluster munitions you call violations of International law...just seem to be Violations when other nations are fighting Terrorists.
But somehow. According to your standards. If Terrorists use them. They are NOT violating International Laws.

Would you like to explain that DOUBLE STANDARD you failed to mention?

[Gaffer]

They have microwave weapons, sound weapons, seeker weapons that shoot around corners. And other stuff that hasn't been publicized. The big bombs have been around for a long time and can only be delivered in areas where there is no anti-air capabilities. There's a whole ton of new stuff that no one knows about yet.

[revelarts]

JAFAR. Terrorists are not identified as Civlians. Military members have what they call ROE's, or Rules of Engagement. And those cluster munitions you call violations of International law...just seem to be Violations when other nations are fighting Terrorists.
But somehow. According to your standards. If Terrorists use them. They are NOT violating International Laws.

Would you like to explain that DOUBLE STANDARD you failed to mention?

uh that's why we call them terrorist.
If we do do the same then that would makes us... terrorist probably, maybe state terrorist to be technical about it maybe right?

[jafar00]

JAFAR. Terrorists are not identified as Civlians. Military members have what they call ROE's, or Rules of Engagement. And those cluster munitions you call violations of International law...just seem to be Violations when other nations are fighting Terrorists.
But somehow. According to your standards. If Terrorists use them. They are NOT violating International Laws.

Would you like to explain that DOUBLE STANDARD you failed to mention?

This is what your use of cluster munitions does when a child finds an unexploded one and plays with it. At least you can reason with or trick a terrorist out of killing you. Cluster munitions are not so easily fooled. I don't support terrorists at all and the worse kind is one who makes excuses like claiming the terrorists are hiding among them for dropping these things on civilians.

http://www.rawa.org/child1.jpg

[jimnyc]

The use of cluster munitions is a violation of international law. Unexploded bomblets can blow children up for years after the war (invasion) is over. Nobody in their right mind could accept the use of such a weapon anywhere near where civilians may be.

This weapon is not against the law:


The 40 Skeets scan an area of 1,500 feet (460 m) by 500 feet (150 m) using infrared and laser sensors, seeking targets by pattern-matching. When a Skeet finds a target it fires an explosively-formed penetrator to destroy it. If a Skeet fails to find a target, it self-destructs 50 feet (15 m) above the ground; if this fails, a back-up timer disables the Skeet. These features are intended to avoid later civilian casualties from unexploded munitions, and result in an unexploded-ordnance rate of less than 1%.

We even sold some of these suckers to India. Do the background search if you like, but I assure you, this particular designed bomb is not against international law.

[jafar00]

This weapon is not against the law:


http://www.icrc.org/eng/war-and-law/weapons/cluster-munitions/index.jsp

[fj1200]

http://www.icrc.org/eng/war-and-law/weapons/cluster-munitions/index.jsp

The US is not a party to the convention.


The U.S. has acknowledged humanitarian concerns about the use of cluster munitions, but insisted that the proper venue for a discussion of cluster munitions was the forum attached to the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons), which includes all major military powers.[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions#cite_note-20) The U.S. has further stated that the development and introduction of "smart" cluster munitions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition), where each submunition contains its own targeting and guidance system as well as an auto-self-destruct mechanism, means that the problematic munitions are being moved away from in any case.
...
As one of the countries that did not ratify the treaty, the United States said that cluster bombs are a legal form of weapon, and that they had a "clear military utility in combat." It also said that compared to other types of weapons, cluster bombs are less harmful to civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions

[jimnyc]

http://www.icrc.org/eng/war-and-law/weapons/cluster-munitions/index.jsp


The US is not a party to the convention.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions

And even if so, this weapon still doesn't qualify. The US went to great lengths to ensure this didn't fit the profile of the former weapons that left remnants behind that killed people. Less than 1% is better than anything than a regular gun.

[jafar00]

And even if so, this weapon still doesn't qualify. The US went to great lengths to ensure this didn't fit the profile of the former weapons that left remnants behind that killed people. Less than 1% is better than anything than a regular gun.

Even if the failure rate is less than 1%, how do you know that rate doesn't climb after a few years of circuit degradation. The explosive component is still there. Despite your best intentions of trying kill rogue gangs of terrorists armed with small arms using weapons of mass destruction, cluster bomb use in civilian areas is like laying an unmarked minefield that can main and kill for years after the war is over. There is simply no humanitarian spin that can change the fact that some of the weapons your country uses (like chemical weapons and Uranium) leave an ugly legacy behind them.

[jimnyc]

Even if the failure rate is less than 1%, how do you know that rate doesn't climb after a few years of circuit degradation. The explosive component is still there. Despite your best intentions of trying kill rogue gangs of terrorists armed with small arms using weapons of mass destruction, cluster bomb use in civilian areas is like laying an unmarked minefield that can main and kill for years after the war is over. There is simply no humanitarian spin that can change the fact that some of the weapons your country uses (like chemical weapons and Uranium) leave an ugly legacy behind them.

Trying to create military weapons that minimize the death of innocents, and bringing one that has less than a 1% failure rate, is still better than YOUR countries who cut off heads, hang people in the streets, beat their women as part of a daily practice, kill people who try to leave the faith, beat people for petty offenses...

I'll take our legacy over what Islam is infamous for.

[Gaffer]

Jafar do you actually believe the countries that signed that treaty don't use cluster bombs, mines, booby traps and IED's? The US at least attempts to prevent innocent casualties. Very few others do that or even care. Show me the russians, chinese or iranians making humanitarian efforts to prevent civilian casualties. Other than a few european countries you won't find it.

[SassyLady]

Oh, and for the record, let me state this unequivocally: The USA will be the strongest military in the world, and is the strongest - because we have the bravest and most highly trained men and women in combat :salute:

And, the largest contingent of hunters ... who could be activated if needed.

[Drummond]

I remember one that was talked about but forget the name. Some sort of bomb that takes out all the electronics. I'd like to see someone drop a few hundred of them in Iran and Afghanistan. Well, Afghanistan may be a waste as so much of that craphole is rock. Another one was a monstrous bomb that would basically explode just prior to hitting the ground and suck the air/life out of a huge area, and then of course a short tad later it would envelope the place in ruins. The "MOAB" was new to me in the past decade, gotta give high grades to that sucker! The CBU97 is another monster, like 1000lbs, listen to the description of this beauty:



And now, brace yourself, the coolest weapon on Earth!! The MX-Peacemaker, which I would really like to see in action! I can't tell if this thing is a weapon or a new shuttle for NASA!! :laugh2: :salute:



http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/icbm/lgm-118.htm

Electro-magnetic pulse (EMP) ?

There was another one .. a neutron bomb. That one is exploded at high altitude, it emits an intense burst of radiation that kills those below it within a second or 2 .. and where the radiation disperses after a few hours, allowing ground forces to enter the formerly irradiated area with only minimal exposure to lingering radioactive fallout. The big advantage of a neutron bomb is that buildings, infrastructure, are preserved. A great weapon if you have a use for enemy equipment or bases.

[Drummond]

The use of cluster munitions is a violation of international law. Unexploded bomblets can blow children up for years after the war (invasion) is over. Nobody in their right mind could accept the use of such a weapon anywhere near where civilians may be.

... and nobody in their right mind, Jafar, can adopt anything else other than zero tolerance to terrorism, either !

I note your 'moral indignation' to weaponry such as cluster bombs. Well ... why is it, Jafar, that you don't prioritise your moral objections a little, and object to a religion/faith that breeds so much terrorism ?

I understand - correct me if I'm wrong - that cluster bombs were used extensively in Afghanistan ? As a means to be effective against terrorist training camps and bases ? Do you object to their usage against those terrorists, Jafar ?

Because I can only say, Jafar, that I DO NOT. Those trash earned all they got. And if you want to say that, regardless, some form of less effective weaponry should've been used because of (a) the 'inhumanity' of cluster bombs, or (b) because not all of them detonated immediately and became a longer term threat .. well, I blame the Taliban, and Al Qaeda, for NECESSITATING their use, AND creating any subsequent mess.

I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing arguments which try and heap blame-game tactics upon those FIGHTING THE EVILS OF THIS WORLD. What about all the innocents who'd die if munitions effectiveness against such vermin was so diminished as to let terrorists live to fight - and bomb - another day, AVOIDABLY ??

[jafar00]

Trying to create military weapons that minimize the death of innocents, and bringing one that has less than a 1% failure rate, is still better than YOUR countries who cut off heads, hang people in the streets,

Iran does hang people publicly. I agree with you there.


beat their women as part of a daily practice

Do you really believe that Muslims beat their wives as a daily practice?

btw, Wife Beating is common in the USA

http://belmontshore.patch.com/articles/ex-long-beach-officer-gets-prison-for-wife-torture
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20121025/news/310259997/port-angeles-man-gets-20-years-for-domestic-violence-assault
http://onlineathens.com/blotter/2012-10-29/athens-man-charged-beating-wife
http://www2.hernandotoday.com/news/hernando-news/2012/oct/19/brooksville-man-accused-of-attacking-wife-father-ar-538260/
http://www.ocregister.com/news/jarosik-375305-woman-girlfriend.html


kill people who try to leave the faith

There is no prescribed worldly punishment for converting away from Islam. Bad people make bad laws, but Islam is not guilty on that front. I have posted the scripture to support that before.

btw, Christians kill those who convert to Islam

http://tribune.com.pk/story/221108/the-ex-files-former-wife-killed-for-converting-to-islam/

Thousands marched in Alexandria from ‘AlQa’id Ibrahim’ mosque, passing by the Alexandria Library all the way to the Army’s Eastern Command Headquarters where they delivered a list of 70 names of women who have declared their conversion to Islam and whose lives are now in danger. They condemned the murder of Salwa Atta and demanded the release of Kamilia Shihata, who was kidnapped after her conversion to Islam and has not been seen since. (http://egyptiansdefiant.blogspot.com.au/2011/04/condemning-christian-terrorism.html)

See? There are bad people in all sorts of places.


beat people for petty offenses...

Don't make me google search beatings in the USA.


Jafar do you actually believe the countries that signed that treaty don't use cluster bombs, mines, booby traps and IED's? The US at least attempts to prevent innocent casualties. Very few others do that or even care. Show me the russians, chinese or iranians making humanitarian efforts to prevent civilian casualties. Other than a few european countries you won't find it.

As far as I can tell, Russia, China and Iran have not invaded another country for quite a few years. Not good examples.


I note your 'moral indignation' to weaponry such as cluster bombs. Well ... why is it, Jafar, that you don't prioritise your moral objections a little, and object to a religion/faith that breeds so much terrorism ?

Can you enlighten me a little by letting me know which part of my faith breeds terrorism?


I understand - correct me if I'm wrong - that cluster bombs were used extensively in Afghanistan ? As a means to be effective against terrorist training camps and bases ? Do you object to their usage against those terrorists, Jafar ?

Was it necessary to use cluster bombs when conventional weapons would do? And was it necessary to use them in close proximity to civilian areas? Why use unconventional weaponry against an enemy that is comparatively lightly armed with whatever outdated weapons they can scrounge?

[revelarts]

Jafar do you actually believe the countries that signed that treaty don't use cluster bombs, mines, booby traps and IED's? The US at least attempts to prevent innocent casualties. Very few others do that or even care. Show me the russians, chinese or iranians making humanitarian efforts to prevent civilian casualties. Other than a few european countries you won't find it.

here we go again with the,
Yes i beat my wife but i don't have nails in my baseball bat like my neighbor does
defense.

It's interesting to me how we like to claim we are so superior to the rest of the world the "good guys" but when shown we act just as dirty we try to find some justification rather than just saying
Hey, you know that IS wrong, we should just stop it. Not because other countries do worse but because we've got a higher standard .

[jafar00]

here we go again with the,
Yes i beat my wife but i don't have nails in my baseball bat like my neighbor does
defense.

It's interesting to me how we like to claim we are so superior to the rest of the world the "good guys" but when shown we act just as dirty we try to find some justification rather than just saying
Hey, you know that IS wrong, we should just stop it. Not because other countries do worse but because we've got a higher standard .

Well, I don't beat my wife, nor do I know anyone who has done so. My religion doesn't allow it despite what some bad people do who identify as Muslim. It would be a direct violation of a decree from Allah and a sin.

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good (4:19)

Also, only a complete douche would beat his wife for any reason...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, I don't beat my wife, nor do I know anyone who has done so. My religion doesn't allow it despite what some bad people do who identify as Muslim. It would be a direct violation of a decree from Allah and a sin.

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good (4:19)

Also, only a complete douche would beat his wife for any reason...

Finally, we agree...-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Jafar, yes, women get abused in the US and other shitty things - but we prosecute and hold those people accountable, UNLIKE ISLAM. The savagery and barbaric ways that are common practice in so much of Islam simply don't happen in the USA like they do in Islamic crapholes. You can keep on trying to place the US on some sort of equal plane with Islamic countries, but you'll never come close. Hell, NO countries are like that other than predominantly Muslim countries, these are just simple facts. Every country will have their share of scum, but some countries TRY to get rid of these people from society and jail them and hold them accountable in some manner, not hold them up as heroes and emulate them and cheer them on.

Why do Islamic countries teach very young children to hate jews? Why do Islamic kids in Australia talk about jihad and Muslim global domination? Why are these type of things so prevalent, amongst CHILDREN? Poor kids never had a chance.

[jimnyc]

Also, only a complete douche would beat his wife for any reason...

You just eliminated 50-85% of Egypt, since they FREELY ADMIT IT! And I can't imagine how many other millions. And yes, before you say it, happens in the US too, and we have JAILS full to prove it. In Islamic countries it's TAUGHT to give a little beating here and there to keep the woman in line.

[jafar00]

Jafar, yes, women get abused in the US and other shitty things - but we prosecute and hold those people accountable, UNLIKE ISLAM. The savagery and barbaric ways that are common practice in so much of Islam simply don't happen in the USA like they do in Islamic crapholes. You can keep on trying to place the US on some sort of equal plane with Islamic countries, but you'll never come close. Hell, NO countries are like that other than predominantly Muslim countries, these are just simple facts. Every country will have their share of scum, but some countries TRY to get rid of these people from society and jail them and hold them accountable in some manner, not hold them up as heroes and emulate them and cheer them on.

Why do Islamic countries teach very young children to hate jews? Why do Islamic kids in Australia talk about jihad and Muslim global domination? Why are these type of things so prevalent, amongst CHILDREN? Poor kids never had a chance.

I guess people who do bad things are never prosecuted in Islamic countries? They aren't all savages you know.


Egyptian breaks wife’s arm for over spending

Kuwait: An Egyptian man was arrested for breaking his wife’s arm after an altercation over her spending habits. Khaitan police station officers were first approached by the Egyptian woman, who provided a medical report which confirmed a broken right arm. She explained that her husband assaulted her when she spent eight thousand Egyptian pounds on personal items, instead of handing the money to her mother-in-law, as her husband instructed her to. The man admitted to beating his wife, but added that he did not mean to break her arm.
http://news.kuwaittimes.net/2012/09/02/gyptian-breaks-wifes-arm-for-over-spending/


You just eliminated 50-85% of Egypt, since they FREELY ADMIT IT! And I can't imagine how many other millions. And yes, before you say it, happens in the US too, and we have JAILS full to prove it. In Islamic countries it's TAUGHT to give a little beating here and there to keep the woman in line.

Which part of Egypt are you talking about? I know quite a few Egyptians having lived there for 3 years and I have an Egyptian wife. I know for a fact that if any of them beat their wives, they would in turn get a beating from their and her families. And in my case if I did it, I would also have a bounty placed on my head by some of the family in Upper Egypt who are a bit hot blooded.

[jimnyc]

I guess people who do bad things are never prosecuted in Islamic countries? They aren't all savages you know.


http://news.kuwaittimes.net/2012/09/02/gyptian-breaks-wifes-arm-for-over-spending/



Which part of Egypt are you talking about? I know quite a few Egyptians having lived there for 3 years and I have an Egyptian wife. I know for a fact that if any of them beat their wives, they would in turn get a beating from their and her families. And in my case if I did it, I would also have a bounty placed on my head by some of the family in Upper Egypt who are a bit hot blooded.

Egypt as a whole, I have posted many various independent investigations on here, from the Red Cross and humanitarian agencies. 80+% of women in Egypt admit to being beaten and about 50% of men admit to beating them.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?30308-Colonel-Douglas-Burpee-23-Years-Of-Military-Service-A-Muslim&p=457464#post457464
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?35786-Military-officer-killed&p=562680#post562680
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/2010/12/101227_egyptwomenabuse.shtml
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2010/domesticviolence-egypt.aspx

[jimnyc]

According to a report by the Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights, 72% of married women and 94% of girls say they are regularly subject to such abuse.

That's an awful lot of husbands beating their women.

[jafar00]

That's an awful lot of husbands beating their women.

Every 9 seconds in the US a woman is assaulted or beaten.
http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/domestic-violence-statistics/

Sexual Assault is pretty bad too.
http://www.rainn.org/images/get-information/Statistics/sa-statistics-2012.jpg

The kids aren't immune to sexual assault either.


Studies by David Finkelhor (http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/researchers/finkelhor-david.html), Director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center (http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/about/index.html), show that:


1 in 5 girls and 1 in 20 boys is a victim of child sexual abuse;
Self-report studies show that 20% of adult females and 5-10% of adult males recall a childhood sexual assault or sexual abuse incident;
During a one-year period in the U.S., 16% of youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;
Over the course of their lifetime, 28% of U.S. youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;
Children are most vulnerable to CSA between the ages of 7 and 13.


http://www.victimsofcrime.org/news-center/reporter-resources/child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

We can play statistics all day long can't we?

[jimnyc]

We can play statistics all day long can't we?

We sure can, but only ONE side acknowledges them and only ONE side goes after and prosecutes those who commit these acts. And the US sure as shit doesn't have 90% of wives being beat! Why do you refuse to admit about the shitload of scum in Islam? Why won't you acknowledge them and why do you claim every single person who does something evil in Islam to not be a true Muslim? You're full of excuses and denials, and when you run thin on those things you simply avoid answering or change the subject. But the truth doesn't disappear, Jafar, it simply doesn't. You ask about Egypt, I give you the answer, you deflect away from the question you asked rather than acknowledge it. Why is that? Embarrassed of Islam in this case? I would be.

Bottom line, Jafar, we DO acknowledge the USA has issues and the citizens and authorities do our very best to ensure filth get caught, prosecuted and jailed. In most Islamic countries, the women don't have a chance in hell but to take whatever comes their way. Deny, deny, deny all you like, it won't change a thing. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Finally, we agree...-Tyr

^^^^^ I agree with him and he doesnt even have the common courtesy of acknowledging it. I am starting to think he bears a grudge for my posting too much truth about Islam here.-Tyr

[jafar00]

We sure can, but only ONE side acknowledges them and only ONE side goes after and prosecutes those who commit these acts. And the US sure as shit doesn't have 90% of wives being beat! Why do you refuse to admit about the shitload of scum in Islam? Why won't you acknowledge them and why do you claim every single person who does something evil in Islam to not be a true Muslim? You're full of excuses and denials, and when you run thin on those things you simply avoid answering or change the subject. But the truth doesn't disappear, Jafar, it simply doesn't. You ask about Egypt, I give you the answer, you deflect away from the question you asked rather than acknowledge it. Why is that? Embarrassed of Islam in this case? I would be.

Bottom line, Jafar, we DO acknowledge the USA has issues and the citizens and authorities do our very best to ensure filth get caught, prosecuted and jailed. In most Islamic countries, the women don't have a chance in hell but to take whatever comes their way. Deny, deny, deny all you like, it won't change a thing. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

Ok. So only the USA has a system of law and prosecutes criminals and the rest of the world is some kind of post apocalyptic badlands where the bad guys can do whatever the hell they like?

[jafar00]

^^^^^ I agree with him and he doesnt even have the common courtesy of acknowledging it. I am starting to think he bears a grudge for my posting too much truth about Islam here.-Tyr

I guess the shock was too much and I didn't know what to say :D

[jimnyc]

Ok. So only the USA has a system of law and prosecutes criminals and the rest of the world is some kind of post apocalyptic badlands where the bad guys can do whatever the hell they like?

Infinitely times better than most Islamic countries. If men in Egypt, which we were discussing, were jailed and prosecuted for abusing their wives - seems as if almost all males would either be in prison or convicted of domestic abuse. We both know that's not the case though.

[jafar00]

Infinitely times better than most Islamic countries. If men in Egypt, which we were discussing, were jailed and prosecuted for abusing their wives - seems as if almost all males would either be in prison or convicted of domestic abuse. We both know that's not the case though.

I guess I only know the good ones then ;)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I guess the shock was too much and I didn't know what to say :D

I always post my agreement without regard to the identity of the person I am agreeing with. Friend or foe doesnt matter to me if I agree I say so.-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I guess I only know the good ones then ;)


Pull the blinders off and see the others that the rest of the world see and suffer from. That is if you ever dare..-Tyr